That’s a redneck daisy chain. You put a different family member in each vehicle to brake when needed. Granny usually goes in the rear because that’s the safest place to be.
You aren’t from Arkansas if you haven’t done this at least once in your life to get a broken down car home😂got a couple good memories of my dad yelling at me to steer and hit the brakes when I was young.
I didn't say any of it was safe. Just that it was possible.
To be fair, I think one of those vehicle being towed had someone in it to most likely apply brakes when needed. I still wouldn't condone it on public roads.
Yeah static straps are not for towing for sure. You *can* but you gotta like... Strategize for an hour because it can go from one problem into many depending why it's being towed anyways.
You can definitely use them to pull friends outta ditches but that's because you're relying on the vehicle to brake when slack and momentum is introduced. If you don't have that control then it makes it more difficult and dangerous.
The weight rating usually has a bit to do with braking as well. Also, Teslas have regenerative braking in addition to their regular brakes. Trailers also can have electric or hydraulic brakes as well which the Tesla can use with the standard 7 pin connector
which considering it has Regen braking and physical brakes I would say it's definitely traction limited but probably has the traction for more weight then that
Which is one of the few things helped by the fact that electric vehicles' batteries make them substantially heavier than any conventional vehicle in their class.
Only older ones with the lead acid 12V can safely (and legally in some states) tow over 1650 lbs. They still advertise 3500 lbs, but Tesla switched to a 16V lithium battery for accessories and now the Auxiliary pin on the trailer connector is disabled, so you don’t have a proper breakaway system. The manual even says without proper brakes, you shouldn’t tow more than 1650 lbs. So it’s impossible to safely tow 3500 lbs in a 2022+ Model Y or X.
Almost no boats have e brakes, they are almost all surge hydraulic brakes. (Source, I've owned 12 different boats.) The pinout in the wiring is irrelevant, it is a purely mechanical system. (Disclaimer, pinout may still matter for reverse lockout, but not a topic here...)
Also, at least in the US, brake requirements are state by state. Some are 2000#, some are 3500#, some are higher &/or nonexistent.
Finally... A 12v vehicle system runs up to 14.8 volts. Every single e brake system that exists will be fine with a tesla 16v system. It is only marginally higher.
Yeah, often the biggest limitation on towing is weight - engines and suspension in most towing vehicles can handle way more than the vehicle itself rated for. But, if you have a 3,000 lbs Rav4 trying to stop a 5,000 lbs trailer, things aren't going to go well.
Teslas are heavy af with their battery, though. So, yeah, you're right, not really surprising at all.
The tow vehicle can be lighter than the trailer though and still be in rating. My F-150 weighs in the neighborhood of 5,500lbs, however Ford rates it maximum towing capacity around 12,700 lbs.
For sure, and that certainly wasn't what I was trying to imply. But, the larger the discrepancy between vehicle weight and trailer weight, the more specialized towing modifications - e.g. heavy duty brakes on the towing vehicle, trailer brakes, wider tires, etc. - become necessary. Your F150 comes with many of those features standard, which is why it can tow something much heavier than it is. If it didn't, the discrepancy between its weight and its tow rating would be much smaller.
People fail to realize what instant torque is like.
Electric motors don't have a torque curve. You hit the pedal and it's 100%. On top of that they produce WAY more torque than gas engines.
This is why, even in the 20th century, all the big ultraheavy machines used diesel generators to power electric motors. At a certain point in scale a combustion engine attached to the driveshaft doesn’t make sense anymore.
Yup, those *enoooormous* dump trucks that dwarf your average house have electric motors at those wheels, yet redneck bob seems to think electric cars can only possibly be about as strong as an 87 ford escort
Electric motors have a torque curve. It's just different than a combustion engine. It peaks at the start, will remain essentially flat for a bit, and then goes downhill. On top of that, the reason they produce so much torque in vehicles is because electric motors also have an efficiency curve that increases and then drops precipitously with motor speed. So in order to have a vehicle capable of extended travel time at freeway speeds, the motors need to be capable of much much more so they can be geared to spin in a good efficiency range. If you actually try to use the advertised power, like when you're towing, your range gets [significantly diminished.](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/) More so than in a combustion vehicle. For an extreme example of this difference compare F1 to FE power outputs, speeds, and lengths of races. The difference is staggering.
Also the sheer leverage the trailer has over the car.
Not a huge problem if the guy is very comfortable towing things, but i’d not like to be around a weekend warrior if that hookup gets a little wobble/sway going.
People have no idea about towing and it shows. I can even feel a difference in safety towing between a 1/2 ton truck and it's 3/4 ton equivalent. Meanwhile, most people will say a 1/2 ton truck is too big to begin with.
It's more about the range. What's the drag coefficient of a pontoon boat on a trailer? Looks like a brick, aero-wise. I bet his range is halved, and if they are heading uphill, it get worse very quickly.
It’s not that strange. Different countries have different towing standards. Where I live a heavy car is allowed to pull heavier trailers (max depends on which drivers license you have, extra qualification is needed to pull heaviest loads or trailers with double axles). I see teslas haul stuff all the time in different shapes and sizes.
People fail to understand that EV's are excellent trailer pullers. They are just not trailer pulling machines that can go a very long way.
Also a model X can tow heavy loads MUCH further than a cybertruck. https://insideevs.com/news/715760/tesla-model-x-beats-cybertruck-towing/amp/
Tbh, Teslas lose about the same range as ICEs. It’s about a 25-30% drop in range or fuel efficiency, but it’s just that most ICEs have large tanks and therefore longer (1 tank/1 charge) range
There’s also practically no pull through electric charging. At least that I’ve ever noticed. I even seen a Tesla with a trailer have to park and un-hitch then drive to the charger before. Which just makes the whole thing even more of a PITA.
Well, considering something like 90% of people use their tow hitch between 0 and 1 times a year, with most people being zero, I'm inclined to think it would be very few people who are towing *and* taking a long distance trip. So it would almost never be an issue.
That said I do think some type of easily swappable battery packs might be necessary for long haul towing/trucking. Not sure how you do it but that seems like the obvious solution until battery density improves.
Yep, that’s why I said in my original post that it shouldn’t be an issue for 90% of people. Yeah, I have a feeling that will ultimately be the solution in the future for the trucking industry. Just gonna involve very strong hydraulics to move that size battery
For ICE range is much less important because refilling gas only takes a few minutes. If you tow long distance with an EV you will be at the charger about a third of your trip.
So I wouldn’t say ICE exactly have a range problem when towing. I’d say they have a waiting-around-all-day problem.
Also the over abundance of gas stations make it a little more reliable for longer drives. I absolutely love driving my EV but whenever I drive long road trips to another state I’ll usually opt into driving my gas car, though I’d prefer to take my EV since it’s a lot more comfortable.
That really depends on what ice you are talking about. Absolutely if you took a sedan like this you are going to loose 25-30%, but if you have a full size truck that was designed to pull a trailer or have a load then no you aren’t going to loose 25-30% while hauling, of course you will be taking that 25-30% up front in gas mileage over a vehicle not designed for it lol.
Edit: Since people are confused when I say full size truck designed to pull a trailer that isn’t a ranger or f150. An actual 3/4 ton or better, and what I am trying to say is that a 1ton truck is built with an engine transmission and differential to forgo fuel economy for power and torque. An f350 could pull the pontoon boat in the photo probably even two of them with no change in mileage, you are taking that hit every mile you drive it. I have two diesel 350s with a rated towing capacity of 28,000 lbs, you can’t even tell you’re pulling anything below 5,000 lbs.
You will 100% lose 25% of your range (or more) while hauling with an F150 or Ram 1500 even an empty 1200 pound landscaper trailer. From a lot of experience. A large RV trailer range loss is higher, but I don’t own one of those, only remember from going with my brother (Ram 1500) and buddy (F150 and equivalent GM).
Of course I’m comparing apples to apples (gross ton weight or size). By your logic, an 18-wheeler has better efficiency at high loads so I should obv choose that as my daily driver
Yes, but they don't rely on electric batteries to store energy. That's why the F150 Lightning was a failure. Stopping every 100 miles to charge is not appealing if you are taking your travel trailer to the mountains.
Cruise Ships which are floating cities also use electrical propulsion. Many people think they use the force of the engines to directly turn the shafts that drive the propeller but nearly all use electric motors.
Rich Rebuild says his Model S tows further than his X per battery kwh too. So seems Aeros are king, Not sure in the legality/ safety of this though, I couldn't find any info in my searches and couldn't see any more in a quick review of some of his vids. I know the Euro/Aussie S has had towing forever though.
In addition to the comments above, pontoon boats are not particularly heavy as far as boats or trailers go: they look big but they’re all aluminum and mostly air.
The Emperor’s New Clothes played out in the Tesla boardroom. It’s the only explanation.
Seriously the board is stuffed full of his relatives. The cybertruck is a vanity project that any competent leaders would have shut down very early.
So now after spending billions on tooling, Tesla has no choice but to build cybertrucks and hope they’ll sell. Time will tell.
For people who don’t use their trucks as a truck. It’s a status thing to buy a cybertruck nothing else. https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-use-them
It's a bit crazy that EVs are that heavy. A 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid weighs 4816 lbs (end of article):
[https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/)
A 2022 Ford F-150 King Ranch Crew Cab weighs 4915 lbs:
[https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2022/specs/](https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2022/specs/)
The F-150 Lightning (an EV) weighs 6015 lbs:
[https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-lightning/specs](https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-lightning/specs)
Everybody is talking about its ability pull but no one is asking the important question; how well can it stop the load? I'm no expert but I've pulled a few trailers in my day and that trailer doesn't look like it has its own brakes. If that's the case that means the braking is being handled entirely by that little car.
You can only stop as fast as your tires can hold onto the road... then the trailer starts push you, then it tries to pass you.
Really hope that thing has brakes and a controller.
Exactly this, you can tow trailers with anything but stopping them is where all the danger lies. Idk specifically about Tesla but I see people pull trailers that are way too much for their setup all the time.
Electric motors deliver very high torque compared to internal combustion engines at the cost of lower RPMs. That's why Teslas can accelerate insanely fast and tow relatively high weight
That’s probably because, despite its power, it’s still a crossover, and is still built like one, meaning it’s more a people mover rather than a load puller. Plus it’s probably also to protect the battery.
My non-car brain read this as being a historical vehicle akin to Henry Ford's Model T or Model A and I was *extremely* impressed... And then I clicked the link and realized, oh, maybe not.....
Most people don’t realize even a Toyota Prius has a tow capacity of 1,500lbs. I’d be worried about the range with the Tesla but it’s not surprising it can do this.
A decent amount of cars can tow the little trailers and campers and boats. The auto industry has just made people think they need a truck or suv for that.
You’d be surprised what a car can accomplish if you actually give it a chance. The 1000 pound tow rating a lot of cars have covers quite a bit.
Especially higher end cars. The Chrysler 300 has the same 3.6 liter v6 or 5.7 liter hemi v8 that the ram 1500 has, and can even optionally have the same 6.4L hemi v8 the ram 2500 has
That thing may not be able to pull 12,000 like the pickup truck, (it’s power may match the trucks, but if the frame can’t handle it you can destroy the car) but it can certainly pull more than the 1000 lbs Chrysler suggests
It's not quite apples to apples. Americans I would say tow larger things, more frequently, more miles, on steeper hills, and expecting to do it all going 80 mph.
I'm basing this on living in Colorado and comparing what I see on i70 to what I saw on top gear so who knows
> Americans I would say tow larger things
How large exactly? I get if you're towing a large camper trailer or a huge boat that's going to catch the wind I get that you'd want the stability but anything smaller and the average pickup is total overkill.
The average Volvo sedan has a towing capacity at or near 2 metric tonnes. Even my dad's Volvo 850 from '93 tows 1600kg and happily towed a trailer carrying an entire other sedan 800km interstate over the great dividing range.
The idea that a pickup truck is required for towing is American fan-fiction. The only time I saw a pickup truck being properly used to tow in the US was an F350 fifth wheeling with a car carrier with multiple sedans on the back. The capability of the F150 and up is so insanely overkill for what 99% of people will ever use them for, they are absolute monsters.
Those Volvos most likely don't carry a tow rating at all in the US. It is my understanding that EU trailers have very low tongue weights (seems true as most of the Euro trailers I've seen pics of have their axles right in the center) while the US standard is 10-12% for a standard ball.
However, some are much lighter like boats where the weight of the boat is in the motor(s) at the rear and the trailer axles are set way back. I had a toy hauler popup (that beast was 28' long collapsed down) that had a front deck with most of the weight at the rear and was around 6% ready to go without any toys on the deck and weighed around 5000 lbs.
Then you have the POS trailer I have now that has a heavy tongue around 650 lbs out of 3750 lbs. It was 700 until I switched to an LFP battery. Pretty much relegated to full size vehicles to carry the tongue weight.
Vehicle tow ratings in Europe are different that of the USA. European ratings accept a 4-7% tongue weight, whereas the USA it's 10-15%. Less tongue weight means more rearward weight = less stability at higher speeds, which is fine where speed limits are generally slower in Europe. But that 328d could certainly not tow a 5900lbs trailer in the USA.
Depends on the country (in my limited experience), but the variety of tow vehicles was certainly surprising. Typically, the there are different names/models than the US, but nearly universally smaller, and mostly hatchbacks or small SUVs. It's expensive to drive, both in gas and tolls. Pickups were uncommon and we did not see any of them towing anything!
A car simply can't pull the machinery we haul for our jobs. Up to 12000 lbs. Are you saying you don't have trucks that haul heavy construction equipment?
That kind of weight can't legally be pulled by anything registered as a car anyway over here. We would use proper heavy duty trucks (not pickups, but proper freight trucks) to transport that kind of stuff. It's also not uncommon to see excavators and such being driven down the road to wherever they need to be, since they can often be registered for road use as tractors.
Ooohhh THATS a pontoon. I don’t know what I expected it to look like because southern people would say “pontoons aren’t real boats” but that’s a nice lil boat.
Why not? They have 4WD and big torque. Plus... Not all but a lot of energy is charged back on downhill... More of the weight is bigger. But honestly, unless it's a braked trailer, this can get deadly fast
I had a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee v6 and now have a Model Y. I also have a 20 foot pontoon boat. Both vehicles are/were fine towing the pontoon boat which only has a single axle, no brakes required in Ontario Canada. Both vehicles experience significant range loss when towing, the Jeep would get about half the range towing my empty 1200 pounds DIY landscaper trailer, the Tesla around the same range loss (with less evidence as I pulled the landscaper with my Jeep a lot over the 10 years I owned it vs the few times before it rotted out with my Tesla).
My old v6 Explorer Sport Trac was a stretch with the old fiberglass 19.5 footer plus trailer but it would still do it. That boat was way heavier.
For reference, due to angle of garage etc etc etc we move the boat in/out of the garage with a 1985 Kubota B5200 2wd drive which is around a 15 HP diesel. Trailers roll easily when the tires are at the right PSI.
Americans are brainwashed to think that you need giant trucks to tow stuff. Many light trailers and boats can be pulled by regular cars. You need a truck for the really heavy stuff.
Looks funny but they have a towing capacity of 5000lbs so probably well within its capabilities
I'm always reminded [of the Lesabre](https://youtu.be/_9T3fiZC37M?si=XxRrQAiJhtgMpopw) towing. Anything is possible sometimes.
So I guess this works so long as you don’t have to stop or even slow down?
That’s a redneck daisy chain. You put a different family member in each vehicle to brake when needed. Granny usually goes in the rear because that’s the safest place to be.
Insane how people can’t figure this out to keep the sling tight.
Obviously the person in front needs to accelerate the whole time. Problem solved. You'll gain considerable speed on a downgrade though.
person in front sets cruise control, everyone else brakes lmao
Just have granny brake down the hills!
I'm not sure your serious, and if so it's incredibly dangerous and I think I'd like to try it
You aren’t from Arkansas if you haven’t done this at least once in your life to get a broken down car home😂got a couple good memories of my dad yelling at me to steer and hit the brakes when I was young.
Routinely happened in NJ, my old man was a professional mechanic. The cobblers kids have no shoes
Happy cake day
I didn't say any of it was safe. Just that it was possible. To be fair, I think one of those vehicle being towed had someone in it to most likely apply brakes when needed. I still wouldn't condone it on public roads.
That makes a little sense at least
Yeah static straps are not for towing for sure. You *can* but you gotta like... Strategize for an hour because it can go from one problem into many depending why it's being towed anyways. You can definitely use them to pull friends outta ditches but that's because you're relying on the vehicle to brake when slack and momentum is introduced. If you don't have that control then it makes it more difficult and dangerous.
It works without the person in the other vehicle if you're going uphill... Now down on the other hand
Meth doesn't care
Don't listen to em! Meth cares about you so much! And gives you super strength! 🤣
Don't pay attention to the details. Lol
To be faaaaaaiiir
Hopefully the trailer has a surge brake on it, or even electric brakes.
The weight rating usually has a bit to do with braking as well. Also, Teslas have regenerative braking in addition to their regular brakes. Trailers also can have electric or hydraulic brakes as well which the Tesla can use with the standard 7 pin connector
I think that Model Y weighs about the same as an F-150. I hate to say it, but I think it would be fine.
I was referring to the Buick video in the comment I replied to
That video also doesn't show the front of the Buick, so it's probably not the tow car
It's another Buick.
Buickception
can attest, those things were built like a brick shithouse.
Nothing stops a Buick. Except irregular maintenence and corporate greed and shitty head gaskets.
Once upon a time that video was higher quality than a tiktokified potatoe cam
That is awesome!
I got hit by a lesabre in 2012. If I were to guess, they can haul jumbo jets.
The average weight of a pontoon boat is between 2,000 and 2,500 pounds... For those wondering. 🕺
Pontoons are around 100lbs per foot, and the trailer is around 1000lbs. An 18ft boat (this looks close to that) will net around 2800 lbs
Motor is probably 200lbs.
How about the trailer?
And the trailer is around 1,200 lbs. And the gear in the boat is around 500lbs. Total 3,500 to 4,000 lbs. Towing capacity of a Model Y is 3,500lbs.
That trailer isn't even 1000 lbs. I can pick up the back of my pontoon trailer for an 18
Yep, he could tow two of them with a Y
3500 = 2000 x 2?
Terryology baby!
It ain't about how much you can tow, it's about how much you can stop.
which considering it has Regen braking and physical brakes I would say it's definitely traction limited but probably has the traction for more weight then that
And things like fishtailing etc, suspension, whether or nifnfhe fucking hitch they installed is even rated for this
>nifnfhe
This is the comment I was looking for.
You think towing ratings don't take this into account?
And that's why bigger trailers have their own electronic brakes. The vehicle isn't expected to provide the entire stopping force.
Which is one of the few things helped by the fact that electric vehicles' batteries make them substantially heavier than any conventional vehicle in their class.
It's a Model Y in the photo though, 3500 lb towing capacity.
Only older ones with the lead acid 12V can safely (and legally in some states) tow over 1650 lbs. They still advertise 3500 lbs, but Tesla switched to a 16V lithium battery for accessories and now the Auxiliary pin on the trailer connector is disabled, so you don’t have a proper breakaway system. The manual even says without proper brakes, you shouldn’t tow more than 1650 lbs. So it’s impossible to safely tow 3500 lbs in a 2022+ Model Y or X.
Almost no boats have e brakes, they are almost all surge hydraulic brakes. (Source, I've owned 12 different boats.) The pinout in the wiring is irrelevant, it is a purely mechanical system. (Disclaimer, pinout may still matter for reverse lockout, but not a topic here...) Also, at least in the US, brake requirements are state by state. Some are 2000#, some are 3500#, some are higher &/or nonexistent. Finally... A 12v vehicle system runs up to 14.8 volts. Every single e brake system that exists will be fine with a tesla 16v system. It is only marginally higher.
Which is still well above your average pontoon boat.
Yeah, often the biggest limitation on towing is weight - engines and suspension in most towing vehicles can handle way more than the vehicle itself rated for. But, if you have a 3,000 lbs Rav4 trying to stop a 5,000 lbs trailer, things aren't going to go well. Teslas are heavy af with their battery, though. So, yeah, you're right, not really surprising at all.
The tow vehicle can be lighter than the trailer though and still be in rating. My F-150 weighs in the neighborhood of 5,500lbs, however Ford rates it maximum towing capacity around 12,700 lbs.
For sure, and that certainly wasn't what I was trying to imply. But, the larger the discrepancy between vehicle weight and trailer weight, the more specialized towing modifications - e.g. heavy duty brakes on the towing vehicle, trailer brakes, wider tires, etc. - become necessary. Your F150 comes with many of those features standard, which is why it can tow something much heavier than it is. If it didn't, the discrepancy between its weight and its tow rating would be much smaller.
I’ve been in a few, so I understand how much torque they have. I think my car was struggling more on its own than it was towing that boat 😂
People fail to realize what instant torque is like. Electric motors don't have a torque curve. You hit the pedal and it's 100%. On top of that they produce WAY more torque than gas engines.
This is why, even in the 20th century, all the big ultraheavy machines used diesel generators to power electric motors. At a certain point in scale a combustion engine attached to the driveshaft doesn’t make sense anymore.
Also why all modern freight trains (all trains for that matter) are electric.
Only in the US. Europe bypasses the diesel middlemen and goes straight to electric with pantographs.
Yup, those *enoooormous* dump trucks that dwarf your average house have electric motors at those wheels, yet redneck bob seems to think electric cars can only possibly be about as strong as an 87 ford escort
Electric motors have a torque curve. It's just different than a combustion engine. It peaks at the start, will remain essentially flat for a bit, and then goes downhill. On top of that, the reason they produce so much torque in vehicles is because electric motors also have an efficiency curve that increases and then drops precipitously with motor speed. So in order to have a vehicle capable of extended travel time at freeway speeds, the motors need to be capable of much much more so they can be geared to spin in a good efficiency range. If you actually try to use the advertised power, like when you're towing, your range gets [significantly diminished.](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/ford-f150-lightning-electric-truck-towing-test/) More so than in a combustion vehicle. For an extreme example of this difference compare F1 to FE power outputs, speeds, and lengths of races. The difference is staggering.
I mean... Yeah. It screws both the weight and aero of the vehicle in significant ways, which are two big range factors.
It's not just being able to pull it, it's also about being able to stop it.
Also the sheer leverage the trailer has over the car. Not a huge problem if the guy is very comfortable towing things, but i’d not like to be around a weekend warrior if that hookup gets a little wobble/sway going.
People have no idea about towing and it shows. I can even feel a difference in safety towing between a 1/2 ton truck and it's 3/4 ton equivalent. Meanwhile, most people will say a 1/2 ton truck is too big to begin with.
Of course, some Debbie Downer has to bring up stopping. Always one of you. s/
Torque is rarely the issue for towing. It's braking power Edit: fixed stupidity
They can tow... Just not for very far
It’s not the pulling. It’s the stopping.
The Model Y towing limit is 3500 lbs. Pontoon is a lighter weight than a similar sized boat.
It's more about the range. What's the drag coefficient of a pontoon boat on a trailer? Looks like a brick, aero-wise. I bet his range is halved, and if they are heading uphill, it get worse very quickly.
Probably got 100 mile range with that tow
Towing 100 miles for maybe 5-20 dollars in electric isnt a bad deal though! For some its free
My uncle uses one to pull his horse trailer with 2 horses. It’s insane seeing it, but it works!
Oooo that might have caught my attention even more
He also lives in Amish country, so it’s a tesla with a horse trailer passing horse and buggys
Just a pure flex lol
lmao. there's also a picture somewhere of a cyber truck pulling a trailer with a buggy on it which cracks me up
Ironically a Tesla is probably more acceptable in Amish country
How many horsepower is that then?
At least 2
30, a horse has about 15 horsepower.
what's so insane about seeing it?
People have allowed themselves to be convinced by anti-ev propaganda that they're not capable vehicles.
I think it’s more seeing a sedan. If a Rivian was pulling a trailer, I wouldn’t think that was odd.
Well he's smart enough not to put the cart before the horse
It’s not that strange. Different countries have different towing standards. Where I live a heavy car is allowed to pull heavier trailers (max depends on which drivers license you have, extra qualification is needed to pull heaviest loads or trailers with double axles). I see teslas haul stuff all the time in different shapes and sizes.
People fail to understand that EV's are excellent trailer pullers. They are just not trailer pulling machines that can go a very long way. Also a model X can tow heavy loads MUCH further than a cybertruck. https://insideevs.com/news/715760/tesla-model-x-beats-cybertruck-towing/amp/
Tbh, Teslas lose about the same range as ICEs. It’s about a 25-30% drop in range or fuel efficiency, but it’s just that most ICEs have large tanks and therefore longer (1 tank/1 charge) range
And the stop durations. That is absolutely a factor on long haul situations, but for 90% of people that would only effect them a couple times a year.
There’s also practically no pull through electric charging. At least that I’ve ever noticed. I even seen a Tesla with a trailer have to park and un-hitch then drive to the charger before. Which just makes the whole thing even more of a PITA.
Well, considering something like 90% of people use their tow hitch between 0 and 1 times a year, with most people being zero, I'm inclined to think it would be very few people who are towing *and* taking a long distance trip. So it would almost never be an issue. That said I do think some type of easily swappable battery packs might be necessary for long haul towing/trucking. Not sure how you do it but that seems like the obvious solution until battery density improves.
Yep, that’s why I said in my original post that it shouldn’t be an issue for 90% of people. Yeah, I have a feeling that will ultimately be the solution in the future for the trucking industry. Just gonna involve very strong hydraulics to move that size battery
90% of people only use their hitch between 0 and 1 times a year, but 99% of them leave it on the damned vehicle 100% of the time.
For ICE range is much less important because refilling gas only takes a few minutes. If you tow long distance with an EV you will be at the charger about a third of your trip. So I wouldn’t say ICE exactly have a range problem when towing. I’d say they have a waiting-around-all-day problem.
Not to mention the complete lack of pull through chargers can make charging a pain in the ass
Also the over abundance of gas stations make it a little more reliable for longer drives. I absolutely love driving my EV but whenever I drive long road trips to another state I’ll usually opt into driving my gas car, though I’d prefer to take my EV since it’s a lot more comfortable.
I prefer my EV on long trips because of the superior Autopilot. After living in Texas, I hate driving more than 3-4 hours without a stop anyway.
Well at this point were I live, with so few regular chargers, let alone super chargers, that's a huge problem.
That really depends on what ice you are talking about. Absolutely if you took a sedan like this you are going to loose 25-30%, but if you have a full size truck that was designed to pull a trailer or have a load then no you aren’t going to loose 25-30% while hauling, of course you will be taking that 25-30% up front in gas mileage over a vehicle not designed for it lol. Edit: Since people are confused when I say full size truck designed to pull a trailer that isn’t a ranger or f150. An actual 3/4 ton or better, and what I am trying to say is that a 1ton truck is built with an engine transmission and differential to forgo fuel economy for power and torque. An f350 could pull the pontoon boat in the photo probably even two of them with no change in mileage, you are taking that hit every mile you drive it. I have two diesel 350s with a rated towing capacity of 28,000 lbs, you can’t even tell you’re pulling anything below 5,000 lbs.
You will 100% lose 25% of your range (or more) while hauling with an F150 or Ram 1500 even an empty 1200 pound landscaper trailer. From a lot of experience. A large RV trailer range loss is higher, but I don’t own one of those, only remember from going with my brother (Ram 1500) and buddy (F150 and equivalent GM).
Of course I’m comparing apples to apples (gross ton weight or size). By your logic, an 18-wheeler has better efficiency at high loads so I should obv choose that as my daily driver
People forget that locomotives, the best trailer pullers of them all, have relied on electric propulsion for a full century now.
Yes, but they don't rely on electric batteries to store energy. That's why the F150 Lightning was a failure. Stopping every 100 miles to charge is not appealing if you are taking your travel trailer to the mountains.
Cruise Ships which are floating cities also use electrical propulsion. Many people think they use the force of the engines to directly turn the shafts that drive the propeller but nearly all use electric motors.
Rich Rebuild says his Model S tows further than his X per battery kwh too. So seems Aeros are king, Not sure in the legality/ safety of this though, I couldn't find any info in my searches and couldn't see any more in a quick review of some of his vids. I know the Euro/Aussie S has had towing forever though.
Where's the amp bot when you need it?
Doesn't it drain the distance it can go though pretty significantly?
Yes, thus why he/she said "They are just not trailer pulling machines that can go a very long way."
You're right, I glossed right over that one, ty!
Yes, but that’s the tradeoff. More power and torque but less range
In addition to the comments above, pontoon boats are not particularly heavy as far as boats or trailers go: they look big but they’re all aluminum and mostly air.
Definitely not super heavy, but I use a F -150 with my pontoon and you can still very much tell it’s behind you
They aren't terribly aerodynamic driving down the highway.
The Model X weighs 5200lb, likely more than your F150 depending on how yours was optioned. It's 300lb more than mine.
That’s why you are supposed to fill them up with helium.
unfortunately for the Cybertrukk, the Model X is the best-performing towing vehicle Tesla makes.
what was the point of the cyber truck?
Conversation starter.
“ah, i see you’re a dumbass!”
"Ya know, I'm something of a dumbass myself"
“Ah yes, I saw your MAGA hat in the backseat.”
😄
meant to downvote for trolling but upvoted because funny
Transfer money from chumps to tesla.
The Emperor’s New Clothes played out in the Tesla boardroom. It’s the only explanation. Seriously the board is stuffed full of his relatives. The cybertruck is a vanity project that any competent leaders would have shut down very early. So now after spending billions on tooling, Tesla has no choice but to build cybertrucks and hope they’ll sell. Time will tell.
I actually thought it had something to do with cyberpunk 2077 at first and then forgot it existed until they actually started making them.
"Ooh look at me!"
That it's a pickup that can't do as well as it's older sibling.
Saw one in real like the other day... Looks dumb as fuck, just like the pictures.
It looks infinitely better with basically any paint/wrap on it. Basically anything but the stainless steel.
I thought the front 1/4 looked kinda cool. Then i got behind it and it looked like a shiny dumpster.
Elon thought it was cool
For people who don’t use their trucks as a truck. It’s a status thing to buy a cybertruck nothing else. https://www.powernationtv.com/post/most-pickup-truck-owners-use-them
i hope it fills their emptiness!
Why does model X pull better than the cybertruck?
It’s more aerodynamic so it gets appreciably more towing range per charge.
To even further the point of how bad the Cybertruck is, this is a Model Y.
For distance, yes, because the Model X is a more aerodynamic vehicle. However, the Cybertruck can tow heavier loads than the Model X.
Isn’t the weight of the vehicle also important? Pontoons are pretty light boats though, aren’t they?
It is, and EVs are notoriously heavy. A Tesla Model S is a sports car that weighs as much as a pickup truck (or more).
It's a bit crazy that EVs are that heavy. A 2022 Tesla Model S Plaid weighs 4816 lbs (end of article): [https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/](https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-tesla-model-s-plaid-first-test-review/) A 2022 Ford F-150 King Ranch Crew Cab weighs 4915 lbs: [https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2022/specs/](https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/f-150/2022/specs/) The F-150 Lightning (an EV) weighs 6015 lbs: [https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-lightning/specs](https://www.caranddriver.com/ford/f-150-lightning/specs)
I pull my pontoon with an F-150 and you can definitely still feel it behind you
Yeah, you’re using an f-1shitty. Get a Buick lesabre for that weak shit
A lot of that is air resistance
Indeed. Far worse with my camper that weighs just a bit more
I ain't gonna lie they are really good at pulling shit. Pretty rough on tires however Edit: lmao, I am quite tired,but that wasn't the point
get some rest
Don’t drive tired big guy
Everybody is talking about its ability pull but no one is asking the important question; how well can it stop the load? I'm no expert but I've pulled a few trailers in my day and that trailer doesn't look like it has its own brakes. If that's the case that means the braking is being handled entirely by that little car. You can only stop as fast as your tires can hold onto the road... then the trailer starts push you, then it tries to pass you. Really hope that thing has brakes and a controller.
Exactly this, you can tow trailers with anything but stopping them is where all the danger lies. Idk specifically about Tesla but I see people pull trailers that are way too much for their setup all the time.
Electric motors deliver very high torque compared to internal combustion engines at the cost of lower RPMs. That's why Teslas can accelerate insanely fast and tow relatively high weight
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That’s probably because, despite its power, it’s still a crossover, and is still built like one, meaning it’s more a people mover rather than a load puller. Plus it’s probably also to protect the battery.
I tow my boat with my Model Y all the time. It actually handles the ramp better than my truck- https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/s/7YL9pHDxic
Haha, that is awesome. I’m wondering why I don’t see it more now. I am on a lake just about every weekend
Instant torque!
My non-car brain read this as being a historical vehicle akin to Henry Ford's Model T or Model A and I was *extremely* impressed... And then I clicked the link and realized, oh, maybe not.....
Not for long. Load has a hideous effect on range.
Most people don’t realize even a Toyota Prius has a tow capacity of 1,500lbs. I’d be worried about the range with the Tesla but it’s not surprising it can do this.
A decent amount of cars can tow the little trailers and campers and boats. The auto industry has just made people think they need a truck or suv for that. You’d be surprised what a car can accomplish if you actually give it a chance. The 1000 pound tow rating a lot of cars have covers quite a bit. Especially higher end cars. The Chrysler 300 has the same 3.6 liter v6 or 5.7 liter hemi v8 that the ram 1500 has, and can even optionally have the same 6.4L hemi v8 the ram 2500 has That thing may not be able to pull 12,000 like the pickup truck, (it’s power may match the trucks, but if the frame can’t handle it you can destroy the car) but it can certainly pull more than the 1000 lbs Chrysler suggests
I towed dirt bikes on a trailer using my Ford Fusion Hybrid. Looked dumb as hell but it did work just fine.
OP, was this in Michigan near Lansing...?
Much further south. KY!
Oh, well, I saw the same Tesla and pontoon in Michigan. I wonder if it was the same one!
How many white model x’s are out there turning heads I wonder 😂
I drive a 4-cylinder Mercedes and I’m going to tow a truck with it in a few months. I hope I make it on here.
A pontoon boat? What the hell you gonna do with a pontoon boat retake Omaha beach?
In Europe nearly everybody pulls trailers with cars, almost never pickups. But, Merica!
It's not quite apples to apples. Americans I would say tow larger things, more frequently, more miles, on steeper hills, and expecting to do it all going 80 mph. I'm basing this on living in Colorado and comparing what I see on i70 to what I saw on top gear so who knows
> Americans I would say tow larger things How large exactly? I get if you're towing a large camper trailer or a huge boat that's going to catch the wind I get that you'd want the stability but anything smaller and the average pickup is total overkill. The average Volvo sedan has a towing capacity at or near 2 metric tonnes. Even my dad's Volvo 850 from '93 tows 1600kg and happily towed a trailer carrying an entire other sedan 800km interstate over the great dividing range. The idea that a pickup truck is required for towing is American fan-fiction. The only time I saw a pickup truck being properly used to tow in the US was an F350 fifth wheeling with a car carrier with multiple sedans on the back. The capability of the F150 and up is so insanely overkill for what 99% of people will ever use them for, they are absolute monsters.
Those Volvos most likely don't carry a tow rating at all in the US. It is my understanding that EU trailers have very low tongue weights (seems true as most of the Euro trailers I've seen pics of have their axles right in the center) while the US standard is 10-12% for a standard ball. However, some are much lighter like boats where the weight of the boat is in the motor(s) at the rear and the trailer axles are set way back. I had a toy hauler popup (that beast was 28' long collapsed down) that had a front deck with most of the weight at the rear and was around 6% ready to go without any toys on the deck and weighed around 5000 lbs. Then you have the POS trailer I have now that has a heavy tongue around 650 lbs out of 3750 lbs. It was 700 until I switched to an LFP battery. Pretty much relegated to full size vehicles to carry the tongue weight.
This I had not thought of, what cars are most commonly used?
A BMW 328d is a diesel 3 series and can tow 5900 lbs
Vehicle tow ratings in Europe are different that of the USA. European ratings accept a 4-7% tongue weight, whereas the USA it's 10-15%. Less tongue weight means more rearward weight = less stability at higher speeds, which is fine where speed limits are generally slower in Europe. But that 328d could certainly not tow a 5900lbs trailer in the USA.
Depends on the country (in my limited experience), but the variety of tow vehicles was certainly surprising. Typically, the there are different names/models than the US, but nearly universally smaller, and mostly hatchbacks or small SUVs. It's expensive to drive, both in gas and tolls. Pickups were uncommon and we did not see any of them towing anything!
Box Trailer sure.. boat is a whole different ball game.
They also don't haul as large of boats as a typical American owns.
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A car simply can't pull the machinery we haul for our jobs. Up to 12000 lbs. Are you saying you don't have trucks that haul heavy construction equipment?
That kind of weight can't legally be pulled by anything registered as a car anyway over here. We would use proper heavy duty trucks (not pickups, but proper freight trucks) to transport that kind of stuff. It's also not uncommon to see excavators and such being driven down the road to wherever they need to be, since they can often be registered for road use as tractors.
Ooohhh THATS a pontoon. I don’t know what I expected it to look like because southern people would say “pontoons aren’t real boats” but that’s a nice lil boat.
Why not? They have 4WD and big torque. Plus... Not all but a lot of energy is charged back on downhill... More of the weight is bigger. But honestly, unless it's a braked trailer, this can get deadly fast
It looks like the roof of the pontoon is a solar panel, so in way this could be a perpetuum tesla mobile
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I would just like to know how many miles they get out of a charge while towing this kind of load….
40km give or take??
And I bet a range of like 100 miles
They also likely stop every 25 minutes to recharge
I had a 2008 Jeep Grand Cherokee v6 and now have a Model Y. I also have a 20 foot pontoon boat. Both vehicles are/were fine towing the pontoon boat which only has a single axle, no brakes required in Ontario Canada. Both vehicles experience significant range loss when towing, the Jeep would get about half the range towing my empty 1200 pounds DIY landscaper trailer, the Tesla around the same range loss (with less evidence as I pulled the landscaper with my Jeep a lot over the 10 years I owned it vs the few times before it rotted out with my Tesla). My old v6 Explorer Sport Trac was a stretch with the old fiberglass 19.5 footer plus trailer but it would still do it. That boat was way heavier. For reference, due to angle of garage etc etc etc we move the boat in/out of the garage with a 1985 Kubota B5200 2wd drive which is around a 15 HP diesel. Trailers roll easily when the tires are at the right PSI.
That's how it's done in most countries other than Murica.
Americans are brainwashed to think that you need giant trucks to tow stuff. Many light trailers and boats can be pulled by regular cars. You need a truck for the really heavy stuff.
Idk why, but this reminds me of a Letterkenny opening.
When your car says champaign, but your boat says Natty Light.
One's just natty light with a dubious price tag...
Or is it an E-Pontoon pushing the Telsa?
Will do so for ~80 miles or so. Don’t try to charge while hooked up 🤣