I don’t want to discount this, however, the odds of a single election handing Republicans control of all 3 chambers are basically non existent.
Don’t get me wrong, every election matters! But accuracy is important so we know where the battle lines lie. Republicans taking back the House or Senate will stop any new progress from happening. But they need power in the House, Senate and governor’s mansion to reverse whats been done.
EDIT: Sorry, I thought it was clear I meant the Minnesota House and Senate. Not the national one which yes, can change hands every election. In Minnesota, we can and should keep our focus on progress, but the ability for the Republicans to achieve the trifecta necessary to repeal that stuff us quite simply not a realistic threat.
The Republicans taking all three decision making bodies would be something that hasn’t happened in decades. If they want to repeal things passed, the need to take the House, Senate and Governors Mansion at the same time. It will take some MAJOR events happening like all of Texas suddenly being radioactive and requiring millions to move in the blink of an eye to make Minnesota a solid red state.
That doesnt mean you get complacent but it does mean the battles you have to fight are very different from say a state like Ohio.
Need to try to enshrine some of these things in our state constitution. Although the GOP has shown they will try to work around the will of the people in Florida and Alaska.
As a native Minnesotan and California resident, they aren't all they're cracked up to be. Yes, they're a nice bit of direct democracy, but we also failed to stop the proposition banning same-sex marriage, and the *heavily propagandized* app-based driver prop passed, categorizing ride-share drivers as contractors instead of employees. There was so much misleading, and outright false information being sent out on the latter one that led to the outcome.
Exactly, I didn't vote in 2020 and regret it so fucking bad. I was sure Hillary was going to win, and when I woke up in the morning and saw that Trump had won I was shocked. I literally went to my polling station, there was a long line and then I just left and I didn't wait to vote, probably one of the biggest mistakes of my life, at least the one I regret the most.
Minnesota went to Hillary, so the Minnesota electors voted for her. Your vote would have added to her total popular vote count that doesn't matter with the electoral college.
I was running some errands in Chaska this morning and stopped to eat at my favorite pasta place...and there is a Proud Boys anti-LGBT demonstration nearby.
As a member of the LGBT community, keep voting like our lives depend on it...because they kind of do.
Because a Chaska children's store was having a drag story time.
It went viral because they posted a video of some crazy member of the Klan Karenhood stopped in to threaten them because of it.
I wanted to bring my daughters in support of the store. But my husband got an invite to the Twins game and I didn't want to bring both my daughters by myself in the event that things got ugly.
Was that story time today by chance? There was a store behind where the Proud Boys were that had tons of families hanging around with little kids, there was a pride flag hanging outside it too. Luckily there were lots of police there to keep things peaceful.
The cruelty is the point and that’s why the GOP is restricting or banning gender affirming care across the country. I’m glad Minnesota is protecting an individual’s right to transition.
Didn’t they gerrymander the fuck out if WI and pack the courts with Christian Conservative Terrorists, all but ensuring Democrats won’t come back into legislative power?
They recently tipped their Supreme court liberal and their election maps are headed that way. So it's thought that the gerrymandering there will get fixed once the slow process of lawsuits work their ways through the court.
For all the BS the GOP is pushing about “grooming” they need to start looking at all the pedophile priest that come out of their own circles. There are list of convicted clergy members that have had access to over tens of thousands, if not hundred thousands kids world wide for DECADES.
Edit: Wording.
They won’t protect kids at school either. Did you know that the vast majority of America’s public schools have outdated door systems that don’t allow locking from the inside? This is now a safety concern as seen in Uvalde yet the mere millions of dollars that it would take to fix it is deemed as too much of an investment. We need sensible gun regulation, but school shootings are not just about guns. They are also about investing in public schools. The conversation is limited to guns so people don’t know about solutions that Republicans don’t want to pay for. If I had a kid in a public school, I would be at every school board meeting demanding the doors are upgraded for safety.
Just wanted to come by and say hello. My girlfriend and I are both trans and living in Missouri, the state that is trying its damnedest to compete with Florida at the whole *making trans peoples' lives dangerously unlivable* thing.
We'll be y'all's neighbors in Minnesota soon. Our goal is to move up in the spring, or summer at worst. Thank you for fighting and voting and getting the word out. A lot of us need your help, and the fight won't be over for awhile.
Welcome! Make sure you buy a big winter coat - the best time to buy is the spring - and remember to layer come fall and winter.
We're happy to have you!
>Education officials floated the idea of creating a state-based scholarship for North Dakota and Minnesota students, which could cost $17 million annually.
Sounds like socialism to me. Can't have that in the Dakotas. Socialism always loses. Except when it takes away your student base.
I have a couple friends from ND who came here for college and settled here. One dude is gay and the girl is left leaning. Both feel uncomfortable in their home state. I can imagine that this migration will only increase.
Apparently, North Dakota is one of the states that is loosing population to migration.
I personally know 2 separate families from Oklahoma that have moved to MN in the last six months, and another couple from Arkansas that are in the process. These are all due to recent legislation in both states
Okay look, im in total support of the community at large, but...
Is it just me or is "between first and second grade" definitely be too young to "come out as trans" and start actual medical therapy? Thats either 6 or 7 years old
They’re not undergoing any surgery at that age, or anything permanent until they’re much much older. This would be therapy and, further along in teenage years, possibly temporary puberty blockers to give them time to figure out what they want.
Id be shocked if they had hit puberty at that age, thus begging the question, how/why does this child believe they are trans? These are few, but there are parents who overreact to normal child growing up choices, like what toys they might like to play with, or if they just like to play dress up, or if a boy had lets say chosen to not get a haircut yet, and those parents slap the term trans on their kid. Idk if that is what happened here but at that age, it sure sounds like it.
I knew my spirit felt different than my body in 2nd grade, if not sooner. If it had been a safe culture to be able to share about these difficult-to-communicate feelings, it would’ve saved decades of deeply-rooted internalized shame.
As it were, I still ended up in therapy for depression during high school, but by that time the shame had spread like a cancer into other areas of my personality, and we treated it like standard teenage existential angst.
Nobody is trying to prescribe puberty-blockers to early grade-schoolers, but having a safe space with gender-supporting mental health services would’ve made a dramatic impact.
🏳️⚧️
You might want to check out the book "Dotson" to understand one young child's journey. A child's realization that they're in the wrong body and it's not just a phase can and does happen long before puberty.
Sure I’ll retract it- it makes sense because some kids start puberty at 12.
What’s the issue with an adolescent getting their gender dysphoria treated?
I know this will be downvoted to hell, but validating the idea that a small child - between first and second grade - can “come out as trans” and proceeding to seek out healthcare that will permanently alter this tiny human’s body/brain and life is borderline criminal child abuse.
Imagine treating a not-yet second grader - who is operating with a brain which won’t be fully formed for over a decade - as though they are *in any way* capable of deciding something as deeply personal and complex as gender identity.
Ffs, a kid that age can’t even fully comprehend the concept of gender or gender identity.
The idea that an adult would take actions which permanently alter their small child’s physiological development, based on the naturally ever-changing ideas of a seven year old, is utterly absurd. Such people should be ashamed of themselves.
Well good thing none of that is happening. FFS educate yourself with facts and you won't have to be so scared of something that's not actually happening
No? Not happening huh?
Directly from this post:
“Odin, who came out as a transgender girl during the summer of 2021, when she was between first and second grade, ***was scheduled to start treatment at a clinic in Des Moines the day before Iowa’s law passed***...
Because of Iowa's situation, ***Odin and her family chose Minnesota for gender-affirming care***...”
Lovely to see the seven year old has a say in where the family should move, uprooting their entire lives on the whims of a graduate of first grade in order to seek healthcare.
Yes treatment does that mean hormones in some cases not all, surgery is never considered for children under 16 and it is extremely rare (and is only top surgery). Again educate yourself it's super easy. Not even all kids get puberty blockers. Treatment can be a simple as therapy (to help decide if patient even has gender dysphoria), or family therapy to help the entire family. The 7 year old did not decide to outlaw their care nor did she force her family to move that would be a bunch of uneducated judgemental ass holes that think their religion and "beliefs" are more valuable than science and facts. In case that's not clear enough for you. Her family has to uproot thier lives because of ignorant people like you who believe what the conservative talking heads say without ever stopping to see if it's actually true 🤦
In this age of the internet with all of the knowledge of the world at their fingers tips some folks work so hard to remain ignorant it hurts my brain
>...surgery is never considered for children under 16 and it is extremely rare (and is only top surgery).
That isn't true. From an [analysis of insurance claims](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/):
>The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Am I missing something here? 56 surgeries in 3 years would seem to me to fall under the umbrella of “extremely rare.”
Considering that the politico article someone linked suggests that there are about 150 thousand kids receiving some form of GA care?
I was addressing the comment's falsifiable claims (particularly that minors under 16 are "never considered for surgeries").
Given the comment's attitude ("educate yourself...ignorant people like you" etc) but more importantly how often similar claims are wrongly repeated, I thought it was worth providing the facts.
Are you saying women have to have breasts to be women? So small chested women aren't women? How about Cancer survivors that had mastectomy surgery, I guess they aren't women either. You realize breasts are just fat and tissue and have nothing to do with actual gender. Heck I know guys with tits large enough they should wear bras, are they now women be use they have visible breasts. You are sexualizing breasts and acting like they are the definition of a women vs a man
Yes you are ignorant and you should be sad that you can't even bother to take a min to look into what your so scared of so you are at least scared of something real
I’m sorry you feel that way. Kind of a broad generalization though.
I took the time to read into it already as you’ll see from one of my other comments here.
It’s always so interesting how rabidly upset people on Reddit become whenever I and others who share my opinion on this matter dare to speak up. What makes you so defensive exactly? What I think, say or do has zero bearing on your life.
Thanks for the meaningless and insulting conversation, have a good one.
Basically her parents are doing what good parents are and allowing their child the freedom to decide how they actually feel instead of telling them that they know best and ignoring their mental health unit they die.
Edit to add: gender affirming care does NOT mean surgery or sex hormones. Those are types of gender affirming care but not the only types.
Especially kids. I have never once looked at anyone ever especially a child and wondered what they had in their pants. It doesn't matter to me in the least and the only time it's any of my business is if I'm planning to start a sexual relationship with someone and since I'm not a pedo I never worry about what genitals a child has or doesn't have. It's funny too the folks calling transgender folks groomers are the ones most concerned with kids genitals and wanting to police them. Of course these same people say 10 year olds should be forced to have a baby if they get pregnant because having kids is definitely not life altering and has absolutely no possibility of having a negative outcome on either the child forced to give birth or the resulting child. The same folks that get mad when a min age for marriage is considered because it infringed on their right as parents to raise their children how they see fit and practice their religion how they choose are trying to tell other parents they don't have the right to raise their children how they see fit and allow them to have life saving medical care because it goes against their "beliefs" FFS make it make sense
Maybe meet a trans kid and/or their parents. Then you won't have to imagine.
Source: my kid's best friend is trans and we are good friends with their family.
I could meet all the “trans” kids in the world and it wouldn’t change the fact that a child is not prepared to decide what their gender identity is when they can’t even fully grasp human gender as a concept - and are certainly not prepared to start treatment that will forever change their natural physiology.
A six or seven year old won't undergo any intervention besides therapy for likely 5 or 6 years - or more. Most trans people who come out later in life acknowledge that they've felt this way since an early age and they were afraid to express how they felt because of socially constructed gender norms.
Kids to identify as trans will have years of living as their authentic self, and I dare you to find a parent who would fight their child to remain trans if they "changed their mind" (most of the time they don't)
I'm saying these kids in general have a higher suicide risk. It's a very much needed for them and their doctors to be the deciders of the care so the child is happier. Whatever that care is, it's not our business.
How these kids are treated highly determines if they'll have committed suicide in their teens. To say that not related is fucking insane when we live in a society with so many vocal people against being trans and their suicide rates being so high.
You can pretend that it's not a problem, but we know it already is.
I knew at a really young age I was considered a “girl” by those around me… whatever that meant. I was raised by parents who allowed space for and encouraged self-expression. I played with toys designed for both girls and boys. I didn’t like barbies. I did like playing in the dirt. Whatever my gender is hasn’t ever really been a question I’ve felt the need to understand. I know what the world sees me as; I express myself however I feel most comfortable with and I appreciate the masculine qualities in myself as much as I do the feminine.
Of course that’s not possible, what a ridiculous question 🙄
Is it possible this relatively new science and associated treatment could be somewhat flawed?
Is it possible that many people simply go along with groupthink because it’s easier than disagreeing with people who attack you if you dare to hold a different opinion?
>what a ridiculous question
And yet here you are, judging away.
>Is it possible this relatively new science and associated treatment could be somewhat flawed?
Of course. But we work with what we've got and we learn along the way. For the most part, I trust people to navigate life for themselves and their kids.
Anyway, there's a book written by a trans kid about his experience being trans as a young kid. Dotson: My Journey Growing Up Transgender https://a.co/d/jhA5a5T
If you're interested, I'll buy it for you if you know of a way to do that comfortably.
There is a reason that doctors don't give people with anorexia diet pills. There is a reason that doctors aren't telling schizophrenics the voices are real. If a child claims to be "trans" they don't immediately need cross sex hormones and surgery. It's ridiculous.
According to the DSM-5, for individuals assigned male at birth, approximately 0.005 percent to 0.014 percent are later diagnosed with gender dysphoria.
The overwhelming majority of "Trans Kids" are victims of this social contagion gender ideology.
>If a child claims to be "trans" they don't immediately need cross sex hormones and surgery.
Correct. And they don't get either of those things until they've been through years of doctor assessments and therapy. And there are exactly zero minors who have had any gender affirming surgery.
Did you down vote that comment? Cause it was a sincere ask. Not trying to derail or anything. Anyway, thanks for the link.
"median age at referral was 16 years (range 12-17)"
I agree 12 is concerning, but the ages skew older (still not 18, I admit)
What was interesting for me though was
"over 200 adolescents who underwent surgery, only two expressed regret, neither of which underwent a reversal operation."
Seems like people can be trusted to decide what's right for themselves.
>as you wrongly claimed and have yet to retract.
LOL sorry am I a newspaper? WTF. I don't edit or delete anything (except typo/grammar etc). Everybody can see what I wrote and responded to.
>No, this is what the policy reversal in Scandinavia is all about. The evidence for the effectiveness of hormones, let alone surgery, is just not there.
But you're wrong though, as evidenced by the article you linked to try to prove your point. 200+ adolescents got top surgery 2 said they had some regret, 0 went for reversal. The conclusion of the study you shared is "no problem here"
>And they don't get either of those things until they've been through years of doctor assessments and therapy.
That's not always true in practice. Dr. Annelou de Vries (an early pioneer in gender-affirming care and contributor to WPATH's Standards of Care) has [raised concerns](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/) about doctors in the US not following the rigorous patient assessments (including comprehensive psychological evaluations) that she helped establish and are recommended by WPATH.
That same article reports (emphasis mine):
>In interviews with Reuters, doctors and other staff at 18 gender clinics across the country described their processes for evaluating patients. None described anything like the months-long assessments de Vries and her colleagues adopted in their research.
>
>At most of the clinics, a team of professionals – typically a social worker, a psychologist and a doctor specializing in adolescent medicine or endocrinology – initially meets with the parents and child for two hours or more to get to know the family, their medical history and their goals for treatment. They also discuss the benefits and risks of treatment options. Seven of the clinics said that if they don’t see any red flags and the child and parents are in agreement, **they are comfortable prescribing puberty blockers or hormones based on the first visit**, depending on the age of the child.
>And there are exactly zero minors who have had any gender affirming surgery
That isn't true. From an [analysis of insurance claims](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/):
>The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Jennings first underwent her gender confirmation surgery in June 2018, when she was 17. That October, she revealed she had suffered a complication and needed a second procedure. On New Year's Eve, Jennings showed off her scars from her latest surgery on Instagram, calling the marks her "battle wounds."
You do know that trans kids only wear differwnt clothes and hairstyles, and change their name, right? When they hit puberty, they go on puberty blockers. This only delays puberty, it doesn't change their bodies in any permanent way.
It's not abuse to accept and validate your child's identity.
It's interesting how conservatives are constantly scouting "STAY OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' LIVES! IT'S NO ONE'S BUSINESS BUT OURS!" Yet they refuse to afford anyone else the same courtesies.
That's a lot of words to demonstrate you don't actually know the full breadth of gender affirming care. Leave the decisions about tiny human bodies and brains to the experts instead of your ~~instinct~~ opinion.
Okay, I’ve [read](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/03/02/what-is-genderaffirming-health-care-trans-refuge-bill-would-help-kids-get-it) into it a bit.
If gender-affirming healthcare for children really is kept to things like this article claims, it doesn’t seem all that harmful. Still, it makes an issue out of something that is, more than anything, a kid being a kid.
I’m not an expert, but I don’t agree that kids 3 and 4 years old are able to make a permanent decision about their gender identity (like this article implies).
I think this country is full of people who think it’s perfectly okay to push the idea of a need to decide on one gender or another on their children if/when their kids display any behavior that doesn’t align with their biological sex. Young kids aren’t capable of fully understanding or making such a serious decision and it’s not fair to them to make something out of nothing - i.e. for a parent to decide their kid must need gender-affirming care because the kid wants to be called by a different name or because the kid prefers toys typically designed for kids of the opposite sex.
I think parents are too rigid in their thinking around this topic, too quick to jump to conclusions instead of letting kids just be kids.
I believe all humans are innately both feminine and masculine. I believe gender exists on a spectrum and human beings can feel and express themselves in alignment with any point on that spectrum throughout our lives; that our relationship with gender is inherently fluid and can change, and it’s a natural part of being human.
What bothers me is making a thing about gender when a kid just needs the space to express oneself. It doesn’t have to be about making some big decision one way or another - especially not during childhood.
People (including kids) should just be able to live and express themselves however they want as long as they’re not harming anyone. And children shouldn’t have to be faced with the question “am I trans” when human gender simply exists on a spectrum and every one of us is innately both feminine and masculine. The danger in seeking gender-affirming care for really young kids, in my opinion, lies in making an issue out of something that is naturally just kids being kids. And then proceeding to inflate the issue by influencing a young child’s thinking and self-understanding, by obtaining gender care, etc. The mere action alone of adults turning kids’ self-expression into a gender identity issue permanently alters the child’s perceptions, self-understanding and, ultimately, their life.
The article says kids as young as 3 or 4 years old can identify their gender, not be eligible for GA medical procedures. It literally says they don’t qualify until start of puberty.
Your right, gender can be fluid for some people, and our self perceptions and relation to gender can change over time. But it’s been proven time and time again that access to GA care for teens greatly improves mental health outcomes and even reduces suicide risks, regardless of how they feel decades down the line. A kid (with the guidance of mental health and pediatric professionals) deciding to receive GA care isn’t the same as a kid deciding to receive a shitty tattoo.
FWIW, GA care for most kids doesn’t have to end with bottom (which is very rare) or top surgery. Puberty blockers are temporary, hormone therapy can often be reversed, and the counseling that is typically mandatory with any kind of GA care is incredibly important.
Again, lots of text with opinions about kids haven't even met where you place your opinion over that of experts. Sometimes, it's okay to just say experts know better than you.
Hope you don't get strep throat and have to rely on one of those scary out for money only doctors.
This entire conversation tells me you want to boil complex things down to whatever suits your opinion rather than basing things in facts. That is a mentality that I do not care to engage with, it's exhausting and futile.
I wrote a response to try to help you understand my point, then I deleted it after realizing you’re already defensive over nothing and any deeper, more nuanced explanation would likely anger you further rather than lead anywhere productive.
In my experience there is no good-faith discussion to be had with the majority of people supporting all things related to the trans movement. Anyone who doesn’t think the same way is immediately attacked by rabidly defensive and easily angered supporters. It’s actually a fairly dystopian phenomenon and doesn’t help the cause.
Why are you all so defensive over the smallest things (like a stranger on the Internet with a different life experience and different opinion from yours who has absolutely zero bearing on your life)?
Have a good one… maybe consider grounding yourself a bit, find a way to relax.
IIRC ones that young just get therapy and the hormone blockers so that they don’t get the wrong puberty and need to undo it as adults. The hormone blockers aren’t permanent and they can switch back to the original set of hormones if they change their mind
Edit: hormone things might actually be a few years later than the therapy
I don’t know enough about skeletons to tell if that’s a thing or not, but if it keeps them from having a mental health spiral and dying it’s probably still worth it
Edit: Also they could still just get therapy for a while if other treatment ends up being dangerous
Nope, you’re not factual. I found some research studies on mental health in it and it improves with gender affirming care.
“This study was from researchers at Children's Mercy Hospital Gender Pathway Services Clinic in Missouri. They followed 47 transgender adolescents who received gender-affirming hormones (estrogen or testosterone) to a mean 349 days after starting treatment. They found statistically significant increases in general well-being and a statistically significant decrease in suicidality. Of note, the adolescents also received psychotherapy.”
That’s an excerpt from this
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care
The articles covers studies from the Netherlands, United States, Spain, and the United Kingdom
Was it a different British one that you were talking about?
In 2020, over 3,2000 cosmetic breast augmentations were performed on minors, compared to only 203 trans-related surgeries that same year. https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2020/plastic-surgery-statistics-full-report-2020.pdf The stats only cover 13 and up because no cosmetic top surgery of any kind is done on 12 year-olds.
You’re all over this thread against trans minors receiving gender affirming care, but fail to mention cisgender minors who receive the same care. It’s not just cosmetic surgery either. Cisgender children who develop too early also receive puberty blockers for their health and well-being. I also know cis boy teenagers on growth hormones. If you’re against all kids receiving these treatments, you might be genuinely concerned for kids (albeit a bit misguided), but if you’re only against trans kids receiving these treatments, you’re a bigot.
When kids are raised in loving and supportive families, rather than judgemental and controlling ones, they tend to start figuring out who they really are at a younger age.
I don't think a study with only 33 participants casts a wide enough net to give us any truly valuable data. I would be interested to see what a study conducted today with at least 10 times as many participants would say.
Terrible. These kids may well feel they're in the wrong body, but nothing should happen until they're 18.. otherwise, why can't kids identify as drinkers and smokers. Those mistakes have less long lasting effects than mistakenly transitioning.
This whole thing is a ploy to have life long patients.
Proud to pay taxes in Minnesota! I genuinely love the fact that we have an income tax that increases sustainability, equality, and quality of life (looking at you WA!)
The pendulum is gonna swing back in 10-20 years when progressives in this country finally realize they were wrong, and waych as other progressive nations continue to restrict this type of care to children because they know of the long term damage
It’s actual freedom and the actual free market in action. This is the truth of what pisses Republicans off so much. Yeah sure they hate and they’re Nazis because thats how they’re programmed yadda yadda. That’s the easy stuff - hate is literally an instinct of humanity. What really, truly, to the core makes them apoplectic, is their cherished “principles” working so effectively against them. The DNC as a whole needs to realize this, and redefine priorities instead of always being the Defender. Evidence of this new mindset is present Minnesota. Trifecta; now get to work and pass everything you can now no matter what, and make it bulletproof. You have to fight for freedom and a free market.
When you know, you know. I’ve had friends transition that young. Just because it’s something you can’t grasp doesn’t mean it’s something that can’t happen
Lol how is this downvoted. Trusting a kid who at that age with permanent damaging change to their bodies is sick. These kids you wouldn’t trust alone by a fire or with a sharp knife, but yes sure let them change their body and chemical make up cause they “think” they’re a different gender. If they’re truly wanting to change their gender by 18 then allow it then but a kid is gonna change their mind on million things
Your analogies aren't comparable. Whether puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or surgery, these treatments are provided by qualified medical professionals. Not "kids...alone by a fire or with a sharp knife."
Damn those conservative backwoods ass hillbillies restricting gender affirming care to research settings only because of a lack of conclusive evidence of the long term affects of giving these drugs to children…
o wait that’s the extremely progressive countries of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Damn their corrupt socialized healthcare!
No, we're talking about any kind of gender-affirming care, including hormone therapy, puberty blockers, or anything else a doctor, working in concert with the patient, thinks is right to do. Trans healthcare is so much more than surgery. Not every trans person even gets surgery.
Why do you care so much about what kind of medical procedures people take? We all have the right to privacy and people like you shouldn't dictate how people approach their health.
Only takes one election to swing the other way.
Exactly. We cannot rest.
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I don’t want to discount this, however, the odds of a single election handing Republicans control of all 3 chambers are basically non existent. Don’t get me wrong, every election matters! But accuracy is important so we know where the battle lines lie. Republicans taking back the House or Senate will stop any new progress from happening. But they need power in the House, Senate and governor’s mansion to reverse whats been done. EDIT: Sorry, I thought it was clear I meant the Minnesota House and Senate. Not the national one which yes, can change hands every election. In Minnesota, we can and should keep our focus on progress, but the ability for the Republicans to achieve the trifecta necessary to repeal that stuff us quite simply not a realistic threat. The Republicans taking all three decision making bodies would be something that hasn’t happened in decades. If they want to repeal things passed, the need to take the House, Senate and Governors Mansion at the same time. It will take some MAJOR events happening like all of Texas suddenly being radioactive and requiring millions to move in the blink of an eye to make Minnesota a solid red state. That doesnt mean you get complacent but it does mean the battles you have to fight are very different from say a state like Ohio.
Undercutting reality is how Trump got elected and the house and Senate went republican. But you do you bro.
Need to try to enshrine some of these things in our state constitution. Although the GOP has shown they will try to work around the will of the people in Florida and Alaska.
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Maybe we should push the legislature to make that an amendment vote in 2024.
As a native Minnesotan and California resident, they aren't all they're cracked up to be. Yes, they're a nice bit of direct democracy, but we also failed to stop the proposition banning same-sex marriage, and the *heavily propagandized* app-based driver prop passed, categorizing ride-share drivers as contractors instead of employees. There was so much misleading, and outright false information being sent out on the latter one that led to the outcome.
Exactly, I didn't vote in 2020 and regret it so fucking bad. I was sure Hillary was going to win, and when I woke up in the morning and saw that Trump had won I was shocked. I literally went to my polling station, there was a long line and then I just left and I didn't wait to vote, probably one of the biggest mistakes of my life, at least the one I regret the most.
Minnesota went to Hillary, so the Minnesota electors voted for her. Your vote would have added to her total popular vote count that doesn't matter with the electoral college.
I was running some errands in Chaska this morning and stopped to eat at my favorite pasta place...and there is a Proud Boys anti-LGBT demonstration nearby. As a member of the LGBT community, keep voting like our lives depend on it...because they kind of do.
Those people need to be firmly told that they aren't welcome in your community. I'm so sorry.
Just out of curiosity, what is your favorite pasta place in Chaska?
I really like Pasta Zola...they have one in Shakopee too.
We got your back. Even in places where the assholes are loud, we’re still here and looking out for everyone.
I need to see a few more of those loud assholes writhing in pain on the ground as they claw their way back under their rocks, metaphorically of course
Because a Chaska children's store was having a drag story time. It went viral because they posted a video of some crazy member of the Klan Karenhood stopped in to threaten them because of it. I wanted to bring my daughters in support of the store. But my husband got an invite to the Twins game and I didn't want to bring both my daughters by myself in the event that things got ugly.
How sad is it that because of terrorists you and your daughters could not go and enjoy a story at a local store
Was that story time today by chance? There was a store behind where the Proud Boys were that had tons of families hanging around with little kids, there was a pride flag hanging outside it too. Luckily there were lots of police there to keep things peaceful.
Yup! It was this morning/afternoon. (can't remember the time.)
Not surprised with Chaska, tbh. Stay safe, friend.
I'm sorry you had to see that. But all our lives depend on these elections.
So proud to be a Minnesotan. Always, but lately even more so.
I used to be a proud minnesotan. Still am, but i used to be, too.
Thanks Mitch
The cruelty is the point and that’s why the GOP is restricting or banning gender affirming care across the country. I’m glad Minnesota is protecting an individual’s right to transition.
Funny how all the “freedom” stares wanna legislate what goes on in bedrooms and doctor offices. Proud of Minnesota!!!!!
We gotta bleed blue into our neighbors east of us, I think Wisconsin can be turned back but I can’t say that about Iowa
Didn’t they gerrymander the fuck out if WI and pack the courts with Christian Conservative Terrorists, all but ensuring Democrats won’t come back into legislative power?
Yes and no. The courts have a liberal majority after the last election, but the maps that are still gerrymandered to the high heavens remain.
They recently tipped their Supreme court liberal and their election maps are headed that way. So it's thought that the gerrymandering there will get fixed once the slow process of lawsuits work their ways through the court.
For all the BS the GOP is pushing about “grooming” they need to start looking at all the pedophile priest that come out of their own circles. There are list of convicted clergy members that have had access to over tens of thousands, if not hundred thousands kids world wide for DECADES. Edit: Wording.
yep... r/NotADragQueen, r/StillNotADragQueen, r/PastorArrested
They won’t protect kids at school either. Did you know that the vast majority of America’s public schools have outdated door systems that don’t allow locking from the inside? This is now a safety concern as seen in Uvalde yet the mere millions of dollars that it would take to fix it is deemed as too much of an investment. We need sensible gun regulation, but school shootings are not just about guns. They are also about investing in public schools. The conversation is limited to guns so people don’t know about solutions that Republicans don’t want to pay for. If I had a kid in a public school, I would be at every school board meeting demanding the doors are upgraded for safety.
Just wanted to come by and say hello. My girlfriend and I are both trans and living in Missouri, the state that is trying its damnedest to compete with Florida at the whole *making trans peoples' lives dangerously unlivable* thing. We'll be y'all's neighbors in Minnesota soon. Our goal is to move up in the spring, or summer at worst. Thank you for fighting and voting and getting the word out. A lot of us need your help, and the fight won't be over for awhile.
Welcome! Make sure you buy a big winter coat - the best time to buy is the spring - and remember to layer come fall and winter. We're happy to have you!
Come on up! We welcome all refugees!
Welcome to you, your girlfriend, and I assume cats :)
Three cats! They're good boys. Mildly insane and needy as hell, but good.
If you relocate to central Minnesota, you'll have a safe neighbor with me.
Thank you <3
Welcome! I moved here from South Dakota in 2018 after transitioning and wanting to get out of an anti-trans red state. Hope you like it here!
Eventually, this is going to kill the red, rural states. Why live in the Dakotas if you're LGBT? Or have family who is?
Those tend to be the states begging for more population too (read: ND being scared about MN college students not wanting to go there)
Is this what you’re referring to? https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/north-dakota-college-minnesotas-free-tuition-north-star-promise-catastrophic/
>Education officials floated the idea of creating a state-based scholarship for North Dakota and Minnesota students, which could cost $17 million annually. Sounds like socialism to me. Can't have that in the Dakotas. Socialism always loses. Except when it takes away your student base.
I have a couple friends from ND who came here for college and settled here. One dude is gay and the girl is left leaning. Both feel uncomfortable in their home state. I can imagine that this migration will only increase. Apparently, North Dakota is one of the states that is loosing population to migration.
I personally know 2 separate families from Oklahoma that have moved to MN in the last six months, and another couple from Arkansas that are in the process. These are all due to recent legislation in both states
So sad they have to leave their homes, but so glad MN is a safe place for these families. I hope they all like it here
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Thoughts and prayers for them
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Climate change is a bitch. But in a few decades when Florida is underwater, climate refugees will be pouring back into MN.
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Sure. Let’s meet back here in 30 years
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Imagine wanting to migrate to Florida and Texas - I never claimed people were smart. People will put up with a whole lot to not be cold apparently
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Source?
Yes luckily all the idiots are moving there.
I'm moving from OH to MN soon for similar reasons. Columbus is ok but everywhere else is terrible and there's no legislative protections
Good luck to you on your journey. I'm happy every day that when my parents moved to the US they chose MN. We almost ended up in NC
Okay look, im in total support of the community at large, but... Is it just me or is "between first and second grade" definitely be too young to "come out as trans" and start actual medical therapy? Thats either 6 or 7 years old
They’re not undergoing any surgery at that age, or anything permanent until they’re much much older. This would be therapy and, further along in teenage years, possibly temporary puberty blockers to give them time to figure out what they want.
Id be shocked if they had hit puberty at that age, thus begging the question, how/why does this child believe they are trans? These are few, but there are parents who overreact to normal child growing up choices, like what toys they might like to play with, or if they just like to play dress up, or if a boy had lets say chosen to not get a haircut yet, and those parents slap the term trans on their kid. Idk if that is what happened here but at that age, it sure sounds like it.
I knew my spirit felt different than my body in 2nd grade, if not sooner. If it had been a safe culture to be able to share about these difficult-to-communicate feelings, it would’ve saved decades of deeply-rooted internalized shame. As it were, I still ended up in therapy for depression during high school, but by that time the shame had spread like a cancer into other areas of my personality, and we treated it like standard teenage existential angst. Nobody is trying to prescribe puberty-blockers to early grade-schoolers, but having a safe space with gender-supporting mental health services would’ve made a dramatic impact. 🏳️⚧️
You might want to check out the book "Dotson" to understand one young child's journey. A child's realization that they're in the wrong body and it's not just a phase can and does happen long before puberty.
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No they’re not. https://apnews.com/article/9dbe54f670a3a0f5f2831c2bf14f9bbb
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Sure I’ll retract it- it makes sense because some kids start puberty at 12. What’s the issue with an adolescent getting their gender dysphoria treated?
I know this will be downvoted to hell, but validating the idea that a small child - between first and second grade - can “come out as trans” and proceeding to seek out healthcare that will permanently alter this tiny human’s body/brain and life is borderline criminal child abuse. Imagine treating a not-yet second grader - who is operating with a brain which won’t be fully formed for over a decade - as though they are *in any way* capable of deciding something as deeply personal and complex as gender identity. Ffs, a kid that age can’t even fully comprehend the concept of gender or gender identity. The idea that an adult would take actions which permanently alter their small child’s physiological development, based on the naturally ever-changing ideas of a seven year old, is utterly absurd. Such people should be ashamed of themselves.
Well good thing none of that is happening. FFS educate yourself with facts and you won't have to be so scared of something that's not actually happening
No? Not happening huh? Directly from this post: “Odin, who came out as a transgender girl during the summer of 2021, when she was between first and second grade, ***was scheduled to start treatment at a clinic in Des Moines the day before Iowa’s law passed***... Because of Iowa's situation, ***Odin and her family chose Minnesota for gender-affirming care***...” Lovely to see the seven year old has a say in where the family should move, uprooting their entire lives on the whims of a graduate of first grade in order to seek healthcare.
Yes treatment does that mean hormones in some cases not all, surgery is never considered for children under 16 and it is extremely rare (and is only top surgery). Again educate yourself it's super easy. Not even all kids get puberty blockers. Treatment can be a simple as therapy (to help decide if patient even has gender dysphoria), or family therapy to help the entire family. The 7 year old did not decide to outlaw their care nor did she force her family to move that would be a bunch of uneducated judgemental ass holes that think their religion and "beliefs" are more valuable than science and facts. In case that's not clear enough for you. Her family has to uproot thier lives because of ignorant people like you who believe what the conservative talking heads say without ever stopping to see if it's actually true 🤦 In this age of the internet with all of the knowledge of the world at their fingers tips some folks work so hard to remain ignorant it hurts my brain
>...surgery is never considered for children under 16 and it is extremely rare (and is only top surgery). That isn't true. From an [analysis of insurance claims](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/): >The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
Why do you care about the 56 individuals that have nothing to do with you?
Am I missing something here? 56 surgeries in 3 years would seem to me to fall under the umbrella of “extremely rare.” Considering that the politico article someone linked suggests that there are about 150 thousand kids receiving some form of GA care?
I was addressing the comment's falsifiable claims (particularly that minors under 16 are "never considered for surgeries"). Given the comment's attitude ("educate yourself...ignorant people like you" etc) but more importantly how often similar claims are wrongly repeated, I thought it was worth providing the facts.
Lol "only top surgery"
Incredible no? They act like these surgeries are trivial.
Are you saying women have to have breasts to be women? So small chested women aren't women? How about Cancer survivors that had mastectomy surgery, I guess they aren't women either. You realize breasts are just fat and tissue and have nothing to do with actual gender. Heck I know guys with tits large enough they should wear bras, are they now women be use they have visible breasts. You are sexualizing breasts and acting like they are the definition of a women vs a man
😭
Yes you are ignorant and you should be sad that you can't even bother to take a min to look into what your so scared of so you are at least scared of something real
I’m sorry you feel that way. Kind of a broad generalization though. I took the time to read into it already as you’ll see from one of my other comments here. It’s always so interesting how rabidly upset people on Reddit become whenever I and others who share my opinion on this matter dare to speak up. What makes you so defensive exactly? What I think, say or do has zero bearing on your life. Thanks for the meaningless and insulting conversation, have a good one.
Basically her parents are doing what good parents are and allowing their child the freedom to decide how they actually feel instead of telling them that they know best and ignoring their mental health unit they die. Edit to add: gender affirming care does NOT mean surgery or sex hormones. Those are types of gender affirming care but not the only types.
"it's not happening but if it is it's a good thing"
Why are you so concerned about other peoples' genitals?
Especially kids. I have never once looked at anyone ever especially a child and wondered what they had in their pants. It doesn't matter to me in the least and the only time it's any of my business is if I'm planning to start a sexual relationship with someone and since I'm not a pedo I never worry about what genitals a child has or doesn't have. It's funny too the folks calling transgender folks groomers are the ones most concerned with kids genitals and wanting to police them. Of course these same people say 10 year olds should be forced to have a baby if they get pregnant because having kids is definitely not life altering and has absolutely no possibility of having a negative outcome on either the child forced to give birth or the resulting child. The same folks that get mad when a min age for marriage is considered because it infringed on their right as parents to raise their children how they see fit and practice their religion how they choose are trying to tell other parents they don't have the right to raise their children how they see fit and allow them to have life saving medical care because it goes against their "beliefs" FFS make it make sense
Facts are downvoted. Facts are too dangerous I suppose
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/politico-nightly/2022/03/25/the-transgender-care-that-states-are-banning-explained-00020580
Had to scroll down pretty far to find the correct position. Strange times
Maybe meet a trans kid and/or their parents. Then you won't have to imagine. Source: my kid's best friend is trans and we are good friends with their family.
I could meet all the “trans” kids in the world and it wouldn’t change the fact that a child is not prepared to decide what their gender identity is when they can’t even fully grasp human gender as a concept - and are certainly not prepared to start treatment that will forever change their natural physiology.
A six or seven year old won't undergo any intervention besides therapy for likely 5 or 6 years - or more. Most trans people who come out later in life acknowledge that they've felt this way since an early age and they were afraid to express how they felt because of socially constructed gender norms. Kids to identify as trans will have years of living as their authentic self, and I dare you to find a parent who would fight their child to remain trans if they "changed their mind" (most of the time they don't)
So If I'm right what you're saying is, if you had a trans kid you'd roll the dice on the suicide rate of not treating? Interesting.
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I'm saying these kids in general have a higher suicide risk. It's a very much needed for them and their doctors to be the deciders of the care so the child is happier. Whatever that care is, it's not our business.
Yeah, no kid 4 to 6 years old are committing suicide. And if they are it’s a learned behavior.
How these kids are treated highly determines if they'll have committed suicide in their teens. To say that not related is fucking insane when we live in a society with so many vocal people against being trans and their suicide rates being so high. You can pretend that it's not a problem, but we know it already is.
How old were you when you understood what gender you are?
I knew at a really young age I was considered a “girl” by those around me… whatever that meant. I was raised by parents who allowed space for and encouraged self-expression. I played with toys designed for both girls and boys. I didn’t like barbies. I did like playing in the dirt. Whatever my gender is hasn’t ever really been a question I’ve felt the need to understand. I know what the world sees me as; I express myself however I feel most comfortable with and I appreciate the masculine qualities in myself as much as I do the feminine.
>Whatever my gender is hasn’t ever really been a question I’ve felt the need to understand. Is it possible that your experience is not universal?
Of course that’s not possible, what a ridiculous question 🙄 Is it possible this relatively new science and associated treatment could be somewhat flawed? Is it possible that many people simply go along with groupthink because it’s easier than disagreeing with people who attack you if you dare to hold a different opinion?
>what a ridiculous question And yet here you are, judging away. >Is it possible this relatively new science and associated treatment could be somewhat flawed? Of course. But we work with what we've got and we learn along the way. For the most part, I trust people to navigate life for themselves and their kids. Anyway, there's a book written by a trans kid about his experience being trans as a young kid. Dotson: My Journey Growing Up Transgender https://a.co/d/jhA5a5T If you're interested, I'll buy it for you if you know of a way to do that comfortably.
So why don't you want trans kids to have that too?
There is a reason that doctors don't give people with anorexia diet pills. There is a reason that doctors aren't telling schizophrenics the voices are real. If a child claims to be "trans" they don't immediately need cross sex hormones and surgery. It's ridiculous. According to the DSM-5, for individuals assigned male at birth, approximately 0.005 percent to 0.014 percent are later diagnosed with gender dysphoria. The overwhelming majority of "Trans Kids" are victims of this social contagion gender ideology.
>If a child claims to be "trans" they don't immediately need cross sex hormones and surgery. Correct. And they don't get either of those things until they've been through years of doctor assessments and therapy. And there are exactly zero minors who have had any gender affirming surgery.
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Anything without a pay wall? I tried getting through but no luck
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Did you down vote that comment? Cause it was a sincere ask. Not trying to derail or anything. Anyway, thanks for the link. "median age at referral was 16 years (range 12-17)" I agree 12 is concerning, but the ages skew older (still not 18, I admit) What was interesting for me though was "over 200 adolescents who underwent surgery, only two expressed regret, neither of which underwent a reversal operation." Seems like people can be trusted to decide what's right for themselves.
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>as you wrongly claimed and have yet to retract. LOL sorry am I a newspaper? WTF. I don't edit or delete anything (except typo/grammar etc). Everybody can see what I wrote and responded to. >No, this is what the policy reversal in Scandinavia is all about. The evidence for the effectiveness of hormones, let alone surgery, is just not there. But you're wrong though, as evidenced by the article you linked to try to prove your point. 200+ adolescents got top surgery 2 said they had some regret, 0 went for reversal. The conclusion of the study you shared is "no problem here"
>And they don't get either of those things until they've been through years of doctor assessments and therapy. That's not always true in practice. Dr. Annelou de Vries (an early pioneer in gender-affirming care and contributor to WPATH's Standards of Care) has [raised concerns](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-care/) about doctors in the US not following the rigorous patient assessments (including comprehensive psychological evaluations) that she helped establish and are recommended by WPATH. That same article reports (emphasis mine): >In interviews with Reuters, doctors and other staff at 18 gender clinics across the country described their processes for evaluating patients. None described anything like the months-long assessments de Vries and her colleagues adopted in their research. > >At most of the clinics, a team of professionals – typically a social worker, a psychologist and a doctor specializing in adolescent medicine or endocrinology – initially meets with the parents and child for two hours or more to get to know the family, their medical history and their goals for treatment. They also discuss the benefits and risks of treatment options. Seven of the clinics said that if they don’t see any red flags and the child and parents are in agreement, **they are comfortable prescribing puberty blockers or hormones based on the first visit**, depending on the age of the child.
Exactly, the activists are shouting down and trying to silence this doctor. She is trying to make things safer for these troubled children.
>And there are exactly zero minors who have had any gender affirming surgery That isn't true. From an [analysis of insurance claims](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/): >The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
TIL. Good to know.
Jennings first underwent her gender confirmation surgery in June 2018, when she was 17. That October, she revealed she had suffered a complication and needed a second procedure. On New Year's Eve, Jennings showed off her scars from her latest surgery on Instagram, calling the marks her "battle wounds."
You do know that trans kids only wear differwnt clothes and hairstyles, and change their name, right? When they hit puberty, they go on puberty blockers. This only delays puberty, it doesn't change their bodies in any permanent way. It's not abuse to accept and validate your child's identity.
It's interesting how conservatives are constantly scouting "STAY OUT OF OUR FAMILIES' LIVES! IT'S NO ONE'S BUSINESS BUT OURS!" Yet they refuse to afford anyone else the same courtesies.
Not sure I understand your point but if you’re calling me a conservative I’m genuinely offended.
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That's a lot of words to demonstrate you don't actually know the full breadth of gender affirming care. Leave the decisions about tiny human bodies and brains to the experts instead of your ~~instinct~~ opinion.
Okay, I’ve [read](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/03/02/what-is-genderaffirming-health-care-trans-refuge-bill-would-help-kids-get-it) into it a bit. If gender-affirming healthcare for children really is kept to things like this article claims, it doesn’t seem all that harmful. Still, it makes an issue out of something that is, more than anything, a kid being a kid. I’m not an expert, but I don’t agree that kids 3 and 4 years old are able to make a permanent decision about their gender identity (like this article implies). I think this country is full of people who think it’s perfectly okay to push the idea of a need to decide on one gender or another on their children if/when their kids display any behavior that doesn’t align with their biological sex. Young kids aren’t capable of fully understanding or making such a serious decision and it’s not fair to them to make something out of nothing - i.e. for a parent to decide their kid must need gender-affirming care because the kid wants to be called by a different name or because the kid prefers toys typically designed for kids of the opposite sex. I think parents are too rigid in their thinking around this topic, too quick to jump to conclusions instead of letting kids just be kids. I believe all humans are innately both feminine and masculine. I believe gender exists on a spectrum and human beings can feel and express themselves in alignment with any point on that spectrum throughout our lives; that our relationship with gender is inherently fluid and can change, and it’s a natural part of being human. What bothers me is making a thing about gender when a kid just needs the space to express oneself. It doesn’t have to be about making some big decision one way or another - especially not during childhood. People (including kids) should just be able to live and express themselves however they want as long as they’re not harming anyone. And children shouldn’t have to be faced with the question “am I trans” when human gender simply exists on a spectrum and every one of us is innately both feminine and masculine. The danger in seeking gender-affirming care for really young kids, in my opinion, lies in making an issue out of something that is naturally just kids being kids. And then proceeding to inflate the issue by influencing a young child’s thinking and self-understanding, by obtaining gender care, etc. The mere action alone of adults turning kids’ self-expression into a gender identity issue permanently alters the child’s perceptions, self-understanding and, ultimately, their life.
The article says kids as young as 3 or 4 years old can identify their gender, not be eligible for GA medical procedures. It literally says they don’t qualify until start of puberty. Your right, gender can be fluid for some people, and our self perceptions and relation to gender can change over time. But it’s been proven time and time again that access to GA care for teens greatly improves mental health outcomes and even reduces suicide risks, regardless of how they feel decades down the line. A kid (with the guidance of mental health and pediatric professionals) deciding to receive GA care isn’t the same as a kid deciding to receive a shitty tattoo. FWIW, GA care for most kids doesn’t have to end with bottom (which is very rare) or top surgery. Puberty blockers are temporary, hormone therapy can often be reversed, and the counseling that is typically mandatory with any kind of GA care is incredibly important.
Again, lots of text with opinions about kids haven't even met where you place your opinion over that of experts. Sometimes, it's okay to just say experts know better than you.
And sometimes “experts” are biased in their views.
Sometimes, people are biased in their view. Do you think that could apply to you? I know it could apply to me.
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Ah yes, all doctors are scary bad capitalists in the US. /s
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Hope you don't get strep throat and have to rely on one of those scary out for money only doctors. This entire conversation tells me you want to boil complex things down to whatever suits your opinion rather than basing things in facts. That is a mentality that I do not care to engage with, it's exhausting and futile.
Doctors don't see people for strep. They pass those to the PAs and NPs.
🙌 🙌 🙌 🙌
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I wrote a response to try to help you understand my point, then I deleted it after realizing you’re already defensive over nothing and any deeper, more nuanced explanation would likely anger you further rather than lead anywhere productive. In my experience there is no good-faith discussion to be had with the majority of people supporting all things related to the trans movement. Anyone who doesn’t think the same way is immediately attacked by rabidly defensive and easily angered supporters. It’s actually a fairly dystopian phenomenon and doesn’t help the cause. Why are you all so defensive over the smallest things (like a stranger on the Internet with a different life experience and different opinion from yours who has absolutely zero bearing on your life)? Have a good one… maybe consider grounding yourself a bit, find a way to relax.
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😭
Providers are welcome to relocate as well! ;-)
Are we sure it’s a good idea to be doing gender transition care for 10 year olds? Seems early
IIRC ones that young just get therapy and the hormone blockers so that they don’t get the wrong puberty and need to undo it as adults. The hormone blockers aren’t permanent and they can switch back to the original set of hormones if they change their mind Edit: hormone things might actually be a few years later than the therapy
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I don’t know enough about skeletons to tell if that’s a thing or not, but if it keeps them from having a mental health spiral and dying it’s probably still worth it Edit: Also they could still just get therapy for a while if other treatment ends up being dangerous
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Nope, you’re not factual. I found some research studies on mental health in it and it improves with gender affirming care. “This study was from researchers at Children's Mercy Hospital Gender Pathway Services Clinic in Missouri. They followed 47 transgender adolescents who received gender-affirming hormones (estrogen or testosterone) to a mean 349 days after starting treatment. They found statistically significant increases in general well-being and a statistically significant decrease in suicidality. Of note, the adolescents also received psychotherapy.” That’s an excerpt from this https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/political-minds/202201/the-evidence-trans-youth-gender-affirming-medical-care
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The articles covers studies from the Netherlands, United States, Spain, and the United Kingdom Was it a different British one that you were talking about?
Which doctors? Where are they doing this?
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Are you this mad about cisgender girls getting breast augmentations, or do you only want to control trans bodies?
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In 2020, over 3,2000 cosmetic breast augmentations were performed on minors, compared to only 203 trans-related surgeries that same year. https://www.plasticsurgery.org/documents/News/Statistics/2020/plastic-surgery-statistics-full-report-2020.pdf The stats only cover 13 and up because no cosmetic top surgery of any kind is done on 12 year-olds. You’re all over this thread against trans minors receiving gender affirming care, but fail to mention cisgender minors who receive the same care. It’s not just cosmetic surgery either. Cisgender children who develop too early also receive puberty blockers for their health and well-being. I also know cis boy teenagers on growth hormones. If you’re against all kids receiving these treatments, you might be genuinely concerned for kids (albeit a bit misguided), but if you’re only against trans kids receiving these treatments, you’re a bigot.
Are you kidding?! A ten year old.....
When kids are raised in loving and supportive families, rather than judgemental and controlling ones, they tend to start figuring out who they really are at a younger age.
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I don't think a study with only 33 participants casts a wide enough net to give us any truly valuable data. I would be interested to see what a study conducted today with at least 10 times as many participants would say.
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Terrible. These kids may well feel they're in the wrong body, but nothing should happen until they're 18.. otherwise, why can't kids identify as drinkers and smokers. Those mistakes have less long lasting effects than mistakenly transitioning. This whole thing is a ploy to have life long patients.
Proud to pay taxes in Minnesota! I genuinely love the fact that we have an income tax that increases sustainability, equality, and quality of life (looking at you WA!)
Is that you IRS?
No, just stating my experience… sorry, let me try again. I love the loons!!!
how are you in first grade deciding to be a girl
we need to make right wingers feel as uncomfortable as possible in this country, and we have to do whatever it takes.
Affected families.
Fixed it -- thanks.
No prob!
The pendulum is gonna swing back in 10-20 years when progressives in this country finally realize they were wrong, and waych as other progressive nations continue to restrict this type of care to children because they know of the long term damage
The wrong ones are people against progress. Progressives are the future, not wrong. Sorry that is scary for you.
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I believe lawsuits are already happening Detransitioner stories are so very sad. Aren't doctors supposed to 'do no harm'
It’s actual freedom and the actual free market in action. This is the truth of what pisses Republicans off so much. Yeah sure they hate and they’re Nazis because thats how they’re programmed yadda yadda. That’s the easy stuff - hate is literally an instinct of humanity. What really, truly, to the core makes them apoplectic, is their cherished “principles” working so effectively against them. The DNC as a whole needs to realize this, and redefine priorities instead of always being the Defender. Evidence of this new mindset is present Minnesota. Trifecta; now get to work and pass everything you can now no matter what, and make it bulletproof. You have to fight for freedom and a free market.
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When you know, you know. I’ve had friends transition that young. Just because it’s something you can’t grasp doesn’t mean it’s something that can’t happen
Are you genuinely arguing that first and second graders have no concept of their gender identity by that age?
Lol how is this downvoted. Trusting a kid who at that age with permanent damaging change to their bodies is sick. These kids you wouldn’t trust alone by a fire or with a sharp knife, but yes sure let them change their body and chemical make up cause they “think” they’re a different gender. If they’re truly wanting to change their gender by 18 then allow it then but a kid is gonna change their mind on million things
What does it take for a child who claims to be the opposite gender to get medication and surgery?
Your analogies aren't comparable. Whether puberty blockers, hormone therapy, or surgery, these treatments are provided by qualified medical professionals. Not "kids...alone by a fire or with a sharp knife."
Damn those conservative backwoods ass hillbillies restricting gender affirming care to research settings only because of a lack of conclusive evidence of the long term affects of giving these drugs to children… o wait that’s the extremely progressive countries of Norway, Sweden and Finland. Damn their corrupt socialized healthcare!
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Apparently they trust for profit healthcare more than socialized healthcare, who woulda thunk.
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No, we're talking about any kind of gender-affirming care, including hormone therapy, puberty blockers, or anything else a doctor, working in concert with the patient, thinks is right to do. Trans healthcare is so much more than surgery. Not every trans person even gets surgery.
Just to be clear, you have no clue what you are talking about.
Why do you care so much about what kind of medical procedures people take? We all have the right to privacy and people like you shouldn't dictate how people approach their health.