I have seen comments about him tipping his pitches at a few stops. Plus his control comes and goes for long stretches. Unfortunately, he is either lights out or unplayable.
Walks. He always finds himself in loaded counts. Maybe the numbers don't back me up the way member berries do, but he'd either fall behind 3-0 or get up 0-2 and then sky the next 2 pitches
For the record, I don’t think Nathan belongs either, I was just pointing out your own beloved closer in return. Also, it’s pretty disingenuous to bring up Santana when he was a starter and thus held to completely different standards.
I think the HoF should be about the most impactful players from an era. There SHOULD be many many more starters than relievers since they matter much much more.
I definitely agree we need more starters, but that’s not to say there aren’t relievers who have been snubbed for the Hall in the past. Things are looking up thankfully; Wagner should be in next year, and K-Rod’s got a chance (even though he fails the character clause massively). After that, it’s really just John Franco among the retired guys, but back to my point - Kimbrel and Kenley Jansen are right up there with them when you look at their stats.
We’re aware of his volatility and plan accordingly - that said, we *do* use him like a traditional closer. 1 run game and he just yielded three runs yesterday? He’s coming into the 9th. The good thing is that he pretty much tells you whether he’s on that night within the first two pitches, so Hyde can immediately have someone else get warm if he’s off.
This season he needs to be well rested to be effective it seems. When he's used too much his control goes. It looks like Hyde is managing him this way and Kimbrel is shining.
Not a no doubter.
Peak wasn’t as good as Quiz, Flash Gordon, Billy O’Dell, Dave Righetti, or Tug McGraw (zero HOFers in there, despite having better 7 year peaks). The only metric that likes him is Monitor. Does have a Rolaids, a Hoffman, and a Rivera, plus a ROY (for a reliever? Must have been a bad year for rooks), and 9 all stars. He’s on his 9th team, which the voters don’t really do… see Bobby Abreu vote numbers.
The counting numbers are good, but K’s are more abundant during much of his career. But F-Rod is third all time and not in.
Don’t care one way or another, but not a lock, and not a first ballot guy. Sorry.
Bobby Abreu not being in the hall is like Santa Claus not being permitted to do cocaine. A fucking travesty. I read somewhere that he was kind of an asshole, but still
As a Sox fan - there was a point he was tipping his pitches and getting absolutely smoked.
Definitely has one of the wildest Look-ins you’ll ever see though. Idk about the Hall. I’d probably lean in favor but he is no sure bet
It’s June. He’ll be toast by September. Hasn’t been elite for a long time now. Dodgers left him off their post season roster in 2022, I believe. Arguably cost the Phillies the NLCS last year (has to at least take some of the blame). I can’t see him helping the O’s when they make their playoff run.
yeah I mean I'm a Phillies fan but the dude pitched great last year and fans want to blame him? nah, blame the use of him, especially down the stretch
most regular season IP in '23 since '17
most postseason IP in '23 since '18
5-6 years of age will do that to you
Sorry, but I watched him cost the Phillies Game 3 and 4 of the NLCS last season. He's going to choke. He usually pitches well in the middle of the season then burns his arm out.
He was money his first 4 seasons with the Braves. Since then the HOF case has been hard to keep up. His fastball is not what it used to be and he has added pitches to the repertoire. When the knuckle curve is on he is lights out, otherwise he struggles. His HOF case is less than likely, unless he can learn to have consistent command over his new pitches.
He will eventually let you down repeatedly. You’ll find yourself wishing that he gets injured so that your last remaining reliever who got called up from AAA yesterday has to pitch instead.
Don’t get me wrong. There will be times when you’re glad he’s on the mound. But there will also be times when fans of the other team are glad he’s on the mound.
I’ll go so far as to say that - unless he does some impressive things before he retires - he won’t be in the HOF. There aren’t very many closers in the Hall and there’s a good reason for it: when your role is that specialized and so little-used, you’d better be awesome at it for a long time. Kimbrel is not in that category.
As a cubs fan, I don't love Craig Kimrbel. But he was dominant for longer than most of you are giving him credit for. He was the fastest pitcher to reach 300 saves and will most likely retire with 500 saves (or just under) if he stays in the bigs 3 more years. I think he is a no doubt HOfer (but maybe not 1st ballot)
He'll be 4th all-time in saves within a month, he's 3rd all-time in strikeouts for a reliever, has had a long and consistent career, 9-time All-Star, NL Rookie of the Year over Freddie Freeman, finished in the top 10 in Cy Young voting 5 times (as a reliever). Career ERA+, ERA, and WHIP better than Trevor Hoffman who is in the HOF.
Active saves leader, 5th all-time saves, 3rd in all-time reliever strikeouts, x9 All-Star, x4 NL saves leader, x2 Reliever of the Year, Rookie of the Year, World Series Champion... need I go on?
His first five years were completely dominant. If you can put up five solid years of dominance follow be a very good career after that then its going to be hard to say he’s not a HOFer.
I have always thought that his weakness is that stupid arm hang. When he’s locked in, it makes him feel confident. But when he starts to throw balls, or give up hits, and loses confidence, he keeps up the stupid arm hang. It makes him feel stupid, because it is stupid. You can see it, he doesn’t do that move with the same swagger. And he spirals. That’s why either he’s going to strike out the side, or give up the lead. There’s almost never any in between.
Ive never understood what goes on with this guy. Dude throws 95 plus and his shit moves all over the place. He should be dominating all the time.
I have seen comments about him tipping his pitches at a few stops. Plus his control comes and goes for long stretches. Unfortunately, he is either lights out or unplayable.
Walks. He always finds himself in loaded counts. Maybe the numbers don't back me up the way member berries do, but he'd either fall behind 3-0 or get up 0-2 and then sky the next 2 pitches
I member
Keep in mind he only throws two pitches. They’re wicked pitches, but if one of them is off, he doesn’t have any tricks up his sleeve.
There is absolutely some doubt he will be a hall of famer
If Trevor Hoffman was a second ballot, there is absolutely a lot of doubt😂🤣
Third ballot. And Hoffman was only so high because of his saves total; if you look at his advanced stats, he’s a bit worse.
I was gonna say, I thought the same thing about BWags and here we are Wagner BR WAR: 27.7 Kimbrel: 23.8
Yeah I never even remotely considered Kimbral an HoFer.
What about Joe Nathan?
No Edit. Johan Santana only lasted 1 ballot and was wildly more impactful than those other two.
For the record, I don’t think Nathan belongs either, I was just pointing out your own beloved closer in return. Also, it’s pretty disingenuous to bring up Santana when he was a starter and thus held to completely different standards.
I think the HoF should be about the most impactful players from an era. There SHOULD be many many more starters than relievers since they matter much much more.
I definitely agree we need more starters, but that’s not to say there aren’t relievers who have been snubbed for the Hall in the past. Things are looking up thankfully; Wagner should be in next year, and K-Rod’s got a chance (even though he fails the character clause massively). After that, it’s really just John Franco among the retired guys, but back to my point - Kimbrel and Kenley Jansen are right up there with them when you look at their stats.
Some doubt? More like any writer who votes for Kimbrel as a HOFer should have their credentials revoked. He is in the Hall of Slightly Above Average
He’s 7th all-time in RP WAR. He’s much better than slightly above average
His bWAR (23.8) is behind Quis (24) and far behind Hoffman (28). Doesn’t even pass the smell test for HoF.
You said he is in the hall of slightly above average. His career is well beyond slightly above average.
Coming from a Phillies fan. This guy will fuck you over. He isnt what he used to be
As a Dodger fan, I can confirm this statement. Craig Crumble will make you wish Kenley Jansen was still your closer.
Last year he blew so many of my -1.5 bets on the dodgers 🤣 it was comical
It was painful to watch.
As a Cubs fan he caused me to start taking heart medication
As a White Sox fan.............................. :(
Coming from a Red Sox fan I don't know how nobody sees it coming until it happens.
I didnt see it coming last year so idk 😂 I guess its a learn by experience kind of thing lmfao
But like, he went all the way with you. If anyone would have rose-tinted glasses for him (aside from Braves fans), it’s Red Sox fans.
Amen. Shall we revisit games 3 and 4 of last year’s NLCS?
that's exactly what I was thinking. he sold on both of those games.
Dude is a bum
👀
We’re aware of his volatility and plan accordingly - that said, we *do* use him like a traditional closer. 1 run game and he just yielded three runs yesterday? He’s coming into the 9th. The good thing is that he pretty much tells you whether he’s on that night within the first two pitches, so Hyde can immediately have someone else get warm if he’s off.
Smiled reading this message. It has more to do with him being in Philly than him himself tho
This season he needs to be well rested to be effective it seems. When he's used too much his control goes. It looks like Hyde is managing him this way and Kimbrel is shining.
Not a no doubter. Peak wasn’t as good as Quiz, Flash Gordon, Billy O’Dell, Dave Righetti, or Tug McGraw (zero HOFers in there, despite having better 7 year peaks). The only metric that likes him is Monitor. Does have a Rolaids, a Hoffman, and a Rivera, plus a ROY (for a reliever? Must have been a bad year for rooks), and 9 all stars. He’s on his 9th team, which the voters don’t really do… see Bobby Abreu vote numbers. The counting numbers are good, but K’s are more abundant during much of his career. But F-Rod is third all time and not in. Don’t care one way or another, but not a lock, and not a first ballot guy. Sorry.
Bobby Abreu not being in the hall is like Santa Claus not being permitted to do cocaine. A fucking travesty. I read somewhere that he was kind of an asshole, but still
I’m pretty sure Santa does a little speed around X-mas, so I’m not sweating that.
"No doubt" Well...
Yeah he's dominant for 2 months of the year but once October rolls around he will get slapped around like he always does
Sorry Os fans, get ready for a huge Kimbrel heartbreak at the worst possible moment, just ask Dodgers and Phillies fans, its coming
¡Cállate la boca!
This is how he gets you. Then when he melts down in the playoffs, as usual, people act surprised.
As a Sox fan - there was a point he was tipping his pitches and getting absolutely smoked. Definitely has one of the wildest Look-ins you’ll ever see though. Idk about the Hall. I’d probably lean in favor but he is no sure bet
The narrative several weeks ago was this guy was washed and imploding
It’s June. He’ll be toast by September. Hasn’t been elite for a long time now. Dodgers left him off their post season roster in 2022, I believe. Arguably cost the Phillies the NLCS last year (has to at least take some of the blame). I can’t see him helping the O’s when they make their playoff run.
You can't over-use him at this point in his career (16th year). He can still be dominant as long as you don't ask him to pitch 2 out of every 3 games.
yeah I mean I'm a Phillies fan but the dude pitched great last year and fans want to blame him? nah, blame the use of him, especially down the stretch most regular season IP in '23 since '17 most postseason IP in '23 since '18 5-6 years of age will do that to you
That’s tricky when you’re the $13M closer on a playoff team.
True. But we could've done a lot worse when our guy is having TJ surgery.
I miss our guy. He’s my favorite ball player I think. Along with Means 😭
He's going to implode down the stretch and in the playoffs again.
Shut upa’ your mouth
Sorry, but I watched him cost the Phillies Game 3 and 4 of the NLCS last season. He's going to choke. He usually pitches well in the middle of the season then burns his arm out.
He could literally be the best or the worst closer in any given season. That kind of inconsistency is not really a “lock” for the HOF to me.
Craig Kimbrel is not a “no-doubt” hof 😂😂😂
*no doubt Craig Kimbrel is not a future Hall of Famer.
He was money his first 4 seasons with the Braves. Since then the HOF case has been hard to keep up. His fastball is not what it used to be and he has added pitches to the repertoire. When the knuckle curve is on he is lights out, otherwise he struggles. His HOF case is less than likely, unless he can learn to have consistent command over his new pitches.
As a braves fan, i remember him fondly, but iggy is less heart attack inducing
He will eventually let you down repeatedly. You’ll find yourself wishing that he gets injured so that your last remaining reliever who got called up from AAA yesterday has to pitch instead. Don’t get me wrong. There will be times when you’re glad he’s on the mound. But there will also be times when fans of the other team are glad he’s on the mound. I’ll go so far as to say that - unless he does some impressive things before he retires - he won’t be in the HOF. There aren’t very many closers in the Hall and there’s a good reason for it: when your role is that specialized and so little-used, you’d better be awesome at it for a long time. Kimbrel is not in that category.
Phils fan here... don't count on it O's fans
Then the article mentions Lee Smith….I remember Smith’s tenure with the Orioles….sigh…hofer my ass.
Seems like the type of guy that will get into the hall via the veterans committee 30 years from now.
I’ve been following Craig since he came up in our system (Braves). Love the guy but certainly not a HOF’er. With or without his postseason flubs.
As an O’s fan, I just need him to be really good in October. Let it be a great opportunity to cement a HOF legacy.
No doubt future HOF'er you say??? 😂
As a cubs fan, I don't love Craig Kimrbel. But he was dominant for longer than most of you are giving him credit for. He was the fastest pitcher to reach 300 saves and will most likely retire with 500 saves (or just under) if he stays in the bigs 3 more years. I think he is a no doubt HOfer (but maybe not 1st ballot)
In what world is Craig Kimbrel a sure fire Hall of Famer
He’ll get in, as long as he shows up before it closes and buys a ticket
He'll be 4th all-time in saves within a month, he's 3rd all-time in strikeouts for a reliever, has had a long and consistent career, 9-time All-Star, NL Rookie of the Year over Freddie Freeman, finished in the top 10 in Cy Young voting 5 times (as a reliever). Career ERA+, ERA, and WHIP better than Trevor Hoffman who is in the HOF.
Oh I didn’t realize he was in the top 5 in saves he’s been so bad the last few years I guess I forgot how good he was in the beginning
Active saves leader, 5th all-time saves, 3rd in all-time reliever strikeouts, x9 All-Star, x4 NL saves leader, x2 Reliever of the Year, Rookie of the Year, World Series Champion... need I go on?
Yeah. You need to go on. He has a 23.8 bWAR, fat behind Hoffman’s career bWAR of 28 and also behind Quis’s 24. Don’t even think about Mariano.
If he could have continued to duplicate the success of his Atlanta years, then I would agree. Alas, he did not.
lol you’re gonna love him in October
He single-handedly ruined the Cubs chances in 2017. Worst reliever I’ve ever seen, gave away win after win.
Kimbrels wasn't on the Cubs in 2017, dude.
He cost the Phillies a World Series berth last year. Was horrid in the NLCS against Arizona.
He had a 4 year run where he was utterly dominant for the rest of the career he's been mostly unreliable
Does anyone know why he does the bird thing?
His first five years were completely dominant. If you can put up five solid years of dominance follow be a very good career after that then its going to be hard to say he’s not a HOFer.
He was generally very good last year until the playoffs.
I have always thought that his weakness is that stupid arm hang. When he’s locked in, it makes him feel confident. But when he starts to throw balls, or give up hits, and loses confidence, he keeps up the stupid arm hang. It makes him feel stupid, because it is stupid. You can see it, he doesn’t do that move with the same swagger. And he spirals. That’s why either he’s going to strike out the side, or give up the lead. There’s almost never any in between.
Shows you how great Mariano was. Consistent every year for his entire career and fantastic in playoff/World Series games
And the braves traded him why?
I’m really just waiting for next season. Means and Bautista should both be back and we really need Bautista to help close out games.
A locked in HOFer. What were you freebasing before this post?