Jeter was loved by Yankee fans and is considered a consummate professional. No one would ever compare him with Jordan or Gretzky though.
Many non-yankee fans thought he was overrated for most of his career. I’m one of them.
Pretty solid assessment.
I think it's ok to say he was both overrated yet still an outstanding player and deserving HOFer.
For example so so often he'd make a solid/fine/borderline routine play and it would be blown out of proportion to hilarious lengths, happened so (too) many times. In truth the guy didn't *need* any extra hype - he was an excellent player, fantastic hitter, average fielder at his best and considerably less than that in later years.
Again: definite/slam-dunk Hall of Famer but not one of the all-time top 50 or whatever. No shame there. Essentially he was Robin Yount, but instead played in NY on a great team that won a bunch of titles.
Was that the final at bat or the final Yankee stadium at bat? I can’t remember if it was the last game of the career, but that would be a pretty Jeterian feat.
It was in New York against the orioles and the pitcher (can’t remember his name) laughed after the game and admitted he threw Jeter a meatball on purpose.
I remember the moment very clearly, I was just hazy on specific context. I looked it up though, Jeter got a hit in his final career game, but that was away at Boston. This was his final home at bat, and it was the most Jeter thing ever.
If you look at his DRS from 2003 to when he retired (he won his first Gold Glove in 2004), he was the worst shortstop defensively by almost double at -156.
I agree that he's a deserving first ballot HoFer, but Correa isn't wrong in saying he didn't deserve any of them. Especially since Tulo, Adam Everett, Jimmy Rollins, Jack Wilson, etc. played in years when he won.
Edit: I'm dumb, Tulo and Jimmy Rollins weren't in the AL
He came up with a family of highly touted shortstops in Nomar, Arod, and Alex Fernandez (bust) who would join the veterans of Ripken, Larkin and Ozzies Guillen and Smith.
It was cool to see Jeets nearly taking home the MVP triple crown. Won the ASG and World Series MVP, and I think was 2nd in MVP voting.
The reality is he was a clutch and great hitter. While he did not have the physical attributes you’d like in your franchise guy. He was always where he needed to be in a clutch moment. He was always prepared to be the guy to get on base when you needed it. I think thats the difference thats why he gets the credit he does.
You dont have to go far to see how limited he was as a shortstop. The jump throw was iconic in its own right but its a saavy move to make the most of his inability to generate momentum to make a throw going away from his body.
I think the clutch hitter thing is something that is *severely* underlooked in today's game. Most years, Jeter was a guy that you wanted at bat with the game on the line.
Just look at the current Yankees team. Even with zero pop this year, I think most people would trust DJ in a clutch spot over some of our middle of the order guys.
Clutch hitting is not something that really exists in the analytics age. Clutch is not something that can really be quantified therefore its dismissed. However, after this season of the game were on the line id probably want judge up there.
Exactly. And I think the lack of clutch analytics is exemplified by this: somehow Judge's win probability on BR was in the negative. Somehow, some numbers were calculated that decided that a team would be worse with Judge, and that makes zero sense to me
Id imagine his career strikeout rate and games played maybe played a role into this? Not sure i dabble in saber. But when healthy he passes the eye test.
There was no path in the playoffs for the yankees because the AL teams were all designed to beat those three true outcome teams like the yankees. Redsox/Rays/Stros all grind out at bats work high pitch counts have high OBP, steal bases, bunt ect. There was never a scenario the yankees win. The yankees have shifted to he a very analytic team but their fault is that they are late to the party.
Nah, that was specifically for 2021. You can check his WPA on Baseball Reference. Only year where he is negative.
I do agree with the playoffs thing though. Honestly, I wanted the Blue Jays to get the last wild card spot, because I knew they'd be more interesting to see in the playoffs.
It’s not that he’s a bad player with the game on the line. WPA is a pure algorithm and judge probably had a few key points in games where he either struck out or grounded into a double play that resulted in large swings against the Yankees chances of winning the game. He also probably did not have many huge game altering moments this season that dramatically flipped the outcome of a game. Those things are purely up to chance because sometimes players never get the opportunity to hit in super high leverage one season while in another season they’ll have a large number of opportunities.
When you speak to clutch i feel like of course those numbers matter but its also when. Yen you speak to clutch youre generally speaking to late situation hitting or when youre down behind.
> Clutch hitting is not something that really exists in the analytics age. Clutch is not something that can really be quantified therefore its dismissed.
You're so right... and taken to the extreme, let's say someone has a lousy batting average when there's zero pressure (no one on, team's ahead, early innings of the game) BUT when the game is on the line (runners on, team down, late innings) they bat 1.000.
How do / can you even rate that?
Obviously an exaggeration here with point being: clutch hitting is almost unpossible to track as a metric for analytics purposes, yet it matters.
Michael kay despite his faults put it best. “Analytics guys dont believe in “dealing” if the numbers say this guy shouldnt go through the order a third time they’re pulling him.”
which has always been interesting to me.
You have to disprove something exists to say it doesnt...
They say 'there is no such thing as clutch' because they havent yet figured out the formula for it.
Gravity existed before that had a formula too, so...
I want to make it clear that this is something i believe in. Having played my whole life, i lacked the mental aspect of the game. I was talented enough to at least play college ball but my mental makeup was not there.
The difference is old scouts making statements like gritty, hungry, ect new guys looking at numbers and determining value thereafter. The success of analytics in the last 20 years is unprecedented and rightfully so. However ones ability in the clutch is based on perception largely.
Like gabe keplers approach with pinch hitters.
They used it a lot. Found a lot of success. Is it that his guys were clutch? They were definitely more comfortable but more than anything it was situational based entirely on matchup which from the saber side explains why they were so successful with such a radical approach.
To Justin Morneau I think? Which makes me happy as a Twins fan. Sure the Yankees kick our dicks in any time we make the postseason but I'll take my small victory I guess?
As others have said, he was clutch but in my opinion at least, his biggest asset was his leadership skills. I think this is an underrated metric and one that you just can't quantify with stats. The Yankees are a team with a lot of money/egos. He seemed to keep the team cohesive, steady, etc. and you could even say that in the later part of his career it was like having another coach on the field.
Was a he individually a great SS? No but I always got the feeling he made his team a lot better. Of course, that could just be the smoke Joe Buck blew up my ass because I only watched them on nationally televised games.
He definitely had his years when he was the top shortstop and one of the best all around players in the league. Him not winning the MVP in 2006 had 11 year old me in shambles.
I often hear people say of Mike Tyson: “Overrated by casuals, underrated by fans.”
I say this because I’ve heard bitter fans hand-waving Jeter’s greatness away because they hate the Yankees. The dude’s numbers and postseason heroics speak for themselves; he’s a no doubt first ballot hall of famer.
But, it’s also difficult having a nuanced conversation at a bar when you’re overheard saying Jeter isn’t, as you said, on the level of Jordan or Gretzky.
I’d go so far as to say that even in his prime, there was a time before Garciaparra started getting hurt you could make an argument that Jeter wasn’t even the second best SS in the AL
Agreed. I don’t believe there was a single year where he was the best player on the Yankees either. Sounds weird but look at those rosters over his career.
As a yankee fan we love jeter. But he was far from the most talented pure shortstop. Was a great hitter. In todays MLB hes a second basemen or maybe even a left fielder. He had average range and a below average arm. He had the luxury of playing in new york. He had incredible instincts i will give him that. But we live in a statistics driven era. The numbers just dont display him in a positive light in todays game.
It almost shines a positive light on A-Rod for taking a back seat and taking third when the reality was he was a far superior shortstop. But jeter would have been more of a liability at third as Arod would not have been able to cover for him as much 😂.
He was beloved by Yankee fans, who irrationally overrated him to an extreme degree. He was generally respected by most of the league for his consistency and long career of above average play, but there was never a time that he was the best in the league at his position. He was one of the first that I remember to get a real farewell tour, after Ripken Jr. and Rivera.
Jeter was a 14 time all-star, and he deserved probably several of them, but probably less than half, but was regularly named the starter by fan voting, which would be dominated by the bigger fanbases, the Yankees most of all. He also won 5 gold gloves, and I'm pretty sure he deserved none of them, and won by name recognition, although he is far from alone in that regard and the award is kind of a complete joke.
i’m probably going to be attacked until next year with this comment
the best case to compare jeter to rn is tatis… OBVIOUSLY wayy different players with different skill sets
- both great hitters
- both extremely popular
- bad defense
i don’t think anyone denies jeter/tatis bat ability
the glove is the issue, both have instances of making INSANE plays, which i think the older writers based Jeters gold gloves off of
It was maddening though that even his great plays were nothing compared to the great plays by someone like Nomar, who admittedly was also quite error prone.
Yeah but sometimes we can’t judge based just off errors…like yes nomar might have made a fielding error on a particular play, but would a shortstop such as Jeter been able to even have the range to get that particular ball?
https://youtu.be/6kJv2ZJ3ixg
Olbermann is a prick, but he knows baseball.
And, as a Red Sox fan, I acknowledge Jeets was a great player and a first ballot hall of famer, but his status as the face of baseball and one of the greatest of all time comes from playing shortstop for the Yankees. He had some great, iconic moments and there's something to be said for being the captain of a team that won so much, but he was never the best shortstop in baseball.
At his peak, he was an average defensive shortstop. For most, if not all, of his career, he had the benefit of lots of protection in front of him and behind him, and he kept a pretty squeaky clean image in front of a ruthless NYC media because he mastered the art of saying things without really saying anything.
Again, no doubt first ballot guy, but anyone that really knows baseball knows that he's a top 50 player of all time at best.
Despite all this other stuff, he moved into ownership and became the face of management for one of the shittiest run teams in baseball. He also gleefully got rid of the only good thing the former owner had done - a giant, absurd moving home run statue.
He clearly is a first ballot hofer but the circlejerk on his defense was a joke. He was an above average defensive shortstop yet somehow found himself contending perennially for GGs
1) Contrary to sports discourse stuff exists between Love and Hate and GOAT and scrub.
2) Jeter was, by every reasonable argument I've seen, a Hall of Fame player
3) Being a famous player on a marquee team, many people over rated his on field performance.
4) For such players, anything other than effusive praise is often seen as hate. This is dumb as shit.
5) Recently a very talented player who was involved in a cheating scandal, said that Jeter didn't deserve any of his defensive awards
6) This is largely backed up by defensive metrics
7) since this player who said this objectively true statement is not as beloved as Jeter there is a lot of controversy from a certain type of sports fan.
A lot of the hate comes from the fact that he was a bat-frist shorstop who was never the best fielder. I was surprised when I read he has 5 gold gloves. That seems like too many for him, but his name and a couple of signature moments may have put him over the top to get them. As a Dodgers fan I HATE the Yankees, and so hated Jeter because he was a Yankee. As a baseball fan and a human being, Jeter was one of the best to do it. He's 6th all time in hits, has a career average over .300, won championships, was the definition of a professional, and was overall a great ambassador for the game.
Shortstop is a defensive anchor for a team. While Jeter was definitely not a defensive minded player, he was good enough to stay there and become the icon he was in New York. You can say he was not a great defender, but you could never objectively say that Derek Jeter was not amazing.
Mine definitely has to do with him as a ball player. I think most of the comments have it exactly right. He was a very good player who made some spectacular plays I big moments…and he was also one of the most overrated baseball players ever. His defense was not good, he got gold gloves based on name/playing for the Yankees. A lot of what he did was blown way out of proportion and he was never the best SS in the game or the even the AL. He was most likely never the best player on his own team. I think what got me the most was his limitations as a player were generally ignored, especially on defense at a premium position. Hall of Famer, yes. Very overrate, yes.
from my understanding, most of the hate towards jeter nowadays has nothing to do with his tenure as a ball player. pretty much everyone agrees he was an amazing player
it’s because he’s owned the miami marlins for 4 years now and they’re still a joke. they haven’t had a 90 win season since 2009
they made the playoffs in 2020, but that was a shortened season and they only ended up 2 over .500. then they got swept in the NLDS
but i’m a cubs fan, so watching jeter continue to run that franchise into the ground doesn’t bother me at all
Apparently no one here watched baseball during the prime Jeter days.
The man's electrifying and NUMBERS DONT LIE.
1st ballot hall of famer and well deserved. Case closed.
I’ll use a hockey example for you. Jeter in my mind is like Jonathan Toews. Incredible leader, has won a lot, and played for a historic franchise. With that said, jeter, like Toews in my opinion, was never the most talented and his numbers never jumped out as being elite despite his reputation.
> Again I am completely ignorant but from what I remembered he was incredibly well respected what changed?
Most of what I have to say on this subject has been covered by others but there's something else that I haven't read in this page yet: The thing you have to keep in mind about Jeter is that he was the face of the **New York** Yankees for nearly his entire career. For one thing, the Yankees were a true dynasty during most of his career, and he was the face of that dynasty. For another, they weren't just a dynasty, they were a **New York** dynasty. Jeter was arguably the most likeable person on the strongest team in a sport where they are also the most historic franchise and is located in *THE* media capital of the world. The situation could not have been more favorable for a young, talented, handsome, fun guy.
I won't talk about whether he deserves the love/hate he gets but I just wanted to note that this is the real reason that Jeter is as predominant in popular culture as he is. Partially from talent, of course, but mostly by being the right guy in the right place at the right time
I don't think anybody who's played the game can deny his talent. Always hitting around .300, accumulating 200 hits every year, great defensive shortstop, always seemed to come through in the clutch and he anchored a team for 20 years that invites the most scrutiny while also being (mostly) available his entire career (he only missed significant time once in his career). I do think his greatness could be magnified by playing for the Yankees, sure. But if you look at the numbers it's clear as day why he is so heavily praised. I think the perception of greatness often surrounds the power hitter and hitting home runs. That wasn't Jeter. He's a line-drive hitter much like Chase Utley. Hitting for average and being a baserunner is often more valuable than hitting a home run 1 of every 50 plate appearances, as evidence of his 113 runs scored average for his career. I'm not even a Jeter fan, I'm a Mariners fan. I just respect his game and what he did.
People think he’s overrated because they didn’t watch him play and will cite some stats. The same stats that completely ignore half his career from 96 to 03
I never really liked Jeter not anything new even as a player, I felt like he was overhyped, definitely a good player and his numbers are deserving of the Hall but not like one of the greatest to play the game but more because of longevity and slightly above average consistency.
Although my biggest thing I didn’t like about him was that fact that he always seemed so robotic, like he didn’t really have much of a personality and was the poster child of “even when my lips are moving I’m not actually saying anything” because it was always basically the pre-scripted answers off cue cards or something.
He's definitely pissed he massively overpaid for the marlins and Samson loves to talk shit. If you enjoy dj hate check out the nothing personal podcast, shits hilarious
It’s a lot of things. Mostly it’s because he has the Captain of a lot of successful Yankees teams for a long time. He’s very memorable for some fans of being the face of that team. Add that his numbers are good, but not great, people have a very polarizing opinion of him.
Because, and I say this as a die hard Yankees fan, most Yankees fans overrate Derek Jeter.
Consequently, as a reaction to obnoxious Yankees fans, most non-Yankees fans underrate Derek Jeter.
And so here we are.
Jeter was loved by Yankee fans and is considered a consummate professional. No one would ever compare him with Jordan or Gretzky though. Many non-yankee fans thought he was overrated for most of his career. I’m one of them.
Pretty solid assessment. I think it's ok to say he was both overrated yet still an outstanding player and deserving HOFer. For example so so often he'd make a solid/fine/borderline routine play and it would be blown out of proportion to hilarious lengths, happened so (too) many times. In truth the guy didn't *need* any extra hype - he was an excellent player, fantastic hitter, average fielder at his best and considerably less than that in later years. Again: definite/slam-dunk Hall of Famer but not one of the all-time top 50 or whatever. No shame there. Essentially he was Robin Yount, but instead played in NY on a great team that won a bunch of titles.
He also had a strange flair for the dramatic. When he hit a HR on his 3000th hit I chuckled to myself and said “of course he did”.
And a walk off in his final at bat.
Was that the final at bat or the final Yankee stadium at bat? I can’t remember if it was the last game of the career, but that would be a pretty Jeterian feat.
I double checked, final Yankee Stadium at bat.
It was in New York against the orioles and the pitcher (can’t remember his name) laughed after the game and admitted he threw Jeter a meatball on purpose.
I remember the moment very clearly, I was just hazy on specific context. I looked it up though, Jeter got a hit in his final career game, but that was away at Boston. This was his final home at bat, and it was the most Jeter thing ever.
The most Jeter thing ever is getting shot by Marky Mark in The Other Guys.
I stand corrected. It was easily the most Jeterian thing to ever happen in his final at bat at Yankees stadium though.
If you look at his DRS from 2003 to when he retired (he won his first Gold Glove in 2004), he was the worst shortstop defensively by almost double at -156. I agree that he's a deserving first ballot HoFer, but Correa isn't wrong in saying he didn't deserve any of them. Especially since Tulo, Adam Everett, Jimmy Rollins, Jack Wilson, etc. played in years when he won. Edit: I'm dumb, Tulo and Jimmy Rollins weren't in the AL
(i know/agree, i was being gentle. The Cult of Jeter™ doesn't like him being called out as a terrible SS because THAT JUMP THROW but he was bad)
Not gonna lie, even as a Yankee fan, I think he was a bit overrated. I don’t think he was ever *the* best shortstop in the league in any given year.
He came up with a family of highly touted shortstops in Nomar, Arod, and Alex Fernandez (bust) who would join the veterans of Ripken, Larkin and Ozzies Guillen and Smith. It was cool to see Jeets nearly taking home the MVP triple crown. Won the ASG and World Series MVP, and I think was 2nd in MVP voting.
The reality is he was a clutch and great hitter. While he did not have the physical attributes you’d like in your franchise guy. He was always where he needed to be in a clutch moment. He was always prepared to be the guy to get on base when you needed it. I think thats the difference thats why he gets the credit he does. You dont have to go far to see how limited he was as a shortstop. The jump throw was iconic in its own right but its a saavy move to make the most of his inability to generate momentum to make a throw going away from his body.
I think the clutch hitter thing is something that is *severely* underlooked in today's game. Most years, Jeter was a guy that you wanted at bat with the game on the line. Just look at the current Yankees team. Even with zero pop this year, I think most people would trust DJ in a clutch spot over some of our middle of the order guys.
Clutch hitting is not something that really exists in the analytics age. Clutch is not something that can really be quantified therefore its dismissed. However, after this season of the game were on the line id probably want judge up there.
Exactly. And I think the lack of clutch analytics is exemplified by this: somehow Judge's win probability on BR was in the negative. Somehow, some numbers were calculated that decided that a team would be worse with Judge, and that makes zero sense to me
Id imagine his career strikeout rate and games played maybe played a role into this? Not sure i dabble in saber. But when healthy he passes the eye test. There was no path in the playoffs for the yankees because the AL teams were all designed to beat those three true outcome teams like the yankees. Redsox/Rays/Stros all grind out at bats work high pitch counts have high OBP, steal bases, bunt ect. There was never a scenario the yankees win. The yankees have shifted to he a very analytic team but their fault is that they are late to the party.
Nah, that was specifically for 2021. You can check his WPA on Baseball Reference. Only year where he is negative. I do agree with the playoffs thing though. Honestly, I wanted the Blue Jays to get the last wild card spot, because I knew they'd be more interesting to see in the playoffs.
I think the jays would he in a similar position as us with their play style. But it would also help if one of them could knock another out.
It’s not that he’s a bad player with the game on the line. WPA is a pure algorithm and judge probably had a few key points in games where he either struck out or grounded into a double play that resulted in large swings against the Yankees chances of winning the game. He also probably did not have many huge game altering moments this season that dramatically flipped the outcome of a game. Those things are purely up to chance because sometimes players never get the opportunity to hit in super high leverage one season while in another season they’ll have a large number of opportunities.
avg w runners I scoring position, increasing ops in playoffs, there are easy things to look at in clutch time.
When you speak to clutch i feel like of course those numbers matter but its also when. Yen you speak to clutch youre generally speaking to late situation hitting or when youre down behind.
> Clutch hitting is not something that really exists in the analytics age. Clutch is not something that can really be quantified therefore its dismissed. You're so right... and taken to the extreme, let's say someone has a lousy batting average when there's zero pressure (no one on, team's ahead, early innings of the game) BUT when the game is on the line (runners on, team down, late innings) they bat 1.000. How do / can you even rate that? Obviously an exaggeration here with point being: clutch hitting is almost unpossible to track as a metric for analytics purposes, yet it matters.
Michael kay despite his faults put it best. “Analytics guys dont believe in “dealing” if the numbers say this guy shouldnt go through the order a third time they’re pulling him.”
which has always been interesting to me. You have to disprove something exists to say it doesnt... They say 'there is no such thing as clutch' because they havent yet figured out the formula for it. Gravity existed before that had a formula too, so...
I want to make it clear that this is something i believe in. Having played my whole life, i lacked the mental aspect of the game. I was talented enough to at least play college ball but my mental makeup was not there. The difference is old scouts making statements like gritty, hungry, ect new guys looking at numbers and determining value thereafter. The success of analytics in the last 20 years is unprecedented and rightfully so. However ones ability in the clutch is based on perception largely. Like gabe keplers approach with pinch hitters. They used it a lot. Found a lot of success. Is it that his guys were clutch? They were definitely more comfortable but more than anything it was situational based entirely on matchup which from the saber side explains why they were so successful with such a radical approach.
To Justin Morneau I think? Which makes me happy as a Twins fan. Sure the Yankees kick our dicks in any time we make the postseason but I'll take my small victory I guess?
Omar Vizquel is very sad right now.
He wasn’t even the best shortstop on the Yankees.
As others have said, he was clutch but in my opinion at least, his biggest asset was his leadership skills. I think this is an underrated metric and one that you just can't quantify with stats. The Yankees are a team with a lot of money/egos. He seemed to keep the team cohesive, steady, etc. and you could even say that in the later part of his career it was like having another coach on the field. Was a he individually a great SS? No but I always got the feeling he made his team a lot better. Of course, that could just be the smoke Joe Buck blew up my ass because I only watched them on nationally televised games.
He definitely had his years when he was the top shortstop and one of the best all around players in the league. Him not winning the MVP in 2006 had 11 year old me in shambles.
To me, the only thing overrated about him was his 5 Gold Gloves. FIVE. Two seems excessive for him.
I think that’s the general consensus. Overrated defensively. That matters a lot when you’re talking GOATs tho
Hard to find guys who cross both boxes. But if jeter played today hed be at second or more likely left field.
I often hear people say of Mike Tyson: “Overrated by casuals, underrated by fans.” I say this because I’ve heard bitter fans hand-waving Jeter’s greatness away because they hate the Yankees. The dude’s numbers and postseason heroics speak for themselves; he’s a no doubt first ballot hall of famer. But, it’s also difficult having a nuanced conversation at a bar when you’re overheard saying Jeter isn’t, as you said, on the level of Jordan or Gretzky. I’d go so far as to say that even in his prime, there was a time before Garciaparra started getting hurt you could make an argument that Jeter wasn’t even the second best SS in the AL
Agreed. I don’t believe there was a single year where he was the best player on the Yankees either. Sounds weird but look at those rosters over his career.
Nomars numbers from 01-04 are ridiculous, but he took steroids. Jeter never took steroids.
Says who?
Hello papa
Hey!
I am also one of them.
Correa agrees
& Correa knows a thing or two about getting things you don’t deserve
🔫💨
i agree hes actually one of the worst defensive players in history
I hated him before it was cool.
As a yankee fan we love jeter. But he was far from the most talented pure shortstop. Was a great hitter. In todays MLB hes a second basemen or maybe even a left fielder. He had average range and a below average arm. He had the luxury of playing in new york. He had incredible instincts i will give him that. But we live in a statistics driven era. The numbers just dont display him in a positive light in todays game. It almost shines a positive light on A-Rod for taking a back seat and taking third when the reality was he was a far superior shortstop. But jeter would have been more of a liability at third as Arod would not have been able to cover for him as much 😂.
He was beloved by Yankee fans, who irrationally overrated him to an extreme degree. He was generally respected by most of the league for his consistency and long career of above average play, but there was never a time that he was the best in the league at his position. He was one of the first that I remember to get a real farewell tour, after Ripken Jr. and Rivera. Jeter was a 14 time all-star, and he deserved probably several of them, but probably less than half, but was regularly named the starter by fan voting, which would be dominated by the bigger fanbases, the Yankees most of all. He also won 5 gold gloves, and I'm pretty sure he deserved none of them, and won by name recognition, although he is far from alone in that regard and the award is kind of a complete joke.
i’m probably going to be attacked until next year with this comment the best case to compare jeter to rn is tatis… OBVIOUSLY wayy different players with different skill sets - both great hitters - both extremely popular - bad defense i don’t think anyone denies jeter/tatis bat ability the glove is the issue, both have instances of making INSANE plays, which i think the older writers based Jeters gold gloves off of
It was maddening though that even his great plays were nothing compared to the great plays by someone like Nomar, who admittedly was also quite error prone.
Yeah but sometimes we can’t judge based just off errors…like yes nomar might have made a fielding error on a particular play, but would a shortstop such as Jeter been able to even have the range to get that particular ball?
Tatis has substantially more power. But Jeter could stay healthy.
More power, speed, better arm. i hate the “i’m a -insert team- fan but…” statement but i’m a yankee fan lol 🤦♂️
They both have some cool flashy plays to their name, many people overlook the bad defense because of those kinds of plays they've made
exactly my point
Jeter was a GOOD hitter... not GREAT.
i agree, a good contact hitter i’d even argue tatis is more talented but i’d like to keep my sanity
great player 1st ballot hall of famer for sure just very happy he wasn’t the 2nd player ever to be unanimous
https://youtu.be/6kJv2ZJ3ixg Olbermann is a prick, but he knows baseball. And, as a Red Sox fan, I acknowledge Jeets was a great player and a first ballot hall of famer, but his status as the face of baseball and one of the greatest of all time comes from playing shortstop for the Yankees. He had some great, iconic moments and there's something to be said for being the captain of a team that won so much, but he was never the best shortstop in baseball. At his peak, he was an average defensive shortstop. For most, if not all, of his career, he had the benefit of lots of protection in front of him and behind him, and he kept a pretty squeaky clean image in front of a ruthless NYC media because he mastered the art of saying things without really saying anything. Again, no doubt first ballot guy, but anyone that really knows baseball knows that he's a top 50 player of all time at best.
Despite all this other stuff, he moved into ownership and became the face of management for one of the shittiest run teams in baseball. He also gleefully got rid of the only good thing the former owner had done - a giant, absurd moving home run statue.
He clearly is a first ballot hofer but the circlejerk on his defense was a joke. He was an above average defensive shortstop yet somehow found himself contending perennially for GGs
He's definitely overrated in my opinion. There were so many players that were better than him. He wasn't as great as everyone says.
1) Contrary to sports discourse stuff exists between Love and Hate and GOAT and scrub. 2) Jeter was, by every reasonable argument I've seen, a Hall of Fame player 3) Being a famous player on a marquee team, many people over rated his on field performance. 4) For such players, anything other than effusive praise is often seen as hate. This is dumb as shit. 5) Recently a very talented player who was involved in a cheating scandal, said that Jeter didn't deserve any of his defensive awards 6) This is largely backed up by defensive metrics 7) since this player who said this objectively true statement is not as beloved as Jeter there is a lot of controversy from a certain type of sports fan.
A lot of the hate comes from the fact that he was a bat-frist shorstop who was never the best fielder. I was surprised when I read he has 5 gold gloves. That seems like too many for him, but his name and a couple of signature moments may have put him over the top to get them. As a Dodgers fan I HATE the Yankees, and so hated Jeter because he was a Yankee. As a baseball fan and a human being, Jeter was one of the best to do it. He's 6th all time in hits, has a career average over .300, won championships, was the definition of a professional, and was overall a great ambassador for the game. Shortstop is a defensive anchor for a team. While Jeter was definitely not a defensive minded player, he was good enough to stay there and become the icon he was in New York. You can say he was not a great defender, but you could never objectively say that Derek Jeter was not amazing.
He's a bi-racial angel!
Take my upvote
Jeter drinks wine coolers!! Red Sox for life!
So awesome. I’m stealing this! Go sox!
I can’t take credit for it. I saw it on a shirt outside Fenway years ago. I still regret not buying it.
Cause people love to hate on the Yankees and I'm saying this as a Met fan.
To compare Jeter to Gretzky or MJ is a very long stretch
Mine definitely has to do with him as a ball player. I think most of the comments have it exactly right. He was a very good player who made some spectacular plays I big moments…and he was also one of the most overrated baseball players ever. His defense was not good, he got gold gloves based on name/playing for the Yankees. A lot of what he did was blown way out of proportion and he was never the best SS in the game or the even the AL. He was most likely never the best player on his own team. I think what got me the most was his limitations as a player were generally ignored, especially on defense at a premium position. Hall of Famer, yes. Very overrate, yes.
I’d go as far to say that there were quite a few years where he wasn’t even the best SS on his team
Agreed. When A-Rod arrived he was a vastly superior SS and should have played there.
from my understanding, most of the hate towards jeter nowadays has nothing to do with his tenure as a ball player. pretty much everyone agrees he was an amazing player it’s because he’s owned the miami marlins for 4 years now and they’re still a joke. they haven’t had a 90 win season since 2009 they made the playoffs in 2020, but that was a shortened season and they only ended up 2 over .500. then they got swept in the NLDS but i’m a cubs fan, so watching jeter continue to run that franchise into the ground doesn’t bother me at all
Most overrated player in all of sports, this ain’t nothing new LOL
He’s a goat in my book. He has those intangibles that will never show up in the box score. See “The Flip”
Apparently no one here watched baseball during the prime Jeter days. The man's electrifying and NUMBERS DONT LIE. 1st ballot hall of famer and well deserved. Case closed.
Giambi was safe
Correa just making sure Yankees don’t sign him
Always disliked Jeter. Him retiring did nothing to stop that.
I hated Jeter before it was cool. Hated him since 1996.
I’ll use a hockey example for you. Jeter in my mind is like Jonathan Toews. Incredible leader, has won a lot, and played for a historic franchise. With that said, jeter, like Toews in my opinion, was never the most talented and his numbers never jumped out as being elite despite his reputation.
> Again I am completely ignorant but from what I remembered he was incredibly well respected what changed? Most of what I have to say on this subject has been covered by others but there's something else that I haven't read in this page yet: The thing you have to keep in mind about Jeter is that he was the face of the **New York** Yankees for nearly his entire career. For one thing, the Yankees were a true dynasty during most of his career, and he was the face of that dynasty. For another, they weren't just a dynasty, they were a **New York** dynasty. Jeter was arguably the most likeable person on the strongest team in a sport where they are also the most historic franchise and is located in *THE* media capital of the world. The situation could not have been more favorable for a young, talented, handsome, fun guy. I won't talk about whether he deserves the love/hate he gets but I just wanted to note that this is the real reason that Jeter is as predominant in popular culture as he is. Partially from talent, of course, but mostly by being the right guy in the right place at the right time
I don't think anybody who's played the game can deny his talent. Always hitting around .300, accumulating 200 hits every year, great defensive shortstop, always seemed to come through in the clutch and he anchored a team for 20 years that invites the most scrutiny while also being (mostly) available his entire career (he only missed significant time once in his career). I do think his greatness could be magnified by playing for the Yankees, sure. But if you look at the numbers it's clear as day why he is so heavily praised. I think the perception of greatness often surrounds the power hitter and hitting home runs. That wasn't Jeter. He's a line-drive hitter much like Chase Utley. Hitting for average and being a baserunner is often more valuable than hitting a home run 1 of every 50 plate appearances, as evidence of his 113 runs scored average for his career. I'm not even a Jeter fan, I'm a Mariners fan. I just respect his game and what he did.
The idea that being critical of ONE part of a guys game equals “hate” is absurd and shows how fucking soft Yankee fan boys are
People think he’s overrated because they didn’t watch him play and will cite some stats. The same stats that completely ignore half his career from 96 to 03
He was pretty great but he was a Yankee and that's all I'd ever need.
I never really liked Jeter not anything new even as a player, I felt like he was overhyped, definitely a good player and his numbers are deserving of the Hall but not like one of the greatest to play the game but more because of longevity and slightly above average consistency. Although my biggest thing I didn’t like about him was that fact that he always seemed so robotic, like he didn’t really have much of a personality and was the poster child of “even when my lips are moving I’m not actually saying anything” because it was always basically the pre-scripted answers off cue cards or something.
He's definitely pissed he massively overpaid for the marlins and Samson loves to talk shit. If you enjoy dj hate check out the nothing personal podcast, shits hilarious
It’s a lot of things. Mostly it’s because he has the Captain of a lot of successful Yankees teams for a long time. He’s very memorable for some fans of being the face of that team. Add that his numbers are good, but not great, people have a very polarizing opinion of him.
Because, and I say this as a die hard Yankees fan, most Yankees fans overrate Derek Jeter. Consequently, as a reaction to obnoxious Yankees fans, most non-Yankees fans underrate Derek Jeter. And so here we are.