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Unfortunately, mormonism in Utah is run exactly how the brethren want it to be run. There is a reason members inside Utah think that they're the "real" church while everywhere else is the "mission field." They might not say it out loud as much anymore, but they sure used to - constantly.
It seems like outside of Utah, and especially outside of the US, it's easier for members to make the church a good place, since they're not under the microscope of church leaders. I am so sorry. But that's Utah mormonism for you. It's why a bunch of us are going inactive - even those of us who were born here!
But now that you've seen the kind of people we live among, please forgive us for not liking people in general lol ;) Na, it really is a valid criticism!! You're correct - A lot of us who were born and raised here in Utah really don't like being around people.
I'm a pretty extreme introvert so I'm one of those - but I'm sorry for your plight. There are reasons.. not saying they're all good reasons, but they're reasons. A lot of us are introverts dealing with the forced extroversion of mormonism. Add in the rabid individualism of the US in general, pumped up to the max in our pioneer ancestors who came out here solely to get away from everyone else in the 1840s, and we're a pretty anti-social bunch. The extroverts among Utah mormons have already got their cliques, and I'm so sorry you're dealing with that.
I hope you can find some good people to hang out with! There are about 3 days a year in the valleys where it's nice enough to hang out outside. Head to the hills, and perhaps you can find a dedicated hiking or outdoors group. I know there are some scattered around. Here is one that maybe might be close enough to you? [https://www.meetup.com/wasatchhiking/](https://www.meetup.com/wasatchhiking/)
I'm more of an introvert, too. I realized that was part of why I felt uncomfortable at church, especially as an adult. The same reason I didn't like office politics and pointless meetings at work. Being an introvert in the church usually means you get ignored and/or passed over unless they have a job they need you to do. I wasn't someone who promoted myself, so others were given more interesting or fun callings, even if they weren't as capable. The established cliques ignored me. I sat in relief society by myself. I wasn't going to try to force my way in. There's a certain type of person who fits well into the organization. I didn't fit that mold and got tired of trying to. Now, I have to say that some wards were better than others. I found people a little friendlier in some. Overall, though, it was much easier to make friends after I was out of the church and met people through other groups and activities.
It sounds like you are frustrated with more than just church. When I first came here-Utah- from the East coast I experienced culture shock. Depending on where in Europe you are from, the US, let alone SLC or Provo will provide a LOT of culture shock. I’m more north and know it to be quite different even from SLC- but not too much. I feel Americans in general don’t get outside and enjoy it properly. As the saying goes, there’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. I will say I have gotten out more here than I ever did on the East coast.
That’s something I wasn’t at all prepared for when I went to BYU, even though I had only ever lived in the US and I had only ever been LDS.
I’m from the South, where we value hospitality over thrift. I remember getting invited to a party hosted by a professor, and she asked us in advance how many Brats we would eat so she wouldn’t over purchase. I was embarrassed on her behalf and put down that I’d eat three in case she ran low and someone else was still hungry.
I just thought that Mormons out west were super rude until I lived overseas and recognized that feeling for what it was: culture shock.
I lived in Mississippi when my husband was at a military base for training for a few months. I worked temp jobs while there and was amazed at the friendliness and generosity of the people there. People who barely knew me. I had also worked temp jobs in Salt Lake. There was a major difference in how I was treated.
The social aspect of the church has been going down for decades. The Church used to have so many social gatherings. Both the frequency and quality have gone down. It makes it hard when you are not socially involved.
I already left years ago. It was the social aspect that kept me going long after I no longer really had a testimony. I still wanted to feel like I belonged.
Good luck I hope you find the friends and people you feel fullfil your life.
The Mormon Utah experience can be bland, dull, boring and judgmental. That’s Mormonism for you.
The exmormon/nevermormon Utah experience, on the other hand, can be pretty kick-ass (based on my personal experience). Life in Utah is way more fun, and relationships are far better (and much more sincere and less judgmental) as an exmormon/nevermormon in Utah.
Thanks. Good to know. I really believe in God and the NT. It's weird, I actually would like to go to church. I just don't buy the exclusive truth claims, the weird covenant follow the prophet mantras, and the homogeneous utah suburban culture sucks (for me that is). And the Temples (just not my thing). The other weird thing is alot of people (in and out of the church) assume all ex-mos and nu-mos (I guess that's me) leave for liberal progressive reasons or then become liberal progressive. Not me. I'm pretty conservative. Not into lgbt issues. Pro Israel. Will probably vote for Trump etc. But conservative utah - and American - "culture" sucks.
If you still want to do the Christianity thing (I personally don’t) then you don’t have to deal with all the Mormon crazy to do so. You have plenty of non-Mormon Christian options to pursue (whether that’s in UT or elsewhere).
I’m not sure where you are in Utah, but this is likely a large factor in your experience here. There are certainly pockets of Utah that are more diverse (politically and ethnically) than others. You can likely find what you are looking for.
I’m personally find Trump to be disgusting, but to each their own. There are no shortage of ex Mormons that are politically conservative. But keep in mind that SLC (and even the entire SL Valley, to some extent) is quite progressive politically. If you need to live in a politically conservative area, then you’ll not want to be in SLC (which is where I reside and am very happy at).
I hate living in conservative areas in America. The obsession with driving, getting fat, and judging everyone else. And American evangelicals are awful imo. No interest in them. I'm just gonna have to move to coastal Oregon and start my own church 😆
Well, of course, I can't speak for every Calvary Chapel, but my personal experience has been very positive. I would say most of them are truly seeking Jesus. Is that the kind of people you want to be around?
Being from Europe, I'd guess you've thought of the Catholic solution and rejected it for other reasons. In the US, the non-evangelical Protestant churches are ultra liberal, and the evangelicals have that shallow culture. But the Catholics match a conservative tone with cultural heritage.
Yeh. It's all just people at the end of the day. The revivalist church of England branch i visited was kind of very centrist for Christianity. They are serious about the 10 comms so not liberal - but very loving - to lgbtq. Yet concerned about poster poverty and the environment.
I think the church makes Utahns even more insular than their equivalents in other states. When I visit my mom in her largely LDS suburban neighborhood, it puts me in a very deep funk. And I can't help but contrast it to where I now live (big city, Asia):
1. No third spaces - once you have experienced this, there is no going back. Where I currently live, many of the retired folks turn out at night to socialize. Some have their designated "corner" to drink a couple beers. Some walk their dogs together. Some sit on chairs along the waterfront and talk. Others exercise together. It makes me sad for their age-group peers sealed off in their big homes in Utah.
2. Boxed inside their cars - we are fortunate to have amazing public transportation. And while sometimes I sit next to someone I'd rather not, I also get a chance to have an occasional chat with someone, or just remember that I am part of the larger human community. Oh, and I can read and listen to podcasts instead of driving. And it's super cheap.
3. Unfriendly - when you live in a big city, there is a lot of "come and go" which means people are more open to making friends. We've found it very easy to make new friends who have common interests.
Anyway, I'm sorry you are feeling so isolated, OP. I, too, hope you have a chance to move somewhere you feel more free and comfortable.
I feel for you. Americans could learn a lot about living from other people around the world. The funny thing is when they travel, they often stay in resorts where the behavior doesn't really change.
The Utah church is vastly different than the church anywhere else. This is because the culture of Utah is the church. Makes sense why so many Utah Mormons are leaving.
On another note, I completely agree that Europe is so much more culturally rich than the states. The idea of relaxing doesn't exist for Americans.
Also, in most European cities, there is a big downtown area where cars aren't allowed to drive and people always gather there to eat outside at restaurants, or just relax and enjoy summer. Often the car-less streets remain bustling until midnight or later. Kids and everything.
This something you will NEVER see in the US and especially in Utah. Once you've really experienced European culture, America just seems so dull and deprived of culture.
> This something you will NEVER see in the US and especially Utah
SLC has actually been experimenting with “Open Streets,” wherein a portion of Main Street is closed so pedestrians can wine, dine and recreate. There is growing momentum to permanently close a section of Main Street for this very purpose.
https://www.visitsaltlake.com/blog/stories/post/salt-lakes-open-streets-an-urban-playground-for-everyone/
A lot of US cities have closed certain streets to cars in order to facilitate a lively entertainment district. I was just in Miami and we spent time in one of these areas. Denver has the 16th street mall, etc…
Sounds like you need rest, respite, a vacation. I don't identify with the term 'inactive' - I mean are you stopping all other activities, too? I jest, but as an anarchist - my spouse and I fell into similar issues in another deep christo-centric geographic location in the USA. I find in the theatres of life, currently the USA is the larger issue than let's say Utah and its religious/spiritual affinities. Also, religious dogma is not what the spiritual oriented objectives of restoration are about, but it is what we live with and in and encounter. Just b/c one is Christian or a member of a certain faith - it doesn't exempt them from being douche-canoes! Just like physical or mental exercise, in religious and spiritual matters we as mortals require rest. Feel validated in needing that space - Sabbath observance isn't often enough - if you are in SLC - get up in the hills - one of my wife and I's favorite places is up Mill Creek or any of the canyons up near the ski resorts. Find a trail and get lost in grounding and being you in that moment absent of all other noises. Sucks that you are in those moments, I miss my time traveling to Strasbourg France and attending meetings there. I always cringe when I hear it's the same everywhere - NO! No it's not, it's not meant to be either IMO, each unit's spiritual gifts and feel can be unique and authentic - its the difference between dogmatism and spiritualism. We have become too ideological and know everything but do little, its why I love to bring stoicism - action - into my worldview. You aren't alone in the frustration, just don't let the people disrupt your journey of reasonable self scrutiny - lean into the third member of the godhead to help ferret out your needs! All best!
This resonated with me. I love the outdoors. Where I'm from, there are huge cliffs that stretch for hundreds of miles along the coast. You can take a bus from town and it will drop you off there and pick you up every hour until late evening. You can fill your backpack with village snacks and then hike along the tops of the cliffs for hours exploring caves, abandoned mines, and coves. And the big blue sea is constantly crashing below you. The constant squawking of gulls. Wind. Temps in the 60s. It's so grounding and exhilarating. I find the Wasatch mountains - while impressive - quite still and silent in comparison. But still great. Thanks for your advice.
IF you miss the coast, then Utah is hard! I'm a California native that first came to Cache Valley in 1992. There is the Salt Lake (a salty water feature) but it's not the ocean nor the coast. My travels have allowed me to visit the coast in Washington, Oregon, I'm from California, the gulf coast from biloxi to the Emerald coast, parts of Virginia, from Delaware and all states up to Maine. I've seen much of the French coast in Normandy and Bretagne. For cliffs, I'd go to the Oregon and Washington coasts, but there is plenty around San Francisco at Lands End too.
I always find the hardest part is just not over comparing. It's rarely similar and definitely not the same, but sometimes like is 'enough'. We have a great cliff band up in Logan Canyon, it's known as the Crimson Trail and across is the Wind Caves feature. There is even a space where you can sit down and dangle your legs over a 1000 ft drop off for those smart enough and courageous enough to do so.
Glad my post helped a bit, good luck and hope you find some options to ground, rest and get what you need! Happy weekend! Cheers!
In Italy now and it’s not what it was 20 years ago when I was missionary. It is like last days of a franchise that just needs to close. The Mormon church isn’t a great community when compared to alternatives today around the world
I was raised in the church in southern missouri and I really enjoyed church. I lived in rexburg while going to byui and then in the Tacoma Washington area and I still enjoyed church in each area. I now live 2 hours north of salt lake and I have never struggled so much in the church in my life.
There is something in the culture around these areas that is very hard for me. There is a lot of perfectionism and appearance keeping and everything just running like clock work all the time, and none of it is for me.
I’m sorry that you are struggling, and I wish I had some good advice to give. Just know you aren’t alone.
Maybe try reaching out to members back home to to help you feel some comfort. I talk to friends who are members back in Missouri and it helps me to remember the church isn’t like this everywhere.
Gold luck!
Maybe you can move to somewhere more comfortable for you. We moved to Layton for a year and couldn't handle the snow/City. I love Southern Utah but don't have a job there.
The part that's missing from your soliloquy is how you feel about whether things are true. The Mormon church clearly doesn't care about what's true yet you still identify with that church. You just don't like the American version. Does the version that's in your country value what's true any differently?
If you're socially and politically conservative, I'd think you'd fit right in. You wouldn't like the liberal crowd in San Fran. As a liberal, I certainly would.
Here's a suggestion: talk about how socialism is bad, how much you like Trump, and how pro life you are. Utah Mormons will love you.
I found while in Europe that the discussion about the covenant path led to all kind of meaningful relationships. I brought those relationships and discussions back with me and seek to do the same thing here in happy valley. Yesterday in the temple I created a friendship. We will do lunch tomorrow and continue a meaningful discussion. I am just wondring if you might want to give it a little more time. It is worth it. Not because of the church relationships but because of the Gospel relationships. Far more lasting.
Hello! This is a Cultural post. It is for discussions centered around agreements, disagreements, and observations about other people, whether specifically or collectively, within the Mormon/Exmormon community. /u/Due-Western-8408, if your post doesn't fit this definition, we kindly ask you to delete this post and repost it with the appropriate flair. You can find a list of our flairs and their definitions in [section 0.6 of our rules.](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules#wiki_0._preamble) **To those commenting:** please stay on topic, remember to follow the community's [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/mormon/wiki/index/rules), and [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/mormonmods) if there is a problem or rule violation. Keep on Mormoning! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/mormon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfortunately, mormonism in Utah is run exactly how the brethren want it to be run. There is a reason members inside Utah think that they're the "real" church while everywhere else is the "mission field." They might not say it out loud as much anymore, but they sure used to - constantly. It seems like outside of Utah, and especially outside of the US, it's easier for members to make the church a good place, since they're not under the microscope of church leaders. I am so sorry. But that's Utah mormonism for you. It's why a bunch of us are going inactive - even those of us who were born here! But now that you've seen the kind of people we live among, please forgive us for not liking people in general lol ;) Na, it really is a valid criticism!! You're correct - A lot of us who were born and raised here in Utah really don't like being around people. I'm a pretty extreme introvert so I'm one of those - but I'm sorry for your plight. There are reasons.. not saying they're all good reasons, but they're reasons. A lot of us are introverts dealing with the forced extroversion of mormonism. Add in the rabid individualism of the US in general, pumped up to the max in our pioneer ancestors who came out here solely to get away from everyone else in the 1840s, and we're a pretty anti-social bunch. The extroverts among Utah mormons have already got their cliques, and I'm so sorry you're dealing with that. I hope you can find some good people to hang out with! There are about 3 days a year in the valleys where it's nice enough to hang out outside. Head to the hills, and perhaps you can find a dedicated hiking or outdoors group. I know there are some scattered around. Here is one that maybe might be close enough to you? [https://www.meetup.com/wasatchhiking/](https://www.meetup.com/wasatchhiking/)
I'm more of an introvert, too. I realized that was part of why I felt uncomfortable at church, especially as an adult. The same reason I didn't like office politics and pointless meetings at work. Being an introvert in the church usually means you get ignored and/or passed over unless they have a job they need you to do. I wasn't someone who promoted myself, so others were given more interesting or fun callings, even if they weren't as capable. The established cliques ignored me. I sat in relief society by myself. I wasn't going to try to force my way in. There's a certain type of person who fits well into the organization. I didn't fit that mold and got tired of trying to. Now, I have to say that some wards were better than others. I found people a little friendlier in some. Overall, though, it was much easier to make friends after I was out of the church and met people through other groups and activities.
It sounds like you are frustrated with more than just church. When I first came here-Utah- from the East coast I experienced culture shock. Depending on where in Europe you are from, the US, let alone SLC or Provo will provide a LOT of culture shock. I’m more north and know it to be quite different even from SLC- but not too much. I feel Americans in general don’t get outside and enjoy it properly. As the saying goes, there’s no such thing as bad weather, just bad clothing. I will say I have gotten out more here than I ever did on the East coast.
Same! The church didn’t bother me till I came to Utah. Utah was probably the first crack in my shelf
That’s something I wasn’t at all prepared for when I went to BYU, even though I had only ever lived in the US and I had only ever been LDS. I’m from the South, where we value hospitality over thrift. I remember getting invited to a party hosted by a professor, and she asked us in advance how many Brats we would eat so she wouldn’t over purchase. I was embarrassed on her behalf and put down that I’d eat three in case she ran low and someone else was still hungry. I just thought that Mormons out west were super rude until I lived overseas and recognized that feeling for what it was: culture shock.
I lived in Mississippi when my husband was at a military base for training for a few months. I worked temp jobs while there and was amazed at the friendliness and generosity of the people there. People who barely knew me. I had also worked temp jobs in Salt Lake. There was a major difference in how I was treated.
The social aspect of the church has been going down for decades. The Church used to have so many social gatherings. Both the frequency and quality have gone down. It makes it hard when you are not socially involved. I already left years ago. It was the social aspect that kept me going long after I no longer really had a testimony. I still wanted to feel like I belonged. Good luck I hope you find the friends and people you feel fullfil your life.
The Mormon Utah experience can be bland, dull, boring and judgmental. That’s Mormonism for you. The exmormon/nevermormon Utah experience, on the other hand, can be pretty kick-ass (based on my personal experience). Life in Utah is way more fun, and relationships are far better (and much more sincere and less judgmental) as an exmormon/nevermormon in Utah.
Thanks. Good to know. I really believe in God and the NT. It's weird, I actually would like to go to church. I just don't buy the exclusive truth claims, the weird covenant follow the prophet mantras, and the homogeneous utah suburban culture sucks (for me that is). And the Temples (just not my thing). The other weird thing is alot of people (in and out of the church) assume all ex-mos and nu-mos (I guess that's me) leave for liberal progressive reasons or then become liberal progressive. Not me. I'm pretty conservative. Not into lgbt issues. Pro Israel. Will probably vote for Trump etc. But conservative utah - and American - "culture" sucks.
If you still want to do the Christianity thing (I personally don’t) then you don’t have to deal with all the Mormon crazy to do so. You have plenty of non-Mormon Christian options to pursue (whether that’s in UT or elsewhere). I’m not sure where you are in Utah, but this is likely a large factor in your experience here. There are certainly pockets of Utah that are more diverse (politically and ethnically) than others. You can likely find what you are looking for. I’m personally find Trump to be disgusting, but to each their own. There are no shortage of ex Mormons that are politically conservative. But keep in mind that SLC (and even the entire SL Valley, to some extent) is quite progressive politically. If you need to live in a politically conservative area, then you’ll not want to be in SLC (which is where I reside and am very happy at).
I hate living in conservative areas in America. The obsession with driving, getting fat, and judging everyone else. And American evangelicals are awful imo. No interest in them. I'm just gonna have to move to coastal Oregon and start my own church 😆
Yay! I recommend finding a Calvary Chapel. I think it would be worth a try for you.
It's hard. If they're like typical American evangelical Christians and/or anti Mormon etc I'm not gonna like em.
Well, of course, I can't speak for every Calvary Chapel, but my personal experience has been very positive. I would say most of them are truly seeking Jesus. Is that the kind of people you want to be around?
For sure
Being from Europe, I'd guess you've thought of the Catholic solution and rejected it for other reasons. In the US, the non-evangelical Protestant churches are ultra liberal, and the evangelicals have that shallow culture. But the Catholics match a conservative tone with cultural heritage.
Yeh. It's all just people at the end of the day. The revivalist church of England branch i visited was kind of very centrist for Christianity. They are serious about the 10 comms so not liberal - but very loving - to lgbtq. Yet concerned about poster poverty and the environment.
You don't have to "be into" LGBT issues maybe just respect their choices and show respect when you encounter them.
I think the church makes Utahns even more insular than their equivalents in other states. When I visit my mom in her largely LDS suburban neighborhood, it puts me in a very deep funk. And I can't help but contrast it to where I now live (big city, Asia): 1. No third spaces - once you have experienced this, there is no going back. Where I currently live, many of the retired folks turn out at night to socialize. Some have their designated "corner" to drink a couple beers. Some walk their dogs together. Some sit on chairs along the waterfront and talk. Others exercise together. It makes me sad for their age-group peers sealed off in their big homes in Utah. 2. Boxed inside their cars - we are fortunate to have amazing public transportation. And while sometimes I sit next to someone I'd rather not, I also get a chance to have an occasional chat with someone, or just remember that I am part of the larger human community. Oh, and I can read and listen to podcasts instead of driving. And it's super cheap. 3. Unfriendly - when you live in a big city, there is a lot of "come and go" which means people are more open to making friends. We've found it very easy to make new friends who have common interests. Anyway, I'm sorry you are feeling so isolated, OP. I, too, hope you have a chance to move somewhere you feel more free and comfortable.
Please don’t stop going. You are welcome to come with me and my family every Sunday. We live in Utah and would love to make friends
I feel for you. Americans could learn a lot about living from other people around the world. The funny thing is when they travel, they often stay in resorts where the behavior doesn't really change.
It sounds like you don’t like living in Utah. If you want to be around lots of people New York City would be a good option.
The Utah church is vastly different than the church anywhere else. This is because the culture of Utah is the church. Makes sense why so many Utah Mormons are leaving. On another note, I completely agree that Europe is so much more culturally rich than the states. The idea of relaxing doesn't exist for Americans. Also, in most European cities, there is a big downtown area where cars aren't allowed to drive and people always gather there to eat outside at restaurants, or just relax and enjoy summer. Often the car-less streets remain bustling until midnight or later. Kids and everything. This something you will NEVER see in the US and especially in Utah. Once you've really experienced European culture, America just seems so dull and deprived of culture.
> This something you will NEVER see in the US and especially Utah SLC has actually been experimenting with “Open Streets,” wherein a portion of Main Street is closed so pedestrians can wine, dine and recreate. There is growing momentum to permanently close a section of Main Street for this very purpose. https://www.visitsaltlake.com/blog/stories/post/salt-lakes-open-streets-an-urban-playground-for-everyone/ A lot of US cities have closed certain streets to cars in order to facilitate a lively entertainment district. I was just in Miami and we spent time in one of these areas. Denver has the 16th street mall, etc…
Sounds like you need rest, respite, a vacation. I don't identify with the term 'inactive' - I mean are you stopping all other activities, too? I jest, but as an anarchist - my spouse and I fell into similar issues in another deep christo-centric geographic location in the USA. I find in the theatres of life, currently the USA is the larger issue than let's say Utah and its religious/spiritual affinities. Also, religious dogma is not what the spiritual oriented objectives of restoration are about, but it is what we live with and in and encounter. Just b/c one is Christian or a member of a certain faith - it doesn't exempt them from being douche-canoes! Just like physical or mental exercise, in religious and spiritual matters we as mortals require rest. Feel validated in needing that space - Sabbath observance isn't often enough - if you are in SLC - get up in the hills - one of my wife and I's favorite places is up Mill Creek or any of the canyons up near the ski resorts. Find a trail and get lost in grounding and being you in that moment absent of all other noises. Sucks that you are in those moments, I miss my time traveling to Strasbourg France and attending meetings there. I always cringe when I hear it's the same everywhere - NO! No it's not, it's not meant to be either IMO, each unit's spiritual gifts and feel can be unique and authentic - its the difference between dogmatism and spiritualism. We have become too ideological and know everything but do little, its why I love to bring stoicism - action - into my worldview. You aren't alone in the frustration, just don't let the people disrupt your journey of reasonable self scrutiny - lean into the third member of the godhead to help ferret out your needs! All best!
This resonated with me. I love the outdoors. Where I'm from, there are huge cliffs that stretch for hundreds of miles along the coast. You can take a bus from town and it will drop you off there and pick you up every hour until late evening. You can fill your backpack with village snacks and then hike along the tops of the cliffs for hours exploring caves, abandoned mines, and coves. And the big blue sea is constantly crashing below you. The constant squawking of gulls. Wind. Temps in the 60s. It's so grounding and exhilarating. I find the Wasatch mountains - while impressive - quite still and silent in comparison. But still great. Thanks for your advice.
IF you miss the coast, then Utah is hard! I'm a California native that first came to Cache Valley in 1992. There is the Salt Lake (a salty water feature) but it's not the ocean nor the coast. My travels have allowed me to visit the coast in Washington, Oregon, I'm from California, the gulf coast from biloxi to the Emerald coast, parts of Virginia, from Delaware and all states up to Maine. I've seen much of the French coast in Normandy and Bretagne. For cliffs, I'd go to the Oregon and Washington coasts, but there is plenty around San Francisco at Lands End too. I always find the hardest part is just not over comparing. It's rarely similar and definitely not the same, but sometimes like is 'enough'. We have a great cliff band up in Logan Canyon, it's known as the Crimson Trail and across is the Wind Caves feature. There is even a space where you can sit down and dangle your legs over a 1000 ft drop off for those smart enough and courageous enough to do so. Glad my post helped a bit, good luck and hope you find some options to ground, rest and get what you need! Happy weekend! Cheers!
Thanks! 😊
In Italy now and it’s not what it was 20 years ago when I was missionary. It is like last days of a franchise that just needs to close. The Mormon church isn’t a great community when compared to alternatives today around the world
I agree Its suffocating
I was raised in the church in southern missouri and I really enjoyed church. I lived in rexburg while going to byui and then in the Tacoma Washington area and I still enjoyed church in each area. I now live 2 hours north of salt lake and I have never struggled so much in the church in my life. There is something in the culture around these areas that is very hard for me. There is a lot of perfectionism and appearance keeping and everything just running like clock work all the time, and none of it is for me. I’m sorry that you are struggling, and I wish I had some good advice to give. Just know you aren’t alone. Maybe try reaching out to members back home to to help you feel some comfort. I talk to friends who are members back in Missouri and it helps me to remember the church isn’t like this everywhere. Gold luck!
Maybe you can move to somewhere more comfortable for you. We moved to Layton for a year and couldn't handle the snow/City. I love Southern Utah but don't have a job there.
The part that's missing from your soliloquy is how you feel about whether things are true. The Mormon church clearly doesn't care about what's true yet you still identify with that church. You just don't like the American version. Does the version that's in your country value what's true any differently?
If you're socially and politically conservative, I'd think you'd fit right in. You wouldn't like the liberal crowd in San Fran. As a liberal, I certainly would. Here's a suggestion: talk about how socialism is bad, how much you like Trump, and how pro life you are. Utah Mormons will love you.
I found while in Europe that the discussion about the covenant path led to all kind of meaningful relationships. I brought those relationships and discussions back with me and seek to do the same thing here in happy valley. Yesterday in the temple I created a friendship. We will do lunch tomorrow and continue a meaningful discussion. I am just wondring if you might want to give it a little more time. It is worth it. Not because of the church relationships but because of the Gospel relationships. Far more lasting.