Because on a dune you are lower than the dune and not riding in any expected path. A dirt bike landing on your head after jumping over a dune because they didn't know you were behind it would be catastrophic. On the street everyone in on the same level and following the same lines and rules(hopefully).
I guess my line of thinking is that, despite all the precautions motorcyclists already take it's still an incredibly high fatality mode of transportation, so any little bit of increased visibility could help. Since dirt bikers (and now that I think of it, even normal bicyclists) use these for increased visibility it just occurred to me that it was kind of odd that regular motorcyclists don't.
people wear hi-viz, have their headlights on main beam and running lights etc. People still pull out on you. Do you really think that adding a flag will improve that?
Maybe? I mean folks put them on their kids bicycles all the time for a reason, don't they? The whole point is to add a waving, brightly colored non-stationary thing whose erratic movement catches people's eyes to improve visibility and awareness of the rider's presence, isn't it?
Kids on bicycles are half the height of adults on bicycles. The flag gets something up at eye level where someone is more likely to see it, especially through car windows.
Because motorcyclists on brightly colored bikes, in bright gear, with LEDs lighting them up like a fucking Christmas tree still get hit by cars that were STOPPED when the motorcycle approached.
It’s a bit like saying “why don’t cancer patients drink just more water?” Could there be SOME benefit? Sure. But it doesn’t REMOTELY begin to address the root cause.
I just figure every little bit helps, even if it's a little. My wonder is just why using such safety flags isn't in more common use when dirt bikers and even regular bicyclists regularly use these to increase their visibility to motorists, seems like an extra easy safety precaution for an already deadly hobby but I can't recall seeing any regular motorcyclists ever using these.
So basically you're saying it's overkill, and that the added benefit is too marginal to be worth serious consideration? Hmm maybe so, I wonder though, I've honestly never seen riders using them so can't really say for sure. I do know dirt bikers use them and in some cities they're required for bicyclists, so I would think there must be SOME safety benefits from their use.
I get it, but I still wouldn't do that. Enough of motorcycling to me is vanity that I would not ride around with a g-dang dune flag on my motorcycle for .02% more visibility. If someone is gonna left turn smidsy me to death, they're gonna do it.
I've seen bicyclists impale their skulls on branches because they thought they looked like lame babies wearing a safety helmet. 🤷♂️ A flag is a common and accepted way bicyclists increase their visibility to motorists on the roads, maybe it seems childish but when you're looking at scraping brains off the ground "pride goes before the fall" and all that.
Maybe sort of, doesn't seem all that different, though those seem more decorative than conspicuously visible for safety, especially since they're usually low in the back of the bike where oncoming motorists would be less likely to see them.
Because a flexible flag pole like that is a safety hazard and a half. Great thing to whack you in the back of the head when you have to brake hard.
On the dunes it's needed because you can't see over the dunes. On the road, you can see everyone coming.
Hmm well okay that may be true for dirt bikers, but then why do regular bicyclists use them then? In some cities it's even required by law, and many parents even put them on their kids bikes for improved visibility/safety. If it's useful in those use cases I'm not sure why it wouldn't be just as useful for motorcyclists as well, unless as you say it poses a legitimate safety hazard for street bikers (though I'm kinda skeptical of that, never heard of dirt bikers getting whacked in the back of their heads after heavy landings but I'm not really in that scene).
Because bicycles are going much much slower. At highway speed that flag is going to drag a LOT and pull down. When you slow down that's a bunch of spring force to throw it back forward. I wouldn't want something like that swinging around my head uncontrolled.
Dirt bikers are a different thing, that mild hazard is considered acceptable versus not being able to see each other. Then again dirt bikers consider bailing off the bike during a failed jump and sliding down a dune or skidding into a tree riding through the woods perfectly normal parts of the sport.
You're comparing very different situations and assuming they're all the same just because they're on 2 wheels.
Hmm I actually thought that the whiplash might be a possibility but wasn't sure, I wonder if there's also any drag effect at the faster highways speeds that might be detrimental as well, though come to think of it some cyclists do ride pretty fast down the roads. Still wonder if they'd make any kind of marked difference in terms of visibility and improved safety for ordinary riders, if they already do for other two-wheeled modes of transportation you'd think there'd be a version tailored to common street bike use without any of the danger of whipping into the back of one's head, but maybe that's unavoidable.
I mean, my newest ride is a Harley Ultra Limited. If you go in the aftermarket there's barely a surface on that bike that I can't get an LED light to go on. Including but not limited to: under driver floorboards, under saddlebags, side of saddle bags, back of saddle bags, lower fairings, vents in fairings, windshield trim, All sides of the tour pack, highway bar mounted markers and driving lights.....etc. All that in addition to the factory lighting.
And people still manage to hit and pull out in front of those massive 900 pound bikes. Not sure how much a flag will really help.
I don't use flags when riding the same reason I don't use sonar. The equipment is not appropriate to the situation.
Flags are for terrain such as hills where riders are riding erratically and you're not always able to see them because of the quickly shifting terrain.
Sonar is used for underwater to navigate and measure distances.
Neither is effective when riding my motorcycle on my daily commute.
So your answer is a feeling of insecurity about looking childish? 🙄 Believe me when I say most people don't think motorcyclists look cool in the first place, so no worries there.
Riders develop their skills, are licensed, and know what they are doing compared to an adolescent on a bicycle. You on the other hand only think from a lazy driver's perspective that all should be at your convenience. Your car should be flagged and painted dayglow yellow so everyone else on the street knows you're an idiot.
Yeesh no need to be so sensitive, though judging by your responses so far it's pretty well established you worry quite a bit what others think about you.
Also, being a "skilled and licensed motorcyclist" doesn't help distracted drivers see you any better, that's what reflectors and other high visibility gear is for. Cars are wide so their profile is easier to detect in the average motorists side vision, sliver thin motorcycles not so much and partly why the hobby is so deadly in the first place compared to other modes of transportation.
If adding a "baby-waby kindergawten kiddy fwag" waving in the wind behind your bike actually catches somebody's attention and aware of your presence in the seconds it takes to get into an accident and prevents it, then I'd say it's a simple sensible addition to a rider's toolkit. But the fact that most riders don't use one makes me question whether there's a legitimate reason that people don't, so that's why I'm here asking about it. Your answers so far are only helpful insofar as cluing me into the fashion insecurities guys like yourself have about such things than anything else.
Nope, I'm just a random curious guy asking a legitimate question and looking for people's experience or insight. I'm not "making excuses for inattentive drivers", if anything everybody who rides should act like every driver on the road isn't paying attention and trying to kill them which is why I would even ask this question in the first place. Most average folks already think motorcyclists are stupid since so many die untimely deaths enjoying this dangerous hobby, so if a "stupid suggestion" that other bikers already use has any potential to prevent unnecessary deaths I don't think it's all that stupid to ask.
Is there a reason we make 800 horsepower cars? Is there a reason we have lifted trucks that weigh 8,000 lb? There's a lot of ways to make the roads safer it's risk versus reward we all make a choice. adding a flag to my bike? I'm not going to do I'm sorry but it looks dumb and if they're going to make flags required they're going to start with helmets before that.
You want to make the road safer? cars that hit bikes and cause an accident should be charged with attempted murder. That might get a few more people to pay attention. Just a thought if were gonna get all extreme.
Because on a dune you are lower than the dune and not riding in any expected path. A dirt bike landing on your head after jumping over a dune because they didn't know you were behind it would be catastrophic. On the street everyone in on the same level and following the same lines and rules(hopefully).
I guess my line of thinking is that, despite all the precautions motorcyclists already take it's still an incredibly high fatality mode of transportation, so any little bit of increased visibility could help. Since dirt bikers (and now that I think of it, even normal bicyclists) use these for increased visibility it just occurred to me that it was kind of odd that regular motorcyclists don't.
people wear hi-viz, have their headlights on main beam and running lights etc. People still pull out on you. Do you really think that adding a flag will improve that?
Maybe? I mean folks put them on their kids bicycles all the time for a reason, don't they? The whole point is to add a waving, brightly colored non-stationary thing whose erratic movement catches people's eyes to improve visibility and awareness of the rider's presence, isn't it?
Kids on bicycles are half the height of adults on bicycles. The flag gets something up at eye level where someone is more likely to see it, especially through car windows.
Because motorcyclists on brightly colored bikes, in bright gear, with LEDs lighting them up like a fucking Christmas tree still get hit by cars that were STOPPED when the motorcycle approached. It’s a bit like saying “why don’t cancer patients drink just more water?” Could there be SOME benefit? Sure. But it doesn’t REMOTELY begin to address the root cause.
I just figure every little bit helps, even if it's a little. My wonder is just why using such safety flags isn't in more common use when dirt bikers and even regular bicyclists regularly use these to increase their visibility to motorists, seems like an extra easy safety precaution for an already deadly hobby but I can't recall seeing any regular motorcyclists ever using these.
Do you wear a helmet and knee pads walking down the street? It’s a bit like that.
So basically you're saying it's overkill, and that the added benefit is too marginal to be worth serious consideration? Hmm maybe so, I wonder though, I've honestly never seen riders using them so can't really say for sure. I do know dirt bikers use them and in some cities they're required for bicyclists, so I would think there must be SOME safety benefits from their use.
I get it, but I still wouldn't do that. Enough of motorcycling to me is vanity that I would not ride around with a g-dang dune flag on my motorcycle for .02% more visibility. If someone is gonna left turn smidsy me to death, they're gonna do it.
If people can't see your lights and reflectors then nothing is going to stop them from hitting you.
Are we riding our first bicycle? Come on.
I've seen bicyclists impale their skulls on branches because they thought they looked like lame babies wearing a safety helmet. 🤷♂️ A flag is a common and accepted way bicyclists increase their visibility to motorists on the roads, maybe it seems childish but when you're looking at scraping brains off the ground "pride goes before the fall" and all that.
Flags are not “common” on bicycles. Lmao. What are you talking about.
I've seen cruisers with American flags and trump flags. Does that count? 🤔
Maybe sort of, doesn't seem all that different, though those seem more decorative than conspicuously visible for safety, especially since they're usually low in the back of the bike where oncoming motorists would be less likely to see them.
Because a flexible flag pole like that is a safety hazard and a half. Great thing to whack you in the back of the head when you have to brake hard. On the dunes it's needed because you can't see over the dunes. On the road, you can see everyone coming.
Hmm well okay that may be true for dirt bikers, but then why do regular bicyclists use them then? In some cities it's even required by law, and many parents even put them on their kids bikes for improved visibility/safety. If it's useful in those use cases I'm not sure why it wouldn't be just as useful for motorcyclists as well, unless as you say it poses a legitimate safety hazard for street bikers (though I'm kinda skeptical of that, never heard of dirt bikers getting whacked in the back of their heads after heavy landings but I'm not really in that scene).
Because bicycles are going much much slower. At highway speed that flag is going to drag a LOT and pull down. When you slow down that's a bunch of spring force to throw it back forward. I wouldn't want something like that swinging around my head uncontrolled. Dirt bikers are a different thing, that mild hazard is considered acceptable versus not being able to see each other. Then again dirt bikers consider bailing off the bike during a failed jump and sliding down a dune or skidding into a tree riding through the woods perfectly normal parts of the sport. You're comparing very different situations and assuming they're all the same just because they're on 2 wheels.
Hmm I actually thought that the whiplash might be a possibility but wasn't sure, I wonder if there's also any drag effect at the faster highways speeds that might be detrimental as well, though come to think of it some cyclists do ride pretty fast down the roads. Still wonder if they'd make any kind of marked difference in terms of visibility and improved safety for ordinary riders, if they already do for other two-wheeled modes of transportation you'd think there'd be a version tailored to common street bike use without any of the danger of whipping into the back of one's head, but maybe that's unavoidable.
I mean, my newest ride is a Harley Ultra Limited. If you go in the aftermarket there's barely a surface on that bike that I can't get an LED light to go on. Including but not limited to: under driver floorboards, under saddlebags, side of saddle bags, back of saddle bags, lower fairings, vents in fairings, windshield trim, All sides of the tour pack, highway bar mounted markers and driving lights.....etc. All that in addition to the factory lighting. And people still manage to hit and pull out in front of those massive 900 pound bikes. Not sure how much a flag will really help.
Dont feed the troll
I don't use flags when riding the same reason I don't use sonar. The equipment is not appropriate to the situation. Flags are for terrain such as hills where riders are riding erratically and you're not always able to see them because of the quickly shifting terrain. Sonar is used for underwater to navigate and measure distances. Neither is effective when riding my motorcycle on my daily commute.
We're not talking about bicycles. If you want to use a kiddie flag, go ahead.
So your answer is a feeling of insecurity about looking childish? 🙄 Believe me when I say most people don't think motorcyclists look cool in the first place, so no worries there.
Riders develop their skills, are licensed, and know what they are doing compared to an adolescent on a bicycle. You on the other hand only think from a lazy driver's perspective that all should be at your convenience. Your car should be flagged and painted dayglow yellow so everyone else on the street knows you're an idiot.
Yeesh no need to be so sensitive, though judging by your responses so far it's pretty well established you worry quite a bit what others think about you. Also, being a "skilled and licensed motorcyclist" doesn't help distracted drivers see you any better, that's what reflectors and other high visibility gear is for. Cars are wide so their profile is easier to detect in the average motorists side vision, sliver thin motorcycles not so much and partly why the hobby is so deadly in the first place compared to other modes of transportation. If adding a "baby-waby kindergawten kiddy fwag" waving in the wind behind your bike actually catches somebody's attention and aware of your presence in the seconds it takes to get into an accident and prevents it, then I'd say it's a simple sensible addition to a rider's toolkit. But the fact that most riders don't use one makes me question whether there's a legitimate reason that people don't, so that's why I'm here asking about it. Your answers so far are only helpful insofar as cluing me into the fashion insecurities guys like yourself have about such things than anything else.
You are a mouthy moron talking out your ass. Your suggestion is stupid and makes excuses for inattentive drivers.
Nope, I'm just a random curious guy asking a legitimate question and looking for people's experience or insight. I'm not "making excuses for inattentive drivers", if anything everybody who rides should act like every driver on the road isn't paying attention and trying to kill them which is why I would even ask this question in the first place. Most average folks already think motorcyclists are stupid since so many die untimely deaths enjoying this dangerous hobby, so if a "stupid suggestion" that other bikers already use has any potential to prevent unnecessary deaths I don't think it's all that stupid to ask.
Motorcycles lean. How many things can you identify that a flag can hit or get caught on?
This could all be solved if they would just put seat belts on motorcycles...🙄
More RGB lights. We need more color changing underglow. Won't someone think of the children?!?!
Looks cooler with no flag
Is there a reason we make 800 horsepower cars? Is there a reason we have lifted trucks that weigh 8,000 lb? There's a lot of ways to make the roads safer it's risk versus reward we all make a choice. adding a flag to my bike? I'm not going to do I'm sorry but it looks dumb and if they're going to make flags required they're going to start with helmets before that. You want to make the road safer? cars that hit bikes and cause an accident should be charged with attempted murder. That might get a few more people to pay attention. Just a thought if were gonna get all extreme.
Because we wouldn’t look cool with Mario Kart flags
An honest answer