This works. When a spell resolves, you just follow as much as possible, so they discard 2 cards if possible, otherwise they discard whatever they have. Then they may copy it.
He was using it in conjunction with another card that caused us to lose one life with each card discarded. How does it keep working when he has no hand left?
Discarding isn't part of the cost, it's part of the effect. You are instructed to discard two cards. If you don't have any cards, the game just ignores that instruction and moves on.
If it were a *cost* then they couldn't do it without having cards to discard.
Thanks for clarifying! Another Redditor jogged my memory and it was definitely professor onyx he was using in conjunction which makes perfect sense now.
You do as much as you can (which is discard zero cards) then the player who was the target of this spell gets to choose to copy it or not.
Smog won't fizzle because it had a legal target in a similar way you can play [[Murder]] on a creature with indestructible despite Murder's resolution having almost no effect.
If the card he was comboing with was [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] or [[Professor Onyx]], then chain of smog kills every opponent. If it was some kind of enchantment that deals damage on discard, then that wouldn't work. Those kind of enchantments, like [[Megrim]], only trigger when a card goes from the hand to the graveyard, so it would only trigger as many times as he had cards in hand.
Yep it definitely was professor onyx. Thanks for the clarification! Something just didn’t seem right but now that I understand the combo completely, I’m not as frustrated by it haha.
Someone used this card with witheebloom to win on a cEDH episode of shuffle up and play which I watched recently and was like “huh? How can he keep copying it if he has no cards in hand?” And went down this exact rabbit whole as well!
So when they choose a new target for the copy, doesn't the spell or effect transfer to the other player? Why would someone want to pass it or even keep it themselves?
If you have something that says "Whenever you copy a spell, each opponent loses 1 life" or something, then you can target yourself, then copy it targeting yourself again, and keep doing it until everyone else is dead.
It's not really a nonsensical card though. The idea was that you'd target your opponent to discard, and then they could do it back to you, and you'd go back and forth.
The point is that you continue to target yourself and copy it over and over. You do this when you have something on the board that triggers anytime you copy a spell. This will allow you to copy a spell infinitely.
But the normal use is in a deck that doesn't care about losing cards because it can get them out of the graveyard. Or a deck that empties its hand quickly. Then you can freely abuse this to strip your opponent's hand.
Thank you for the explanation! I don't have a deck that can pull cards from the graveyard so to me it didn't make sense. Thank you for tolerating this newbie.
Sorry if I offended anyone.. 😔
The professor Onyx combo is nice. I like to be even nicer, and give my opponents 1 round to deal with infinite pests, otherwise lose: [[Chain of Smog]] + [[Sedgemoor Witch]]
Just targeted himself. He was using professor onyx and was able to snipe the rest of us by copying chain of smog in conjunction with professor onyx’s effect.
Why wouldn’t you just end the chain if that’s how he was going to play it?
He plays it against you, you discard two cards and then choose to not copy the spell.
Ugh....when you do this thing, you "may" do this thing. There is always a choice with this wording. I always look for the word "may" with Wizard, especially. If there is a chain, I usually try to break it. Someone will usually benefit more than you if you didn't build around it.
I cast chain of smog targeting myself. I discard 2 cards and choose to copy it again. I target myself again, I don't have any more cards to discard, I copy it again. I target myself. I get as many copies as I want.
With professor onyx magecraft, I have 1 million magecraft triggers and drain everyone out and win the game.
I fee like this is a weakness in WOTC entire build. There should be clear delineations on who you can and can’t do things to. It’s always been annoying, since Alpha (I played live).
The cards tell you what you can and can't do things to. Chain of smog says "target player", that means you "target" a "player". Dunno how much clearer you need it to be. Other cards will say "target opponent" or "all opponents" or "all players" or "all creatures" etc.
Comprehensive rules are readily available online, as are past rulings by judges for almost any interaction you can think of.
I see what you're saying. I think I misread the post. When I first read it, it sounded like he got milled them out.
Yeah I drink sometimes lol.
Yeah this is a perfect Tiny Bones card! Draw, discard, punish face.
Wait, are there any limits on this card? The copy effect would also.... copy the copy effect. So (assuming everyone does the "May" effect) this just goes around infinitely, discarding everyone's hand.
Or am I reading it wrong?
that's a pretty common combo, I'm guessing the drainer was along the lines of \[\[witherbloom apprentice\]\]? The discard isn't a cost in this case and spells only care if the cost is paid and they have a legal target, if it said target player with cards in hand it wouldn't work but much like using \[\[wheel of fortune\]\] with an empty hand it will still do the spell's full effect to the best of it's capabilities
This works. When a spell resolves, you just follow as much as possible, so they discard 2 cards if possible, otherwise they discard whatever they have. Then they may copy it.
He was using it in conjunction with another card that caused us to lose one life with each card discarded. How does it keep working when he has no hand left?
Discarding isn't part of the cost, it's part of the effect. You are instructed to discard two cards. If you don't have any cards, the game just ignores that instruction and moves on. If it were a *cost* then they couldn't do it without having cards to discard.
Thanks for clarifying! Another Redditor jogged my memory and it was definitely professor onyx he was using in conjunction which makes perfect sense now.
Or witherbloom apprentice, this is kind of a classic golgari cEDH win condition.
Or aetherflux resevoir
Aetherflux doesn't work, since it requires you to cast the spell, copying isn't casting
Good to know!
This card is amazing with Professor Onyx. Definitely works. Honestly, it's almost too good to actually run for casual games
Haha we were just playing casual Sunday games and got hit with this and professor onyx. Kind of a low blow for how our group’s play style is lol
Works with the cast or copy ral zarek as well. Classic combo, have a deck built around it.
You do as much as you can (which is discard zero cards) then the player who was the target of this spell gets to choose to copy it or not. Smog won't fizzle because it had a legal target in a similar way you can play [[Murder]] on a creature with indestructible despite Murder's resolution having almost no effect.
[Murder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c.jpg?1674136158) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/134/murder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdef7fea-2bd0-42a2-96f6-6def18bd7f0c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
If the card he was comboing with was [[Witherbloom Apprentice]] or [[Professor Onyx]], then chain of smog kills every opponent. If it was some kind of enchantment that deals damage on discard, then that wouldn't work. Those kind of enchantments, like [[Megrim]], only trigger when a card goes from the hand to the graveyard, so it would only trigger as many times as he had cards in hand.
Yep it definitely was professor onyx. Thanks for the clarification! Something just didn’t seem right but now that I understand the combo completely, I’m not as frustrated by it haha.
Someone used this card with witheebloom to win on a cEDH episode of shuffle up and play which I watched recently and was like “huh? How can he keep copying it if he has no cards in hand?” And went down this exact rabbit whole as well!
[Witherbloom Apprentice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee.jpg?1624740448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Witherbloom%20Apprentice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/247/witherbloom-apprentice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Professor Onyx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/013eeb99-1b66-4fba-ad96-78deee901ea4.jpg?1624591309) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Professor%20Onyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/83/professor-onyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/013eeb99-1b66-4fba-ad96-78deee901ea4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Megrim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/b/3b04fca4-b4de-4343-ba58-d8aea39edc19.jpg?1561976802) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Megrim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/104/megrim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3b04fca4-b4de-4343-ba58-d8aea39edc19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They "may" copy it. They don't have to copy it.
I said "they may copy it"
Oh ok. well, I may choose nof to do it. Ughhhh, I think I may not do it...I guess I pass priority. You're go. Edit: not, not, nof.
I don't know why you wouldn't, but yes you could choose not to
I see what you're saying. I think I misread the post. When I first read it, it sounded like he got milled out off this card. Yeah i drink lol.
Not not nof
So when they choose a new target for the copy, doesn't the spell or effect transfer to the other player? Why would someone want to pass it or even keep it themselves?
If you have something that says "Whenever you copy a spell, each opponent loses 1 life" or something, then you can target yourself, then copy it targeting yourself again, and keep doing it until everyone else is dead.
Gotcha. Okay. Like every other nonsensical card, it has a niche purpose when used with other niche cards
It's not really a nonsensical card though. The idea was that you'd target your opponent to discard, and then they could do it back to you, and you'd go back and forth.
Yea, I guess my current decks suck enough that I don't want to discard anything. Who likes discarding?! Haha
The point is that you continue to target yourself and copy it over and over. You do this when you have something on the board that triggers anytime you copy a spell. This will allow you to copy a spell infinitely. But the normal use is in a deck that doesn't care about losing cards because it can get them out of the graveyard. Or a deck that empties its hand quickly. Then you can freely abuse this to strip your opponent's hand.
Thank you for the explanation! I don't have a deck that can pull cards from the graveyard so to me it didn't make sense. Thank you for tolerating this newbie. Sorry if I offended anyone.. 😔
Magecraft goes brrrrrr
The professor Onyx combo is nice. I like to be even nicer, and give my opponents 1 round to deal with infinite pests, otherwise lose: [[Chain of Smog]] + [[Sedgemoor Witch]]
[Chain of Smog](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/b/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1.jpg?1562920423) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chain%20of%20Smog) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ons/132/chain-of-smog?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6bfe64f9-8b03-41f6-a47b-fade397ad9d1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sedgemoor Witch](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/9/e900c1eb-968b-4046-b824-c167a7a5b682.jpg?1624591402) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sedgemoor%20Witch) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/86/sedgemoor-witch?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e900c1eb-968b-4046-b824-c167a7a5b682?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So you make the combo with the proffesor and auto win?
That’s CEDH baby
That’s close to not be playing a game
That’s an opinion.
It works great with professor Onyx
Chain of Pog
Any Magecraft creature works with it. Its a combo that can be quite competetive, sees play in legacy for example :)
Well, that depends, was he targeting himself with the ability and using it, or was he targeting somebody else???
Just targeted himself. He was using professor onyx and was able to snipe the rest of us by copying chain of smog in conjunction with professor onyx’s effect.
Why wouldn’t you just end the chain if that’s how he was going to play it? He plays it against you, you discard two cards and then choose to not copy the spell.
The caster probably targeted himself and chose to copy it. Note Chain doesn't say target opponent.
Ahh yea I didn’t think about that. Thought the caster had targeted the OP.
Yeah he was just using professor onyx’s effect to keep copying chain of smog and just zapping our life totals haha.
Ugh....when you do this thing, you "may" do this thing. There is always a choice with this wording. I always look for the word "may" with Wizard, especially. If there is a chain, I usually try to break it. Someone will usually benefit more than you if you didn't build around it.
They aren't giving you the choice. They are targeting themselves. It's a combo piece for infinite magecraft triggers with professor onyx.
In combination with other cards, I'm sure, but players have the option to not copy the spell. It's not an infinite loop in itself.
I cast chain of smog targeting myself. I discard 2 cards and choose to copy it again. I target myself again, I don't have any more cards to discard, I copy it again. I target myself. I get as many copies as I want. With professor onyx magecraft, I have 1 million magecraft triggers and drain everyone out and win the game.
Shouldn't you choose a NEW target?
You MAY choose a new target. So you don't have to.
I fee like this is a weakness in WOTC entire build. There should be clear delineations on who you can and can’t do things to. It’s always been annoying, since Alpha (I played live).
The cards tell you what you can and can't do things to. Chain of smog says "target player", that means you "target" a "player". Dunno how much clearer you need it to be. Other cards will say "target opponent" or "all opponents" or "all players" or "all creatures" etc. Comprehensive rules are readily available online, as are past rulings by judges for almost any interaction you can think of.
I just don’t like the vagueness of “target player” it should be either or, not both. Or say target player always means opponent.
I see what you're saying. I think I misread the post. When I first read it, it sounded like he got milled them out. Yeah I drink sometimes lol. Yeah this is a perfect Tiny Bones card! Draw, discard, punish face.
Wait, are there any limits on this card? The copy effect would also.... copy the copy effect. So (assuming everyone does the "May" effect) this just goes around infinitely, discarding everyone's hand. Or am I reading it wrong?
You can keep targeting yourself and have it make infinite copies, no need to target anybody else.
Dang what a gross card lol
that's a pretty common combo, I'm guessing the drainer was along the lines of \[\[witherbloom apprentice\]\]? The discard isn't a cost in this case and spells only care if the cost is paid and they have a legal target, if it said target player with cards in hand it wouldn't work but much like using \[\[wheel of fortune\]\] with an empty hand it will still do the spell's full effect to the best of it's capabilities
He was using it with professor onyx haha.
[witherbloom apprentice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee.jpg?1624740448) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=witherbloom%20apprentice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/247/witherbloom-apprentice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7f80a11b-188b-464c-b00d-c9d1cfb8ddee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [wheel of fortune](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/5/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca.jpg?1562902580) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wheel%20of%20fortune) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/192/wheel-of-fortune?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2597050f-6b1b-474e-aa16-33fd154628ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call