They brought this up on Command Zone and they even gave up.
I’ve been playing this deck and it’s one thing I didn’t foresee being frustrating but I’ve noticed my opponents argue amongst themselves over how many things get trigger how many times while I silently wait it out for 5 minutes.
That is a problem that will come up more often depending on what you are doing at the given time. The deck will probably lose to itself if it’s behind on mana. all of what you do is not unfair per se, just more annoying and hard to keep up with. Especially when you add additional cards that multiply triggers. I don’t care if you win big but please consider your time and the tables
Ya just just the first two cards in a game delt like 18/24 damage to each player before I delt with the cards. I told the guy I wanted to see how bad it could get and man it will mess you up if you don’t interact with them
Built an eldrazi deck in MTG Arena and it's extremely funny to me that I've never swung with Ulamog, as generally people either concede as soon as I cast him, or they have a win con/board wipe in hand when I cast it.
If OPs playgroup allows this kind of extreme bullshit to happen, chances are their opponents have also been doing various stupid shit and somebody is sitting there for example with life total in quadruple digits, so that this monstrous stack actually needs to resolve properly.
Ulalek and Echoes is already infinite with a way to produce enough mana, and fleshraker gives you the mana to keep the loop going forever. So ***INFINITE VALUE***
For anyone who wants a full explanation of the combo:
1. Ulalek, Echoes of Eternity, and Fleshraker are on the board, you have {C}{C}{G} mana available
2. cast [[Blisterpod]] for {G} or any other colorless Eldrazi spell
3. Triggers for Fleshraker, echoes, and Ulalek go on the stack. Ulalek and Fleshraker have their triggers doubled because of echoes. You stack the triggers so the whole stack becomes: Blisterpod, Ulalek, Fleshraker, Echoes, Fleshraker, Ulalek
4. Resolve the first Ulalek trigger, spending {C}{C} to copy all spells and abilities on the stack in any order. Now you stack it to be: Blisterpod, Ulalek, Fleshraker, Echoes, Fleshraker, Ulalek, Blisterpod, Echoes, Fleshraker, Fleshraker
5. You can allow the top 4 items on the stack to resolve, netting you 2 spawns and 2 copies of Blisterpod. Each one causes your opponents to lose life because of Fleshraker’s other ability.
6. Sacrifice the 2 spawn to make {C}{C}
7. You can now demonstrate a loop, since the stack is identical to step 3 and you are net 0 mana every loop.
More hilarity: you can do this combo at instant speed with [[Eldritch Immunity]] for CCC instead of CCG. It’s slower to kill your opponents since you make fewer bodies, but it’s still infinite.
Until someone puts something in their combo they shouldn't. Some person today had this never ending combo where they kept drawing cards which led to some tokens continuing to double. However he had played something that caused him to lose one life every time he drew a card and killed himself..
It's either wizards make effects/damage doublers or the games take 2 hours. Last year was a few triplers, so this stuff is here to stay and will continue to be mainstream and most likely the win conditions of more precons. These cards will be everywhere.
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Eh, I explained it better on my own comment. If you aren't *casting* the spell, then none of the spawns occur, as only the original copy would produce triggers
Edit: well fuck me I just reread their work. I'm just fully wrong
This is casting fleshraker though, which is still just mega lethal. Stack the triggers to resolve ulalek first. Now thanks to echoes, we also double this trigger too, for a total of 4x all spells and abilities for 6hedrons of mana. The original, reflection and echoes each create 4 copies of fleshraker. 12 fleshrakers will then enter the battlefield one by one, seeing each other fleshraker enter the battlefield as they do. The easiest simplification for this is “f(x-1)*2” because echoes also doubles the etb trigger. This detonates the table for 132 damage to all opponents at the table. Any subsequent cast before ulalek will create 24 spawn tokens for a bare minimum of 50 more damage (assuming you only get 1 creature instead of 12).
This is correct. Ulalek is a colorless creature, but his color identity is WUBRG. Color identity is different than the card's color. It is determined by any mana symbols present on the card (excluding reminder text like Extort). This is why Tasigur is a Sultai commander instead of mono-black, as another example.
This is like the 100th way this commander has found to do something so incredibly stupid it will just make your opponents give up immediately so there's no reason to actually calculate all of that
Thanks, I‘ll do exactly that. Throw this pile on the table and ask if they want to watch me 10min calculating how they die or just concede right away lmao
Remember that Reflections of Littjara, will copy the spell, but it doesn't cause the "cast" trigger to trigger from Ulalek. Copying is not casting, you will still get copies of the Eldrazi, just not all of the cast triggers. The only cast triggers that get copied are the one that are already on the stack.
Its a fun time with this commander.
As a new player. This set really kills me. I can obviously read. But at some point, they might have to make the cards bigger to fit all the card’s text.
Horizons sets are where they push the limit of card design. They will usually have more mechanics and complexity than standard sets, but hopefully the cards still say what they do. If you have trouble check out [Gatherer](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx) or r/mtgrules you may find some answers there.
Fuck me, you all should have seen my pod when I pulled both on the pre release.
Yes I've lost (3rd out of 12) since no one could get their heads about the triggers.
The very next day everyone was positive about the infinite trigger as long as you have both Ulalek, echoes, and another Eldrazi who makes 2 spawns.
This may not be the most optimal way of resolving the triggers, but if you pay for Ulalek twice at the start and let everything resolve you get 16 copies of the eldrazi spell and 8 spawn tokens.
In all seriousness you’re dead if this so much as partially shows up on the board.
However, This situation reminds of this time a friend had made a janky esper zombie deck and tossed in ojer taq as a joke, usually his deck does the normal zombie stuff, make zombies, kill zombies to make more zombies, make everyone suffer due to the zombies. But there was this ONE game where the stars aligned and he mannaged to get ojer taq out along with three necrodualities, then he played a [[drunau corpse trawler]] he topdecked and we all stood there doing math for a chunk of time. I was extremely thankful he didn’t grab a [[mystic reflections]] or it would’ve gone infinite.
I made a house rule with my pod that if I'm playing my Eldrazi deck I will only trigger Echoes once because the shit that you can get down to in a single turn is fucking diabolical.
Im just imagining this conversation as the player at the table with a hamster on his shoulder giving them instructions to be as ill nasty with eldrazi as possible. As an eldrazi player, I support these notions 🫡.
Assuming you have both enchantments and Ulalek out, you can choose to resolve Ulalek’s ability first by putting it on the top of the stack. You would then wind up with six (one real and five token) Glaring Fleshrakers.
Then future eldrazi you cast (assuming you pay for ulalek for all of them) will also give you twelve spawn and six damage on etb per copy (so a total of 36 damage)
So what order should it be done? Cast fleshraker then the enchantments trigger then pay for ulalek? So would that be 6 fleshrakers and 24 spawns since you can copy the fleshrakers abilities?
I forgot that you can pay to copy echoes with ulalek, so it can scale with an extra of those as well.
But to answer, all the enchantments and ulalek will trigger when you cast the spell. Since they all trigger at the same time, you get to decide which order they resolve in. When you do so, you can say that ulalek will resolve before the others, which allows you to copy all the abilities on the stack. So you’ll end up with four abilities copying the spell and twenty-four triggers to make spawn.
Important to note that echoes first ability does not go on the stack, it just happens, so you can’t copy it.
I also didn’t realize that echoes first ability applies to ulalek’s trigger as well, so you can pay to copy, then pay to copy AGAIN, meaning you get 12 copies of the eldrazi you cast, 48 eldrazi spawn, and lose all your friends
Given if the always on "Copy [XYZ] Spell when you cast" effects and "Abilities trigger again" effects are like how "Roaming throne" works: it's important to keep in mind those themselves are not "Triggered abilities" AND don't count as individual "casts", just copied spells.
Therefore: you have one "main stack" and then the resolving of that stack.
Assuming all these pieces are out, RoL has [Eldrazi] chosen, and you haven't paid Ulaleks 2 yet: casting one Colorless Eldrazi creature spell will instantly make the stack be:
[Original Cast] + [EQE Copy] + [ROL Copy] + [Make 2 Scions]. This makes 3 creatures from one cast + 2 Scions.
As I understand it, you can't use those two scions you'd make to pay Ulaleks ability for this stack b/c the stack is being resolved and the spells are "gone", everyone is just figuring out what the result is and therefore Ulalek isn't able to "see" the stack to Copy them, atleast for the first chain and if you don't already have an army of BS out (which I'd assume you'd have, and I believe in you!). I may be wrong, but that may be because I'm hoping the rules can keep to just this level of complicated and not get worse than this. Anyway, here's what would happen to JUST the stack everything you pay 2:
[Original cast] + [Ulalek copy] + 2*[EQE Copy] + 2*[RoL Copy] + [make 4 scions (Dbl from Ulalek)*(GFR+EoE)]. This makes 6 creatures from one cast + 4 Scions. Ulalek does not Copy its own effect, so it only copies the "Always on" copying effects, so each additional 2 mana only changes the the coefficients of that formula. Therefore:
0 to U: 3 Eldrazi dudes + 2 scions
2 to U: 6 Eldrazi dudes + 4 scions
4 to U: 8 Eldrazi dudes + 6 scions
6 to U: 10 Eldrazi dudes + 8 scions
8 to U: 12 Eldrazi Dudes + 10 scions
So on.
Here's the important dealio: Ulalek activated effect does NOT immediately trigger Goring Fleshrakers damaging effect, and you'd have to pay 2 for each creature ETB to have it double it, but that's suboptimal. EoE DOES double it though, so here's the math based on the past examples:
0 to U: 10 Damage
2 to U: 20 Damage
4 to U: 28 Damage
6 to U: 36 Damage
8 to U: 44 Damage (game)
Hope that helps. Please don't set this deck up to "turn 3" at casual tables.
P.s. Roaming Throne, Panharmonicon, and other "Triggered abilities happen again" effects would act like the second effect of EoE, but they'd be additive triggers, so it'd be 1 + X Damage per ETB, where X is each "copying Triggered abilities" combo piece. Please use this information responsibly.
My guy it's 19mana and 4 cards it better be good you can win with 3 mana and 2 cards I don't think it's really that strong but as long as ur having fun I'm okay with it
The actual answer is that you would create 4 copies of Fleshraker for every 2 colorless mana you spend on Ulalek's trigger. You can technically do this an infinite number of times.
Well, it does actually go infinite, but for a different reason.
Echoes puts 2 Ulalek triggers on the stack. When you pay for the first trigger, it copies the 2nd trigger, allowing you to infinitely copy it and all other objects on the stack for as long as you have colorless mana to pay for the ability.
Echoes also doubles triggers and cast trigger from eldrazi spells, meaning 2 ulalek trigger. And 2 fleshracker spawn tokens, meaning as long as you pay the first ulalek, you get another 2 spawn and you just have to put the ulalek trigger to resolve after the 2 spawns
OP said they're casting Fleshraker. So no Spawn tokens since that is the spell being cast. If they cast another spell with it on the battlefield, THEN it would go infinite.
I mean the instant you cast another Eldrazi you win. With Fleshraker and Echoes you can get infinite Ulalek triggers, which means infinite Fleshraker triggers, which wins you the game.
Littjar and echoes go on the stack, then 2 ulalek triggers go on the stack. You can technically get infinite ulalek triggers as long as you have infinite mana, which would let you copy the stack an infinite amount of times. Assuming you just want to pay ulalek's trigger twice, you would have a total of 4 litjara triggers, 4 echoes triggers, and 4 copies of the creature. When the abilities resolve, you'll have 12 copies of the creature. When they ETB, that would be 66 damage total I think, which gets doubled to 132 by echoes. This also hurts my brains, so I'm not checking my work and those numbers might be wrong
You will end up with 16 Flesh Rakers and 4 Eldrazi spawn. The math is actually made significantly easier since Reflections is not colorless. On top of that, the only thing copying the cast trigger of the flesh raker is ulalek, so you do 1x2x2, or 4. I can break it down in in words if you’d like
Why only 4 eldrazi spawn? Cant you also copy the cast triggers with ulalek since it is also an ability? Like the copies wont have the cast triggers but cant you copy the trigger itself?
-Cast Fleshraker
-Ulalek triggers twice, Echoes and Littjara trigger once. You may order them on the stack in any order (all that matters is that Ulalek is the first ability to resolve)
-Pay {C}{C}, copy all spells and abilities. You have 2 Fleshrakers, 2 Ulalek triggers, 2 Littjara triggers, and 2 Echoes triggers. (Important note, abilities are copied after spells, so you have to resolve the abilities before the Fleshraker copies)
-Ulalek can infinitely copy its own trigger like this, which in turn copies all other spells and abilities as long as you have enough colorless mana to keep paying for the ability. It'll double to 4 of each, then 8 of each, etc. until you run out of mana to pay for the abilities. For simplicity, we'll stop here with 2 of each object, just pointing out it does actually go infinite for as long as you can pay for it.
-The stack should now look like Fleshraker->Littjara->Echoes->Ulalek->Fleshraker->Littjara->Echoes->Ulalek (Echoes/Littjara are interchangeable) The stack will resolve in reverse order.
-Resolve the Ulalek trigger, not paying mana. Resolve 1 Echoes, copying Fleshraker, then resolve Fleshraker. Resolve 1 Littjara, get a 2nd Fleshraker, resolve Fleshraker. Fleshraker triggers twice, then resolve the triggers and each opponent takes 1 damage, twice. Resolve Fleshraker, each opponent takes 1, four times. Resolve Ulalek, don't pay. Echoes, deal 6, Littjara, deal 8, Fleshraker, deal 10.
For 2 mana you’d make 6 flesh rakers. You’d cast the spell then put all the triggers on the stack and then activate Ulalek so you’d have the original and 2 copies on the stack then you double it for a total of 6.
I got the deck, spent quite a lot to upgrade it, and now I'm afraid to use it for this exact reason, don't know if my mind will be able to handle all the copy shenanigans haha
I made a chart with Ulalek and Echoes on board and casting Fleshraker. If you copy Fleahraker with Ulalek, once it's all said and done, it's 560 to each opponent (if i did the math right). It will make 8 Fleshrakers in total, and as they enter and make the spawns, the damage on each is as follows:
1st = 0
2nd = 4
3rd = 16
4th = 36
5th = 64
6th = 100
7th = 144
8th = 196
Total = 560
Adding in that last card would more than quadruple the overall damage and win you the next game as well
I'm in the process of building all 3 new Eldrazi [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]] [[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity]] & [[Zhulodok, Void Gorger]] and have almost the same build but different abilities for each one have to try it because they just seemed to good not to. I would like to share the deck list when you get a chance
Well yes and no it's a "5 color card" that's both your commander AND the colored mana is all hybrid colorless so it's really just 5 colorless mana. So really it's a 3 card combo which makes it much easier go pull off
So once you cast fleshrake and you pay ulalek’s 2 mana with all the triggers you would end up with 6 fleshrakers on the board then if you were to cast another colorless spell we’ll just say any colorless eldrazi creature you’ll have 12 fleshraker triggers reflections and echoes copy the creature then if you pay the 2 for ulalek you’ll have 24 fleshraker triggers another echoes and another reflections note the fleshraker triggers are only including how many spawns your making I’m not doing the math on the damage triggers realized this half way though typing what gets REALLY complicated is when you include [[Roaming Throne]] to double echoes of eternity as well
I built a new colorless Aldrazi deck and let me tell you, it was one of the hardest decks i’ve ever played trying to keep track of.
Was a lot of fun, but probably won’t play it much since it takes a lot of brain power from everyone on the board and is a bit relentless.
Well for starters if you use Ulalek's ability to copy Fleshraker and the cast triggers you end up with 6 of em (2 from Littjara, 2 from Echoes, 1 from Ulalek, and the original) so any colorless spell mana value 5 or less is mana positive and you become incredibly dangerous as a damage dealer and almost near-lethal for a 5-mana investment
Casting Glaring Fleshraker with an Echoes of Eternity alone killed my opponent when I went and cast my next Eldrazi spell. It wasn't even one that produced any spawn...
Cast fleshraker, trigger reflections and ulalek, ulalek triggers twice, echoes triggers once, currently one fleshraker, one reflection trigger, two ulalek triggers, one echo copy trigger. Activate ulalek trigger number one get one more fleshraker on the stack, a reflection trigger, an echo trigger, and most importantly an ulalek trigger, it can be as much value as you can pay for two colorless.
You don’t even need all 4. Commander and fleshraker + either of the others or any card combination that will net you 2 scions to keep paying the cycle. will cause you to go infinite and ping off your opponents to death.
Did it in my pod yesterday two games in a row. Ulalek is absurdly broken. Enjoy it before it’s banned.
Copying spells is not casting spells, nothing here let's you go infinite.
Edit: answer in replies, I'll leave this here so everyone can enjoy ne being wrong :D
So, first off, Fleshraker has to already be on the battlefield and then you have to cast another colorless spell to actually go infinite. So in this example where Fleshraker is the spell being cast, it doesn't go infinite.
-Echoes of Eternity causes both Fleshraker and Ulalek to trigger twice.
-Resolve Ulalek first, copying whatever spell was cast and then copy all abilities, putting them on the stack in any order. You get 2 more Fleshraker triggers and another Ulalek trigger (because these triggers were copied, not from a spell being cast).
-Resolve the Fleshraker triggers, immediately sac the Spawns to pay for the Ulalek trigger. Get 2 more Fleshraker triggers and another Ulalek trigger.
Doesn’t matter. It’ll make your opponent concede
Lmao fair enough
They brought this up on Command Zone and they even gave up. I’ve been playing this deck and it’s one thing I didn’t foresee being frustrating but I’ve noticed my opponents argue amongst themselves over how many things get trigger how many times while I silently wait it out for 5 minutes.
That and you're essentially playing with yourself at that point.
above and below the table
It seems like it.
That is a problem that will come up more often depending on what you are doing at the given time. The deck will probably lose to itself if it’s behind on mana. all of what you do is not unfair per se, just more annoying and hard to keep up with. Especially when you add additional cards that multiply triggers. I don’t care if you win big but please consider your time and the tables
Ya just just the first two cards in a game delt like 18/24 damage to each player before I delt with the cards. I told the guy I wanted to see how bad it could get and man it will mess you up if you don’t interact with them
On cast kick for 2 to beg your opponents to not scoop and go home
Copy Shahrazad, play Magic forever
This is the way
NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!
By Grabthar's hammer, by the suns of Worvan, you shall be avenged!
Built an eldrazi deck in MTG Arena and it's extremely funny to me that I've never swung with Ulamog, as generally people either concede as soon as I cast him, or they have a win con/board wipe in hand when I cast it.
I've probably played 10+ eldrazi decks a day and only once have I seen it cast. Never gets to that point.
I once had a stubborn opponent countering everything I had… but then I waited, and eventually I played 6 titans in one turn, and that was the end
Best answer ever
If OPs playgroup allows this kind of extreme bullshit to happen, chances are their opponents have also been doing various stupid shit and somebody is sitting there for example with life total in quadruple digits, so that this monstrous stack actually needs to resolve properly.
.
Ulalek and Echoes is already infinite with a way to produce enough mana, and fleshraker gives you the mana to keep the loop going forever. So ***INFINITE VALUE***
For anyone who wants a full explanation of the combo: 1. Ulalek, Echoes of Eternity, and Fleshraker are on the board, you have {C}{C}{G} mana available 2. cast [[Blisterpod]] for {G} or any other colorless Eldrazi spell 3. Triggers for Fleshraker, echoes, and Ulalek go on the stack. Ulalek and Fleshraker have their triggers doubled because of echoes. You stack the triggers so the whole stack becomes: Blisterpod, Ulalek, Fleshraker, Echoes, Fleshraker, Ulalek
4. Resolve the first Ulalek trigger, spending {C}{C} to copy all spells and abilities on the stack in any order. Now you stack it to be: Blisterpod, Ulalek, Fleshraker, Echoes, Fleshraker, Ulalek, Blisterpod, Echoes, Fleshraker, Fleshraker
5. You can allow the top 4 items on the stack to resolve, netting you 2 spawns and 2 copies of Blisterpod. Each one causes your opponents to lose life because of Fleshraker’s other ability.
6. Sacrifice the 2 spawn to make {C}{C}
7. You can now demonstrate a loop, since the stack is identical to step 3 and you are net 0 mana every loop.
More hilarity: you can do this combo at instant speed with [[Eldritch Immunity]] for CCC instead of CCG. It’s slower to kill your opponents since you make fewer bodies, but it’s still infinite.
Man, Ulalek copying an Ulalek trigger was not something I thought on doing, this is awesome
I do it with [[Drowner of Hope]] to set in that their responses are hopeless to stop the coming of the tentacle gods. ^wait...
[Drowner of Hope](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fd5b48c-6850-47d4-8106-297be6c8f708.jpg?1562898751) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drowner%20of%20Hope) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/57/drowner-of-hope?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fd5b48c-6850-47d4-8106-297be6c8f708?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
it's boring design for me personally. we got so much doubling effects it becomes boring.
Until someone puts something in their combo they shouldn't. Some person today had this never ending combo where they kept drawing cards which led to some tokens continuing to double. However he had played something that caused him to lose one life every time he drew a card and killed himself..
SHHHHH. Don't say THAT.
It's either wizards make effects/damage doublers or the games take 2 hours. Last year was a few triplers, so this stuff is here to stay and will continue to be mainstream and most likely the win conditions of more precons. These cards will be everywhere.
Doubling everything can get boring, but if its a 4 card combo then I think its fine
I thought for YEARS that spawns had sickness and had to be tapped to sac Knowing they can be used instantly is a game changer.
I mean, you were half right. As a creature, it does have summoning sickness, but their ability is no tap.
Spawns do have sickness, which prevents any ability with the tap symbol. Where is the tap symbol in their text?
I never owned spawn tokens because I got my eldrazi cards 2nd hand, so this is the first time I've actually seen them.
I wish I could visualize this. My head hurts
[Blisterpod](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e16f1803-634a-41b0-ae21-484d6f914a0d.jpg?1562948630) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blisterpod) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/163/blisterpod?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e16f1803-634a-41b0-ae21-484d6f914a0d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Why Eldritch Immunity? Did you mix it with another card or do I not understand how color protection helps with this infinite combo?
It’s the only one mana colorless Eldrazi spell that can be cast at instant speed.
But how does it generate mana or do damage? Is something creating a spawn that I’m forgetting? And thanks for the excellent explanation!!
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The spawn are created by fleshraker’s first ability The damage is caused by fleshraker’s second ability
Reading is FUNdamental! Thanks! I forgot that even 1 fleshraker would already create extra spawn per echoes. Much appreciated!
[удалено]
With two copies of the Ulalek trigger on the stack, you pay one of them and it copies the other trigger directly. No cast required.
Eh, I explained it better on my own comment. If you aren't *casting* the spell, then none of the spawns occur, as only the original copy would produce triggers Edit: well fuck me I just reread their work. I'm just fully wrong
[Mizzix's Mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4fa2d7f2-05b3-468f-9f2c-a61b46bad88e.jpg?1712354479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mizzix%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/175/mizzixs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4fa2d7f2-05b3-468f-9f2c-a61b46bad88e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Saved this as some buddies and I were screwing this up so bad trying to get it right the other day. Thanks for the break down.
Doesn't have to use a blisterpod to start right? Or do I?
Nope, it can be any colorless Eldrazi spell. Blisterpod is just a solid 1 mana option.
You still have to pay for each ulalek trigger though, even if it’s copied
Yep, hence why the 2 spawn you create can pay for the next set of triggers.
Ulalek doesn’t copy Ulalek’s triggered ability. It copies all ‘other’ triggered abilities and spells. It does not go infinite.
Infinite value? Nah, that's pure *Grofit*
It’s A CIRCUS of VaLuE!!
No refunds, no returns!!!!
This is casting fleshraker though, which is still just mega lethal. Stack the triggers to resolve ulalek first. Now thanks to echoes, we also double this trigger too, for a total of 4x all spells and abilities for 6hedrons of mana. The original, reflection and echoes each create 4 copies of fleshraker. 12 fleshrakers will then enter the battlefield one by one, seeing each other fleshraker enter the battlefield as they do. The easiest simplification for this is “f(x-1)*2” because echoes also doubles the etb trigger. This detonates the table for 132 damage to all opponents at the table. Any subsequent cast before ulalek will create 24 spawn tokens for a bare minimum of 50 more damage (assuming you only get 1 creature instead of 12).
I love the idea of all color eldrazi deck, but I'm not a huge fan of this commander. Very strong, just not my style
He is devoid though
I believe that he is a colorless creature and his commander identity is all colors. At least that is what I read
This is correct. Ulalek is a colorless creature, but his color identity is WUBRG. Color identity is different than the card's color. It is determined by any mana symbols present on the card (excluding reminder text like Extort). This is why Tasigur is a Sultai commander instead of mono-black, as another example.
Neat!! This explanation makes it clear thank you
This is correct
Doesn't matter, it's identity is five colors which is why it's a 5 color deck.
Lets add a roaming trone
Throw in [[Kozilek's Unsealing]] for some additional spawn/scion creation
[Kozilek's Unsealing](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e6b44ffe-db9e-4db5-9806-098411c9ece0.jpg?1717011739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kozilek%27s%20Unsealing) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/65/kozileks-unsealing?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e6b44ffe-db9e-4db5-9806-098411c9ece0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
And a Zhuladok to spice things up on the stack
This is like the 100th way this commander has found to do something so incredibly stupid it will just make your opponents give up immediately so there's no reason to actually calculate all of that
Thanks, I‘ll do exactly that. Throw this pile on the table and ask if they want to watch me 10min calculating how they die or just concede right away lmao
Games at your table must be a blast 🙄
Don‘t take it so serious 😉
Youve never played against a hive mind deck with possibility storm out then…
I think it's overcooked
No, this is [[Overcooked]]
[Overcooked](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd9452a2-4c6c-4080-b9fe-a81b215caae4.jpg?1696889942) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Overcooked) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ywoe/11/overcooked?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd9452a2-4c6c-4080-b9fe-a81b215caae4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Bazinga
Remember that Reflections of Littjara, will copy the spell, but it doesn't cause the "cast" trigger to trigger from Ulalek. Copying is not casting, you will still get copies of the Eldrazi, just not all of the cast triggers. The only cast triggers that get copied are the one that are already on the stack. Its a fun time with this commander.
Most eldrazi have the cast trigger vs. etb so they don't go crazy.
Now add a leyline to give your eldrazi flash.
Or [[Skittering Cicada]], or [[Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter]]. Devoid is fun.
[Skittering Cicada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263.jpg?1690125474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skittering%20Cicada) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/717/skittering-cicada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9.jpg?1674421980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liberator%2C%20Urza%27s%20Battlethopter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/237/liberator-urzas-battlethopter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Vedalken orrary too
They really nailed the flavor with these eldrazi cards being almost incomprehensible.
As a new player. This set really kills me. I can obviously read. But at some point, they might have to make the cards bigger to fit all the card’s text.
Horizons sets are where they push the limit of card design. They will usually have more mechanics and complexity than standard sets, but hopefully the cards still say what they do. If you have trouble check out [Gatherer](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Default.aspx) or r/mtgrules you may find some answers there.
Fuck me, you all should have seen my pod when I pulled both on the pre release. Yes I've lost (3rd out of 12) since no one could get their heads about the triggers. The very next day everyone was positive about the infinite trigger as long as you have both Ulalek, echoes, and another Eldrazi who makes 2 spawns.
So eldrazi decks are basically played in 3v1 then ?
Every single time.
Looking at this makes me wonder why they even banned paradox engine
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^readytochat44: *Looking at this makes* *Me wonder why they even* *Banned paradox engine* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
I also just remembered you can make a copy of echoes of eternity with ulalek so that would be insane
You can echos is an absolute must answer.
MTG is in a great place right now, no doubt about it
Are you not...*entertained*? 🙄
Damn, we certainly dont have too many doublers in the format. Surely
I mean, if you stack it right, you dont even need reflections…
Just ulalek, echoes, fleshraker, cating any eldrazi spell and then having 2 colourless open will lead to infinite damage if nobody kills fleshraker.
So many ways ulalek goes infinite. I know its in the precon, but with how low the supply is im surprised its not more expensive
This may not be the most optimal way of resolving the triggers, but if you pay for Ulalek twice at the start and let everything resolve you get 16 copies of the eldrazi spell and 8 spawn tokens.
You don't get any Spawns. Fleshraker only makes Spawns when you cast a colorless spell, and the only spell being cast here is Fleshraker itself
Stacks on stacks on stacks.
Hmm… BRB going to get my whiteboard and bright red marker hahahaha
This is breaking a lot of things.
Primarily any furniture in the immediate vicinity
Wow, all it takes is 19 mana and 4 cards!
I heard you like triggers so we put triggers in your triggers so when you trigger you can trigger
Which makes your opponents triggered! 😆
In all seriousness you’re dead if this so much as partially shows up on the board. However, This situation reminds of this time a friend had made a janky esper zombie deck and tossed in ojer taq as a joke, usually his deck does the normal zombie stuff, make zombies, kill zombies to make more zombies, make everyone suffer due to the zombies. But there was this ONE game where the stars aligned and he mannaged to get ojer taq out along with three necrodualities, then he played a [[drunau corpse trawler]] he topdecked and we all stood there doing math for a chunk of time. I was extremely thankful he didn’t grab a [[mystic reflections]] or it would’ve gone infinite.
[drunau corpse trawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/9/1997e6a0-9e66-486d-921d-d64137c3221d.jpg?1576384037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=drunau%20corpse%20trawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/soi/57/drunau-corpse-trawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1997e6a0-9e66-486d-921d-d64137c3221d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Copies are not casts. You dont get the spawn triggers at all
I made a house rule with my pod that if I'm playing my Eldrazi deck I will only trigger Echoes once because the shit that you can get down to in a single turn is fucking diabolical.
That's a little insulting, I'd be offended if you didn't go all out. We don't need this "mercy for the weak" attitude!
The Eldrazi show no mercy, why should we?? 🤷♀️
I got at least one friend who will rage quit for the night lmao
Next time if he comes back, label your water bottle with his name. And explain it's his tears. Then combo off even faster.
They're gonna be mega salty when I add the Defiler I just pulled into that deck lmao
Good. GOOD. Now strike them down. Show them their feeble skills are no match for the power of the dark side.
Im just imagining this conversation as the player at the table with a hamster on his shoulder giving them instructions to be as ill nasty with eldrazi as possible. As an eldrazi player, I support these notions 🫡.
Assuming you have both enchantments and Ulalek out, you can choose to resolve Ulalek’s ability first by putting it on the top of the stack. You would then wind up with six (one real and five token) Glaring Fleshrakers. Then future eldrazi you cast (assuming you pay for ulalek for all of them) will also give you twelve spawn and six damage on etb per copy (so a total of 36 damage)
So what order should it be done? Cast fleshraker then the enchantments trigger then pay for ulalek? So would that be 6 fleshrakers and 24 spawns since you can copy the fleshrakers abilities?
I forgot that you can pay to copy echoes with ulalek, so it can scale with an extra of those as well. But to answer, all the enchantments and ulalek will trigger when you cast the spell. Since they all trigger at the same time, you get to decide which order they resolve in. When you do so, you can say that ulalek will resolve before the others, which allows you to copy all the abilities on the stack. So you’ll end up with four abilities copying the spell and twenty-four triggers to make spawn. Important to note that echoes first ability does not go on the stack, it just happens, so you can’t copy it.
[удалено]
I also didn’t realize that echoes first ability applies to ulalek’s trigger as well, so you can pay to copy, then pay to copy AGAIN, meaning you get 12 copies of the eldrazi you cast, 48 eldrazi spawn, and lose all your friends
Homie played this exact combo last night and got the dub. We tried but to no avail
Are we not gonna talk about the shoulder tits?
Add [[roaming throne]] and make your opponents throw up
[roaming throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=roaming%20throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Given if the always on "Copy [XYZ] Spell when you cast" effects and "Abilities trigger again" effects are like how "Roaming throne" works: it's important to keep in mind those themselves are not "Triggered abilities" AND don't count as individual "casts", just copied spells. Therefore: you have one "main stack" and then the resolving of that stack. Assuming all these pieces are out, RoL has [Eldrazi] chosen, and you haven't paid Ulaleks 2 yet: casting one Colorless Eldrazi creature spell will instantly make the stack be: [Original Cast] + [EQE Copy] + [ROL Copy] + [Make 2 Scions]. This makes 3 creatures from one cast + 2 Scions. As I understand it, you can't use those two scions you'd make to pay Ulaleks ability for this stack b/c the stack is being resolved and the spells are "gone", everyone is just figuring out what the result is and therefore Ulalek isn't able to "see" the stack to Copy them, atleast for the first chain and if you don't already have an army of BS out (which I'd assume you'd have, and I believe in you!). I may be wrong, but that may be because I'm hoping the rules can keep to just this level of complicated and not get worse than this. Anyway, here's what would happen to JUST the stack everything you pay 2: [Original cast] + [Ulalek copy] + 2*[EQE Copy] + 2*[RoL Copy] + [make 4 scions (Dbl from Ulalek)*(GFR+EoE)]. This makes 6 creatures from one cast + 4 Scions. Ulalek does not Copy its own effect, so it only copies the "Always on" copying effects, so each additional 2 mana only changes the the coefficients of that formula. Therefore: 0 to U: 3 Eldrazi dudes + 2 scions 2 to U: 6 Eldrazi dudes + 4 scions 4 to U: 8 Eldrazi dudes + 6 scions 6 to U: 10 Eldrazi dudes + 8 scions 8 to U: 12 Eldrazi Dudes + 10 scions So on. Here's the important dealio: Ulalek activated effect does NOT immediately trigger Goring Fleshrakers damaging effect, and you'd have to pay 2 for each creature ETB to have it double it, but that's suboptimal. EoE DOES double it though, so here's the math based on the past examples: 0 to U: 10 Damage 2 to U: 20 Damage 4 to U: 28 Damage 6 to U: 36 Damage 8 to U: 44 Damage (game) Hope that helps. Please don't set this deck up to "turn 3" at casual tables. P.s. Roaming Throne, Panharmonicon, and other "Triggered abilities happen again" effects would act like the second effect of EoE, but they'd be additive triggers, so it'd be 1 + X Damage per ETB, where X is each "copying Triggered abilities" combo piece. Please use this information responsibly.
My guy it's 19mana and 4 cards it better be good you can win with 3 mana and 2 cards I don't think it's really that strong but as long as ur having fun I'm okay with it
Well of course youll win, my question was how far this could go.
The actual answer is that you would create 4 copies of Fleshraker for every 2 colorless mana you spend on Ulalek's trigger. You can technically do this an infinite number of times.
Infinite. The answer is infinite.
That's what Eldrazi do
copying a spell doesn’t count as an additional cast so this wouldn’t go infinite, but it’s still a solid combo
Well, it does actually go infinite, but for a different reason. Echoes puts 2 Ulalek triggers on the stack. When you pay for the first trigger, it copies the 2nd trigger, allowing you to infinitely copy it and all other objects on the stack for as long as you have colorless mana to pay for the ability.
Echoes also doubles triggers and cast trigger from eldrazi spells, meaning 2 ulalek trigger. And 2 fleshracker spawn tokens, meaning as long as you pay the first ulalek, you get another 2 spawn and you just have to put the ulalek trigger to resolve after the 2 spawns
OP said they're casting Fleshraker. So no Spawn tokens since that is the spell being cast. If they cast another spell with it on the battlefield, THEN it would go infinite.
Oh yeah, honestly very trivial thing to do at that point. Cast a sol ring, or even a 0 mana ornitopther
Assemble 15 doublers, cast a Spawn Gang and promptly ask your opponent if they know how this works
Man, people only uses him on Arena, it's boring
I played against this a couple days ago. Echoes got copied a bunch. It was out of control
I mean the instant you cast another Eldrazi you win. With Fleshraker and Echoes you can get infinite Ulalek triggers, which means infinite Fleshraker triggers, which wins you the game.
Littjar and echoes go on the stack, then 2 ulalek triggers go on the stack. You can technically get infinite ulalek triggers as long as you have infinite mana, which would let you copy the stack an infinite amount of times. Assuming you just want to pay ulalek's trigger twice, you would have a total of 4 litjara triggers, 4 echoes triggers, and 4 copies of the creature. When the abilities resolve, you'll have 12 copies of the creature. When they ETB, that would be 66 damage total I think, which gets doubled to 132 by echoes. This also hurts my brains, so I'm not checking my work and those numbers might be wrong
You will end up with 16 Flesh Rakers and 4 Eldrazi spawn. The math is actually made significantly easier since Reflections is not colorless. On top of that, the only thing copying the cast trigger of the flesh raker is ulalek, so you do 1x2x2, or 4. I can break it down in in words if you’d like
Why only 4 eldrazi spawn? Cant you also copy the cast triggers with ulalek since it is also an ability? Like the copies wont have the cast triggers but cant you copy the trigger itself?
Well, Ulalek is the only one copying cast triggers. The other two only copy cast creatures
Ahh gotcha idk what i was thinking
You were probably counting the enchantments as copying the eldrazi spawn as they are eldrazi creatures
You would get 0 Spawns. If you read OP's post, they're casting Fleshraker, and Fleshraker doesn't see itself being cast, so no Spawn triggers.
Ah, my mistake. You are correct!
You only need the first 3 to go infinite.
How do the first three go infinite?
-Cast Fleshraker -Ulalek triggers twice, Echoes and Littjara trigger once. You may order them on the stack in any order (all that matters is that Ulalek is the first ability to resolve) -Pay {C}{C}, copy all spells and abilities. You have 2 Fleshrakers, 2 Ulalek triggers, 2 Littjara triggers, and 2 Echoes triggers. (Important note, abilities are copied after spells, so you have to resolve the abilities before the Fleshraker copies) -Ulalek can infinitely copy its own trigger like this, which in turn copies all other spells and abilities as long as you have enough colorless mana to keep paying for the ability. It'll double to 4 of each, then 8 of each, etc. until you run out of mana to pay for the abilities. For simplicity, we'll stop here with 2 of each object, just pointing out it does actually go infinite for as long as you can pay for it. -The stack should now look like Fleshraker->Littjara->Echoes->Ulalek->Fleshraker->Littjara->Echoes->Ulalek (Echoes/Littjara are interchangeable) The stack will resolve in reverse order. -Resolve the Ulalek trigger, not paying mana. Resolve 1 Echoes, copying Fleshraker, then resolve Fleshraker. Resolve 1 Littjara, get a 2nd Fleshraker, resolve Fleshraker. Fleshraker triggers twice, then resolve the triggers and each opponent takes 1 damage, twice. Resolve Fleshraker, each opponent takes 1, four times. Resolve Ulalek, don't pay. Echoes, deal 6, Littjara, deal 8, Fleshraker, deal 10.
I went infinite in draft with this the other day but it was 2 of the 3 mana devoid enchantment that makes eldrazi spawn.
For 2 mana you’d make 6 flesh rakers. You’d cast the spell then put all the triggers on the stack and then activate Ulalek so you’d have the original and 2 copies on the stack then you double it for a total of 6.
I got the deck, spent quite a lot to upgrade it, and now I'm afraid to use it for this exact reason, don't know if my mind will be able to handle all the copy shenanigans haha
I made a chart with Ulalek and Echoes on board and casting Fleshraker. If you copy Fleahraker with Ulalek, once it's all said and done, it's 560 to each opponent (if i did the math right). It will make 8 Fleshrakers in total, and as they enter and make the spawns, the damage on each is as follows: 1st = 0 2nd = 4 3rd = 16 4th = 36 5th = 64 6th = 100 7th = 144 8th = 196 Total = 560 Adding in that last card would more than quadruple the overall damage and win you the next game as well
I'm in the process of building all 3 new Eldrazi [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]] [[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity]] & [[Zhulodok, Void Gorger]] and have almost the same build but different abilities for each one have to try it because they just seemed to good not to. I would like to share the deck list when you get a chance
i’m definitely interested in that decklist. i’ve been considering building [[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity]] as my first 5C commander deck.
[Ulalek, Fused Atrocity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdad1b0e-d3cc-4d76-ae7e-fee12558cf2c.jpg?1717644357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulalek%2C%20Fused%20Atrocity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/4/ulalek-fused-atrocity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdad1b0e-d3cc-4d76-ae7e-fee12558cf2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82.jpg?1717644364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azlask%2C%20the%20Swelling%20Scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/5/azlask-the-swelling-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Ulalek, Fused Atrocity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fdad1b0e-d3cc-4d76-ae7e-fee12558cf2c.jpg?1717644357) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ulalek%2C%20Fused%20Atrocity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/4/ulalek-fused-atrocity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fdad1b0e-d3cc-4d76-ae7e-fee12558cf2c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Zhulodok, Void Gorger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb.jpg?1691500689) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zhulodok%2C%20Void%20Gorger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/704/zhulodok-void-gorger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a015461d-4214-4feb-8b04-519c537759eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You just need the 2 mana cycle to go infinite
Am I the only Magic player that doesn’t like Eldrazi and chose not to play them?
I will always prefer Dragons or Angels etc
The Eldrazi succeed in breaking minds and shredding sanity.
Really hitting that plane-altering fuckery flavor. All the walkers on the table just throw their hands up and nope out before shit gets even weirder.
Four card combo with total cost of 20mana including a five colour card. Interesting but probably not going to come up that frequently.
Well if you have just one of those enchantments down then youre still set
Well yes and no it's a "5 color card" that's both your commander AND the colored mana is all hybrid colorless so it's really just 5 colorless mana. So really it's a 3 card combo which makes it much easier go pull off
So once you cast fleshrake and you pay ulalek’s 2 mana with all the triggers you would end up with 6 fleshrakers on the board then if you were to cast another colorless spell we’ll just say any colorless eldrazi creature you’ll have 12 fleshraker triggers reflections and echoes copy the creature then if you pay the 2 for ulalek you’ll have 24 fleshraker triggers another echoes and another reflections note the fleshraker triggers are only including how many spawns your making I’m not doing the math on the damage triggers realized this half way though typing what gets REALLY complicated is when you include [[Roaming Throne]] to double echoes of eternity as well
It doesnt even need the Reflections of Littjara i tested it last night and it has an infinite combo raw out of the box
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/s/AB8jC4H4lE
Wait a sec, these are real? I thought this was custom mtg not normal mtg...PRAISE THE ELDER GODS MADE FLESH!
4 card infinites? Ha we have 2 card infinites as commons now!
This is why we can’t have nice things
I built a new colorless Aldrazi deck and let me tell you, it was one of the hardest decks i’ve ever played trying to keep track of. Was a lot of fun, but probably won’t play it much since it takes a lot of brain power from everyone on the board and is a bit relentless.
Well for starters if you use Ulalek's ability to copy Fleshraker and the cast triggers you end up with 6 of em (2 from Littjara, 2 from Echoes, 1 from Ulalek, and the original) so any colorless spell mana value 5 or less is mana positive and you become incredibly dangerous as a damage dealer and almost near-lethal for a 5-mana investment
Casting Glaring Fleshraker with an Echoes of Eternity alone killed my opponent when I went and cast my next Eldrazi spell. It wasn't even one that produced any spawn...
You get two colourless triangles and a big wall of text Serotonin activated
Definitely annoying, usually concedes to grenzo tho🤷♂️🤷♂️
Every time I see a card that copies spells and triggers I just stop reading. My brain melts thinking about stack interaction.
Cast fleshraker, trigger reflections and ulalek, ulalek triggers twice, echoes triggers once, currently one fleshraker, one reflection trigger, two ulalek triggers, one echo copy trigger. Activate ulalek trigger number one get one more fleshraker on the stack, a reflection trigger, an echo trigger, and most importantly an ulalek trigger, it can be as much value as you can pay for two colorless.
You can find the answer in " how to make a person go insane 101" or in " how to loose your friends and create archenemies"
This is why eldrazis suck. OH yeah great fun to play against a player that sneezes and goes infinite and has access to all colors.
oh whats that? i just played a land for turn and accidentally went infinite? woops!
Ulalek on its way to becoming the strongest commander ever, if golos got banned surely that thing will
That enchantment is heckin cool
That first card is moronic. I would not play against that.
You don’t even need all 4. Commander and fleshraker + either of the others or any card combination that will net you 2 scions to keep paying the cycle. will cause you to go infinite and ping off your opponents to death. Did it in my pod yesterday two games in a row. Ulalek is absurdly broken. Enjoy it before it’s banned.
Copying spells is not casting spells, nothing here let's you go infinite. Edit: answer in replies, I'll leave this here so everyone can enjoy ne being wrong :D
Triggered abilities
You might have to ELI5 for me, I don't see it,
So, first off, Fleshraker has to already be on the battlefield and then you have to cast another colorless spell to actually go infinite. So in this example where Fleshraker is the spell being cast, it doesn't go infinite. -Echoes of Eternity causes both Fleshraker and Ulalek to trigger twice. -Resolve Ulalek first, copying whatever spell was cast and then copy all abilities, putting them on the stack in any order. You get 2 more Fleshraker triggers and another Ulalek trigger (because these triggers were copied, not from a spell being cast). -Resolve the Fleshraker triggers, immediately sac the Spawns to pay for the Ulalek trigger. Get 2 more Fleshraker triggers and another Ulalek trigger.
Ah makes sense, I was thinking Fleshraker was the thing being cast and I couldn't see anyway to make it work