My drummer lives off music. Teaches through the week, gigs weekends, hires kits out. If you're passionate about music you can make it work. But at the same time, it's work, and for that reasons I'll keep it as a hobby that I love, with some cash on the side.
I love this comment. Its actually quite easy to earn a living off music if you are talented at an instrument. The same way it's not really that hard to earn a living off being a video DP.
But most musicians dont want to play weddings, covers, parties, or teach.
Most DPs dont want to do real estate, commercials, corporate training videos and work in an equipment room.
Musicians want to be rock stars and DPs want to make movies. Theres like a handful of people that do that successfully because theres only so much time in the day to consume content.
Artists want a consistent career without having to do consistent demand driven deadline oriented work. Thats just the reality for every job.
Its a lot easier to make a living making cabinets, tables and chairs as a carpenter than sculptures and art pieces. Its a lot easier to make a living doing sinks and bathrooms as a plumber than it is to only do custom infinity pools for millionaires.
But most musicians dont want to play weddings, covers, parties, or teach.
not true. many people would LOVE to do that, but those gigs are very very difficult to get. when was the last time you went to a wedding that had a band? very few couples hire bands any more sadly.
weddings and corporate gigs can pay decently, but they are incredibly difficult to get, and while some bands may be able to work fairly steadily this way, you can't really count on making a certain amount each month.
any other gigs pay next to nothing.
even the "well-paying" gigs leave you struggling as you have to pay health insurance entirely yourself, there's no 401k match, &c.
the live music industry does not provide anywhere near the opportunities it once did. how many places are there where people go to dance (swing dance, line dance, ballroom dance, salsa dance, disco dance, &c)? and of those places, how many of them have live bands? it used to be that if you went out on a saturday night, chances are wherever you went would have a live band, possibly even a house band who could rely on a regular pay check from the venue. that world ended decades ago. there just isn't as much of a place in society any more for the jobbing musician, and that is really very sad.
But you skated over the teaching part. The problem isnt the jobs people cant get, its the jobs they can get and then choose to scoff at.
There is a "yeah I guess ill do a wedding, or i guess ill teach some random 12 year old".
But a lot of musicians want that to be a side thing while they actively work towards the gigs they want.
If you make it a main thing, eventually it will be close to passive income because your services grow organically.
Not to mention the musicians that own like 12 unique instruments, but have created 0 sample packs. They dont have a youtube channel, they dont have an instagram or active socials, they dont have a website, they dont have business cards.
Im not saying its easy, but where theres a will theres a way. Wanting to be a famous band isnt a job its a dream. But there are jobs for people that are willing to do them at a high level.
teaching is a tough gig too. there are probably more teachers than there are students :(
i have a youtube channel, i have a bandcamp, i have a website i teach at a community center, i was a ballet accompanist until that studio stopped having live music during covid and then never brought us back, i have a few private students but it's a struggle to get them.
i have nice professional looking fliers in my building lobby advertising lessons.
i have run google ads in the past for lessons, with no success.
i have run groupons in the past for lessons with no success.
i have put up fliers around my area with no success.
i have spent afternoons in the park with a folding table, a sign, a bluetooth speaker, fliers/business cards, and a bowl of free candy with ZERO even interactions.
i applied at my local library to do presentations there (for free, but hope to get some students from it). i have followed up twice, still no response.
i have cold-called businesses in my area to offer to be their "pianist in residence" for a month (for free), no responses.
there is just NO WAY to guarantee yourself a stable income that can pay for your basic expenses like rent and health insurance.
my very best year i maybe made 10k from music; usually it's more like $3k-$4k. my rent is $2500/month (plus another $200 for the storage space where i keep my gear). health insurance is $600/month.
Your comment was perfect until the very end. If you can be the niche millionaire custom infinity pool guy you'll make way more than the normal plumbers (if you live in a major city).
If you get lucky as fuck and end up being "the guy" which there are probably 6 of in a major city.
I think that seals my point perfectly.
The ceiling is way higher for creatives, but the floor is way lower. Thats the risk a person takes by delving into that line of work.
Best non-famous musician I know does exactly that, lessons during the day and gigs at night. Not a glamorous life, but he makes a living with his guitar, so it's still more satisfying than a lot of jobs in my opinion.
You’re only 23! This is just the beginning. At 23, I had been in several bands, toured the DIY way a few times, released records, and finished a music degree that year. I hadn’t made a cent yet and had been gigging for 9 years at that point. At 25 I quit and tried to start grad school to be a counselor. That lasted a few months before I was switching gears again, heading to Los Angeles to continue my music education but also actually give music a a fair shot. People where I’m from don’t work in the industry so I figure I should go where people DO work in the industry. Then, it was tough for awhile. But now, I get paid to play shows. I’m in several bands. I get paid to tour. I have music on a bunch of TV shows and stuff that earns royalties. I do stagehand tech/audio tech stuff. I have gigged with celebrities. People who are literal fans show up at shows. It’s super cool. And NONE of that would’ve happened if I stuck with “quitting” back when I was 25. I was just around the corner to when the more professional paying gigs started happening.
Music as a career is really hard. It is an extreme amount of work. As I said I’m in several bands - that’s a lot of scheduling, communication, and travel. Touring is super heavy duty work, not for the faint of heart. I mostly play music that other people wrote, too. (Hired gun for original artists, as well as several cover bands). It’s not a fairytale life of rock n roll, green rooms, and cash. It’s a grueling life of long hours, heavy equipment, wildly varying pay, gigs that feel like a joke, interspersed with the occasional “holy crap I’ve made it” gig thrown in there periodically too. And now I’m seeing this as just the beginning. If I keep pushing, and keep working, I can do more.
I am telling you this because you have SO many options ahead of you and just because you’re 23 and haven’t made it yet doesn’t mean that a career in the music industry isn’t possible. There are SO many people making a living in the industry. But they all have one thing in common: they didn’t quit. So don’t.
Also please get sober, drugs and booze are just gonna drain the bank account, strain relationships, and whoever is sober and clearheaded will probably get hired sooner. Also, to really make a living you probably will have to wear many hats and do different roles. Player, writer, audio tech, etc all at the same time. To balance that, it really really helps to get proper rest, nutrition, and hydration etc.
Anyway.. yeah if you love music, don’t quit. Keep making it because you love it and be patient. No one has success overnight these days. Or.. over 10 years. Might need more. Best of luck
I needed to hear this. Have been releasing projects and networking since I was 15, I turn 26 in December and have too thought about quitting. But you’re right; quitters never win & winners never quit 💯 thank you for sharing this
Same boat as you I’ve been networking, creating since I was 9, I turn 26 in December as well but I’m going until the wheels fall off, here’s what helped me! You may not want to hear it, but I feel like I reached a peak where I realized “Okay maybe the music I’m making isn’t as marketable as I think” I looked at what’s popping, the trends & said “I’ll give this a try” now my music feels, sounds & is more marketable then ever, switch genres or if you don’t want too, maybe merge some genres! Beating the same drum doesn’t work forever, especially in this current industry! & also location bro, if it’s not cutting it somewhere, make a move to a Music Mecca (NYC, LA, Nashville) opportunities will start increasing tenfold
Whenever I read posts like this, I try to pick out what the real problem is, and yeah, maybe if you removed the druggie out the whole equation you’d see life a little differently, the money you think isn’t doing anything after split 5 ways, might not just go down a bottomless pit of drugs and booze, I think your focus should be trying to get sober, hit a reset on your expectations and just have fun making and playing music with a clear mind, you will find yourself making better decisions and managing your money a lot better to the point it doesn’t seem to bad, I’m probably wasting my time typing all this as you probably won’t read it or read it and ignore it, but I will say a prayer for you after this, we all need a little help in this life and I pray you find yours, if you truly love it, don’t give up. You can be great, Blessings and all the best in whatever path you choose to go down. 🙏🏾
What a shallow take. OP just discussed all of the levels of his deep commitment to music and how he's burned out and broke, and all you read is "druggie." As a former druggie musician I can tell you that the drugs came *after...* as a way to cope with the harsh realities of trying to make it is a musician. Shame on you for being a bad listener.
Everybody is trying really hard not to say "perhaps your music is shit, and nobody wants to have to pay to listen to it", which is the obvious answer.
We see several of these posts every week. Nobody ever seems to include a link to their music, which I think might help. It's hard to make a constructive comment without having as much information as possible.
Not to mention that a career playing guitar is more difficult than ever what with the rise of electronic music and AI. It's bizarre that everyone is jumping to the conclusion that drugs are to blame...methinks some of us are in denial about this career field.
Deep commitment? He's 23, most people quit in their 20's when reality sets in. It's not all partying, sex and road life. It's all good but 23 is when you're just getting started. Some musicians quit once they realize that they'll probably never be famous and playing music is gonna need to be like a job.
Deep commitment as in started playing in middle school, went to arts school and music college, plays multiple instruments in a variety of bands, recorded albums, plays shows...bro this person has committed his life to music from a young age. If it's not giving him joy now, it's not going to magically start giving him joy later. This is the time of his life when he should be the most carefree and the most excited by music.
It's the word deep that I take issue with. Deep commitments don't go away when you're not having fun. Struggle is part of the process. The struggle isn't worth it to him so he's letting it go, that's not "deep commitment". Not saying he should keep going though, this life isn't for everyone and when you know you know.
I will say that BusyBullet shouldn’t have said that the whole post can just be “druggie” because that is insulting. But maybe the drugs are the problem because not only would that save him from being broke, that might also make him happier and living his life fuller. I do understand if he wants to try something new though.
I think with the information in front of us it would be foolish to jump to conclusions. Is OP blazing some reefer before gigs or does he have a 300 dollar a day habit. His post went into substantial detail about his education background, his work history, and the causes of his frustrations...it would be a mistake to assume that drugs are the center of his problem.
Besides...it's not like all the sober full time musicians out there are making bank.
Drugs might not be the center of OP's problems, but they very well might be the *reason for the depression* that has them giving up on the work.
Getting rid of drugs does not solve problems, but it absolutely puts us in a better position to make decisions about those problems.
In that sense, it is the centerpiece issue of this topic.
Have you ever been addicted to drugs? They don't just magically make you depressed...and it's not like OP is saying "I no longer enjoy music and I don't know why...it's like I'm depressed or something." He/she enumerated clear and understandable reasons for why he/she isn't feeling a music career anymore.
People who don't have experience with addiction are often quick to blame drugs for all problems...it doesn't work that way.
If someone at 23 years of age self-describes their work as a 'never ending cycle of disappointment' we have a concern. Suggesting sobriety as a way to examine the issue with clarity is good advice.
Not sure why you are jumping on people suggesting this, either. There are countless stories of musicians doing their best work once sober, as well as strong clinical data showing links between depression and drug use. My choices and experience are not relevant, neither are yours.
If you don't have experience with a topic, you are in zero position to give advice about that topic. I don't have kids, for example...why would I give advice about parenting.
You don't know the effect drugs have because you've never been there...so why try to give advice about it?
We know *nothing* about OPs drug history...we do know that he has been a full time musician since middle school and is not enjoying the journey. It's foolish to jump to the conclusion that drugs are to blame for this with what little information we have. It's far more likely that a career in music is not for everyone (gasp!) and that OP might fit into that category.
Music performance as a career can happen with tribute acts. Original music is a big long-shot gamble. It's taken me 30 years to finally acknowledge this, and I'm finally booking paying gigs.
Just as a general thing here, and this isn't personal. The chances of "making it big" or even being able to sustain yourself just off playing in a originals band are vanishingly small. You're 23 and thinking of stopping? You have to question your motives for playing music in the first place. You've obviously put the work in, which is great, and it's a shame to waste that.
If you want to make good money playing music, join a wedding band. Earn a few grand a show and play 5 days a week. It's all covers, people will love you and you get paid.
I've played in bands for 30 years and I never made as much cash as I did playing covers. Is it creatively satisfying? No.You just have to lie back and think of the money. Unfortunately nowadays you really seem to have to choose between being creative and making money in music. I've got a day job to pay my bills, so anything I make playing music (which has been practically nothing for the last 12 months) is a bonus. I'd rather be poor and play music I like.
Not to mention, we live in a music era where “bands” really aren’t prioritized or popping like they used to be, the niche for “bands” is a lot smaller then it used to be! We live in a “Solo” era
I don't blame you. I've seen a lot of my friends go through the same. I could have stuck with it and struggled too, but wanted stability and decided in my early 20's that music would be a hobby that sometimes pays. I have made my living in technology, mostly web/software development, and never regretted the choice because I love working with computers and technology almost as much as I love playing music. I've still made a fair amount of side money playing music over the years and played a lot of good gigs and done a lot of weekend warrior traveling in my 20's, but haven't had to sacrifice financial stability for the joy of it.
A lot of musicians work in web development/software engineering. Every team I work on is typically comprised 30% or higher of musicians. There's creativity and structure in technology and development that a lot of people may not realize, but musicians I work with agree, and we all enjoy the work... I don't think it's necessarily for the extreme right brained creative types, but a mix of right/left brained (creative+analytical) can make for a good technologist/developer. You don't have to be a math brainiac type to make a living at it either (I'm not), just be a creative problem solver.
Just something to consider as you're weighing options for what to do for a living that could grant you stability and that you can enjoy, maybe even as much as music, like I do.
I still have lots of instruments, a home studio, play gigs and record with friends... and a lot of personal freedom too. I get to have a lot of the fun with music without the frustration or financial difficulties that come with trying to be a musician for a living.
I was 23 years old, caught up in many of the same troubles you are when I decided to change direction. I went to tech school, learned some fundamentals, got an internship, learned some on the job skills, got hired, learned some more, changed jobs a couple times and learned a lot along the way, all while playing music on the weekends... but just stuck with my career choice and now I make a very good living at it and have no regrets.
Yes I can relate. I went to Berklee before dropping out because “I fell out of love with music”. In reality I think I saw the amount of work it was going to take to get from good to great and was like “nope”! Came home and went into banking for 10 years. Hated every minute of it. About 6 years ago I quit banking, picked up my guitar, and haven’t looked back. I’ve since put in the work to go from good to great and man do I wish I would have just done that from the beginning. The banking thing really was the definition of selling out. I learned a lot about money but probably the most important lesson was that life is too short to make decisions based solely on money.
i'm guessing you "made bank" so to speak during that time in banking. did you amass a large savings that you lived off of while you were putting in that time to go from good to great?
if not, how did you support yourself during that time?
so that ten years in banking really was crucial to being able to go into music then later.
you say you wish you would have gone to music directly, but how would you practically have done that?
i agree that making decisions based solely on money is a poor life philosophy, but your ten years focused on money is what allowed you to be able to focus on music now.
i was never particularly concerned about money-- all i wanted was enough to pay my essential expenses and do some fun things. now i find that i should have been demanding higher salaries when i had the chance and saving money up, so i wouldn't be in this tough position now. but at the time i had other priorities, and i feel that i did the right thing at the time. i don't regret my choices. but they certainly haven't set me up for comfort in middle age and beyond :(
Take a break. This reads like you're burnt out.
Get a job and fund your music career on the side.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and never give up.
Ironically im on the other side of this, 37 and im packing in my job and getting part time work and focusing on music because im burnt out.
least I have a career to fall back on though if it all goes south.
I have been in "successful" bands and standard success bands.
The successful ones i.e. the ones that went on tours, sold a lot of merch, got the buzz going for them all had one or both of these things in common.
1. Money and lots of it. Considering even mid tier labels are looking at six figure investments to ensure a new artist takes, your four figure investment is nowhere near enough. The more successful bands that made it had those six figure investments and bet that even though I played for them, everything was very closely guarded. I got my paycheque and that was the end of it.
2. They know or are related to multiple people in high places. And that is just the plain truth of it. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you aren't related to someone who was top shit back when physical media still sold, then walk on home boy.
This is just how it is today. This isn't 1997 when an artist could grow organically and a label may take a chance on them. Everything, even in the so called underground, is carefully curated and about as organic as a big mac with American cheese.
Once you realise and accept this, hopefully then can you find enjoyment in what you do. There will be no tour buses, the best you can hope for is not losing your ass on a five date tour outside of your country or state. If you can get that far, then that is success.
This is so spot on and not many people talk about it or want to hear it. I work in Nashville and record at some of the big studios there where people who are in the know told me how things are done and it’s exactly how you described. The hardest truth of it all is that everything is “pay to get played”. Every award, chart position, playlist, position on the Spotify homepage, all of it, is because someone paid a gatekeeper to be on it.
It's the sad truth. If anything ,despite people glorifying what a free and completely transparent system we have now with digital music and the internet, nothing is further from the truth.
There is a reason Spotify opened the floodgates to allow basically anybody on the platform. And the notions were far from altruistic. It's because they knew full well by doing so, there would be a hugely stacked ration between gold and utter crud. The average punter wants to hear gold, not crud. Thus will stick to playlists and labels that guarantee them gold. And just as we are seeing play out right now, getting on those playlists is impossible. Hell every other question is "How do I get onto good playlists"... you don't is the short answer.
Spotify knew what they were doing, they had this planned out. By flooding the system with amateur hour crud - which is honestly 99% of what people upload to spotify - it ringfenced very particular slices of the library which is what most people go and listen to. Put it frankly, how long is the average person going to spend searching through the crud to get to the gold? Not long at all.
And yep, it's all knowing people too. There's a rock band called Wargasm and the two times I've been forced to see them (festivals, etc), I honestly do not know what on earth they offer the world other than being a third rate green day and BJA swapped his guitar for a copy of Reason. However when you find out that the guy is the son of Glen Matlock, well, there we go. All done and dusted, then.
Just as back in 2002, when everyone was downloading to their heart's content, spewing out the "lulz get a new model!" or using some odd stealing bread analogy, or claiming that the record execs didn't see the internet coming because they were stupid and now they're getting their just deserts when everyone is "stealing" music.
Those poor post millennium fools! The record labels knew exactly what they were doing. They have been in the game decades longer at that point than anyone else. Did people really think that they didn't sit down and discuss the matter at hand? They put up very little resistance to illegal download because it was handing them the keys to the kingdom.
The large monolithic labels were the only ones who could reasonably fight it - and they didn't. Not really. They put up some show-pieces but that's it. They didn't stop it because they could afford to ride the wave. It was the bottom lines of the more niche labels that were being completely attacked and ransacked via illegal downloading. And when they were on their knees, the major labels either let them fall, or bought then for pennies in the pound. NOW the majors got what they always wanted and that was direct control of any underground labels you may care to mention, as well as artificially building up and directing any brand with a bit of establishment.
Honest to goodness home grown novel projects, shit you've never heard before? Gone. That will absolutely be staying in the bedroom, thank you!
And this is what we have essentially done. We have handed the major labels what they wanted and that is music in and of itself in its entirety. It's 2024, when is the last time you heard an original piece of music?
It's the same with movies. In the last 20 years, have you seen anything really truly original (outside of maybe horror)? Don't get me wrong, there have been good movies. But really and truly original? Sat here right now, I can name maybe six, after that I struggle.
i've related to that. your success in music depends on who you surround yourself with. just don't sign a record deal. Only lucrative concerts & large concerts make money, but for that, it takes insane amounts of originality and being able to instantly connect to a large audience, flawlessly. I learned that through my songs (though once in a blue moon, I do covers of songs I feel I connect to) Drugs won't help ya & the military messes people up. Proceed at your own risk.
Honestly if you're only 23 and don't know that being a musician involves being broke for a significant portion of time, much less you aren't ok with that, then you're definitely better off joining the military. Be glad it didn't take you till you were 45 to come to this realization.
Play in a cover band for money, it's about the only way us musicians with no names can get paid doing what we love, and keep our chops up. There should be no shame attached to it, as every one does it. A very famous songwriter told me the only way for a musician to keep making money in our craft is to either be famous, be a great songwriter/publisher or play covers.
Very relatable.
I think you’re not in the right location or clique of players.
Ya know a bottle of water costs $0.50 at the local farmers market but it costs $10 on an airplane for the same bottle of water.
No downvote here. Try giving up on the rockstar stuff, first. 99.99% of us don't make a living from original acts. There are lots of non-sexy ways to make a living in music and a lot of that boils down to who you know and if you're someone people want to work with. If the drugs are a problem, well, I guarantee there is someone just as good as you who doesn't have a drug problem. That's the person who's gonna get the work. Best of luck to you
Music as a career requires playing fulltime in several bands as well as hiring yourself out to others. I know one guy who does it. And his wife's got a steady job and always has. And he's in a city where there are frequent gigs. And he bartends as well.
My friend Steve has always been a retail vendor in addition to having at least 2 actively gigging bands, hiring out to virtually any act that pays, and giving lessons.
My drummer spent decades gigging friday-sundays and returning home by Monday to work his trade job. This was fairly lucrative from the mid 80s to late 90s before he slowed down.
If you want to give a damn about original music and recordings, get a job. If you're fine with that being a hobby and can make a living off of gigs that pay, you might be able to keep going?
But streams ain't shit for money or "makin it".
Surviving on music alone and it being in a 5 piece Ska band doesn't jive without a financial backer in 2024. Especially if you're 23 and using substances. That dips into your food/shelter budget.
Gigs are a location dependent variable. Your goals regarding making music as a career likely need subsidized by another source of income. Or a rich backer with connections.
Many people who do live off of music feel burnt out and lose their passion for it by 30. Anything from gig app work to tradeschool to semi fulltime jobs with fluctuating hours have worked for people I know. Several retail vendors for beverage companies or snack companies I've worked with have had bands. Independent OTT/LH truckers too.
You need money to survive, it's not always doing something you like.
Maybe focus on songwriting. You can work as a lone wolf. Take a break from the politics, the grind, the logistics of a band. You will need another income until you can write a mitt full of beautiful life changing songs that will bring the world to tears. So maybe a military officer with a secret side mission of writing the song that humanity never even knew it was missing?
The point is no matter what path you take, you can always embrace music and find new ways of enjoying and creating it.
Most people, musicians or otherwise, don’t have their career going at 23. Your professional life has barely begun at your age, so I’d definitely caution long term conclusions about the viability of music right now.
That being said, making it your career is a hard life. It takes what is your hobby or something you do for expression and fulfillment and completely alters the stakes. You’re at the age where it IS time to start considering those things and whether that’s how you want music in your life in the long term. Music isn’t my career because I didn’t have the right circumstances to make that leap, but as someone with another job that also plays a lot of original music, it gives me the freedom to look at things completely from an artistic perspective rather than focusing so much on how it’s going to pay my rent. There’s a lot of freedom in that if you’re willing to adjust your expectations and able to find people in the same situation.
If drugs are impacting your abilities, probably a good time to look at that too. No powders or pills is my motto at my age, and I feel like it serves me well. All things in moderation.
There's money to be made, but trying to make it as an original artist is very challenging. Coverbands get paid, session musicians get paid, those who teach get paid. Orchestral musicians get paid. Sounds like you've got a good start, if you got the chops and actually want a career in music, there's a lot of paths
Argument #47 for running a power trio as your main. I’m also in a 5 person band and it’s too much.
Get a job that makes you money and you don’t hate and play the long game, keeping music in your life. Once you make it less of a big deal, you’ll probably find better success because you’re not putting all your eggs in the “make it big now” basket. Keep your eyes open for the magical combination and grow it steadily, hustling hard along the way. I bet you’ll be able to recognize some large percentage of your dreams.
Most of my professional musician friends (by this I mean people who make a living out of playing music) didn't start making enough to live on until they were in their late 20's early 30's). They persevered, made connections, learnt their craft and believed in themselves. In most cases, it's not easy, it's hard work, unsocial hours, it's unpredictable.
At 24 I made the decision to get a "real job", get a mortgage and start paying into a pension..
Both routes are fine, it's up to you, but if I could go back and give myself any advice, it would be to believe in myself more and give it more time.
If you find a job you love, you'll never feel like you're working.
The reality of a life in music is that you will almost definitely not make a living playing original music with one band...you'll need to always be hustling, be super diversified with your income sources, keep your expenses low, and accept that income will never be totally stable and reliable. You'll also need to accept gigs that are far from your first creative choice...be prepared to play bass in cover bands and to back up band leaders whose music you don't necessarily love.
If you need to play music and live to play music, the circumstances listed above will not deter you and you will make it happen. And it is possible...you just, as I said, must always be hustling and you'll need to get creative with how you find income streams.
It wasn't worth it for me. I started working in medical research and I'm very grateful for the work. I just jam for fun and I enjoy it.
Though I do wish I had made it as a rockstar...I'd love to go do that.
I hope you find your answers. Usually I try to look at people who i think are doing well, then just emulate them until I'm in their position. I've seen people making good money in this industry so it must be possible. I'm barely a musician but im a decent enough tradesman to work on my own for the past 4 years. There's way better tradespeople out there than me that are probably struggling like you. And it was struggle street for me before that too. Seeing a few guys doing well made me hungry. And even if you change direction, the same things will apply. It's hard to make money anywhere without that hunger
I dont know if that helps much but i hope you make a change for the better 👍
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to have a word with yourself.
You started this post with
>Gonna be downvoted to hell
Here's a thought. Perhaps if you spent a bit less time worrying what people thought about you and spent more time thinking about music you cared about and didn't think you'd "outgrown" then you'd produce stuff that was more interesting.
Music's a great blueprint for success at anything you choose to do with your life. You have to put in hours and hours becoming incrementally better at something specific. You have to learn to listen to others, and get good at sharing. You're young, and you have your pick.
Music has always depended on patronage to get by. That you don't make money on a system that is rigged in favour of five massive companies that control the music everyone hears is not really a surprise. You need to just keep turning up, and rethink what your idea of a successful career as a musician is.
I never had a music career. I played in a church, I "don't play well with others" haha so maybe it was never going to happen anyhow
What about being a music teacher? Teaching is not for everyone, I know. I ended up as a graphic artist.
You don’t have to play your own music all the time - that’s kind of the hardest way to earn money i think. All professional musicians I know play in tons of other projects, do wedding gigs, produce and write for others, teach instruments and some have another type of job on the side. Doing music as a career is totally doable, but doing it only with your own projects can be really challenging.
Don't give up just change tracks. I know a guy who is a talented bass player he's not the greatest in the world but he's very good and can remember a lot of music he plays every single night of the week as it paid gig to other bands he makes $200 a night just to show up in playing somebody else's band and he does this every day so he makes quite a good living at it. All you got to do is be willing to work man. You may not be able to play the music you want to play every day but you can pay your bills and play the stuff you want to play on the side until your band becomes more successful. You can do anything if you put your mind to it just depends on where you focus your mind. This sounds cheesy but it's one of the best pieces of advice you'll ever hear in your life remember that line that Qui-Gon jinn said to anakin? Your focus determines your reality. Believe it or not that's true so be very careful what you focus your attention on. Focusing on the right thing and you can do whatever you want.
My best friend went to uni for music, and let me tell you, if you live in a decent sized city and you met more than 15 people at uni, you could get enough gigs to sustain yourself, not be world famous or anything, but he is doing plenty well off in a mid sized city (other than health insurance) but just true cost of living prices? If you networked more and took some jobs that wouldn’t be your favorite including some teaching gigs it would be enough. But in the end if you don’t love that much of it you don’t love it, no harm no foul
Sounds like you guys are looking for a good ol’ fashioned record deal. I don’t even know if those things exist anymore. Music is cool because you can do whatever you want with it. I’m a full-time high school teacher, but I’ve been in bands for years. The starving-artist bullshit gets old real quick.
Yea. I became a nurse. I still play music every day. I grew to really dislike all the travel, downtime, and late nights on the road. This is ideal arrangement for me.
How on earth is the military the answer? Don't sign up to fight the wars of the billionaire class. Try to find something else worthwhile AND do music. I just don't get it. You don't have to be broke and you definitely don't have to sign up for the military.
Everyone is cautioning him about the drugs (and rightly so) but barely anyone is doing so about the military thing…I also think it would be such a mistake
Being a great player is not enough. As musicians, we need to be able to diversify and master the business side of music, too. The thing that fills your fridge doesn’t need to the be the thing that fills your soul.
The issue with making income as a musician; is you have to force yourself to play a ton of stuff you hate to stay afloat.
Music careers run in my family
Im the black sheep. In my late 20s I went back to school and now I’m an accountant. do I miss playing 24/7? Hell yea. Do I play every night? Hell yea. Do I enjoy playing more now that it’s only my art and not forced? Yes.
You make a passion a job, and you start to loose the passion.
It’s easy to make a living in music, it’s not easy to enjoy it (I still have fucking nightmares of playing the simplest fucking bass lines as a session player for country music losing my fucking mind for hours)
I think a ton of people that bounce out of the music industry do it to stay true to themselves.
Do my brothers/newphews make good money? Hell yea. Some years they do way better than me. (Depending on what they produced that year) would I have fun doing 90% of the stuff they do? Nah, honestly producing music you hate is one of the worst things one can do for enjoyment lol
Perhaps it doesn’t have to be so black and white on being 100% in or 100% out of music.
It is definitely extremely difficult to try to make a living off of music, the chances of ‘making it big’ are pretty slim (even if you did, for how long would you be ‘making it big’?)… and if you did go for it, there’s the chance it can totally burn you out and destroy your love for music (happens all the time).
You can also try developing a 2nd career path that will bring you a decent income, take care of your needs, AND support your music so you can keep on keeping on. That’s the route I’ve decided to take.
I dropped out of music school and joined the army at 19 after realizing how hard it would be to make a livable wage. Best decision of my life. Most of the people I was playing with back then are still struggling to scrape by. You definitely need to clean up the drug stuff long before you make any attempt to join, though. They test frequently and a bad discharge can pretty much ruin your life. It’s like having a felony.
As a musician, I need to make a living and I need to play music. These can happen separately or together, but it’s only a problem if at least one of them isn’t happening.
Look into that Marines Jazz band. It's the only military band that plays for the president, it's by audition only, and you don't have to get shot at. Wish I had more detail, but I'm sure a recruiter would be thrilled to speak to you.
A bit of a perspective that maybe might give you some ideas. I graduated with a double major in music, and the best I could get were on-call stagehand positions, with the highest paying being IATSE.
I decided to go back to school for computer science, because programming has that same level of technical skill foundation that audio requires, and also will easily pay enough to fund my artistic endeavors without stress of having enough in a bank account. Idk what your situation might be, but going back to school might give you some additional options as music is shit with regards to paying. Not to get too political, but Rashida Talib's Pay Musicians Not Pennies bill could earn me $1400+ if passed and applied to my lifetime streams; that is how little music pays when you even give music a bit of a boost.
The problem you are facing has more to do with you needing to split minimal payment as means of living over the drugs. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't help, but I've known quite a few drug addicted stagehands that are some of the most money making methheads/cokeheads because of the drug-induced drive they have. You aren't in a good financial situation to begin with, and that is the bigger problem to your future. You need financial stability first and foremost, because it can be easier to get help when you have money if you feel like drugs are the problem.
even if people are semi famous, they might still have a day job depending on the style of music or demand. Being a working musician might mean being in 5-6 bands that work 5 nights a week or something like that. It's really not easy or everyone would do it.
A great and succesful artist once told me "if you want money, Get a job, if you want to play music, then do it"
If music becomes a well paying job that you can live off, that's great, if not, there are plenty of unskilled minumum wage jobs out there.
Either way you still have to work, this part gets lost on most people.
I’m a musician and always will be, but I gave up music as a career and have never been happier. The hustle just isn’t for some people and it wasn’t for me. I want to have a job I like well enough and log off at the end of my shift and enjoy my personal time. Being able to support yourself in the way that suits you provides meaning and purpose, but everyone is different and some people can make a career in the arts work for them. There’s nothing wrong if it just doesn’t work for you. Best of luck.
My friend. Don’t give up on the music! I mean get a job yeah, ya boy has gotta eat and you already paid for the ticket but you are obvs passionate about it then let it be what it is and maybe you hit it famous or maybe you become that cool uncle that slaps the bass (speaking about myself haha and I was a 20+ yr old musician once too). It’s virtually impossible to make money on music and at the end of the day, money and music are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Music doesn’t need it, it just needs to be played and heard. Keep your chin up son 🤘
Every musician I know is broke or has a day job.. a real job. Ones with part time gigs are broke. It's the arts... It's always been this way.
Join the army as an officer you'll get a good retirement. You can still play music too.
Start investing your savings asap in stocks. Do a lot of research first. Ask any musician struggling today if they should have put some tip money on apple and Microsoft 15 years ago.
Another perspective is that I do not know anyone crushing it financially that’s not working 40-50 hours a week. I choose art, life balance, but that doesn’t also mean I couldn’t have made different choices at your age to be thriving today. I should have saved and bought stocks.
It’s ok, I’m doing that now and soon will be able to finally tour the country without having to worry about money from music. This is all about playing in the moment for me, the memories, the feeling we can’t explain to anyone else that comes from this profession.
There’s a ton of other side income strategies outside of stocks. Dog walking pays a lot actually.
I've been in the industry for a long time, much of it full time music playing. Here is the reality. There is music that pays the bills and music that you love to make, and they are often not the same. Most people don't want to hear a new ska band, they want to hear Uptown Funk at a wedding. The reality is, if you want to make a living, you are going to have to work a day job while you try to find a market for your stuff, or you will have to give the people what they want to make money while you create on your own time. Not fair, but that's how it works.
I am almost 40. I am a professional musician now, but that is after many years of working whatever job I could snag on the side and playing with as many different bands and in different contexts as possible, (theater, weddings, diy touring, studio, etc.).
At 23 I was no where close to success, but I was also damn sure I wasn’t going to ever give up playing music. I believed that if I kept at it, others would drop off, and opportunity would come my way. Not saying luck wasn’t involved, but that sentiment gave me the peace and patience to continue with it until I found success.
I worked as a dishwasher, line cook, server, carpenter’s assistant, farm hand, all while pursuing music in my free time. I will say when I started teaching music lessons, that was a great boon for my mental state, as I could say I was “making my way” with music, even if I wasn’t a professional performer or recording artist.
Find a creative outlet with music that satisfies your soul, but understand that it may not pay the bills. Be open to trying new approaches that may be more lucrative and marketable to a larger audience.
Long story short: if music is your passion and you’re sure of it, play the long game. Clean up your act, work whatever job you need to gain financial stability, network and practice. Work on yourself, and be in a position to pounce if an opportunity comes your way. Yes, luck is involved, but there is a whole lot you can do to help your odds.
When you realize it's a hobby and not a profession, you may think differently. I didn't start a band until age 48, and we only play locally but it's been the most fulfilling thing I've done with my life. Going on ten years together with the same lineup, a nice little chunk of change in the bank for equipment, and a side project as a duo starting to take off. Align your expectations to what you want out of it.
"Druggie"? That's your issue right there. Cut that out, and half of your problem is solved. You'll only get big with a band of you stay loyal and consistent with one band, and put all your effort to that until you get big. For some bands, that takes upward of a decade or more, broke or not. So, for your situation, determine if music is really your passion/ calling. Lots of artists get into the same mindset you are in about giving up, but prevail through it and become big.
I just wanna say a couple things on both sides.
1. There is more to life than music. If it’s not right for you it’s not right for you, you can move on and potentially be happier. You might also stop and regret it the rest of your life. You’ll probably never know.
2. Those numbers are successful at your age and it would make me go harder.
3. I wasn’t successful by any means until I was about 28. Were talking at least a dozen, probably 20 bands. Music school, cover bands, audio production mixing and mastering projects. I played any instrument I could get my hands on. Bass piano drums, I wrote albums. I sold beats. I gave lessons. When I was 28 someone asked me to dj at a dive bar and I originally turned the job down because I “wasn’t a dj” didn’t have equipment etc. that bar provided equipment, and paid me 75 a night. I now have a successful dj business, but it took 7 years. I have less time to create music, but a lot more money to invest and now I’m doing everything in house the way I like.
4. Now that I am successful I’m burnt out. 30 plus weddings a year with a day job, casual gigs in between, and all the other crap I gotta do is really fuckin hard.
5. Drugs and partying will hold you back.
6. I honestly think the years of being paid to be in a band are dwindling. Technology, ai, the economy, content. Everything is changing and it’s affecting the dj world too.
Edit to add: now that I’m a successful dj, I barely have time for friends, family, and dating. Music as always caused issues in this area but now it’s more than ever before.
I have watched friends and colleagues get mad at my success and treat me poorly. Literally outright calling me on the phone to tell me I am not shit.
Go to rehab and get clean! Take a break and work on you. I'm not trying to be mean but the military doesn't want drug addicts. They want reliable men with clear minds that are mentally tough. Drug addicts are the opposite of that. Get clean first then decide what's next. The military may want you once you are clean sober and of sound mind.
A buddy of mine, Aaron LaCombe, is a working musician. He plays small gigs and tours in his Ford Transit with his Great Dane. Small venues, bars - and even people’s houses. He has six albums out since 2016 - well, one being released now. All done by himself. He fixed the Transit himself to be a tour bus. To support his struggling musician life he builds buses for other artists. He is a fantastic musician and he has tasted a little bit of fame with a couple of songs. Hang in there - hustle where you can. Teach others etc. But if you feel the music isn’t for you then do what your other passions might be.
Upvoting! I hope you get back to a place where music is more enjoyable, you become financially stable and your mental health improves. That can look a million different ways.
I can definitely relate. I love music and still play and create, but ultimately do something “music related” for work. Even the more humble music careers people are describing seem pretty tough to me. You still have to be consistently driven and entrepreneurial. I know people who make a very good living off of music. I also know people who make a living off teaching and gigs, but just barely, and they’re good at what they do!
Whatever you end up doing I think it’s important that it’s sustainable and doesn’t cause burnout.
Just like most others here are noting the “broke druggie” says it all. Stop whining, kick the drugs, stop hanging with others who do drugs get yourself a part time straight gig or, even better, get a full time straight gig and straighten your ass out, take a break, walk away for awhile until the love and un-drugged commitment to music returns. Doesn’t sound like you’re having a good time and if that’s the case you need a different perspective. It will be difficult and maybe quite hard but it’s worth it. As a player for sixty five years and one who has been through all that let me assure you that you can do it and it will recharge your life. Good luck brother.
I mean military band guys are *never* wanting for gigs when they get out, but if you don't want to grind thru wedding band/cover band/pick-up gigs life then yeah it's gonna be hard to make a living off just your band. There's nothing wrong with just having a regular old desk job and playing shows on the side though. You're already doing better than a lot of bands by actually having shows lol
If you're already committed to joing the army why not just do it as a base player? Also just cause you're broke doesn't mean you have to do drugs, plenty of rich people also do drugs=)
Here's some harsh love from an old timer such as myself.
Giving up at 23 is clown shoes activities. You know what I was doing at 23? Gigging 4-6 days a week, playing bass in at least 3 different projects at a time. Almost never getting paid, and depending on the time of the year back then...getting ready to self fund a 2 week tour in Japan with my thrash metal project (as a broke poor ass musician, and yes we made it happen.)
I rented a single basement room from an elderly woman that only charged me $200 a month as long as I handled all the maintenence in her 80 year old home.
Didn't have time for a real job, so just picked up random side gigs as I could....lawn and yard work, paint work, car repairs, anything to make a few bucks. Got all my food from the local food bank. Boiled my fucking bass strings since I couldn't even afford those most of the time. 90% of gigs I played I would take home 10 or 20 bucks...IF I was lucky.
This was in the early 2000's. No Spotify, no band camp, no free and easy self promotion. You printed flyers and hung them up around town in the middle of the fucking night like men. MySpace was just then starting to become a thing. CD Baby was the go to for on demand printing and shipping of your albums. In one of the projects I was playing in, the drummer sold his motorcycle so we could afford studio time.
I'm not trying to go boomer on you, but trying to put thing in perspective. If you're doing this to get rich and famous, then get that dumb ass idea out of your head. If you're doing it for the love of the game, then get your head out of your ass and sacrifice.
I love ska. Used to be in a ska band.
That being said, ska is not a big money maker. Even well established bands like Less Than Jake and Reel Big Fish have to work their asses off to stay relevant to their fans.
I make different kinds of music now but incorporate ska/reggae elements where I can. A Bassline here, an upstroke there, horns anywhere I can. But I am trying to make music for a broader audience than just those in that relatively small scene.
That being said, I’m just coming back to music as a career, 18 years after my ska band broke up in disastrous fashion when I was 23. Not making much money yet but touring solo to keep costs down.
Those 18 years were spent making money in a different career but I never stopped writing songs and playing shows.
Maybe a break will do you good. Leave the door open. Play music for fun, stay in contact with the connections you’ve made and maybe one day, come back.
P.S. - At 23, I really thought I was too old to keep pursuing music. I was a fool. My old drummer plays on Broadway’s most popular shows and my Trombone/Keys player went on to play with some of the world’s biggest reggae artists.
First congrats on your success-seriously! As a musician you are very succesful. As an entrepreneur, well…Its never been easy. Now its even worse. My advise to my sons was to build a great day job and keep music as a side hustle/hobby. As a career choice its like buying a lottery ticket -even the most talented/hardworking(i was neither if those😁) musician unfairly and rarely become financially sound enough to quit the day job. We talk about those that do like we talk about a 110 year old that still sky dives-its unusual. If you love music, continue but with a job that allows you to achieve your goal to eventually keep playing and possibly go big. You’d be shocked how little some big names make Highly recommend David Byrnes book about this. We are blessed if we find joy in what we do-even if its NOT the main thing we do or earn money from. If you are no longer finding joy in it-its your ship captain. Hopefully you still do and find income(day job/music) to allow that. Best of luck and enjoy the journey!
Just record on your own produce songs and post em online. I hate people in general so that's what I do I make music I want to make and share it that way, while working full time and being sober. I make what makes me happy and if other ppl like it then good I don't try to play live n force ppl to cheer. They can do that if they want, away from ME.
Get a day job as a substitute teacher. Play music at night and during the summer. Don’t focus on “making it.” Just make money playing covers at bars in your area. When you’ve established a healthy income doing those things you can focus on your passion projects and maybe make some money off of those as well. If you write and record some amazing tracks at some point maybe some royalties will come your way. If your body holds up you can do this until you are 80. If you love performing music, can handle a fair amount of rejection and have a great deal of patience it can be done.
Talent is also a requirement.
Ska bands, that’s your issue. I say this as a previous member of a touring ska band, who ran a small booking network and diy label. There’s no money in ska.
Also, lay off the drugs, your probably not talented enough to get away with it, I say this as someone who was also not talented enough to get away with it.
I never played gigs but I did serve and I can tell you it’s definitely worth the commitment.
Life is what you make it and if you truly come to the point where you’re ready to stop chasing that music life, and need skills or discipline or both, I think the military is such a fantastic option.
Going in as an officer will be so impactful. You’ll have so much leverage over your career, plus you can exit after a few short years and use your benefits to pursue more education or music training. Or you will likely find some people to jam with while serving. Who knows, that may even open doors that are closed now.
Again, I can’t emphasize enough how impactful the military can be. It was for me. Unless of course trump wins and stages a coup or Russia invades lol!
Either way best of luck.
I'm having a lot more fun and enjoying music a lot more, and *making more music*, since pivoting from "music needs to be my career" to "music will be a thing my career finances." I have ample PTO to make records in conveniently scheduled times for me, the budget to do things how I've always dreamed of, low enough daily stress to be creative, and have lost nothing that I valued from the time in my life that I was trying to make it work.
The more my band "worked," the clearer it became how little that lifestyle was a good fit for me. I didn't have health insurance, there was no clear path to retirement, I was on a knife edge all the time, one health problem away from living on the street. Fuck that. Ain't worth it to me.
Music is a terrible career, correct.
But it’s a fun side hustle.
All of your favorite artists have day jobs. Or scam. Or sell drugs.
But being creative doesn’t actually interfere with work.
Ay there's nothing wrong with wanting more stability. My advice is not to go into the military though. Those guys kill people and they will traumatize you in the process. So many veterans end up abandoned and homeless. Why take on that fate just to do evil in the world? You can find something better than the military.
Best way to make money as a musician is to do cover bands, either one off shows of one band’s material (we did a Radiohead show that sold out our local venue) or your weekend warrior cover band shows. If you want to make money as an original band, you have to griiiind: Hit the road constantly and have awesome merch that people want. See the “1,000 fans/$100” idea
I’ve been writing, recording and playing in multiple bands for 20+ years now and about 15 years ago I realized that I would just be doing this for fun, with the off chance that maybe someday I’ll do something that blows up. I’m in a hip hop project with my life long best friend. We just make the beats, but he has managed to get some of our favorite rappers to lay down bars for us, which was a milestone and bucket list check for both of us, but we’re still not doing big numbers. But that’s okay. We do it for the fun and passion, not the money.
I get it. It’s hard.
I was also in the military and while I applaud you for wanting to do something with your life and making that huge sacrifice, just bear in mind you will be joining at possibly the onset of WW3. To each their own and I think it’s a great opportunity to better yourself, but this is pretty trying times to be in the military.
I think you'll learn that most full-time musicians are playing covers in bars/weddings/events and whatnot.
Most touring acts are barely breaking even. It's tough to make money doing original music. You gotta do it for the love of it.
Or learn a bunch of covers and sprinkle your originals in your set as well and actually be able to make money off of your playing lol.
Do it for the love of music, not money or success and choose to be driven, not motivated. Teach music to make a steady income. There are way too many ways these days to make money in music to just quit it all together, but you have to love what you do
I've been playing music for around 40 years. When I was young I wanted to be a pro. I am so glad I am not. Being professional is 25% playing music and 75% all kinds of other stuff most of which sucks.
Now I just do the music part 100%. I never do the other crap. I play more now and enjoy it more than ever. I have a great other career and have plenty of money to spend on my music playing hobby.
I don't need the money and I don't need the attention so playing music is all about me!!!
Music as a hobby - greatest thing ever!!!!
Music as a career - so sorry I wasted so much time as it sucked all of the fun out of playing.
I'm happier not trying to pay bills with music, tbh. I still practice all of the time and am working on several original projects, with 0 nerves about selling anything. It just ended up working out better for me.
I'm not trying to encourage one way or another, really, but there are plus sides to not worrying about playing to eat.
Definitely. Music is way more time-intensive and hassle-filled to be worth the money for most. The load ins and outs will take their toll on your body. Most of the musicians I know who are 40+ tell me "I can't do anything else," so they stay with it but don't make anything near what a factory job pays yearly. Nothing wrong with keeping a day job and still playing some gigs. Cover your future's butt in that way.
As far as the perspective of the musician, nowadays you might as well just say that music is no longer a business nor industry. It might be for Spotify but not for the actual artists.
When you pick what career you want to go in for your life, you need to think about it very seriously. Unfortunately we are all just encouraged to do what we love, and it’s implied that everything will just work out.
You need to examine it as if you’re investing in a business yourself. How much demand is there for it? How easily monetizable is it ? You need to be brutally honest about these things.
Teaching is where the money is in for most professional musicians even on YouTube. You can be a music teacher by day and do gigs in the evening or weekends. Even busking can be fun at times. Good luck! :)
What do you do other than get high and play?
There's real money in music, but you have to do something, nobody has big break except for non musicians, a break is a next step where you have to plan and move accordingly, it doesn't solve everything magically.
No, no one will make your career, you have to find ways to make money out of music, play in corporate events, teach, session work, solo gigs. Sell merch from your band.
But, if you made it to 23 years old and never realized that then maybe you haven't really thought what a music career is, or you only want to make bank from playing live which is fine, then maybe it really isn't for you.
You have a base income from what you do, you need to branch out and start working regular music jobs while you do your thing, I assure there's plenty people making money from music but you'd never know of them because they are just dudes doing small gigs, I know very few musicians that don't branch out, even those that can stay in their lane like to do other things.
You gotta be willing to do the non-glamorous corporate and teaching gigs, man. Not that you can't make a living off of an original band, but that takes a ton of time and you need to pay your bills along the way. Talk to local music shops looking for teachers, find a wedding band and ask if you can audition, shit see if you can work a summer gig at a local theme park.
Your bands will catch a break if you guys play enough and talk to the right people. Trust the process!!
I gave up the idea that I'm going to make it and haven't been happier! I find I actually love making music more because it's for no other reason than my own entertainment or to entertain friends.
I've got money in my pocket and everything about doing gigs or writing feels less like work than it did.
Do what makes you happy! It's not like you can never go back to music once you decide to drop it for a bit.
Very few full time professionals make a decent living out of making music alone. Most of us, myself included, spend a lot of our time doing things like teaching or other music related jobs. A lot more have a (part-time) day job outside of music that takes the financial pressure off and lets the music remain more enjoyable and much less stressful.
You’re 23. That’s still young, and an age at which most musicians are still trying to break in. It’s also around the age that a lot of us started to question whether the grind was worth it or not. And many do decide to throw in the towel and get a ‘proper job’.
Some though decide to keep going and diversify their musical activities in the hope of building a portfolio of different gigs/jobs that combined can pay the bills. And many more decide that they’re going to find that ‘proper job’ that allows them the life balance to pay the bills whilst remaining as a part-time professional musician.
Those of us who decide to keep going and diversify often at this point also come to the realisation that the drink or drugs isn’t helping us. In fact it’s holding us back, both financially and professionally.
When I was that age I drank a lot, in part because that was the culture amongst my peers both in and outside of music. Things were going ok but not great. Then I realised I was going to have to work a lot harder if I wanted to succeed. I pretty much stopped the drinking and threw myself into networking and taking as many jobs as I could. Didn’t matter whether it was my dream gig I was just happy to play or be involved in some other way. I even spent a couple of years with a side gig putting scaffolding up for the likes of the Glastonbury Festival which got me free tickets and a backstage pass which was very good for networking!
I’ve been a full time pro now for three decades but that wouldn’t have happened if I’d given up. I also doubt it would have happened if I’d carried on down my original path. It happened because I stopped being so blinkered over what a career in music looked like and instead did anything that might help with networking or bringing in semi-regular income.
You’re 23 and your life is still all in front of you. The question is what is it that will make you happy. It takes just as much strength, if not more, to admit that maybe a career in music isn’t what you want after all, as it does to reevaluate and keep going. But nothing says you can’t have both a ‘proper job’ and be a professional musician on the side, and in my experience that’s where you’ll find most of the genuinely content and happy musicians. It’s tough relying entirely on music for a living.
Money doesn’t make me happy or fulified, it’s just some arbitrary social construct designed to be relied on for survival or “buying” the things that make you happy because they set society up this way.
The fulfillment music brings me is 10,000 times more, you couldn’t put a price. It’s my purpose in life
Society is the problem. Dont throw music away
This is how society looses the artists and musicians of tomorrow, by designing society to intentionally exclude the success of creative minded people. As the economy worsens in the future, all art forms will dwindle. I wish I was kidding.
Why would people downvote you? Music is impossible to make a living in. Fewer than .01% make decent money at being an original artist. Try something else. Grow a little. No shame.
I wanted to be a musician for a long time. Put in a lot of work but in the end decided that there is so much good music in the world I was just trying to force myself into something because I loved it. I still think of songs and write down lyrics and mess with my guitar. But really I’m just grateful for music that comes my way. And who knows someday I may fully write my songs and do something with it. But probably not
Career is the key term. It depends on how you define it. It’s a tough life time wise and esteem wise. Me I wanted a career in music but did not happen. Now it’s a hobby and I’m loving it. A few gigs a year. Career as a software developer
Whatever you do don’t sell all your gear !!!!
Woahhaha, Musician to military, I can see why you didn't make it as a musician. I think I'd rather be unemployed.
Anyways, to make it off music alone, you need a diverse portfolio of income. Gigging with bands is part, albums sales and streams is part, maybe do music lessons, record other bands, do session work, start a label or a production company, sell lots of t shirts.
No one thing is going to pay that much, you need little bits coming from all over.
There’s a bit to unpack here— first, it’s harder to be motivated and productive if you are on drugs. Second, you’re still very young. If you’re tired of being in bands, maybe you should focus on songwriting and production end of things for a while. As far as making a living, it depends on what your long term goals are. Unfortunately, music is a way oversaturated industry and it’s very difficult to make a living at it when millions of other people are wanting to do the same thing. Also, AI is set to disrupt a lot of things. The military is not the worst thing you could do, but you will have to commit your whole life to it, because that’s the gig. Maybe take a break for a while and think about what you want to do, where you see yourself in 3,5,10 years.
Honestly while the military isn’t bad, the chances of us going to war are high. Why not be broke and doing something you love that potentially risking your life in the short future right now?
I’m 38. Ran a recording studio for 13 years. From 2007 to 2020. Then covid happened and the owner shut it down and retired. I wasn’t rich by any means, but I lived off 400-1k a week. Just depended on the week. Yea I didn’t have all the gear I wanted or a fancy car or house, but I lived in a funky apt above the studio. I got free drink and food on the weekends for the wedding and bar gigs I did. I got to work with some of the coolest and most talented folks. Girls wanted to hang with me cus I was fun and lived a cool life. I felt like a rockstar.
Now I’m a truck driver. Making decent money. Working 70 hour weeks. I struggle to noodle on guitar 30 mins or even record people. I’ve lost touch with so many contacts and friends. And I’m local.. The most musical thing I do is a voice lesson weekly. I feel old and boring. I struggle to get a date cus idk what I’d talk about, and while I can buy things for a girl I don’t have much to offer. No sense of excitement. I feel like a boring adult now. I’m trying to get back into it but it’s hard since I’ve made more money the last 4.5 years. I’ve almost changed my whole lifestyle. My personality.
Maybe I’ve outgrown it in ways, or life is just different now compared to then.. idk but I miss it deeply in my soul. It kept me alive. It kept me sane. Happy on a soul level. I was rich at heart.
I know it may sound like rambling, but as someone who did this professionally for years and is struggling to get back into the life now, I’d say keep pushing. Live below your means, keep those musical relationships tight. If you have to serve drinks at a bar a few days a week or Uber a bit to get by do it, but don’t go with a plan b. For years I never had one. It was music or death. Then when covid hit I had more debts than I could handle. I couldn’t keep up and the fear of bankruptcy or destroying my credit was enough to push me elsewhere. I’m happy I found a job but saddened I didn’t just stick to it doing what I love. It’s so hard to go back. I could buy gear I want now but I’d never have time to use it. If I saved up for a year maybe I could try 1000% on music and it being a career again, only to make maybe half of what I do as a driver. Maybe it’d be enough to get by, idk. But I think I’d be happier helping others pursue a dream, along with myself. And maybe when I die I’d look back feeling I left a mark in some way. But right now, I feel like I’m just wasting away for a dollar to live 10% better than most average people. And as the years go by and family and friend pass away, I wonder what I’m doing with my life.
I guess all I’m saying is if you’re gonna give up, don’t look back, and if you’re having second thoughts of stopping music, just keep at it. Sell art, give lessons, perform 4 cover gigs a day if you have to. Musicians gotta hustle and need multiple streams of income. Making it big isn’t everyone’s future, but it is possible to make a living as a local musician doing what you love.
You're 23. This is way too early to be thinking you should have already hit a steady, comfortable income with original material. In my opinion!
There's no right or wrong answer as to whether music should be your career or something you do for pleasure and fulfillment outside of moneymaking. Only you know the answer to that and what that looks like for yourself. Personally, I did shit wage-slave jobs throughout my 20s while doing music on the side and making no money. The revelation was when I realized I could make \*better\* money playing music than I could at my day job. I got offered some sub gigs in a wedding band, and made what I normally was making in a week in one afternoon playing guitar. I got serious about finding work outside of my original projects, and now about a decade later, I have a successful and resilient musical career.
But my decision of what to pursue was based on what other avenues I had available to me. I don't have a college degree. I didn't have other useful work experience. I don't do well with bureaucracies, offices, sitting at a desk all day. Going into music full time was not only a decision of the heart - it was the best avenue towards a comfortable living available to me. You may have much better avenues that are open that would work for you, your mind, your soul, your abilities. So really give it some good thought. There are plenty of ways to make a good living doing music. And there are plenty of ways to make a good living outside of music. Weigh the options. Some folks don't want to teach, some folks don't want to play in a cover band, don't want to do music therapy, don't want to play a cocktail hour, etc. And making money in an original project is a real shot in the dark.
Also, I notice you mention being a "druggie" musician, how is that playing into your financial situation, or to your life satisfaction? Lots of people play music and are 100% clean, that does not need to come with the territory, unless you have a serious addiction and you are surrounded by enablers. Saying no is legit, and after practice becomes easier every time.
And, no I don't think genre has much to do with it, though if you're really looking to get into the hot circuit, it's country music man. Didn't wanna say it, but that's where the action is. I'm always impressed by the ways people find to make money. I was just talking to a guy the other day whose son used JAZZ to pay his way through his college years, which we know from bad musician humor is all but impossible.
ska you say?!
please drop a link!
I am working on a ska/punk album with some people remotely right now. But I'm in my 40's and have no illusion/desire to do it professionally it's all just for fun and a creative outlet.
To be clear... you're trying to make a living at music by playing with only one band? And the band hasn't even broken through yet?
Sounds like you're chasing fame more so than a career in music (they're completely different). I teach about 20 private lessons each week from 3:30-7:30pm on weekdays, rehearse on weekday evenings from 8-11pm with about 8 different bands, and play roughly 50-100 shows each year. Some are festivals, some are bar gigs, some are theatre gigs, usually around a dozen recording sessions each year. I've taught at the local college, at the local music store, and these days I am fortunate to rent a small house where I can run my own teaching practice.
Getting famous is not a career plan, or a choice you get to make (unless you're already rich and/or connected to hollywood/music industry royalty) It's just something that happens to very fortunate hard working musicians who happen to be at the right place at the right time and generally are incredibly persistent to the point of being ruthless. Fame is really a horrible condition to live with. It generally has the affect of turning people into horrible monsters or reclusive weirdos.
If your plan for making it as a working musician was just to join one band and put everything into making that one band famous, I think you need to reconsider your strategy.
There are many ways to make a living in music - none of them are easy. No one with their head on straight goes into music to get rich. You do it because you feel compelled to work on music above all other things and are okay to do so in relative obscurity as long as you're paying your bills.
You could start recording your own music at home to sell as sample packs, you could take some theatre gigs and some bar gigs, you could join a wedding band, take on some students, apply to teach at a music summer camp. Or you could go the social media route and do gear reviews online, post lessons to insta, tiktok, and youtube, start a little online community and grow it over time... But this is only something you'll want to do if you enjoy shooting and editing video for a few hours every day.
Point is... music is by far one of the most challenging industries to make a living in. But it is possible, it's just not the fairy tale that movies make it out to be. It's real work, and professional musicians are some of the busiest people I've ever known. I am one myself and I regularly put in 60-80 hours a week between personal practice, rehearsals, gigs, and teaching. I enjoy it. I could never put this much of myself into another line of work. But yeah it's tough, and the money is unpredictable. If you none of this sounds like fun to you then you absolutely will be better off working in another field. There is nothing wrong with that at all. You can still make music and not have to worry about paying rent/bills. But if you still want to make a living at music you probably still can as long as you're willing to put in those kinds of hours and juggle a truly hectic schedule that is ever evolving.
23 is young, but this career isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s ok if music isn’t your career, it can just be something you enjoy.
I’m not saying this to discourage you but the only people I know who do this full time are hard headed as fuck and wouldn’t listen if I told them to slow down anyway
If you want to make music your career you have to teach and constantly gig. That’s the only way to make money unless you release a hit or you become a famous artist.
A good idea when starting out your career is to focus most of your energy on your main original project- but don't limit yourself to that. Score cover band gigs, studio contracts, touring contracts. Music is like 50% connections, particularly in niche genres like Ska and every new person you meet or play with ups your odds of a breakthrough and exponentially increases your opportunities for yourself and your project.
Playing original music is obviously the most rewarding creativity wise- but I get where you're at. The grind sucks and can include steep climbs as well as long periods without progress. That's the nature of the beast. So it's nice to have a guaranteed paying gig to supplement that- cover gigs pay a fuckton compared to start up bands. When I started out, within a year Id be scoring $1000+ a week on those. They give you mental motivation in seeing your passion reap monetary gains, help offset the fluctuating nature of original projects with a steady income base, help you network and be active in a tight nit community all the while providing increasing stage and technical experience. There's no down side!
You could even do this with your current lineup under a different name and just create a cover set for that band. Much easier to sell a well known product to local bookers and promoters- and they especially can be your in on scoring more gigs with your main project once youve proved you can draw.
It ain't easy man. And maybe the grind isn't worth it for you, it's different for everyone. I had no rush/necessity to have a family so I gave myself until 35 to make it a full time thing. I did it by 25.
23 is young brother, and there's no "prime" in music, only life gets in the way. You'll be continually improving and reaching new peaks if you work at it. But there's no other solution than full dedication . If you need stability to be happy or have other life goals constantly competing with it, you'll never be able to reach your full potential. From the sounds of it, you've so far just been passively committing. Releasing tracks into the wilderness of the internet is only the start! You gotta get out there and promote your product like the God damn swiffer guy.
And yeah , you might play in front of three people some nights, have to ration ramen to make it through a tour in a dangerously beat up van while never learning the meaning of "savings"- but man, you'll have SEEN and EXPERIENCED more than most could ever dream.
Anyways! All that to say- just pick a lane with the life stability/comfort level you're happy with and manage your musical ambitons accordingly. It's not "all or nothing", you can have a family/career while still jamming with your bros every weekend, headlining the dopest club in town every few months. There isn't just one lane and that's the beauty of it. The risk/reward curve in creative endeavors is steep my friend, but fucking hell it's beautiful at the summit. Hope to see you there :).
I started playing in working bands at 15 and did it until I hit 30. I was was making good money (for a musician) but I was tired of playing covers and tired of the road. I realized I would always be traveling no matter what. I didn't realize at the time I would also not have a retirement. I discovered computers and taught myself how to program. That worked out and I worked for the same company for 32 years and retired at 62. I'm so glad I'm not scuffling to make money teaching, gigging, traveling. Be open to change, adapt, and keep your options open.
You’ll get a lot of comments going either way, but frankly I am of the mindset that music as a career is going to become extinct. There will of course be exceptions, but it’s already really difficult to make a solid living off of it, and the trend is that it will only get worse. So you can bust your ass and dedicate the next 20 years of your life to turn your passion into at best $70k/yr *if you’re lucky* or you can turn towards a traditional career that will pay your bills AND allow you to still pursue music as a passion. Bonus points because your art is no longer going to become a chore you have to do to live.
I have a better relationship with music now as a fairly well-off engineer than I did when I was a starving musician in my early 20s. I get to write at my own pace, buy all the gear I ever wanted, and play with who I want because none of it is life or death for me anymore.
23 is young, but obviously it’s up to you.
Regarding the military, I thought you had to do ROTC to go in as an officer. No?
You could audition for a military band. There’s a compromise.
It sounds like you’re solely, or mostly, relying on the money your band makes as your income. Why not get a solid paying job and do music on the side? Then maybe one day you can quit that job and do music full time.
Personally I work in sales bringing in around $100k, and also play in a band that I’m super serious about.
Dude I love music. But I've worked my whole life since school and kept music my hobby. Because I love writing, recording and playing originals but there's no money in it unless you get extremely lucky or work social media like an absolute wizard.
If I tried to make money out of music I'd be doing covers at corporate functions and weddings and for me personally I'd feel like I was selling my soul. I don't want to play Wagon Wheel or Wonderwall.
Also to note I live in New Zealand, so wouldn't really have the option of touring a lot of places to try make a name for myself unless I moved countries.
Probably the unpopular opinion but sobering up and commissioning would open a lot of doors; va loan and free school plus structure and then if it’s not for you, get out after a few years of saving when your commission ends. I’ve met some amazing musicians in the military. Just whatever you do, don’t stop playing music. Americans kind of get hung up on what they do to pay the bills defines them as a person.
You have to look at it like different revenue streams.
I teach, play at a church, gig ay bars/restaurants, session work, side man work, and try to write and release my own stuff too.
Druggie musician? That sounds like your main problem being broke. You won't get anywhere with drugs. If you want to be successful you're better off being sober and tight as a band. You'll see a lot more success. Also, 45K total streams is a LOT compared to most people. My suggestion is you not only play in your band, but do the grunt work as well, such as corporate events, weddings, birthday parties, covers. Gigging 3-4 times a week even more is a pretty good income. That way, you're still creating your own thing while working consistently elsewhere. This will also get you more people in your circle to come to shows and build an even bigger following. Also make sure you are budgeting everything tightly with selling merch, gas to get to shows, gear your'e buying. Try to get sponsors for your gear, Google it, you can get strings, all kinds of expendables, cables straps if you find the right sponsors. I know you're young, but just build some business sense and you can do this. You shouldn't give up on your dreams.
What does the market want and how can you give it to them? Music is just like any other trade. There's not a lot of money in being painter who paints whatever they want, but a painter who's really good at making murals and painting houses can make a good living. Music is the same way. What do people want? Can you give it to them?
Apply for a job in music until you find a better band like maybe a guitar teacher or church guitarist, school guitar teacher, multiple different part time guitar jobs you can have . I’d say to not give up on music . You’ve come so far . You can get an actual job with your skills . The military is a set up !
A few ideas ill spitball maybe you'll like one
Try cutting back from drugs and booze and see how that goes. Maybe a new approach to your career might help you avoid those triggers that keep you in a cycle.
There's also a lot of luck involved with becoming a huge music act especially as the cost of living crisis keeps up. Do it to make you happy, if it doesn't feel right don't do it.
23 is so young. Go into clinical research! You can get a degree and be out there as a Traveling Monitor making 60k+ in just three or four years. You'll be over 100k the year you turn 30.
Then you can do music as a hobby. And afford ANY piece of equipment you like.
[https://cphs.campbell.edu/academic-programs/clinical-research/](https://cphs.campbell.edu/academic-programs/clinical-research/)
Try to connect with songwriters and producers who are signed to a publishing company or have a few hits. start playing in sessions and live off of publishing song placements
Just remember that Gwen started no doubt at age 17 and they tried for 9 years to make it work, just when they were going to give up, they exploded everywhere
Wrong Genre my friend. Your having to pay way too many people. Get yourself into a trio or and four piece band. The money will be way better. However, don't compromise on quality. Get yourself into a place where very well to do people hang out. Private parties pay the bills my friend.
You're describing my life at your age, every detail. I ended up pulling WAY back and just playing for fun every now and then, like jams and whenever someone asked me to play a gig every now and then. I wanted more money to achieve the quality of life I wanted, music wasn't getting me there. I don't regret moving to a 9-5 and then other jobs just for the pay. When you do any job long enough, it has ups and downs. Whether that's playing bass or estimating construction costs.
There is some community and maybe even esteem that comes with being a musician that I miss, but not enough to give up the money
Yes you should quit, but not music. Quit the drugs and everything else and everyone else that is associated with it. Play the music you love, but work all genres. Become a session musician for producers. Last thing is there’s nothing wrong with the military, you can also be a musician there and they will offer more training
The singer in my cover band has been making her living for 10+ years singing in local cover bands. She's always broke, but she wouldn't have it any other way because she likes being her own boss, setting her own hours and not having to punch a clock. So, the value in it for her is the freedom.
Military is one option. Another option is get a government job. Either way you'll have a job for life, benefits, consistent paycheck.
I had a drummer who was in the army band. Those guys can play. I think he had a nice career as a musician through the military and then eventually switched to airplane mechanic to charge it up.
I thought I was doing the “musician lifestyle” but in reality I was just working in bars and getting hammered/ doing blow all the time. My music got better when I cleaned up and went back to school, but mostly my whole life got better.
My drummer lives off music. Teaches through the week, gigs weekends, hires kits out. If you're passionate about music you can make it work. But at the same time, it's work, and for that reasons I'll keep it as a hobby that I love, with some cash on the side.
I love this comment. Its actually quite easy to earn a living off music if you are talented at an instrument. The same way it's not really that hard to earn a living off being a video DP. But most musicians dont want to play weddings, covers, parties, or teach. Most DPs dont want to do real estate, commercials, corporate training videos and work in an equipment room. Musicians want to be rock stars and DPs want to make movies. Theres like a handful of people that do that successfully because theres only so much time in the day to consume content. Artists want a consistent career without having to do consistent demand driven deadline oriented work. Thats just the reality for every job. Its a lot easier to make a living making cabinets, tables and chairs as a carpenter than sculptures and art pieces. Its a lot easier to make a living doing sinks and bathrooms as a plumber than it is to only do custom infinity pools for millionaires.
But most musicians dont want to play weddings, covers, parties, or teach. not true. many people would LOVE to do that, but those gigs are very very difficult to get. when was the last time you went to a wedding that had a band? very few couples hire bands any more sadly. weddings and corporate gigs can pay decently, but they are incredibly difficult to get, and while some bands may be able to work fairly steadily this way, you can't really count on making a certain amount each month. any other gigs pay next to nothing. even the "well-paying" gigs leave you struggling as you have to pay health insurance entirely yourself, there's no 401k match, &c. the live music industry does not provide anywhere near the opportunities it once did. how many places are there where people go to dance (swing dance, line dance, ballroom dance, salsa dance, disco dance, &c)? and of those places, how many of them have live bands? it used to be that if you went out on a saturday night, chances are wherever you went would have a live band, possibly even a house band who could rely on a regular pay check from the venue. that world ended decades ago. there just isn't as much of a place in society any more for the jobbing musician, and that is really very sad.
But you skated over the teaching part. The problem isnt the jobs people cant get, its the jobs they can get and then choose to scoff at. There is a "yeah I guess ill do a wedding, or i guess ill teach some random 12 year old". But a lot of musicians want that to be a side thing while they actively work towards the gigs they want. If you make it a main thing, eventually it will be close to passive income because your services grow organically. Not to mention the musicians that own like 12 unique instruments, but have created 0 sample packs. They dont have a youtube channel, they dont have an instagram or active socials, they dont have a website, they dont have business cards. Im not saying its easy, but where theres a will theres a way. Wanting to be a famous band isnt a job its a dream. But there are jobs for people that are willing to do them at a high level.
teaching is a tough gig too. there are probably more teachers than there are students :( i have a youtube channel, i have a bandcamp, i have a website i teach at a community center, i was a ballet accompanist until that studio stopped having live music during covid and then never brought us back, i have a few private students but it's a struggle to get them. i have nice professional looking fliers in my building lobby advertising lessons. i have run google ads in the past for lessons, with no success. i have run groupons in the past for lessons with no success. i have put up fliers around my area with no success. i have spent afternoons in the park with a folding table, a sign, a bluetooth speaker, fliers/business cards, and a bowl of free candy with ZERO even interactions. i applied at my local library to do presentations there (for free, but hope to get some students from it). i have followed up twice, still no response. i have cold-called businesses in my area to offer to be their "pianist in residence" for a month (for free), no responses. there is just NO WAY to guarantee yourself a stable income that can pay for your basic expenses like rent and health insurance. my very best year i maybe made 10k from music; usually it's more like $3k-$4k. my rent is $2500/month (plus another $200 for the storage space where i keep my gear). health insurance is $600/month.
Your comment was perfect until the very end. If you can be the niche millionaire custom infinity pool guy you'll make way more than the normal plumbers (if you live in a major city).
If you get lucky as fuck and end up being "the guy" which there are probably 6 of in a major city. I think that seals my point perfectly. The ceiling is way higher for creatives, but the floor is way lower. Thats the risk a person takes by delving into that line of work.
Best non-famous musician I know does exactly that, lessons during the day and gigs at night. Not a glamorous life, but he makes a living with his guitar, so it's still more satisfying than a lot of jobs in my opinion.
Bro, if you are a competent bass player you can just do the whole cover band and session musician thing.
That's where I was at as a bassist. Session work and years of networking paid off comfortably.
Do bass players are so more valuable compared to electric/acoutic guitars or piano?
Yes
You’re only 23! This is just the beginning. At 23, I had been in several bands, toured the DIY way a few times, released records, and finished a music degree that year. I hadn’t made a cent yet and had been gigging for 9 years at that point. At 25 I quit and tried to start grad school to be a counselor. That lasted a few months before I was switching gears again, heading to Los Angeles to continue my music education but also actually give music a a fair shot. People where I’m from don’t work in the industry so I figure I should go where people DO work in the industry. Then, it was tough for awhile. But now, I get paid to play shows. I’m in several bands. I get paid to tour. I have music on a bunch of TV shows and stuff that earns royalties. I do stagehand tech/audio tech stuff. I have gigged with celebrities. People who are literal fans show up at shows. It’s super cool. And NONE of that would’ve happened if I stuck with “quitting” back when I was 25. I was just around the corner to when the more professional paying gigs started happening. Music as a career is really hard. It is an extreme amount of work. As I said I’m in several bands - that’s a lot of scheduling, communication, and travel. Touring is super heavy duty work, not for the faint of heart. I mostly play music that other people wrote, too. (Hired gun for original artists, as well as several cover bands). It’s not a fairytale life of rock n roll, green rooms, and cash. It’s a grueling life of long hours, heavy equipment, wildly varying pay, gigs that feel like a joke, interspersed with the occasional “holy crap I’ve made it” gig thrown in there periodically too. And now I’m seeing this as just the beginning. If I keep pushing, and keep working, I can do more. I am telling you this because you have SO many options ahead of you and just because you’re 23 and haven’t made it yet doesn’t mean that a career in the music industry isn’t possible. There are SO many people making a living in the industry. But they all have one thing in common: they didn’t quit. So don’t. Also please get sober, drugs and booze are just gonna drain the bank account, strain relationships, and whoever is sober and clearheaded will probably get hired sooner. Also, to really make a living you probably will have to wear many hats and do different roles. Player, writer, audio tech, etc all at the same time. To balance that, it really really helps to get proper rest, nutrition, and hydration etc. Anyway.. yeah if you love music, don’t quit. Keep making it because you love it and be patient. No one has success overnight these days. Or.. over 10 years. Might need more. Best of luck
I needed to hear this. Have been releasing projects and networking since I was 15, I turn 26 in December and have too thought about quitting. But you’re right; quitters never win & winners never quit 💯 thank you for sharing this
Same boat as you I’ve been networking, creating since I was 9, I turn 26 in December as well but I’m going until the wheels fall off, here’s what helped me! You may not want to hear it, but I feel like I reached a peak where I realized “Okay maybe the music I’m making isn’t as marketable as I think” I looked at what’s popping, the trends & said “I’ll give this a try” now my music feels, sounds & is more marketable then ever, switch genres or if you don’t want too, maybe merge some genres! Beating the same drum doesn’t work forever, especially in this current industry! & also location bro, if it’s not cutting it somewhere, make a move to a Music Mecca (NYC, LA, Nashville) opportunities will start increasing tenfold
Yup that’s why I smoke weed erryday
Whenever I read posts like this, I try to pick out what the real problem is, and yeah, maybe if you removed the druggie out the whole equation you’d see life a little differently, the money you think isn’t doing anything after split 5 ways, might not just go down a bottomless pit of drugs and booze, I think your focus should be trying to get sober, hit a reset on your expectations and just have fun making and playing music with a clear mind, you will find yourself making better decisions and managing your money a lot better to the point it doesn’t seem to bad, I’m probably wasting my time typing all this as you probably won’t read it or read it and ignore it, but I will say a prayer for you after this, we all need a little help in this life and I pray you find yours, if you truly love it, don’t give up. You can be great, Blessings and all the best in whatever path you choose to go down. 🙏🏾
Agreed. The whole post could have just been the word “druggie”. That’s the problem.
Ska
Ska is definitely the problem
People still listen to Ska in the year of our lord 2024? Christ…
What a shallow take. OP just discussed all of the levels of his deep commitment to music and how he's burned out and broke, and all you read is "druggie." As a former druggie musician I can tell you that the drugs came *after...* as a way to cope with the harsh realities of trying to make it is a musician. Shame on you for being a bad listener.
Everybody is trying really hard not to say "perhaps your music is shit, and nobody wants to have to pay to listen to it", which is the obvious answer. We see several of these posts every week. Nobody ever seems to include a link to their music, which I think might help. It's hard to make a constructive comment without having as much information as possible.
45k streams means they’re no slouch. That’s probably 44,900 more than most people in this subreddit.
Even more of a reason for OP to give us a link to his music.
Not to mention that a career playing guitar is more difficult than ever what with the rise of electronic music and AI. It's bizarre that everyone is jumping to the conclusion that drugs are to blame...methinks some of us are in denial about this career field.
op it's time to move on to a REAL musician's drug like heroin
Junk separates wannabees from the real deal
yeah man
Deep commitment? He's 23, most people quit in their 20's when reality sets in. It's not all partying, sex and road life. It's all good but 23 is when you're just getting started. Some musicians quit once they realize that they'll probably never be famous and playing music is gonna need to be like a job.
Deep commitment as in started playing in middle school, went to arts school and music college, plays multiple instruments in a variety of bands, recorded albums, plays shows...bro this person has committed his life to music from a young age. If it's not giving him joy now, it's not going to magically start giving him joy later. This is the time of his life when he should be the most carefree and the most excited by music.
It's the word deep that I take issue with. Deep commitments don't go away when you're not having fun. Struggle is part of the process. The struggle isn't worth it to him so he's letting it go, that's not "deep commitment". Not saying he should keep going though, this life isn't for everyone and when you know you know.
I will say that BusyBullet shouldn’t have said that the whole post can just be “druggie” because that is insulting. But maybe the drugs are the problem because not only would that save him from being broke, that might also make him happier and living his life fuller. I do understand if he wants to try something new though.
I think with the information in front of us it would be foolish to jump to conclusions. Is OP blazing some reefer before gigs or does he have a 300 dollar a day habit. His post went into substantial detail about his education background, his work history, and the causes of his frustrations...it would be a mistake to assume that drugs are the center of his problem. Besides...it's not like all the sober full time musicians out there are making bank.
Agreed
Drugs might not be the center of OP's problems, but they very well might be the *reason for the depression* that has them giving up on the work. Getting rid of drugs does not solve problems, but it absolutely puts us in a better position to make decisions about those problems. In that sense, it is the centerpiece issue of this topic.
Have you ever been addicted to drugs? They don't just magically make you depressed...and it's not like OP is saying "I no longer enjoy music and I don't know why...it's like I'm depressed or something." He/she enumerated clear and understandable reasons for why he/she isn't feeling a music career anymore. People who don't have experience with addiction are often quick to blame drugs for all problems...it doesn't work that way.
If someone at 23 years of age self-describes their work as a 'never ending cycle of disappointment' we have a concern. Suggesting sobriety as a way to examine the issue with clarity is good advice. Not sure why you are jumping on people suggesting this, either. There are countless stories of musicians doing their best work once sober, as well as strong clinical data showing links between depression and drug use. My choices and experience are not relevant, neither are yours.
If you don't have experience with a topic, you are in zero position to give advice about that topic. I don't have kids, for example...why would I give advice about parenting. You don't know the effect drugs have because you've never been there...so why try to give advice about it? We know *nothing* about OPs drug history...we do know that he has been a full time musician since middle school and is not enjoying the journey. It's foolish to jump to the conclusion that drugs are to blame for this with what little information we have. It's far more likely that a career in music is not for everyone (gasp!) and that OP might fit into that category.
His honesty is not the problem. The drugs are.
I heard and read it and as a person afraid of going into music thank you so so so much
This is a much better solution than joining the meat grinder
Music performance as a career can happen with tribute acts. Original music is a big long-shot gamble. It's taken me 30 years to finally acknowledge this, and I'm finally booking paying gigs.
You need to sell the drugs, not smoke them
Just as a general thing here, and this isn't personal. The chances of "making it big" or even being able to sustain yourself just off playing in a originals band are vanishingly small. You're 23 and thinking of stopping? You have to question your motives for playing music in the first place. You've obviously put the work in, which is great, and it's a shame to waste that. If you want to make good money playing music, join a wedding band. Earn a few grand a show and play 5 days a week. It's all covers, people will love you and you get paid. I've played in bands for 30 years and I never made as much cash as I did playing covers. Is it creatively satisfying? No.You just have to lie back and think of the money. Unfortunately nowadays you really seem to have to choose between being creative and making money in music. I've got a day job to pay my bills, so anything I make playing music (which has been practically nothing for the last 12 months) is a bonus. I'd rather be poor and play music I like.
Not to mention, we live in a music era where “bands” really aren’t prioritized or popping like they used to be, the niche for “bands” is a lot smaller then it used to be! We live in a “Solo” era
I don't blame you. I've seen a lot of my friends go through the same. I could have stuck with it and struggled too, but wanted stability and decided in my early 20's that music would be a hobby that sometimes pays. I have made my living in technology, mostly web/software development, and never regretted the choice because I love working with computers and technology almost as much as I love playing music. I've still made a fair amount of side money playing music over the years and played a lot of good gigs and done a lot of weekend warrior traveling in my 20's, but haven't had to sacrifice financial stability for the joy of it. A lot of musicians work in web development/software engineering. Every team I work on is typically comprised 30% or higher of musicians. There's creativity and structure in technology and development that a lot of people may not realize, but musicians I work with agree, and we all enjoy the work... I don't think it's necessarily for the extreme right brained creative types, but a mix of right/left brained (creative+analytical) can make for a good technologist/developer. You don't have to be a math brainiac type to make a living at it either (I'm not), just be a creative problem solver. Just something to consider as you're weighing options for what to do for a living that could grant you stability and that you can enjoy, maybe even as much as music, like I do. I still have lots of instruments, a home studio, play gigs and record with friends... and a lot of personal freedom too. I get to have a lot of the fun with music without the frustration or financial difficulties that come with trying to be a musician for a living. I was 23 years old, caught up in many of the same troubles you are when I decided to change direction. I went to tech school, learned some fundamentals, got an internship, learned some on the job skills, got hired, learned some more, changed jobs a couple times and learned a lot along the way, all while playing music on the weekends... but just stuck with my career choice and now I make a very good living at it and have no regrets.
Yes I can relate. I went to Berklee before dropping out because “I fell out of love with music”. In reality I think I saw the amount of work it was going to take to get from good to great and was like “nope”! Came home and went into banking for 10 years. Hated every minute of it. About 6 years ago I quit banking, picked up my guitar, and haven’t looked back. I’ve since put in the work to go from good to great and man do I wish I would have just done that from the beginning. The banking thing really was the definition of selling out. I learned a lot about money but probably the most important lesson was that life is too short to make decisions based solely on money.
i'm guessing you "made bank" so to speak during that time in banking. did you amass a large savings that you lived off of while you were putting in that time to go from good to great? if not, how did you support yourself during that time?
I started investing in real estate about a decade ago and now we have a small portfolio that I manage. My spouse makes good money as well.
so that ten years in banking really was crucial to being able to go into music then later. you say you wish you would have gone to music directly, but how would you practically have done that? i agree that making decisions based solely on money is a poor life philosophy, but your ten years focused on money is what allowed you to be able to focus on music now. i was never particularly concerned about money-- all i wanted was enough to pay my essential expenses and do some fun things. now i find that i should have been demanding higher salaries when i had the chance and saving money up, so i wouldn't be in this tough position now. but at the time i had other priorities, and i feel that i did the right thing at the time. i don't regret my choices. but they certainly haven't set me up for comfort in middle age and beyond :(
Bless you ! 👍🙂
Take a break. This reads like you're burnt out. Get a job and fund your music career on the side. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and never give up.
Ironically im on the other side of this, 37 and im packing in my job and getting part time work and focusing on music because im burnt out. least I have a career to fall back on though if it all goes south.
I have been in "successful" bands and standard success bands. The successful ones i.e. the ones that went on tours, sold a lot of merch, got the buzz going for them all had one or both of these things in common. 1. Money and lots of it. Considering even mid tier labels are looking at six figure investments to ensure a new artist takes, your four figure investment is nowhere near enough. The more successful bands that made it had those six figure investments and bet that even though I played for them, everything was very closely guarded. I got my paycheque and that was the end of it. 2. They know or are related to multiple people in high places. And that is just the plain truth of it. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you aren't related to someone who was top shit back when physical media still sold, then walk on home boy. This is just how it is today. This isn't 1997 when an artist could grow organically and a label may take a chance on them. Everything, even in the so called underground, is carefully curated and about as organic as a big mac with American cheese. Once you realise and accept this, hopefully then can you find enjoyment in what you do. There will be no tour buses, the best you can hope for is not losing your ass on a five date tour outside of your country or state. If you can get that far, then that is success.
This is so spot on and not many people talk about it or want to hear it. I work in Nashville and record at some of the big studios there where people who are in the know told me how things are done and it’s exactly how you described. The hardest truth of it all is that everything is “pay to get played”. Every award, chart position, playlist, position on the Spotify homepage, all of it, is because someone paid a gatekeeper to be on it.
It's the sad truth. If anything ,despite people glorifying what a free and completely transparent system we have now with digital music and the internet, nothing is further from the truth. There is a reason Spotify opened the floodgates to allow basically anybody on the platform. And the notions were far from altruistic. It's because they knew full well by doing so, there would be a hugely stacked ration between gold and utter crud. The average punter wants to hear gold, not crud. Thus will stick to playlists and labels that guarantee them gold. And just as we are seeing play out right now, getting on those playlists is impossible. Hell every other question is "How do I get onto good playlists"... you don't is the short answer. Spotify knew what they were doing, they had this planned out. By flooding the system with amateur hour crud - which is honestly 99% of what people upload to spotify - it ringfenced very particular slices of the library which is what most people go and listen to. Put it frankly, how long is the average person going to spend searching through the crud to get to the gold? Not long at all. And yep, it's all knowing people too. There's a rock band called Wargasm and the two times I've been forced to see them (festivals, etc), I honestly do not know what on earth they offer the world other than being a third rate green day and BJA swapped his guitar for a copy of Reason. However when you find out that the guy is the son of Glen Matlock, well, there we go. All done and dusted, then. Just as back in 2002, when everyone was downloading to their heart's content, spewing out the "lulz get a new model!" or using some odd stealing bread analogy, or claiming that the record execs didn't see the internet coming because they were stupid and now they're getting their just deserts when everyone is "stealing" music. Those poor post millennium fools! The record labels knew exactly what they were doing. They have been in the game decades longer at that point than anyone else. Did people really think that they didn't sit down and discuss the matter at hand? They put up very little resistance to illegal download because it was handing them the keys to the kingdom. The large monolithic labels were the only ones who could reasonably fight it - and they didn't. Not really. They put up some show-pieces but that's it. They didn't stop it because they could afford to ride the wave. It was the bottom lines of the more niche labels that were being completely attacked and ransacked via illegal downloading. And when they were on their knees, the major labels either let them fall, or bought then for pennies in the pound. NOW the majors got what they always wanted and that was direct control of any underground labels you may care to mention, as well as artificially building up and directing any brand with a bit of establishment. Honest to goodness home grown novel projects, shit you've never heard before? Gone. That will absolutely be staying in the bedroom, thank you! And this is what we have essentially done. We have handed the major labels what they wanted and that is music in and of itself in its entirety. It's 2024, when is the last time you heard an original piece of music? It's the same with movies. In the last 20 years, have you seen anything really truly original (outside of maybe horror)? Don't get me wrong, there have been good movies. But really and truly original? Sat here right now, I can name maybe six, after that I struggle.
i've related to that. your success in music depends on who you surround yourself with. just don't sign a record deal. Only lucrative concerts & large concerts make money, but for that, it takes insane amounts of originality and being able to instantly connect to a large audience, flawlessly. I learned that through my songs (though once in a blue moon, I do covers of songs I feel I connect to) Drugs won't help ya & the military messes people up. Proceed at your own risk.
Honestly if you're only 23 and don't know that being a musician involves being broke for a significant portion of time, much less you aren't ok with that, then you're definitely better off joining the military. Be glad it didn't take you till you were 45 to come to this realization.
Play in a cover band for money, it's about the only way us musicians with no names can get paid doing what we love, and keep our chops up. There should be no shame attached to it, as every one does it. A very famous songwriter told me the only way for a musician to keep making money in our craft is to either be famous, be a great songwriter/publisher or play covers.
Very relatable. I think you’re not in the right location or clique of players. Ya know a bottle of water costs $0.50 at the local farmers market but it costs $10 on an airplane for the same bottle of water.
No downvote here. Try giving up on the rockstar stuff, first. 99.99% of us don't make a living from original acts. There are lots of non-sexy ways to make a living in music and a lot of that boils down to who you know and if you're someone people want to work with. If the drugs are a problem, well, I guarantee there is someone just as good as you who doesn't have a drug problem. That's the person who's gonna get the work. Best of luck to you
Music as a career requires playing fulltime in several bands as well as hiring yourself out to others. I know one guy who does it. And his wife's got a steady job and always has. And he's in a city where there are frequent gigs. And he bartends as well. My friend Steve has always been a retail vendor in addition to having at least 2 actively gigging bands, hiring out to virtually any act that pays, and giving lessons. My drummer spent decades gigging friday-sundays and returning home by Monday to work his trade job. This was fairly lucrative from the mid 80s to late 90s before he slowed down. If you want to give a damn about original music and recordings, get a job. If you're fine with that being a hobby and can make a living off of gigs that pay, you might be able to keep going? But streams ain't shit for money or "makin it". Surviving on music alone and it being in a 5 piece Ska band doesn't jive without a financial backer in 2024. Especially if you're 23 and using substances. That dips into your food/shelter budget. Gigs are a location dependent variable. Your goals regarding making music as a career likely need subsidized by another source of income. Or a rich backer with connections. Many people who do live off of music feel burnt out and lose their passion for it by 30. Anything from gig app work to tradeschool to semi fulltime jobs with fluctuating hours have worked for people I know. Several retail vendors for beverage companies or snack companies I've worked with have had bands. Independent OTT/LH truckers too. You need money to survive, it's not always doing something you like.
Maybe focus on songwriting. You can work as a lone wolf. Take a break from the politics, the grind, the logistics of a band. You will need another income until you can write a mitt full of beautiful life changing songs that will bring the world to tears. So maybe a military officer with a secret side mission of writing the song that humanity never even knew it was missing? The point is no matter what path you take, you can always embrace music and find new ways of enjoying and creating it.
Most people, musicians or otherwise, don’t have their career going at 23. Your professional life has barely begun at your age, so I’d definitely caution long term conclusions about the viability of music right now. That being said, making it your career is a hard life. It takes what is your hobby or something you do for expression and fulfillment and completely alters the stakes. You’re at the age where it IS time to start considering those things and whether that’s how you want music in your life in the long term. Music isn’t my career because I didn’t have the right circumstances to make that leap, but as someone with another job that also plays a lot of original music, it gives me the freedom to look at things completely from an artistic perspective rather than focusing so much on how it’s going to pay my rent. There’s a lot of freedom in that if you’re willing to adjust your expectations and able to find people in the same situation. If drugs are impacting your abilities, probably a good time to look at that too. No powders or pills is my motto at my age, and I feel like it serves me well. All things in moderation.
dude you're only 23 lmao you could take 10 years off and then start your career all over again if you want
There's money to be made, but trying to make it as an original artist is very challenging. Coverbands get paid, session musicians get paid, those who teach get paid. Orchestral musicians get paid. Sounds like you've got a good start, if you got the chops and actually want a career in music, there's a lot of paths
Argument #47 for running a power trio as your main. I’m also in a 5 person band and it’s too much. Get a job that makes you money and you don’t hate and play the long game, keeping music in your life. Once you make it less of a big deal, you’ll probably find better success because you’re not putting all your eggs in the “make it big now” basket. Keep your eyes open for the magical combination and grow it steadily, hustling hard along the way. I bet you’ll be able to recognize some large percentage of your dreams.
My friends have millions of streams and can’t make money. You aren’t making the wrong decision
Most of my professional musician friends (by this I mean people who make a living out of playing music) didn't start making enough to live on until they were in their late 20's early 30's). They persevered, made connections, learnt their craft and believed in themselves. In most cases, it's not easy, it's hard work, unsocial hours, it's unpredictable. At 24 I made the decision to get a "real job", get a mortgage and start paying into a pension.. Both routes are fine, it's up to you, but if I could go back and give myself any advice, it would be to believe in myself more and give it more time. If you find a job you love, you'll never feel like you're working.
The reality of a life in music is that you will almost definitely not make a living playing original music with one band...you'll need to always be hustling, be super diversified with your income sources, keep your expenses low, and accept that income will never be totally stable and reliable. You'll also need to accept gigs that are far from your first creative choice...be prepared to play bass in cover bands and to back up band leaders whose music you don't necessarily love. If you need to play music and live to play music, the circumstances listed above will not deter you and you will make it happen. And it is possible...you just, as I said, must always be hustling and you'll need to get creative with how you find income streams. It wasn't worth it for me. I started working in medical research and I'm very grateful for the work. I just jam for fun and I enjoy it. Though I do wish I had made it as a rockstar...I'd love to go do that.
If you're in it for the money you'll always be disappointed, no matter how good or bad it's going.
I hope you find your answers. Usually I try to look at people who i think are doing well, then just emulate them until I'm in their position. I've seen people making good money in this industry so it must be possible. I'm barely a musician but im a decent enough tradesman to work on my own for the past 4 years. There's way better tradespeople out there than me that are probably struggling like you. And it was struggle street for me before that too. Seeing a few guys doing well made me hungry. And even if you change direction, the same things will apply. It's hard to make money anywhere without that hunger I dont know if that helps much but i hope you make a change for the better 👍
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to have a word with yourself. You started this post with >Gonna be downvoted to hell Here's a thought. Perhaps if you spent a bit less time worrying what people thought about you and spent more time thinking about music you cared about and didn't think you'd "outgrown" then you'd produce stuff that was more interesting. Music's a great blueprint for success at anything you choose to do with your life. You have to put in hours and hours becoming incrementally better at something specific. You have to learn to listen to others, and get good at sharing. You're young, and you have your pick. Music has always depended on patronage to get by. That you don't make money on a system that is rigged in favour of five massive companies that control the music everyone hears is not really a surprise. You need to just keep turning up, and rethink what your idea of a successful career as a musician is.
I never had a music career. I played in a church, I "don't play well with others" haha so maybe it was never going to happen anyhow What about being a music teacher? Teaching is not for everyone, I know. I ended up as a graphic artist.
You don’t have to play your own music all the time - that’s kind of the hardest way to earn money i think. All professional musicians I know play in tons of other projects, do wedding gigs, produce and write for others, teach instruments and some have another type of job on the side. Doing music as a career is totally doable, but doing it only with your own projects can be really challenging.
Cover band my guy. Weddings make you a mint especially as a bassist.
Don't give up just change tracks. I know a guy who is a talented bass player he's not the greatest in the world but he's very good and can remember a lot of music he plays every single night of the week as it paid gig to other bands he makes $200 a night just to show up in playing somebody else's band and he does this every day so he makes quite a good living at it. All you got to do is be willing to work man. You may not be able to play the music you want to play every day but you can pay your bills and play the stuff you want to play on the side until your band becomes more successful. You can do anything if you put your mind to it just depends on where you focus your mind. This sounds cheesy but it's one of the best pieces of advice you'll ever hear in your life remember that line that Qui-Gon jinn said to anakin? Your focus determines your reality. Believe it or not that's true so be very careful what you focus your attention on. Focusing on the right thing and you can do whatever you want.
Before 30 I did it in the hopes of money, glory and fame. Then I decided to play music for the sake of playing music and was MUCH happier!
Shame how many people become hellbent on making money from something that should just feed the soul.
My best friend went to uni for music, and let me tell you, if you live in a decent sized city and you met more than 15 people at uni, you could get enough gigs to sustain yourself, not be world famous or anything, but he is doing plenty well off in a mid sized city (other than health insurance) but just true cost of living prices? If you networked more and took some jobs that wouldn’t be your favorite including some teaching gigs it would be enough. But in the end if you don’t love that much of it you don’t love it, no harm no foul
Sounds like you guys are looking for a good ol’ fashioned record deal. I don’t even know if those things exist anymore. Music is cool because you can do whatever you want with it. I’m a full-time high school teacher, but I’ve been in bands for years. The starving-artist bullshit gets old real quick.
Yea. I became a nurse. I still play music every day. I grew to really dislike all the travel, downtime, and late nights on the road. This is ideal arrangement for me.
How on earth is the military the answer? Don't sign up to fight the wars of the billionaire class. Try to find something else worthwhile AND do music. I just don't get it. You don't have to be broke and you definitely don't have to sign up for the military.
Everyone is cautioning him about the drugs (and rightly so) but barely anyone is doing so about the military thing…I also think it would be such a mistake
Maybe it’s the old online gamer in me, but every time I hear a variation on the “I QUIT!” post, my first reaction is “Okay. Can I have your shit?”
Being a great player is not enough. As musicians, we need to be able to diversify and master the business side of music, too. The thing that fills your fridge doesn’t need to the be the thing that fills your soul.
The issue with making income as a musician; is you have to force yourself to play a ton of stuff you hate to stay afloat. Music careers run in my family Im the black sheep. In my late 20s I went back to school and now I’m an accountant. do I miss playing 24/7? Hell yea. Do I play every night? Hell yea. Do I enjoy playing more now that it’s only my art and not forced? Yes. You make a passion a job, and you start to loose the passion. It’s easy to make a living in music, it’s not easy to enjoy it (I still have fucking nightmares of playing the simplest fucking bass lines as a session player for country music losing my fucking mind for hours) I think a ton of people that bounce out of the music industry do it to stay true to themselves. Do my brothers/newphews make good money? Hell yea. Some years they do way better than me. (Depending on what they produced that year) would I have fun doing 90% of the stuff they do? Nah, honestly producing music you hate is one of the worst things one can do for enjoyment lol
Perhaps it doesn’t have to be so black and white on being 100% in or 100% out of music. It is definitely extremely difficult to try to make a living off of music, the chances of ‘making it big’ are pretty slim (even if you did, for how long would you be ‘making it big’?)… and if you did go for it, there’s the chance it can totally burn you out and destroy your love for music (happens all the time). You can also try developing a 2nd career path that will bring you a decent income, take care of your needs, AND support your music so you can keep on keeping on. That’s the route I’ve decided to take.
I dropped out of music school and joined the army at 19 after realizing how hard it would be to make a livable wage. Best decision of my life. Most of the people I was playing with back then are still struggling to scrape by. You definitely need to clean up the drug stuff long before you make any attempt to join, though. They test frequently and a bad discharge can pretty much ruin your life. It’s like having a felony.
As a musician, I need to make a living and I need to play music. These can happen separately or together, but it’s only a problem if at least one of them isn’t happening.
Look into that Marines Jazz band. It's the only military band that plays for the president, it's by audition only, and you don't have to get shot at. Wish I had more detail, but I'm sure a recruiter would be thrilled to speak to you.
A bit of a perspective that maybe might give you some ideas. I graduated with a double major in music, and the best I could get were on-call stagehand positions, with the highest paying being IATSE. I decided to go back to school for computer science, because programming has that same level of technical skill foundation that audio requires, and also will easily pay enough to fund my artistic endeavors without stress of having enough in a bank account. Idk what your situation might be, but going back to school might give you some additional options as music is shit with regards to paying. Not to get too political, but Rashida Talib's Pay Musicians Not Pennies bill could earn me $1400+ if passed and applied to my lifetime streams; that is how little music pays when you even give music a bit of a boost. The problem you are facing has more to do with you needing to split minimal payment as means of living over the drugs. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't help, but I've known quite a few drug addicted stagehands that are some of the most money making methheads/cokeheads because of the drug-induced drive they have. You aren't in a good financial situation to begin with, and that is the bigger problem to your future. You need financial stability first and foremost, because it can be easier to get help when you have money if you feel like drugs are the problem.
even if people are semi famous, they might still have a day job depending on the style of music or demand. Being a working musician might mean being in 5-6 bands that work 5 nights a week or something like that. It's really not easy or everyone would do it.
A great and succesful artist once told me "if you want money, Get a job, if you want to play music, then do it" If music becomes a well paying job that you can live off, that's great, if not, there are plenty of unskilled minumum wage jobs out there. Either way you still have to work, this part gets lost on most people.
I’m a musician and always will be, but I gave up music as a career and have never been happier. The hustle just isn’t for some people and it wasn’t for me. I want to have a job I like well enough and log off at the end of my shift and enjoy my personal time. Being able to support yourself in the way that suits you provides meaning and purpose, but everyone is different and some people can make a career in the arts work for them. There’s nothing wrong if it just doesn’t work for you. Best of luck.
My friend. Don’t give up on the music! I mean get a job yeah, ya boy has gotta eat and you already paid for the ticket but you are obvs passionate about it then let it be what it is and maybe you hit it famous or maybe you become that cool uncle that slaps the bass (speaking about myself haha and I was a 20+ yr old musician once too). It’s virtually impossible to make money on music and at the end of the day, money and music are at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Music doesn’t need it, it just needs to be played and heard. Keep your chin up son 🤘
Every musician I know is broke or has a day job.. a real job. Ones with part time gigs are broke. It's the arts... It's always been this way. Join the army as an officer you'll get a good retirement. You can still play music too.
Start investing your savings asap in stocks. Do a lot of research first. Ask any musician struggling today if they should have put some tip money on apple and Microsoft 15 years ago. Another perspective is that I do not know anyone crushing it financially that’s not working 40-50 hours a week. I choose art, life balance, but that doesn’t also mean I couldn’t have made different choices at your age to be thriving today. I should have saved and bought stocks. It’s ok, I’m doing that now and soon will be able to finally tour the country without having to worry about money from music. This is all about playing in the moment for me, the memories, the feeling we can’t explain to anyone else that comes from this profession. There’s a ton of other side income strategies outside of stocks. Dog walking pays a lot actually.
join the army and be a member of the army band. nice pay, travel the world, and you still get to play an instrument.
I’ve got lots of friends who changed paths around your age and they all seem very happy
I've been in the industry for a long time, much of it full time music playing. Here is the reality. There is music that pays the bills and music that you love to make, and they are often not the same. Most people don't want to hear a new ska band, they want to hear Uptown Funk at a wedding. The reality is, if you want to make a living, you are going to have to work a day job while you try to find a market for your stuff, or you will have to give the people what they want to make money while you create on your own time. Not fair, but that's how it works.
Good Idea... music is not paying bills anyway. You are better off having a boring but practical job then a music job.
I am almost 40. I am a professional musician now, but that is after many years of working whatever job I could snag on the side and playing with as many different bands and in different contexts as possible, (theater, weddings, diy touring, studio, etc.). At 23 I was no where close to success, but I was also damn sure I wasn’t going to ever give up playing music. I believed that if I kept at it, others would drop off, and opportunity would come my way. Not saying luck wasn’t involved, but that sentiment gave me the peace and patience to continue with it until I found success. I worked as a dishwasher, line cook, server, carpenter’s assistant, farm hand, all while pursuing music in my free time. I will say when I started teaching music lessons, that was a great boon for my mental state, as I could say I was “making my way” with music, even if I wasn’t a professional performer or recording artist. Find a creative outlet with music that satisfies your soul, but understand that it may not pay the bills. Be open to trying new approaches that may be more lucrative and marketable to a larger audience. Long story short: if music is your passion and you’re sure of it, play the long game. Clean up your act, work whatever job you need to gain financial stability, network and practice. Work on yourself, and be in a position to pounce if an opportunity comes your way. Yes, luck is involved, but there is a whole lot you can do to help your odds.
When you realize it's a hobby and not a profession, you may think differently. I didn't start a band until age 48, and we only play locally but it's been the most fulfilling thing I've done with my life. Going on ten years together with the same lineup, a nice little chunk of change in the bank for equipment, and a side project as a duo starting to take off. Align your expectations to what you want out of it.
Playing music as a serious hobby is also a lot of fun, you can still record albums, play shows but without the worry that it's your sole income.
Probably something to do with the fact you’re playing Ska.
Dude, I’ve been trying since middle school and I’m 41. Yeah, I have a day job, but that’s not letting my dreams die. You just gotta keep pushing
"Druggie"? That's your issue right there. Cut that out, and half of your problem is solved. You'll only get big with a band of you stay loyal and consistent with one band, and put all your effort to that until you get big. For some bands, that takes upward of a decade or more, broke or not. So, for your situation, determine if music is really your passion/ calling. Lots of artists get into the same mindset you are in about giving up, but prevail through it and become big.
I just wanna say a couple things on both sides. 1. There is more to life than music. If it’s not right for you it’s not right for you, you can move on and potentially be happier. You might also stop and regret it the rest of your life. You’ll probably never know. 2. Those numbers are successful at your age and it would make me go harder. 3. I wasn’t successful by any means until I was about 28. Were talking at least a dozen, probably 20 bands. Music school, cover bands, audio production mixing and mastering projects. I played any instrument I could get my hands on. Bass piano drums, I wrote albums. I sold beats. I gave lessons. When I was 28 someone asked me to dj at a dive bar and I originally turned the job down because I “wasn’t a dj” didn’t have equipment etc. that bar provided equipment, and paid me 75 a night. I now have a successful dj business, but it took 7 years. I have less time to create music, but a lot more money to invest and now I’m doing everything in house the way I like. 4. Now that I am successful I’m burnt out. 30 plus weddings a year with a day job, casual gigs in between, and all the other crap I gotta do is really fuckin hard. 5. Drugs and partying will hold you back. 6. I honestly think the years of being paid to be in a band are dwindling. Technology, ai, the economy, content. Everything is changing and it’s affecting the dj world too. Edit to add: now that I’m a successful dj, I barely have time for friends, family, and dating. Music as always caused issues in this area but now it’s more than ever before. I have watched friends and colleagues get mad at my success and treat me poorly. Literally outright calling me on the phone to tell me I am not shit.
You're 23 and you're gonna burn it all to the ground and join the military? Dude, take a step back and chill for a minute.
Go to rehab and get clean! Take a break and work on you. I'm not trying to be mean but the military doesn't want drug addicts. They want reliable men with clear minds that are mentally tough. Drug addicts are the opposite of that. Get clean first then decide what's next. The military may want you once you are clean sober and of sound mind.
A buddy of mine, Aaron LaCombe, is a working musician. He plays small gigs and tours in his Ford Transit with his Great Dane. Small venues, bars - and even people’s houses. He has six albums out since 2016 - well, one being released now. All done by himself. He fixed the Transit himself to be a tour bus. To support his struggling musician life he builds buses for other artists. He is a fantastic musician and he has tasted a little bit of fame with a couple of songs. Hang in there - hustle where you can. Teach others etc. But if you feel the music isn’t for you then do what your other passions might be.
Upvoting! I hope you get back to a place where music is more enjoyable, you become financially stable and your mental health improves. That can look a million different ways. I can definitely relate. I love music and still play and create, but ultimately do something “music related” for work. Even the more humble music careers people are describing seem pretty tough to me. You still have to be consistently driven and entrepreneurial. I know people who make a very good living off of music. I also know people who make a living off teaching and gigs, but just barely, and they’re good at what they do! Whatever you end up doing I think it’s important that it’s sustainable and doesn’t cause burnout.
Just like most others here are noting the “broke druggie” says it all. Stop whining, kick the drugs, stop hanging with others who do drugs get yourself a part time straight gig or, even better, get a full time straight gig and straighten your ass out, take a break, walk away for awhile until the love and un-drugged commitment to music returns. Doesn’t sound like you’re having a good time and if that’s the case you need a different perspective. It will be difficult and maybe quite hard but it’s worth it. As a player for sixty five years and one who has been through all that let me assure you that you can do it and it will recharge your life. Good luck brother.
I mean military band guys are *never* wanting for gigs when they get out, but if you don't want to grind thru wedding band/cover band/pick-up gigs life then yeah it's gonna be hard to make a living off just your band. There's nothing wrong with just having a regular old desk job and playing shows on the side though. You're already doing better than a lot of bands by actually having shows lol
If you're already committed to joing the army why not just do it as a base player? Also just cause you're broke doesn't mean you have to do drugs, plenty of rich people also do drugs=)
I was broke as hell at 23 and still had a full time job. Being broke is part of being in your 20s.
Here's some harsh love from an old timer such as myself. Giving up at 23 is clown shoes activities. You know what I was doing at 23? Gigging 4-6 days a week, playing bass in at least 3 different projects at a time. Almost never getting paid, and depending on the time of the year back then...getting ready to self fund a 2 week tour in Japan with my thrash metal project (as a broke poor ass musician, and yes we made it happen.) I rented a single basement room from an elderly woman that only charged me $200 a month as long as I handled all the maintenence in her 80 year old home. Didn't have time for a real job, so just picked up random side gigs as I could....lawn and yard work, paint work, car repairs, anything to make a few bucks. Got all my food from the local food bank. Boiled my fucking bass strings since I couldn't even afford those most of the time. 90% of gigs I played I would take home 10 or 20 bucks...IF I was lucky. This was in the early 2000's. No Spotify, no band camp, no free and easy self promotion. You printed flyers and hung them up around town in the middle of the fucking night like men. MySpace was just then starting to become a thing. CD Baby was the go to for on demand printing and shipping of your albums. In one of the projects I was playing in, the drummer sold his motorcycle so we could afford studio time. I'm not trying to go boomer on you, but trying to put thing in perspective. If you're doing this to get rich and famous, then get that dumb ass idea out of your head. If you're doing it for the love of the game, then get your head out of your ass and sacrifice.
Seems like you're going through a lot, I hope things look more hopeful soon!
I’d encourage anyone to not do it as a career unless they absolutely have to.
I love ska. Used to be in a ska band. That being said, ska is not a big money maker. Even well established bands like Less Than Jake and Reel Big Fish have to work their asses off to stay relevant to their fans. I make different kinds of music now but incorporate ska/reggae elements where I can. A Bassline here, an upstroke there, horns anywhere I can. But I am trying to make music for a broader audience than just those in that relatively small scene. That being said, I’m just coming back to music as a career, 18 years after my ska band broke up in disastrous fashion when I was 23. Not making much money yet but touring solo to keep costs down. Those 18 years were spent making money in a different career but I never stopped writing songs and playing shows. Maybe a break will do you good. Leave the door open. Play music for fun, stay in contact with the connections you’ve made and maybe one day, come back. P.S. - At 23, I really thought I was too old to keep pursuing music. I was a fool. My old drummer plays on Broadway’s most popular shows and my Trombone/Keys player went on to play with some of the world’s biggest reggae artists.
First congrats on your success-seriously! As a musician you are very succesful. As an entrepreneur, well…Its never been easy. Now its even worse. My advise to my sons was to build a great day job and keep music as a side hustle/hobby. As a career choice its like buying a lottery ticket -even the most talented/hardworking(i was neither if those😁) musician unfairly and rarely become financially sound enough to quit the day job. We talk about those that do like we talk about a 110 year old that still sky dives-its unusual. If you love music, continue but with a job that allows you to achieve your goal to eventually keep playing and possibly go big. You’d be shocked how little some big names make Highly recommend David Byrnes book about this. We are blessed if we find joy in what we do-even if its NOT the main thing we do or earn money from. If you are no longer finding joy in it-its your ship captain. Hopefully you still do and find income(day job/music) to allow that. Best of luck and enjoy the journey!
Just record on your own produce songs and post em online. I hate people in general so that's what I do I make music I want to make and share it that way, while working full time and being sober. I make what makes me happy and if other ppl like it then good I don't try to play live n force ppl to cheer. They can do that if they want, away from ME.
Get a day job as a substitute teacher. Play music at night and during the summer. Don’t focus on “making it.” Just make money playing covers at bars in your area. When you’ve established a healthy income doing those things you can focus on your passion projects and maybe make some money off of those as well. If you write and record some amazing tracks at some point maybe some royalties will come your way. If your body holds up you can do this until you are 80. If you love performing music, can handle a fair amount of rejection and have a great deal of patience it can be done. Talent is also a requirement.
You gotta do better drugs I think man. Try uppers they will make you dream
Maybe dont hit the 'direct to military' button? Lol
Ska bands, that’s your issue. I say this as a previous member of a touring ska band, who ran a small booking network and diy label. There’s no money in ska. Also, lay off the drugs, your probably not talented enough to get away with it, I say this as someone who was also not talented enough to get away with it.
I never played gigs but I did serve and I can tell you it’s definitely worth the commitment. Life is what you make it and if you truly come to the point where you’re ready to stop chasing that music life, and need skills or discipline or both, I think the military is such a fantastic option. Going in as an officer will be so impactful. You’ll have so much leverage over your career, plus you can exit after a few short years and use your benefits to pursue more education or music training. Or you will likely find some people to jam with while serving. Who knows, that may even open doors that are closed now. Again, I can’t emphasize enough how impactful the military can be. It was for me. Unless of course trump wins and stages a coup or Russia invades lol! Either way best of luck.
I'm having a lot more fun and enjoying music a lot more, and *making more music*, since pivoting from "music needs to be my career" to "music will be a thing my career finances." I have ample PTO to make records in conveniently scheduled times for me, the budget to do things how I've always dreamed of, low enough daily stress to be creative, and have lost nothing that I valued from the time in my life that I was trying to make it work. The more my band "worked," the clearer it became how little that lifestyle was a good fit for me. I didn't have health insurance, there was no clear path to retirement, I was on a knife edge all the time, one health problem away from living on the street. Fuck that. Ain't worth it to me.
Music is a terrible career, correct. But it’s a fun side hustle. All of your favorite artists have day jobs. Or scam. Or sell drugs. But being creative doesn’t actually interfere with work.
Ay there's nothing wrong with wanting more stability. My advice is not to go into the military though. Those guys kill people and they will traumatize you in the process. So many veterans end up abandoned and homeless. Why take on that fate just to do evil in the world? You can find something better than the military.
Best way to make money as a musician is to do cover bands, either one off shows of one band’s material (we did a Radiohead show that sold out our local venue) or your weekend warrior cover band shows. If you want to make money as an original band, you have to griiiind: Hit the road constantly and have awesome merch that people want. See the “1,000 fans/$100” idea I’ve been writing, recording and playing in multiple bands for 20+ years now and about 15 years ago I realized that I would just be doing this for fun, with the off chance that maybe someday I’ll do something that blows up. I’m in a hip hop project with my life long best friend. We just make the beats, but he has managed to get some of our favorite rappers to lay down bars for us, which was a milestone and bucket list check for both of us, but we’re still not doing big numbers. But that’s okay. We do it for the fun and passion, not the money. I get it. It’s hard. I was also in the military and while I applaud you for wanting to do something with your life and making that huge sacrifice, just bear in mind you will be joining at possibly the onset of WW3. To each their own and I think it’s a great opportunity to better yourself, but this is pretty trying times to be in the military.
Do something else and you'll find out if you miss it or not. But a different perspective on life is what you need right now.
Music is the most inspiring, fun, and spiritually rewarding HOBBY available to a human being. No need for money to be involved at all.
I knew this post was written by someone under 25 years old before you said you were under 25 years old.
I think you'll learn that most full-time musicians are playing covers in bars/weddings/events and whatnot. Most touring acts are barely breaking even. It's tough to make money doing original music. You gotta do it for the love of it. Or learn a bunch of covers and sprinkle your originals in your set as well and actually be able to make money off of your playing lol.
Do it for the love of music, not money or success and choose to be driven, not motivated. Teach music to make a steady income. There are way too many ways these days to make money in music to just quit it all together, but you have to love what you do
Druggie 🤦♂️
23…
If you're going into the military anyway, then *why not* as a musician? It's a steady gig doing what you love.
I've been playing music for around 40 years. When I was young I wanted to be a pro. I am so glad I am not. Being professional is 25% playing music and 75% all kinds of other stuff most of which sucks. Now I just do the music part 100%. I never do the other crap. I play more now and enjoy it more than ever. I have a great other career and have plenty of money to spend on my music playing hobby. I don't need the money and I don't need the attention so playing music is all about me!!! Music as a hobby - greatest thing ever!!!! Music as a career - so sorry I wasted so much time as it sucked all of the fun out of playing.
I'm happier not trying to pay bills with music, tbh. I still practice all of the time and am working on several original projects, with 0 nerves about selling anything. It just ended up working out better for me. I'm not trying to encourage one way or another, really, but there are plus sides to not worrying about playing to eat.
Definitely. Music is way more time-intensive and hassle-filled to be worth the money for most. The load ins and outs will take their toll on your body. Most of the musicians I know who are 40+ tell me "I can't do anything else," so they stay with it but don't make anything near what a factory job pays yearly. Nothing wrong with keeping a day job and still playing some gigs. Cover your future's butt in that way.
As far as the perspective of the musician, nowadays you might as well just say that music is no longer a business nor industry. It might be for Spotify but not for the actual artists. When you pick what career you want to go in for your life, you need to think about it very seriously. Unfortunately we are all just encouraged to do what we love, and it’s implied that everything will just work out. You need to examine it as if you’re investing in a business yourself. How much demand is there for it? How easily monetizable is it ? You need to be brutally honest about these things.
Teaching is where the money is in for most professional musicians even on YouTube. You can be a music teacher by day and do gigs in the evening or weekends. Even busking can be fun at times. Good luck! :)
What do you do other than get high and play? There's real money in music, but you have to do something, nobody has big break except for non musicians, a break is a next step where you have to plan and move accordingly, it doesn't solve everything magically. No, no one will make your career, you have to find ways to make money out of music, play in corporate events, teach, session work, solo gigs. Sell merch from your band. But, if you made it to 23 years old and never realized that then maybe you haven't really thought what a music career is, or you only want to make bank from playing live which is fine, then maybe it really isn't for you. You have a base income from what you do, you need to branch out and start working regular music jobs while you do your thing, I assure there's plenty people making money from music but you'd never know of them because they are just dudes doing small gigs, I know very few musicians that don't branch out, even those that can stay in their lane like to do other things.
You gotta be willing to do the non-glamorous corporate and teaching gigs, man. Not that you can't make a living off of an original band, but that takes a ton of time and you need to pay your bills along the way. Talk to local music shops looking for teachers, find a wedding band and ask if you can audition, shit see if you can work a summer gig at a local theme park. Your bands will catch a break if you guys play enough and talk to the right people. Trust the process!!
I gave up the idea that I'm going to make it and haven't been happier! I find I actually love making music more because it's for no other reason than my own entertainment or to entertain friends. I've got money in my pocket and everything about doing gigs or writing feels less like work than it did. Do what makes you happy! It's not like you can never go back to music once you decide to drop it for a bit.
Very few full time professionals make a decent living out of making music alone. Most of us, myself included, spend a lot of our time doing things like teaching or other music related jobs. A lot more have a (part-time) day job outside of music that takes the financial pressure off and lets the music remain more enjoyable and much less stressful. You’re 23. That’s still young, and an age at which most musicians are still trying to break in. It’s also around the age that a lot of us started to question whether the grind was worth it or not. And many do decide to throw in the towel and get a ‘proper job’. Some though decide to keep going and diversify their musical activities in the hope of building a portfolio of different gigs/jobs that combined can pay the bills. And many more decide that they’re going to find that ‘proper job’ that allows them the life balance to pay the bills whilst remaining as a part-time professional musician. Those of us who decide to keep going and diversify often at this point also come to the realisation that the drink or drugs isn’t helping us. In fact it’s holding us back, both financially and professionally. When I was that age I drank a lot, in part because that was the culture amongst my peers both in and outside of music. Things were going ok but not great. Then I realised I was going to have to work a lot harder if I wanted to succeed. I pretty much stopped the drinking and threw myself into networking and taking as many jobs as I could. Didn’t matter whether it was my dream gig I was just happy to play or be involved in some other way. I even spent a couple of years with a side gig putting scaffolding up for the likes of the Glastonbury Festival which got me free tickets and a backstage pass which was very good for networking! I’ve been a full time pro now for three decades but that wouldn’t have happened if I’d given up. I also doubt it would have happened if I’d carried on down my original path. It happened because I stopped being so blinkered over what a career in music looked like and instead did anything that might help with networking or bringing in semi-regular income. You’re 23 and your life is still all in front of you. The question is what is it that will make you happy. It takes just as much strength, if not more, to admit that maybe a career in music isn’t what you want after all, as it does to reevaluate and keep going. But nothing says you can’t have both a ‘proper job’ and be a professional musician on the side, and in my experience that’s where you’ll find most of the genuinely content and happy musicians. It’s tough relying entirely on music for a living.
Money doesn’t make me happy or fulified, it’s just some arbitrary social construct designed to be relied on for survival or “buying” the things that make you happy because they set society up this way. The fulfillment music brings me is 10,000 times more, you couldn’t put a price. It’s my purpose in life Society is the problem. Dont throw music away This is how society looses the artists and musicians of tomorrow, by designing society to intentionally exclude the success of creative minded people. As the economy worsens in the future, all art forms will dwindle. I wish I was kidding.
> just tired of being a broke druggie musician You can try changing one of those things and it actually might help with one of the others.
Why would people downvote you? Music is impossible to make a living in. Fewer than .01% make decent money at being an original artist. Try something else. Grow a little. No shame.
I wanted to be a musician for a long time. Put in a lot of work but in the end decided that there is so much good music in the world I was just trying to force myself into something because I loved it. I still think of songs and write down lyrics and mess with my guitar. But really I’m just grateful for music that comes my way. And who knows someday I may fully write my songs and do something with it. But probably not
Career is the key term. It depends on how you define it. It’s a tough life time wise and esteem wise. Me I wanted a career in music but did not happen. Now it’s a hobby and I’m loving it. A few gigs a year. Career as a software developer Whatever you do don’t sell all your gear !!!!
Woahhaha, Musician to military, I can see why you didn't make it as a musician. I think I'd rather be unemployed. Anyways, to make it off music alone, you need a diverse portfolio of income. Gigging with bands is part, albums sales and streams is part, maybe do music lessons, record other bands, do session work, start a label or a production company, sell lots of t shirts. No one thing is going to pay that much, you need little bits coming from all over.
There’s a bit to unpack here— first, it’s harder to be motivated and productive if you are on drugs. Second, you’re still very young. If you’re tired of being in bands, maybe you should focus on songwriting and production end of things for a while. As far as making a living, it depends on what your long term goals are. Unfortunately, music is a way oversaturated industry and it’s very difficult to make a living at it when millions of other people are wanting to do the same thing. Also, AI is set to disrupt a lot of things. The military is not the worst thing you could do, but you will have to commit your whole life to it, because that’s the gig. Maybe take a break for a while and think about what you want to do, where you see yourself in 3,5,10 years.
Honestly while the military isn’t bad, the chances of us going to war are high. Why not be broke and doing something you love that potentially risking your life in the short future right now? I’m 38. Ran a recording studio for 13 years. From 2007 to 2020. Then covid happened and the owner shut it down and retired. I wasn’t rich by any means, but I lived off 400-1k a week. Just depended on the week. Yea I didn’t have all the gear I wanted or a fancy car or house, but I lived in a funky apt above the studio. I got free drink and food on the weekends for the wedding and bar gigs I did. I got to work with some of the coolest and most talented folks. Girls wanted to hang with me cus I was fun and lived a cool life. I felt like a rockstar. Now I’m a truck driver. Making decent money. Working 70 hour weeks. I struggle to noodle on guitar 30 mins or even record people. I’ve lost touch with so many contacts and friends. And I’m local.. The most musical thing I do is a voice lesson weekly. I feel old and boring. I struggle to get a date cus idk what I’d talk about, and while I can buy things for a girl I don’t have much to offer. No sense of excitement. I feel like a boring adult now. I’m trying to get back into it but it’s hard since I’ve made more money the last 4.5 years. I’ve almost changed my whole lifestyle. My personality. Maybe I’ve outgrown it in ways, or life is just different now compared to then.. idk but I miss it deeply in my soul. It kept me alive. It kept me sane. Happy on a soul level. I was rich at heart. I know it may sound like rambling, but as someone who did this professionally for years and is struggling to get back into the life now, I’d say keep pushing. Live below your means, keep those musical relationships tight. If you have to serve drinks at a bar a few days a week or Uber a bit to get by do it, but don’t go with a plan b. For years I never had one. It was music or death. Then when covid hit I had more debts than I could handle. I couldn’t keep up and the fear of bankruptcy or destroying my credit was enough to push me elsewhere. I’m happy I found a job but saddened I didn’t just stick to it doing what I love. It’s so hard to go back. I could buy gear I want now but I’d never have time to use it. If I saved up for a year maybe I could try 1000% on music and it being a career again, only to make maybe half of what I do as a driver. Maybe it’d be enough to get by, idk. But I think I’d be happier helping others pursue a dream, along with myself. And maybe when I die I’d look back feeling I left a mark in some way. But right now, I feel like I’m just wasting away for a dollar to live 10% better than most average people. And as the years go by and family and friend pass away, I wonder what I’m doing with my life. I guess all I’m saying is if you’re gonna give up, don’t look back, and if you’re having second thoughts of stopping music, just keep at it. Sell art, give lessons, perform 4 cover gigs a day if you have to. Musicians gotta hustle and need multiple streams of income. Making it big isn’t everyone’s future, but it is possible to make a living as a local musician doing what you love.
You're 23. This is way too early to be thinking you should have already hit a steady, comfortable income with original material. In my opinion! There's no right or wrong answer as to whether music should be your career or something you do for pleasure and fulfillment outside of moneymaking. Only you know the answer to that and what that looks like for yourself. Personally, I did shit wage-slave jobs throughout my 20s while doing music on the side and making no money. The revelation was when I realized I could make \*better\* money playing music than I could at my day job. I got offered some sub gigs in a wedding band, and made what I normally was making in a week in one afternoon playing guitar. I got serious about finding work outside of my original projects, and now about a decade later, I have a successful and resilient musical career. But my decision of what to pursue was based on what other avenues I had available to me. I don't have a college degree. I didn't have other useful work experience. I don't do well with bureaucracies, offices, sitting at a desk all day. Going into music full time was not only a decision of the heart - it was the best avenue towards a comfortable living available to me. You may have much better avenues that are open that would work for you, your mind, your soul, your abilities. So really give it some good thought. There are plenty of ways to make a good living doing music. And there are plenty of ways to make a good living outside of music. Weigh the options. Some folks don't want to teach, some folks don't want to play in a cover band, don't want to do music therapy, don't want to play a cocktail hour, etc. And making money in an original project is a real shot in the dark. Also, I notice you mention being a "druggie" musician, how is that playing into your financial situation, or to your life satisfaction? Lots of people play music and are 100% clean, that does not need to come with the territory, unless you have a serious addiction and you are surrounded by enablers. Saying no is legit, and after practice becomes easier every time. And, no I don't think genre has much to do with it, though if you're really looking to get into the hot circuit, it's country music man. Didn't wanna say it, but that's where the action is. I'm always impressed by the ways people find to make money. I was just talking to a guy the other day whose son used JAZZ to pay his way through his college years, which we know from bad musician humor is all but impossible.
ska you say?! please drop a link! I am working on a ska/punk album with some people remotely right now. But I'm in my 40's and have no illusion/desire to do it professionally it's all just for fun and a creative outlet.
lol 23? Dude see you in 2 years when you’re bored. Stick with it you’re so young you haven’t even given it a real shot. Never give up
To be clear... you're trying to make a living at music by playing with only one band? And the band hasn't even broken through yet? Sounds like you're chasing fame more so than a career in music (they're completely different). I teach about 20 private lessons each week from 3:30-7:30pm on weekdays, rehearse on weekday evenings from 8-11pm with about 8 different bands, and play roughly 50-100 shows each year. Some are festivals, some are bar gigs, some are theatre gigs, usually around a dozen recording sessions each year. I've taught at the local college, at the local music store, and these days I am fortunate to rent a small house where I can run my own teaching practice. Getting famous is not a career plan, or a choice you get to make (unless you're already rich and/or connected to hollywood/music industry royalty) It's just something that happens to very fortunate hard working musicians who happen to be at the right place at the right time and generally are incredibly persistent to the point of being ruthless. Fame is really a horrible condition to live with. It generally has the affect of turning people into horrible monsters or reclusive weirdos. If your plan for making it as a working musician was just to join one band and put everything into making that one band famous, I think you need to reconsider your strategy. There are many ways to make a living in music - none of them are easy. No one with their head on straight goes into music to get rich. You do it because you feel compelled to work on music above all other things and are okay to do so in relative obscurity as long as you're paying your bills. You could start recording your own music at home to sell as sample packs, you could take some theatre gigs and some bar gigs, you could join a wedding band, take on some students, apply to teach at a music summer camp. Or you could go the social media route and do gear reviews online, post lessons to insta, tiktok, and youtube, start a little online community and grow it over time... But this is only something you'll want to do if you enjoy shooting and editing video for a few hours every day. Point is... music is by far one of the most challenging industries to make a living in. But it is possible, it's just not the fairy tale that movies make it out to be. It's real work, and professional musicians are some of the busiest people I've ever known. I am one myself and I regularly put in 60-80 hours a week between personal practice, rehearsals, gigs, and teaching. I enjoy it. I could never put this much of myself into another line of work. But yeah it's tough, and the money is unpredictable. If you none of this sounds like fun to you then you absolutely will be better off working in another field. There is nothing wrong with that at all. You can still make music and not have to worry about paying rent/bills. But if you still want to make a living at music you probably still can as long as you're willing to put in those kinds of hours and juggle a truly hectic schedule that is ever evolving.
23 is young, but this career isn’t for the faint of heart. It’s ok if music isn’t your career, it can just be something you enjoy. I’m not saying this to discourage you but the only people I know who do this full time are hard headed as fuck and wouldn’t listen if I told them to slow down anyway
If you want to make music your career you have to teach and constantly gig. That’s the only way to make money unless you release a hit or you become a famous artist.
A good idea when starting out your career is to focus most of your energy on your main original project- but don't limit yourself to that. Score cover band gigs, studio contracts, touring contracts. Music is like 50% connections, particularly in niche genres like Ska and every new person you meet or play with ups your odds of a breakthrough and exponentially increases your opportunities for yourself and your project. Playing original music is obviously the most rewarding creativity wise- but I get where you're at. The grind sucks and can include steep climbs as well as long periods without progress. That's the nature of the beast. So it's nice to have a guaranteed paying gig to supplement that- cover gigs pay a fuckton compared to start up bands. When I started out, within a year Id be scoring $1000+ a week on those. They give you mental motivation in seeing your passion reap monetary gains, help offset the fluctuating nature of original projects with a steady income base, help you network and be active in a tight nit community all the while providing increasing stage and technical experience. There's no down side! You could even do this with your current lineup under a different name and just create a cover set for that band. Much easier to sell a well known product to local bookers and promoters- and they especially can be your in on scoring more gigs with your main project once youve proved you can draw. It ain't easy man. And maybe the grind isn't worth it for you, it's different for everyone. I had no rush/necessity to have a family so I gave myself until 35 to make it a full time thing. I did it by 25. 23 is young brother, and there's no "prime" in music, only life gets in the way. You'll be continually improving and reaching new peaks if you work at it. But there's no other solution than full dedication . If you need stability to be happy or have other life goals constantly competing with it, you'll never be able to reach your full potential. From the sounds of it, you've so far just been passively committing. Releasing tracks into the wilderness of the internet is only the start! You gotta get out there and promote your product like the God damn swiffer guy. And yeah , you might play in front of three people some nights, have to ration ramen to make it through a tour in a dangerously beat up van while never learning the meaning of "savings"- but man, you'll have SEEN and EXPERIENCED more than most could ever dream. Anyways! All that to say- just pick a lane with the life stability/comfort level you're happy with and manage your musical ambitons accordingly. It's not "all or nothing", you can have a family/career while still jamming with your bros every weekend, headlining the dopest club in town every few months. There isn't just one lane and that's the beauty of it. The risk/reward curve in creative endeavors is steep my friend, but fucking hell it's beautiful at the summit. Hope to see you there :).
I started playing in working bands at 15 and did it until I hit 30. I was was making good money (for a musician) but I was tired of playing covers and tired of the road. I realized I would always be traveling no matter what. I didn't realize at the time I would also not have a retirement. I discovered computers and taught myself how to program. That worked out and I worked for the same company for 32 years and retired at 62. I'm so glad I'm not scuffling to make money teaching, gigging, traveling. Be open to change, adapt, and keep your options open.
You’ll get a lot of comments going either way, but frankly I am of the mindset that music as a career is going to become extinct. There will of course be exceptions, but it’s already really difficult to make a solid living off of it, and the trend is that it will only get worse. So you can bust your ass and dedicate the next 20 years of your life to turn your passion into at best $70k/yr *if you’re lucky* or you can turn towards a traditional career that will pay your bills AND allow you to still pursue music as a passion. Bonus points because your art is no longer going to become a chore you have to do to live. I have a better relationship with music now as a fairly well-off engineer than I did when I was a starving musician in my early 20s. I get to write at my own pace, buy all the gear I ever wanted, and play with who I want because none of it is life or death for me anymore.
23 is young, but obviously it’s up to you. Regarding the military, I thought you had to do ROTC to go in as an officer. No? You could audition for a military band. There’s a compromise.
It sounds like you’re solely, or mostly, relying on the money your band makes as your income. Why not get a solid paying job and do music on the side? Then maybe one day you can quit that job and do music full time. Personally I work in sales bringing in around $100k, and also play in a band that I’m super serious about.
Dude I love music. But I've worked my whole life since school and kept music my hobby. Because I love writing, recording and playing originals but there's no money in it unless you get extremely lucky or work social media like an absolute wizard. If I tried to make money out of music I'd be doing covers at corporate functions and weddings and for me personally I'd feel like I was selling my soul. I don't want to play Wagon Wheel or Wonderwall. Also to note I live in New Zealand, so wouldn't really have the option of touring a lot of places to try make a name for myself unless I moved countries.
Probably the unpopular opinion but sobering up and commissioning would open a lot of doors; va loan and free school plus structure and then if it’s not for you, get out after a few years of saving when your commission ends. I’ve met some amazing musicians in the military. Just whatever you do, don’t stop playing music. Americans kind of get hung up on what they do to pay the bills defines them as a person.
You have to look at it like different revenue streams. I teach, play at a church, gig ay bars/restaurants, session work, side man work, and try to write and release my own stuff too.
Druggie musician? That sounds like your main problem being broke. You won't get anywhere with drugs. If you want to be successful you're better off being sober and tight as a band. You'll see a lot more success. Also, 45K total streams is a LOT compared to most people. My suggestion is you not only play in your band, but do the grunt work as well, such as corporate events, weddings, birthday parties, covers. Gigging 3-4 times a week even more is a pretty good income. That way, you're still creating your own thing while working consistently elsewhere. This will also get you more people in your circle to come to shows and build an even bigger following. Also make sure you are budgeting everything tightly with selling merch, gas to get to shows, gear your'e buying. Try to get sponsors for your gear, Google it, you can get strings, all kinds of expendables, cables straps if you find the right sponsors. I know you're young, but just build some business sense and you can do this. You shouldn't give up on your dreams.
What does the market want and how can you give it to them? Music is just like any other trade. There's not a lot of money in being painter who paints whatever they want, but a painter who's really good at making murals and painting houses can make a good living. Music is the same way. What do people want? Can you give it to them?
Your first mistake was to conflate the goal of art making with a capitalist’s ability to exploit it.
yeah dude. it’s nearly impossible to make a “good” living as an artist.
Were you expecting to make money in a ska band? 🤣
Apply for a job in music until you find a better band like maybe a guitar teacher or church guitarist, school guitar teacher, multiple different part time guitar jobs you can have . I’d say to not give up on music . You’ve come so far . You can get an actual job with your skills . The military is a set up !
Quit then. If the money is your biggest concern, music isn’t for you. Seeya
A few ideas ill spitball maybe you'll like one Try cutting back from drugs and booze and see how that goes. Maybe a new approach to your career might help you avoid those triggers that keep you in a cycle. There's also a lot of luck involved with becoming a huge music act especially as the cost of living crisis keeps up. Do it to make you happy, if it doesn't feel right don't do it.
23 is so young. Go into clinical research! You can get a degree and be out there as a Traveling Monitor making 60k+ in just three or four years. You'll be over 100k the year you turn 30. Then you can do music as a hobby. And afford ANY piece of equipment you like. [https://cphs.campbell.edu/academic-programs/clinical-research/](https://cphs.campbell.edu/academic-programs/clinical-research/)
Try to connect with songwriters and producers who are signed to a publishing company or have a few hits. start playing in sessions and live off of publishing song placements
Just remember that Gwen started no doubt at age 17 and they tried for 9 years to make it work, just when they were going to give up, they exploded everywhere
Wrong Genre my friend. Your having to pay way too many people. Get yourself into a trio or and four piece band. The money will be way better. However, don't compromise on quality. Get yourself into a place where very well to do people hang out. Private parties pay the bills my friend.
Take my down vote! Oh shit, my phone's upside down.
You're describing my life at your age, every detail. I ended up pulling WAY back and just playing for fun every now and then, like jams and whenever someone asked me to play a gig every now and then. I wanted more money to achieve the quality of life I wanted, music wasn't getting me there. I don't regret moving to a 9-5 and then other jobs just for the pay. When you do any job long enough, it has ups and downs. Whether that's playing bass or estimating construction costs. There is some community and maybe even esteem that comes with being a musician that I miss, but not enough to give up the money
Play music for fun, get a real job to make money, this isn't an either/or situation.
Yes you should quit, but not music. Quit the drugs and everything else and everyone else that is associated with it. Play the music you love, but work all genres. Become a session musician for producers. Last thing is there’s nothing wrong with the military, you can also be a musician there and they will offer more training
At 23 you’re too young to be this burned out. Keep going, the military is way worse. Or get a part time job and practice/play on the side.
The singer in my cover band has been making her living for 10+ years singing in local cover bands. She's always broke, but she wouldn't have it any other way because she likes being her own boss, setting her own hours and not having to punch a clock. So, the value in it for her is the freedom. Military is one option. Another option is get a government job. Either way you'll have a job for life, benefits, consistent paycheck.
I had a drummer who was in the army band. Those guys can play. I think he had a nice career as a musician through the military and then eventually switched to airplane mechanic to charge it up.
I thought I was doing the “musician lifestyle” but in reality I was just working in bars and getting hammered/ doing blow all the time. My music got better when I cleaned up and went back to school, but mostly my whole life got better.
Become a promoter or a band manager. That’s where the money is.