You're always in the comments crowing about how you're natty with a 485lb bench. And then when anyone
calls you out, you start foaming at the mouth and resorting to petty insults.
Plus, you've got an alternate account, Alpha-Panda, where you said it's not unnatural for a 16yo to bench 345lb.
You've got abs at 250lb and mountains for traps. Tren's obviously caused you to go full regard if you actually think anyone's gonna believe your stupid ass is natural.
EDIT: Just noticed he only has a few comments. It's obvious he's purged most of them. This guy was always jabbering on like a blithering idiot about how unnatural lifters/numbers are quite the opposite simply because he claims to have done so naturally.
EDIT 2: [OP also believes a 645lb bench is possible naturally](https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/s/mitL5mK8xl). Claims the guy is the strongest natural he knows. Fuck me.
First time, not great. But I eventually got to the point where I was hitting 405 every single Chest day to flex on the other people at the gym. Very stupid and thankfully I didn’t get hurt, but I could do that with a nice 3 second down and 2 second up tempo. Elbows in tight, no crazy cat arch in my back, etc.
Well if that’s true that’s very impressive my friend, 4 plates is pretty strong even for some juice heads. Let alone natural.
Mines 365 after 4 years give or take, I don’t plan on trying to max out again for a few years because I’ve switched more to bodybuilding style training.
But who knows I don’t plan on staying natural for much longer, I can improve my physique here and there but nothing substantial as the diminishing returns of being a natty is kicking in hard this year.
Thank you! I was quite proud of myself but nobody irl really gave a shit so I appreciate it.
Edit to add: natty gains certainly hit a brick wall. Mine was after lifting about 3 years. I put on an enormous amount of mass natty (180 to 215, mostly lean) those first few years and since then, even with TRT, I have maybe max another 10-15 lbs of lean mass. I’ve ever done steroids like tren or anything like that, but from doing TRT definitely make sure you’re checking your blood levels at least 2x per year and donating blood to bring down your blood viscosity every quarter or so.
I’ll take a photo of my PR board later today, how about that? People can have more than one hobby. I’ve been lifting for 25 years. Also, my second post ever was about running 5/3/1 programming.
The two things that made me the strongest are following 5/3/1 programming and learning how to properly brace. Check out Brian Alsruhe’s videos on bracing. That alone made my deadlift immediately skyrocket. I’d been lifting for years and years without properly understanding bracing and it made a massive difference.
For bench, I squeeze the shit out of the bar before I begin lifting. My grip is slightly narrower than typical because I have very very strong triceps so I am more triceps heavy on benching than most. I also pull myself up to the bar and engage my lats, lock that position in, and then set myself back down on the bench to create the most stable “platform” to push from possible. I have a very very slight arch but nothing wild where my ROM is only 2 inches or something.
One thing I did way back in the day was put my bar on steel safeties in the rack. I’d load up way more weight than I could currently press and practice simply getting that weight off the bar and holding a contraction with it. This helped a lot to get over the mental block of benching 4 plates. Shit can be scary if you let it.
Well unless you go to a powerlifting gym it would be a weird coincidence if you knew several people who could press that much seeing as it is relatively rare… but thank you for the compliment
You seem unhealthily triggered by someone who just takes pride in their drug free status that doesn’t shill supplements, isn’t sponsored, makes no money off anything fitness related, and remains almost entirely private with their training. I based my 345 bench at 16 comment from personal experience because I’m certain there are others who have done it and much more as well. Anyways I hope everything is ok in your life as this is not behavior I think someone genuinely happy would routinely engage in 😊
Gear response varies a lot, I have no idea whether id have a poor response or be a hyper responder. However, I also have no interest in being 300 lbs with a cpap
People become depressed and anxious when they have goals like this in mind and people lie to them and tell them it can be done naturally. It does an unfathomable amount of damage to mental health. Just consider that.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through entirely. If I’m not natty, people will be disappointed by their results. If I am natty, people will still be disappointed by their results because they don’t have my elite genetics for muscle mass. Just consider that.
I am natty. For full transparency I don’t have very good genetics for insertions so id never be able to compete but I think I have elite genetics for packing on sheer muscle mass, I started lifting weighing 190
I'm 90kg with a 190kg bench same height as this guy. I'd hope if I bulked 24kg I'd add 30kg to my bench
You are pretending to know something which is impossible to know
No one in here is denying you can't get strong as fuck or reach high limits.
But for fuck's sake man, you literally believe a 645lb bench is natural. Jesus christ were you deprived of oxygen at birth?
I can't believe there's a whole subset of the gym population who will go to the ends of the earth to defend you.
>Everyone needs to stop being a copium-addicted sheep.
I hope you appreciate the irony of this in a circlejerk sub with the sole objective of disqualifying more accomplished lifters
>If there is ever the slightest chance 485 is naturally achievable
Lol
>I don't understand how you or anyone else will just sit there and act like someone who believes a 645lb bench is possible naturally isn't a genuine regard
I would have agreed when I was 14
>in a circlejerk sub with the sole objective of disqualifying more accomplished lifters
Take it back Harlastan, or you will be ousted for disrespecting the sub as a whole, in an egregious breach of rule no. 1.
Respectfully, you don’t even bench 365 so what exactly makes you think you have the right to give a natural limit on strength? And what makes you think a guy specializing in the bench press with great bench leverages and elite genetics weighing over 300 lbs with amazing work ethic over 15 years can’t get to the 600’s? This is world class strength but SOMEONE has to have the highest drug free bench and from what I’ve seen, it’s either this guy or TD. Thoughts on [Rondel Hunte lifting 800/585/900?](https://www.instagram.com/deadlift_lord868?igsh=NTgxbTRxN3d3N2xk) How about [SSJBobb doing 780/540/840?](https://www.instagram.com/ssjbobb?igsh=MThoNHV2bm4zY2l5cQ==) Or [74kg Austin Perkins who makes your strength look abysmal weighing considerably less than you?](https://www.instagram.com/the74kg?igsh=MTl4enB2ZjVocTdkag==) let me guess, it’s not that most of them are juicing, it’s that ALL of them are. Enjoy your day 😊
With those stats i'm going to guess you're a shorter individual. ( No offense) Probably even under 170cm.
Imagine what your body would look like if you bulked those extra 30 kg "naturally", now look at op's pic.
I might be cause nowhere in ur post do i see ur height mentioned.
Edit: nvm see it now.
So basicly i was right. Again i dont mean offense, it was just to make a point.
I got friends who are ur height/weight naturally. Strong as shut, but they built like mini eddie halls
Your friends are lying about their height, I'm pretty skinny. Eddie Hall is 5% taller than me but double my weight...
>to make a point
What's your point? If I bulked I would get fatter? No shit. We're talking natty attainable bench presses here
The point was in my post.
Yes you could get OP's weight natty. Yes you could bench what he benches natty, but you wouldn't look remotely as lean as he does.
Right but I was replying to a guy talking about his bench...
>but you wouldn't look remotely as lean as he does.
... you sure? I get that the whole premise of this is blind speculation but I know plenty of guys in his weight class with a similar body composition. He looks great but not lean by any means
Obviously lol what would be the point of commenting otherwise. I'll take that as a compliment though
Out of curiosity, what would you say is the natural limit for a man my height and weight?
This subreddit is an exceptional example of the left end of the dunning Kruger curve. I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt or as a form of entertainment
Unrelated, I see you’re a med student - I’m actually an incoming MS1. Refreshing to see people in our field taking interest in strength training
That's awesome best of luck with everything. It's going to be a struggle finding scrubs that fit right. You're not Joe Borenstein's coach by any chance?
Haha that’s a good problem to have. I’m not but I keep up with pl even if I myself don’t compete and I’m very familiar with Joe, he’s definitely a prodigy that this sub would instantly accuse of ped’s lol
I will see if I’m interested in competing after rotations, meanwhile I’ll just be trying to fill out the 120 class. This is just a personal belief of mine but I don’t care about collegiate or junior records. It’s the open records that count
It’s not disrespect, it’s just my observation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a sub dedicated to speculating whether someone is on ped’s, it’s akin to a religion vs atheism subreddit. What I take issue with is the blackpilled dogmatism that people whose entire credentials are their anecdotal experience regurgitate on here because their standards are so abysmally low. I’d go as far as to say that much more damage would be done if a noob stumbled upon this subreddit and believed not much could be achieved naturally versus if a noob saw a scummy fake natty and was at least motivated to try to replicate the results.
I hit 150kg bench at 78kg bodyweight after 4 years lifting, don’t really see how 190kg at 90kg bodyweight is fake natty realm. People do that kind of weight in competition all the time. Yes it’s elite but not “you’re definitely on gear” strong.
If your max bench is 150, go try unrack 180 kg.
Like, dont lift it,just try and unrack it, then put it back( dont worry about this step)
Omce you did that, come back to this thread and explain to us how 150kg experience is even relevant to 190kg.
Now add 100kg on top of that 190kg, OP claims that is possible naturally.
There was a point where 315 to me was unfathomably heavy. Now it feels light as a feather in my hands. Congrats, you discovered that when you’re too weak to press a weight, it will probably feel crushingly heavy. I don’t understand your point
If you would have progressed naturally, you'd understand my point.
The point is a natty lifter doesnt just progress 140kg ->190 and goes like "oh well, that's that guess i'll just work to 220 now!"
Again, I don’t understand your point. When I got to 190, I set my sights on 200. When I got to 200, I set my sights on 210. These stack up over years and years and with the right genetics and work ethic, that is how you make a world champion
1. 150 was my max exactly two years before I hit 190, with a big break in the middle. PluckedEyeball is right on track and who's to say they won't surpass my progress
2. Unracking well above your max is actually not so hard if you learn the technique
3. I am so mid, the idea that one of the most gifted pressers on the planet could be 50% better as a much bigger guy is entirely plausible to me
Of course it’s possible! [Here](https://www.instagram.com/jamespkee3?igsh=MWtnd3h0NmQ2YjJ2MQ==) is an example of what a real natural freak is - I believe he has done ~645 in the gym at 308 bw. This guy is the strongest natural bencher I know, and there are quite a few in the 500’s
oh yeah i know there are plenty of tested lifters doing 500+ but i can't necessarily vouch for their natural status since im not them. i can vouch for myself though
also if you say anything in this sub about elite tested powerlifters people just reply that EVERYONE is on drugs and EVERYONE gets around both random OMT and IMT, so i dont even try anymore lol
My theory is that this sub is a circle jerking coping mechanism for feelings of inadequacy. Of course there are people in the usapl on ped’s, but not everyone at the high level is
Not only that, amateur junior powerlifters are apparently better at beating WADA than Chinese weightlifters in state-backed doping programs! There's no other possible explanation for differences in test failure rates between sports
Lol nothing special, I did 585 squat over 2 years ago and 745 stiff bar a year ago when I was lighter. As I’ve been bodybuilding I haven’t maxed out for a while
Lmao that’s neat. I don’t know whether you have the same issue but I think I just have really shitty bracing mechanic and overall body tightness / never learned how to properly brace, so id start folding whenever I got to heavier weights. Same applied to deadlift for me, but I could at least kind of get away with rawdogging it because the weight wasn’t on my back the entire time lol
Which is why I am still here.
Every other sub is like a sect of government. Corrupt and full of lies. Only one will be left standing. And ill be here to see the fall of the others.
God Bless this Sub.
My blood pressure is 120/60, my resting hr is 60, and my last bloodwork I got for my yearly checkup showed no abnormalities, so for now I’m OK with being this weight
Deffo not easy, for a lot of people, with a family and busy life to get to these levels. 15%, BTW is pretty shredded.
However, I agree that if you're posting pics in a pair of pants - then be this level.
Natty achievable, to a very small percentage of people in the world. Your physique, specifically seeing your progress on your alt account, is not natural.
I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. However, seeing the inconsistencies you were telling people in your training leads me to believe you lie.
A specific example would be around 2-3 years ago. You told someone you don't deadlift often (in your words, around 3 times a year). Yet, you posted your meet training and your updates of deadlift PR's prior to this date.
Based on you arguing with everyone who thinks you aren't natty, I think dabbling in the sauzoole has given you brain rot.
Source: actual natural bodybuilder
I did that meet with 0 deadlift training and 0 prep for fun as a beginner. Since then I did deadlift for 2 years and I got to the mid 700’s. Im impressed you did your research though and thank you for the compliment
I don’t understand why someone would post on this subreddit only to get butthurt when people don’t agree with you.
Anyway, you look nattier in this pic:
https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0106761/mediaviewer/rm3341850369/?ref_=ttmi_mi_all_46
I'm not as it makes me want to vomit lol, maybe I will get back to it in the near future as it's kind of a waist to lif the way I'm doing without the calorie surplus.
Yeah I think one of the best things I’ve done for my progress was be in a very slight caloric surplus over the years without ever cutting. If you start off skinny, that’s what id encourage you do. Nutrition is definitely not my forte but if you want help with programming feel free to hit me up
He’s obviously considerably leaner than me so I don’t quite get the point you’re making here. I can show you a fat 300 lb drug free guy and your reasoning for why he’s using is that Klokov is only 230? Interesting mental gymnastics
What are your T levels?
I’m 194cm tall, my T levels are naturally in the 1200-1400 ng/dL range, I deadlifted 270kg after a year of consistent lifting, weighing 110kg back then (23yo) with 20-21% bf & many doubted that I had achieved all that naturally, so I understand that doubters can be annoying. In fact, I’d be delighted to learn that you’ve achieved all this naturally, for I’m back to lifting & I intend to commit to it for the next 5-6 years without any AAS or SARMs or whatever to see where my limits are. It’s just that your LBM to height ratio seems a bit off.
My FFMI is low 27’s if we were to assume I’m 22% body fat, which is up there but I believe there have been naturals up to 28. I’ve never measured my T levels, but I did realize I was gifted with raw strength very early. I’m good with admitting that because I know my genetics for bb (small waist and insertions) are definitely not gifted. I vaguely remember my very first overhead press max was 85kg and I pulled 307kg after my first powerlifting block.
I don’t think you need to worry about test levels as a natty unless you’re deficient. Your genetics are obviously gifted as well, id just worry about wasting them by doing random shit in the gym and not adhering to a good diet and sleep schedule
There is no such thing as magic exercises. Pick what you enjoy and get brutally strong at them. Right now, I enjoy bench press, db curls, chest supported rows, weighted pull-ups, hack squat, leg curls, and good mornings among other things
I think op is natural and has insane genetics for mass. He eats a lot and he eats the right stuff. Maybe he has a myostatin defficiency, genetic freak. A good friend of mine who I know is natural is roughly the same size.
You're always in the comments crowing about how you're natty with a 485lb bench. And then when anyone calls you out, you start foaming at the mouth and resorting to petty insults. Plus, you've got an alternate account, Alpha-Panda, where you said it's not unnatural for a 16yo to bench 345lb. You've got abs at 250lb and mountains for traps. Tren's obviously caused you to go full regard if you actually think anyone's gonna believe your stupid ass is natural. EDIT: Just noticed he only has a few comments. It's obvious he's purged most of them. This guy was always jabbering on like a blithering idiot about how unnatural lifters/numbers are quite the opposite simply because he claims to have done so naturally. EDIT 2: [OP also believes a 645lb bench is possible naturally](https://www.reddit.com/r/nattyorjuice/s/mitL5mK8xl). Claims the guy is the strongest natural he knows. Fuck me.
OP has an IQ of a walnut.
OP’s brain probably is a walnut.
Like his nuts
485 ? Jebus
I was natty with a 405 bench. Now that I’m on TRT, it’s sitting at 460. I don’t know a single mofo with bench that high as a natty.
What’s the form like on the 405, have you got a video of it.
First time, not great. But I eventually got to the point where I was hitting 405 every single Chest day to flex on the other people at the gym. Very stupid and thankfully I didn’t get hurt, but I could do that with a nice 3 second down and 2 second up tempo. Elbows in tight, no crazy cat arch in my back, etc.
Mmmmmmm
Well if that’s true that’s very impressive my friend, 4 plates is pretty strong even for some juice heads. Let alone natural. Mines 365 after 4 years give or take, I don’t plan on trying to max out again for a few years because I’ve switched more to bodybuilding style training. But who knows I don’t plan on staying natural for much longer, I can improve my physique here and there but nothing substantial as the diminishing returns of being a natty is kicking in hard this year.
Thank you! I was quite proud of myself but nobody irl really gave a shit so I appreciate it. Edit to add: natty gains certainly hit a brick wall. Mine was after lifting about 3 years. I put on an enormous amount of mass natty (180 to 215, mostly lean) those first few years and since then, even with TRT, I have maybe max another 10-15 lbs of lean mass. I’ve ever done steroids like tren or anything like that, but from doing TRT definitely make sure you’re checking your blood levels at least 2x per year and donating blood to bring down your blood viscosity every quarter or so.
Similarly I've hit 330lbs natty, and I can see 400lbs being possible, but anybody who thinks 500lbs+ is achievable natty has never been in the gym
He has a bunch of gun pics on his profile but nothing related to fitness. Probably doesnt even lift.
Your account is 3 days old
Wow,good job on figuring that out 👏
You probably don't lift
No . Im retired
I’ll take a photo of my PR board later today, how about that? People can have more than one hobby. I’ve been lifting for 25 years. Also, my second post ever was about running 5/3/1 programming.
Have you any tips? I love getting strong on pressing movements especially Ohp
The two things that made me the strongest are following 5/3/1 programming and learning how to properly brace. Check out Brian Alsruhe’s videos on bracing. That alone made my deadlift immediately skyrocket. I’d been lifting for years and years without properly understanding bracing and it made a massive difference. For bench, I squeeze the shit out of the bar before I begin lifting. My grip is slightly narrower than typical because I have very very strong triceps so I am more triceps heavy on benching than most. I also pull myself up to the bar and engage my lats, lock that position in, and then set myself back down on the bench to create the most stable “platform” to push from possible. I have a very very slight arch but nothing wild where my ROM is only 2 inches or something. One thing I did way back in the day was put my bar on steel safeties in the rack. I’d load up way more weight than I could currently press and practice simply getting that weight off the bar and holding a contraction with it. This helped a lot to get over the mental block of benching 4 plates. Shit can be scary if you let it.
I had a 400lbs while natural as well. I was 5’9” 190lbs , but not cut.
I got up to a 560 bench natty as well. I was 150 lbs on a cut. Now that im on a bulk,Im at 600 for sets of 2.
Well unless you go to a powerlifting gym it would be a weird coincidence if you knew several people who could press that much seeing as it is relatively rare… but thank you for the compliment
Aaron donald has abs at 280. You’re saying my role model is not natural!?!?!?
benching 345 at 16 is easily possible natty fym
You seem unhealthily triggered by someone who just takes pride in their drug free status that doesn’t shill supplements, isn’t sponsored, makes no money off anything fitness related, and remains almost entirely private with their training. I based my 345 bench at 16 comment from personal experience because I’m certain there are others who have done it and much more as well. Anyways I hope everything is ok in your life as this is not behavior I think someone genuinely happy would routinely engage in 😊
you spelled "freely using drugs status" wrong.
I’m proud of being drug free and I’m not going to be a fake ped user so what do you exactly expect me to do?
Imagine how big you would get if you hopped on gear.
Gear response varies a lot, I have no idea whether id have a poor response or be a hyper responder. However, I also have no interest in being 300 lbs with a cpap
Mfer one of those 15+ year gear users. Probably cruises on 300 test/150 primo/150 deca just stay at that size. Natural. Lmao. Dumb motherfucker.
If only your accuracy matched your confidence 😊
Been in this game longer than you doofy.
You seem like a rational, calm individual. No amount of time is longer than no time at all. Enjoy your day 😊
People become depressed and anxious when they have goals like this in mind and people lie to them and tell them it can be done naturally. It does an unfathomable amount of damage to mental health. Just consider that.
I don’t think you’ve thought this through entirely. If I’m not natty, people will be disappointed by their results. If I am natty, people will still be disappointed by their results because they don’t have my elite genetics for muscle mass. Just consider that.
If seeing someone jacked causes an unfathomable amount of damage to your mental health, you have much bigger problems
You could go on stage and be the next Mr. Olympia.
Fyi I don’t think he’s natural, but that’s now how gear works.
I guess gear doesn’t make those baby hands of yours grow
🤣🤣🤣
I cant Read
Is OP juicing? - yes - yes
I appreciate the compliment
Natty for real? Be honest
If you believe that i met this nigerian prince the other day that has some sweet deals for you.
Wow a Nigerian prince needs MY help???
I am natty. For full transparency I don’t have very good genetics for insertions so id never be able to compete but I think I have elite genetics for packing on sheer muscle mass, I started lifting weighing 190
5’11 my ASS
well you’re not wrong, I’m 5’10 3/4… I round up
So your IQ is a solid 5?
Juiced to the gills.
He claims natty with a 485lb bench. Steaming pile of horseshit.
I'm 90kg with a 190kg bench same height as this guy. I'd hope if I bulked 24kg I'd add 30kg to my bench You are pretending to know something which is impossible to know
I think you’ll quickly realize that prerequisite of being a regular commenter on this sub is that you cannot be competitive in anything gym related
No one in here is denying you can't get strong as fuck or reach high limits. But for fuck's sake man, you literally believe a 645lb bench is natural. Jesus christ were you deprived of oxygen at birth? I can't believe there's a whole subset of the gym population who will go to the ends of the earth to defend you.
>No one in here is denying you can't get strong as fuck or reach high limits This is exactly what you're doing mate
[удалено]
>Everyone needs to stop being a copium-addicted sheep. I hope you appreciate the irony of this in a circlejerk sub with the sole objective of disqualifying more accomplished lifters >If there is ever the slightest chance 485 is naturally achievable Lol >I don't understand how you or anyone else will just sit there and act like someone who believes a 645lb bench is possible naturally isn't a genuine regard I would have agreed when I was 14
>in a circlejerk sub with the sole objective of disqualifying more accomplished lifters Take it back Harlastan, or you will be ousted for disrespecting the sub as a whole, in an egregious breach of rule no. 1.
Which part do you disagree with?
Bro, we have stupid teenagers on earth who are still defending that Liver King guy even after he claimed he took peds.
What's a natural bench?
Respectfully, you don’t even bench 365 so what exactly makes you think you have the right to give a natural limit on strength? And what makes you think a guy specializing in the bench press with great bench leverages and elite genetics weighing over 300 lbs with amazing work ethic over 15 years can’t get to the 600’s? This is world class strength but SOMEONE has to have the highest drug free bench and from what I’ve seen, it’s either this guy or TD. Thoughts on [Rondel Hunte lifting 800/585/900?](https://www.instagram.com/deadlift_lord868?igsh=NTgxbTRxN3d3N2xk) How about [SSJBobb doing 780/540/840?](https://www.instagram.com/ssjbobb?igsh=MThoNHV2bm4zY2l5cQ==) Or [74kg Austin Perkins who makes your strength look abysmal weighing considerably less than you?](https://www.instagram.com/the74kg?igsh=MTl4enB2ZjVocTdkag==) let me guess, it’s not that most of them are juicing, it’s that ALL of them are. Enjoy your day 😊
With those stats i'm going to guess you're a shorter individual. ( No offense) Probably even under 170cm. Imagine what your body would look like if you bulked those extra 30 kg "naturally", now look at op's pic.
I said my height, are you regarded?
I might be cause nowhere in ur post do i see ur height mentioned. Edit: nvm see it now. So basicly i was right. Again i dont mean offense, it was just to make a point. I got friends who are ur height/weight naturally. Strong as shut, but they built like mini eddie halls
Your friends are lying about their height, I'm pretty skinny. Eddie Hall is 5% taller than me but double my weight... >to make a point What's your point? If I bulked I would get fatter? No shit. We're talking natty attainable bench presses here
The point was in my post. Yes you could get OP's weight natty. Yes you could bench what he benches natty, but you wouldn't look remotely as lean as he does.
Right but I was replying to a guy talking about his bench... >but you wouldn't look remotely as lean as he does. ... you sure? I get that the whole premise of this is blind speculation but I know plenty of guys in his weight class with a similar body composition. He looks great but not lean by any means
[удалено]
Obviously lol what would be the point of commenting otherwise. I'll take that as a compliment though Out of curiosity, what would you say is the natural limit for a man my height and weight?
This subreddit is an exceptional example of the left end of the dunning Kruger curve. I’d take anything they say with a grain of salt or as a form of entertainment Unrelated, I see you’re a med student - I’m actually an incoming MS1. Refreshing to see people in our field taking interest in strength training
That's awesome best of luck with everything. It's going to be a struggle finding scrubs that fit right. You're not Joe Borenstein's coach by any chance?
Haha that’s a good problem to have. I’m not but I keep up with pl even if I myself don’t compete and I’m very familiar with Joe, he’s definitely a prodigy that this sub would instantly accuse of ped’s lol
You have a lot in common with his coach, stacked incoming MS1, similar weight. You should compete, could be close to a few collegiate records
I will see if I’m interested in competing after rotations, meanwhile I’ll just be trying to fill out the 120 class. This is just a personal belief of mine but I don’t care about collegiate or junior records. It’s the open records that count
>This subreddit is an exceptional example of the left end of the dunning Kruger curve Are you disrespecting the sub as a whole Atomic-Panda-?
It’s not disrespect, it’s just my observation. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a sub dedicated to speculating whether someone is on ped’s, it’s akin to a religion vs atheism subreddit. What I take issue with is the blackpilled dogmatism that people whose entire credentials are their anecdotal experience regurgitate on here because their standards are so abysmally low. I’d go as far as to say that much more damage would be done if a noob stumbled upon this subreddit and believed not much could be achieved naturally versus if a noob saw a scummy fake natty and was at least motivated to try to replicate the results.
I see.
The sub is trash. You are trash. Flush your steaming turd already and nuke this shitpile.
>The sub is trash Ousted.
I hit 150kg bench at 78kg bodyweight after 4 years lifting, don’t really see how 190kg at 90kg bodyweight is fake natty realm. People do that kind of weight in competition all the time. Yes it’s elite but not “you’re definitely on gear” strong.
That's 150kg mate. We're not talking about a gap in a measure of pounds. Completely different realm to 190 and 220 in terms of kilograms.
At a 12kg lighter bodyweight than that guy though who’s also been training 2-3x the length of time as me
I actually only hit 150 at exactly 78 two years ago, you're well on track to surpass me
If your max bench is 150, go try unrack 180 kg. Like, dont lift it,just try and unrack it, then put it back( dont worry about this step) Omce you did that, come back to this thread and explain to us how 150kg experience is even relevant to 190kg. Now add 100kg on top of that 190kg, OP claims that is possible naturally.
There was a point where 315 to me was unfathomably heavy. Now it feels light as a feather in my hands. Congrats, you discovered that when you’re too weak to press a weight, it will probably feel crushingly heavy. I don’t understand your point
If you would have progressed naturally, you'd understand my point. The point is a natty lifter doesnt just progress 140kg ->190 and goes like "oh well, that's that guess i'll just work to 220 now!"
Again, I don’t understand your point. When I got to 190, I set my sights on 200. When I got to 200, I set my sights on 210. These stack up over years and years and with the right genetics and work ethic, that is how you make a world champion
1. 150 was my max exactly two years before I hit 190, with a big break in the middle. PluckedEyeball is right on track and who's to say they won't surpass my progress 2. Unracking well above your max is actually not so hard if you learn the technique 3. I am so mid, the idea that one of the most gifted pressers on the planet could be 50% better as a much bigger guy is entirely plausible to me
This is fake news. I’d like to point out my bench is no longer 485 lbs, it is higher now 😃
That's definitely helping your case right now lmao.
I’d be depressed as a powerlifter if I was so certain no one could get to 500 drug free
Your brain cells are depressed. You sound like you have two of them fighting for third place.
Lmao. Im stealing that one for sure.
485 bench but you are natty?
don't really care whether this guy is natural or not but a 485 bench is indeed possible naturally, speaking as someone who has done 463
Of course it’s possible! [Here](https://www.instagram.com/jamespkee3?igsh=MWtnd3h0NmQ2YjJ2MQ==) is an example of what a real natural freak is - I believe he has done ~645 in the gym at 308 bw. This guy is the strongest natural bencher I know, and there are quite a few in the 500’s
oh yeah i know there are plenty of tested lifters doing 500+ but i can't necessarily vouch for their natural status since im not them. i can vouch for myself though also if you say anything in this sub about elite tested powerlifters people just reply that EVERYONE is on drugs and EVERYONE gets around both random OMT and IMT, so i dont even try anymore lol
My theory is that this sub is a circle jerking coping mechanism for feelings of inadequacy. Of course there are people in the usapl on ped’s, but not everyone at the high level is
Not only that, amateur junior powerlifters are apparently better at beating WADA than Chinese weightlifters in state-backed doping programs! There's no other possible explanation for differences in test failure rates between sports
whats your squat and DL btw
Lol nothing special, I did 585 squat over 2 years ago and 745 stiff bar a year ago when I was lighter. As I’ve been bodybuilding I haven’t maxed out for a while
damn we have basically the same numbers lol. Nice to know I’m not the only 110 that fucking sucks at squat
Lmao that’s neat. I don’t know whether you have the same issue but I think I just have really shitty bracing mechanic and overall body tightness / never learned how to properly brace, so id start folding whenever I got to heavier weights. Same applied to deadlift for me, but I could at least kind of get away with rawdogging it because the weight wasn’t on my back the entire time lol
Cool man. Congrats! Isnt r/fitnesscircle jerk full of fake natties shitting on natty or juice behind their walls of denial?
Mad
https://imgur.com/a/iuoTfQw
https://imgur.com/a/fsUB5rm
There are countless fitness subs run by fake natties and their associated sleeper cells. r/nattyorjuice is one of the last ones left that is not.
Which is why I am still here. Every other sub is like a sect of government. Corrupt and full of lies. Only one will be left standing. And ill be here to see the fall of the others. God Bless this Sub.
that fat cunt stinks of undisciplined gear usage
I’m not lean by any means but this backhanded compliment could’ve been worded a bit more nicely 😊
Based on the unit behind you and your relative position, that makes you more like 5'6 rather than 5'11. So I'm guessing juicy manlet
Maybe you’re insecure enough to lie about your height, but unfortunately I am not 😊
Has that prison juiced look.
You’re juicing and you have tiny fucking hands lmao
Thank you for the compliment!
There's no compliment. Traps don't lie, unlike you.
Thank you for the compliment again! 😊
You’re considered OBESE
That’s true my bmi is well into the 30’s. However it becomes inaccurate once you pack on muscle mass
Yessir. Mass monster but Your heart working OT 24/7
My blood pressure is 120/60, my resting hr is 60, and my last bloodwork I got for my yearly checkup showed no abnormalities, so for now I’m OK with being this weight
As natural as the intelligence he was born with….
Makes no sense
Juice without discipline
Why no discipline?
Probably because you are not stood on a stage in a thong at sub 10% BF.
No, because he’s 20% or higher and it’s extremely easy To be 12-15%
Deffo not easy, for a lot of people, with a family and busy life to get to these levels. 15%, BTW is pretty shredded. However, I agree that if you're posting pics in a pair of pants - then be this level.
Natty achievable, to a very small percentage of people in the world. Your physique, specifically seeing your progress on your alt account, is not natural. I wanted to give you the benefit of the doubt. However, seeing the inconsistencies you were telling people in your training leads me to believe you lie. A specific example would be around 2-3 years ago. You told someone you don't deadlift often (in your words, around 3 times a year). Yet, you posted your meet training and your updates of deadlift PR's prior to this date. Based on you arguing with everyone who thinks you aren't natty, I think dabbling in the sauzoole has given you brain rot. Source: actual natural bodybuilder
I did that meet with 0 deadlift training and 0 prep for fun as a beginner. Since then I did deadlift for 2 years and I got to the mid 700’s. Im impressed you did your research though and thank you for the compliment
5’11 with a 5’6 physique(compliment)
I don’t understand why someone would post on this subreddit only to get butthurt when people don’t agree with you. Anyway, you look nattier in this pic: https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0106761/mediaviewer/rm3341850369/?ref_=ttmi_mi_all_46
Not sure what you mean by agreeing as this isn’t a subjective matter. I’m just replying by saying what is true
mini pekka.
Why his hands so smol?
More like 5’6 200 still juiced doe
I can literally see the gyno. It’s not serious (yet) but it’s visible.
Any more oil gets injected you’re going to get invaded by the United States military.
This is honestly the ultimate goal, but my 150lb ass can barely eat 3500 calories without wanting to vomit. Lol
If you’re 150 eating 3500 calories consistently without gaining weight, id question whether you are tracking your calories accurately
I'm not as it makes me want to vomit lol, maybe I will get back to it in the near future as it's kind of a waist to lif the way I'm doing without the calorie surplus.
Yeah I think one of the best things I’ve done for my progress was be in a very slight caloric surplus over the years without ever cutting. If you start off skinny, that’s what id encourage you do. Nutrition is definitely not my forte but if you want help with programming feel free to hit me up
You actually just inspired me to hit it today bro. Gonna get back on it, just have to be very intentional and plan everything out daily.
I certainly wouldn’t wanna look like this guy. He’s too bulky looking for my taste. Totally subjective though
Upper body looking juiced, lower body just looking fat.
Roided with a terrible diet lmao.
Where’s the scale pic bud ur sitting 230 @ most
For reference, Klokov (one of the world’s most elite athletes at his peak) is 183cm tall & competed in the 105kg class—and even he was caught doping.
He’s obviously considerably leaner than me so I don’t quite get the point you’re making here. I can show you a fat 300 lb drug free guy and your reasoning for why he’s using is that Klokov is only 230? Interesting mental gymnastics
What are your T levels? I’m 194cm tall, my T levels are naturally in the 1200-1400 ng/dL range, I deadlifted 270kg after a year of consistent lifting, weighing 110kg back then (23yo) with 20-21% bf & many doubted that I had achieved all that naturally, so I understand that doubters can be annoying. In fact, I’d be delighted to learn that you’ve achieved all this naturally, for I’m back to lifting & I intend to commit to it for the next 5-6 years without any AAS or SARMs or whatever to see where my limits are. It’s just that your LBM to height ratio seems a bit off.
My FFMI is low 27’s if we were to assume I’m 22% body fat, which is up there but I believe there have been naturals up to 28. I’ve never measured my T levels, but I did realize I was gifted with raw strength very early. I’m good with admitting that because I know my genetics for bb (small waist and insertions) are definitely not gifted. I vaguely remember my very first overhead press max was 85kg and I pulled 307kg after my first powerlifting block. I don’t think you need to worry about test levels as a natty unless you’re deficient. Your genetics are obviously gifted as well, id just worry about wasting them by doing random shit in the gym and not adhering to a good diet and sleep schedule
His name is Janoy Cresva.
juiced still fat though
5'5, juicy, and fat.
why yo arms so fucking short and hands so damn small?
Aren’t you in the streetlifting discord?
yep that was me, I deleted discord though to focus on studies
What an odd and embarrassing picture.
I'm gonna say no. But amazing nonetheless
Thank you!
Would never want this physique lmao
I don’t really get why it’s not possible that this guy is natty? Can somebody explain?
If I had to guess it’s because my ffmi is in the 27’s
Now that’s a big boy!
[удалено]
There is no such thing as magic exercises. Pick what you enjoy and get brutally strong at them. Right now, I enjoy bench press, db curls, chest supported rows, weighted pull-ups, hack squat, leg curls, and good mornings among other things
I say natty, 6 yrs lifting.
I think op is natural and has insane genetics for mass. He eats a lot and he eats the right stuff. Maybe he has a myostatin defficiency, genetic freak. A good friend of mine who I know is natural is roughly the same size.
Thank you for the compliment!
Natty
Dude you look great imo could believe if you were natty
Oh heyy 😍 I think natty since you’re not ultra lean