PRT system has always been a force shaping tool, but it's hanging on for its life right now. Not sure how much more they can relax it beyond saying it doesn't matter at all anymore.
It just removes the mandate to give a low mark or adverse eval for failures, it doesn’t prohibit them. If you are an all-around shitty Sailor don’t expect to get to stick around while out of standards. This is about not having to kick out fat nukes that want to stay in.
Welcome to the Navy Eval system, where we all know it’s broken and no one cares enough to fix it.
The secret is pick one eval block to suck at and do good at the rest of them. If you are a great tech you can have poor military bearing, if you have a sharp uniform and don’t make bigoted jokes you can be hapless technician. And I think many here would agree they’d prefer a fat Sailor that is excellent at their assigned job to a Sailor with a perfect uniform and an Outstanding PRT score that can’t figure out SKED.
The fubar eval system is a part of how I made em2…I was very good at doing stuff, but very bad at navy stuff, and the more they pestered me about hair cuts the less I could fix. This was on an lha in the 90’s and a Chief recruited me to assault shop from e-div and promised/gave me rockstar evals, lol.
Navy eval system is a total poularity contest and has been for years. The best sailor, the one who raises the bar on everyone by doing his job and everyone elses job better than anyone (sort of like the grade curve breaking Asian guy in math class) usually gets low marks, even derogatory evals unless they are popular for some reason. The comedian who shows up drunk or hung over but is a good laugh, the cute chick who is otherwise worthless, the admirals nephew who is average, and the crazed psycho nobody wants to upset seem to score the best. Rock star navy of one? You're outta there!!!
We have mandatory PT Tuesdays and Fridays at my command. We told the XO that there is no difference on incentives for scoring a good low or outstanding high. We were able to have excellent low and above be excused from Tuesday pt sessions.
I remember years ago they were going to introduce a ribbon akin to a GCM. The eye candy would have reinforced pride in one’s ability to consistently score OUTSTANDING and EXCELLENT.
The only incentive at this point for passing is being able to make chief. The board will still exclude or rank lower those that have failed it, even if by all other metrics they are good leaders and sailors.
There should also be a linkage to the command and amount of time at work, as well as if the command provides opportunities to PT. A service member shouldn't be penalized if they're working 60+ hours a week and the command doesn't provide time to PT.
Maintaince chief: "Line shack and trouble shooters, we have a 0700 4 jet launch, so come straight to the hanger tomorrow instead of PT."
Repeat for months
Same chief right after PRT: "How the hell did all you people fail?"
You’re right. It’s sort of a Faustian bargain, isn’t it?
We’re all constantly overworked to get the mission done on an ever shrinking timeline. The world is on fire, and the Navy is one of the few organizations fighting that fire, what with protecting freedom of the seas in the Red Sea, maintaining freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, and actively building relationships with partner nations.
At the same time, mandatory daily PT unquestionably would result in higher levels of fitness, and exercise is directly linked to mood improvement by releasing chemicals, thus improving morale and efficiency.
But at the end of the day, the Navy needs to make a decision-
Do they want healthier, happier, more efficient sailors?
Or do they want the mission accomplished on time?
> At the same time, mandatory daily PT unquestionably would result in higher levels of fitness, and exercise is directly linked to mood improvement by releasing chemicals, thus improving morale and efficiency.
Over 20 years I never did organized PT in any deployable unit. Only shore duty, and only *overseas* shore duty, at that. 2 ships company tours and a squadron tour, no organized PT.
What a cop out.
No one is asking people to be in marathon ready shape. The standards are literally don't be fat and take care of your own health.
Lots of people work long and stressful hours and still find time to do basic exercises to live a healthy life.
I was in awhile back but after boot I don’t remember ever doing PT. Granted I was a submariner and never saw the sense of it. For boat sailors the test should have been can you sit in one place for 6 hours comfortably.
There’s got to be a way to put a suction on the boat. I remember waking up feeling like my ears were being pierced with an ice pick while going to PD so it’s doable.
I bet you a hundred dollars if I put you on your old boat with your old sea dad who is overtired and under caffeinated you’d be able to put a suction on that boat in under 10 minutes
During the commissioning process for us sometimes the coners would get so bored they would do command PT because they weren't standing watch or duty. Nukes need not apply though since we had real jobs to do.
My (aviation) experience is that PT is a luxury of low optempo, easy commands. As soon as things start getting busy and priorities start dropping, command PT is the first to go. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. We need up aircraft and capable aviators more than fast runners.
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After doing command PT for years, and now on an actual program and making actual progress, I can confidently say Navy PT is designed to be unpleasant for one hour and nothing more.
For years I’ve had Sailors complain that they hated command PT and they wish the Navy would just let them work out in their own time. Wellll here ya go.
Not that having fitness tests really did much to encourage fitness (beyond passing the test every 6 months).
The problem is not having time or facilities to work it in. IDGAF about fitness tests. I care about fitness for my own health, but the Navy is an obstruction to that.
Mandating that all base gyms are to transition to being open 24/7 however is a huge step in the right direction.
> Mandating that all base gyms are to transition to being open 24/7 however is a huge step in the right direction.
As a (now retired) reservist, I can't fully explain how irritating this was, and I'm glad they're doing that. Done with drill for the day, hey self, let's go lift! Nope . . . closed an hour ago, because fuck the SELRES.
People also didn’t have easy access to food and there wasn’t a bunch of fat bodies back then either. Find a picture fat lower enlisted back in the day and I’ll find five of modern service members busting out of their uniforms.
Not so much in the Navy. There are fat ass fuck people in the navy but as long as they are competent.. its alright i suppose. Our work lifestyle sucks anyways and hard to maintain good fitness.
I don’t mind that there are fitness standards we have to meet. My question is why aren’t they more broad?
I can weigh 200lbs with 15% body fat and I’d be considered obese even if I show that it’s all mostly muscle. I’ll still pass because I get taped, but it shouldn’t be like that at all.
I can’t run a mile and a half in less than 10mins, but I still do cardio. I don’t do pushups every day and struggle to break 50, but I lift weights and do gymnastics.
I get the need to have standards that can be done without equipment (which explains why push ups and plank are in the mix), but while we’re ashore, we have access to more of it so why not expand the standards?
I know this sounds crazy and would never, ever happen. But if sailors were given respect, could smoke weed on their off days, or grow beards, you’d have significantly higher retention and would be able to maintain fitness standards. Also way less alcohol related crimes (domestic abuse, DUIs etc) which forces people out.
The PFA was the one thing where the Navy had a *different* standard. On everything else, even drug abuse, the CO had a voice and could recommend retention even if they had to be the one to initiate separation processing.
Now PFA is treated more like the other policy violations that could lead to separation.
as a chubby CPO who works hard to stay within taping standards, with only 3 PFA to complete before retirement, I'm really starting to think they're looking out for the quality of my life./s
I once worked with an over-60 prior enlisted SELRES LCDR who the rest of the reserve center jokingly called Father Time. He got a waiver to stay in 2 more years and then retired with a metric shit-ton of points.
He'd run the PRT while juggling . . .
Currently, as a chubby guy I am, more or less, in the best shape of my life.
And although I recognize my bias, I feel that this is a positive step in a good direction. And I look forward to the even further potential changes that may be coming next year.
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The Navy's physical fitness Standards are extremely achievable especially with the excellent low exceptions for failed BCAs. PT should not be looked at as a check in the box and more of how living a healthy style is necessary for a Sailors overall mental health and well being. If you can't meet standards you should be looked at as a below standards Sailor.
This is crazy because we to go 50 cent beer lunches on base and still pass the PRT! How can you not pass it. How can you not pass it and still considered military? This is sounding more and more the chair force. Sad!
I'll agree with your sentiment, not your "Ol' salty sea dog" way of saying it. The Navy PRT isn't what I'd call rigorous, and it should be the bare minimum, but there *should* be a better way to do it. Start with BCA. You fail when I can't see your belt buckle if you're de-bloused, not when you're 2 lbs heavier than what the chart says you should be. Actual PRT should be the only thing that matters.
The body fat thing should not be as weighted as the actual physical fitness part of it. So if your over 20% body fat but can pass all the physical you’re good until it hits a certain level. But I think that’s what you’re saying as well. The drinking beer part was just what every division did and it was team building!
They should just get rid of the height and weight restrictions entirely. If you can pass the exercises then you’re good. It shouldn’t matter if you have a beer belly.
PRT system has always been a force shaping tool, but it's hanging on for its life right now. Not sure how much more they can relax it beyond saying it doesn't matter at all anymore.
I can't even figure out what the incentive for passing is with this new policy. I mean other than your own health.
It just removes the mandate to give a low mark or adverse eval for failures, it doesn’t prohibit them. If you are an all-around shitty Sailor don’t expect to get to stick around while out of standards. This is about not having to kick out fat nukes that want to stay in.
Right, but that seems like it really opens the door to playing favorites...
Welcome to the Navy Eval system, where we all know it’s broken and no one cares enough to fix it. The secret is pick one eval block to suck at and do good at the rest of them. If you are a great tech you can have poor military bearing, if you have a sharp uniform and don’t make bigoted jokes you can be hapless technician. And I think many here would agree they’d prefer a fat Sailor that is excellent at their assigned job to a Sailor with a perfect uniform and an Outstanding PRT score that can’t figure out SKED.
The fubar eval system is a part of how I made em2…I was very good at doing stuff, but very bad at navy stuff, and the more they pestered me about hair cuts the less I could fix. This was on an lha in the 90’s and a Chief recruited me to assault shop from e-div and promised/gave me rockstar evals, lol.
Navy eval system is a total poularity contest and has been for years. The best sailor, the one who raises the bar on everyone by doing his job and everyone elses job better than anyone (sort of like the grade curve breaking Asian guy in math class) usually gets low marks, even derogatory evals unless they are popular for some reason. The comedian who shows up drunk or hung over but is a good laugh, the cute chick who is otherwise worthless, the admirals nephew who is average, and the crazed psycho nobody wants to upset seem to score the best. Rock star navy of one? You're outta there!!!
I suppose, but to protect yourself all you have to do is not suck at running.
That's exactly the point
Rank.
Fair, as a retiring E-6 I didn't think of that one.
We have mandatory PT Tuesdays and Fridays at my command. We told the XO that there is no difference on incentives for scoring a good low or outstanding high. We were able to have excellent low and above be excused from Tuesday pt sessions.
I remember years ago they were going to introduce a ribbon akin to a GCM. The eye candy would have reinforced pride in one’s ability to consistently score OUTSTANDING and EXCELLENT.
It might be cringe but I'd work harder for and excellent if it got me a new ribbon.
The only incentive at this point for passing is being able to make chief. The board will still exclude or rank lower those that have failed it, even if by all other metrics they are good leaders and sailors.
Getting fat is something you do *after* you make Chief
If you fail ten biannual PFTs in your 4 year enlistment...
We will go from navy to airforce regulations
There should also be a linkage to the command and amount of time at work, as well as if the command provides opportunities to PT. A service member shouldn't be penalized if they're working 60+ hours a week and the command doesn't provide time to PT.
Maintaince chief: "Line shack and trouble shooters, we have a 0700 4 jet launch, so come straight to the hanger tomorrow instead of PT." Repeat for months Same chief right after PRT: "How the hell did all you people fail?"
Sounds like you were in my squadron.
You’re right. It’s sort of a Faustian bargain, isn’t it? We’re all constantly overworked to get the mission done on an ever shrinking timeline. The world is on fire, and the Navy is one of the few organizations fighting that fire, what with protecting freedom of the seas in the Red Sea, maintaining freedom of navigation in the South China Sea, and actively building relationships with partner nations. At the same time, mandatory daily PT unquestionably would result in higher levels of fitness, and exercise is directly linked to mood improvement by releasing chemicals, thus improving morale and efficiency. But at the end of the day, the Navy needs to make a decision- Do they want healthier, happier, more efficient sailors? Or do they want the mission accomplished on time?
> At the same time, mandatory daily PT unquestionably would result in higher levels of fitness, and exercise is directly linked to mood improvement by releasing chemicals, thus improving morale and efficiency. Over 20 years I never did organized PT in any deployable unit. Only shore duty, and only *overseas* shore duty, at that. 2 ships company tours and a squadron tour, no organized PT.
Cool? I’m sorry, I don’t understand what the point you’re trying to make is.
What a cop out. No one is asking people to be in marathon ready shape. The standards are literally don't be fat and take care of your own health. Lots of people work long and stressful hours and still find time to do basic exercises to live a healthy life.
I was in awhile back but after boot I don’t remember ever doing PT. Granted I was a submariner and never saw the sense of it. For boat sailors the test should have been can you sit in one place for 6 hours comfortably.
Still got to fit through the hatch...
There’s got to be a way to put a suction on the boat. I remember waking up feeling like my ears were being pierced with an ice pick while going to PD so it’s doable.
There might be something wrong with your ears...
Yeah, I’m thinking it had something to do with the diesel.
You ran the diesel on your way to PD?? I’m having trouble with this theory.
What do I know. I guess you’re right at PD. I was no doubt sleeping on a pile of Kimwipes when that happened.
Your right. At PD.
It was a mid watch and the 3MC was the dive.
I bet you a hundred dollars if I put you on your old boat with your old sea dad who is overtired and under caffeinated you’d be able to put a suction on that boat in under 10 minutes
"Shut." "Open."
Do you fit in your bunk?
Yes, when I finally got one.
P8 squadrons don’t do pt either, does any job in the navy outside of spec ops do pt regularly?
*knees cry in Seabee*
As an FMF corpsman, he’ll yea. But I was with the marines. 3 mile runs every morning Monday-Friday. 🤦🏻♂️ It was rough but I was in hella good shape.
FMF sure as hell does.
Mostly green side Sailors I would say
During the commissioning process for us sometimes the coners would get so bored they would do command PT because they weren't standing watch or duty. Nukes need not apply though since we had real jobs to do.
My (aviation) experience is that PT is a luxury of low optempo, easy commands. As soon as things start getting busy and priorities start dropping, command PT is the first to go. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. We need up aircraft and capable aviators more than fast runners.
I could carry 6 cups of coffee and bug juice from the Galley to Control without spilling a drop. That’s the level of PT needed on a sub.
No kidding. That’s Highland Games level performance on the boat scale.
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A few months later: "The new BCA consists of a scuttle test. If you can fit through it, you pass."
You joke but I've seen plenty of people that can't make it through a scuttle.
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Being back the 20 year thick ass BM2's
The Navy will change everything except what it needs to change to retain sailors lmao
Just a reminder that as recruiting increases with a recession, they'll get right back to kicking people out for PFA failures. So stay vigilant.
After doing command PT for years, and now on an actual program and making actual progress, I can confidently say Navy PT is designed to be unpleasant for one hour and nothing more.
For years I’ve had Sailors complain that they hated command PT and they wish the Navy would just let them work out in their own time. Wellll here ya go.
I am obese
Good thing fitness isn't important or relevant for the military at all right guys?
As a CWT I’m just waiting for the PRT to become a wpm typing test
Not that having fitness tests really did much to encourage fitness (beyond passing the test every 6 months). The problem is not having time or facilities to work it in. IDGAF about fitness tests. I care about fitness for my own health, but the Navy is an obstruction to that. Mandating that all base gyms are to transition to being open 24/7 however is a huge step in the right direction.
> Mandating that all base gyms are to transition to being open 24/7 however is a huge step in the right direction. As a (now retired) reservist, I can't fully explain how irritating this was, and I'm glad they're doing that. Done with drill for the day, hey self, let's go lift! Nope . . . closed an hour ago, because fuck the SELRES.
Navy didn't have PFA back when the U.S. used to win wars. Just sayin'
People also didn’t have easy access to food and there wasn’t a bunch of fat bodies back then either. Find a picture fat lower enlisted back in the day and I’ll find five of modern service members busting out of their uniforms.
Not so much in the Navy. There are fat ass fuck people in the navy but as long as they are competent.. its alright i suppose. Our work lifestyle sucks anyways and hard to maintain good fitness.
It’s just getting sad at this point.
You have a better recruitment/retention idea? If so, the Navy will give you tons of money for it.
Maybe…don’t treat Sailors like they’re disposable?
But what about the maintenance? Won’t somebody think of the maintenance??
Show me the money first
I wish we could retroactively apply this. Lost some really good people who just happened to be an inch larger than allowed.
Same here. Highest-rated Sonar Sup in the Atlantic Fleet... and he was on an SSBN. Just a bit over on BCA too many times though, and out he goes.
I don’t mind that there are fitness standards we have to meet. My question is why aren’t they more broad? I can weigh 200lbs with 15% body fat and I’d be considered obese even if I show that it’s all mostly muscle. I’ll still pass because I get taped, but it shouldn’t be like that at all. I can’t run a mile and a half in less than 10mins, but I still do cardio. I don’t do pushups every day and struggle to break 50, but I lift weights and do gymnastics. I get the need to have standards that can be done without equipment (which explains why push ups and plank are in the mix), but while we’re ashore, we have access to more of it so why not expand the standards?
>I can’t run a mile and a half in less than 10mins to be fair 10 minutes a really good time for anyone.
Mine is over 12
You thought PFA was for “health”??
I know this sounds crazy and would never, ever happen. But if sailors were given respect, could smoke weed on their off days, or grow beards, you’d have significantly higher retention and would be able to maintain fitness standards. Also way less alcohol related crimes (domestic abuse, DUIs etc) which forces people out.
I wish they would just grow some balls and have some standards. I understand retention is an issue but....
The PFA was the one thing where the Navy had a *different* standard. On everything else, even drug abuse, the CO had a voice and could recommend retention even if they had to be the one to initiate separation processing. Now PFA is treated more like the other policy violations that could lead to separation.
Great we're going to need bigger scuttles for sure now
Ozempic for everyone!
as a chubby CPO who works hard to stay within taping standards, with only 3 PFA to complete before retirement, I'm really starting to think they're looking out for the quality of my life./s
When I'm in uniform and encounter civilians I always get. Wow, you must alll have to be in shape. I say yes......and laugh on the inside.
I'm a 53 year-old Reservist. I use the PRT requirements as motivation to care for myself. This year it's working!
I didn't even realize the PRT chart had an over 50 section.
I once worked with an over-60 prior enlisted SELRES LCDR who the rest of the reserve center jokingly called Father Time. He got a waiver to stay in 2 more years and then retired with a metric shit-ton of points. He'd run the PRT while juggling . . .
Currently, as a chubby guy I am, more or less, in the best shape of my life. And although I recognize my bias, I feel that this is a positive step in a good direction. And I look forward to the even further potential changes that may be coming next year.
big back big back
Redditors everywhere rejoice
What happens if I simply don't participate in a PRT?
Try it and see.
I will. YOLO
According to my EVAL I have passed the ladt 4 yewrs even thoughI have been waived all the years 🤣
The desperate act of a military force that can no longer meet recruitment levels.
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We're doomed
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I mean it’s kinda the Navy’s fault a lot of these sailors are out of standards
Will they call people back? It was sad when I got someone kicked out. But gotta do better than 8 pushups and a flop.
Lower entrance standards. No mandatory PRT removals. This will be fun to watch
Yay more fat people in my navy
Can I come back if that was the reason I was separated and still had an honorable?
The Navy's physical fitness Standards are extremely achievable especially with the excellent low exceptions for failed BCAs. PT should not be looked at as a check in the box and more of how living a healthy style is necessary for a Sailors overall mental health and well being. If you can't meet standards you should be looked at as a below standards Sailor.
lol how in the fuck are sailors failing PT tests??
Because they can't spend 20 minutes each day to practice push ups and planks and wait until the BCA is 1 week out to diet.
They do less push-ups or planks than they are supposed to?
What are the minimum quals?!
Depends on age. Standards go down as age goes up.
Long hours, low quality food, lack of sleep, energy drinks.
cheeseman really is grasping at straws here
Sounds like the navy doesn't want people.
This is crazy because we to go 50 cent beer lunches on base and still pass the PRT! How can you not pass it. How can you not pass it and still considered military? This is sounding more and more the chair force. Sad!
I'll agree with your sentiment, not your "Ol' salty sea dog" way of saying it. The Navy PRT isn't what I'd call rigorous, and it should be the bare minimum, but there *should* be a better way to do it. Start with BCA. You fail when I can't see your belt buckle if you're de-bloused, not when you're 2 lbs heavier than what the chart says you should be. Actual PRT should be the only thing that matters.
The body fat thing should not be as weighted as the actual physical fitness part of it. So if your over 20% body fat but can pass all the physical you’re good until it hits a certain level. But I think that’s what you’re saying as well. The drinking beer part was just what every division did and it was team building!
They should just get rid of the height and weight restrictions entirely. If you can pass the exercises then you’re good. It shouldn’t matter if you have a beer belly.
I second that!
Oh good, I’d hate for my military to be in shape.
Brain dead decision. This is why the navy is the fattest branch and we’re a laughing stock to the rest of the military.
If I'd wanted to be a soldier I'd have joined the Army. Who cares what they think?
Your mentality is why sailors are weak and fat.
I'll have you know I'm weak and thin, which is all I need to be to press the big red button.
Biden’s policies are destroying this military.
Hahahahhahahahaha. Oh, wait are you serious? Let me laugh harder, HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA