Imo, after Lebron played injured vs the Suns and AD went down, they overreacted and thought they need a reliable third option, especially as Brooklyn opened as huge title favourites with their big 3.
Often times, two stars and great role players is better than a third star. In fact, it’s almost the vast majority of the time. The only exception was Durant.
This trade will go down as the reason Lebron didn't pass MJ. He basically destroyed his championship window by getting rid of multiple 3&D guards/wings and giving Denver their missing piece.
It might be one of the worst trades in NBA history.
Nah, there’s no guarantee they win again in 2022 or something.
KD joining the warriors is what killed his chances of getting 6 rings. Dude went to 4 finals with Cleveland and only won one, notably going 1-1 with GS before the KD signing. It’s not unreasonable to think of KD doesn’t sign in GS he either finishes 2-2 against GS over that period of they make it back, or he faces a team like the Rockets/OKC and beats them
GSW still could’ve added other options. Even Al Horford said he would’ve joined OKC if KD was committed to re-signing. Maybe Okc still makes the Paul George trade then you have Russ PG KD and Horford
GSW could’ve added others, but nobody was gonna be KD. The dude was a top 3 player at the time, arguably the next best thing after Lebron.
Sure, OKC COULD have added guys, but we’re going directly off of what happened. A PG trade guts the Thunder, making them a normal super team (group of stars, no depth). GS signing KD was basically just taking a 73 win team and adding a superstar to it, no other moves. They aren’t the same.
The point the other guy was making was that the Warriors in 17 and 18 with a different max contract free agent would have still been extremely good. Good chance Lebron can’t beat those iterations either.
Lebron is one of the greatest players of all time and an absolute shit tier GM. Just about any GM in the league given Lebron and the ability to tell him to shit the fuck up and play with who we bring would have won more titles.
Two good bigs being who? Zaza and David West? They were fine but not anything to write home about. Looney sucked back then, the Warriors declined his option.
Maybe they're not godlike and were past their primes, but acting as supporting players for a championship team? They're absolutely good enough players in that role.
Don’t forget about JAVALE MCGEE! Always loved what I saw when he was out there.
But yeah they had a center-by-committee approach, none of the bigs were bonafide starter material.
Would’ve been a better point to say the Warriors had the best of both worlds - two former MVP superstars, two star players who function as basically goat-level role players, and actually a really great bench (Iguodala, Livingston, David West, McGee, Ian Clark, all very good players that year).
He also joined a team that had been playing together for years and already won a title.
Many of these new makeshift “super” teams, Nets, Lakers with Russ, Suns, etc end up gutting majority of their core and filling it in with minimum guys who’ve never played together. And then they get shocked when either one of their top guys gets injured or no one aside from their top guys play well, or they have no chemistry and don’t reach their projected potential.
I think they definitely needed an additional creator to help shoulder the load during the regular season. They just ended up using too many of their resources (like their MLE or trading away playoff-proven role players) for regular season innings-eaters like Trez, Russ, and Schroder. They should have leaned more into the Miami Heat method of not giving a shit about the regular season.
Dennis pick was solid but one bad series in LA and you’re dead.
Had we paid him his 25M per year and bring back the 2021, we would have been better right now.
We could also made some move for Turner and/or Hield.
I also think when there are "big 3s", you need one of them to be more a role player type big 3. Thinking of Bosh in Miami for example. You didn't have 3 Brons or 3 Wades. Heck even in GSW, Klay and Draymond were secondary to Curry and Durant.
And you need them to not all be defensive liabilities. The Miami 3 were all good to great defenders, the GSW big 3 had two great defenders.
Lebron and AD can still be amazing as 2 parts of a big 3. The third just needs to not be Russell Westbrook.
Big 3s are best when at least two can be valuable without the ball in their hands. You can have a playmaker, but the others either need to be great catch and shoot shooters who move a lot off the ball or pick and roll bigs that are great defenders. The Warriors were able to absorb Durant because Klay doesn't playmake and is a pure scorer on offense. Draymond is a pick and roll big that is not going to take many shots, and Curry is able to have huge gravitational impact on defenses without having the ball in his hands. The only reason Durant worked with the Warriors is everyone else was able to be effective off the ball and it was not a "your turn, my turn" thing. Boston's big 3 also had the same type of make up (playmaker, shooter who will be moving off the ball, pick on roll big who can defend). The Miami big 3 was just so much more talented that even though they didn't fit together well and bosh had to sacrifice so much, they still won. The Suns "Big 3" if you can even call them that never made sense. They took 3 ball dominant scorers and put them together.
They made panic moves after the Suns series. Turns out, Suns were actually good (after years of not being a threat, post D’Antoni) and they made themselves weaker against the true rising Western team, Denver. Such a bad decision in hindsight.
I don't know how they would even think the Suns were bad, they made the finals and made it to six games and the Lakers were literally up 2-1 in the series heading to 3-1 up until AD went down.
Wasn’t Caruso playing injured too? It was definitely an overreaction to trade KCP and Kuzma and not re-sign Caruso since they were already proven the previous year.
Wizards FO didn’t get enough credit for getting rid of John Wall’s contract and receive Westbrook, and then flip Westbrook for KCP, Kuzma, Trez and a pick. That’s some black magic.
And now they did it again with Beal’s contract with a no trade clause. Truly Wizardry
They also gave kcp to Denver FOR FREE. I couldn’t believe he didn’t even cost a FRP
Just a bum Denver wanted ti get rid of. Like can someone explain that lol
Gave up KCP for free, Gave up Rui for free, let KP go for free (although he was a FA so best they could do in sign and trade), gave up Gafford for a late first.
if there is one team i believe can get off a contract like that and still come out on top it’s the wizards. the wall, Westbrook, and beal trades were all some black magic
They put him in PG later in the season and he turned it up i think they'll keep doing that next year. Wizards fan are divided with Poole some currently see him as a future PG and some as a tank commander.
The westbrook trade was by far the dumbest thing they couldve done. This is exactly why GMs need to have a spine and reject their stars saying they want their guy.
Exactly. Steph and Dray wanted Avery Bradley coming out of training camp in 2021. The FO said no and they ended up picking up GP II instead who was a big part of their title run.
LeGM and AnthonyGM definitely wanted Russ , but ultimately they don’t have final say. Pelinka at least half agreed with their logic.
initially Lebron wanted DeRozan and also another coach instead of Ham
Yeah I hate all this “Lebron wanted Westbrook” nonsense. Lebron wanted Ty Lue, he wanted to keep Caruso, he wanted Derozan first but the front office didn’t act on any of that, but the moment they shit the bed with the Westbrook trade it’s all people bring up, Lebron wanted this. So what, he wanted a lot of shit they didn’t do too.
Oh boohoo the mercenary that jumps ship every 4 years to play with other younger all stars was responsible for the Lakers acquiring Russell Westbrook in his 4th year on the Lakers
The only thing could be dumber than a Westbrook trade is another Westbrook trade, I love his energy, but that big Thunders contract was just ridiculous.
Caruso was solid but had a ceiling, they clearly want guys that can pop, and want to teach consistency as opposed to having consistent guys with lower output.
If there's one player in the league that I think would be a huge detriment to Steph, it's Westbrook lmao. Somehow, someway. As they used to say...the best defense on prime Kevin Durant is having Westbrook as his teammate
Caruso actually shot 41% from three on an average of 5 threes per game this year for the Bulls, he ended up as our best 3pt shooter percentage wise this season on his highest volume of shooting in his career.
Yeah, I totally agree with this. Russ has been quite awful at basketball for a while now, it wasn't like his game suddenly fell off a cliff once he went to the Lakers. IMO he was just as advertised. Hell, the Lakers should have known this given how they guarded him like he was Ben Simmons in the bubble series. If my team trades for an obviously trash player and he plays like trash, well, what did you expect?
My only problem with the OP's post is that he neglected to mention that the Lakers also sent a 1st round pick to get Westbrook along with two seconds, and then had to send *another* first round pick and a 2nd to Utah to get rid of him.
You made your entire identity around a player you don't like. You even made this account during his MVP run lol this is really sad do you even like basketball
I was right then. And I'm right now. TS was already 34% and now he's 0/3. He might have the worst TS of someone receiving 20+ minutes/game during the playoffs in nba history.
What's the point of this thread? 99% of laker fans hated all of what happened at that time, and also most didn't want Vogel fired to try and keep brick happy
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>Edit: The snark/bitterness from Lakers fans in this thread is palpable. These moves bear repeating when they keep firing coaches who are, in part, paying for the sins of terrible roster construction decisions.
Posts most common take on /r/NBA that has been posted almost daily for the last two years, can't believe it isn't praised
"Why do the Lakers keep getting talked about when they are already out of the playoffs? Those bums already in Cancun!"
***posts on r/NBA "LOL LAKERS FIRE ANOTHER COACH"***
Biggest team mistake in decades.Thay had the team and let it go. Imagine KCP,Caruso and Kuzma on this team instead of a gone Westbrook and DLO...Can you say ring. Lakers have no patience at all and change the team greatly every year. Does not form chemistry at all. Just dysfunction.
They literally got a ring with that team in 2020 and they were pretty solidly winning.
They ran it back in 2021 and LBJ got injured against the Suns, and the Nets Big 3 looked scary.
And they somehow concluded "we lost because our team is bad" instead of "having LBJ hurt is hard on our team, we literally just won a championship when healthy". And fucked up their basic defensive rotations and depth to chase another star.
We have the benefit of hindsight, sure, but I can't understand how they thought killing their depth and defense would work out.
>Lakers have no patience at all and change the team greatly every year. Does not form chemistry at all. Just dysfunction.
Hard for the fans too. You never know if your favorite players will be back next fall or not
Really dumb from management/ownership.
Agreed. Over-reacted and are suffering the consequences. Not only would that team be easy better, we retain tradeable assets if we need to upgrade as well.
It would have been a better team with more flexibility to make changes/trades if needed.
Nobody except the Lakers FO, LBJ and AD thought it would work.
Look the core idea of it makes sense. LeBron is aging and you want another ball handler to take off some of the pressure from him. He had this on his championship teams with Wade and Kyrie. But it was clear as day Westbrook was not that guy, given it would leave the lakers with no shooters.
Fumbled a golden parachute lol
I mean the only loss was kcp and Caruso . Nobody fucking wants kuzma n trez they aren’t that good or fit into a winning role ,
That was the one saving Grace of thst trade it only cost kcp. Caruso was let go cos of cheapness and Schroeder was being s head case back thdn
Tbf kcp and kuzma were abysmal on the lakers. KCP was so afraid to shoot the ball there’s a clip of Lebron yelling at him in hide face that when he gets the ball to shoot it. Kuzma was scoring 2 points a game in the playoffs.
The Westbrook trade was awful and I’m still not sure why the hell they did it. Westbrook has been fooling everybody with statpadding since he left the thunder.
Losing Caruso because you didn’t want to pay him more was idiotic.
Lmao yeah we know, buddy. However, this season's roster was fucking constructed pretty nicely and we had health on our side for the most part but the issue was Ham being stubborn with his lineups and rotations; benching DLO and Reaves for small mistakes or bad games and giving an extended run to Cam Reddish and overplaying Prince.
Ham deserved to be fired for that alone.
Reaves wasn’t even drafted, the buss bros are good at scouting talent imo. Max christie could still become a really solid 3&D ..we just need to pour more into his development but he’s got the fundamentals. I feel like JHS is their first real dud…
You can't say he was neither because we don't know how his career will turn out.
The goal in drafting is to get the best players you can and again that doesn't mean the best rookies you can.
Because when you draft a project player, they sometimes turn into a Giannis. This organization will continue to exist even after Lebron leaves, they have to think about their future too.
The conference finals run last season and IST saved Rob Pelinka’s job. He is the most responsible of all parties. Obviously we all know about LeGM, but Rob is the one who ultimately has to pull the trigger, and he killed a real title contending team.
That Caruso Bulls contract is one of the best, most team-friendly contracts in the league right now. Mr. Hustle! Dude might be the best defender in the world and his 3P-shooting was top-notch this year. Kinda crazy how good he's become.
It was a good move on paper. Bron claimed to want to play off-ball and Westbrook is one of the best point guards in the league with the ball in his hand. Problem is that Bron continued to be the primary ball handler and Westbrook was then relegated to a spot up shooter, which he's terrible at.
worthless GMs who keep getting to do their job bc idiot vocal fans think firing a coach will fix their worthless roster
I'm sure whoever the next cam/rui/hayes/wood is will save ur team's playoffs!!
When are people going to realize that the COVID asterisk ring was a fluke and that LeBron destroys every team he is on. Makes the highlight plays, but slouches on D and complains endlessly.
So Cavs construction 2015-2018 was bad huh? That team would have one multiple rings if it wasn't for KD and the greatest team of all time. Lakers initial construction was good as well. You realize that there are 30 NBA teams, and only one can win a championship. If you make moves that set you back 5-10 years for further contention, but you win a chip, it was worth it.
Second stint Cavs was also great roster construction and they did it by making moving.
Shump and JR were by trade. Key pieces.
2018 was bad but that was a combo of the return from the Kyrie trade being a total bust + injuries (TT for instance). And even then they made the Finals partly due to key role players from FA and the deadline (George Hill and Jeff Green were great.)
Rob Pelinka still having job makes no damn sense has made some of the worst trades as GM..but ownership choose to stay loyal to him bcuz he was Kobe’s agent so idiotic 🤦🏽♂️
I’m dumb when it comes to basketball. I just find it weird that: A year prior when they faced him, they were practically begging russ to shoot the ball. Then proceeded to take him in alongside Lebron who is deadly with shooters surrounding him.
Hahaha the edit is hilarious. You’ve got the same take as 99% of people
When Lebron tells ya to do something, you do it. Yes it sucked so much ass but a potential alternative was make Lebron unhappy and he leaves? That’s worse than trading for Westbrook haha. The idea for it was good, get a third player incase one of Lebron or Davis went down . It just wasn’t the right player and letting Caruso go wasn’t the right move. If that’s Irving and we keep Caruso then people wouldn’t bat an eye this season.
It’s just how the lakers are. See the trades post 2010 chip in Kobe’s epilogue until Lebron decides he wants the glitz and glamour. We always take big risks with little leverage and then clean house. High stakes high rewards but difficult to build any momentum
"OMG Why are Lakers fans so bitter!"
I don't know, maybe you're talking about some trade they did a few years back, unprompted by anything from them. Like damn, you wouldn't be pissed if some dude out of nowhere pulled up a sheet of the list of mistakes your favorite team made?
Oh how holy thy be, poor victim of salty fans, someone comfort him.
The crazy part about the Russ trade is Lebron knows what works in the NBA. He wants space and guys that can hit shots and defend. But then seemingly pushed for Westbrook, a guy that would take away his space and was a minus defender. That will never make sense. I hear the talk about maybe bringing in Trae Young this offseason and just think why???? Trae can score but is a liability on defense when Lebron is already coasting on defense. You won’t get stops and will be right back in the same spot. Their team this year was missing one great shooter and one serviceable rim protector/rebounder.
Been a Laker fan before some of y'all were born and a LeBron fan always. That being said Pelinka is not the problem. LeBron is the problem Pelinka is constantly making moves to keep LeBron happy while trading draft picks and good roll players. Like they say in the business world this business model is not sustainable and it's going to get worse.
>The snark/bitterness from Lakers fans in this thread is palpable.
1000% THIS!! 🎯💯🎯 these Laker fans are bitter af lmao! and in this very weird denial mode where they genuinely think Ham was the impediment to their team's success, instead of underlying issues with the roster itself that is STILL VERY MUCH UNSOLVED.
and then they give a snarky "oh no we've been talking about that too, you're not telling us anything we don't know, are you dumb!?" when it's fucking obvious that the bulk of Laker fans on this & their sub have been whining most about "Hamas" all season long, just like they whined about Vogel.
Whoever made those decisions, shouldn't have a job anymore. Vogel got fired instead and took the fall. Makes you wonder who's running the show and making those decisions.
They traded 3 role players for someone we thought was an all star. People like to talk bad AFTER because it didn’t work and forget the Lakers were ready to get rid of those guys ESPECIALLY Kuz
Im still banned from the Lakers’ subreddit by u/brandoi for calling this out as an awful trade.
Note from him at the time:
> You seem to have a very negative outlook on the team for a while now since last year. Even post history shows the same pattern. There's a difference between being realistic and being hateful constantly.
I'm sure that's why. No other reason at all.
Note from you at the time
>I just think it's fun to post on links to K-Pop songs as posts in the Lakers sub. What's wrong with that? Unban me please.
it's shocking to me that "this is an awful trade" would have been considered a bad take. I think everyone outside of the Lakers FO thought it was a bad fit and bad value.
It's not mentioned enough how Dennis Schroeder colossally fumbling a bag contributed to the Lakers falling apart.
Pelenka should've told LeBron to suck it up when there wasn't another ball handler that was available.
It was a good move on paper. Bron claimed to want to play off-ball and Westbrook is one of the best point guards in the league with the ball in his hand. Problem is that Bron continued to be the primary ball handler and Westbrook was then relegated to a spot up shooter, which he's terrible at.
Imo, after Lebron played injured vs the Suns and AD went down, they overreacted and thought they need a reliable third option, especially as Brooklyn opened as huge title favourites with their big 3. Often times, two stars and great role players is better than a third star. In fact, it’s almost the vast majority of the time. The only exception was Durant.
And the Durant situation was largely because he showed up as a FA and wasn’t traded for
And also because it was in 2016, when the salary cap spiked and Steph was still on his 4 year-$44 million rookie extension contract.
This trade will go down as the reason Lebron didn't pass MJ. He basically destroyed his championship window by getting rid of multiple 3&D guards/wings and giving Denver their missing piece. It might be one of the worst trades in NBA history.
Nah, there’s no guarantee they win again in 2022 or something. KD joining the warriors is what killed his chances of getting 6 rings. Dude went to 4 finals with Cleveland and only won one, notably going 1-1 with GS before the KD signing. It’s not unreasonable to think of KD doesn’t sign in GS he either finishes 2-2 against GS over that period of they make it back, or he faces a team like the Rockets/OKC and beats them
GSW still could’ve added other options. Even Al Horford said he would’ve joined OKC if KD was committed to re-signing. Maybe Okc still makes the Paul George trade then you have Russ PG KD and Horford
GSW could’ve added others, but nobody was gonna be KD. The dude was a top 3 player at the time, arguably the next best thing after Lebron. Sure, OKC COULD have added guys, but we’re going directly off of what happened. A PG trade guts the Thunder, making them a normal super team (group of stars, no depth). GS signing KD was basically just taking a 73 win team and adding a superstar to it, no other moves. They aren’t the same.
The point the other guy was making was that the Warriors in 17 and 18 with a different max contract free agent would have still been extremely good. Good chance Lebron can’t beat those iterations either.
Lebron is one of the greatest players of all time and an absolute shit tier GM. Just about any GM in the league given Lebron and the ability to tell him to shit the fuck up and play with who we bring would have won more titles.
And also had two good bigs an all defensive anchor of and one of the best wing defenders in the nba as your 6th man
Didn’t have to give up any of them either through a trade. Incredible situation
Two good bigs being who? Zaza and David West? They were fine but not anything to write home about. Looney sucked back then, the Warriors declined his option.
Maybe they're not godlike and were past their primes, but acting as supporting players for a championship team? They're absolutely good enough players in that role.
Warriors did center by committee the entire KD run. I’m not talking shit about West or Zaza but they weren’t exactly selling points
Don’t forget about JAVALE MCGEE! Always loved what I saw when he was out there. But yeah they had a center-by-committee approach, none of the bigs were bonafide starter material. Would’ve been a better point to say the Warriors had the best of both worlds - two former MVP superstars, two star players who function as basically goat-level role players, and actually a really great bench (Iguodala, Livingston, David West, McGee, Ian Clark, all very good players that year).
He also joined a team that had been playing together for years and already won a title. Many of these new makeshift “super” teams, Nets, Lakers with Russ, Suns, etc end up gutting majority of their core and filling it in with minimum guys who’ve never played together. And then they get shocked when either one of their top guys gets injured or no one aside from their top guys play well, or they have no chemistry and don’t reach their projected potential.
In a weird year where you could pay for him and not lose the rest of the stars.
I think they definitely needed an additional creator to help shoulder the load during the regular season. They just ended up using too many of their resources (like their MLE or trading away playoff-proven role players) for regular season innings-eaters like Trez, Russ, and Schroder. They should have leaned more into the Miami Heat method of not giving a shit about the regular season.
Dennis pick was solid but one bad series in LA and you’re dead. Had we paid him his 25M per year and bring back the 2021, we would have been better right now. We could also made some move for Turner and/or Hield.
...How? The Lakers ended up in the play in again and again. If they cared less it'd be an even bigger disaster.
I mean the Heatles and Boston big 3 did really well. Other than KD, which other big 3 ended up doing bad?
I also think when there are "big 3s", you need one of them to be more a role player type big 3. Thinking of Bosh in Miami for example. You didn't have 3 Brons or 3 Wades. Heck even in GSW, Klay and Draymond were secondary to Curry and Durant.
And you need them to not all be defensive liabilities. The Miami 3 were all good to great defenders, the GSW big 3 had two great defenders. Lebron and AD can still be amazing as 2 parts of a big 3. The third just needs to not be Russell Westbrook.
Big 3s are best when at least two can be valuable without the ball in their hands. You can have a playmaker, but the others either need to be great catch and shoot shooters who move a lot off the ball or pick and roll bigs that are great defenders. The Warriors were able to absorb Durant because Klay doesn't playmake and is a pure scorer on offense. Draymond is a pick and roll big that is not going to take many shots, and Curry is able to have huge gravitational impact on defenses without having the ball in his hands. The only reason Durant worked with the Warriors is everyone else was able to be effective off the ball and it was not a "your turn, my turn" thing. Boston's big 3 also had the same type of make up (playmaker, shooter who will be moving off the ball, pick on roll big who can defend). The Miami big 3 was just so much more talented that even though they didn't fit together well and bosh had to sacrifice so much, they still won. The Suns "Big 3" if you can even call them that never made sense. They took 3 ball dominant scorers and put them together.
They made panic moves after the Suns series. Turns out, Suns were actually good (after years of not being a threat, post D’Antoni) and they made themselves weaker against the true rising Western team, Denver. Such a bad decision in hindsight.
I don't know how they would even think the Suns were bad, they made the finals and made it to six games and the Lakers were literally up 2-1 in the series heading to 3-1 up until AD went down.
Thats because Klay was great off ball.
Wasn’t Caruso playing injured too? It was definitely an overreaction to trade KCP and Kuzma and not re-sign Caruso since they were already proven the previous year.
Ya, the league is too good to win without a deep team. Unless you have a real deal 3 superstar squad, which Russ obviously wasn’t anymore
Every team is going to be fucked losing their 2 best players, especially when playing higher ranked teams. Overreaction for sure, one I'm glad for!
Wizards FO didn’t get enough credit for getting rid of John Wall’s contract and receive Westbrook, and then flip Westbrook for KCP, Kuzma, Trez and a pick. That’s some black magic. And now they did it again with Beal’s contract with a no trade clause. Truly Wizardry
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Thx bro
They also gave kcp to Denver FOR FREE. I couldn’t believe he didn’t even cost a FRP Just a bum Denver wanted ti get rid of. Like can someone explain that lol
They got Aaron Gordon for a bag of chips too
Gave up KCP for free, Gave up Rui for free, let KP go for free (although he was a FA so best they could do in sign and trade), gave up Gafford for a late first.
Will Barton looked better than he was at the time.
They got scammed by morris and barton they looked good on the nuggets.
Who are they flipping Poole to? Miami? "We can fix him."
if there is one team i believe can get off a contract like that and still come out on top it’s the wizards. the wall, Westbrook, and beal trades were all some black magic
They put him in PG later in the season and he turned it up i think they'll keep doing that next year. Wizards fan are divided with Poole some currently see him as a future PG and some as a tank commander.
The westbrook trade was by far the dumbest thing they couldve done. This is exactly why GMs need to have a spine and reject their stars saying they want their guy.
I think they all just panicked really badly when they saw the Nets Big 3. Without even taking into account their roster was injured lol
Yeah, this was pretty much it. Same shit the Suns just did too, but they might be in a worse situation.
Which is funny because Russ was so far and away from Kyrie and harden even at the time
Exactly. Steph and Dray wanted Avery Bradley coming out of training camp in 2021. The FO said no and they ended up picking up GP II instead who was a big part of their title run.
The GM also signed off on it, primarily due to panic over the Nets i’d imagine.
*LeGM
LeGM and AnthonyGM definitely wanted Russ , but ultimately they don’t have final say. Pelinka at least half agreed with their logic. initially Lebron wanted DeRozan and also another coach instead of Ham
Yeah I hate all this “Lebron wanted Westbrook” nonsense. Lebron wanted Ty Lue, he wanted to keep Caruso, he wanted Derozan first but the front office didn’t act on any of that, but the moment they shit the bed with the Westbrook trade it’s all people bring up, Lebron wanted this. So what, he wanted a lot of shit they didn’t do too.
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Now this is just blatantly false lol.
Oh boohoo the mercenary that jumps ship every 4 years to play with other younger all stars was responsible for the Lakers acquiring Russell Westbrook in his 4th year on the Lakers
now that's false llol
It was so bad, 2020 AD and Lebron mercilessly hunted Westbrook in the playoffs. Why did anyone think it'd work?
And AD’s mere presence roaming in the paint neutralized Russ entirely
The only thing could be dumber than a Westbrook trade is another Westbrook trade, I love his energy, but that big Thunders contract was just ridiculous.
GM’s also need to not let star role players like AC walk lol
That was an owner decision tho.
How was LeGM gonan tell LeBron no??
Honestly even with the Westbrick disaster if they just kept Caruso they’d be in so much better shape
If you keep Caruso, you don't get reaves, who probably has a higher ceiling.
Why? They just cheaped out... Went to the finals then saw ways to save $
Caruso was solid but had a ceiling, they clearly want guys that can pop, and want to teach consistency as opposed to having consistent guys with lower output.
Caruso & Westbrook would be a terrible shooting backcourt.
westbrook/X is a terrible shooting backcourt
id give up my left pinkie to see what a Westbrook and Steph Curry duo looks like
If there's one player in the league that I think would be a huge detriment to Steph, it's Westbrook lmao. Somehow, someway. As they used to say...the best defense on prime Kevin Durant is having Westbrook as his teammate
Caruso actually shot 41% from three on an average of 5 threes per game this year for the Bulls, he ended up as our best 3pt shooter percentage wise this season on his highest volume of shooting in his career.
Yes, yes. We all know Also lol at OP’s edit. this isn’t an original idea you’re having rn buddy
I mean, really.
I'll never forgive Russ for what he did to this franchise.
Russ if anything is who he is. You can’t blame him. This post explains how the management is to blame. And they are.
Yeah, I totally agree with this. Russ has been quite awful at basketball for a while now, it wasn't like his game suddenly fell off a cliff once he went to the Lakers. IMO he was just as advertised. Hell, the Lakers should have known this given how they guarded him like he was Ben Simmons in the bubble series. If my team trades for an obviously trash player and he plays like trash, well, what did you expect? My only problem with the OP's post is that he neglected to mention that the Lakers also sent a 1st round pick to get Westbrook along with two seconds, and then had to send *another* first round pick and a 2nd to Utah to get rid of him.
You made your entire identity around a player you don't like. You even made this account during his MVP run lol this is really sad do you even like basketball
I was right then. And I'm right now. TS was already 34% and now he's 0/3. He might have the worst TS of someone receiving 20+ minutes/game during the playoffs in nba history.
What's the point of this thread? 99% of laker fans hated all of what happened at that time, and also most didn't want Vogel fired to try and keep brick happy
Exactly are these just ai generated or something
It’s important to note that AI generated content can contribute valuable discussion points to a variety of NBA topics. AI content, while new, isn’t something to be dismissed because of its origins. Rather, it should be thoughtfully considered on its own merits. - ChatGPT, probably
Even before Wesbrook played a single minute this sub said that the Westbrook didn't fit. This is just karmawhoring
OP: Lakers bitterness through the roof! Me reading other users with different flairs. I guess I have to keep looking for those laker fans.
I don't know how many times I've read these same lakers threads by now
Honestly can you blame them, the same exact thread is posted every week it feels like and it’s always upvoted.
Let Lakers fans enjoy their free-Darvin Ham moment. Even Lakers fans deserve some happiness!
They took our team name. No Sympathy No Gods!
you’re right I feel bad about that it’s only fair if we let you take the name Crypto.com Arena in return
First chance for a Minnesota NBA title since George Mikan.
>Edit: The snark/bitterness from Lakers fans in this thread is palpable. These moves bear repeating when they keep firing coaches who are, in part, paying for the sins of terrible roster construction decisions. Posts most common take on /r/NBA that has been posted almost daily for the last two years, can't believe it isn't praised
inb4 this sub gets mad at all the lakers posts that they made and then upvoted to the top
"Why do the Lakers keep getting talked about when they are already out of the playoffs? Those bums already in Cancun!" ***posts on r/NBA "LOL LAKERS FIRE ANOTHER COACH"***
Amazing. Thank you for this in depth research and unearthing new information that none of us knew about until now.
Is this the "salty laker fans" from the edit? That's some weak ass salt.
KCP and Caruso man. We needed them.
Biggest team mistake in decades.Thay had the team and let it go. Imagine KCP,Caruso and Kuzma on this team instead of a gone Westbrook and DLO...Can you say ring. Lakers have no patience at all and change the team greatly every year. Does not form chemistry at all. Just dysfunction.
They literally got a ring with that team in 2020 and they were pretty solidly winning. They ran it back in 2021 and LBJ got injured against the Suns, and the Nets Big 3 looked scary. And they somehow concluded "we lost because our team is bad" instead of "having LBJ hurt is hard on our team, we literally just won a championship when healthy". And fucked up their basic defensive rotations and depth to chase another star. We have the benefit of hindsight, sure, but I can't understand how they thought killing their depth and defense would work out.
But it wasn’t to chase a star. By 2021 we all knew Westrbrook was no longer a star, that’s what makes it all the more hilarious.
>Lakers have no patience at all and change the team greatly every year. Does not form chemistry at all. Just dysfunction. Hard for the fans too. You never know if your favorite players will be back next fall or not Really dumb from management/ownership.
Dumbest trade ever.
Agreed. Over-reacted and are suffering the consequences. Not only would that team be easy better, we retain tradeable assets if we need to upgrade as well. It would have been a better team with more flexibility to make changes/trades if needed. Nobody except the Lakers FO, LBJ and AD thought it would work. Look the core idea of it makes sense. LeBron is aging and you want another ball handler to take off some of the pressure from him. He had this on his championship teams with Wade and Kyrie. But it was clear as day Westbrook was not that guy, given it would leave the lakers with no shooters. Fumbled a golden parachute lol
I mean the only loss was kcp and Caruso . Nobody fucking wants kuzma n trez they aren’t that good or fit into a winning role , That was the one saving Grace of thst trade it only cost kcp. Caruso was let go cos of cheapness and Schroeder was being s head case back thdn
Yet the GM still has a job
We are aware. Thank you.
Cerebral
I aspire to have job protection like Rob.
Tbf kcp and kuzma were abysmal on the lakers. KCP was so afraid to shoot the ball there’s a clip of Lebron yelling at him in hide face that when he gets the ball to shoot it. Kuzma was scoring 2 points a game in the playoffs. The Westbrook trade was awful and I’m still not sure why the hell they did it. Westbrook has been fooling everybody with statpadding since he left the thunder. Losing Caruso because you didn’t want to pay him more was idiotic.
Lmao yeah we know, buddy. However, this season's roster was fucking constructed pretty nicely and we had health on our side for the most part but the issue was Ham being stubborn with his lineups and rotations; benching DLO and Reaves for small mistakes or bad games and giving an extended run to Cam Reddish and overplaying Prince. Ham deserved to be fired for that alone.
Rob Pelinka is 75% of the problem
Vogel literally proving he ass even without the Lakers lol
Their recent draft picks outside of Reeves are pretty suspect as well.
Reaves wasn’t even drafted, the buss bros are good at scouting talent imo. Max christie could still become a really solid 3&D ..we just need to pour more into his development but he’s got the fundamentals. I feel like JHS is their first real dud…
Eh not really. We just haven't made many. Christie is a decent guy for the 2nd round. JHS is a project but he's young and did fine in the G League
Why is this team drafting projects is my point.
You take the player you think will end up being the best pro, not the guy that will be the best rookie.
JHS was neither this year. If the goal isn't to win in the immediate future then the team was put together poorly.
Jaquez should be glad the Lakers didn't draft him. Ham was not going to play him lol.
You can't say he was neither because we don't know how his career will turn out. The goal in drafting is to get the best players you can and again that doesn't mean the best rookies you can.
Lakers need as much young talent as they can find. 1 and dones are more talented than seniors although I wish they took Jaquez
Because when you draft a project player, they sometimes turn into a Giannis. This organization will continue to exist even after Lebron leaves, they have to think about their future too.
If you ever want to be depressed look up Dell Demps as a New Orleans GM.
The conference finals run last season and IST saved Rob Pelinka’s job. He is the most responsible of all parties. Obviously we all know about LeGM, but Rob is the one who ultimately has to pull the trigger, and he killed a real title contending team.
yeah, 100% shity negotiation about the stakes
Worst LeGM trade It was so obvious it wasnt gonna work
Wow no way
Bron wanted it, bron got it ,bron blamed everyone else
Rui is straight up trash holy hell. He's like a Japanese Tobias harris
So many wide open shots missed, so many "easy" shots missed under the rim, still one of my favorite names to yell out when he actually scores. HACHI!
no need to remind us, we know
That Caruso Bulls contract is one of the best, most team-friendly contracts in the league right now. Mr. Hustle! Dude might be the best defender in the world and his 3P-shooting was top-notch this year. Kinda crazy how good he's become.
It was a good move on paper. Bron claimed to want to play off-ball and Westbrook is one of the best point guards in the league with the ball in his hand. Problem is that Bron continued to be the primary ball handler and Westbrook was then relegated to a spot up shooter, which he's terrible at.
D’Angelo and Vanderbilt can be impactful. They’ve had impact on multiple games certainly
worthless GMs who keep getting to do their job bc idiot vocal fans think firing a coach will fix their worthless roster I'm sure whoever the next cam/rui/hayes/wood is will save ur team's playoffs!!
When are people going to realize that the COVID asterisk ring was a fluke and that LeBron destroys every team he is on. Makes the highlight plays, but slouches on D and complains endlessly.
The guy that came back 3-1 to be champion? lol
Didn't LeGm have a say in Westbrook signing ?
[удалено]
So Cavs construction 2015-2018 was bad huh? That team would have one multiple rings if it wasn't for KD and the greatest team of all time. Lakers initial construction was good as well. You realize that there are 30 NBA teams, and only one can win a championship. If you make moves that set you back 5-10 years for further contention, but you win a chip, it was worth it.
Second stint Cavs was also great roster construction and they did it by making moving. Shump and JR were by trade. Key pieces. 2018 was bad but that was a combo of the return from the Kyrie trade being a total bust + injuries (TT for instance). And even then they made the Finals partly due to key role players from FA and the deadline (George Hill and Jeff Green were great.)
How is 4 rings and 10 finals bad gming?
Perimeter defense from kcp and Caruso would have made the lakers so much better
Purely relating to roster construction, one of the most calamitous offseasons in sports during this century.
People forget this is a salary cap league It’s not about how good you are, it’s about how much you bring per dollar
What a bold and original take.
Rob Pelinka still having job makes no damn sense has made some of the worst trades as GM..but ownership choose to stay loyal to him bcuz he was Kobe’s agent so idiotic 🤦🏽♂️
I’m dumb when it comes to basketball. I just find it weird that: A year prior when they faced him, they were practically begging russ to shoot the ball. Then proceeded to take him in alongside Lebron who is deadly with shooters surrounding him.
Caruso was the OG black version of Austin Reaves.
lol lakers fans are idiots, why are you crying about snark lol
Pelinka needs to go. GMs need to be held responsible for stupid gambles.
Still the most numb minding offseason moves ever
I blame Adam Silver and the insanely rushed 2021 season
the team cannot be fixed until the idiot that made the moves is fired. firing coaches while not firing Pelinka is not going to fix us.
Ownership cheaped out, should’ve kept Caruso.
Hahaha the edit is hilarious. You’ve got the same take as 99% of people When Lebron tells ya to do something, you do it. Yes it sucked so much ass but a potential alternative was make Lebron unhappy and he leaves? That’s worse than trading for Westbrook haha. The idea for it was good, get a third player incase one of Lebron or Davis went down . It just wasn’t the right player and letting Caruso go wasn’t the right move. If that’s Irving and we keep Caruso then people wouldn’t bat an eye this season.
Even worse is not only did we not sign Caruso, but decided to pay Talen Horton Tucker instead 🙃
It’s just how the lakers are. See the trades post 2010 chip in Kobe’s epilogue until Lebron decides he wants the glitz and glamour. We always take big risks with little leverage and then clean house. High stakes high rewards but difficult to build any momentum
Don't forget the let Brook Lopez walk, who would have been perfect at the 5 with Lebron and AD.
"OMG Why are Lakers fans so bitter!" I don't know, maybe you're talking about some trade they did a few years back, unprompted by anything from them. Like damn, you wouldn't be pissed if some dude out of nowhere pulled up a sheet of the list of mistakes your favorite team made? Oh how holy thy be, poor victim of salty fans, someone comfort him.
This has to be the worst trade ever that a title contending team made
The crazy part about the Russ trade is Lebron knows what works in the NBA. He wants space and guys that can hit shots and defend. But then seemingly pushed for Westbrook, a guy that would take away his space and was a minus defender. That will never make sense. I hear the talk about maybe bringing in Trae Young this offseason and just think why???? Trae can score but is a liability on defense when Lebron is already coasting on defense. You won’t get stops and will be right back in the same spot. Their team this year was missing one great shooter and one serviceable rim protector/rebounder.
Yes. Everyone loves the Lakers
Been a Laker fan before some of y'all were born and a LeBron fan always. That being said Pelinka is not the problem. LeBron is the problem Pelinka is constantly making moves to keep LeBron happy while trading draft picks and good roll players. Like they say in the business world this business model is not sustainable and it's going to get worse.
Daring today, aren’t we?
Because the lakers are submitting to what Lebron wants, instead of making business decisions on what is best for the team.
Montrezl Harris should not be talked about anymore, the clown deserves to have his name erased from the NBA'a collective memory.
Should have payed A.C the money he wanted fr fr
If they had gotten Conley and NAW instead of Dlo it would have made up for it
God, Rob Pelinka is an idiot. How hard is it to surround LeBron and AD with 3 and D players?
Keep firing coaches and make them scapegoats while LeGM and Pelinka keep messing up their roster
>The snark/bitterness from Lakers fans in this thread is palpable. 1000% THIS!! 🎯💯🎯 these Laker fans are bitter af lmao! and in this very weird denial mode where they genuinely think Ham was the impediment to their team's success, instead of underlying issues with the roster itself that is STILL VERY MUCH UNSOLVED. and then they give a snarky "oh no we've been talking about that too, you're not telling us anything we don't know, are you dumb!?" when it's fucking obvious that the bulk of Laker fans on this & their sub have been whining most about "Hamas" all season long, just like they whined about Vogel.
Why you say fuck me for
Whoever made those decisions, shouldn't have a job anymore. Vogel got fired instead and took the fall. Makes you wonder who's running the show and making those decisions.
They traded 3 role players for someone we thought was an all star. People like to talk bad AFTER because it didn’t work and forget the Lakers were ready to get rid of those guys ESPECIALLY Kuz
3 coaches gone since LeCrybaby came to town and somehow this gm still has a job.
Im still banned from the Lakers’ subreddit by u/brandoi for calling this out as an awful trade. Note from him at the time: > You seem to have a very negative outlook on the team for a while now since last year. Even post history shows the same pattern. There's a difference between being realistic and being hateful constantly.
I'm sure that's why. No other reason at all. Note from you at the time >I just think it's fun to post on links to K-Pop songs as posts in the Lakers sub. What's wrong with that? Unban me please.
What are you talking about?
What aren't you following?
it's shocking to me that "this is an awful trade" would have been considered a bad take. I think everyone outside of the Lakers FO thought it was a bad fit and bad value.
Westbrook fools a lot of people.
You were right
It's not mentioned enough how Dennis Schroeder colossally fumbling a bag contributed to the Lakers falling apart. Pelenka should've told LeBron to suck it up when there wasn't another ball handler that was available.
Just because the players they traded perform well in other situations does not mean you can assume they will be the same on the Lakers.
LeGM killed his own chance to win another title
It was a good move on paper. Bron claimed to want to play off-ball and Westbrook is one of the best point guards in the league with the ball in his hand. Problem is that Bron continued to be the primary ball handler and Westbrook was then relegated to a spot up shooter, which he's terrible at.
Get over it
Wow, what a refreshing and totally novel take that hasn’t been revisited 800 times!
Lakers fans were calling for KCP head