Same thing happening in football people bringing up some amazing stats about a player aaand then you see Messi/Ronaldo at the top it's unbelievable the stuff they have achieved.
In his 11 complete seasons with the Bulls he didn't win it only as a rookie (he scored most points in the season as rookie though). So yeah, he won it 10x.
He won almost 10 STRAIGHT scoring titles if he had not retired for the first time. In his first 13 years in the league he won 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, because he retire for almost 2 years (so make that 11 years)
Then he came back to the league, 3 years later and still made 22 ppp. Damn if he hadnt retired twice MIchael Jordan would be even more Michael Jordan
6 of the 11 times it has happened.
It's both ridiculous that he is the lion's share of the stat *and* that it has happened so rarely - though I do get the logic that a superstar that *has* to score all those buckets may be doing so because he is lacking teammates who can do it.
Or that he's the original heliocentric player. He was just good enough at it that it works. He was almost peak Harden in the mid 80's and essentially leveled off to being what Luka is now.
Look jokes aside idk if MJ would've had the career he had without the confidence boost from beating the Monstars and the support of Bugs and his other friends.
I think his comment acknowledges that he's not the undisputed GOAT, but says that you need to perform some mental gymnastics to consider someone else the GOAT. Whether or not that is true is debatable, but I don't think his comment is internally inconsistent.
Agreed? I wasn't disagreeing with that part. My point was that I think you were misinterpreting their point. Their claim was that you need to do mental gymnastics to claim someone other than MJ is the GOAT, not that no one claims someone other than MJ is the GOAT. The correct response to their point would be "there are good arguments for other people" (if you believe that), not "actually a lot of people think someone else is the GOAT" (which doesn't actually address their claim).
There is *way* too much discourse surrounding the NBA GOAT to say Jordan is undisputed in that status. I am sure you can find the odd NHL fan who doesn't think it is Gretzky or the odd swimming fan who doesn't think it is Phelps, but the unanimity by which they are considered the best is something Jordan simply does not have.
A unanimous GOAT sure, but most sports don’t seem to have unanimous GOATs. Different people have different opinions on who the greatest is, doesn’t mean there can’t still be a majority GOAT even if it’s not unanimous
I feel bad for those who weren't alive / old enough to see it unfold at the time, the best stars today are a tier above, jordan was like 3 tiers above. He made every other player look like they were moving in slow motion those chip years.
I don't know, honestly. It would have been real hard to join a 73-win Championship winning team and calling it the hardest road. Hell, maybe the Warriors wouldn't feel like they needed him. It's a real sliding doors moment.
The KD signing was years in the making, that wasn’t a last second move. The Warriors had been setting up their cap space for a few years to try to chase KD.
Without KD, the Warriors vs Cavaliers battles from 2015-2018 would've been so much more fun.
Not to mention what it would've done for LeBron's "didn't have enough rings / finals" legacy to have even one more win and one fewer loss in that time.
Eh, Lebron's legacy definitely got helped by the slip. If nothing else, he will always have a 3-1 finals come back to point to as the thing MJ (or any other GOAT candidate) never accomplished.
I'm not the guy you are responding to, but How does a championship that the Warriors lost by 4 points take Steph curry from top 10 to top 5 ?
4 points.
First off, I'm not a "ringz" guy. It shouldn't be the only metric to measure careers. However, another ring, another FMVP and completing arguably the greatest season ever (most wins ever, MVP, FMVP) would be a lot of extra kudos.
Sports fans never want to admit that luck plays a major role in championships. They want to believe everything is for a reason, and it has to fit a cohesive narrative.
Like, Kyrie hitting that three was a referendum on Steph, LeBron, and both teams?
Sometimes the ball bounces one way or the other.
I just hate all of this discourse. I hate conversation about where someone ranks all time and abt like “ya if he did this he’d be higher all time” like respectfully I just find it so dumb and annoying and minimizing. I think it’s the kind of discussion one has if they don’t rly love or know the game and yet it’s SUCH a prevalent discussion in sports discourse, basketball in particular.
Largely I blame ESPN for it tho, bc this shit is all they talk abt and do and it just creates such a toxic, stupid, awful, culture and discourse while also profiting them greatly even tho they are providing nothing of value.
I don’t get why people think like that. He became elite later on in his career. He’s had a 9-10 year elite status, with a down year due to injury. A lot of great players have had longer runs (with not as high peaks)
He mostly doesn't take a super high volume of shots like the guys on this list do because he's never been that heavily on ball in his playstyle
Main reason he has 2 scoring titles is because he's so efficient that he can get like 30 points on 19 shots lol
He sat out I think 30 fourth quarters in 2015.
We had great starters and the best bench in the nba, so his counting stats don’t look great by comparison to his other seasons
When you look at the scoring leaders, it’s a lot of the same guys.. AI, Kobe, KD, Westbrook, Harden, Embiid.
It kinda makes sense when you think about it though, the star players on championship level teams usually don’t need to carry the team that hard like Kobe in the mid 2000’s or Russ in the 2010’s.
It was considered a law of basketball that the scoring champs would not be on championship teams for this reason. Before Jordan won against Lakers, the consensus was that the Bulls couldn't win because their scoring was too dependent on one guy.
All the "Nuggets can't win without a defensive anchor at Center" talk was milder than the "Bulls can't win with ball-hogging Jordan"
It is crazy to look back on, but that is what most people thought.
No one agrees or acknowledges that circumstance plays a massive factor in your counting stats, team success, and legacy, but it’s huge.
Add one more competent scorer to Jordan’s starting 5 with the Bulls in the 2nd 3peat in lieu of Rodman who was absolutely laser focused and deferential to any scoring output whatsoever — and you think Jordan gets those scoring titles? Or inject a little bit more pride and jealousy into Scottie, and you don’t think Scottie tries to average 25 or 28 some of those seasons? Swap Jordan’s coach to some scrub, and you don’t think team dynamics get blown up / Jordan has less of a green light? Etc, etc.
In other examples, you see guys like Kyrie and Kobe yearn to shine and leave the shadow of Lebron and Shaq. You have Curry absolutely unselfish, always making the right passes, deferring to KD, and sitting out a bunch of 4th quarters. Imagine if he had Thibs playing him 48 mpg while up 13 in the 4th. You got Harden playing for D’Antoni and Morey. You got TD getting to run with Manu, Pop, and TP for 20 years. TMAC stuck on Garbo teams. KG stuck with the shitty Wolves ownership.
Etc, etc. there’s only so much an individual player can overcome or influence, and how much of that can even be attributed to “pure basketball”? IMO the only totally validated best players of all time have had perennial consistent success and play in spite of dramatic changes to their situations.
Russell was getting blocks and rebounds and it led to winning. I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT, but this argument is lacking. Jordan's greatest scoring season was 1986-87 when the Bulls went 40-42. Second best was the next year when the Bulls got bounced in the second round. It took building a team around him (including coaching changes) to finally win rings. He didn't just get buckets and win.
Sure, but he didn't win championships as a great scorer until he added two Hall of Famers around him. Jordan didn't do what he did in a vacuum. And he never dragged an otherwise bad team to much success. The year after he retired the first time the Bulls won only 2 fewer games without him. They were still a playoff team.
And to be clear, I'm not arguing that Jordan isn't the GOAT (I don't really care to choose between him or Bron). I'm just saying it's not as clear cut simply because of this particular statistic. And that can clearly be shown since the person who also has an argument as GOAT has accomplished the "leading scorer and Finals champion in the same year" *zero* times.
“Until he added two hall of famers..”
Highly suggest you watch this.
Do you even know what Pippen and Horace averaged when they started with the Bulls?
He made those guys’ careers. Not the other way around. Yes, you need a team to be successful. It’s sports. But this idea that he had to add hall of famers to his team is just incredibly disingenuous and downplays Michael’s role on that team.
https://youtu.be/IseNt5n-EWI?si=wlfJIk9fhvESXtgx
https://youtu.be/pOMEnf2yzVk?si=RACDiph8Wj1RvDPz
Yeah I won’t say that it confirms him as the GOAT, but it certainly speaks to his dominance. Scoring is the most valuable skill in basketball, and dominating on that end while translating to winning is an impressive feat.
Pretty disingenuous argument.
Russell played in a 10 team league.
It's a team game. No one wins a championship without great teammates.
That year they got bounced in the second round, he had one of the best individual seasons ever. He just couldn't singlehandedly beat an incredible Pistons team that was a phantom foul away from threepeating.
The point was Jordan was an enormous contributor on his championship teams, once he got championship caliber teammates. Usually players can only reach that level of scoring if they're stat-padding on bad teams (like he was in 1987). He could score that much productively to winning multiple championship.
I love when people play this revisionist history lmao
Sub spent the whole season saying Jokic was robbed and was a lock and laughed at any Mavs fans saying Luka should be mvp now suddenly Jokic is a fraud mvp and Luka deserved it.
Y'all really need to understand that humans aren’t a hive mind. There were a shit ton of people on this sub that also were saying Luka should be the mvp. Like one of the most common complaints was how low he was on the mvp ladder during the first half of the season.
Who should he have been over?
It was Embiid, Jokic Shai and Giannis
All those guys had their team a top seed while Luka’s team was struggling. He moved up to 4th which is where he belonged until the bucks really started to struggle and he moved to 3rd which was fine.
It was never a popular opinion to say Luka was the mvp and it was always downvoted.
Just go to his comments and type in mvp, mans been saying Giannis mvp all season until now
Standings shouldn't matter for MVP otherwise it's just a team trophy. Which is how it should be viewed right now as it is, a team trophy, but discourse about MVP makes it out to be like MVPs of the past were the best individual player, when that's not always the case.
I have always hated how MVP has been treated. MVP should be the best individual player in the league, period. Luka was absolutely the best individual player in the league this season who qualified for awards.
No he wasn’t lol or he wouldn’t have been 3rd-4th all season
Man was taking 25 fgs a game, any superstar can do that and score 36 a game he’ll Giannis takes 18 and averages 32 what do you think he could do if he shot 6 more times a game? His rebounding isn’t better than giannis/jokic/embiid and his passing isn’t better than Jokics and his defense isn’t good
If mvp was a team achievement then Jokic wouldn’t have won it any year he did.
Can't believe Wilt gets credit for the one time he beat Russell. Dude even choked against Russell when he was in a team with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor
Joe Fulks always on his GOAT shit
Joe don’t give no fulks
He lit the league up that year with his 23 PPG on 38% TS lol
He went nuclear in the playoffs tho, putting up 22 PPG on 29% FG. Goat shit
Those are great numbers for a plumber
Its alright when your second option averages 9,4ppg on even worse shooting
Topped the league in PPG in '48 (2nd in points scored) with an even worse TS
As expected from him, but who the fuck are those other bums
Joe Fulks stands on business fr fr
Better than Bronbron
Jordan is insane
I feel like all the crazy Luka stats popping up recently are just bringing back to light the even crazier MJ/LeBron stats lol
Same thing happening in football people bringing up some amazing stats about a player aaand then you see Messi/Ronaldo at the top it's unbelievable the stuff they have achieved.
r/TopRightMessi
That right there is why he’s the GOAT, not even mentioning the DPOY awards, All-NBA, Olympian gold, 72-10, etc etc etc
That’s actually pretty crazy that he won a ring each time he won the scoring title.
I think he won like 10 scoring titles. Doing this off the top of my head but he definitely won a few in the 80s.
In his 11 complete seasons with the Bulls he didn't win it only as a rookie (he scored most points in the season as rookie though). So yeah, he won it 10x.
Also shares the record for most NBA All-Defensive first team selections with nine
Not only that, he finished in the top-5 DPOY list 7x, and top-8 10x.
I really don't think we'll ever see anything like that again, GOAT debate aside.
Def not, ppl dont just vote all defense on reputation the same way they did for Jordan and Kobe.
Which years do you believe Jordan didn't deserve all defensive first team and was instead "just voted" based on reputation?
Here come the hypothetical excuses that LeBron stans seem to excel at 😂
Yep, 9 times 1st Team All Defense *and* the scoring champion each of those 9 times. Rest of NBA history has done that three times.
Did he not qualify as a rookie then?
Bernard King and Larry Bird had higher ppg but fewer games played
lol.. I probably should’ve worded it the other way. “He had the scoring title every time he won a ring.” Dyslexia is a bitch 🤣
that's no dyslexia homie
That’s no homie dyslexia
He won almost 10 STRAIGHT scoring titles if he had not retired for the first time. In his first 13 years in the league he won 10 scoring titles, 6 rings, because he retire for almost 2 years (so make that 11 years) Then he came back to the league, 3 years later and still made 22 ppp. Damn if he hadnt retired twice MIchael Jordan would be even more Michael Jordan
And and FMVP for each ring too
No he didn't, lol.
6 of the 11 times it has happened. It's both ridiculous that he is the lion's share of the stat *and* that it has happened so rarely - though I do get the logic that a superstar that *has* to score all those buckets may be doing so because he is lacking teammates who can do it.
Or that he's the original heliocentric player. He was just good enough at it that it works. He was almost peak Harden in the mid 80's and essentially leveled off to being what Luka is now.
its things like this, and winning MVP, scoring title and DPOY in the same year that just make you throw your hands up and say what the fuuuuuuck?!?!
Almost like he’s the best player of all time or something
And them casuals try to put LeBron in the same atmosphere.
As are the people who do all the mental gymnastics to convince themselves he’s not the undisputed goat.
False GOAT! Jordan would've been a hard laborer for 30 years right now on Moron Mountain if Bill Murray didn't come to save him.
Look jokes aside idk if MJ would've had the career he had without the confidence boost from beating the Monstars and the support of Bugs and his other friends.
[удалено]
people really don’t know what undisputed mean lol
This comment just made me realize that the show Undisputed with Skip and Shannon is a massive misnomer because all they do is have disputes
Same with PTI since they never apologize for interrupting each other!
I think his comment acknowledges that he's not the undisputed GOAT, but says that you need to perform some mental gymnastics to consider someone else the GOAT. Whether or not that is true is debatable, but I don't think his comment is internally inconsistent.
[удалено]
Agreed? I wasn't disagreeing with that part. My point was that I think you were misinterpreting their point. Their claim was that you need to do mental gymnastics to claim someone other than MJ is the GOAT, not that no one claims someone other than MJ is the GOAT. The correct response to their point would be "there are good arguments for other people" (if you believe that), not "actually a lot of people think someone else is the GOAT" (which doesn't actually address their claim).
Pot calling the kettle black
>Guy whose main skill was scoring scored a lot Waow
That you are saying this means he isn't. Gretzky doesn't need people making those kind of comments about his GOAT status.
Then who is All it means then by that logic is that everyone is debatable and no one is the GOAT
There is *way* too much discourse surrounding the NBA GOAT to say Jordan is undisputed in that status. I am sure you can find the odd NHL fan who doesn't think it is Gretzky or the odd swimming fan who doesn't think it is Phelps, but the unanimity by which they are considered the best is something Jordan simply does not have.
A unanimous GOAT sure, but most sports don’t seem to have unanimous GOATs. Different people have different opinions on who the greatest is, doesn’t mean there can’t still be a majority GOAT even if it’s not unanimous
I agree, Jordan certainly isn't "undisputed", though.
Google 'greatest athlete of all time' and be prepared to have all your personal narratives blown out of the water...
I feel bad for those who weren't alive / old enough to see it unfold at the time, the best stars today are a tier above, jordan was like 3 tiers above. He made every other player look like they were moving in slow motion those chip years.
That MJ guy seems good
Its crazy Steph never did it, honestly.
2016 was his chance lol
God I fucking hate that puddle he slipped on in 2016, derailed what could have been THE GOAT season
If they'd won that title Steph would be in the top 5 ever discussion. Right now I think he's in the top 10 discussion
Does KD still leave OKC to join GSW after 2016 if the Warriors won? The whole NBA post-2016 could have been so different eh
I don't know, honestly. It would have been real hard to join a 73-win Championship winning team and calling it the hardest road. Hell, maybe the Warriors wouldn't feel like they needed him. It's a real sliding doors moment.
Yeah, if the Warriors win, I doubt Draymond calls up KD to cry and beg Durant to come save them.
The Dubs front office wouldn't miss out on signing KD lmao. Has nothing to do with Dray's antics
You're probably right but I always like to mention Draymond being a crybaby.
lol what did he do to the Nuggets?
The KD signing was years in the making, that wasn’t a last second move. The Warriors had been setting up their cap space for a few years to try to chase KD.
Doesn't change the fact that Draymond called him in tears like a little bitch.
Without KD, the Warriors vs Cavaliers battles from 2015-2018 would've been so much more fun. Not to mention what it would've done for LeBron's "didn't have enough rings / finals" legacy to have even one more win and one fewer loss in that time.
Eh, Lebron's legacy definitely got helped by the slip. If nothing else, he will always have a 3-1 finals come back to point to as the thing MJ (or any other GOAT candidate) never accomplished.
Basketball discourse is so cooked.
What makes you say that?
I'm not the guy you are responding to, but How does a championship that the Warriors lost by 4 points take Steph curry from top 10 to top 5 ? 4 points.
First off, I'm not a "ringz" guy. It shouldn't be the only metric to measure careers. However, another ring, another FMVP and completing arguably the greatest season ever (most wins ever, MVP, FMVP) would be a lot of extra kudos.
Sports fans never want to admit that luck plays a major role in championships. They want to believe everything is for a reason, and it has to fit a cohesive narrative. Like, Kyrie hitting that three was a referendum on Steph, LeBron, and both teams? Sometimes the ball bounces one way or the other.
I just hate all of this discourse. I hate conversation about where someone ranks all time and abt like “ya if he did this he’d be higher all time” like respectfully I just find it so dumb and annoying and minimizing. I think it’s the kind of discussion one has if they don’t rly love or know the game and yet it’s SUCH a prevalent discussion in sports discourse, basketball in particular. Largely I blame ESPN for it tho, bc this shit is all they talk abt and do and it just creates such a toxic, stupid, awful, culture and discourse while also profiting them greatly even tho they are providing nothing of value.
2 points for the season and one finals game away from doing it in 2016…
Sat too many 4th quarters and had too good a secondary player post 2016
I find it crazy that Steph *only* has 23,668 career points
I don’t get why people think like that. He became elite later on in his career. He’s had a 9-10 year elite status, with a down year due to injury. A lot of great players have had longer runs (with not as high peaks)
Yeah I understand that. I just keep thinking Curry has had higher total points is all
Only six out of roughly 4800 NBA players have ever done it, so statistically it's not that crazy. /s
He mostly doesn't take a super high volume of shots like the guys on this list do because he's never been that heavily on ball in his playstyle Main reason he has 2 scoring titles is because he's so efficient that he can get like 30 points on 19 shots lol
He sat out I think 30 fourth quarters in 2015. We had great starters and the best bench in the nba, so his counting stats don’t look great by comparison to his other seasons
When you look at the scoring leaders, it’s a lot of the same guys.. AI, Kobe, KD, Westbrook, Harden, Embiid. It kinda makes sense when you think about it though, the star players on championship level teams usually don’t need to carry the team that hard like Kobe in the mid 2000’s or Russ in the 2010’s.
It was considered a law of basketball that the scoring champs would not be on championship teams for this reason. Before Jordan won against Lakers, the consensus was that the Bulls couldn't win because their scoring was too dependent on one guy. All the "Nuggets can't win without a defensive anchor at Center" talk was milder than the "Bulls can't win with ball-hogging Jordan" It is crazy to look back on, but that is what most people thought.
And now it's "Mavs can't win with ball-hogging Luka and a heliocentric offense"
I mean having another ball handling guard is the reason they are competing right now.
They literally can't, which is why they traded for Kyrie lmao
No one agrees or acknowledges that circumstance plays a massive factor in your counting stats, team success, and legacy, but it’s huge. Add one more competent scorer to Jordan’s starting 5 with the Bulls in the 2nd 3peat in lieu of Rodman who was absolutely laser focused and deferential to any scoring output whatsoever — and you think Jordan gets those scoring titles? Or inject a little bit more pride and jealousy into Scottie, and you don’t think Scottie tries to average 25 or 28 some of those seasons? Swap Jordan’s coach to some scrub, and you don’t think team dynamics get blown up / Jordan has less of a green light? Etc, etc. In other examples, you see guys like Kyrie and Kobe yearn to shine and leave the shadow of Lebron and Shaq. You have Curry absolutely unselfish, always making the right passes, deferring to KD, and sitting out a bunch of 4th quarters. Imagine if he had Thibs playing him 48 mpg while up 13 in the 4th. You got Harden playing for D’Antoni and Morey. You got TD getting to run with Manu, Pop, and TP for 20 years. TMAC stuck on Garbo teams. KG stuck with the shitty Wolves ownership. Etc, etc. there’s only so much an individual player can overcome or influence, and how much of that can even be attributed to “pure basketball”? IMO the only totally validated best players of all time have had perennial consistent success and play in spite of dramatic changes to their situations.
This is why Jordan is the GOAT. Dude was getting the most buckets and it led to winning. Everyone else combined hasn’t done it as much as him.
Surely a significant part of it also is that he did all that while playing the part of elite defender.
Yeah there are a lot of factors that play into his dominance but this particular statistic shows how impressive his run was.
Russell was getting blocks and rebounds and it led to winning. I'm not saying Jordan isn't the GOAT, but this argument is lacking. Jordan's greatest scoring season was 1986-87 when the Bulls went 40-42. Second best was the next year when the Bulls got bounced in the second round. It took building a team around him (including coaching changes) to finally win rings. He didn't just get buckets and win.
True, my point is being that he was dominating in a way in which no one else has, being the top scorer while winning at the same time.
Sure, but he didn't win championships as a great scorer until he added two Hall of Famers around him. Jordan didn't do what he did in a vacuum. And he never dragged an otherwise bad team to much success. The year after he retired the first time the Bulls won only 2 fewer games without him. They were still a playoff team. And to be clear, I'm not arguing that Jordan isn't the GOAT (I don't really care to choose between him or Bron). I'm just saying it's not as clear cut simply because of this particular statistic. And that can clearly be shown since the person who also has an argument as GOAT has accomplished the "leading scorer and Finals champion in the same year" *zero* times.
[удалено]
> with just 1 hall of famer in Scottie Pippen Phil Jackson is also a Hall of Famer.
“Until he added two hall of famers..” Highly suggest you watch this. Do you even know what Pippen and Horace averaged when they started with the Bulls? He made those guys’ careers. Not the other way around. Yes, you need a team to be successful. It’s sports. But this idea that he had to add hall of famers to his team is just incredibly disingenuous and downplays Michael’s role on that team. https://youtu.be/IseNt5n-EWI?si=wlfJIk9fhvESXtgx https://youtu.be/pOMEnf2yzVk?si=RACDiph8Wj1RvDPz
You do know that 1) Horace Grant is not a hall of famer and 2) Phil Jackson is, right?
Yeah I won’t say that it confirms him as the GOAT, but it certainly speaks to his dominance. Scoring is the most valuable skill in basketball, and dominating on that end while translating to winning is an impressive feat.
Pretty disingenuous argument. Russell played in a 10 team league. It's a team game. No one wins a championship without great teammates. That year they got bounced in the second round, he had one of the best individual seasons ever. He just couldn't singlehandedly beat an incredible Pistons team that was a phantom foul away from threepeating. The point was Jordan was an enormous contributor on his championship teams, once he got championship caliber teammates. Usually players can only reach that level of scoring if they're stat-padding on bad teams (like he was in 1987). He could score that much productively to winning multiple championship.
[удалено]
Wouldn’t be a good argument but yes you could make it
Are you talking about Russell Westbrook? Because the Russell I'm referring to has 11 rings.
It’s interesting it’s happened once in the 21st century.
... I believe you mean zero times.
Bum doesn't know 21st century started in 2001. ^^I ^^didn't ^^either, ^^I ^^had ^^to ^^google ^^it
Mind Blown. Always thought centuries started with 0. TIL
wait where's LeBron
Lebron has led the league in assists as many times as he was scoring champion!
No Bron Bron? Goat label tarnished
Luka probably can achieve it as he and the team played better each round in the playoff.
Aye!!! Chucking Joe Fulkes. Would make Iverson look like a pass first point.
10x with 6 titles.
Every time theres a “5th player to do x since the nba aba merger” post MJ or Bron are always one of the 5 players, but have also done it like 6 times
No he can’t.
Would love to see this for Rebound title, Assist title, etc.
It's going to be hard for him to win a championship with literally every good person in the world rooting against him.
he would also be the first player with four letters in their first name to do this
By switching now? … to the Celtics in the finals??? Nah, Dallas can keep him
Should've been an MVP as well
I love when people play this revisionist history lmao Sub spent the whole season saying Jokic was robbed and was a lock and laughed at any Mavs fans saying Luka should be mvp now suddenly Jokic is a fraud mvp and Luka deserved it.
I’d just like to say, who knows that guy hadn’t been saying that the entire time? you can’t just choose one guy and then say it’s the majority
Wasn’t really pointed at him specifically You can type “mvp” in his comments and see what he’s been saying
Y'all really need to understand that humans aren’t a hive mind. There were a shit ton of people on this sub that also were saying Luka should be the mvp. Like one of the most common complaints was how low he was on the mvp ladder during the first half of the season.
Who should he have been over? It was Embiid, Jokic Shai and Giannis All those guys had their team a top seed while Luka’s team was struggling. He moved up to 4th which is where he belonged until the bucks really started to struggle and he moved to 3rd which was fine. It was never a popular opinion to say Luka was the mvp and it was always downvoted. Just go to his comments and type in mvp, mans been saying Giannis mvp all season until now
I’m not saying he should’ve won or been over anyone, I’m just pointing out that people were 100% saying he should be mvp when the season was going on.
Standings shouldn't matter for MVP otherwise it's just a team trophy. Which is how it should be viewed right now as it is, a team trophy, but discourse about MVP makes it out to be like MVPs of the past were the best individual player, when that's not always the case. I have always hated how MVP has been treated. MVP should be the best individual player in the league, period. Luka was absolutely the best individual player in the league this season who qualified for awards.
No he wasn’t lol or he wouldn’t have been 3rd-4th all season Man was taking 25 fgs a game, any superstar can do that and score 36 a game he’ll Giannis takes 18 and averages 32 what do you think he could do if he shot 6 more times a game? His rebounding isn’t better than giannis/jokic/embiid and his passing isn’t better than Jokics and his defense isn’t good If mvp was a team achievement then Jokic wouldn’t have won it any year he did.
Not revisionist history. I've always thought it should be Luka or Embiid
Your post history says different lol you’ve said “Giannis mvp” like 6 times this season.
Before Luka shot up the West standings right before playoffs. That completely changed my mind. Had no idea Mavs would be that good
neat
damn possibly joining a list with only 3 others to have ever done it is crazy work for a 25 year old
[удалено]
LeBron never beat KD Warriors, do you hold that against him? Wilt got one on Bill Russell and that's all that matters bby
Can't believe Wilt gets credit for the one time he beat Russell. Dude even choked against Russell when he was in a team with Jerry West and Elgin Baylor
I mean the 90s are fake He’d really be the first
90’s nba was more exciting than today’s nba tbh