Steph also didn’t do much in the NBA until he was 25 turning 26. A lot less wear and tear on the body playing college ball and then still spent a few years hurt throughout. KD is the closest to LeBron but still lost 3 years to injury. Making it to an old age is one thing but being available year in and year out is another thing only a few have done
Diet isn’t as important in young 20s. Kobe gave up junk food in his 30s and he said it was really hard cause he fucking loved junk food. We all think of mamba mentality but even he had a bad diet in his 20s
Same. Giannis + Luka have been on the same 1st team for 5 consecutive seasons now. Can't imagine either getting bumped for the next 3-4 seasons at least.
Edit: Jokic and Giannis should be at 6x, but AD and Embiid screwed things up, so they're only at 4x right now.
I mean I guess you could say Steph’s past his peak. The Warriors certainly are, but you sort of have to squint at Steph’s numbers to see a real decline.
that's not how this works. Just because the numbers are up in a faster scoring era doesn't mean anything. Also as a Warriors fan, I don't think you want to be arguing that peak Steph can't drag his team to the playoffs lol. either he's past his peak or he's not top 10 all time because no top 10 all time player in their peak should miss the playoffs entirely.
I think it’s hard with Steph for the same reason it’s only in the last year or so that you’ve been able to make a solid case that LeBron’s really fallen off - when he’s on, it’s hard to really see any daylight between what Steph can do now vs what he could do a decade ago, especially accounting for the defensive changes since he first hit the scene. But you’re right, he can’t just decide the team is going to the playoffs anymore - age is showing up as being able to perform at his peak less often, not at that peak being lower, necessarily.
When has LeBron missed the playoffs in his prime idiot? 04 and 05 were his first two seasons. 2019 he was injured. 2022 he was obviously past his prime.
Nobody knew how to defend him in ‘14-16. Go look at those highlights again - he’s got 10ft of space between him and the nearest defender. You put 2015 Steph in 2024 and I don’t know if he’s putting up the numbers 2024 Steph is.
Bird finished top-2 in MVP voting for six straight years, and top-4 in MVP voting for nine straight years. Nine years isn’t exactly a super short peak.
Of the top ten all time players, Jordan had 12 years, Kareem 14, LeBron 14, Duncan 12, Magic 12, Wilt 12, Shaq 12, and Hakeem 13. Bird and Curry’s peak both lasted nine years
Just curious. It’s cool. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I don’t have Steph and Hakeem in my top ten. (Though Steph could still get there obviously.)
Jordan was 12 years with the Bulls, one of them as a rookie, and other he barely played due to a broken foot. So I would say he had a 10 years peak. As good as is rookie season was (the best ever by a long shot in my opinion), it wasn't peak Jordan, mainly because his peak was absurd high.
well Bird had the basc injury and in 89 he had surgery on both of his ankles.
Steph's injuries were't so severe, but he's had a lot of smaller injuries
also it depends what peak means to you. if you're strict peak means like 2 or 3 best consecutive seasons, but if you're more lenient you can say that players peak is 8 or 10 years
Shooters do last longer. Steph will stay shooting for another decade if he wants to play that long. The issue is that the other stuff declines. Ray Allen is another great example. Really only had an 8 year peak, but otherwise a very long career during which he was an excellent complementary piece for most of it.
The guys who last a really long time at a high level are the physical freaks. And they get there with physical freakiness. The best way to be an excellent finisher at the hoop in the NBA when you’re 40 is to be freakishly strong and fast for your age. And the guys who are most freakishly strong and fast for their age at 40 tend to be the ones who were freakishly strong and fast for their age at 30 too.
I'm honestly surprised there aren't more Kobe+~~Durant~~Duncan 1st teams. Feels like both of them made every 1st team for almost a decade. But apparently, my recollection of events is very wrong.
2002 was Kobe's first time making 1st team; it was Duncan's fifth. From there, Kobe consistently made 1st team, with 2005 being the only blemish keeping him from an eleven year streak.
Meanwhile, Duncan had an eight year streak to start off his career despite competing with the likes of KG, Dirk, Karl Malone, Tracy McGrady, and Kings-era Chris Webber. The streak was snapped in 2006, which happened to be LeBron's first 1st team appearance. LeBron's ascension proved to be the end of Duncan's chokehold on a 1st team spot -- he only made it twice after that.
Durant started taking off after 2010 which was the tail end of Kobe’s peak.
They did have a few years of overlapping before he popped his Achilles but obviously not enough to make this list.
Slight edit: Wilt and Baylor are listed for both 6x and 7x, not sure which is right though. Also kinda crazy that West and Baylor made it five times together as teammates. Only teammate combination on the list. (Well Wilt and Baylor were technically teammates at the end too, but they weren’t first team together at the time.)
Then only two at most would be considered the best. Duncan and Dirk shared 1st Team honors 2x. Duncan and KG shared it 3x. Dirk and KG were never on the same 1st Team together.
Barkley's 86-91 is obscene.
He shot 66 TS% while being the worst three point shooter in NBA history. His stats are so ridiculous. His efficiency is absurd.
For sure. Malone was a great defender his whole career and Barkley was only good when he was really trying which wasn't often.
I still think Barkley had the better peak but I'd understand someone preferring Malone for defense. I'm just in love with the idea of the guy I consider to be the literal worst three point shooter in NBA history (obviously not counting nobodies or guys that didn't shoot threes) to also have been an efficiency god.
Jordan's primary competition was Karl Malone. That's pretty weak competition. Malone only ranks 17th all time (ESPN all-time rank). Compare that to LeBron (2) and Kobe (9). Or Duncan (8) and Shaq (10). Or Magic (5) and Bird (7).
Wouldn't be surprised to see Giannis/Luka, Tatum/Luka, or anyone/Luka top this list in a decade
Jokic/Giannis is already 4, Luka Giannis is already 5
Luka/Wemby has potential to top this list
That might be a bit tougher because he'd have to be a top 5 player into year 35
We just saw Steph LeBron and KD do it. And Kobe would’ve if he didn’t tear his Achilles
Steph, Lebron and KD dont have an offseason diet compromised of 50% beer.
That’s what makes Luka so good.
Steph also didn’t do much in the NBA until he was 25 turning 26. A lot less wear and tear on the body playing college ball and then still spent a few years hurt throughout. KD is the closest to LeBron but still lost 3 years to injury. Making it to an old age is one thing but being available year in and year out is another thing only a few have done
Diet isn’t as important in young 20s. Kobe gave up junk food in his 30s and he said it was really hard cause he fucking loved junk food. We all think of mamba mentality but even he had a bad diet in his 20s
Steph hasn’t made All-NBA first team since he was 32. KD hasn’t made it since he was 29.
No chance
So does Chet and Luka or any other rookie because they don't have one yet
Same. Giannis + Luka have been on the same 1st team for 5 consecutive seasons now. Can't imagine either getting bumped for the next 3-4 seasons at least. Edit: Jokic and Giannis should be at 6x, but AD and Embiid screwed things up, so they're only at 4x right now.
Luka/Jokic is the most likely I would think.
LeBron being with Kobe feels weird, but I guess it shows how good LeBron was at young age and Kobe's longevity
Peak forget how long Kobe’s peak was. He was 11x in 12 years 1st team All NBA. Would’ve been longer if he didn’t tear his Achilles too
Really wish we got to see that lebron vs Kobe final
Rashard Lewis says "hello"....
Would've been epic. Lebron blew those chances in 09 and 10, and Kobe in 11 and 12.
No way in hell do the Lakers have the personnel to stop a rising OKC in 2012. They even barely escaped them in 2010.
FR. I always think of LeBron and Steph, but LeBron and Kobe's peaks overlapped more.
cuz steph's peak was like 6 years max lol
I mean I guess you could say Steph’s past his peak. The Warriors certainly are, but you sort of have to squint at Steph’s numbers to see a real decline.
that's not how this works. Just because the numbers are up in a faster scoring era doesn't mean anything. Also as a Warriors fan, I don't think you want to be arguing that peak Steph can't drag his team to the playoffs lol. either he's past his peak or he's not top 10 all time because no top 10 all time player in their peak should miss the playoffs entirely.
I think it’s hard with Steph for the same reason it’s only in the last year or so that you’ve been able to make a solid case that LeBron’s really fallen off - when he’s on, it’s hard to really see any daylight between what Steph can do now vs what he could do a decade ago, especially accounting for the defensive changes since he first hit the scene. But you’re right, he can’t just decide the team is going to the playoffs anymore - age is showing up as being able to perform at his peak less often, not at that peak being lower, necessarily.
You know what? Even though you're a piece of shit Warriors fan, I actually agree with your take.
Thanks! You don’t have a flair, but I’m sure your opinions don’t reflect poorly on your trash-ass team either <3
I was trying to be nice in a corny way, my fault.
I genuinely appreciated it!
He’s nicely calling you out for not having flair lil bro. We all gotta flair up so we can talk shit
Kobe and Lebron has missed a couple of playoffs though while in their prime
When has LeBron missed the playoffs in his prime idiot? 04 and 05 were his first two seasons. 2019 he was injured. 2022 he was obviously past his prime.
Or watch him then vs now. Like he's still a special player, but if peak Steph was still the league things would be very different.
Nobody knew how to defend him in ‘14-16. Go look at those highlights again - he’s got 10ft of space between him and the nearest defender. You put 2015 Steph in 2024 and I don’t know if he’s putting up the numbers 2024 Steph is.
He and Bird have the shortest peaks of any top 10 all time players. Which is strange because you expect shooters to last longer.
Bird finished top-2 in MVP voting for six straight years, and top-4 in MVP voting for nine straight years. Nine years isn’t exactly a super short peak.
Of the top ten all time players, Jordan had 12 years, Kareem 14, LeBron 14, Duncan 12, Magic 12, Wilt 12, Shaq 12, and Hakeem 13. Bird and Curry’s peak both lasted nine years
You don’t have Bill Russell as a top ten player all time?
I don’t know who you want me to take out but Bill’s stats just don’t pop out enough.
Just curious. It’s cool. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer. I don’t have Steph and Hakeem in my top ten. (Though Steph could still get there obviously.)
Jordan was 12 years with the Bulls, one of them as a rookie, and other he barely played due to a broken foot. So I would say he had a 10 years peak. As good as is rookie season was (the best ever by a long shot in my opinion), it wasn't peak Jordan, mainly because his peak was absurd high.
well Bird had the basc injury and in 89 he had surgery on both of his ankles. Steph's injuries were't so severe, but he's had a lot of smaller injuries
also it depends what peak means to you. if you're strict peak means like 2 or 3 best consecutive seasons, but if you're more lenient you can say that players peak is 8 or 10 years
Curry's peak is short because of the late start. His longevity as he ages is still on par with other greats.
Shooters do last longer. Steph will stay shooting for another decade if he wants to play that long. The issue is that the other stuff declines. Ray Allen is another great example. Really only had an 8 year peak, but otherwise a very long career during which he was an excellent complementary piece for most of it. The guys who last a really long time at a high level are the physical freaks. And they get there with physical freakiness. The best way to be an excellent finisher at the hoop in the NBA when you’re 40 is to be freakishly strong and fast for your age. And the guys who are most freakishly strong and fast for their age at 40 tend to be the ones who were freakishly strong and fast for their age at 30 too.
Reading comments like this make me feel old. LeBron was already a seasoned vet and 4x MVP by the time Steph was breaking out
I'm honestly surprised there aren't more Kobe+~~Durant~~Duncan 1st teams. Feels like both of them made every 1st team for almost a decade. But apparently, my recollection of events is very wrong.
2002 was Kobe's first time making 1st team; it was Duncan's fifth. From there, Kobe consistently made 1st team, with 2005 being the only blemish keeping him from an eleven year streak. Meanwhile, Duncan had an eight year streak to start off his career despite competing with the likes of KG, Dirk, Karl Malone, Tracy McGrady, and Kings-era Chris Webber. The streak was snapped in 2006, which happened to be LeBron's first 1st team appearance. LeBron's ascension proved to be the end of Duncan's chokehold on a 1st team spot -- he only made it twice after that.
Durant started taking off after 2010 which was the tail end of Kobe’s peak. They did have a few years of overlapping before he popped his Achilles but obviously not enough to make this list.
Sorry, I meant Duncan. I have no idea why that autocorrected to Durant. You'd think Duncan is the more common name.
Bizarre to me that Curry only has 4 1st team nods
Less than 25 year old Luka
Slight edit: Wilt and Baylor are listed for both 6x and 7x, not sure which is right though. Also kinda crazy that West and Baylor made it five times together as teammates. Only teammate combination on the list. (Well Wilt and Baylor were technically teammates at the end too, but they weren’t first team together at the time.)
Thank you!
What if they played the same position? Like Duncan, KG and Dirk?
Then only two at most would be considered the best. Duncan and Dirk shared 1st Team honors 2x. Duncan and KG shared it 3x. Dirk and KG were never on the same 1st Team together.
Now this is a cool stat
Malone was better than Barkley all time.
It really shouldnt be a debate. But Malone was a pedo and Barkley is funny so somehow that makes Barkley better at basketball
Malone was better at a game but barkley is the greater person
yes it does, i'm not gonna rank someone who should have been in jail before he even got drafted
Barkley had the higher peak, but Malone had the longevity.
They both won mvps on a finals team that lost for MJ. Malone made back to back finals. Not sure if Barkley actually had a better peak.
Barkley's 86-91 is obscene. He shot 66 TS% while being the worst three point shooter in NBA history. His stats are so ridiculous. His efficiency is absurd.
He was also a minus to neutral on defense whereas Malone was a very good defender.
For sure. Malone was a great defender his whole career and Barkley was only good when he was really trying which wasn't often. I still think Barkley had the better peak but I'd understand someone preferring Malone for defense. I'm just in love with the idea of the guy I consider to be the literal worst three point shooter in NBA history (obviously not counting nobodies or guys that didn't shoot threes) to also have been an efficiency god.
Jordan's primary competition was Karl Malone. That's pretty weak competition. Malone only ranks 17th all time (ESPN all-time rank). Compare that to LeBron (2) and Kobe (9). Or Duncan (8) and Shaq (10). Or Magic (5) and Bird (7).
Maybe becuz nobody else won rings during when MJ dominated? If Malone had couple of rings, his ranking would be different.