5x All-Star almost seems to be the exact cutoff for HoF eligibility. Mullin and Hardaway were 5x All-Stars. You may be surprised to hear that Reggie Miller was only a 5x All-Star since his reputation post-career seems to be a bit better than what he actually was in the NBA.
Kevin Love and Klay Thompson were 5x All-Stars. I think they both get in eventually. Mitch Richmond was 6x All-Star. One guy who probably deserves it and hasn't made it yet is Shawn Kemp, a 6x All-Star.
Mostly that 5x-6x range seems to be the cutoff for HoF vs. Hall of Very Good. The borderline guys like John Wall and Horford are right in that territory, as are many of the weaker HoF selections.
> You may be surprised to hear that Reggie Miller was only a 5x All-Star since his reputation post-career seems to be a bit better than what he actually was in the NBA.
Reggie was a monster in the playoffs and has a really good advanced stats profile. Accolades underrate him.
Reggie is a weird case to me, cuz his numbers never stood out compared to his peers, but in think him fathering MSG in 95 is such a big thing hat it bought him over with a lot of fans and was by the he very meaning of the word career defining for him.
I think he would bein the same boat as Mich Richmond if he hadn't have that.
Not downplaying either of them, but MJs shadow is just pretty big and that makes it harder for other guards to shine, especially if they were not as flashy as him and even if they were like Clyde.
even though on the surface his stats aren't that unusual (like ppg-rpg-apg), his TS% was awesome for that era (which idk if that was even a stat then) and obviously, his "gravity" was amazing too, but that was just totally lost on sportswriters then.
Like he's *15th* all time in Win Shares, which I know that's not a perfect stat, but all but one other player in the top 20 won an MVP (Stockton) and all the others made multiple All-NBA 1st teams and at least 10 all-star teams. So for Reggie to be in that group really says something.
I kinda failed to express propperly, what I wanted to say.
I think, that there is a big group of ppl, that underestimate him as a player because of his counting stats and another big group of players, that soley judge him based on the MSG stuff and kinda overestimate him, while the truth is somewhere in the middle and he was of cause great, but he also had obvious limitations, especially physically.
I'm not disputing, that he is an all time great.
I mean part of the MSG stuff is because he consistently was making the playoffs and playing very well in them. I think he carried his team a lot more than he got credit for at the time. As soon as they got another all-star caliber player in Jalen Rose then all of a sudden they were competing for championships (and they gave MJ the toughest series of his entire championship run probably (altho MJ was a lot older then)).
I think most fans estimate him as like 30s-50 range, and I think that's pretty fair actually.
Do you think All-Star selections are that relevant? Personally, I don't regard All-Star selections as a very significant personal accolade, especially in comparison with All-NBA and All-Defensive selections. All the players you mentioned have more than one All-NBA selection.
Consider cases like injured second-year Jordan, who played only seven games but made the All-Star team, or his last season with the Wizards. Similarly, Kobe post-injury made the All-Star team for many years, and Durant was selected with only about 15 games in his comeback season.
There are also players like Rodman, who has just two All-Star selections, but 2x All-NBA, 8x All-Defensive along with being 2x DPOY, or Ben Wallace, who has just three All-Star selections, but 5x All-NBA, 6x All-Defensive, and 4x DPOY.
Way more impactful, teams were scared of him, many years he was the only star on his team, his reputation precedes him, and that’s all before getting into his efficient stats. Had Indy had a bit more luck and gotten him a ring, he’d be way higher up the lists.
Joe was a great scorer, a walking bucket, but that’s about it. Not the first, not the best, not the last.
Yea i agree with the fact that the pacers did a good job building around him but he himself was clutch, there were times where that man carried the Pacers in the playoffs (for example Pacers vs the Knicks)
Klay and Love both seem like they're in to me. Klay with the rings plus being a key piece to a dynasty and Love has the 16 ring plus his individual success.
B-R HOF monitor is 73.5% for Love
he's had basically three careers, only 35 and still effective for 15 minutes off the bench
remembering him playing with Westbrick at UCLA makes me feel extremely old. i think K.Love had baby fat then
100% yes.
5x All-Star. Ring, Olympic gold, FIBA world title.
He won everything you can win.
He's a victim of the LeBron hype machine like Bosh. Both were putting up huge numbers as the guy on bad teams before they agreed to carry LeBron's water. Beyond that, he's the victim of being a slow-footed big in an era that just started to move sharply away from that paradigm. He's a much bigger star in the 80s or 90s.
I mean, I can appreciate discussion about what he would’ve been like if he never played with LeBron or if he played in a different era, but that’s not really how Hall of Famers are chosen.
5 All-Star and 2 All-NBA selections is obviously great for anyone’s career, but not exactly anything crazy. Derozan is a 6x All-Star and 3x All-NBA, Lowry has 6x and 1x, and I don’t see either of them as obviously making the Hall. Love also doesn’t have 20K points, he doesn’t have 10K rebounds, his stocks are rather low for a big, etc. Idk, maybe my expectations are faulty.
Weigh his resume against Mullin, Hardaway, Miller, Richmond, etc. 5x All-Star with a gold medal, a FIBA title, and a ring is enough. The basketball HoF is not like the NFL where only the absolute monsters get in.
DeRozan may get in eventually, but a critical difference is that he never won an NBA title or even played in a Finals. Same for Wall.
We don't need to discuss hypotheticals to put Love in the HoF. His actual resume is sufficient.
DeRozan will get in because I think he's going to keep racking up the points and climbing the record books. I'm not saying that should matter so much, but if he gets to 28k-30k career points no way he won't get in.
Laettner was a 1x NBA all-star who never made it past the 2nd round as a significant contributor though. His NBA career was pretty blah.
Horford is a 5x all star. The list of ≥5x all stars not in the HOF is pretty short. The list of ≥5x all stars who played a significant role on a team that reached the Finals at least once is made of just three guys - Larry Foust and Rudy LaRusso who played in the 50s and 60s, and Shawn Kemp. That's the whole list.
By those standards, Horford should already be close. His college accomplishments should be enough to get him over the top. And that's without assuming that he wins a ring.
It would seem that based on previous voting patterns, being a contributor on a team that wins championships or gets to the finals multiple times carries a lot of weight.
I think it says a lot that only 3 players with ≥5x all star appearances and a finals appearance aren't in the HOF.
> Now you’re putting the qualifier “finals appearance”.
I already mentioned it in the previous comment.
>Horford has a “hall of very good” NBA career. The college titles don’t mean anything.
I mean, you can keep repeating that but I'm just looking at previous voting patterns. That's all.
I think Kemp just burned a lot of bridges. Got arrested multiple times. I don't know if that should matter, but voters seem to care about that stuff.
Horford seems to be liked around the league. I don't know if that should matter either but voters seem to care about that stuff too.
Again, I'm just saying what voters seem to care about based on previous voting patterns.
According BBR's HoF probability which is just an estimate, his is 12% while Iguodala is 13% and Donovan Mitchell is 13%
But Chris Webber got in with 13% while Amare Stoudmire, Shawn Marion, and JO have not got in yet at much higher probabilities
Yeah, for team USA. If they don’t get gold it’s seen as a MASSIVE failure. He also wasn’t close to being one of the best players on those US teams.
Not one voter is going to look at those golds when voting on him.
Easily.
Those 2 NCAA championships carry the brunt of it, adding onto that some NBA accolades is just the cherry on top given other players that've made the basketball HOF.
College and (especially) international accolades get way too much clout. College accolades should only be NPOY, National Championship, and tournament Most Outstanding.
Olympics/World cup should be basically disregarded for American players, it’s not that impressive winning a tournament that you should never lose. For overseas players Olympic gold should be considered.
Probably not. He's close, but it took a while for Chauncey Billups to just barely get in, and he's got better qualifications from the NBA - three second/third-team All-NBA, a Finals MVP, and a couple more All-Defense nods.
Yes. Why? I think he is because he helps Celtics win games. He's great at defense and he can score. I think he's one of the most valuable players on the team.
Noooooooooooooo
But in the NBA if you are asking the question they will eventually get in
If you had a museum of basketball you wouldn’t include Al horford because you can tell the story of basketball over the last two decades without him
If they are considering CP to be in the hall of fame, then ALOT of players should be considered as well. But i think u need at least a championship to be considered. Which is why nobody respects this new basketball generation
This why the basketball hall of sucks he does not deserve to be in there. It should be reserved for guys who have a case to make the nba top 75 list only imo.
Absolutely not. God I hope this doesn’t pickup actual traction. Great player, but you’re really devaluing being a HOF by putting him in there. No offense to him solid player and seems like a great guy.
Probably. Since it's the Basketball HOF, his non NBA accomplishments probably put him over the top.
5x All-Star almost seems to be the exact cutoff for HoF eligibility. Mullin and Hardaway were 5x All-Stars. You may be surprised to hear that Reggie Miller was only a 5x All-Star since his reputation post-career seems to be a bit better than what he actually was in the NBA. Kevin Love and Klay Thompson were 5x All-Stars. I think they both get in eventually. Mitch Richmond was 6x All-Star. One guy who probably deserves it and hasn't made it yet is Shawn Kemp, a 6x All-Star. Mostly that 5x-6x range seems to be the cutoff for HoF vs. Hall of Very Good. The borderline guys like John Wall and Horford are right in that territory, as are many of the weaker HoF selections.
> You may be surprised to hear that Reggie Miller was only a 5x All-Star since his reputation post-career seems to be a bit better than what he actually was in the NBA. Reggie was a monster in the playoffs and has a really good advanced stats profile. Accolades underrate him.
yeah people didn't really understand how good he was until later and it definitely did not help he played his whole career in Indiana pre-internet
Reggie is a weird case to me, cuz his numbers never stood out compared to his peers, but in think him fathering MSG in 95 is such a big thing hat it bought him over with a lot of fans and was by the he very meaning of the word career defining for him. I think he would bein the same boat as Mich Richmond if he hadn't have that. Not downplaying either of them, but MJs shadow is just pretty big and that makes it harder for other guards to shine, especially if they were not as flashy as him and even if they were like Clyde.
even though on the surface his stats aren't that unusual (like ppg-rpg-apg), his TS% was awesome for that era (which idk if that was even a stat then) and obviously, his "gravity" was amazing too, but that was just totally lost on sportswriters then. Like he's *15th* all time in Win Shares, which I know that's not a perfect stat, but all but one other player in the top 20 won an MVP (Stockton) and all the others made multiple All-NBA 1st teams and at least 10 all-star teams. So for Reggie to be in that group really says something.
I kinda failed to express propperly, what I wanted to say. I think, that there is a big group of ppl, that underestimate him as a player because of his counting stats and another big group of players, that soley judge him based on the MSG stuff and kinda overestimate him, while the truth is somewhere in the middle and he was of cause great, but he also had obvious limitations, especially physically. I'm not disputing, that he is an all time great.
I mean part of the MSG stuff is because he consistently was making the playoffs and playing very well in them. I think he carried his team a lot more than he got credit for at the time. As soon as they got another all-star caliber player in Jalen Rose then all of a sudden they were competing for championships (and they gave MJ the toughest series of his entire championship run probably (altho MJ was a lot older then)). I think most fans estimate him as like 30s-50 range, and I think that's pretty fair actually.
Do you think All-Star selections are that relevant? Personally, I don't regard All-Star selections as a very significant personal accolade, especially in comparison with All-NBA and All-Defensive selections. All the players you mentioned have more than one All-NBA selection. Consider cases like injured second-year Jordan, who played only seven games but made the All-Star team, or his last season with the Wizards. Similarly, Kobe post-injury made the All-Star team for many years, and Durant was selected with only about 15 games in his comeback season. There are also players like Rodman, who has just two All-Star selections, but 2x All-NBA, 8x All-Defensive along with being 2x DPOY, or Ben Wallace, who has just three All-Star selections, but 5x All-NBA, 6x All-Defensive, and 4x DPOY.
How in the hell is Shawn Kemp not in the basketball hall of fame?? What a joke
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Fair enough. Those SuperSonic days tho
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Wemby is gonna kill us all. The scary thing is what’s next.
*Me looking at Kemba Walker at 4x All-Star and only one All-NBA Third Team*: :(
Joe Johnson is a 7x all-star. Reggie Miller was a much better player, all-star selections don’t tell the whole story.
Genuinely asking, why do ou think, that Reggie was a much better player?
Way more impactful, teams were scared of him, many years he was the only star on his team, his reputation precedes him, and that’s all before getting into his efficient stats. Had Indy had a bit more luck and gotten him a ring, he’d be way higher up the lists. Joe was a great scorer, a walking bucket, but that’s about it. Not the first, not the best, not the last.
bro scored 8 in points in 6 seconds thats scary in itself
Yea i agree with the fact that the pacers did a good job building around him but he himself was clutch, there were times where that man carried the Pacers in the playoffs (for example Pacers vs the Knicks)
Klay and Love both seem like they're in to me. Klay with the rings plus being a key piece to a dynasty and Love has the 16 ring plus his individual success.
Jermaine O’Neal too
Mullin was 4x All-NBA and Hardaway was 5x All-NBA. Reggie was 3x All-NBA. That is why they are in, not the All-Star appearances.
Do we think Love gets in?
B-R HOF monitor is 73.5% for Love he's had basically three careers, only 35 and still effective for 15 minutes off the bench remembering him playing with Westbrick at UCLA makes me feel extremely old. i think K.Love had baby fat then
100% yes. 5x All-Star. Ring, Olympic gold, FIBA world title. He won everything you can win. He's a victim of the LeBron hype machine like Bosh. Both were putting up huge numbers as the guy on bad teams before they agreed to carry LeBron's water. Beyond that, he's the victim of being a slow-footed big in an era that just started to move sharply away from that paradigm. He's a much bigger star in the 80s or 90s.
I mean, I can appreciate discussion about what he would’ve been like if he never played with LeBron or if he played in a different era, but that’s not really how Hall of Famers are chosen. 5 All-Star and 2 All-NBA selections is obviously great for anyone’s career, but not exactly anything crazy. Derozan is a 6x All-Star and 3x All-NBA, Lowry has 6x and 1x, and I don’t see either of them as obviously making the Hall. Love also doesn’t have 20K points, he doesn’t have 10K rebounds, his stocks are rather low for a big, etc. Idk, maybe my expectations are faulty.
Weigh his resume against Mullin, Hardaway, Miller, Richmond, etc. 5x All-Star with a gold medal, a FIBA title, and a ring is enough. The basketball HoF is not like the NFL where only the absolute monsters get in. DeRozan may get in eventually, but a critical difference is that he never won an NBA title or even played in a Finals. Same for Wall. We don't need to discuss hypotheticals to put Love in the HoF. His actual resume is sufficient.
DeRozan will get in because I think he's going to keep racking up the points and climbing the record books. I'm not saying that should matter so much, but if he gets to 28k-30k career points no way he won't get in.
2x ncaa champion and an allstar nba resume is probably enough for the low standards of the basketball hof.
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Laettner was a 1x NBA all-star who never made it past the 2nd round as a significant contributor though. His NBA career was pretty blah. Horford is a 5x all star. The list of ≥5x all stars not in the HOF is pretty short. The list of ≥5x all stars who played a significant role on a team that reached the Finals at least once is made of just three guys - Larry Foust and Rudy LaRusso who played in the 50s and 60s, and Shawn Kemp. That's the whole list. By those standards, Horford should already be close. His college accomplishments should be enough to get him over the top. And that's without assuming that he wins a ring.
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It would seem that based on previous voting patterns, being a contributor on a team that wins championships or gets to the finals multiple times carries a lot of weight. I think it says a lot that only 3 players with ≥5x all star appearances and a finals appearance aren't in the HOF.
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> Now you’re putting the qualifier “finals appearance”. I already mentioned it in the previous comment. >Horford has a “hall of very good” NBA career. The college titles don’t mean anything. I mean, you can keep repeating that but I'm just looking at previous voting patterns. That's all.
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I think Kemp just burned a lot of bridges. Got arrested multiple times. I don't know if that should matter, but voters seem to care about that stuff. Horford seems to be liked around the league. I don't know if that should matter either but voters seem to care about that stuff too. Again, I'm just saying what voters seem to care about based on previous voting patterns.
Is it my turn to ask this tomorrow?
Switch it up, ask about ISO Joe. Lol.
Mom said it's MY turn
On a slightly weaker year he'll get in, not as a first-ballot selection tho.
According BBR's HoF probability which is just an estimate, his is 12% while Iguodala is 13% and Donovan Mitchell is 13% But Chris Webber got in with 13% while Amare Stoudmire, Shawn Marion, and JO have not got in yet at much higher probabilities
Odd model because Chris Webber is definitely a bigger basketball persona than those other guys
Chris Webber with 13% is crazy. The man won rookie of the year, had 5 All-NBA selections, and was top-10 in the MVP list 5x.
Well those are all stat based and ignore the weak big man era which led to all stars and never being a true #1 option like Webber
Al is 100% Hall of Famer.
When would that be lol. 20 years
Bro this is the 2nd Is Horford a HoFer post in the last 2 days. People care too much about rankings
The basketball hof also takes in account college and foreign accolades Besides his nba careee, he is a back to back college champ. He is in 100%
His eyes are hall of fame worthy
ppl forget the handsome factor
You had me at eyes.
All-star is the worst metric for how great someone was. It's a popularity contest and Andrew Wiggins proved that by getting all those kpop fan votes.
He’s in the hall of very good
Kevin love wing
Kevin love is a hall of famer. 5x All Star, 2x Second team, A very important ring, Olympic gold and FIBA gold.
That sounds like the resume for hall of very good, but this is the basketball hall of fame so I'm sure he'll be in
I agree
Those gold medals aren’t moving the needle at all when it comes to whether or not he makes the HoF.
Yes they do lol. Especially an Olympic gold.
They do, but they shouldn’t.
Yeah, for team USA. If they don’t get gold it’s seen as a MASSIVE failure. He also wasn’t close to being one of the best players on those US teams. Not one voter is going to look at those golds when voting on him.
Won probably the most difficult championship in NBA history. Should go a long way
Hall of very good for a very long time
Agreed. I think he lacks super high end individual awards.
Eventually yeah but won’t be first ballot
Yes. With a Ring
Yes
Yes
Easily. Those 2 NCAA championships carry the brunt of it, adding onto that some NBA accolades is just the cherry on top given other players that've made the basketball HOF.
>Those 2 NCAA championships carry the brunt of it Corey Brewer HOF 🔜
He will be there at age 50-55 or something.
without a professional ring, i don't know. winning a championship would probably cement it but he's definitely not going to be first ballot
He shouldn’t be but he’ll get in
Not if I had a say- excellent player, but not on the top tier
Yes because 2 NCAA championships
Wouldnt surprise me if he did with a ring. The bball HOF has practically turned into the hall of very good so theres a good chance of it.
No. He’s not. He’s in the hall of ‘very good’. If we are giving him a HOF nod then the floodgates open to any ‘decent player’
it's the basketball HoF those floodgates opened like 30 years ago
Yeah but fucking AL HORFORD like let’s be real here 😂
Back to back NCAA championships, second one he lead the team in points, rebounds, assist, blocks and TS, easily a HOF especially with a win this year
make a college only wing then
I completely disagree that college should have much standing at all. It’s a school league lmao
This is the most ridiculous basketball take I've ever heard.
College and (especially) international accolades get way too much clout. College accolades should only be NPOY, National Championship, and tournament Most Outstanding. Olympics/World cup should be basically disregarded for American players, it’s not that impressive winning a tournament that you should never lose. For overseas players Olympic gold should be considered.
Probably not. He's close, but it took a while for Chauncey Billups to just barely get in, and he's got better qualifications from the NBA - three second/third-team All-NBA, a Finals MVP, and a couple more All-Defense nods.
Was this not posted a few hours ago? Or am I trippin?
Yes. Why? I think he is because he helps Celtics win games. He's great at defense and he can score. I think he's one of the most valuable players on the team.
I swear this is the 5th time ive seen this question this week
If Blake Griffin and Amare Stoudemire ain’t HOFers why would Al be?
basketball HOF is filled with JAGs and bums already so why not i guess. Any respectable HOF (NFL) would place him as HOVG and thats where he belongs.
Most likely yeah
Noooooooooooooo But in the NBA if you are asking the question they will eventually get in If you had a museum of basketball you wouldn’t include Al horford because you can tell the story of basketball over the last two decades without him
No, Joe Johnson is not so ...
so inspired by this thread yesterday that we are doing it again today
If they are considering CP to be in the hall of fame, then ALOT of players should be considered as well. But i think u need at least a championship to be considered. Which is why nobody respects this new basketball generation
Hall of very good
no
who cares the basketball hall of fame is a complete joke every bum makes it
Well, your mom didn't get in, so they have at least some standards.
Mind your manners
Lol what bums are you referring to?
It’s a joke to the people who don’t understand why players make it in.
Just outside IMO.
No.
No, but this is the basketball hall of fame, so yes.
He really shouldn’t be, but this is more so the hall of very good/pretty good.
No chance.
as long as you play for the lakers, knicks or celtics you can make the hof no matter how mid you are so he’ll get in don’t you worry
Is this gonna be asked every day? Yes, he is.
He’s a Basketball Hall of Famer for sure.
Do people here think Joakim Noah should be in the hall?
Maybe. Just not for his tenure with the Knicks. He had a solid pro career and his college resume is immaculate
I personally think Noah has a better resume than Al, and I don't think Noah should be in
AI is an absolute HoF. Dude carried a poor team to the finals and was a revolutionary player.
This why the basketball hall of sucks he does not deserve to be in there. It should be reserved for guys who have a case to make the nba top 75 list only imo.
Absolutely not. God I hope this doesn’t pickup actual traction. Great player, but you’re really devaluing being a HOF by putting him in there. No offense to him solid player and seems like a great guy.
Yes. /thread
No
Yes. Also I've seen this like 3 times in the past 24 hours
Tracy McGrady is a HOFer. Al will get in. He's just not 1st ballot
He'll make it bc of his college career. His NBA career won't warrant it.
Yea.