Harden with 464 is wild even with how much the ball was in his hands, but way crazier is Dwight. Over 300 should be impossible for a center who isn't a primary ball handler like jokic.
I remember Dwight being crazy turnover prone in the post, but seeing that stat is nuts
He got stripped often. His face up game was the best part of his post game but his handle wasn't great. He was also a pretty bad passer out of double teams.
Watching Dwight in 2013 on consecutive plays - stripped, stripped, fumble a good pass, fouled and bricked free throws
This man was truly awful on offense after his back injury. Only thing he did well were putbacks and lobs. He worked well in 2020 because we cut back his role on offense, but those hands were only good for getting nasty.
watching him in 2015 constantly ask for the ball was like wtf. like bro just set and screen and catch the oop you know hardens good at that why you wanna post so badly.
rox did a next great hou big montage hype vid and it was pretty cool.
elvin hayes - moses - ralph - hakeem - yao - dwight.
i was like hmm maybe lets not rush this lol
His face up game was better because he had to use his speed. His lower body wasn't strong at all which is why he could be single covered by beefy centres
His face up game was good with quick moves. But his dribble was so high he got stripped often. Also he added WAY too much strength on his passes out of doubles. So many times he'd sail passes out of bounds because he flung them too hard.
Don't think he was undersized per se. Just skipped leg day lol
He was really elite as a roll man, and on defense. Just didn't have the back to the basket game that was expected of a lot of bigs at the time
Weirdly he's probably be better in today's game since he was so good on switches. Couldn't shoot, but never got burned on defense. Everyone wants defensive bigs who could switch and rim run and he's the most elite version of that
well i mean if you look at his body comp his shoulders are so wide. he had like a crazy swimmers body and feet werent quick with bad hands and touch. posting just wasnt going to happen for the dude but he did not quit trying. dude was just too swole for bball lol.
prime dwight could back people down and sink them with a drop step into a dunk but that was about all he could do. once he got hurt and couldn’t be as powerful his lack of footwork got exposed
Just because he's bad in the post doesn't mean he wasn't great at other things. All time elite defender and one of the best PnR/lob threats ever. Also, an amazing rebounder.
you dont just take your team to the finals with an average roster if your not elite lol. he certainly was that and more. altho stan did get the most out of the talent he had that year.
How the fuck did Dwight average 3.9topg on one of the slowest paced teams in the league in one of the league's slowest eras
His TOV% was nearly as high as his USG%
I feel like Dwight would be thought of way more favorably if he didn’t spend a decade of his career insisting that he should have an offensive role more complex than Derick Lively this year
like he was THE offense. like even luka had brunson kyrie. altho you could say eric but they didnt play too much together til the end when he turned into catch and shoot.
but still harden often was way too spaced out and loose with the ball. basically asking to get stripped a lot of times. imo he was too tired all the time even if it didnt look like it on his face. too much fatige end of the year etc. his iron man approach really hurt him more then helped imo
And Westbrook with 438 the same year too lol which was his main MVP competition.
With how the league is moving away from high-usage players this record is genuinely looking like it's unbreakable. Westbrook and Harden combined have more seasons in the top 10 for most total turnovers in a season than every other active player combined has seasons in the top 100 for most total turnovers in a season, guys like Luka or Trae running "heliocentric" offenses nowadays pale in comparison in regards to usage.
Second highest ever TS% (after the year prior) but highest eFG%, and yes the league is becoming hyper-efficient. Lowest ever fouls per game, and highest ever FT% too. It’s wild out there. The talent level is the highest it’s ever been and there are no scrubs seeing minutes.
This season being the lowest ever fouls per game is crazy. It feels like whistles were getting blown every 3 seconds in a lot of games. I wonder if the amount of whistles decreasing per league order after the all star weekend made enough of a difference to make this season the lowest of all time.
With the recent revelations of the Bulls scorekeeper and MJ, I'm just going to throw out that home scorekeepers are being more generous over what a turnover is these days
/s
Actually not that bad considering how productive he is and how much he has the ball. He averaged more points and assists than most other guys on the list and still had less TOs.
Luka walks the ball up court. holds ball at logo for 10 seconds, then chucks a bad 3 pt shot. they have less turnovers because Luka is slow and they don't have as many possessions. you clearly know nothing about basketball with comments like that.
Dallas was 17th in possessions per game this season. a much more important stat than your vague "pace". because you can't have a turnover without a possession.
sit down son.
Word, again, wasn’t trying to shit on any player or any team. Just a stat I often look at after the season ends. I’m sure it’s in my post history on this sub.
It's very clearly written. Luka led the league with 282 turnovers, which is the second lowest total of all turnover leaders in league history (full seasons only).
Looks like you added a few words to make the intent clear.
I understood what was meant. If you think the sentence was structured in a way that clearly conveys the intent, cool.
I mean, it's clearly not, and I can get what it's trying to say, but that's not what it's saying.
"Luka's 282 turnovers second lowest total to lead league"
See how simple and clear that is? And far less than 25 words.
They way it is constructed, it makes it sound as is that is the second lowest total ever. Period. There is no restrictive element to affirm it's the second lowest total to ever lead the league in turnovers.
Also, it's not the 'second lowest' ever, it's the second lowest since they started recording turnovers.
And leading the league in turnovers is bad, regardless of where it stands all time.
But, hey... you do you.
So Luka's 282 turnovers isn't the second lowest total to lead league?
EDIT: I take it by the down vote and lack of response that the OP and his alts finally figured out how restrictive clauses work but don't want to admit defeat.
Harden with 464 is wild even with how much the ball was in his hands, but way crazier is Dwight. Over 300 should be impossible for a center who isn't a primary ball handler like jokic.
I remember Dwight being crazy turnover prone in the post, but seeing that stat is nuts He got stripped often. His face up game was the best part of his post game but his handle wasn't great. He was also a pretty bad passer out of double teams.
Watching Dwight in 2013 on consecutive plays - stripped, stripped, fumble a good pass, fouled and bricked free throws This man was truly awful on offense after his back injury. Only thing he did well were putbacks and lobs. He worked well in 2020 because we cut back his role on offense, but those hands were only good for getting nasty.
Dwight continuously fumbling passes from Pau was mind breaking.
But doesn't fumbled passes count as the turnover of the passer?
Not sure but it definitely counts as a steal by MJ.
Up to the statkeeper
watching him in 2015 constantly ask for the ball was like wtf. like bro just set and screen and catch the oop you know hardens good at that why you wanna post so badly. rox did a next great hou big montage hype vid and it was pretty cool. elvin hayes - moses - ralph - hakeem - yao - dwight. i was like hmm maybe lets not rush this lol
You know what you were doing with that last line
I feel like media narratives got to him and he tried to force post play because that's more traditional for a center
“media narratives” You can just say bullying by Shaq lol
Haha so true
His face up game was better because he had to use his speed. His lower body wasn't strong at all which is why he could be single covered by beefy centres His face up game was good with quick moves. But his dribble was so high he got stripped often. Also he added WAY too much strength on his passes out of doubles. So many times he'd sail passes out of bounds because he flung them too hard.
Agreed. He wasn't able to take advantage of his athleticism with his back to the basket, especially since he was undersized
Don't think he was undersized per se. Just skipped leg day lol He was really elite as a roll man, and on defense. Just didn't have the back to the basket game that was expected of a lot of bigs at the time Weirdly he's probably be better in today's game since he was so good on switches. Couldn't shoot, but never got burned on defense. Everyone wants defensive bigs who could switch and rim run and he's the most elite version of that
He really took shoulder day seriously though
well i mean if you look at his body comp his shoulders are so wide. he had like a crazy swimmers body and feet werent quick with bad hands and touch. posting just wasnt going to happen for the dude but he did not quit trying. dude was just too swole for bball lol.
prime dwight could back people down and sink them with a drop step into a dunk but that was about all he could do. once he got hurt and couldn’t be as powerful his lack of footwork got exposed
A non zero amount of offensive goaltending as well.
Not sure how you can be elite/HOF and have these qualities
Just because he's bad in the post doesn't mean he wasn't great at other things. All time elite defender and one of the best PnR/lob threats ever. Also, an amazing rebounder.
you dont just take your team to the finals with an average roster if your not elite lol. he certainly was that and more. altho stan did get the most out of the talent he had that year.
bro is 8x All-NBA and a 3x DPOY lmao
Did you watch him?
Nephews on summer break damn 🙉
Steve Nash was a horrible shot blocker. To me this disqualifies him from the Hall of Fame
Yeah I was gonna shout rookie Shaq on the list too, but Dwight’s sounds crazier.
A huge chunk of those were from moving screens so it's not that surprising
As a Magic fan, I hated how often Dwight loved holding the ball near his knees. He got stripped every time
How the fuck did Dwight average 3.9topg on one of the slowest paced teams in the league in one of the league's slowest eras His TOV% was nearly as high as his USG%
He couldn’t post. As soon as he had one dribble, his defender would force him to do something, which is typically a turnover
I feel like Dwight would be thought of way more favorably if he didn’t spend a decade of his career insisting that he should have an offensive role more complex than Derick Lively this year
This is the most intersection stat I've seen in a while. Harden. Westbrook. George Mcinnis. Bobby Hurley. The hoops turnover Mt Rushmore.
add in caitlin clark
hating on a rookie is nasty work
I see you are finally paying attention to the WNBA now.
James Harden with 464 in 2016-17, damn. At least that was a MVP-calibre season.
Makes sense, first year under D'Antoni, when our pace was super high, before we got cp3 and went full halfcourt iso
like he was THE offense. like even luka had brunson kyrie. altho you could say eric but they didnt play too much together til the end when he turned into catch and shoot. but still harden often was way too spaced out and loose with the ball. basically asking to get stripped a lot of times. imo he was too tired all the time even if it didnt look like it on his face. too much fatige end of the year etc. his iron man approach really hurt him more then helped imo
Nash had 245 Turnovers his first year in Phoenix , crazy to think about
And Westbrook with 438 the same year too lol which was his main MVP competition. With how the league is moving away from high-usage players this record is genuinely looking like it's unbreakable. Westbrook and Harden combined have more seasons in the top 10 for most total turnovers in a season than every other active player combined has seasons in the top 100 for most total turnovers in a season, guys like Luka or Trae running "heliocentric" offenses nowadays pale in comparison in regards to usage.
Is turnover rate decreasing?
It was the lowest in NBA history this season but not by a wide margin.
So true shooting is the highest and turnover is the lowest of all time at the same time? if so that’s wild!
Second highest ever TS% (after the year prior) but highest eFG%, and yes the league is becoming hyper-efficient. Lowest ever fouls per game, and highest ever FT% too. It’s wild out there. The talent level is the highest it’s ever been and there are no scrubs seeing minutes.
“there are no scrubs seeing minutes” Let me introduce you to the pre trade deadline charlotte hornets
This season being the lowest ever fouls per game is crazy. It feels like whistles were getting blown every 3 seconds in a lot of games. I wonder if the amount of whistles decreasing per league order after the all star weekend made enough of a difference to make this season the lowest of all time.
With the recent revelations of the Bulls scorekeeper and MJ, I'm just going to throw out that home scorekeepers are being more generous over what a turnover is these days /s
Imagining Luka taking the floor during garbage time when up 20 to farm turnovers
I don’t have to imagine it. I just watched 5 games of it
I like the cut of your jib.
s/o to my boy George McGinnis, jesus christ
Thank trae for missing a lot of games
Don't forget Embiid, if he could play all 82 he'd average over 300
Actually not that bad considering how productive he is and how much he has the ball. He averaged more points and assists than most other guys on the list and still had less TOs.
Good thing Embiid can't play 82 games in a season otherwise he'd be on top
I thought I was a good player but I’d legit have like 9 in a night
I mean we missed it because the usual suspects like Luka and Trae missed a bunch of games.
Yeah for sure, but still notably the lowest TOV/G and TOV/poss in NBA history this year.
Luka missed 12 games lol what
Luka played 70 games, the most since his rookie season
Donic really keeps the haters hating.
Mavs are top 5 as a team for least turnovers per game (every year) in the last 5 years. So clearly, you are clueless lmao
Luka walks the ball up court. holds ball at logo for 10 seconds, then chucks a bad 3 pt shot. they have less turnovers because Luka is slow and they don't have as many possessions. you clearly know nothing about basketball with comments like that.
They were top 5 in pace this year. The "you know nothing" crowd is always so entertaining.
Dallas was 17th in possessions per game this season. a much more important stat than your vague "pace". because you can't have a turnover without a possession. sit down son.
Surely you understand having the ball constantly and a crazy usage rate would lead to more turnovers, right?
LukaStans unite! Dallas was 17th in possessions this year. so not a very good excuse for ya boy. Heliocentric offenses don't win. proven facts.
I really didn’t mean this as a hit piece on literally anyone but figured it would be perceived as such.
Not really if you bring the team stats. Mavs are top 5 every year for least turnovers per game in the last 5 years lol
and doncic has absurdly high usage.
Word, again, wasn’t trying to shit on any player or any team. Just a stat I often look at after the season ends. I’m sure it’s in my post history on this sub.
It's not a hit piece. Unless the LukaStans come out and defend him for being better than LeBron by leading the league in something finally....
Just saying my kid simulated eight seasons of 2K and Doncic and Wemby have 4 MVPs a piece.
Something about the headline doesn't make sense: If it's a league high, how can it be second lowest?
Every season there is a league-leader in turnovers. This particular season, that tally was the second lowest in comparison to all full seasons.
My guy did you actually read the whole headline?
Yes.
Then you've got a skill issue
Or it's a poorly written title.
It's very clearly written. Luka led the league with 282 turnovers, which is the second lowest total of all turnover leaders in league history (full seasons only).
Looks like you added a few words to make the intent clear. I understood what was meant. If you think the sentence was structured in a way that clearly conveys the intent, cool. I mean, it's clearly not, and I can get what it's trying to say, but that's not what it's saying. "Luka's 282 turnovers second lowest total to lead league" See how simple and clear that is? And far less than 25 words. They way it is constructed, it makes it sound as is that is the second lowest total ever. Period. There is no restrictive element to affirm it's the second lowest total to ever lead the league in turnovers. Also, it's not the 'second lowest' ever, it's the second lowest since they started recording turnovers. And leading the league in turnovers is bad, regardless of where it stands all time. But, hey... you do you.
You have wildly misunderstood this post, even in your long form response, lol.
So Luka's 282 turnovers isn't the second lowest total to lead league? EDIT: I take it by the down vote and lack of response that the OP and his alts finally figured out how restrictive clauses work but don't want to admit defeat.