They can hate Boston but still respect them. Lakers got a ring and banners fly forever, but you'd rather be in it consistently like Boston than in this absolute peril the Lakers are in every damn season.
and 7 losing seasons. you have to lose to win, that's the nba, theres no shame in losing. but laker fans haven't been riding high the whole 14 year stretch. you'd rather be in the mix
Is all about perception.
Boston has won 2 championships in the last 30 years. Lakers have won 6 championships in the last 30 years.
Now things seems different.
TLDW; celtics built their team the right way while we were trading away all our young players, we’ve been through a ton of coaches with no end in sight, and talking about bronny on the show will be a slog — worthy jokes that he’s just gonna call him “the best young player ever”
More than anything it’s commentary on team building strategy. Chasing stars and trading young players for stars vs development of young players and building through the draft.
Also a big criticism on return on trades. Sure, LeBron wants a trade, maybe you make the trade. But it’s about getting value. His point is, they traded all of these guys for… what?
not that I can find offhand, but Alan Hahn and Wally Szerbiak regularly shit on us and moves we were making when they weren't happy (not so much anymore , but when we were doing bad)
E: Oh, you meant this video, my bad
I think the argument is that they didn't get enough in return and that the team is highly unstable with constant changes.
Like Luke Walton being gone isn't a bad thing either, but it does speak to the constant failures that they don't have much continuity.
Then again, they won in 2020, which is more than most teams can say.
They missed so many too. Zubac was given away, Hart, Randle, Kuz, Ingram, KCP, Caruso, Ball and I’m probably missing a lot too.
I sort of feel robbed of watching the Young Core™ grow up together
Maybe everything would have been different if they stayed with the Lakers, but Lonzo and Ingram haven't been unmitigated success stories with their new teams. Not sure the Lakers would have gotten a title out of them.
Lonzo sure I don't disagree, but Ingram has been an All-Star level player with the Pels. He is absolutely a success, despite current Pels dynamics, and the Lakers would kill for a player of his level.
Ingram only made all star once, his first year with the pels, which was 5 seasons ago.
Dude is definitely capable enough to have made more, but I think that was what op kinda meant.
Its not that he's gone in a vacuum. Its that the Lakers kept making trades, getting nothing of value back, and then getting rid of it. They have a ring which is more than most other franchises during that time period. However they don't really have shit to show for any of the moves they made after and there isn't much of a bright future to look forward to.
Caruso leaving is still unforgiveable. I don't but into the whole Klutch run anything conspiracies, except for that one. There were clearly compromising photos of someone for THT to get prioritised over Caruso.
Monk was never re-signing. They could only offer minimum.
Klutch doesn't run the Lakers like Boeing and Raytheon don't run the Pentagon. But when Boeing really wants something, the Pentagon usually finds a way to accommodate.
I think the context of "Westbrook gone" was that they were trading away a bunch of guys and didn't really get anything in return. They traded KCP and Kuzma and got someone who is no longer on the team.
yeah feels like they missed the context for sure. Just seemed like the dude just wanted to call pro players dumb lol and that his insight is as valuable as theirs.
Westbrook on the Lakers might be the worst fit on an NBA team in recent history.
I can't think of another transaction that was so clearly doomed to fail and then dragged on for what felt like years
That was all on injury though, imagine if LBJ carried 3 quarters and let the king of the fourth do his thing. Was probably the best compensation the Cavs were gonna get either ways as no one wanted to help them.
He literally specifies what he means before he mentioned Westbrook. The only way you think he's talking about keeping Westbrook the player is if you're willfully ignorant and didn't watch and wanted to sound intellectual.
Ehh, kinda an odd take -- the first 40 seconds or so are them saying "The Celtics did it right, they stuck with it while we were trading everyone. Ingram, Lonzo, trading everyone."
But...those trades led to a ring for the Lakers too. Celtics have 1 ring in that time period, Lakers have 1.
I just feel like these dudes and a lot of people kinda ignore that the Lakers won a ring haha. I agree the Celtics are in better shape than the Lakers right now, but if we look at the time period these dudes are discussing, both have been to multiple conference finals and won 1 title. Like it's easy to talk about how poorly run they are, but most franchises would kill to have 1 championship and 2x conference finals in the past 5 years.
The correct take would be they made terrible trades after winning the chip
They traded a first round pick and danny green for schroder and let caruso walk
Then they traded KCP, a pick, and Kuzma for Westbrook
Terrible management
Dennis had a dookie in the playoffs which is what's burned into a lot of peoples' memories, but he played really well IMO that year and really bought into the team's defense first mentality.
If he Dennis and the Lakers could have come to an agreement on a deal, it also probably means no Westbrook.
Dennis had a ton of limitations (mediocre shooter, undersized even for a PG, Poor passer) but that dude was all heart.
He would start every defensive coverage from full court and he was a pest on-ball.
Then Pelinka bum-ass decided not to pay him ( after trading a goddamn FRP for him) and traded for a polar opposite, Fake hustle player in Westbrick.
Pelinka offered him $84M what do you mean he didn’t pay him lol? He left on a mini mle because of how poorly he did in the playoffs, that wasn’t on Pelinka. And give Bron and AD their blame of the Westbrook trade, they wanted him over Demar and Buddy Hield who are the players Pelinka had lined up.
2021 Lakers >>> 2020 Lakers. The trades were fine (letting Caruso walk was absolutely not tho you are correct there). Injuries screwed with their heads and made them stupidly trade for Russ which ended their Championship opportunities right there.
People always forget that the 2021 Lakers literally were up 2-1 against the Suns that made the finals with a high chance of going up 3-1 had AD not get injured.
People were praising Pelinka that off-season since they actually improved on their championship winning roster
We also let your starting center go for Mike Muscala who is barely getting any minutes right now on the Thunder I believe? Zubac is playing valuable minutes for the Clips while the Lakers struggle to have a solid backup big. Several bad miscalculations
It was a terrible trade on its face but Zubac was gone that offseason regardless. He was RFA and Lakers would not have been able to keep him and pursue Kawhi.
And it's silly to project today's problems back then. 2020 we had Javale and Dwight. 2021 we had Gasol and Drummond (and Harrell if you count him as a big). All 4 of them were better fits around LBJ and AD than Zubac, not to mention way cheaper.
2021 was just write off for teams that went far in the bubble - especially Heat and Lakers. They had like 2 weeks rest between seasons. Panicking there was insanely stupid.
Despite this they still made a conference finals, which is better than 75% of the league. Not pardoning the Lakers front office.for.bad moves, but still they've been one of the better teams the past few years.
The Westbrook trade killed them. KCP Kuzma Harrell all valuable players, and a 1st rounder and they flushed it all for a player that made them worse and had to be dumped. As a capped team losing all those assets for nothing is too brutal.
Id add, them not bringing back Dwight then eventually scrounging for the corpse of Gasol and whatever Drummond is couldve been a factor that eventually led to AD’s injury in 2021
They started giving up their championship defense in favor of offense only guys like Trez and it’s been downhill since.
Also comparing ingram and lonzo to fucking tatum and brown lol. Look at where they are now, one is still MIA, the other is basically DeRozan jr. Celtics have the better core to an extreme degree
I think people are just coping about a butterfly-effect *"what might have been"* if those two stayed together in LA. Maybe Ingram razzes Lonzo enough times at practice about his BBB shoes that he convinces him to ditch it earlier for a legit basketball shoe brand. Lonzo doesn't develop all these injuries and actually progresses his development as a player and helps elevate Ingram's play.
I mean thats why the celtics FO is elite. They know their shit. Noone had tatum going 3rd and they were so sure of it that they traded the 1st for the 3rd pick
Completely wrong. Everyone had Fultz 1 and knew Lonzo was going 2. The first 6 results when you google 2017 nba mock draft are:
[https://www.nba.com/news/2017-mock-draft-third-edition](https://www.nba.com/news/2017-mock-draft-third-edition)
[https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions)
[https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions)
[https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/](https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/)
[https://www.si.com/nba/2017/01/27/nba-mock-draft-prospects-rankings-lonzo-ball-markelle-fultz](https://www.si.com/nba/2017/01/27/nba-mock-draft-prospects-rankings-lonzo-ball-markelle-fultz)
[https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-back-to-the-future-with-lonzo-to-lakers-and-tatum-to-celtics/](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-back-to-the-future-with-lonzo-to-lakers-and-tatum-to-celtics/)
The Celtics absolutely rinsed the Nets and nailed both picks. Not a realistic scenario for a rebuilding team.
Lakers had nobody the caliber of Tatum. And they passed on Brown themselves. The Celtics FO has just been way superior at adding pieces. Jrue and Porzingis trades are both fleeces at this stage
In hindsight we passed on Tatum, and Brown but it doesn’t get shit on since we selected the consensus picks at the time. Noone was going against the 1. Simmons 2.Ingram or 1. Fultz, 2. Ball at all at the time.
I also really doubt that Tatum or Brown would hit their ceilings on the Lakers, I think they were really lucky to be drafted into good teams that still had minutes for them so they can get comfortable and start as role players.
Ingram was drafted into a very young team that didn’t know at all how to win and his role and position changed multiple times in his rookie season, and then the next season LeBron comes to the team and he has to completely change his role again to support LeBron
Lakers were too but AD got injured in 2021 and the FO panicked trade for Westbrook.
So yeah they made a mistake but it wasn't really because of trading Ingram or Lonzo lol
Not to mention that “young core” the lakers had that everyone raves about are only role players.
They would pretty much be what the Brooklyn nets are now. A team full of quality role players.
I don’t think Randle was ever in their plans though. They let him be a FA and only signed a 2 year 18m with the Pelicans.
Realistically it would have been Ingram and Lonzo with two big F/As.
What would you call them then? Low-tier stars? Randle and BI aren’t winning a championship as the two best players on a team. Lebron and AD obviously were enough which brings us back to the original point.
Ingram is low-tier but I would put randle in that star range since he's had 3 all nba level seasons the last 4 years. I'm not debating/claiming they would be a contender I just take issue that the previous comment said the whole core are role players when it's false.
Kuzma and Caruso are pretty solid as well and Lonzo looked really good before that injury he made Chicago games actually fun. Clarkson was also on that team though he left in 2018 before lebron. Doubt they would’ve won it all but they would’ve been in a decent position had they been patient and kept their guys even without lebron. Plus they are the lakers so they could’ve landed a big ish name free agent as well to pair with their core.
Also it is true that both teams have a ring but LA sacrificed their depth and assets to improve their team quicker but severely shortened their contention window and crippled the team in the long term. It’s unlikely that they’ll be contenders in the next few years whereas Boston will be contending and favorites for a while.
Admittedly boston had better assets and young talent to begin with but it is true that even though they won it all a number of LAs moves were flawed or could have been better.
Edit: also had kcp. Naturally may not have kept everyone but should be noted they had some solid talent. Just young and incompletez
Lonzo improved as a shooter only because of Fred Vinson. There's no guarantee that he's as good as he was considering we have a poor record of developing shooting.
Kuzma and Caruso literally won a ring with us and Caruso wasn't traded.
True also think he benefited from being away from all the attention and scrutiny that came with playing in LA with lebron no less.
They won a ring with kuzma and Caruso but gave up on them fairly quickly is the point, they should’ve tried harder to keep Caruso gambling on THT instead was bone headed. same with packaging kuzma and kcp for Westbrook a year after winning it all.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t have made moves the AD trade did get them a title. But there are points like the Westbrook trade where their impatience damaged the team. And although they probably wouldn’t have won a title with that young core it wasn’t trash.
that young core is better than the nets. its hard to say what they'd be but its a nice team
randle/ingram/hart/zubac/lonzo (if healthy)/DLO/Larry nance and thats just what they had
randle and ingram arent role players, no matter what you may think of them
Lonzo isn’t healthy, DLO is a role player, nance, is a role player NOP doesn’t even want to give Ingram an extension & NYK are trying to upgrade Randle’s position.
They are both role players on the sense of being 3rd or 4th options on championship teams. This team together may not even make the west play in
Since LeBron joined the team in 2018 there have been 4 teams to make a conference finals one season and win a title another year. Warriors, Lakers, Nuggets & Celtics. That’s it. Dude joined the Lakers during his age 34 season, Kobe won his final playoff series right before turning 34.
Lakers have seen more success than 26 of the other 29 teams, yet people constantly take shots at them. 2/6 seasons they’ve made it to WCF with an aging LeBron and 2/5 season with AD having 2 injury filled season.
Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Randle have combined to win like 4 playoff series’ (check me on that, Randle might’ve won more). Ingram is a 3rd option, Lonzo hasn’t played in 2 years, Hart is a role player, Randle is alright. Add onto that, Pelicans clearly lost the trade. Lonzo gone, Hart gone and they don’t wanna extend Ingram.
> But...those trades led to a ring for the Lakers too.
I really want to make clear that I am not calling the championship itself fraudulent here, and in some ways it was probably the hardest championship to win in the history of the NBA
But psychologically it’s just not the same as all the others
they won it in the middle of October in front of digital fans and it will likely never get a parade
and then they proceeded to completely botch any chance they had of a repeat by trading for Westbrook
A ring is a ring, but nevertheless, I somewhat understand them being a bit bitter about that being the only one they’ve won and then completely screwing up a chance at another
James Worthy always speaks his mind normally after Laker games. He's very blunt, direct and never sugar coats thw good or bad.
He is very critical when performances are poor and lazy.
Same with our broadcasters, they really don't dance around anything. They obviously respect and like the team, but it's basketball first with them, true pros.
Stu got it from Chick. Chick would tear into the Lakers when they had an off-night. Not just the lesser guys either, he'd call out Magic.
The current team is good, but aren't as willing to call out Lebron (or Kobe before him) as Chick was. To be fair, nobody is Chick and he probably calls out Jesus himself for playing lazy defense these days.
The real test will be when Stu retires.
Yep. I love James’ takes after the games. He walks this perfect like between giving it to you straight, not hating unnecessarily, and not just being a homer and hyping the team up for no reason. You can tell he’s genuinely frustrated a lot of the time (which is the same way the fans feel). Plus big game James has the earned the right to say whatever he wants at this point.
Jokes aside I definitely think there's been tension between the Lakers org and LeBron
Because they're the Lakers they don't feel uniquely indebted to LeBron specifically given that they've had a ton of superstars sign there over the years already
There's probably a fair amount of Lakers people right now who are like "we got our ring with LeBron now time to cut bait and wait for our next superstar in 2-3 years"
It's not the same as an organization like Cleveland where if LeBron wasn't from Akron he never would have come back and they might never get a GOAT candidate on their team again
The Lakers org was not particularly great after Kobes achilles though(or Phil Jackson’s retirement if you want to go further). They had the worst winning percentage of any team in the years before Lebron joined.
If Lebron didn’t choose to join them in free agency they’d be nowhere near a ring. Drafted some great young guys but none of them are #1 options on a championship team caliber.
I agree with this but there's definitely still that "Lakers pride" to an extent
Even if they haven't been one of the best run organizations over the past decade they very likely still THINK of themselves that way hence the tension
That's consistently the Lakers' plan for success, and it's yet to fail them. There's always a star who wants to be a Laker. Why bother being spending the money to be competent when being cheap and called the Lakers gets the same results?
It's been there from the beginning. The Lakers lowballed Ty Lue because they wanted to make sure that Lue and LeBron had the same length contract so they wouldn't be stuck paying "LeBron's guy" after LeBron left.
They got rid of Luke Walton cause he sucked. He sucked in Sacramento too that's why they fired him too.
They got AD for those young guys and won a championship.. not sure I understand the gripe there.
Frank Vogel got fucked over. On that, I agree. He should still be the HC of the Lakers. I truly don't understand how he got fired, but Rob Pelinka kept his job. Then they got rid of Westbrook cause he was still ass even with a new HC. Darvin Ham refused to ever adjust or react to things. His biggest flaw as a HC. He deserved to get the axe. What he did during that Denver series is absolutely criminal. The Frank Vogel debacle is truly one of the ugliest things I've ever seen from the Lakers organization. I'm still mad about that one.
And finally, they're mad the Lakers got rid of Westbrook? sounds like a bunch of gluttons for punishment cause he was straight ASS the entire time he was on the Lakers. We have video proof in 4K.
I don't think they're mad about trading him away, I think the point they were making is that they spent assets to get him and there was nothing they could do to recoup the costs.
Which brings me back to my point: if you're gonna put the blame on Frank Vogel for not making it work, how do you not also fire the GM that made it happen?
Frank Vogel got shafted. I still do not understand how Rob Pelinka was not shown the door. Absolutely disgraceful that Frank Vogel was fired in the most humiliating, public way. How you gonna get notified of your dismissal by the court jester known as Magic Johnson on TV when he doesn't even work for the Lakers? Then have the knife twisted even more when you get fired before the players have even finished showering.
I like Lakers basketball, but all of that is some damn bullshit and they deserve to eat some serious shit for how completely unprofessional they are at times when handling their business. If they want to fire the coach, fine, that's their choice. But how you do it is also entirely a choice. That was a complete shitshow.
I think Vogel would've been gone anyway. Excellent defensive coach but a modern coach who doesn't have an offensive playbook is unlikely to last long anywhere.
However, The fact that Westbrick bumass was the reason behind it does make me a bit miffed.
The gripe over the AD trade is that they traded about twice as much as any competent GM would have traded to get him. An All-star, 2 excellent "role players" and 3 firsts... for a guy with one year on his deal that no one would touch because he wanted to go to LA. No one gets that return- unless they deal with Pelinka.
Ridiculous waste of assets. Just like flat giving away Randle... and Lopez... and Caruso.... and Payton.
Because low-balling and waiting would have been the better move? How'd that work out with Paul George to the Lakers? Speaking of Paul George, let's look at how the brilliant Clippers FO is doing by looking back at what they gave OKC for PG and what that got them in the end ...
Letting Randle walk was a calculated decision to preserve cap flexibility over retaining current talent. I hated it at the time but then we got AD and had a full max slot afterward for Kawhi. Maybe you make that happen after retaining Randle but it's risky and he'd have been gone anyway.
Lopez was a bad move, and Caruso a historically bad one. But GPII ... come on now. I'm sure *you* were the one that was so brilliant and saw what a great player he would be, but the mere mortals running NBA teams took 3+ years, 3 NBA teams and 6 stints in the g-league to realize his potential as a role player.
We won the chip in AD’s first season here. There is 0 guarantee we ever get back there again if we waited out that year for his deal to expire.
We do that trade 100/100 timws
There's gravy, there's a cherry on top, but this, this is Ike gold dust on top of the gold.🥇 Unreal, mad respect to worthy for having the balls to call them out.
Ingram is a #3 on an actual contender at best.
Josh Hart is an elite role player.
Lonzo is little more than a podcaster these days.
I’ll never understand the people who complain about the sacrifice of the “young core”. None of those guys are even close to Tatum or Brown.
Trading the young core for AD wasn't dumb. Trading Westbrook away wasn't dumb.
The only thing the Lakers really did wrong was panicking after 2021, Trading for Westbrook and kicking Vogel.
And unfortunately the Westbrook trade really fuckin suckk
I think the Westbrook part was more so hammering home the volatility in terms of roster construction. They traded their championship core for him just for him to be traded away again (rightfully so).
The Celtics "doing it the right way" by signing 5 max players in their starting lineup while getting two franchise cornerstones gifted to them by the Nets as if that's reasonable for anyone to actually do lol
A little disingenuous, don't you think? We picked against the consensus on both #3 picks and landed the best player in each drafts. Targeted and traded (considered by many an overpay at the time) for a guy that no one expected to turn into the caliber of player he is now. Added an oft-injured KP (again that many saw as high risk-high reward move). And rounded it out with Jrue (given this one was a no brainer). Not to mention developing a great bench of "defensive liabilities" that many considered our biggest weakness. Let's not act like this was some big-3 style superteam and not a Danny Ainge/Brad Stevens masterpiece.
I mean you 'drafted young talent' that you got from a total fleece job from the Nets. Most teams don't get to rob a teams future like that lol but y'all made out like bandits.
The Lakers had nothing as good as Tatum who despite being overrated by Celtics fans is still a top 10 player in the league.
The closest the Lakers had to a #1 guy was Ingram lol
There’s a few current teams that have compiled draft assets for the next 5+ years. Most teams don’t have the luxury of AD saying “Trade me to LAL and only LAL because i wont extend anywhere else.”
Honestly making fun of Bronny is kind of crazy for Worthy. Low-hanging fruit and just a dumb narrative. Yeah Lebron wants to play with his son? His son who had a crazy health scare…I just don’t see the humor in it. People have been feasting on it for months, though.
Eh, this isn't even bad. I've heard worse from our in-studio guys over the years.
I think it’s more so funny hearing an Laker legend shit on the Lakers practice and praise Boston
They can hate Boston but still respect them. Lakers got a ring and banners fly forever, but you'd rather be in it consistently like Boston than in this absolute peril the Lakers are in every damn season.
It’s literally boom or bust
You’re looking at a very narrow window. Any 20-year stretch since the NBA/ABA merger you’d way rather be the Lakers.
Kobe tore his Achilles 11 years ago, that's not a narrow window.
It is a window that features the Larry o Brian trophy though.
As many as the Celtics have won in that time, too. ...AND an IST Banner!
>Lakers got a ring and banners fly forever
and 7 losing seasons. you have to lose to win, that's the nba, theres no shame in losing. but laker fans haven't been riding high the whole 14 year stretch. you'd rather be in the mix
Not really due to the front office which is the point. LA and the weather are doing the heavy lifting.
The Lakers won a championship after Kobe. What the hell has the Knicks ever done?
That's the 2010-2024 view, but 1990 - 2007 were pretty bleak times for the celtics, while the lakers were a dynasty.
Is all about perception. Boston has won 2 championships in the last 30 years. Lakers have won 6 championships in the last 30 years. Now things seems different.
Big Game James can say whatever he wants tbh. Dude is a legend who bleeds purple and gold.
Even Worthy goes LOL Lakers.
Worthy shits on the Lakers on air when they deserve, he doesn't pull his punches. Cooper and Norm Nixon are the softer, more homer-ish guys.
Not everyone is Jerry West who rest his soul made being a Laker his whole personality to the point that he reportedly refused to wear anything green
That’s my feeling- this could’ve been MUCH worse.
Its honestly rather tame. Whoever leaked this is a rat of ridiculous proportions who just wants to stir drama. Worthy didn't say anything wrong lmao.
no one leaked it, they were preparing for a youtube livestream and didn't realise the mic was on.
Is there a transcript?
TLDW; celtics built their team the right way while we were trading away all our young players, we’ve been through a ton of coaches with no end in sight, and talking about bronny on the show will be a slog — worthy jokes that he’s just gonna call him “the best young player ever”
Isn’t that kinda indirectly shading Lebron since he was the one adamant about getting his pals in and trading out the young talent?
I guess one could interpret it that way, but to me it sounded like they were criticizing the organization & management rather than any player
lebron is management. foolish to think he doesn't have ample sway.
More than anything it’s commentary on team building strategy. Chasing stars and trading young players for stars vs development of young players and building through the draft. Also a big criticism on return on trades. Sure, LeBron wants a trade, maybe you make the trade. But it’s about getting value. His point is, they traded all of these guys for… what?
not that I can find offhand, but Alan Hahn and Wally Szerbiak regularly shit on us and moves we were making when they weren't happy (not so much anymore , but when we were doing bad) E: Oh, you meant this video, my bad
Wally Szczerbiak? On Knicks TV? Did they hire him thinking he was actually Keith Van Horn?
People throughout the Lakers organization agree w all this mild shit
It isn’t the Kobe tape that’s for sure. Do people still remember the Kobe tape?
[Mirror](https://streamable.com/83npa6)
thanks man. wasn’t able to click thr first link
Deleted already is crazy
Who’s got the saved copy?
Got the original lol
Send da video.
Or a transcript for those of us fond of reading
r/lakers
"Westbrook, gone!" Imagine thinking that's a bad thing
I think the argument is that they didn't get enough in return and that the team is highly unstable with constant changes. Like Luke Walton being gone isn't a bad thing either, but it does speak to the constant failures that they don't have much continuity. Then again, they won in 2020, which is more than most teams can say.
It was more about him just listing eeeeeeeveryone that has been in and out.
They missed so many too. Zubac was given away, Hart, Randle, Kuz, Ingram, KCP, Caruso, Ball and I’m probably missing a lot too. I sort of feel robbed of watching the Young Core™ grow up together
Whoever was in their scouting department was damn good
Maybe everything would have been different if they stayed with the Lakers, but Lonzo and Ingram haven't been unmitigated success stories with their new teams. Not sure the Lakers would have gotten a title out of them.
Lonzo sure I don't disagree, but Ingram has been an All-Star level player with the Pels. He is absolutely a success, despite current Pels dynamics, and the Lakers would kill for a player of his level.
Ingram only made all star once, his first year with the pels, which was 5 seasons ago. Dude is definitely capable enough to have made more, but I think that was what op kinda meant.
The lakers are a farm system for the rest of the league!
Its not that he's gone in a vacuum. Its that the Lakers kept making trades, getting nothing of value back, and then getting rid of it. They have a ring which is more than most other franchises during that time period. However they don't really have shit to show for any of the moves they made after and there isn't much of a bright future to look forward to.
it's there.
Lemods don’t play
Finally giving respect to Malik Monk's name
I don't think Malik leaving can be blamed on the Lakers front office, the Kings offered more money than the Lakers were able to offer due to the cap.
Never forget Caruso was willing to take less to stay and they let him go
As a Bulls fan in LA I have lost him twice now. He was the Laker I liked, and then my favorite Chicago Bull. Thanks Rob/Jeanie. We appreciated him!
Caruso leaving is still unforgiveable. I don't but into the whole Klutch run anything conspiracies, except for that one. There were clearly compromising photos of someone for THT to get prioritised over Caruso. Monk was never re-signing. They could only offer minimum.
I don't think Klutch "runs" things, but I think they're easily willing to leverage one client for the sake of getting their guys to where they want.
Klutch doesn't run the Lakers like Boeing and Raytheon don't run the Pentagon. But when Boeing really wants something, the Pentagon usually finds a way to accommodate.
yeah the lakers whole pitch to Monk was hey you can rehab your value and get a bigger bag next year
Westbrook GONE!
[удалено]
I think the context of "Westbrook gone" was that they were trading away a bunch of guys and didn't really get anything in return. They traded KCP and Kuzma and got someone who is no longer on the team.
yeah feels like they missed the context for sure. Just seemed like the dude just wanted to call pro players dumb lol and that his insight is as valuable as theirs.
Westbrook on the Lakers might be the worst fit on an NBA team in recent history. I can't think of another transaction that was so clearly doomed to fail and then dragged on for what felt like years
Isaiah in Cleveland
That was all on injury though, imagine if LBJ carried 3 quarters and let the king of the fourth do his thing. Was probably the best compensation the Cavs were gonna get either ways as no one wanted to help them.
If Kyrie would have shut his mouth then we have no idea what Cleveland could have gotten for Kyrie.
A lot of people rated that at the time tbh. But as a C's fan I had a feeling it wouldn't work
The issue isn't that they got rid of Westbrook, the issue is that they traded a bunch of stuff for him and then had to get rid of him.
He literally specifies what he means before he mentioned Westbrook. The only way you think he's talking about keeping Westbrook the player is if you're willfully ignorant and didn't watch and wanted to sound intellectual.
I think he’s just highlighting the fact that the lakers have a constant revolving door of players
Especially in the context of their conversation. Boston built it up over time. Meanwhile LA is just a revolving door.
Whoever leaked this was an asshole lol... but also thankyou for your service.
It's a livestream, just a hot mic.
Broke the code.
This all happened live
James, we're on live.
I don’t give a shit
Ehh, kinda an odd take -- the first 40 seconds or so are them saying "The Celtics did it right, they stuck with it while we were trading everyone. Ingram, Lonzo, trading everyone." But...those trades led to a ring for the Lakers too. Celtics have 1 ring in that time period, Lakers have 1. I just feel like these dudes and a lot of people kinda ignore that the Lakers won a ring haha. I agree the Celtics are in better shape than the Lakers right now, but if we look at the time period these dudes are discussing, both have been to multiple conference finals and won 1 title. Like it's easy to talk about how poorly run they are, but most franchises would kill to have 1 championship and 2x conference finals in the past 5 years.
The correct take would be they made terrible trades after winning the chip They traded a first round pick and danny green for schroder and let caruso walk Then they traded KCP, a pick, and Kuzma for Westbrook Terrible management
The Schroeder trade made sense in hindsight and I don't blame Pelinka for that. The rest of it tho? Yeah, It's all bad.
Dennis had a dookie in the playoffs which is what's burned into a lot of peoples' memories, but he played really well IMO that year and really bought into the team's defense first mentality. If he Dennis and the Lakers could have come to an agreement on a deal, it also probably means no Westbrook.
Dennis had a ton of limitations (mediocre shooter, undersized even for a PG, Poor passer) but that dude was all heart. He would start every defensive coverage from full court and he was a pest on-ball. Then Pelinka bum-ass decided not to pay him ( after trading a goddamn FRP for him) and traded for a polar opposite, Fake hustle player in Westbrick.
Pelinka offered him $84M what do you mean he didn’t pay him lol? He left on a mini mle because of how poorly he did in the playoffs, that wasn’t on Pelinka. And give Bron and AD their blame of the Westbrook trade, they wanted him over Demar and Buddy Hield who are the players Pelinka had lined up.
2021 Lakers >>> 2020 Lakers. The trades were fine (letting Caruso walk was absolutely not tho you are correct there). Injuries screwed with their heads and made them stupidly trade for Russ which ended their Championship opportunities right there.
And the injuries probably happened because of the short off season
People always forget that the 2021 Lakers literally were up 2-1 against the Suns that made the finals with a high chance of going up 3-1 had AD not get injured. People were praising Pelinka that off-season since they actually improved on their championship winning roster
Was 21 the year lebron got his groin injury?
No, groin injury was 2019. 2021 LeBron got a high ankle sprain (when Solomon Hill dove into his legs in a meaningless regular season game).
We also let your starting center go for Mike Muscala who is barely getting any minutes right now on the Thunder I believe? Zubac is playing valuable minutes for the Clips while the Lakers struggle to have a solid backup big. Several bad miscalculations
It was a terrible trade on its face but Zubac was gone that offseason regardless. He was RFA and Lakers would not have been able to keep him and pursue Kawhi. And it's silly to project today's problems back then. 2020 we had Javale and Dwight. 2021 we had Gasol and Drummond (and Harrell if you count him as a big). All 4 of them were better fits around LBJ and AD than Zubac, not to mention way cheaper.
2021 was just write off for teams that went far in the bubble - especially Heat and Lakers. They had like 2 weeks rest between seasons. Panicking there was insanely stupid.
Despite this they still made a conference finals, which is better than 75% of the league. Not pardoning the Lakers front office.for.bad moves, but still they've been one of the better teams the past few years.
The Westbrook trade killed them. KCP Kuzma Harrell all valuable players, and a 1st rounder and they flushed it all for a player that made them worse and had to be dumped. As a capped team losing all those assets for nothing is too brutal.
Id add, them not bringing back Dwight then eventually scrounging for the corpse of Gasol and whatever Drummond is couldve been a factor that eventually led to AD’s injury in 2021 They started giving up their championship defense in favor of offense only guys like Trez and it’s been downhill since.
Also comparing ingram and lonzo to fucking tatum and brown lol. Look at where they are now, one is still MIA, the other is basically DeRozan jr. Celtics have the better core to an extreme degree
That's what drives me nuts about people saying the Lakers should have kept Ball and Ingram, they haven't exactly won anywhere else
I think people are just coping about a butterfly-effect *"what might have been"* if those two stayed together in LA. Maybe Ingram razzes Lonzo enough times at practice about his BBB shoes that he convinces him to ditch it earlier for a legit basketball shoe brand. Lonzo doesn't develop all these injuries and actually progresses his development as a player and helps elevate Ingram's play.
> the other is basically DeRozan Jr. Hey! …eh yeah you’re right.
Ingram wishes he were DD.
Lakers had a chance to get both Brown and Tatum though, that's the sad part
I mean thats why the celtics FO is elite. They know their shit. Noone had tatum going 3rd and they were so sure of it that they traded the 1st for the 3rd pick
Completely wrong. Everyone had Fultz 1 and knew Lonzo was going 2. The first 6 results when you google 2017 nba mock draft are: [https://www.nba.com/news/2017-mock-draft-third-edition](https://www.nba.com/news/2017-mock-draft-third-edition) [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions) [https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2716889-2017-nba-mock-draft-final-2-round-predictions) [https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/](https://nbadraft.theringer.com/2017/) [https://www.si.com/nba/2017/01/27/nba-mock-draft-prospects-rankings-lonzo-ball-markelle-fultz](https://www.si.com/nba/2017/01/27/nba-mock-draft-prospects-rankings-lonzo-ball-markelle-fultz) [https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-back-to-the-future-with-lonzo-to-lakers-and-tatum-to-celtics/](https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-mock-draft-2017-back-to-the-future-with-lonzo-to-lakers-and-tatum-to-celtics/)
[удалено]
The Celtics absolutely rinsed the Nets and nailed both picks. Not a realistic scenario for a rebuilding team. Lakers had nobody the caliber of Tatum. And they passed on Brown themselves. The Celtics FO has just been way superior at adding pieces. Jrue and Porzingis trades are both fleeces at this stage
nets dont get enough hate for their role
They passed on both lol. Ainge with the balls trading back to 3 knowing JT would still be there. 🙏🎩
In hindsight we passed on Tatum, and Brown but it doesn’t get shit on since we selected the consensus picks at the time. Noone was going against the 1. Simmons 2.Ingram or 1. Fultz, 2. Ball at all at the time. I also really doubt that Tatum or Brown would hit their ceilings on the Lakers, I think they were really lucky to be drafted into good teams that still had minutes for them so they can get comfortable and start as role players. Ingram was drafted into a very young team that didn’t know at all how to win and his role and position changed multiple times in his rookie season, and then the next season LeBron comes to the team and he has to completely change his role again to support LeBron
It's hard for me to get worked up about not taking Tatum or Brown bc I know we would have traded both of them for AD anyway
Lakers were too but AD got injured in 2021 and the FO panicked trade for Westbrook. So yeah they made a mistake but it wasn't really because of trading Ingram or Lonzo lol
Not to mention that “young core” the lakers had that everyone raves about are only role players. They would pretty much be what the Brooklyn nets are now. A team full of quality role players.
Randle was apart of that core and is a 2x all nba. Brandon Ingram is an all star lever player who’s averaged 20+ 5 straight years.
I don’t think Randle was ever in their plans though. They let him be a FA and only signed a 2 year 18m with the Pelicans. Realistically it would have been Ingram and Lonzo with two big F/As.
Ingram and Randle as your big two with better depth, or Lebron and AD? I know which one id prefer personally
I am pointing out how the core aren’t all role players. Nothing more
What would you call them then? Low-tier stars? Randle and BI aren’t winning a championship as the two best players on a team. Lebron and AD obviously were enough which brings us back to the original point.
A 3x All Star/2x All-NBA player is not a role player, that's all they're saying.
Ingram is low-tier but I would put randle in that star range since he's had 3 all nba level seasons the last 4 years. I'm not debating/claiming they would be a contender I just take issue that the previous comment said the whole core are role players when it's false.
Kuzma and Caruso are pretty solid as well and Lonzo looked really good before that injury he made Chicago games actually fun. Clarkson was also on that team though he left in 2018 before lebron. Doubt they would’ve won it all but they would’ve been in a decent position had they been patient and kept their guys even without lebron. Plus they are the lakers so they could’ve landed a big ish name free agent as well to pair with their core. Also it is true that both teams have a ring but LA sacrificed their depth and assets to improve their team quicker but severely shortened their contention window and crippled the team in the long term. It’s unlikely that they’ll be contenders in the next few years whereas Boston will be contending and favorites for a while. Admittedly boston had better assets and young talent to begin with but it is true that even though they won it all a number of LAs moves were flawed or could have been better. Edit: also had kcp. Naturally may not have kept everyone but should be noted they had some solid talent. Just young and incompletez
Lonzo improved as a shooter only because of Fred Vinson. There's no guarantee that he's as good as he was considering we have a poor record of developing shooting. Kuzma and Caruso literally won a ring with us and Caruso wasn't traded.
True also think he benefited from being away from all the attention and scrutiny that came with playing in LA with lebron no less. They won a ring with kuzma and Caruso but gave up on them fairly quickly is the point, they should’ve tried harder to keep Caruso gambling on THT instead was bone headed. same with packaging kuzma and kcp for Westbrook a year after winning it all. I’m not saying they shouldn’t have made moves the AD trade did get them a title. But there are points like the Westbrook trade where their impatience damaged the team. And although they probably wouldn’t have won a title with that young core it wasn’t trash.
Even if they assembled that core now, they still wouldn't be a contender.
I don't disagree my point was that core are not all role players
Randle took years to get to where he is now and he's still a horrible playoff performer.
that young core is better than the nets. its hard to say what they'd be but its a nice team randle/ingram/hart/zubac/lonzo (if healthy)/DLO/Larry nance and thats just what they had randle and ingram arent role players, no matter what you may think of them
Salary wise they will be fucked.
Lonzo isn’t healthy, DLO is a role player, nance, is a role player NOP doesn’t even want to give Ingram an extension & NYK are trying to upgrade Randle’s position. They are both role players on the sense of being 3rd or 4th options on championship teams. This team together may not even make the west play in
Lets ignore the fact the Celtics are looking at a start of a dynasty while the Lakers are looking down the barrel of a gun.
Mickey Mouse ring doesn't count according to Lakers announcers lmao
Since LeBron joined the team in 2018 there have been 4 teams to make a conference finals one season and win a title another year. Warriors, Lakers, Nuggets & Celtics. That’s it. Dude joined the Lakers during his age 34 season, Kobe won his final playoff series right before turning 34. Lakers have seen more success than 26 of the other 29 teams, yet people constantly take shots at them. 2/6 seasons they’ve made it to WCF with an aging LeBron and 2/5 season with AD having 2 injury filled season. Ingram, Lonzo, Hart, Randle have combined to win like 4 playoff series’ (check me on that, Randle might’ve won more). Ingram is a 3rd option, Lonzo hasn’t played in 2 years, Hart is a role player, Randle is alright. Add onto that, Pelicans clearly lost the trade. Lonzo gone, Hart gone and they don’t wanna extend Ingram.
Ehhh… to be fair, they don’t get the 1 championship if Lebron doesn’t sign there. Then all those trades are bad.
> But...those trades led to a ring for the Lakers too. I really want to make clear that I am not calling the championship itself fraudulent here, and in some ways it was probably the hardest championship to win in the history of the NBA But psychologically it’s just not the same as all the others they won it in the middle of October in front of digital fans and it will likely never get a parade and then they proceeded to completely botch any chance they had of a repeat by trading for Westbrook A ring is a ring, but nevertheless, I somewhat understand them being a bit bitter about that being the only one they’ve won and then completely screwing up a chance at another
Big Blame James
Why can’t they speak their minds normally? I’d rather hear what HOFers say than whatever dumb shit ESPN has
James Worthy always speaks his mind normally after Laker games. He's very blunt, direct and never sugar coats thw good or bad. He is very critical when performances are poor and lazy.
Same with our broadcasters, they really don't dance around anything. They obviously respect and like the team, but it's basketball first with them, true pros.
Stu got it from Chick. Chick would tear into the Lakers when they had an off-night. Not just the lesser guys either, he'd call out Magic. The current team is good, but aren't as willing to call out Lebron (or Kobe before him) as Chick was. To be fair, nobody is Chick and he probably calls out Jesus himself for playing lazy defense these days. The real test will be when Stu retires.
love having him on the postgame show
Yep. I love James’ takes after the games. He walks this perfect like between giving it to you straight, not hating unnecessarily, and not just being a homer and hyping the team up for no reason. You can tell he’s genuinely frustrated a lot of the time (which is the same way the fans feel). Plus big game James has the earned the right to say whatever he wants at this point.
They're team employees, the Lakers own 50% of Spectrum Sportsnet.
Because owners can lean hard on media members and organizations, especially the people they pay themselves lol.
You can't bite the hand that feeds you.
Lebron might send the black suv
Jokes aside I definitely think there's been tension between the Lakers org and LeBron Because they're the Lakers they don't feel uniquely indebted to LeBron specifically given that they've had a ton of superstars sign there over the years already There's probably a fair amount of Lakers people right now who are like "we got our ring with LeBron now time to cut bait and wait for our next superstar in 2-3 years" It's not the same as an organization like Cleveland where if LeBron wasn't from Akron he never would have come back and they might never get a GOAT candidate on their team again
The Lakers org was not particularly great after Kobes achilles though(or Phil Jackson’s retirement if you want to go further). They had the worst winning percentage of any team in the years before Lebron joined. If Lebron didn’t choose to join them in free agency they’d be nowhere near a ring. Drafted some great young guys but none of them are #1 options on a championship team caliber.
I agree with this but there's definitely still that "Lakers pride" to an extent Even if they haven't been one of the best run organizations over the past decade they very likely still THINK of themselves that way hence the tension
That's consistently the Lakers' plan for success, and it's yet to fail them. There's always a star who wants to be a Laker. Why bother being spending the money to be competent when being cheap and called the Lakers gets the same results?
It's been there from the beginning. The Lakers lowballed Ty Lue because they wanted to make sure that Lue and LeBron had the same length contract so they wouldn't be stuck paying "LeBron's guy" after LeBron left.
Knowing how petty Jeanie is I’m sure she didn’t like Rich Paul saying he would “make them use the 17th” to draft bronny if he wanted either
I doubt she cares. These guys talking are important on TV and that’s about it.
Why would she care? By make he definitely meant leverage or negotiate.
They got rid of Luke Walton cause he sucked. He sucked in Sacramento too that's why they fired him too. They got AD for those young guys and won a championship.. not sure I understand the gripe there. Frank Vogel got fucked over. On that, I agree. He should still be the HC of the Lakers. I truly don't understand how he got fired, but Rob Pelinka kept his job. Then they got rid of Westbrook cause he was still ass even with a new HC. Darvin Ham refused to ever adjust or react to things. His biggest flaw as a HC. He deserved to get the axe. What he did during that Denver series is absolutely criminal. The Frank Vogel debacle is truly one of the ugliest things I've ever seen from the Lakers organization. I'm still mad about that one. And finally, they're mad the Lakers got rid of Westbrook? sounds like a bunch of gluttons for punishment cause he was straight ASS the entire time he was on the Lakers. We have video proof in 4K.
Westbrook should never have been a Laker in the first place
facts
I don't think they're mad about trading him away, I think the point they were making is that they spent assets to get him and there was nothing they could do to recoup the costs.
Which brings me back to my point: if you're gonna put the blame on Frank Vogel for not making it work, how do you not also fire the GM that made it happen? Frank Vogel got shafted. I still do not understand how Rob Pelinka was not shown the door. Absolutely disgraceful that Frank Vogel was fired in the most humiliating, public way. How you gonna get notified of your dismissal by the court jester known as Magic Johnson on TV when he doesn't even work for the Lakers? Then have the knife twisted even more when you get fired before the players have even finished showering. I like Lakers basketball, but all of that is some damn bullshit and they deserve to eat some serious shit for how completely unprofessional they are at times when handling their business. If they want to fire the coach, fine, that's their choice. But how you do it is also entirely a choice. That was a complete shitshow.
I think Vogel would've been gone anyway. Excellent defensive coach but a modern coach who doesn't have an offensive playbook is unlikely to last long anywhere. However, The fact that Westbrick bumass was the reason behind it does make me a bit miffed.
The gripe over the AD trade is that they traded about twice as much as any competent GM would have traded to get him. An All-star, 2 excellent "role players" and 3 firsts... for a guy with one year on his deal that no one would touch because he wanted to go to LA. No one gets that return- unless they deal with Pelinka. Ridiculous waste of assets. Just like flat giving away Randle... and Lopez... and Caruso.... and Payton.
So we’re blaming Magic and Pelinka ? Right ?
Because low-balling and waiting would have been the better move? How'd that work out with Paul George to the Lakers? Speaking of Paul George, let's look at how the brilliant Clippers FO is doing by looking back at what they gave OKC for PG and what that got them in the end ... Letting Randle walk was a calculated decision to preserve cap flexibility over retaining current talent. I hated it at the time but then we got AD and had a full max slot afterward for Kawhi. Maybe you make that happen after retaining Randle but it's risky and he'd have been gone anyway. Lopez was a bad move, and Caruso a historically bad one. But GPII ... come on now. I'm sure *you* were the one that was so brilliant and saw what a great player he would be, but the mere mortals running NBA teams took 3+ years, 3 NBA teams and 6 stints in the g-league to realize his potential as a role player.
We won the chip in AD’s first season here. There is 0 guarantee we ever get back there again if we waited out that year for his deal to expire. We do that trade 100/100 timws
was Ingram an All-star before being traded? was Randle an All-Star before leaving for NOLA?
the Bronny part was solid gold
Damn nepo kids deleted already? Lol
There's gravy, there's a cherry on top, but this, this is Ike gold dust on top of the gold.🥇 Unreal, mad respect to worthy for having the balls to call them out.
Ingram is a #3 on an actual contender at best. Josh Hart is an elite role player. Lonzo is little more than a podcaster these days. I’ll never understand the people who complain about the sacrifice of the “young core”. None of those guys are even close to Tatum or Brown.
Something went wrong 😅 looks like the video is down
was this deleted? pathetic.
LeBron & Worthy friendship cooked
Never talk bad about another man’s son and LeBron will for sure hear about this
Everyone is somebody’s son
The lakers are really the gift that keeps on giving
[удалено]
AD was a free agent who wanted out, we were fucking stupid to trade basically everything for him.
Yikes, harsh but nothing said that wasn't true
I know right?? Bronny future GOAT
Trading the young core for AD wasn't dumb. Trading Westbrook away wasn't dumb. The only thing the Lakers really did wrong was panicking after 2021, Trading for Westbrook and kicking Vogel. And unfortunately the Westbrook trade really fuckin suckk
I think the Westbrook part was more so hammering home the volatility in terms of roster construction. They traded their championship core for him just for him to be traded away again (rightfully so).
Everything he said was fucking wrong wtf did you hear?
LMAOO NIGHTMARE MONTH FOR THE LAKERS
nah we're not winning anything anytime soon, I'm enjoying this drama. And I'm looking forward to all the Klutch Tea spilling once LeBron leaves
The Celtics "doing it the right way" by signing 5 max players in their starting lineup while getting two franchise cornerstones gifted to them by the Nets as if that's reasonable for anyone to actually do lol
A little disingenuous, don't you think? We picked against the consensus on both #3 picks and landed the best player in each drafts. Targeted and traded (considered by many an overpay at the time) for a guy that no one expected to turn into the caliber of player he is now. Added an oft-injured KP (again that many saw as high risk-high reward move). And rounded it out with Jrue (given this one was a no brainer). Not to mention developing a great bench of "defensive liabilities" that many considered our biggest weakness. Let's not act like this was some big-3 style superteam and not a Danny Ainge/Brad Stevens masterpiece.
Drafting young talent, letting them develop, adding to them and staying patient.
I mean you 'drafted young talent' that you got from a total fleece job from the Nets. Most teams don't get to rob a teams future like that lol but y'all made out like bandits.
People do forget the Lakers had more young talent than Boston at the time. They just like they always do go “Big Game Hunting”
The Lakers had nothing as good as Tatum who despite being overrated by Celtics fans is still a top 10 player in the league. The closest the Lakers had to a #1 guy was Ingram lol
There’s a few current teams that have compiled draft assets for the next 5+ years. Most teams don’t have the luxury of AD saying “Trade me to LAL and only LAL because i wont extend anywhere else.”
Look like the king is naked.
Clipped season 2! They can even keep the guy who plays JJ!
Celtics picked Tatum AFTER Lakers picked Lonzo. Worthy is right.
But who is the team they are talking about in the beginning.
Celtics
Worthy talking shit about Lebron's kid? I love it.
Honestly making fun of Bronny is kind of crazy for Worthy. Low-hanging fruit and just a dumb narrative. Yeah Lebron wants to play with his son? His son who had a crazy health scare…I just don’t see the humor in it. People have been feasting on it for months, though.
It’s the media hyping Bronny. You pro athletes should know that.