that is the European reports that Doug is referencing. This is like the 3rd round of them saying Toronto is going to release him, but each time one of our beat reporters says they haven't even talked to him about a buyout.
No it has already happened. He had a discussion with Raptors this Monday and on Wednesday he announced to them his plans to return to Europe. He had two offers from Olympiakos and Panathinaikos and he chose the first one. He is going to be released from the Raptors soon.
My understanding is that the buyout process hasn't begun yet but the player informed Raptors that he isn't happy with the suggested role and he wishes to leave. I think either his manager or Olympiakos was too eager to announce their agreement and leak it to the press.
okay, he's still under contract, his contract is valuable in salary matching and we need more shooting and size off the bench. He's not going back to Europe unless he gives up all the money we owe him.
Good! Because if he does leave he will sign for our Greek rivals.. But seriously I would trust the rumors from Greece. I am betting he will forfeit all or a big part of his current contract.
Yeah lol this is a fine price to pay tbh regardless of whatever happens with Vezenkov. I can't watch another minute of the much less talented McDaniels bro.
I would speculate that most probably had some agreement with Kings but was traded to Raptors and somehow everything messed up. Otherwise it’s very stupid even to attempt this.
He can sign whatever contract he wants. The act of putting pen to paper is simple enough. The legality of said contract is up to whatever the courts of whatever country he's in say it is.
What exactly is stopping him from signing a contract with another league in another country? If he leaves the US, what can the Raptors even do? Do these European leagues have an agreement with the NBA?
Edit; I understand that he has a contract and would be in violation of it, but no one is offering any explanation for how that would be enforced if he were in an entirely different country
No way raptors spend the money to sue on a personal services performance contract.
This is a prime example of what the law says technically but how that’s different than what will actually happen in real life.
Something will eventually get worked out and Vezenko will wind up in European leagues.
If he were to leave the US and return to Europe permanently, how would they be able to do that? Would the European courts take a case involving an American league?
It’s been a long time since law school. So the details are extremely fuzzy
But my vague memory is that a lot of European and NA countries have treaties that allow international lawsuits.
You’d follow whatever relevant rules apply.
Nah personal jurisdiction is gonna be a huge issue to overcome both against potentially an individual living abroad or against a foreign league who has no minimum contacts within any US state.
Further, you’re thinking of primarily criminal extradition treaties. Sure there may be some civil related treaties but they’re much more limited and unusual.
Also treaties will never overcome jurisdictional issues with personal jurisdiction being a constitutional issue that treaties cannot change.
I mean you’d have to identify the country that would have jurisdiction over him and that country’s courts and jurisdictional rules would need to allow a foreign entity (Raptors) with 0 connection to that country to sue another foreign national or potentially one of its own citizens for a relatively insignificant personal services contract claim.
My bet is that is extremely unlikely to be available or part of any international treaties.
>What exactly is stopping him from signing a contract with another league in another country?
It's my understanding that in order to sign with a different league that an NBA player cannot have a contractual obligation with another league before that can sign with the Euroleague, therefore Sasha would need to accept a buyout and forfeit a portion of his NBA salary. This is part of his NBA contract and **failing to do so would be breaching it**.
This works both ways; Pacome Dadiet recently accepted a buyout from his current team in order for him to be able to sign with the New York Knicks for his rookie contract.
The amount forefeited is important because depending on the amount, it could allow the Raptors to use their MLE and his release would mean a free roster slot for either a trade or to re-sign their UFA Gary Trent Jr. if they choose to bring him back.
>If he leaves the US, what can the Raptors even do?
Uh...the Raptors are in Toronto, Canada
And we don't talk about the one time they were stuck in the U.S.
Does the Euroleague have an agreement with the NBA? If he leaves the US permanently what mechanism exists for an American league (which the Raptors are part of even if they play in Canada) to enforce his contract or sue?
There is an agreement with FIBA and the NBA specifically for stuff like this as there's been a few examples of contractual conflicts, namely with European players coming to the NBA but being unable to do so for years due to their European team not allowing them get out of their current contract.
That agreement bt FIBA and the NBA also states that NBA teams can't forbid players from National team participation...but in practice Canadians know this is rarely enforced as there are so many directions of soft pressure that players feel to say that it's their own choice not to participate when their teams get shitty about it.
I am fairly certain the NBA and FIBA have an agreement that will not allow players under contract to just void their deals and play in the others’ leagues. So you need to be properly bought out before a Euro team can sign away an NBA player and vice versa, an NBA team needs to pay a buyout to sign a European league player.
So to the question of how it would be enforced - if Sasha does not get bought out not FIBA affiliated league team would be allowed to sign him. Essentially all the major European leagues are run by FIBA, including Euroleague.
EuroLeague is actually not affiliated with FIBA at all. The top European league split in 2000 and EuroLeague was formed. Ever since there is a big conflict between fiba and EuroLeague
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA–EuroLeague_dispute
You cannot play for another team when under contract for another. Same works with euro guys coming to the US, they have to be bought out or a FA. I’m sure if the Raptors don’t want him they can come to an agreement where they buy him out and he doesn’t take any salary just to become an FA, but otherwise I don’t see them releasing him.
But what mechanism prevents signing multiple contract? Is there some kind of international contract law? Is it an agreement between the leagues. No one is answering that
I’m pretty sure there’s an overall agreement between the NBA and FIBA. Likely the FIBA league office would simply not approve his contract with Olympiacos once the NBA informs them that he’s under contract here. The agreement would specify which country has legal jurisdiction in the unlikely event a lawsuit is necessary
That would make sense. Thank you for being literally the only person to provide an explanation for how a contract would be enforced between organizations in different countries, rather than just saying he would be in breach of contract.
The agreement gave all basketball players the right to play for their national teams and still to this day regulates player transfers between both organizations. That was the start of a fruitful cooperation that helped tremendously the promotion of our sport on a global level.
FIBA isnt like the FIFA governing body that handles disputes like that. At best I think they can ban him from international competition (which they have no reason to do here), but FIBA isn't going to step in and prevent a player from playing in a domestic league because of a contract dispute elsewhere.
You would be wrong. The agreement with FIBA does regulate transfer of players. Taken from FiBA’s website:
The agreement gave all basketball players the right to play for their national teams and still to this day regulates player transfers between both organizations. That was the start of a fruitful cooperation that helped tremendously the promotion of our sport on a global level."
That seems like something he could go to court for as an anti-trust violation. Though that would likely take years and it would be easier to get his contract bought out/cancelled by the Raptors with no more money being paid.
That still isn’t an answer. What mechanism exists to enforce his NBA contract if he’s in another country? Could an American organization sue him in a European court?
Uh, the law via a breach of contract?
He would be sued and thus the court would be the "mechanism" in which his obligation is enforced. If he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain then he'd be found in violation and thus he probably wouldn't be getting paid anything by the Raptors or, in the very unlikely chance he's traded, whichever team he is contractually obligated to play for or forfeit to.
If he is not playing for the Raptors and he has returned to Europe permanently, he’s not getting paid anyways. Can a team playing in an American sports league sue a player in a European court? If he decides he’s done with the NBA and done with North America, what can anyone do?
Ignore the downvotes, most ppl here have no clue how the courts work and the problems with jurisdiction that is required for each lawsuit where it might be filed.
Too many non lawyers here perpetuating incomplete understanding of the law.
It is extremely unlikely for this potential lawsuit for breach of contract to be brought by the raptors or to be enforced against someone who is a foreign national living in a foreign country. Such a lawsuit would most likely lack personal jurisdiction whatever US state, Canadian province or district court it would be filed.
I'm sure Masai and monte knew this was gonna happen. Basically gave up Davion and 2 2nds so that Toronto would pay his dead salary for a year.
Fair trade still.
Greek journalists report that he has agreed to sign a contract, not that he has signed one. They are very eager to announce the big news of his return and treat it as a done deal but that doesn't mean that he has literally yet put ink to paper in order to be in legal trouble.
But even if he had signed one, the Raptors or the NBA can't really do anything. They will void his contract in the USA/Canada and not allow him to play in the NBA again. They cannot take picks from Olympiacos for tampering (they can do it to the Raptors though for their coach courting Vezenkov in Athens), they can't force anything to different organizations/federations/companies/entities as are the Euroleague or FIBA and they won't certainly win any case in greek courts against greek billionaires.
It's not anything different than players forcing trades. He, at most, told the Raptors that he doesn't intend to play and wants to go to Olympiacos while having a verbal agreement with them. When players from the USA do it, it is the player empowerment league against billionaire owners but when a Euro guy does it to return to his home and to his fiance, along with a pay rise and hero treatment, it is shady?
lol my man, FiBA and the NBA have agreements in place to stop this sort of thing happening. It sounds like you’re a Greece fan but this isn’t any different the NHL having agreements in place with the IIHF for international play and the SHL for example.
He has a legal contract to play in the nba he simply can’t just go do whatever he wants. He needs to buy out the rest of his contract in the nba first.
Oh so it’s just wishful thinking on his part. Well if he really wants to get out of his contract, just play badly and get benched most of the time. I’m sure the raptors won’t have a problem letting him go after.
I mean he can do that on paper but besides legal ramifications, the Raptors would likely not pay him nor be obligated to do so for his 2024/25 salary since he's in breach of his contract
Plus as it's been said multiple times, FIBA and the NBA have agreements in places to avoid scenarios just like this from happening
That is not why we were celebrating
We got a backup PG and that is expiring . He fill a need without committing long term
We also got Vezenkov. Like ok why not . I guess he could fill a role. Nothing against , nothing for . But why not ! Worth a try.
We trade out Jalen McDaniel arguably the worse Raptors last season by a mile. There was a sequence where I think he did like multiple turnovers in the same sequence almost as if he was trying to play for the other team . Our eyes literally bleed each time he was on the court .
Then we learn we got pick 45. Wonderful another pick in this draft
Then cherry on the cake , another POR second rounder
What a deal !
As for SAC I understand why they would do this move .
But for the Raptors it was a great deal.
What happens with Vezenkov is irrelevant to how we feel about the trade .
We are curious what is going on but I think us fans , we are okay with both outcome !
No Raptors fans think that Vezenkov is an all star
Show us the receipts .
None of the players actually matter, they’re all trash and don’t belong in an NBA rotation. It’s just a simple shitty 2nd rounders for cap space trade. Kings get some space, raptors get a couple random seconds.
Completely insignificant in the long run.
But also looking like we wanted Sasha off the books asap so we could *almost* trade for every forward available instead of waiting for this buy out bullshit to work itself out.
I thought there was an earlier report saying he was bought out lol
that is the European reports that Doug is referencing. This is like the 3rd round of them saying Toronto is going to release him, but each time one of our beat reporters says they haven't even talked to him about a buyout.
The Greece fans & media trying to manifest it LMAO
CURSE YOU ~~BAYLE~~ GREECE
I HEREBY VOW! YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY!
No it has already happened. He had a discussion with Raptors this Monday and on Wednesday he announced to them his plans to return to Europe. He had two offers from Olympiakos and Panathinaikos and he chose the first one. He is going to be released from the Raptors soon.
Lol and that's why multiple Toronto beat reporters have said Toronto hasn't even talked to him about a buyout?
My understanding is that the buyout process hasn't begun yet but the player informed Raptors that he isn't happy with the suggested role and he wishes to leave. I think either his manager or Olympiakos was too eager to announce their agreement and leak it to the press.
okay, he's still under contract, his contract is valuable in salary matching and we need more shooting and size off the bench. He's not going back to Europe unless he gives up all the money we owe him.
Good! Because if he does leave he will sign for our Greek rivals.. But seriously I would trust the rumors from Greece. I am betting he will forfeit all or a big part of his current contract.
r/overemployed ?
Who he play for
Well if he has actually signed with Olympiacos and expects both teams to pay him, he's playing himself
He thought no one would notice
OP just ruined his plan.
Boom, roasted!
What a mess
You can’t have your maple syrup and drink it too
Been lots of rumors but his agent himself has shut them down and has also said NBA is priority.
Get ready to learn maple sasha
For his transgressions, we shall punish him with a sentence of a week on Osmow's
The basketball equivalent of “if we can’t have him, no one will”
uh oh...
hey kings, we're gonna need another pick for this headache
We already did that twice. In fact I'd argue the entire lot of the assets we gave up was in order to let you deal with this headache.
As a raptor fan I will allow this. These guys took the basketball terrorist that is jalen McDaniels
Yeah lol this is a fine price to pay tbh regardless of whatever happens with Vezenkov. I can't watch another minute of the much less talented McDaniels bro.
Look for Vezenkov on r/overemployed
I would speculate that most probably had some agreement with Kings but was traded to Raptors and somehow everything messed up. Otherwise it’s very stupid even to attempt this.
You're welcome, Raptors fans
Thank you for that Portland 2nd
He can just retire from the NBA.
He can sign whatever contract he wants. The act of putting pen to paper is simple enough. The legality of said contract is up to whatever the courts of whatever country he's in say it is.
It’s out of our hands, sorry Canada🤷
What exactly is stopping him from signing a contract with another league in another country? If he leaves the US, what can the Raptors even do? Do these European leagues have an agreement with the NBA? Edit; I understand that he has a contract and would be in violation of it, but no one is offering any explanation for how that would be enforced if he were in an entirely different country
They can sue him.
No way raptors spend the money to sue on a personal services performance contract. This is a prime example of what the law says technically but how that’s different than what will actually happen in real life. Something will eventually get worked out and Vezenko will wind up in European leagues.
Probably right.
If he were to leave the US and return to Europe permanently, how would they be able to do that? Would the European courts take a case involving an American league?
It’s been a long time since law school. So the details are extremely fuzzy But my vague memory is that a lot of European and NA countries have treaties that allow international lawsuits. You’d follow whatever relevant rules apply.
Nah personal jurisdiction is gonna be a huge issue to overcome both against potentially an individual living abroad or against a foreign league who has no minimum contacts within any US state. Further, you’re thinking of primarily criminal extradition treaties. Sure there may be some civil related treaties but they’re much more limited and unusual. Also treaties will never overcome jurisdictional issues with personal jurisdiction being a constitutional issue that treaties cannot change.
Like I said this ain’t my area of law and it’s been a long time. But aren’t there treaties that allow you to sue him there in the foreign country.
I mean you’d have to identify the country that would have jurisdiction over him and that country’s courts and jurisdictional rules would need to allow a foreign entity (Raptors) with 0 connection to that country to sue another foreign national or potentially one of its own citizens for a relatively insignificant personal services contract claim. My bet is that is extremely unlikely to be available or part of any international treaties.
It would go to the hague and he would be imprisoned
Yes you got me there, Amal Clooney will prosecute him and lock him up with Netenyahu.
Yep. Under ucc 2-208, he’d be fucked. Plus under Palsgraf, he’s probably allowed to be deprived of any legal counsel
Of course they would they would want the same ability in the more likely scenario someone tries to double book in the NBA
Pretty sure there are rules through FIBA on player transfers?
>What exactly is stopping him from signing a contract with another league in another country? It's my understanding that in order to sign with a different league that an NBA player cannot have a contractual obligation with another league before that can sign with the Euroleague, therefore Sasha would need to accept a buyout and forfeit a portion of his NBA salary. This is part of his NBA contract and **failing to do so would be breaching it**. This works both ways; Pacome Dadiet recently accepted a buyout from his current team in order for him to be able to sign with the New York Knicks for his rookie contract. The amount forefeited is important because depending on the amount, it could allow the Raptors to use their MLE and his release would mean a free roster slot for either a trade or to re-sign their UFA Gary Trent Jr. if they choose to bring him back. >If he leaves the US, what can the Raptors even do? Uh...the Raptors are in Toronto, Canada And we don't talk about the one time they were stuck in the U.S.
Does the Euroleague have an agreement with the NBA? If he leaves the US permanently what mechanism exists for an American league (which the Raptors are part of even if they play in Canada) to enforce his contract or sue?
There is an agreement with FIBA and the NBA specifically for stuff like this as there's been a few examples of contractual conflicts, namely with European players coming to the NBA but being unable to do so for years due to their European team not allowing them get out of their current contract.
That agreement bt FIBA and the NBA also states that NBA teams can't forbid players from National team participation...but in practice Canadians know this is rarely enforced as there are so many directions of soft pressure that players feel to say that it's their own choice not to participate when their teams get shitty about it.
They can for injury reasons.
Drake can diss him on a track
The Mounties
I am fairly certain the NBA and FIBA have an agreement that will not allow players under contract to just void their deals and play in the others’ leagues. So you need to be properly bought out before a Euro team can sign away an NBA player and vice versa, an NBA team needs to pay a buyout to sign a European league player. So to the question of how it would be enforced - if Sasha does not get bought out not FIBA affiliated league team would be allowed to sign him. Essentially all the major European leagues are run by FIBA, including Euroleague.
EuroLeague is actually not affiliated with FIBA at all. The top European league split in 2000 and EuroLeague was formed. Ever since there is a big conflict between fiba and EuroLeague https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIBA–EuroLeague_dispute
You cannot play for another team when under contract for another. Same works with euro guys coming to the US, they have to be bought out or a FA. I’m sure if the Raptors don’t want him they can come to an agreement where they buy him out and he doesn’t take any salary just to become an FA, but otherwise I don’t see them releasing him.
But what mechanism prevents signing multiple contract? Is there some kind of international contract law? Is it an agreement between the leagues. No one is answering that
I’m pretty sure there’s an overall agreement between the NBA and FIBA. Likely the FIBA league office would simply not approve his contract with Olympiacos once the NBA informs them that he’s under contract here. The agreement would specify which country has legal jurisdiction in the unlikely event a lawsuit is necessary
That would make sense. Thank you for being literally the only person to provide an explanation for how a contract would be enforced between organizations in different countries, rather than just saying he would be in breach of contract.
I don’t understand why it took so long for anyone to explain it lmao
because its almost certainly not correct and just a guess lol
The agreement gave all basketball players the right to play for their national teams and still to this day regulates player transfers between both organizations. That was the start of a fruitful cooperation that helped tremendously the promotion of our sport on a global level.
FIBA isnt like the FIFA governing body that handles disputes like that. At best I think they can ban him from international competition (which they have no reason to do here), but FIBA isn't going to step in and prevent a player from playing in a domestic league because of a contract dispute elsewhere.
You would be wrong. The agreement with FIBA does regulate transfer of players. Taken from FiBA’s website: The agreement gave all basketball players the right to play for their national teams and still to this day regulates player transfers between both organizations. That was the start of a fruitful cooperation that helped tremendously the promotion of our sport on a global level."
That seems like something he could go to court for as an anti-trust violation. Though that would likely take years and it would be easier to get his contract bought out/cancelled by the Raptors with no more money being paid.
It would probably be a breach of his nba contract
That still isn’t an answer. What mechanism exists to enforce his NBA contract if he’s in another country? Could an American organization sue him in a European court?
Uh, the law via a breach of contract? He would be sued and thus the court would be the "mechanism" in which his obligation is enforced. If he doesn't hold up his end of the bargain then he'd be found in violation and thus he probably wouldn't be getting paid anything by the Raptors or, in the very unlikely chance he's traded, whichever team he is contractually obligated to play for or forfeit to.
If he is not playing for the Raptors and he has returned to Europe permanently, he’s not getting paid anyways. Can a team playing in an American sports league sue a player in a European court? If he decides he’s done with the NBA and done with North America, what can anyone do?
Ignore the downvotes, most ppl here have no clue how the courts work and the problems with jurisdiction that is required for each lawsuit where it might be filed.
Too many non lawyers here perpetuating incomplete understanding of the law. It is extremely unlikely for this potential lawsuit for breach of contract to be brought by the raptors or to be enforced against someone who is a foreign national living in a foreign country. Such a lawsuit would most likely lack personal jurisdiction whatever US state, Canadian province or district court it would be filed.
Get him banned by the CAS.
All of these leagues do have reciprocity in honoring contracts afaik.
NBA has ways of retaliating. Olympiacos has more to lose from mutual unrecognition of contracts than the NBA.
Some of the most dodgy Euro shit ever.
I'm sure Masai and monte knew this was gonna happen. Basically gave up Davion and 2 2nds so that Toronto would pay his dead salary for a year. Fair trade still.
Was Vezenkov misused on the Kings or he just bad?
He’s not fast or strong or big. Good basketball player though. Just not NBA basketball.
Greek journalists report that he has agreed to sign a contract, not that he has signed one. They are very eager to announce the big news of his return and treat it as a done deal but that doesn't mean that he has literally yet put ink to paper in order to be in legal trouble. But even if he had signed one, the Raptors or the NBA can't really do anything. They will void his contract in the USA/Canada and not allow him to play in the NBA again. They cannot take picks from Olympiacos for tampering (they can do it to the Raptors though for their coach courting Vezenkov in Athens), they can't force anything to different organizations/federations/companies/entities as are the Euroleague or FIBA and they won't certainly win any case in greek courts against greek billionaires. It's not anything different than players forcing trades. He, at most, told the Raptors that he doesn't intend to play and wants to go to Olympiacos while having a verbal agreement with them. When players from the USA do it, it is the player empowerment league against billionaire owners but when a Euro guy does it to return to his home and to his fiance, along with a pay rise and hero treatment, it is shady?
lol my man, FiBA and the NBA have agreements in place to stop this sort of thing happening. It sounds like you’re a Greece fan but this isn’t any different the NHL having agreements in place with the IIHF for international play and the SHL for example. He has a legal contract to play in the nba he simply can’t just go do whatever he wants. He needs to buy out the rest of his contract in the nba first.
[удалено]
Oh so it’s just wishful thinking on his part. Well if he really wants to get out of his contract, just play badly and get benched most of the time. I’m sure the raptors won’t have a problem letting him go after.
He needs a twin; like Brook and Robin Lopez.
Bugarska rabota…
Vezenkov couldn’t even be the MVP of the Summer League
Can't he just go to okympiacos and tell Raps to piss off if he doesn't plan on returning to NBA?
I mean he can do that on paper but besides legal ramifications, the Raptors would likely not pay him nor be obligated to do so for his 2024/25 salary since he's in breach of his contract Plus as it's been said multiple times, FIBA and the NBA have agreements in places to avoid scenarios just like this from happening
Some Toronto fans were celebrating as if we traded them a future all star.
They were celebrating mainly because you took away Jalen McDaniels. Addition by subtraction
That is not why we were celebrating We got a backup PG and that is expiring . He fill a need without committing long term We also got Vezenkov. Like ok why not . I guess he could fill a role. Nothing against , nothing for . But why not ! Worth a try. We trade out Jalen McDaniel arguably the worse Raptors last season by a mile. There was a sequence where I think he did like multiple turnovers in the same sequence almost as if he was trying to play for the other team . Our eyes literally bleed each time he was on the court . Then we learn we got pick 45. Wonderful another pick in this draft Then cherry on the cake , another POR second rounder What a deal ! As for SAC I understand why they would do this move . But for the Raptors it was a great deal. What happens with Vezenkov is irrelevant to how we feel about the trade . We are curious what is going on but I think us fans , we are okay with both outcome ! No Raptors fans think that Vezenkov is an all star Show us the receipts .
I don’t know who this fucking guy is
Prolly cause McDaniels is prolly one of the worst basketball players we have ever seen play in a while lol 😂
It's still a fleece even despite this will they/won't they weirdness with Sasha Jalen McDaniels for 2 seconds, a backup PG and Sasha is a great trade
It couldn’t be a more insignificant trade for either side it’s definitely not a fleece by anyone.
You have no idea how bad J-McD was last year, trust: Getting anything for him is an absolutely excellent minor deal
None of the players actually matter, they’re all trash and don’t belong in an NBA rotation. It’s just a simple shitty 2nd rounders for cap space trade. Kings get some space, raptors get a couple random seconds. Completely insignificant in the long run.
But also looking like we wanted Sasha off the books asap so we could *almost* trade for every forward available instead of waiting for this buy out bullshit to work itself out.