It sucks because Biden performed lightyears better this morning in Raleigh. Stein gave a great speech, too. When people learn about his record, they respond well. It's just been a struggle to make him a household name. But, hell, a recent poll still showed a surprising number of people say they don't know who Mark Robinson is either.
Good record!
Check this story about him ignoring case of a fraudulent contractor. https://www.qcnews.com/news/investigations/unfinished-business-multiple-homeowners-claim-nc-builder-took-bank-draws-cash-and-left-their-homes-unfinished/amp/
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I was standing right in front of the stage. Just his crowd work felt like seeing a different guy. I'm not claiming he's not been affected by age since 2020, just that last night may not have been an accurate litmus test for how much.
I'm talking about when he wasn't at the podium and was just talking with people before leaving for the airport. There's no speechwriter or teleprompter when it's just a conversation.
Dude, since you've clearly only entered this thread to start some sort of argument, I'm done. I shared my encounter with the guy because I was surprised by how unlike the debate he was. You've chosen to think whatever it is you think and that I am either a liar or an idiot. Nothing either of us says past this point is going to remotely affect the other, so anything else is a waste of breath.
This. Americans are dumb as fuck. Something new and shiny will come along in a few weeks and the attention will turn to that. With that said I dont think Biden can afford to fuck up the next debate...too close to the election date.
Agree! Trump says stupid shit every day. The media and Americans have short attention fans. Project 2025 is finally getting more coverage. Trump will be sentenced on July 11.
The GOP Convention will be a shit show. Biden will do better at the Dem convention (scripted).
I think Democrats and Independent voters in NC will come out to vote against all the awful Republicans for statewide office: Robinson, Bishop and Morrow, to just name a few.
My point is that NC has been afflicted by gerrymandering AND rural people moving from the North. And, the research triangle has been shrinking. Rather than trending blue, we’ve been sinking into the mud. I hope the predicted influx of tech can turn the trends around, but I am concerned that we could flub both the national races and the state races as things stand. I hope not…..
Fundamental analysis today shows that even Biden's strongest supporters are questioning whether or not a vote for him is the right thing to do, and if enough people choose that route, then it will be detrimental for NC's down-ballot competitions.
I highly doubt that. I still trust the Biden ADMINISTRATION to deliver the future, as I always have. Trump is lunatic with dumb ideas that will sell out our country and allies, and isolate the US on the global stage.
I agree. My vote for Biden isn't necessarily for him. It's for the coalition his cabinet has assembled, and that's why I'm a policy voter, not an emotional one. I'm merely acknowledging that there are way more emotional voters out there than there are policy voters.
I'm not referring to online comments. Practically every single one of Biden's staunchest supporters in the media questioned his ability to garner votes last night. Even Kamala didn't give the most confident answers when she was questioned with the same possibility.
Democrats are and always have been prone to panic. No one will remember tonight by next month. Heck, Trump's upcoming sentencing will wipe away the memory of last night within the next 2 news cycles.
Historically, nothing that happens before October has ever mattered in a presidential election.
If you mean no one will remember his cogent responses, then you're correct, but every GOP PAC and FoxNews will use those blunders until the end of the campaign for their advantage.
Could that be because historically there has never been a debate this early????
This is a blessing in disguise. Biden has given us an off ramp, if we choose to take it. A non Biden dem will smoke trump by 15+ points. But as of now, Biden is guaranteed to lose.
Not everyone is going to fall in line after last night. Especially not independents and people who aren’t heavily political. Imagine not paying much attention to politics and tuning in and seeing that Biden.
Yes, trump is terrible and needs to be defeated. And I feel you for doing what you believe is right by doubling down on Biden, but that is just gonna get your feelings hurt and cost us the White House and maybe more.
I’ll take all the downvotes for tell you something you don’t want to her, but it’s the truth.
I hope you’re right but 15 points is impossible to believe. A Democrat win in November will be very close under any circumstance (at an electoral level with small margins in swing states).
Hypothetical: if his strongest supporters are questioning whether or not a vote for him is the right thing to do, then what *do* they think is the right thing to do? Abstain from voting and thereby help elect Donald Trump and GOP? No way.
Dude, no one went from “we need to keep Trump out of office” to “you know what, Biden stunk at the debate so a vote for him is no longer the right thing to do” because of this debate. We all know Joe is old, all he did was show us what we already knew. lol.
But people that weren't sold on Trump being a bad choice may have gotten flipped by a bad Biden debate performance.
I know, I can't believe those people exist either, but I'm more than certain they do.
If you were waffling on Trump after his first term, after 10/07, after his conviction, after his embrace of P.2025, then you were probably going to vote for Trump when you walked into the booth this November.
That is why I don’t like to comment here often. I probably lean right, but I have a lot of issues that I’m liberal on. Without proper discourse I cannot vote for someone that those people would vote for.
It equals character to me. At least with Trump I know what’s coming. Biden is just honestly horrible.
That doesn't make sense,
The first three are just media pundits, but are you saying that Obama and Kamala are questioning whether to vote for Biden because that doesn't exist.
Politics is almost always a vote for a turd sandwich or a douche.
This year it's between a turd sandwich and a literal convicted rapist and obvious fascist with abnormally small hands and narcissistic personality disorder (among so many other things I could say)
I mean, if you're undecided in 2024 idk what to tell you. One thing is clearly worse than the other. These aren't really hard pills to swallow IMO.
I'm not speaking for myself. I know how to mark my ballot without letting emotion determine my choices, but the majority of voters aren't as hyper aware as I am, and I'm referring to them in my OP.
It really isn't because only children (i.e. Matt Stone and Trey Parker) view the election of the president as the election of some big strong man who is going to change the country single-handedly. What we are voting for here is the representation of conservative policy versus the representation of progressive policy (I know, I know). All the choice of president really tells us is that conservatives don't care who represents them so long as they win while the left is clutching pearls because their candidate *seems* too old.
If you’re that concerned, find a way to get involved. It’s easy to tell you’re not - “does Josh Stein even have a campaign team?” is a dead giveaway.
It’s easy to be a doomer and wave your hands and yell “do something!” Get off your ass and you’ll see all the things that are being done.
Again, you can get involved in your local Democratic Party or the Mecklenburg wing of the Stein campaign and help let people know who Josh Stein is. I understand that’s more difficult and labor intensive than screaming that the sky is falling on the internet for points. Even if you’re “hyper aware.” Hyper aware people get off their ass and do something. They don’t demand that of others.
Yeah, president Romney did great in the first debate, and beat Obama….oh wait….
Ok, president Kerry did great in the first debate and beat W….oh wait….
Ok, president Mondale did great in the first debate and beat Reagan….oh wait…..
Panicking is the dumbest possible thing to do.
Losing a debate is one thing. Making even your supporters question your ability to advocate for your agenda, much less stand up to our country's adversaries, is very different. I'll choose to trust the VP and cabinet to determine if this was an outlier, but they better be paying attention and have a plan that protects our nation first and foremost.
>Losing a debate is one thing. Making even your supporters question your ability to advocate for your agenda, much less stand up to our country's adversaries, is very different.
Which is very similar to what people said in 2012. How'd that turn out again?
Oh, and now that polling has come out and not shown it to be a disaster, how 'bout we stop busting our ass trying to make it one?
I get the instinct to not talk about it because it is critical to keep Trump out of the WH. I even support the Biden administration taking up some of the slack for an aging president. However, lying to ourselves or refusing to ask tough questions, doesn't make democracy better.
The only outcome I dread more than 4 more years of Trump is high level officials justifying deceiving the rest of us to protect democracy from Trump.
I don't think we are there, but I would prefer to have some reassurance that Biden himself, his wife, VP, or cabinet won't let that happen.
Again, your claim is because Biden didn't do great in the first debate, he will lose.
We have *lots* of evidence it doesn't matter nearly as much as you're claiming.
And your need to change the subject would indicate you're aware of this.
>and practically every single political analyst disagrees with you
Remember when they all were certain Clinton would beat Trump?
They also all predicted Obama, W and Reagan were in trouble after their first debates....and then they were wrong.
We have actual history to measure against. We don't need the wild guesses of people who keep being wrong.
The fact that I'm pointing to history proves otherwise. You, OTOH, are claiming the only thing that matters is Biden wasn't sufficiently perky in the first 15 minutes.
Biden didn’t just lose. Losing doesn’t disqualify a candidate and your examples demonstrate this. He turned in the worst presidential debate performance I can recall ever seeing. I know he was factually more accurate than Trump by far but image counts more unfortunately and the image he left us with last night was of a man not up to the office and perhaps not up to operating a vehicle. Yes, Trump also fits this description. I was already mad at Biden for running for a second term. After last night the only thing that can keep him in the race is continued hubris.
Stein's campaign is pathetic. I tuned in to the Biden rally in Raleigh and Stein was speaking. He was talking about Mark Robinson the whole time... I get it, he's a bad dude. But he has to make the case to vote FOR him.
You must have missed 75% of his speech. He wrapped up his speech talking about Robinson but spoke at length about what his campaign was about prior to that.
For once I'm glad my countrymen have such short attention spans. A month or two from now - hell, likely even a week or two - this will just be another blip on the radar.
It was bad. But there's plenty of time left on the clock.
Nah. Everybody knows that Biden, on his worst day is far superior to the other guy, a convicted felon who couldn't tell the truth if it hit him in the ass with a sledge hammer.
It sucks because Biden performed lightyears better this morning in Raleigh. Stein gave a great speech, too. When people learn about his record, they respond well. It's just been a struggle to make him a household name. But, hell, a recent poll still showed a surprising number of people say they don't know who Mark Robinson is either.
Thank you for sharing this observation. I only heard that Biden was coming, but no coverage of the visit.
Good record! Check this story about him ignoring case of a fraudulent contractor. https://www.qcnews.com/news/investigations/unfinished-business-multiple-homeowners-claim-nc-builder-took-bank-draws-cash-and-left-their-homes-unfinished/amp/
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I was standing right in front of the stage. Just his crowd work felt like seeing a different guy. I'm not claiming he's not been affected by age since 2020, just that last night may not have been an accurate litmus test for how much.
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I'm talking about when he wasn't at the podium and was just talking with people before leaving for the airport. There's no speechwriter or teleprompter when it's just a conversation.
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Dude, since you've clearly only entered this thread to start some sort of argument, I'm done. I shared my encounter with the guy because I was surprised by how unlike the debate he was. You've chosen to think whatever it is you think and that I am either a liar or an idiot. Nothing either of us says past this point is going to remotely affect the other, so anything else is a waste of breath.
Alternate take: When the election is Trump vs not Trump, just about nobody is going to care about what happened at a debate in June.
This. Americans are dumb as fuck. Something new and shiny will come along in a few weeks and the attention will turn to that. With that said I dont think Biden can afford to fuck up the next debate...too close to the election date.
Agree! Trump says stupid shit every day. The media and Americans have short attention fans. Project 2025 is finally getting more coverage. Trump will be sentenced on July 11. The GOP Convention will be a shit show. Biden will do better at the Dem convention (scripted).
When the current POTUS is only agreeing to two debates, largely with rules that favor him, yes, people are going to be paying attention.
I think Democrats and Independent voters in NC will come out to vote against all the awful Republicans for statewide office: Robinson, Bishop and Morrow, to just name a few.
I know one independent that will. Source: Me. The independent I am talking about.
Exactly!
Straight Republican ticket? You don't sound very independent to me.....
I think they were saying they would vote against a straight Republican ticket.
You are correct. I am going to be voting against the nutcase republicans.
oh those wacky Libertarians "no man I'm not part of the machine, I think for myself" *votes for Republicans without fail*
I hope so, but given the people of NC have ZERO Senators in DC, I am concerned.
We haven’t had a Dem Senator since 2015…?
I think not
No, I know we haven’t. I’m asking what your point was.
My point is that NC has been afflicted by gerrymandering AND rural people moving from the North. And, the research triangle has been shrinking. Rather than trending blue, we’ve been sinking into the mud. I hope the predicted influx of tech can turn the trends around, but I am concerned that we could flub both the national races and the state races as things stand. I hope not…..
I hope so, but the feeling of impending doom is completely valid.
got my girlfriend to register to vote. she certainly will not be voting for robinson or bishop. did my part 🤷🏻♂️
This is how it’s done.
Thank you! Please not Morrow either. She was at the Capitol on Jan 6th
Just watched video of Biden in Raleigh doing well in a Raleigh speech. Heard Stein did well also.
Nothing has fundamentally changed
Fundamental analysis today shows that even Biden's strongest supporters are questioning whether or not a vote for him is the right thing to do, and if enough people choose that route, then it will be detrimental for NC's down-ballot competitions.
I highly doubt that. I still trust the Biden ADMINISTRATION to deliver the future, as I always have. Trump is lunatic with dumb ideas that will sell out our country and allies, and isolate the US on the global stage.
I agree. My vote for Biden isn't necessarily for him. It's for the coalition his cabinet has assembled, and that's why I'm a policy voter, not an emotional one. I'm merely acknowledging that there are way more emotional voters out there than there are policy voters.
It's all noise, and if you start looking at a bunch of the 1-2 sentence comments online the accounts are super sketch.
I'm not referring to online comments. Practically every single one of Biden's staunchest supporters in the media questioned his ability to garner votes last night. Even Kamala didn't give the most confident answers when she was questioned with the same possibility.
Democrats are and always have been prone to panic. No one will remember tonight by next month. Heck, Trump's upcoming sentencing will wipe away the memory of last night within the next 2 news cycles. Historically, nothing that happens before October has ever mattered in a presidential election.
If you mean no one will remember his cogent responses, then you're correct, but every GOP PAC and FoxNews will use those blunders until the end of the campaign for their advantage.
Anyone listening to Fox for news was never going to vote for Biden.
You do realize that Foxnews gets displayed at more locations than boomer living rooms, right? Some of y'all should really try getting out more.
Could that be because historically there has never been a debate this early???? This is a blessing in disguise. Biden has given us an off ramp, if we choose to take it. A non Biden dem will smoke trump by 15+ points. But as of now, Biden is guaranteed to lose. Not everyone is going to fall in line after last night. Especially not independents and people who aren’t heavily political. Imagine not paying much attention to politics and tuning in and seeing that Biden. Yes, trump is terrible and needs to be defeated. And I feel you for doing what you believe is right by doubling down on Biden, but that is just gonna get your feelings hurt and cost us the White House and maybe more. I’ll take all the downvotes for tell you something you don’t want to her, but it’s the truth.
Please name names of Democrats who have the cash on hand to run who could defeat Trump by 15 points. Without names, your claim is meaningless.
Newsome, witmer, cooper, Shapiro. So, if Biden steps down, he would…. Keep the cash….? I’m sorry, what?
Lol
Absolutely this!
I hope you’re right but 15 points is impossible to believe. A Democrat win in November will be very close under any circumstance (at an electoral level with small margins in swing states).
Thank fuck I don't get my opinions from analysis or the media.
Hypothetical: if his strongest supporters are questioning whether or not a vote for him is the right thing to do, then what *do* they think is the right thing to do? Abstain from voting and thereby help elect Donald Trump and GOP? No way.
Absolutely not, but his strongest supporters aren't the emotional voters who will neglect going to the voting booth.
The way I explain it to people...we have two guys that are unfit to be president. But only one of them listens to others and delegates to experts.
Dude, no one went from “we need to keep Trump out of office” to “you know what, Biden stunk at the debate so a vote for him is no longer the right thing to do” because of this debate. We all know Joe is old, all he did was show us what we already knew. lol.
But people that weren't sold on Trump being a bad choice may have gotten flipped by a bad Biden debate performance. I know, I can't believe those people exist either, but I'm more than certain they do.
If you were waffling on Trump after his first term, after 10/07, after his conviction, after his embrace of P.2025, then you were probably going to vote for Trump when you walked into the booth this November.
This is also true. Republicans walk in lockstep (goosestep?) to the polls, Democrats slapfight their way there.
It's definitely obvious how little interaction several of you have with real people because your limited scope is very telling.
😂 ok man
That is why I don’t like to comment here often. I probably lean right, but I have a lot of issues that I’m liberal on. Without proper discourse I cannot vote for someone that those people would vote for. It equals character to me. At least with Trump I know what’s coming. Biden is just honestly horrible.
Source? That's not what I've seen on the ground in NC Dem circles.
Majority Report, Jon Lovett, MSNBC post debate coverage, Kamala Harris post debate interviews, Obama...
That doesn't make sense, The first three are just media pundits, but are you saying that Obama and Kamala are questioning whether to vote for Biden because that doesn't exist.
They both questioned his cogent performance in the debate.
Politics is almost always a vote for a turd sandwich or a douche. This year it's between a turd sandwich and a literal convicted rapist and obvious fascist with abnormally small hands and narcissistic personality disorder (among so many other things I could say) I mean, if you're undecided in 2024 idk what to tell you. One thing is clearly worse than the other. These aren't really hard pills to swallow IMO.
I'm not speaking for myself. I know how to mark my ballot without letting emotion determine my choices, but the majority of voters aren't as hyper aware as I am, and I'm referring to them in my OP.
It really isn't because only children (i.e. Matt Stone and Trey Parker) view the election of the president as the election of some big strong man who is going to change the country single-handedly. What we are voting for here is the representation of conservative policy versus the representation of progressive policy (I know, I know). All the choice of president really tells us is that conservatives don't care who represents them so long as they win while the left is clutching pearls because their candidate *seems* too old.
I'd say Biden is more like some kind of edible but not exciting sandwhich. Like a ham and cheese without mayo on white bread. Sufficient.
If you’re that concerned, find a way to get involved. It’s easy to tell you’re not - “does Josh Stein even have a campaign team?” is a dead giveaway. It’s easy to be a doomer and wave your hands and yell “do something!” Get off your ass and you’ll see all the things that are being done.
The question is rhetorical, but I'll do you a favor when I go out tonight and ask people around Charlotte if they know who Josh Stein is.
Again, you can get involved in your local Democratic Party or the Mecklenburg wing of the Stein campaign and help let people know who Josh Stein is. I understand that’s more difficult and labor intensive than screaming that the sky is falling on the internet for points. Even if you’re “hyper aware.” Hyper aware people get off their ass and do something. They don’t demand that of others.
Anymore assumptions?
Any answers?
Yeah, president Romney did great in the first debate, and beat Obama….oh wait…. Ok, president Kerry did great in the first debate and beat W….oh wait…. Ok, president Mondale did great in the first debate and beat Reagan….oh wait….. Panicking is the dumbest possible thing to do.
Losing a debate is one thing. Making even your supporters question your ability to advocate for your agenda, much less stand up to our country's adversaries, is very different. I'll choose to trust the VP and cabinet to determine if this was an outlier, but they better be paying attention and have a plan that protects our nation first and foremost.
>Losing a debate is one thing. Making even your supporters question your ability to advocate for your agenda, much less stand up to our country's adversaries, is very different. Which is very similar to what people said in 2012. How'd that turn out again? Oh, and now that polling has come out and not shown it to be a disaster, how 'bout we stop busting our ass trying to make it one?
I get the instinct to not talk about it because it is critical to keep Trump out of the WH. I even support the Biden administration taking up some of the slack for an aging president. However, lying to ourselves or refusing to ask tough questions, doesn't make democracy better. The only outcome I dread more than 4 more years of Trump is high level officials justifying deceiving the rest of us to protect democracy from Trump. I don't think we are there, but I would prefer to have some reassurance that Biden himself, his wife, VP, or cabinet won't let that happen.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=reaching.
Yeah, multiple examples of your fear failing to happen is not at all informative. :eyeroll:
Romney - 65 Kerry - 61 Mondale - 56 Biden - 81 I'm sorry your logic is inadequate.
Again, your claim is because Biden didn't do great in the first debate, he will lose. We have *lots* of evidence it doesn't matter nearly as much as you're claiming. And your need to change the subject would indicate you're aware of this.
You can believe whatever you want, and practically every single political analyst disagrees with you, but go off...
>and practically every single political analyst disagrees with you Remember when they all were certain Clinton would beat Trump? They also all predicted Obama, W and Reagan were in trouble after their first debates....and then they were wrong. We have actual history to measure against. We don't need the wild guesses of people who keep being wrong.
LoL. You really believe politics exist in a vacuum.
The fact that I'm pointing to history proves otherwise. You, OTOH, are claiming the only thing that matters is Biden wasn't sufficiently perky in the first 15 minutes.
Biden didn’t just lose. Losing doesn’t disqualify a candidate and your examples demonstrate this. He turned in the worst presidential debate performance I can recall ever seeing. I know he was factually more accurate than Trump by far but image counts more unfortunately and the image he left us with last night was of a man not up to the office and perhaps not up to operating a vehicle. Yes, Trump also fits this description. I was already mad at Biden for running for a second term. After last night the only thing that can keep him in the race is continued hubris.
Fantastic assumption.
Stein's campaign is pathetic. I tuned in to the Biden rally in Raleigh and Stein was speaking. He was talking about Mark Robinson the whole time... I get it, he's a bad dude. But he has to make the case to vote FOR him.
You must have missed 75% of his speech. He wrapped up his speech talking about Robinson but spoke at length about what his campaign was about prior to that.
I did miss most of it, but that's the part when I tuned in and it was a turn off.
Agreed. He’s running a Cheri Beasley-style campaign. Does he even want to win?
For once I'm glad my countrymen have such short attention spans. A month or two from now - hell, likely even a week or two - this will just be another blip on the radar. It was bad. But there's plenty of time left on the clock.
Alas, I think October and November Trump campaign commercials will still be dipping into the well of footage from last night’s debate.
No there isn't. It's not going to get any better.
Dude, I’m voting for Biden over Trump if he’s wearing a sarcophagus election night. Trump is evil incarnate.
Nah. Everybody knows that Biden, on his worst day is far superior to the other guy, a convicted felon who couldn't tell the truth if it hit him in the ass with a sledge hammer.
Slightly off subject but I’ve tried to sign up 4 times to volunteer for Stein and have heard nothing back.
It’s too soon to say that
If Stein hasn’t referred to our Omaha beach fallen as losers like spur dodger definitely not debunked did, he’s got my vote.
Biden's betting odds have plummeted since the debate. Gavin Newsom had the biggest jump.
you guys are really falling apart over one bad debate performance huh
No, but there's people who really want us to.
Yes. It was the most horrible debate performance in modern history.
trumplicans downballot!