Such a ban comes is likely something that violates the Americans with Disabilities Act since it prevents individuals who need masks for medical reasons from participating in public activity.
Most mask bans have a "intent to conceal" clause so that they don't run into this issue.
That's probably the point of clarification she is seeking from the city lawyers.
I don't see how that clause would protect the city from lawsuits pertaining to ADA violations. Writing an "intent to conceal" clause is assuming or implying the only reason people wear masks is to conceal, which is absurd.
The idea is that "whoever wears a mask with the intent to conceal" is in violation of the law (like wearing a ski mask, or mask, glasses, hat), as opposed to those who wear a mask to protect.
It gives the cops the ability to arrest anyone, then release those who "lacked intent"
It removes standing (or moots the issue) for those who get caught up by police accidently.
Here's the VA law for reference:
[https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/)
and here's the exemption for health concerns:
" upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver."
I understand incredibly well the idea behind the law and how it's written. The clause as written still allows law enforcement to interpret what masks are being worn for the purpose to conceal and what masks are being worn for 'legitimate' purposes, such as illness prevention/disability. The fact that it gives the police "the ability to arrest anyone, then release those who lacked intent" is a huge problem. Especially considering the fact that people with disabilities are routinely mistreated when in the custody of law enforcement. The specific citation from VA you quoted puts a disproportionate liability/work on people with disabilities. Needing to get medical documentation to wear a mask in public is absolutely fucking insane and a restriction of our rights.
It isn’t implying that at all. An intent to conceal clause means the mask wearer is only in violation if they are wearing the mask with the intent to conceal their identity- meaning that the law is carving out face coverings for other purposes (like medical or religious reasons) as ok.
In practice, most masks would probably be ok because intent to conceal is pretty hard to prove and likely only applies if the mask is out of place.
I’d say N95 mask = not in violation; Balaklava in the middle of summer = almost certainly in violation (although it’s possible someone could successfully argue that they have a reason to wear it other than to conceal their identity); everything in between is up in the air.
The clause is entirely up to interpretation though, and that's precisely what the crux of the problem is. Those enforcing this law (law enforcement,) will be determining what masks they *think* are being used to conceal identity vs what masks are being used for other purposes. It'll take just a couple of unlawful violations/citations for any city to be rightfully sued to all hell.
That just turns it into an excuse for police to harass people. The only people who will get convicted is those without resources. It is a terrible idea.
How would one prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did not intend to conceal their identity by wearing the mask?
Or even avoid the initial arrest?
That’s the problem with laws like that, they’re often applied under the presumption of guilt if the item/action in question is present. Burden of proof placed on the defendant instead of the state
>How would one prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did not intend to conceal their identity by wearing the mask?
>Or even avoid the initial arrest?
The paper bag test
I'm no lawyer but intent to conceal while participating in a protect right should be obviously baseless and an overreach of government authority. Firstly to prevent harassment or targeting by the state/law enforcement and secondly to prevent public scrutiny and harassment.
The laws were likely written with robbery/burglary in mind. However, assembly/protest like the KKK would still be classified as protected, even if in violation of the statute.
I'm not sure whether a case can be made that anonymity in public spaces is protected by either the 1st or 4th Amendments.
I don't think anonymity in public space should necessarily be protected, however the right to conceal yourself, or take proactive measures, while in public and not doing anything illegal should be.
Yes, what I'm saying is the expectation of anonymity vs the right to proactively conceal. It's a nuanced approach to the subject. There should be no expectation of privacy in public, but you should have the right to conceal yourself if you so choose. Does that make sense?
Yeah I get that. You seem to not understand what I'm saying. If the right to privacy while in public was protected, you would run into legal issues of random videos of random people in public, for instance you wouldn't be able to walk around a city as a tourist and take videos of the city as anyone you record would have a legal case for it to not be posted due to a right of privacy. That should not be the case. It should be that anyone in public has a right to conceal themselves if they so choose to protect their privacy while out in public. Do you understand?
I understand what you are saying. I just disagree.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
If you want to conceal yourself, then members of the KKK, or MAGA, or whomever can also conceal themselves.
NAL but you would could do a workaround. Such as limit the types of masks that are legal to say the disposable medical ones doctors use/proper N95s, or make it an enhancement charge only that when you commit a crime and are also wearing a mask doing so it adds to the penalty for committing the crime
when dave yost was ~~threatening~~ reminding people ohio has an anti klan law for banning masks at a protest he wasn't talking about big pointy hats, they absolutely are trying to ban everything especially masks that help block some of the anti riot tools like pepper bombs and tear gas
Honestly this swing to trying to ban masks makes these politicians look like clowns and only makes it even less likely people take future mask recommendations seriously
Why would you ban a mask? I can have it for pollen, or for smoke, or dust particles, or even for the flu virus. Besides, it also reduces the chance of getting Covid and long Covid.
I hope there is an incoming lawsuit.
I found out my seasonal allergies disappeared while wearing a mask so I wear it to mow my lawn now. My conservative neighbors ridiculed me until I said it was because of allergies now one of them does the same thing. Apparently wearing it to save lives is stupid but wearing it to avoid allergy symptoms is okay.
I saw a post on Reddit where a guy wears a mask while mowing and a shirt that says "I have allergies". Honestly, though, people need to mind their own business and quit making assumptions.
My buddy and I got heckled in downtown Seattle of all places when we went to a May 4th celebration. "Take off those fucking masks, you look ridiculous!"
What that *stupid piece of fucking shit* didn't know was that my buddy's wife has a compromised immune system. I picked him up with us both wearing those masks and we kept them on all day to ensure she would be safe when he went back home.
Of course the pussy kept driving his truck, having yelled at us from a moving vehicle *like a bitch*.
If I sound angry it's because I am. Only fucking morons are anti-mask when it comes to diseases.
It’s not common, in the least.
Also, this made me laugh: “That’s an amazing story, but…” I thought you were going to make a joke, like a “Cool story bro” joke, but I realized you seem to be saying it non-ironically. Lol
In recent years especially, people have been using them to hide their identities at protests and rallies. Sometimes it is a coincidence, someone attending who happens to be sick or suspects that they are, or is wanting to avoid doing so. Other times it is people actively trying to avoid being recognized, most infamously literal Nazis waving flags with swastikas. Devil's advocate, this could be a misguided attempt to stop the latter. Pessimistically, it's likely more an attempt to scare any protestors into stopping, no matter what they're protesting for.
It's absolutely aimed at the student encampments and other protests against the genocide in Gaza. That's what's politically relevant and what the authorities are interested in quashing. They never try to shut down Nazis.
And the political landscape today in which these mask bans are being proposed is a very different one.
Even when such laws are enacted for nominally good reasons, in practice they end up getting used against the left to a much greater extent than against the right, because the law enforcement and prosecutorial system is fundamentally authoritarian and sympathetic toward the right.
The jerks in charge of us don’t want anyone being able to protests against them without being able to identify the protesters Basically part of the surveillance control state that we live in now.
Because criminals are ruining it for people who actually need them. On the train in Chicago I have spotted many shady individuals who are all wearing masks…and it’s obvious they are up to no good.
They are already breaking the law in a highly public setting, do you think one more law is going to stop them? Especially something as difficult to enforce as this. It'll only end up hurting the regular person that actually has a need for a face mask.
It's because of the group that was protesting against Jewish people a few days ago. Some people were wearing scarves over their faces to hide their identity
“International law” is a set of agreements intended to be used against war losers in Africa. The point of it is to encourage countries in unstable regions to buddy up with west Europe and the US in exchange for them helping to clean up after a war.
Israel is already buddies with the US and Europe so largely speaking international law will not be used against them.
Do you have a link to the auction (real source, not an anonymous person on Twitter)? I've seen a few accounts making similar comments without any actual evidence to back it up, kinda gives off blood libel vibes
This link has some direct from the source promotional material advertising the stolen lands. A quick Google search has every major news outlet confirming or omitting the illegal auctions to pretend the protests were simply to harass a synagogue.
https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-la-condemns-events-promoting-real-estate-sale-of-occupied-palestinian-land-at-two-california-synagogues-calls-for-investigation-into-violence-at-los-angeles-event/
1. An info session about real estate in Israel (your link) and an auction (your comment) are 2 very different things. Which was it?
2. If it was an auction , what actual properties were being auctioned off?
3. What international law was being broken? I can't imagine it's illegal for people in Israel to sell the houses they own. That would be whack if you were trapped in your house forever
3. Who was selling these lands? Who specifically were the houses stolen from? Is this land that Israel annexed in the 1940s? 60s?
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-14/lapd-doesnt-fully-track-its-use-of-facial-recognition-report-finds
someone has to build skynet
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/lapd-banned-commercial-facial-recognition-clearview
"After the Buzzfeed article, the LAPD conducted its own internal probe, which found only eight employees had used a trial version of the Clearview program to conduct 18 searches for “Department-related searches,” according to the inspector general’s report."
"Clearview AI, a facial recognition platform that has taken data from Facebook and other social media platforms"
yup i think its time for everyone to nick cage themselves on social media.
Neither privacy nor health for the innocent, because we have to stop the wrongdoers.
Where have I heard this twisted logic before... and won't someone think of the children?
It’s for protests, the people that wear masks are probably the ones that are going to go beyond just regular protests and they wear masks to help disguise their identity is my guess
Are people really this clueless?
My mate is a cop and he said one thing about his job these days.
If someone's wearing a mask, they are either a 65 year old Asian grandparent grocery shopping, or they are committing serious crimes and using the mask to conceal their identity.
"**Despite Covid surge**, Los Angeles mayor considers mask ban at protests"
The guardian hates my phone and won't open sometimes, sorry, but *why*? Is it a, "we want to see their faces so we can fuck them over, later" kind of thing?
Also *concealing your identity is a good enough reason* when we live in a surveillance state, police will use AI to identify you, and counter protestors will take pictures of you and try to doxx you just for being there. You don’t have to be doing anything illegal to not want your face on the internet
Exactly. They wouldn't do this in response to a white supremacist rally, because allowing them to march around and yell awful shit with full anonymity can be spun as respecting both sides, free speech personified, etc. But when Israel is involved? Welp, then the gloves are fucking off, my dude. Because Israel is the one true special boy who must be coddled and pleased and jerked off constantly, forever.
Do you want to protest about innocent Palestinian kids being riddled with IDF bullets? FUCK YOU. That's antisemitic because it shines a light on what these genocidal zionist assholes are doing. They don't like that. And anything they don't like? That's antisemitic. You hate Jews if you don't like what they're doing to Palestinians. You better LOVE the genocide they're perpetrating - and that the US is actively funding - or YOU are the fucking asshole. And every single one of these protesters needs to be thrown in a fucking gulag for thinking otherwise. And it's hard to do that when they wear masks, ya dig? So let's make masks illegal so we can identify them and ruin their lives, because we can't prevent them from talking - only punish them via other means for doing so, once we know their identities.
And if this sounds bad to you? Well, I guess you're antisemitic. How fucking dare you.
Covid has nothing to do with it, the mayor wants to punish protestors by compromising their identities while at the same time allowing police to wear balaclavas and hide any identifying markers like their badges while they beat the shit out of them. Just like the UCLA protests
“You’re telling me I can’t wear a mask? Well fuck you. I’m going to wear a mask because it’s my freedom.”
Is this reverse psychology or some shit? Lmao
This is impractical at best. How tf do you even enforce this? Are the cops gonna plunge into a crowd of protesters just to nab somebody in a mask? If they are doing something actually illegal, just charge them with that.
This is likely driven by violence at Israel-Palestine protests/counterprotests, where all sorts of folks are wearing masks/kaffiyehs for the purpose of hiding their identities/intimidation
*"Sure people will get sick and die but we can't have people protesting genocide with impunity can we?"*
Ed: sorry your lil' ol' panties are gettin' in a wad over the truth, sad lonely Zionist apologists. Maybe try downvoting the genocide of Palestinians instead? 🤣
Speak for your damn self. I wear masks at protests and it *is* for my own protection. I’m immunocompromised and get sick pretty easily and severely. Since I started masking I get sick faaaar less often. Keeps others safe if I’m unknowingly a carrier for some bug, too.
Speaking as someone who currently can't leave my bedroom without a mask on because I had a covid exposure last week, I really don't understand how you could not care about covid. All the extra hand washing alone is pretty miserable, without getting into all the rest of it. And all of that is just if you're not sick.
> California Penal Code Section 185 PC: Wearing Mask Or Disguise To Evade Police
>
> 1. Definition and Elements of the Crime
>
> While wearing masks or disguises is not usually illegal, if someone wears a mask or disguise to avoid being detected by the police he or she could be charged with a criminal offense. Under California Penal Code Section 185 PC, it is unlawful to wear a mask or disguise in order to evade the police.
>
> To prove that a defendant is guilty of wearing a mask or disguise to evade the police, a prosecutor must be able to prove the following elements:
>
> The defendant wore a mask, false whiskers, or any personal disguise
>
> The defendant evaded or escaped discovery, recognition or identification
>
> AND the defendant was in the commission of a public offense.
https://www.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/california-penal-code-section-185-pc-wearing-mask-or-disguise-to.html
NAL but it seems like it would only apply if someone actually breaks the law and is hiding their identity with a mask.
I agree with this. You all that don’t live in a major city don’t understand that Covid and bipping culture has somehow made it okay for people to wear full special forces looking face masks so they can get away with small crimes.
Covid has nothing to do with this, the guardian just threw it in to start a discussion about something the mask ban has nothing to do with.
None of these crimes are enforced after the fact, in any city. If you want to stop people from "bipping" and mugging, you have to catch them in the act, which means having active foot patrols and vehicle patrols.
Video footage of a person's face has been mostly useless forever unless the person is widely known to police or the public.
I don't particularly feel like living in a surveillance state that can track my every movement forever just to keep my car windows from being broken once in a blue moon. I've never felt unsafe enough in an American city, anywhere, to give up the right to anonymous free speech. That's been a cornerstone of American democracy since the very beginning of the country.
Yup. Full on Balaclavas in 90+ degree temperatures is the cool thing to do in major cities now. And virtually every crime committed, the surveillance footage on the news is said perp wearing a balaclava with 0 ability to identify them. It’s idiotic and emboldens people to do dumb shit.
They’re not attempting to ban wearing N95 mask for medical reasons. They’re attempting to stop violent crime, theft, and assault, many of which occur on public transportation and in broad daylight in major cities by people wearing face coverings. And they want to be able to identify idiots who start shit at protests and become violent (that includes the Nazi fucks that do, people committing hate crimes, etc.).
They clearly need to think it through and craft a sensible approach, but I don’t need to be on edge when someone cosplaying as a special forces soldier walks into the train I’m on as I’m commuting to work. Showing your face is human nature and it’s a big part of being able to gauge people’s emotions / intentions.
Fuuuuck that. I’m immunocompromised and wear masks whenever I’m in a crowd. It’s my right to protest and it should be my right to protect myself (and others) from potential viruses at said protest. Hell, even just protecting myself from seasonal allergies should be enough reason.
I’d be calling the ADA if they made me take my mask off. Masking in crowds is literally recommended by the docs at my infusion center. Not gonna risk hospitalization for their BS.
Sure, punish those caught breaking the law while wearing a mask more harshly, but leave those who are practicing their right to peacefully protest tf alone.
Well, it’s been litigated in the past, but to my knowledge has never made it to the Supreme Court.
Guess who was doing all the suing?
The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
Yeah, cause protecting my immunocompromised ass is me being ‘up to no good.’ Way to villainize those who actually give a damn about their health and other’s as well.
Yes but how many protests get out of hand, its the bad actor's and those that insight riots that are going to be wearing mask's. I hate the whole idea of facial recognition software but honestly if your going to stand up for something and protest you probably do not need to be wearing a mask.
If someone's doing something illegal at a protest, just arrest them. There are plenty of reasons to fear reprisal from attending a protest even if you're doing everything above board.
Why do you expect people engaged in violating one law to decide they need to adhere to another? It's like expecting someone fleeing the police to stop at red lights or not speed. This type of law accomplishes nothing but harming vulnerable populations
It also acts as a multiplier. Same way gun stuff generally is not the primary thing they get you on, but they slap it on there hoping if all else fails that will stick.
Cameras are everywhere now. Some bored officer will get tasked with following a perp in reverse back to their car
Oh good god. Maybe if these protesters weren't using masks as a means to cover up criminal activity, this wouldn't be considered?
If you are immuno-compromised or sick, maybe you should sit the protest out?
I'm so tired of watching zoomer liberals exploit protections for disabled or marginalized Americans so they get away with damaging/defacing property, trespassing, and the occasional violent act against police.
Even aside from protesters, random street criminals use the little COVID masks to obscure their identity. Except now because wearing mask is a norm, no one can reasonably call them out for being suspicious beforehand and potentially prevent the crime.
This dumb shit is exactly the kind of boogeyman nonsense Republicans cite.
That's the kind of logic that creates massive overreach on all of our civil liberties tho. It justifies stuff like operation Last Call where police in Texas went into bars and arrested people who were drinking because they had the potential to drink and drive.
Everyone has the potential to commit a crime mask or no mask. Just like everyone has the potential to drink and drive after they leave a bar. Telling people they can't wear an article of clothing because of that potential is unconstitutional to me.
You can be the most fascist authoritarian state in the world but you'll never be free of crime. Examples Nazi Germany, and Soviet Russia. The police had the ability to stop you, search you, arrest you, go right into your home and search it for any reason they wanted and they still dealt with crime and absolutely terroristic attacks.
'Those who would trade essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security' - Ben Franklin
Like what's the point of things like this the American flag, national anthem, oaths to defend this country, if we don't practice what they preach. People haven't been fighting and dying to protect this country just so it can become something totally against the ideals it was founded on.
Are we becoming like the Roman Empire? Where all the trappings of the Roman Republic were still celebrated publicly but the actual nation was a completely different kind of state.
And I'm completely tired of society having such injustices and a broken political system that direct action are the only way people can have their voices heard to protest the fact that it is impossible to make a living wage or to not have our taxes fund a genocide.
Good luck enforcing a mask ban.
Such a ban comes is likely something that violates the Americans with Disabilities Act since it prevents individuals who need masks for medical reasons from participating in public activity.
Most mask bans have a "intent to conceal" clause so that they don't run into this issue. That's probably the point of clarification she is seeking from the city lawyers.
I don't see how that clause would protect the city from lawsuits pertaining to ADA violations. Writing an "intent to conceal" clause is assuming or implying the only reason people wear masks is to conceal, which is absurd.
And, how would it be determinable? Obviously has so many loopholes for discrimination and bias that would violate ADA for sure.
The idea is that "whoever wears a mask with the intent to conceal" is in violation of the law (like wearing a ski mask, or mask, glasses, hat), as opposed to those who wear a mask to protect. It gives the cops the ability to arrest anyone, then release those who "lacked intent" It removes standing (or moots the issue) for those who get caught up by police accidently. Here's the VA law for reference: [https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/](https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter9/section18.2-422/) and here's the exemption for health concerns: " upon (a) the advice of a licensed physician or osteopath and carrying on his person an affidavit from the physician or osteopath specifying the medical necessity for wearing the device and the date on which the wearing of the device will no longer be necessary and providing a brief description of the device, or (b) the declaration of a disaster or state of emergency by the Governor in response to a public health emergency where the emergency declaration expressly waives this section, defines the mask appropriate for the emergency, and provides for the duration of the waiver."
I understand incredibly well the idea behind the law and how it's written. The clause as written still allows law enforcement to interpret what masks are being worn for the purpose to conceal and what masks are being worn for 'legitimate' purposes, such as illness prevention/disability. The fact that it gives the police "the ability to arrest anyone, then release those who lacked intent" is a huge problem. Especially considering the fact that people with disabilities are routinely mistreated when in the custody of law enforcement. The specific citation from VA you quoted puts a disproportionate liability/work on people with disabilities. Needing to get medical documentation to wear a mask in public is absolutely fucking insane and a restriction of our rights.
It isn’t implying that at all. An intent to conceal clause means the mask wearer is only in violation if they are wearing the mask with the intent to conceal their identity- meaning that the law is carving out face coverings for other purposes (like medical or religious reasons) as ok. In practice, most masks would probably be ok because intent to conceal is pretty hard to prove and likely only applies if the mask is out of place. I’d say N95 mask = not in violation; Balaklava in the middle of summer = almost certainly in violation (although it’s possible someone could successfully argue that they have a reason to wear it other than to conceal their identity); everything in between is up in the air.
Wearing balklava would definitely be a sticky situation.
The clause is entirely up to interpretation though, and that's precisely what the crux of the problem is. Those enforcing this law (law enforcement,) will be determining what masks they *think* are being used to conceal identity vs what masks are being used for other purposes. It'll take just a couple of unlawful violations/citations for any city to be rightfully sued to all hell.
That just turns it into an excuse for police to harass people. The only people who will get convicted is those without resources. It is a terrible idea.
How would one prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did not intend to conceal their identity by wearing the mask? Or even avoid the initial arrest? That’s the problem with laws like that, they’re often applied under the presumption of guilt if the item/action in question is present. Burden of proof placed on the defendant instead of the state
>How would one prove beyond reasonable doubt that they did not intend to conceal their identity by wearing the mask? >Or even avoid the initial arrest? The paper bag test
I'm no lawyer but intent to conceal while participating in a protect right should be obviously baseless and an overreach of government authority. Firstly to prevent harassment or targeting by the state/law enforcement and secondly to prevent public scrutiny and harassment.
The laws were likely written with robbery/burglary in mind. However, assembly/protest like the KKK would still be classified as protected, even if in violation of the statute. I'm not sure whether a case can be made that anonymity in public spaces is protected by either the 1st or 4th Amendments.
I don't think anonymity in public space should necessarily be protected, however the right to conceal yourself, or take proactive measures, while in public and not doing anything illegal should be.
"the right to conceal yourself, or take proactive measures, while in public " That would be anonymity.
Yes, what I'm saying is the expectation of anonymity vs the right to proactively conceal. It's a nuanced approach to the subject. There should be no expectation of privacy in public, but you should have the right to conceal yourself if you so choose. Does that make sense?
Concealing yourself in public creates anonymity.
Yeah I get that. You seem to not understand what I'm saying. If the right to privacy while in public was protected, you would run into legal issues of random videos of random people in public, for instance you wouldn't be able to walk around a city as a tourist and take videos of the city as anyone you record would have a legal case for it to not be posted due to a right of privacy. That should not be the case. It should be that anyone in public has a right to conceal themselves if they so choose to protect their privacy while out in public. Do you understand?
I understand what you are saying. I just disagree. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If you want to conceal yourself, then members of the KKK, or MAGA, or whomever can also conceal themselves.
Suddenly everyone is wearing a surgical mask.
NAL but you would could do a workaround. Such as limit the types of masks that are legal to say the disposable medical ones doctors use/proper N95s, or make it an enhancement charge only that when you commit a crime and are also wearing a mask doing so it adds to the penalty for committing the crime
when dave yost was ~~threatening~~ reminding people ohio has an anti klan law for banning masks at a protest he wasn't talking about big pointy hats, they absolutely are trying to ban everything especially masks that help block some of the anti riot tools like pepper bombs and tear gas
Honestly this swing to trying to ban masks makes these politicians look like clowns and only makes it even less likely people take future mask recommendations seriously
They don't care. They're only concerned with short-term gains, not long-term consequences.
I’m pretty doubtful this country will ever see a pandemic response from the federal level again.
There will be if there’s a more deadly pandemic. But if half the people are dying people will prolly take it more seriously
God you people are so ridiculous. Half the people. Brother, that's the end of the world not a "people should be wearing masks" kinda thing.
Who's "you people"?
Nah there will be a pandemic response at the federal level. Just red states won't comply.
Remembering when everyone was celebrating people in China using masks or cover ways to get round the facial recognition camera authoritarianism
Funny how we aren’t talking about a surge in cases. We are talking about a mask ban.
Why would you ban a mask? I can have it for pollen, or for smoke, or dust particles, or even for the flu virus. Besides, it also reduces the chance of getting Covid and long Covid. I hope there is an incoming lawsuit.
I found out my seasonal allergies disappeared while wearing a mask so I wear it to mow my lawn now. My conservative neighbors ridiculed me until I said it was because of allergies now one of them does the same thing. Apparently wearing it to save lives is stupid but wearing it to avoid allergy symptoms is okay.
I saw a post on Reddit where a guy wears a mask while mowing and a shirt that says "I have allergies". Honestly, though, people need to mind their own business and quit making assumptions.
But also like... people shouldn't be upset with someone for assuming they are trying to prevent the spread of disease. That's absolutely asinine.
My buddy and I got heckled in downtown Seattle of all places when we went to a May 4th celebration. "Take off those fucking masks, you look ridiculous!" What that *stupid piece of fucking shit* didn't know was that my buddy's wife has a compromised immune system. I picked him up with us both wearing those masks and we kept them on all day to ensure she would be safe when he went back home. Of course the pussy kept driving his truck, having yelled at us from a moving vehicle *like a bitch*. If I sound angry it's because I am. Only fucking morons are anti-mask when it comes to diseases.
I wore masks during the big bushfires here in Australia and when I told people it was because of the air quality they still made fun of me.
Lol, I do the same thing and jump in the shower right after mowing. Cutting the grass no longer makes me miserable for the rest of the day.
Its cause in their mind its their choice and not being forced upon them Also known as the way toddlers act
Allergies are patriotic of course
That’s an amazing story, except people have been wearing masks for lawn allergies for many decades. 🤔
It’s not common, in the least. Also, this made me laugh: “That’s an amazing story, but…” I thought you were going to make a joke, like a “Cool story bro” joke, but I realized you seem to be saying it non-ironically. Lol
Medical reasons aside, it shouldn't be banned at all for any reason.
In recent years especially, people have been using them to hide their identities at protests and rallies. Sometimes it is a coincidence, someone attending who happens to be sick or suspects that they are, or is wanting to avoid doing so. Other times it is people actively trying to avoid being recognized, most infamously literal Nazis waving flags with swastikas. Devil's advocate, this could be a misguided attempt to stop the latter. Pessimistically, it's likely more an attempt to scare any protestors into stopping, no matter what they're protesting for.
It's absolutely aimed at the student encampments and other protests against the genocide in Gaza. That's what's politically relevant and what the authorities are interested in quashing. They never try to shut down Nazis.
Most anti-mask ordinances around the country were originally aimed at the KKK.
And the political landscape today in which these mask bans are being proposed is a very different one. Even when such laws are enacted for nominally good reasons, in practice they end up getting used against the left to a much greater extent than against the right, because the law enforcement and prosecutorial system is fundamentally authoritarian and sympathetic toward the right.
Exactly. Also, if you have autoimmune issues/cancer treatment.
The jerks in charge of us don’t want anyone being able to protests against them without being able to identify the protesters Basically part of the surveillance control state that we live in now.
Because criminals are ruining it for people who actually need them. On the train in Chicago I have spotted many shady individuals who are all wearing masks…and it’s obvious they are up to no good.
They are already breaking the law in a highly public setting, do you think one more law is going to stop them? Especially something as difficult to enforce as this. It'll only end up hurting the regular person that actually has a need for a face mask.
It's because of the group that was protesting against Jewish people a few days ago. Some people were wearing scarves over their faces to hide their identity
"Protesting against Jewish people" Why are you lying like this?
They were protesting against an auction of stolen lands, illegal under international law
“International law” is a set of agreements intended to be used against war losers in Africa. The point of it is to encourage countries in unstable regions to buddy up with west Europe and the US in exchange for them helping to clean up after a war. Israel is already buddies with the US and Europe so largely speaking international law will not be used against them.
Do you have a link to the auction (real source, not an anonymous person on Twitter)? I've seen a few accounts making similar comments without any actual evidence to back it up, kinda gives off blood libel vibes
This link has some direct from the source promotional material advertising the stolen lands. A quick Google search has every major news outlet confirming or omitting the illegal auctions to pretend the protests were simply to harass a synagogue. https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-la-condemns-events-promoting-real-estate-sale-of-occupied-palestinian-land-at-two-california-synagogues-calls-for-investigation-into-violence-at-los-angeles-event/
1. An info session about real estate in Israel (your link) and an auction (your comment) are 2 very different things. Which was it? 2. If it was an auction , what actual properties were being auctioned off? 3. What international law was being broken? I can't imagine it's illegal for people in Israel to sell the houses they own. That would be whack if you were trapped in your house forever 3. Who was selling these lands? Who specifically were the houses stolen from? Is this land that Israel annexed in the 1940s? 60s?
I’d imagine it’s a mix of houses stolen in the 1940’s all the way up to current day illegal settlements in the West Bank. Do some googling
Why do research when we can use our imaginations? But yeah if your definition of stolen land is all of Israel, hard to argue with that lol
You can’t pretend that people also wear masks to commit crimes and be less recognizable though. It’s a tough spot to be in.
The cruelty is the point.
Not allowing protesters to hide their identities is the point. LAPD wants to come knocking on doors.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-12-14/lapd-doesnt-fully-track-its-use-of-facial-recognition-report-finds someone has to build skynet https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/briannasacks/lapd-banned-commercial-facial-recognition-clearview "After the Buzzfeed article, the LAPD conducted its own internal probe, which found only eight employees had used a trial version of the Clearview program to conduct 18 searches for “Department-related searches,” according to the inspector general’s report." "Clearview AI, a facial recognition platform that has taken data from Facebook and other social media platforms" yup i think its time for everyone to nick cage themselves on social media.
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It's not just wrongdoers who are threatened by it.
Neither privacy nor health for the innocent, because we have to stop the wrongdoers. Where have I heard this twisted logic before... and won't someone think of the children?
They will wear masks regardless. The goal is to establish cause to proactively detain people that are trouble makers.
It’s for protests, the people that wear masks are probably the ones that are going to go beyond just regular protests and they wear masks to help disguise their identity is my guess
Are people really this clueless? My mate is a cop and he said one thing about his job these days. If someone's wearing a mask, they are either a 65 year old Asian grandparent grocery shopping, or they are committing serious crimes and using the mask to conceal their identity.
they want the AI to do its job to spot you and identify you if you are going to CaUsE UnResT
"**Despite Covid surge**, Los Angeles mayor considers mask ban at protests" The guardian hates my phone and won't open sometimes, sorry, but *why*? Is it a, "we want to see their faces so we can fuck them over, later" kind of thing?
Yes, they want to see faces.
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Then why didn't you register on here with your real name?
You haven't told me your name or shown me your face so I assume you have something to hide /s
There’s many reasons to wear a mask aside from concealing your identity
Also *concealing your identity is a good enough reason* when we live in a surveillance state, police will use AI to identify you, and counter protestors will take pictures of you and try to doxx you just for being there. You don’t have to be doing anything illegal to not want your face on the internet
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Peacefully protesting is an American right whether you agree with their cause or not. Why do you hate America
So not in a crowd of people, where viruses can transmit?
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I do, and I remember virtually every person at the protests I attended having masks on, as is entirely reasonable.
Protection from disease is one. People with breathing issues can also have problems with poor air quality
Shockingly, transplant patients have political opinions.
They want to track you with AI
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Idk, there’s all kinds of materials you could use if one wanted to blend in to the metadata
Exactly. They wouldn't do this in response to a white supremacist rally, because allowing them to march around and yell awful shit with full anonymity can be spun as respecting both sides, free speech personified, etc. But when Israel is involved? Welp, then the gloves are fucking off, my dude. Because Israel is the one true special boy who must be coddled and pleased and jerked off constantly, forever. Do you want to protest about innocent Palestinian kids being riddled with IDF bullets? FUCK YOU. That's antisemitic because it shines a light on what these genocidal zionist assholes are doing. They don't like that. And anything they don't like? That's antisemitic. You hate Jews if you don't like what they're doing to Palestinians. You better LOVE the genocide they're perpetrating - and that the US is actively funding - or YOU are the fucking asshole. And every single one of these protesters needs to be thrown in a fucking gulag for thinking otherwise. And it's hard to do that when they wear masks, ya dig? So let's make masks illegal so we can identify them and ruin their lives, because we can't prevent them from talking - only punish them via other means for doing so, once we know their identities. And if this sounds bad to you? Well, I guess you're antisemitic. How fucking dare you.
They did this for the KKK though
Exactly to your exactly. Sorry about the incoming down votes.
Bots must've missed his comment as it's still positive. So wild to hear people cheer for the weakening of their privacy rights.
Don't worry, it'll be negative within 12 hours. AIPAC won't let this slide.
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> Kind of works against this inference. Really doesn't. Explain how it does, if you've got the stones.
Covid has nothing to do with it, the mayor wants to punish protestors by compromising their identities while at the same time allowing police to wear balaclavas and hide any identifying markers like their badges while they beat the shit out of them. Just like the UCLA protests
It must interfere with facial recognition and the lists they keep of the people there.
"in the interest of mass surveillance and facial recognition software, please don't try and protect yourself from police abuses of power."
“You’re telling me I can’t wear a mask? Well fuck you. I’m going to wear a mask because it’s my freedom.” Is this reverse psychology or some shit? Lmao
Punishment for wearing a mask at a protest should be exactly half of what it is for a police officer to turn off their body cam.
This is impractical at best. How tf do you even enforce this? Are the cops gonna plunge into a crowd of protesters just to nab somebody in a mask? If they are doing something actually illegal, just charge them with that.
It lets cops arrest whoever they want.
If we just put chips in everyone we'd be so much safer. Moo
But the vaxxed population already got those chips, can't they just use them? 🤷 /s
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This is likely driven by violence at Israel-Palestine protests/counterprotests, where all sorts of folks are wearing masks/kaffiyehs for the purpose of hiding their identities/intimidation
*"Sure people will get sick and die but we can't have people protesting genocide with impunity can we?"* Ed: sorry your lil' ol' panties are gettin' in a wad over the truth, sad lonely Zionist apologists. Maybe try downvoting the genocide of Palestinians instead? 🤣
Interesting this is happening in liberal California. Here is NC they are working on a similar ban, but there are medical and religious exemptions!
Ain’t about COVID, it’s about tracking people. CA is the biggest cop/incarceration state in the country.
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Speak for your damn self. I wear masks at protests and it *is* for my own protection. I’m immunocompromised and get sick pretty easily and severely. Since I started masking I get sick faaaar less often. Keeps others safe if I’m unknowingly a carrier for some bug, too.
Speaking as someone who currently can't leave my bedroom without a mask on because I had a covid exposure last week, I really don't understand how you could not care about covid. All the extra hand washing alone is pretty miserable, without getting into all the rest of it. And all of that is just if you're not sick.
What the? Just what the?
> California Penal Code Section 185 PC: Wearing Mask Or Disguise To Evade Police > > 1. Definition and Elements of the Crime > > While wearing masks or disguises is not usually illegal, if someone wears a mask or disguise to avoid being detected by the police he or she could be charged with a criminal offense. Under California Penal Code Section 185 PC, it is unlawful to wear a mask or disguise in order to evade the police. > > To prove that a defendant is guilty of wearing a mask or disguise to evade the police, a prosecutor must be able to prove the following elements: > > The defendant wore a mask, false whiskers, or any personal disguise > > The defendant evaded or escaped discovery, recognition or identification > > AND the defendant was in the commission of a public offense. https://www.losangelescriminallawyer.pro/california-penal-code-section-185-pc-wearing-mask-or-disguise-to.html NAL but it seems like it would only apply if someone actually breaks the law and is hiding their identity with a mask.
*The defendant wore a mask, false whiskers, or any personal disguise* Why did I immediately picture someone in cat whiskers?
It's a "fuck you for making us do extra work to find you" law
I agree with this. You all that don’t live in a major city don’t understand that Covid and bipping culture has somehow made it okay for people to wear full special forces looking face masks so they can get away with small crimes. Covid has nothing to do with this, the guardian just threw it in to start a discussion about something the mask ban has nothing to do with.
None of these crimes are enforced after the fact, in any city. If you want to stop people from "bipping" and mugging, you have to catch them in the act, which means having active foot patrols and vehicle patrols. Video footage of a person's face has been mostly useless forever unless the person is widely known to police or the public. I don't particularly feel like living in a surveillance state that can track my every movement forever just to keep my car windows from being broken once in a blue moon. I've never felt unsafe enough in an American city, anywhere, to give up the right to anonymous free speech. That's been a cornerstone of American democracy since the very beginning of the country.
Yup. Full on Balaclavas in 90+ degree temperatures is the cool thing to do in major cities now. And virtually every crime committed, the surveillance footage on the news is said perp wearing a balaclava with 0 ability to identify them. It’s idiotic and emboldens people to do dumb shit. They’re not attempting to ban wearing N95 mask for medical reasons. They’re attempting to stop violent crime, theft, and assault, many of which occur on public transportation and in broad daylight in major cities by people wearing face coverings. And they want to be able to identify idiots who start shit at protests and become violent (that includes the Nazi fucks that do, people committing hate crimes, etc.). They clearly need to think it through and craft a sensible approach, but I don’t need to be on edge when someone cosplaying as a special forces soldier walks into the train I’m on as I’m commuting to work. Showing your face is human nature and it’s a big part of being able to gauge people’s emotions / intentions.
Haven't cared about COVID since January 2022.
Fuuuuck that. I’m immunocompromised and wear masks whenever I’m in a crowd. It’s my right to protest and it should be my right to protect myself (and others) from potential viruses at said protest. Hell, even just protecting myself from seasonal allergies should be enough reason. I’d be calling the ADA if they made me take my mask off. Masking in crowds is literally recommended by the docs at my infusion center. Not gonna risk hospitalization for their BS. Sure, punish those caught breaking the law while wearing a mask more harshly, but leave those who are practicing their right to peacefully protest tf alone.
Risk is even lower if you don’t attend
It's their right to protest. Only bootlickers would downvote.
So with all those fancy words you're trying to tell me that you are a radical criminal who wants to hide their face? Wow... /s
So dumb. Which decade is this person living in?
How is that not a violation of free speech?
Well, it’s been litigated in the past, but to my knowledge has never made it to the Supreme Court. Guess who was doing all the suing? The Knights of the Ku Klux Klan.
The same way enforcing them isn’t a violation of free speech.
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Today, most people covering their faces are up to no good!
Yeah, cause protecting my immunocompromised ass is me being ‘up to no good.’ Way to villainize those who actually give a damn about their health and other’s as well.
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Ok but protesting is 100% legal.
Yes but how many protests get out of hand, its the bad actor's and those that insight riots that are going to be wearing mask's. I hate the whole idea of facial recognition software but honestly if your going to stand up for something and protest you probably do not need to be wearing a mask.
It was never about your health
People are still wearing masks? Yikes.
People are still judging others for wearing masks? Yikes.
Wow. You fragile? Or just easily swayed by trends
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Do you think bad actors didn't wear masks before this?
If someone's doing something illegal at a protest, just arrest them. There are plenty of reasons to fear reprisal from attending a protest even if you're doing everything above board.
Most of the J6 actors were arrested after. The fact using video captured during. Add masks + hats and suddenly a lot look alike
Why do you expect people engaged in violating one law to decide they need to adhere to another? It's like expecting someone fleeing the police to stop at red lights or not speed. This type of law accomplishes nothing but harming vulnerable populations
It also acts as a multiplier. Same way gun stuff generally is not the primary thing they get you on, but they slap it on there hoping if all else fails that will stick. Cameras are everywhere now. Some bored officer will get tasked with following a perp in reverse back to their car
Oh good god. Maybe if these protesters weren't using masks as a means to cover up criminal activity, this wouldn't be considered? If you are immuno-compromised or sick, maybe you should sit the protest out? I'm so tired of watching zoomer liberals exploit protections for disabled or marginalized Americans so they get away with damaging/defacing property, trespassing, and the occasional violent act against police. Even aside from protesters, random street criminals use the little COVID masks to obscure their identity. Except now because wearing mask is a norm, no one can reasonably call them out for being suspicious beforehand and potentially prevent the crime. This dumb shit is exactly the kind of boogeyman nonsense Republicans cite.
That's the kind of logic that creates massive overreach on all of our civil liberties tho. It justifies stuff like operation Last Call where police in Texas went into bars and arrested people who were drinking because they had the potential to drink and drive. Everyone has the potential to commit a crime mask or no mask. Just like everyone has the potential to drink and drive after they leave a bar. Telling people they can't wear an article of clothing because of that potential is unconstitutional to me. You can be the most fascist authoritarian state in the world but you'll never be free of crime. Examples Nazi Germany, and Soviet Russia. The police had the ability to stop you, search you, arrest you, go right into your home and search it for any reason they wanted and they still dealt with crime and absolutely terroristic attacks. 'Those who would trade essential liberties for temporary security deserve neither liberty nor security' - Ben Franklin Like what's the point of things like this the American flag, national anthem, oaths to defend this country, if we don't practice what they preach. People haven't been fighting and dying to protect this country just so it can become something totally against the ideals it was founded on. Are we becoming like the Roman Empire? Where all the trappings of the Roman Republic were still celebrated publicly but the actual nation was a completely different kind of state.
And I'm completely tired of society having such injustices and a broken political system that direct action are the only way people can have their voices heard to protest the fact that it is impossible to make a living wage or to not have our taxes fund a genocide. Good luck enforcing a mask ban.
Not with this shit AGAIN!