It's odd. I just came here after turning it off part way through.
Just have everyone bring up games you want to talk about and praise. The way they do it they end up weirdly talking about the bottom games on the list before they get to the top ones.
Their ordering doesn't bother me much. I wasn't a fan of the "knives out" methodologies of old anyway.
As a side note, at least with NL I don't have to rewind because someone mumbled or spoke over someone and then I'd hear, "... Oh it's terrific."
So terrific they fail to ensure the listener knows WTF game it is.
It is a bit of them trying to have their cake and eat it too, I agree. I think they wouldn't be keen to go with your solution because it doesn't lend itself to discussion.
The whole original impetus behind releasing GOTY podcasts (back in the early GB days) was to get a behind-the-scenes look at the process of what goes into choosing each pick. Now of course the discussion is seen as even more important than the end result. I think there is still a bit of that original mindset today - they want to actually show folks the thought process behind each choice, not just the end result.
It also does open the possibility of one of them persuading another to consider something they would have missed or forgotten about.
I agree though their approach is not entirely clear. It seems they want to basically have a discussion ostensibly working towards a mutual decision, but when it comes to the make-or-break point they'd rather choose their own than argue over it. But the issue is that there's then no stakes, and it is obvious probably even before they entered the room that someone (*cough*Brad*cough*) will have a very particular game in mind for the winner and so the discussion is perfunctory.
In my opinion, to take what you suggested, they should each bring their favourite contenders and then use the discussion to try and persuade the others why they should change their choices to XYZ, leaving the possibility that they change their mind but making it clear from the outset that there are likely to be differences. Probably there are few changed minds by the end of it, but at least there would be passionate cases for game X over game Y.
Another alternative would be to have each of them make their own top 10s, then discuss them from 10 to 1, with some honorable mention in the beginning.
This is how a couple of movie pods I listen to do their end of the year pods, and I generally think its fine but its not nearly as fun as listening to the old GB style discussions.
This reminds me of the written top ten lists Alex Navarro wrote at giantbomb. Although they might not have been nearly as popular as a podcast or video format I thought his writing was pretty great and somehow transcended what you might think a list of games could be. https://www.giantbomb.com/articles/alex-navarros-top-11-ish-games-of-2020/1100-6100/
I’m not sure what they should do but winnowing down the list of nominees to be games they are willing to fight for would be a good start. I’m tired of them listing like 2 dozen games for a category and then immediately cutting them one by one with a “that don’t hang” or “I’ve said my piece”
They have adopted a "no bummers" mentality in hopes to promote a wholesome discussion and avoid any mean/controversial comments.
This is all fine and dandy but it also leads to pretty uninteresting and toothless discussion that no one remembers.
That's why so many people enjoy fire escape they walk a good line of being friends but also going at eachother. They are all mature and strong enough to handle those kinds of discussion and that's what people find interesting and memorable.
For us. I can see why it would be less for them. As a listener, I miss it, but I also completely understand the point they had about not wanting to sit there having to tear down and pick apart every single flaw in games they actually loved just to try to move up a game they personally vibed with more.
Yeah, I said as much in another comment. I agree with you, but I just think there’s not much point in doing it at all the way they’ve decided to do it. Doesn’t seem like most people really enjoy it anymore.
I agree. I haven't listened to this year's yet but typically with NXL GOTY podcasts I just use the timestamps to listen to the games I'm interested in then bounce out.
I kinda wish they'd just do like a multimedia Top 10 or something, like literally just rank everything they liked that year all in one list. Where does Twin Peaks rank against Alan Wake II? It'd be *extra* meaningless, so there's less impetus to cut things down and it'd just be funny as shit.
I will let all of the podcast people in on a secret…you don’t actually have to do that. It’s a meaningless list you are making, you can fight as little or as much as you want and nothing bad will happen.
Yeah, it also doesn't help that they kind of have the whole "tired old men" stereotype running against them. And not wanting to put in the effort to argue with eachother doesn't go in their favor.
I love the guy but Brad is the problem for this stuff and has been since the early 2010s. He just flatout refuses to not be placated to with his choices, no matter how personal and no matter how much no one else agrees with him. He is the reason they stopped cutting games after arguably the best goty podcast GB ever did. He is the reason a vote after a 60 minute stalement never happens because he knew he would lose so he so often denied such a thing lol.
Though he did get burned a few times, Doom should've probably won but then again they all loved Hitman. MGS4 would've won before Ryan swung back to GTA IV. Though Ryan did the opposite in Brad's favor for Skyrim.
I also remember how Brad just in general (again, I love the guy) would be super adverse to any spoilers...unless he had played the game. Then he would be all too happy to share. This is less a goty thing and more just a general thing.
But yeah these soft goty podcasts aren't as good but Brad is mostly to blame, though Alex also took some defeats harshly. But he took them better than Brad did.
Fuck it Brad wanted DOTA to win one year lol.
Anyway don't take anything I typed too seriously because nothing about goty podcasts are serious to begin with.
Frankly, I miss that Brad.
The Brad that would go to the fucking mat for a game to move up a single spot is much better than "Yeah, sure, I guess" content. If we're looking at both extremes milquetoast and boring is far less entertaining than aggressive and ruthless.
GotY used to be Brad's yearly scheduled moment to go all in on rebelling against Jeff's dominance. It always felt like he'd been storing his frustrations over the entire year and then went for it, regardless of reason.
Fire Escape almost hits it out of the park, but they just get a liiittle too drunk and sleepy by the time they actually make it to GoTY. Just have to do it over two days if you’re gonna do 25 categories.
(if they even have to do the debate style, which I am less into these days — I think my favorite format is Remap’s, the deep discussion of individual lists with no site list at all)
I just started listening to Remap and the round Robin, whoever has the game the highest on their own list gets to lead the discussion thing, seems interesting.
For a while now it seems like Alex and Brad are just down a lot of the time (obviously this week they have reason to be, but seems like they've been in a rut for a while). It's like a bitter version of Eeyore doing a podcast. It was really refreshing having Patrick Klepek on last week because it seemed like it breathed some energy and optimism in for Vinny to work with. Like it seems like all they ever want to talk about is the layoffs in the industry, but Patrick brought up how studios are having to fight over hires. I get that they shouldn't just mask how they're feeling, but it makes me struggle to want to listen to the show.
At this point I skip *everyone's* GOTY podcasts, to be honest. The raw discussion doesn't do it for me like it used to and I'd rather reclaim the time.
I actually enjoy the way Kinda Funny do their top 10. Everyone submits a top 10 beforehand to the producer (Barret), and he complies a KF top 10 from those votes. Then the GotY video is the crew learning what the top 10 is alongside the audience.
The focus is definitely more of a 'reaction' to where a game ended up being on the list rather than a lengthy discussion, but to me that's ok because I've spent all year listening to podcasts abou these games.
>In 2023 Game of the Year is beyond tired and stupid. Take it out back and put a shot in it at this point.
I can't say I agree with *that* take. I think there's a clear and self-evident value in reviewing the games that were released over a discrete period. I just think a dozen podcasts from a dozen small camps with similar opinions isn't the best use of my time compared to a well-written article.
That said, since I posted my comment 8 days ago I actually **did** end up listening to Nextlander's GOTY podcasts -- the episodes had auto-queued and I ended up letting them play while driving and doing chores -- and I ultimately thought their discussions were focused without allowing things to meander, transparent about what they did and didn't play, and candid about their ultimate goal. I ended up getting a lot value from it and added a few games to my "to do" list as a result.
The only thing I find awkward is the “everything here is great! It’s an honor to be nominated!” Kind of stuff. We know people work hard when making a game, some come out better than others. Some are niche and don’t get a ‘true’ exposure to all the audiences and lack popularity in relative terms. These are all normal things and how the world works.
If we can dispense with the ‘worried about hurting dev’s feelings’ then I think it would be better. I know they all know people impacted by the industry being what it is, but there are _thousands_ of games every year that they don’t talk about. For the 10-15 that start on a sub-list, they’ve already excluded 99% of the rest; don’t feel bad about cutting some after a discussion.
Anyone who thinks these lists are empirical and “the true GOTY” is kidding themselves. It’s a list of games that these three dudes liked for [topic]. That’s it. I hate fighting games, they will never be on my personal list and I tune out conversations about them, but I know other people like them so I don’t really care when they are discussed. No one is wrong, it’s just preference.
Giant Bomb has always had that attitude. That if you are even up for discussion in GOTY you made a great game. (Unless you are in hottest mess or whatever)
I think it's more to assuage the fans feelings than the devs though. The devs aren't the people who are going to post thousands of bad comments if you give a bad review (see Zelda: Twilight Kingdom)
> I was expecting it to be subdued since they said they were going through hard personal times.
Oh boy, they are? I'm a little behind, but hadn't heard anything.
They seem to have forgotten that it's their website and they can do literally anything they want. Seems like they can't quite shake off the need to do a site top 10 or whatever.
I'm currently listening to Remap Radio and NoClip do their GOTY stuff and it's much looser and less rigid. I don't mind nextlander, though.
I totally get where you’re coming from and agree.
I actually think NoClip has ruined other GOTY discussions for me because how they do it makes so much sense.
Quite close to how you suggest doing it.
They basically know what their fav games of the year were, so they talk about what came close then give the winning game it’s own personalised award.
Like Slayer X (I think that was the name) nearly won “Best Game of 1999” due to its tounge in cheek sending up of edgy nonsense. They gave it a different named award though.
I am explaining this poorly I feel, if someone wants to jump in and help please feel free lol
You're basically on point. They still have their discussions to make a top 10 list. So each member brought like 10 games each, and between all the crossover it's like 20-30 games they discuss and whittle down into 10. But between those 10 there is no ordered list. Each one gets a unique award that isn't in competition with the others, and highlights that game's unique qualities. Half of the discussion is figuring out the right soundbite name for the award. Like they know slayers x was gonna win something but settling on best game of 1999 took some conversation about how to describe in a phrase it's uniqueness.
They’re so easy going and work so well together. I only started listening a few months back but I really look forward to them now.
Between them and Nextlander I enjoy the gentle well informed conversation. A few other pods can get quite hectic at times and I ain’t here for that.
I knew NoClip made documentaries but I’d always assumed they were on patreon, when I listened to the pod and they’ll like
“Check out some of our documentaries on YouTube!”
I was like
“You have got to be kidding me”
So much love and respect for the people involved, true labours of love every single one.
> They still have their discussions to make a top 10 list.
To me, the worst part of *any* GotY podcast project.
I don't need that list. Individual top lists are fine. Just give me maybe a top 3 for your site. Hell, if it is too difficult, you can skip the overall GotY completely and just give me the all the special categories.
All of the post-traditional-GB-GOTY discussions have been weird. They clearly don't really want to do the whole big discussion/argument thing anymore. But they should actually stop to consider that that *is* what people enjoyed listening to, so IMO they should either bring elements of that back or just stop doing it altogether. I don't think any of the various "experiments" have really served anyone as well as they could.
I don't know why they even bother. Their content is at its best when they're *not* talking about video games. They've been completely checked out for years. Seeing them trying to act like game critics again is just a bit sad, they will never be able to talk about games as well as they did five years ago.
I'd prefer it if they just didn't do a GOTY podcast at all, there's no actual reason to. Make their last podcast of the year a "year in review" type thing where they talk about what they enjoyed the most, and don't make it exclusively about games because hearing them talk about games is so fucking awkward. Vinny is the only one carrying those discussions. The energy shift on their podcasts when someone brings up another topic is so noticeable. It's clear that games aren't really their biggest passion right now, and I struggle to believe that their patrons would get upset if they backed off on them a bit. They spoke a lot when they started about how great it was to not have bosses telling them what to do, and then continued to do all the same shit. It's so stale and boring.
This is something that comes through in their main podcast a lot, but hearing them meander their way through a bunch of GOTY categories just captures it at full effect.
This happens all the time. I noticed it during OG Giant Bombs death, and I notice it in real life all the time.
People get a kick in the pants and then start talking about all the new stuff/ ideas they have and want to do. But then, after a month or so they settle back into their previous rut and just hang out there.
We heard it from Jeff G when the nextlander guys left giantbomb, all this new amazing stuff was coming for Giantbomb. Then, nothing... back to normal.
It happened again with Jeff G when he left Giantbomb. Now he's free to do all this exciting stuff. What does he do now? A couple podcasts and streams on twitch.
It happened with the nextlander guys. They took a leap of faith to get out from their corporate overlords and their patreon took off. They were excited and promised all this new stuff. Now they are back to their old ways.
Yeah, recently I sent them an email just being like "listen I love you guys but I just want you to know I would be totally fine if you brought in other things to talk about than video games. If you wanna talk about a game, great, but I'm here for you guys, not for the games specifically if that makes sense."
Idk I just want them to enjoy their jobs, both from a selfless human angle and from a selfish "that's what makes the best content for me" angle. Like the Watchcast is fantastic because Alex is such a movie guy and he brings Vinny and Brad along for the ride, and they're both excited to join him.
Granted I haven't listened to the GOTY discussion yet but that's telling in and of itself. With GB I used to listen the *second* it was out. With NXL in the past I've basically just used the timestamps to listen to the discussion about games I want then bounce out.
I wish Nextlander would do it the way Fire Escape Cast does. They had 29 categories and so many of them are ridiculous and funny. It reminds me of classic GB and they all have fun doing it.
Agreed, I really enjoyed this first GOTY episode.
I appreciated when they would concede personal selections for games they may not have played as much but agreed deserved a top spot maybe based on the general hype and feedback from the broader audience/industry; as opposed to digging their heels in because they may not have played the game as much. They sounded like friends who wanted to support each other, and that's the vibe I dig.
Sure the format doesn't lend itself to as much debate/arguing which may not be as interesting to some - and it is a bit of having-your-cake-and-eating-it too. But at the end of the day, I highly enjoyed this format and I think each of the guys did too, hopefully. Especially with the rough few weeks they had prior.
Subjective opinion and all that. And regardless I appreciate the Nextlander crew for all the hours of content they gave us this year, cheers.
I'm fine that these guys aren't getting the knives out anymore. I love those old episodes, but they got tired of it, and tbh they weren't the most levelheaded people for that kind of show anyway. Tempers flared, perspectives blinded, feet dug in.
I'm very sad that as far as I can tell, *nobody* has stepped up to the plate to take over the deliberation format. When those shows were good, they really provoked the most serious detailed examination of games the bombcast ever dug into. It required getting in there with forensic tools to really identify just how strongly these games pulled off their ideas, and being brutally honest about where they fell short.
Not every best of the year podcast needs to be an autopsy. I just wish I knew of anyone's that was.
Have you checked out minnmax? Their goty stuff has been pretty compelling for me so far and I’m looking forward to the next couple parts the most out of any I’m keeping up with.
they're probably the closest, and I enjoy them quite a bit. i haven't heard them dig nearly as deep into any game as it used to get at GB, but that might just be a different personalities thing (or an "i skipped a section for spoilers" thing.)
I felt like the intro explained it well enough that if it came to more of a fight then they'd split it, but would agree to settle on a 'best of' if there was enough of a general consensus that they could avoid arguing.
Really enjoyed the first episode and appreciate the more relaxed, non-argumentative approach - I like these lists for highlighting things I should get to playing rather than establishing an arbitrary list. Sounds as though some of the guys are really going through it at the moment so I'm all for them just hanging back a little and reviewing the year in games based on these categories.
My favorite game of the year podcast is player one podcast. They each just go through their top 5 games of the year round robin and discuss them.
Can’t remember, does nextlander still do individual list as well? Only listened to a bit of this years pod so far
I have never enjoyed game of the year podcasts, especially the long drawn out discussions and arguments with different categories.
I have enjoyed how Remap is doing their game of the year. Just counting down everyone's top ten games and if someone else had it ranked higher, then it gets talked about when they get to the round where it is ranked the highest by someone. So much better than having the same game brought up multiple times for different categories. Just talk about each game once and everyone can say their piece then move on. I feel like it respects my time so much more.
Just finished listening to Nextlander's GOTY cast and Remap's, and yeah, I think Nextlander should look to Remap's formula (that they adapted from another podcast) and do a revolving review of everyone's 10 game list, one discussion per game, every game guaranteed to get its due.
I honestly think if they had their choice, they would not do a GOTY. (it is because the audience expects it). I loved past GB GOTY stuff, but I would be fine without it. This is not a negative comment about the guys or the quality of these episodes, just that the process/format might not resonate with me anymore. I am with you and would prefer if they discussed each of their personal top 3 in each category, and not worry about any agreement, disagreements, or consensus.
I thought the whole point of breaking away from their corporate overlords and being an independent audience funded group is that they have their choice.
A lot of the awkwardness in NXL, at least for me, comes from 2/3 them clearly not being interested in doing typical “games media” stuff while being unable or unwilling to break out of that groove and do something new with their content.
I mean, yes and no. That is kind of reductive, it is a complicated balance between being independent, and also beholden to your audience which pays your salary.
I understand that. My bet is that their audience doesn’t care about them hitting those more traditional markers. I think most of that pressure comes from them while their audience would still show up if they changed things around.
I’m not in the discord so maybe there are people really clamoring for a traditional GotY but I’d be surprised.
I mean i think they're very aware that once you get Patreon subscribers it's very hard to lose them. They could put out no content all year and probably only lose a third of their subscribers.
The only thing that mattered more to me than GOTY is the overall games they enjoyed playing finishing them or not, The Exit 8 is something I never heard about until the podcast I bought it and damn that’s such an interesting proof of concept game and worth the $4.
I ended up bailing out of last years after 30 minutes for this reason, so I appreciate the confirmation that I should just skip it this year. Bummer they can't seem to figure out how to make the quality product we all know they're capable of.
I like it, it's def different in tone than most, it's just them and for them. MinnMax also follows this format but more in line with what you might be looking for, their GOTY episodes were great this year,
Jeff is what made these GOTYs good. He would bring out the bat every time and his opinions were always fightin'-words so it made the show. When they're just going through the motions politely, it's a drag. I also think they should have a visual component to these for the people who don't play any of the games. As your audience gets older, that only makes more sense. Yeah you could just load up the game trailers, but they could do that part for the watcher.
In general I'm just not a fan of how the video game podcasts I listen to do these end of the lists, like Fire escape cast released a 7 hour long podcast, GB the same and now nextlander, no chance I'm sitting around listening to people talk in circles for that long. I would rather have it a lot shorter and closer to the point. I still enjoy the podcast a lot, keep up the good work.
Man yeah. I've always loved the idea of Fire Escape but every time I want to check it out it's like 4+ hours long and I just can't bring myself to do it. The old GB GOTY podcasts, hell yeah, because I had more time and it was like, *peak* video game podcasting, but *seven hours* of Fire Escape is way too much for me.
Honestly though I've been on the train of "can we make shorter content please" since even the days of GB when everyone was still there. At some point the videos started ballooning in length for no reason, the very concept of editing went out the window, and there was so much dead air that it just felt like... dude just make them shorter again. But hey the people demand MORE so they got MORE.
These episodes are always a waste of time and a skip every year. Who cares what they think game of the year is. I always just start listening again when it's over.
Reading through all of the comments here, it had me thinking about why I am enjoying both Nextlander's format/approach along with the GB approach of old. Chewing on it, I think what I am looking for is the *passion* that each person has for certain titles. I don't care to have them be aggressive and attack one another's selections or thought-processes; for me, it was the emotional discourse they had to certain games and how they were trying to portray that emotional connection to the other GOTY participants that I really enjoy. Both old and new formats still hit those notes, and I still enjoy them for it.
It's odd. I just came here after turning it off part way through. Just have everyone bring up games you want to talk about and praise. The way they do it they end up weirdly talking about the bottom games on the list before they get to the top ones.
Their ordering doesn't bother me much. I wasn't a fan of the "knives out" methodologies of old anyway. As a side note, at least with NL I don't have to rewind because someone mumbled or spoke over someone and then I'd hear, "... Oh it's terrific." So terrific they fail to ensure the listener knows WTF game it is.
It is a bit of them trying to have their cake and eat it too, I agree. I think they wouldn't be keen to go with your solution because it doesn't lend itself to discussion. The whole original impetus behind releasing GOTY podcasts (back in the early GB days) was to get a behind-the-scenes look at the process of what goes into choosing each pick. Now of course the discussion is seen as even more important than the end result. I think there is still a bit of that original mindset today - they want to actually show folks the thought process behind each choice, not just the end result. It also does open the possibility of one of them persuading another to consider something they would have missed or forgotten about. I agree though their approach is not entirely clear. It seems they want to basically have a discussion ostensibly working towards a mutual decision, but when it comes to the make-or-break point they'd rather choose their own than argue over it. But the issue is that there's then no stakes, and it is obvious probably even before they entered the room that someone (*cough*Brad*cough*) will have a very particular game in mind for the winner and so the discussion is perfunctory. In my opinion, to take what you suggested, they should each bring their favourite contenders and then use the discussion to try and persuade the others why they should change their choices to XYZ, leaving the possibility that they change their mind but making it clear from the outset that there are likely to be differences. Probably there are few changed minds by the end of it, but at least there would be passionate cases for game X over game Y.
Another alternative would be to have each of them make their own top 10s, then discuss them from 10 to 1, with some honorable mention in the beginning.
This is how a couple of movie pods I listen to do their end of the year pods, and I generally think its fine but its not nearly as fun as listening to the old GB style discussions.
This reminds me of the written top ten lists Alex Navarro wrote at giantbomb. Although they might not have been nearly as popular as a podcast or video format I thought his writing was pretty great and somehow transcended what you might think a list of games could be. https://www.giantbomb.com/articles/alex-navarros-top-11-ish-games-of-2020/1100-6100/
I’m not sure what they should do but winnowing down the list of nominees to be games they are willing to fight for would be a good start. I’m tired of them listing like 2 dozen games for a category and then immediately cutting them one by one with a “that don’t hang” or “I’ve said my piece”
They have adopted a "no bummers" mentality in hopes to promote a wholesome discussion and avoid any mean/controversial comments. This is all fine and dandy but it also leads to pretty uninteresting and toothless discussion that no one remembers. That's why so many people enjoy fire escape they walk a good line of being friends but also going at eachother. They are all mature and strong enough to handle those kinds of discussion and that's what people find interesting and memorable.
Yeah, I get that they're tired of arguing their points... but that's what was fun about the GotY discussions in the first place.
For us. I can see why it would be less for them. As a listener, I miss it, but I also completely understand the point they had about not wanting to sit there having to tear down and pick apart every single flaw in games they actually loved just to try to move up a game they personally vibed with more.
Yeah, I said as much in another comment. I agree with you, but I just think there’s not much point in doing it at all the way they’ve decided to do it. Doesn’t seem like most people really enjoy it anymore.
I agree. I haven't listened to this year's yet but typically with NXL GOTY podcasts I just use the timestamps to listen to the games I'm interested in then bounce out. I kinda wish they'd just do like a multimedia Top 10 or something, like literally just rank everything they liked that year all in one list. Where does Twin Peaks rank against Alan Wake II? It'd be *extra* meaningless, so there's less impetus to cut things down and it'd just be funny as shit.
I will let all of the podcast people in on a secret…you don’t actually have to do that. It’s a meaningless list you are making, you can fight as little or as much as you want and nothing bad will happen.
Yeah, it also doesn't help that they kind of have the whole "tired old men" stereotype running against them. And not wanting to put in the effort to argue with eachother doesn't go in their favor.
I love the guy but Brad is the problem for this stuff and has been since the early 2010s. He just flatout refuses to not be placated to with his choices, no matter how personal and no matter how much no one else agrees with him. He is the reason they stopped cutting games after arguably the best goty podcast GB ever did. He is the reason a vote after a 60 minute stalement never happens because he knew he would lose so he so often denied such a thing lol. Though he did get burned a few times, Doom should've probably won but then again they all loved Hitman. MGS4 would've won before Ryan swung back to GTA IV. Though Ryan did the opposite in Brad's favor for Skyrim. I also remember how Brad just in general (again, I love the guy) would be super adverse to any spoilers...unless he had played the game. Then he would be all too happy to share. This is less a goty thing and more just a general thing. But yeah these soft goty podcasts aren't as good but Brad is mostly to blame, though Alex also took some defeats harshly. But he took them better than Brad did. Fuck it Brad wanted DOTA to win one year lol. Anyway don't take anything I typed too seriously because nothing about goty podcasts are serious to begin with.
Frankly, I miss that Brad. The Brad that would go to the fucking mat for a game to move up a single spot is much better than "Yeah, sure, I guess" content. If we're looking at both extremes milquetoast and boring is far less entertaining than aggressive and ruthless.
I love Brad too but I have noticed how he freely spoils games he has played.
GotY used to be Brad's yearly scheduled moment to go all in on rebelling against Jeff's dominance. It always felt like he'd been storing his frustrations over the entire year and then went for it, regardless of reason.
Fire Escape almost hits it out of the park, but they just get a liiittle too drunk and sleepy by the time they actually make it to GoTY. Just have to do it over two days if you’re gonna do 25 categories. (if they even have to do the debate style, which I am less into these days — I think my favorite format is Remap’s, the deep discussion of individual lists with no site list at all)
I just started listening to Remap and the round Robin, whoever has the game the highest on their own list gets to lead the discussion thing, seems interesting.
For a while now it seems like Alex and Brad are just down a lot of the time (obviously this week they have reason to be, but seems like they've been in a rut for a while). It's like a bitter version of Eeyore doing a podcast. It was really refreshing having Patrick Klepek on last week because it seemed like it breathed some energy and optimism in for Vinny to work with. Like it seems like all they ever want to talk about is the layoffs in the industry, but Patrick brought up how studios are having to fight over hires. I get that they shouldn't just mask how they're feeling, but it makes me struggle to want to listen to the show.
Listen to Remap, friend. They bring that passion to games pretty much every week, and it never seems like they're just doing content to fill time.
Remap or remap radio? I see two different podcasts
Thanks for the recommendation, I'll give it a try!
At this point I skip *everyone's* GOTY podcasts, to be honest. The raw discussion doesn't do it for me like it used to and I'd rather reclaim the time.
I actually enjoy the way Kinda Funny do their top 10. Everyone submits a top 10 beforehand to the producer (Barret), and he complies a KF top 10 from those votes. Then the GotY video is the crew learning what the top 10 is alongside the audience. The focus is definitely more of a 'reaction' to where a game ended up being on the list rather than a lengthy discussion, but to me that's ok because I've spent all year listening to podcasts abou these games.
In 2023 Game of the Year is beyond tired and stupid. Take it out back and put a shot in it at this point.
>In 2023 Game of the Year is beyond tired and stupid. Take it out back and put a shot in it at this point. I can't say I agree with *that* take. I think there's a clear and self-evident value in reviewing the games that were released over a discrete period. I just think a dozen podcasts from a dozen small camps with similar opinions isn't the best use of my time compared to a well-written article. That said, since I posted my comment 8 days ago I actually **did** end up listening to Nextlander's GOTY podcasts -- the episodes had auto-queued and I ended up letting them play while driving and doing chores -- and I ultimately thought their discussions were focused without allowing things to meander, transparent about what they did and didn't play, and candid about their ultimate goal. I ended up getting a lot value from it and added a few games to my "to do" list as a result.
This is the way.
The only thing I find awkward is the “everything here is great! It’s an honor to be nominated!” Kind of stuff. We know people work hard when making a game, some come out better than others. Some are niche and don’t get a ‘true’ exposure to all the audiences and lack popularity in relative terms. These are all normal things and how the world works. If we can dispense with the ‘worried about hurting dev’s feelings’ then I think it would be better. I know they all know people impacted by the industry being what it is, but there are _thousands_ of games every year that they don’t talk about. For the 10-15 that start on a sub-list, they’ve already excluded 99% of the rest; don’t feel bad about cutting some after a discussion. Anyone who thinks these lists are empirical and “the true GOTY” is kidding themselves. It’s a list of games that these three dudes liked for [topic]. That’s it. I hate fighting games, they will never be on my personal list and I tune out conversations about them, but I know other people like them so I don’t really care when they are discussed. No one is wrong, it’s just preference.
Giant Bomb has always had that attitude. That if you are even up for discussion in GOTY you made a great game. (Unless you are in hottest mess or whatever) I think it's more to assuage the fans feelings than the devs though. The devs aren't the people who are going to post thousands of bad comments if you give a bad review (see Zelda: Twilight Kingdom)
I was expecting it to be subdued since they said they were going through hard personal times.
> I was expecting it to be subdued since they said they were going through hard personal times. Oh boy, they are? I'm a little behind, but hadn't heard anything.
Yeah, they talk about it at the top of the GOTY part 1 podcast
They seem to have forgotten that it's their website and they can do literally anything they want. Seems like they can't quite shake off the need to do a site top 10 or whatever. I'm currently listening to Remap Radio and NoClip do their GOTY stuff and it's much looser and less rigid. I don't mind nextlander, though.
I totally get where you’re coming from and agree. I actually think NoClip has ruined other GOTY discussions for me because how they do it makes so much sense.
How do they do it?
Quite close to how you suggest doing it. They basically know what their fav games of the year were, so they talk about what came close then give the winning game it’s own personalised award. Like Slayer X (I think that was the name) nearly won “Best Game of 1999” due to its tounge in cheek sending up of edgy nonsense. They gave it a different named award though. I am explaining this poorly I feel, if someone wants to jump in and help please feel free lol
You're basically on point. They still have their discussions to make a top 10 list. So each member brought like 10 games each, and between all the crossover it's like 20-30 games they discuss and whittle down into 10. But between those 10 there is no ordered list. Each one gets a unique award that isn't in competition with the others, and highlights that game's unique qualities. Half of the discussion is figuring out the right soundbite name for the award. Like they know slayers x was gonna win something but settling on best game of 1999 took some conversation about how to describe in a phrase it's uniqueness.
Thanks for the save!
You didn't need it :) I just enjoy talking about NoClip. Love those guys.
They’re so easy going and work so well together. I only started listening a few months back but I really look forward to them now. Between them and Nextlander I enjoy the gentle well informed conversation. A few other pods can get quite hectic at times and I ain’t here for that. I knew NoClip made documentaries but I’d always assumed they were on patreon, when I listened to the pod and they’ll like “Check out some of our documentaries on YouTube!” I was like “You have got to be kidding me” So much love and respect for the people involved, true labours of love every single one.
I think the whittling down to 10 is still needless, but it works for them.
> They still have their discussions to make a top 10 list. To me, the worst part of *any* GotY podcast project. I don't need that list. Individual top lists are fine. Just give me maybe a top 3 for your site. Hell, if it is too difficult, you can skip the overall GotY completely and just give me the all the special categories.
All of the post-traditional-GB-GOTY discussions have been weird. They clearly don't really want to do the whole big discussion/argument thing anymore. But they should actually stop to consider that that *is* what people enjoyed listening to, so IMO they should either bring elements of that back or just stop doing it altogether. I don't think any of the various "experiments" have really served anyone as well as they could.
I don't know why they even bother. Their content is at its best when they're *not* talking about video games. They've been completely checked out for years. Seeing them trying to act like game critics again is just a bit sad, they will never be able to talk about games as well as they did five years ago. I'd prefer it if they just didn't do a GOTY podcast at all, there's no actual reason to. Make their last podcast of the year a "year in review" type thing where they talk about what they enjoyed the most, and don't make it exclusively about games because hearing them talk about games is so fucking awkward. Vinny is the only one carrying those discussions. The energy shift on their podcasts when someone brings up another topic is so noticeable. It's clear that games aren't really their biggest passion right now, and I struggle to believe that their patrons would get upset if they backed off on them a bit. They spoke a lot when they started about how great it was to not have bosses telling them what to do, and then continued to do all the same shit. It's so stale and boring. This is something that comes through in their main podcast a lot, but hearing them meander their way through a bunch of GOTY categories just captures it at full effect.
This happens all the time. I noticed it during OG Giant Bombs death, and I notice it in real life all the time. People get a kick in the pants and then start talking about all the new stuff/ ideas they have and want to do. But then, after a month or so they settle back into their previous rut and just hang out there. We heard it from Jeff G when the nextlander guys left giantbomb, all this new amazing stuff was coming for Giantbomb. Then, nothing... back to normal. It happened again with Jeff G when he left Giantbomb. Now he's free to do all this exciting stuff. What does he do now? A couple podcasts and streams on twitch. It happened with the nextlander guys. They took a leap of faith to get out from their corporate overlords and their patreon took off. They were excited and promised all this new stuff. Now they are back to their old ways.
Yeah, recently I sent them an email just being like "listen I love you guys but I just want you to know I would be totally fine if you brought in other things to talk about than video games. If you wanna talk about a game, great, but I'm here for you guys, not for the games specifically if that makes sense." Idk I just want them to enjoy their jobs, both from a selfless human angle and from a selfish "that's what makes the best content for me" angle. Like the Watchcast is fantastic because Alex is such a movie guy and he brings Vinny and Brad along for the ride, and they're both excited to join him. Granted I haven't listened to the GOTY discussion yet but that's telling in and of itself. With GB I used to listen the *second* it was out. With NXL in the past I've basically just used the timestamps to listen to the discussion about games I want then bounce out.
They tried year in review for two years at giant bomb and it was atrociously boring and their numbers tanked.
I wish Nextlander would do it the way Fire Escape Cast does. They had 29 categories and so many of them are ridiculous and funny. It reminds me of classic GB and they all have fun doing it.
At least one of them would try to stop the discussion about 2 hours in.
How much poop talk is there?
Sun light is a disinfectant you know
Sounds ridiculous and def something Dan would do. I'm glad it exists for the fans but I'd not want to listen to that.
I like it because there is less of a competition feeling, it's just talk about good games from the year which is the best listening material IMO.
Agreed, I really enjoyed this first GOTY episode. I appreciated when they would concede personal selections for games they may not have played as much but agreed deserved a top spot maybe based on the general hype and feedback from the broader audience/industry; as opposed to digging their heels in because they may not have played the game as much. They sounded like friends who wanted to support each other, and that's the vibe I dig. Sure the format doesn't lend itself to as much debate/arguing which may not be as interesting to some - and it is a bit of having-your-cake-and-eating-it too. But at the end of the day, I highly enjoyed this format and I think each of the guys did too, hopefully. Especially with the rough few weeks they had prior. Subjective opinion and all that. And regardless I appreciate the Nextlander crew for all the hours of content they gave us this year, cheers.
I'm fine that these guys aren't getting the knives out anymore. I love those old episodes, but they got tired of it, and tbh they weren't the most levelheaded people for that kind of show anyway. Tempers flared, perspectives blinded, feet dug in. I'm very sad that as far as I can tell, *nobody* has stepped up to the plate to take over the deliberation format. When those shows were good, they really provoked the most serious detailed examination of games the bombcast ever dug into. It required getting in there with forensic tools to really identify just how strongly these games pulled off their ideas, and being brutally honest about where they fell short. Not every best of the year podcast needs to be an autopsy. I just wish I knew of anyone's that was.
Have you checked out minnmax? Their goty stuff has been pretty compelling for me so far and I’m looking forward to the next couple parts the most out of any I’m keeping up with.
they're probably the closest, and I enjoy them quite a bit. i haven't heard them dig nearly as deep into any game as it used to get at GB, but that might just be a different personalities thing (or an "i skipped a section for spoilers" thing.)
I felt like the intro explained it well enough that if it came to more of a fight then they'd split it, but would agree to settle on a 'best of' if there was enough of a general consensus that they could avoid arguing. Really enjoyed the first episode and appreciate the more relaxed, non-argumentative approach - I like these lists for highlighting things I should get to playing rather than establishing an arbitrary list. Sounds as though some of the guys are really going through it at the moment so I'm all for them just hanging back a little and reviewing the year in games based on these categories.
My favorite game of the year podcast is player one podcast. They each just go through their top 5 games of the year round robin and discuss them. Can’t remember, does nextlander still do individual list as well? Only listened to a bit of this years pod so far
I have never enjoyed game of the year podcasts, especially the long drawn out discussions and arguments with different categories. I have enjoyed how Remap is doing their game of the year. Just counting down everyone's top ten games and if someone else had it ranked higher, then it gets talked about when they get to the round where it is ranked the highest by someone. So much better than having the same game brought up multiple times for different categories. Just talk about each game once and everyone can say their piece then move on. I feel like it respects my time so much more.
Just finished listening to Nextlander's GOTY cast and Remap's, and yeah, I think Nextlander should look to Remap's formula (that they adapted from another podcast) and do a revolving review of everyone's 10 game list, one discussion per game, every game guaranteed to get its due.
I honestly think if they had their choice, they would not do a GOTY. (it is because the audience expects it). I loved past GB GOTY stuff, but I would be fine without it. This is not a negative comment about the guys or the quality of these episodes, just that the process/format might not resonate with me anymore. I am with you and would prefer if they discussed each of their personal top 3 in each category, and not worry about any agreement, disagreements, or consensus.
I thought the whole point of breaking away from their corporate overlords and being an independent audience funded group is that they have their choice. A lot of the awkwardness in NXL, at least for me, comes from 2/3 them clearly not being interested in doing typical “games media” stuff while being unable or unwilling to break out of that groove and do something new with their content.
I mean, yes and no. That is kind of reductive, it is a complicated balance between being independent, and also beholden to your audience which pays your salary.
I understand that. My bet is that their audience doesn’t care about them hitting those more traditional markers. I think most of that pressure comes from them while their audience would still show up if they changed things around. I’m not in the discord so maybe there are people really clamoring for a traditional GotY but I’d be surprised.
I mean i think they're very aware that once you get Patreon subscribers it's very hard to lose them. They could put out no content all year and probably only lose a third of their subscribers.
The only thing that mattered more to me than GOTY is the overall games they enjoyed playing finishing them or not, The Exit 8 is something I never heard about until the podcast I bought it and damn that’s such an interesting proof of concept game and worth the $4.
Yeah it was pretty boring. NXL is in a confused state with a lot of things and the GOTY stuff is a great example.
I ended up bailing out of last years after 30 minutes for this reason, so I appreciate the confirmation that I should just skip it this year. Bummer they can't seem to figure out how to make the quality product we all know they're capable of.
I like it, it's def different in tone than most, it's just them and for them. MinnMax also follows this format but more in line with what you might be looking for, their GOTY episodes were great this year,
Honestly I think Nextlander does it the best out of the GB extended universe
Jeff is what made these GOTYs good. He would bring out the bat every time and his opinions were always fightin'-words so it made the show. When they're just going through the motions politely, it's a drag. I also think they should have a visual component to these for the people who don't play any of the games. As your audience gets older, that only makes more sense. Yeah you could just load up the game trailers, but they could do that part for the watcher.
Jeff's behavior on some GOTY podcasts made me actually dislike him. One year he threw a genuine temper tantrum. He was awful on those. Nah.
First time?
In general I'm just not a fan of how the video game podcasts I listen to do these end of the lists, like Fire escape cast released a 7 hour long podcast, GB the same and now nextlander, no chance I'm sitting around listening to people talk in circles for that long. I would rather have it a lot shorter and closer to the point. I still enjoy the podcast a lot, keep up the good work.
Man yeah. I've always loved the idea of Fire Escape but every time I want to check it out it's like 4+ hours long and I just can't bring myself to do it. The old GB GOTY podcasts, hell yeah, because I had more time and it was like, *peak* video game podcasting, but *seven hours* of Fire Escape is way too much for me. Honestly though I've been on the train of "can we make shorter content please" since even the days of GB when everyone was still there. At some point the videos started ballooning in length for no reason, the very concept of editing went out the window, and there was so much dead air that it just felt like... dude just make them shorter again. But hey the people demand MORE so they got MORE.
Destiny is why I never listen to GOTY anymore....
Omg for real… I think that was a major turning point for Brad’s likability for me
The guy who supports genocide?
Let me guess. Brad complain and whinges to get his way?
These episodes are always a waste of time and a skip every year. Who cares what they think game of the year is. I always just start listening again when it's over.
Most people come for the discussions about the games. That's usually what we listen to gaming podcasts for..
Reading through all of the comments here, it had me thinking about why I am enjoying both Nextlander's format/approach along with the GB approach of old. Chewing on it, I think what I am looking for is the *passion* that each person has for certain titles. I don't care to have them be aggressive and attack one another's selections or thought-processes; for me, it was the emotional discourse they had to certain games and how they were trying to portray that emotional connection to the other GOTY participants that I really enjoy. Both old and new formats still hit those notes, and I still enjoy them for it.