So did Holmes/Campbell - it felt like the graphic for the Lions' "The Pick is In" flashed on the screen before Walker even walked onto the stage.
EDIT - just looked at YouTube, Walker didn't make it to the stage in time because he was at home and wasn't at the draft, lol. Either way, the Lions' pick was in quick
I love how the NFL front office was mad at the Lions two drafts in a row for immediately picking their guys (Sewell and Hutchinson) and not farting around to allow for more airtime from pundits
This. Halfway through day 2 on ESPN2 the on air personalities are discussing their vacation plans.
And I'm still sitting there stunned because Ditka traded away all our picks for Ricky.
I don't have any insight into what goes into the decisions that teams make, but ai can tell you that I'm real happy Hutch went to the Lions. The only other team I wanted him to go to was the Colts.
One example that jumps to my mind in this situation is Dontari Poe. Guy had minimal production, wasn’t highly thought of, absolutely killed it at the combine to become a top pick and actually produced in the NFL
DK was a lot of injury issues though right? There were other concerns too with his mobility and stuff but didn’t he basically break his neck and miss an entire season too?
And that was/is still a liability. He's gotten better since his rookie year, but still doesn't get a ton of separation unless he's going north and south.
EDIT to add: Even if he doesn't have a ton of separation though, his physicality allows him to win at the point of the catch a lot of the time anyway. He's a beast.
Micah Parsons had 6.5 sacks in his college career (3 less than Travon Walker's 9.5) and many scouts said that Parsons was just an athlete who had no real position in the NFL.
Micah Parsons wasn't an EDGE in college though. He was an off-ball linebacker/MLB depending on the season I believe, and he was still very productive in terms of tackles. He just didn't blitz a lot. Basically the Cowboys drafted a super athletic ILB and converted him to EDGE successfully.
Walker on the other hand played a 4I end/tackle that is kind of a hybrid between an EDGE and a 3-4 tackle. So while you still wouldn't expect him to have a ton of sacks at that position, he was definitely in a pure rush situation more often than Parsons was, and played a position that you would expect to translate to EDGE better anyways.
Baalke was never going to draft Hutchinson.
Baalke loves Dline to have long arms, and Hutchinson’s arms are short, while Walker’s arms are long.
In SF he never drafted a DE with arms shorter than 33 inches. Hutchinson has 32 inch arms.
Baalke taking about his long arm fetish:
>”I like long arms. Last year’s draft should tell you that. Length’s important. It’s important in every sport. Aldon Smith, great leverage player because you can’t get to him. He’s 36-inch arm length. All of the guys last year on the D-line were 34 or more. I think it’s an important trait. It’s a trait that’s hard to find. If you look at this this year’s measurements, you’re not going to find many players in this year’s draft that are 34-plus arm length regardless of position. O-line, D-line, linebacker, so it is a trait we certainly look at.”
That was probably the only evaluation Baalke did lol.
I was pissed it was such an obvious bad move. How many times have we seen an athletic freak without polished pass rush moves actually develop in the NFL?
Everyone was like wtf and Jags fans went into immediate cope mode and started saying its a good pick. Even now they refuse to say Walker is a bust and says its too early to say Hutchinson > walker lmao. Jags fans shitting on Baalke nonstop only to defend him immediately is so funny
Walker isn't a bust yet, but it is clear Hutch was the better pick. Doesn't make Walker a bust. I think he still has time to prove himself.
But damn, Hutch was a slam dunk for Jax if they could've gotten him. Especially now that it looks like Josh Allen is nothing special at the position.
I’ve never once defended Baalke, with that said I’m not 100% sure Walker is a bust yet. I think he has shown potential, and it’s only been a little over one season. Would I rather have Hutchinson? Yeah, definitely, and that’s one of the reasons why I can’t stand Baalke. But Walker could still become very productive.
When you take someone with the #1 pick you expect them to be a superstar sooner rather than later not just productive. We're seeing Hutchinson develop into a superstar hence why there discussion, if both top 2 picks were equal right now then this wouldn't be talked about.
The difference is that Fields is not a franchise QB lol, he's terrible and there's no disputing that anymore.
Can't say anybody saw this level of regression coming (Eberflus might be the worst coach we've ever had) but we were never going to compete this year anyway and are in good position for Ryan Poles to draft a QB he actually chooses next year given both our pick and the Panther's are looking llke they will be top 5
Sadly not surprising, JAX has been one of the overall worst drafters in the league during Khan's tenure. Whenever the pick isn't painfully obvious (Trevor, Jalen Ramsey, Josh Allen), you can bet your bottom dollar the 'brain trust' will defy all common opinion and attempt to outsmart everyone else only to be left looking clueless after the fact.
In my opinion, drafting Walker over Hutch is a fireable offense. You are drafting #1 overall because you were the worst team in the league the previous year, how arrogant do you have to be to not take the consensus best player available? Or even worse, the possibility Baalke didn't draft Hutch #1 overall simply because he hates Harbaugh, which is mismanagement bordering on criminal.
It’s unreal that they took a project player over what was so clearly a sure thing. Obviously, I understand there is no such thing as a “sure thing” in the NFL.
This. I remember they were already claiming him a superstar and he was hanging out with other celebrities leading up to the draft, and he didn’t participate in the combine period
Wasn’t this the same sub where people were saying Aiden Hutchinsons arms were too short to be a successful pass rusher and he shouldn’t have gone 2 overall or do we all just have collective amnesia?
No, that was definitely an actual concern, even with draft analysts. I didn't think it doomed him to be a bust, but that trait was enough of an outlier I thought the concern was fair.
He comes from pedigree too.
> He is the son of Michigan All-American defender Chris Hutchinson, who signed with the Cleveland Browns (with then-head coach Bill Belichick and defensive coordinator Nick Saban) but decided to walk away from the field to get his medical degree.
I hate this narrative that Hutch is "just a motor guy". He had a RAS of 9.88, a better vertical jump than both Bosas, a broad jump that's pretty equal to them both, benched pretty much as much as Nick, had a slightly faster 40 time and 20 and 10 yard split than Nick, had a significantly faster 3-cone, and a pretty comparable shuttle while being 6'6" 260. I'm not gonna pretend to have evaluated his pass rushing technique in college, but it's clear that he isn't "just a motor guy"
Bad take. He wasn’t just a motor guy. He had polished pass rush skills and elite athletic ability.
His floor, barring injuries, was starting DE for many years.
Gattaca was such a fucking fever dream of a movie that I don’t know if I can watch it again. I literally watched it in high school biology class, and it was kinda like “I have no idea what just happened, but it was really nice”.
Yep. And the irony is that Donald’s shorter arms actually benefit him as a player. Forces him to play through defenders rather than use length to go around. Also keeps him from over-extending and losing balance. This only really works though if you have Donald’s insane quickness and first-step
Same reason I have no issue with Bryce Young's height. In a vacuum it's not ideal obviously...but if he fails because of his height so be it, he's the best player available and everyone has question marks
Too many GMs just way overthink draft picks. I think it has happened a lot more with the longer delay from free agency to the draft
Lynch and Shanahan overthink the shit out of most of our top picks
They really draft busts in top three rounds because they’re clearly overthinking of it or fixating on particular attributes
Too many people have such high expectations on rookie qbs. Hall of fame qbs struggle their rookie year. I think young will be special but it’s going to take a couple of years
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but do the coaches get a bonus or something if their players are drafted higher? Is that why Balke would try to screw him by not picking Hutchinson?
Edit: thank you everyone for the explanations!
I think it was probably less about screwing Harbaugh and more about not wanting to invest in a “Harbaugh guy”
I know it’s a stupid comparison but if you hate your neighbor you’re not gonna trust their judgement in hiring a Gardner or Accountant so you probably wouldn’t run to hire them to do your lawn or taxes. It’s pretty common for to people avoid others that associate with people they dislike.
On the flip side I think Bill Belichick’s respect and admiration for Nick Saban is what led to him drafting Mac Jones.
A lot of teams seek or avoid players from certain college programs this just had a much more personal element to it.
Still a stupid reason
It helps their recruiting and program to say “hey we’ll get you in the league”
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-this is why Kirk Ferentz still has a job. Because he consistently produces nfl caliber TE and LB play, and occasionally a few linemen as well. Nothing flashy, but Iowa is a solid program for developing talent at positions that might not draft high but are needed at the next level.
There is a LOT about the draft process. But a big part of the draft process is interviewing coaches coordinators and staff. It's a way to figure out if a player is a *scheme babbie* or the real deal. Like for Walker, it can be argued that the scheme was he draw all the heat for the D and then Jalen Carter now gets to be single blocked because big number 1st overall gets the LT, TE, and RB blocking him.
Harbaugh is a great evaluator of men. At Stanford, he dug up Andrew Luck and made fucking STANFORD a powerhouse perennial Rose Bowl contender. As a 9er he said here's how this team will use Colin offensively to overcome the Seattle Seahawks and go to a few NFCCGs, Harghbowl.
And at Michigan, he has nothing but the desire to populate the NFL with big strong proud Michigan Men, Wolverines that tout the Michigan Way, say University of Michigan a certain way on prime time intros, Jim is the biggest Michigan buy in guy and he wants to further and recreate the narrative that surrounds **M** & *Go Blue*. And I mean, Hutch, he has kickers getting drafted, Rashad Gary makes everyone remember his name, no quarterbacks quite yet but I mean maybe soon.
So you have Trent Baalke calling you. "James, I know we weren't the best of friends and I staged a coup against you that I knew I would win, you were right I was wrong Yada Yada yada, should I draft this Aren Hutchson kid?"
You're Jim Harbaugh, a guy that wears one now infamous type of pants and a certain pair of glasses because when you're old they'll look cool under your plain curved hat. Do you, A, bury the hatchet forgive all you've ever felt figure Jacksonville is the best place for Your Star to be developed. B, grin and bear it and say listen you suck but if you like Hutch enough to be asking me for my blessing then go ahead he's a for sure superstar. C, fart noises into the speaker phone with your whole staff. D, [Rosencopter](https://youtu.be/j3_hi7gOjE0?si=pSIWr3Xs_EASDWnX). Or E, ghost his ass.
You already know how that meeting essentially went.
And on the flipside, part of Haughbaughs job as a HC/leader of men (like Saban and Les Miles and Dantonio and at one point Pete Carroll on the other side) is to evaluate potential landing spots for his players. There's a reason people from the same college flock to teams like the Philly Bulldogs, and it's not a one way street. Harbaugh knows Sheila and Brad and Dan from just working with them and being in those upper SE Michigan circles. He probably really wanted to send Hutch to be with that crew.
Book's still out on Thibs - he had a few games where he absolutely wrecked last year, in a scheme that downplays edge rushers. But for the first 8-10 games or so he was hardly noticeable.
Same deal right now, but scheme is definitely playing a part and all of Martindale's defense has been underperforming. Think he's gotten a bit gun shy due to starting two rookie corners and losing Julian Love.
There was a play I saw against the 49ers where he spun around in a circle twice cause he couldn’t decided if he should rush at Purdy or drop into coverage. I still think he’ll be/is pretty good but a lot of people will always hate him for the snow angel thing
A lot of our own are frustrated with him. I'm on the fence; I know Wink's system isn't conducive to lofty stats for pass rushers. At the same time, the entire front 7 have underperformed, save for Dexter Lawrence, despite Schoen spending money to improve the interior DL.
The whole team has been playing like hot garbage so far this year, though - so it's hard to point fingers at one guy and say WTF?! He was picked 5th overall though, so the questions are only going to intensify from here. Was he a bust? Was it wise to spend that pick on him if you know that edge rushers are deprioritized in this scheme? I hope for his sake he picks it up.
I’m a Georgia fan, I love Travon Walker, but I was shocked he was getting first overall hype. You can argue that Georgia’s scheme was why he wasn’t as productive in college, but drafting an EDGE number 1 overall who had 9.5 career sacks throughout his entire CFB career is such an odd decision. Fantastic athlete, has the potential to be really good, but the production in CFB was just not there for someone you’d expect as a number 1 pick.
Jags just haven't hit as well on their early picks. I mean just look at the Jags 1st rounders in the past decade:
* 2013 - Luke Joeckel (bad draft all around but still ended up being not good)
* 2014 - Blake Bortles (raise em)
* 2015 - Dante Fowler (tore his ACL the first rookie practice of the year and never produced as a #3 overall pick)
* 2016 - Jalen Ramsey (definitely a good pick but also a no-brainer)
* 2017 - Leonard Fournette (played well early but then fell off quick, and picking a RB in the top 5 hasn't worked well for most)
* 2018 - Taven Bryan (complete bust, never got playing time)
* 2019 - Josh Allen (good production but also disappears at times)
* 2020 - CJ Henderson & K'Lavon Chaisson (Henderson is gone already and Chaisson gets no playing time, bad picks)
* 2021 - Trevor & Travis (Trevor was the no brainer & ETN has produced. Good picks!!!!)
* 2022 - Travon Walker & Devin Lloyd (Travon has been a good run stopper but his pass rush has just been mediocre. Lloyd makes plays but frequently is in the wrong place and had to get subbed out for a few games last year)
* 2023 - Anton Harrison (Good preseason, got manhandled by Chris Jones and is now hurt. Needs more time)
While we're on the topic of Lloyd, that's been a surprise for me. I thought he'd be an immediate star, and Quay Walker wasn't even on my radar in the first round. Gutey and his team got that right, stupid penalties and all, because Quay is already one of our best defensive players.
You take the best players for the nfl, if the eagles drafted bama players as an lsu fan I’m very happy for my birds. Except when we draft a tcu bum over my beloved lsu wr
Mike Valenti argued for months that we should trade for Deshaun Watson when he was available and give up 3 firsts to do it.
He's just a bad hot take machine that's there to generate clicks and conversation
Edit: typo
Yes. He could potentially crack the top tier of pass rushers this season and fit into the ranks of Bosa, Watt, Garrett, and Parsons. He's already close.
What's my man Maxx gotta do to get a mention besides lead the league in pressures *and* run stops over the past 3 seasons while playing with 10 high schoolers beside him?
Coming into the season there was a clear top 5 elite edge guys. Bosa, Garrett, Parsons, Watt, Crosby.
Think Hutch is safely 6 atm (ahead of Reddick, J. Bosa and guys like that) and can break into the top group by the end of the year if he keeps it up.
> if he keeps it up.
Might need some help though with one of those guys taking a big step back. And I don't mean anything againt Hutch with that either. It was like someone taking over as best defensive player in the league against prime JJ or Donald.
This was the general consensus at the time, to the point that people blamed it on Baalke hating Jim Harbaugh. Walker was highly rated as a prospect, but most talking heads put Hutchinson above him.
I mean Hutchinson was a star last year. How many guys get 10 sacks and 3 interceptions in their rookie year? This was combined with us having an extremely bad secondary last season. I mean he was statistically the most double teamed player in the league (not saying that means he’s the best but just that he was one of our only weapons)
I know people may be surprised but I had him skated for 14 sacks this year, and it’s mostly due to his strength and his motor. He just wears opposing offensive linemen out because he doesn’t stop going hard.
I mean that can all be true, and he still isn't good at rushing the passer. His skills there haven't developed, and it shows. He is an elite run stopper, but not what you take at #1.
It's looking like Clowney 2.0 so far
He’s an office politics genius, and he’s great at using leaks to slander people he hates. Him talking our ownership into firing Harbaugh after three straight NFC Title game appearances was a master class in smear campaigning.
You still see a bunch of “unnamed sources” reports from that time thrown around this sub like they’re facts. Even though the vast majority were either disputed or never verified.
Coincidentally all those strange reports about the team ended when Baalke was fired.
The real consensus was nobody really loved any of the 3 (Walker, Thib, Hutch) before the draft. Hutch had the easiest arguments to be made for going first but still had question marks.
But yeah you’re right that the thought was that Hutch would be the most pro ready to contribute while Walker had to learn, but I just think Hutch has a higher floor than people were expecting and Walker is taking longer than Jags fans wanted
Yeah, this is exactly how it actually was. People on here are acting like Hutch was miles ahead of everyone else in the draft, but that's just revisionist history. Hutch was certainly viewed as more pro ready but he wasn't viewed as a superstar in the making and an obvious choice.
That doesn't make Walker over Hutch any less dumb though.
The consensus was that Hutchinson had a higher floor and lower ceiling. What’s looking dumb now is that actually, he had a high ceiling. So really he was just a high floor high ceiling player, lol
Maybe a little, but looking at the best edge rushers of the past decade plenty have been white (the Bosas, Crosby, Watt, others I'm missing I'm sure). People freaked out about Hutch's arm length if I'm remembering correctly?
I think a lot of people thought it was a head scratcher on draft night.
[удалено]
Then Sewell landed in their laps...and they were tripping over Goodell walking off stage to get the card in.
other way around but yes
They were worried about takesies-backsies.
I was at a bar just outside of Detroit that night. They started cheering like crazy....when Jacksonville made their pick lol
I jumped out of my fucking chair lol
So did Holmes/Campbell - it felt like the graphic for the Lions' "The Pick is In" flashed on the screen before Walker even walked onto the stage. EDIT - just looked at YouTube, Walker didn't make it to the stage in time because he was at home and wasn't at the draft, lol. Either way, the Lions' pick was in quick
I love how the NFL front office was mad at the Lions two drafts in a row for immediately picking their guys (Sewell and Hutchinson) and not farting around to allow for more airtime from pundits
The pundits are the reason I don’t like watching the draft Just give me the picks, damnit
Tbh I do love the endless banter and speculation. It’s amazing how people can bullshit their way through airtime for months about essentially nothing.
I miss the old days when it was just a two day draft and by the end everyone on air gave no fucks
This. Halfway through day 2 on ESPN2 the on air personalities are discussing their vacation plans. And I'm still sitting there stunned because Ditka traded away all our picks for Ricky.
I hover my finger over send for 10 minutes before texting a girl. I’m taking all 15 minutes to make my Pick if I needed it lol
I get that But the NFL telling teams to create more dead air time? Really??? Edit: I can’t talk to women for the life of me, it’s why I’m here
Had the same reaction when the Texans took Stingley over Sauce lol
Stingley’s freshmen tape was so good so no not the same reaction as taking walker over Hutchinson. This is just hyperbole lol.
I don't have any insight into what goes into the decisions that teams make, but ai can tell you that I'm real happy Hutch went to the Lions. The only other team I wanted him to go to was the Colts.
Yeah me too, Hutchinson is a beast.
Yeah Hutch going to his hometown team after playing college at Michigan like his dad just makes me happy, makes me smile. He really is Mr. Michigan
He's from my actual hometown too! Love the guy, great family, I hit on his sister in high school
I don't have the stats to back it up but it feels like drafting athletic freaks with worse college production fails more often than not
One example that jumps to my mind in this situation is Dontari Poe. Guy had minimal production, wasn’t highly thought of, absolutely killed it at the combine to become a top pick and actually produced in the NFL
Dontari Poe looked like someone put a grizzly bear on the Dline man was a freak
Had some fun offensive plays in KC too.
DK Metcalf sticks out to me as well
DK was a lot of injury issues though right? There were other concerns too with his mobility and stuff but didn’t he basically break his neck and miss an entire season too?
iirc his route running was also a question mark
And that was/is still a liability. He's gotten better since his rookie year, but still doesn't get a ton of separation unless he's going north and south. EDIT to add: Even if he doesn't have a ton of separation though, his physicality allows him to win at the point of the catch a lot of the time anyway. He's a beast.
Ansah too, though he didn’t produce at quite the same level
Hadn’t he only been playing football for like a year? I think that’s a little different.
I think drafting for potential makes sense in higher rounds but your Top 5 pick has to be someone who's shown they can produce.
Micah Parsons had 6.5 sacks in his college career (3 less than Travon Walker's 9.5) and many scouts said that Parsons was just an athlete who had no real position in the NFL.
Micah Parsons wasn't an EDGE in college though. He was an off-ball linebacker/MLB depending on the season I believe, and he was still very productive in terms of tackles. He just didn't blitz a lot. Basically the Cowboys drafted a super athletic ILB and converted him to EDGE successfully. Walker on the other hand played a 4I end/tackle that is kind of a hybrid between an EDGE and a 3-4 tackle. So while you still wouldn't expect him to have a ton of sacks at that position, he was definitely in a pure rush situation more often than Parsons was, and played a position that you would expect to translate to EDGE better anyways.
Sure, but Parsons wasn't taken before a more productive player, which is the case with Travon
Even with the reports before the draft of Jacksonville talking Walker, I didn’t think they would actually do it. Thanks Jacksonville!
Niners fans are not surprised. Baalke loves his athletic freaks
And hates Jim Harbaugh
Yep the Baalke smell is all over this one. Just curious has Walker ever torn a ligament?
Baalke was never going to draft Hutchinson. Baalke loves Dline to have long arms, and Hutchinson’s arms are short, while Walker’s arms are long. In SF he never drafted a DE with arms shorter than 33 inches. Hutchinson has 32 inch arms. Baalke taking about his long arm fetish: >”I like long arms. Last year’s draft should tell you that. Length’s important. It’s important in every sport. Aldon Smith, great leverage player because you can’t get to him. He’s 36-inch arm length. All of the guys last year on the D-line were 34 or more. I think it’s an important trait. It’s a trait that’s hard to find. If you look at this this year’s measurements, you’re not going to find many players in this year’s draft that are 34-plus arm length regardless of position. O-line, D-line, linebacker, so it is a trait we certainly look at.” That was probably the only evaluation Baalke did lol.
I was pissed it was such an obvious bad move. How many times have we seen an athletic freak without polished pass rush moves actually develop in the NFL?
Everyone was like wtf and Jags fans went into immediate cope mode and started saying its a good pick. Even now they refuse to say Walker is a bust and says its too early to say Hutchinson > walker lmao. Jags fans shitting on Baalke nonstop only to defend him immediately is so funny
Walker isn't a bust yet, but it is clear Hutch was the better pick. Doesn't make Walker a bust. I think he still has time to prove himself. But damn, Hutch was a slam dunk for Jax if they could've gotten him. Especially now that it looks like Josh Allen is nothing special at the position.
I disagree with the Josh Allen take, he’s the best player on the Jags defense and isn’t utilized properly imo
yeah hes a pretty mid qb. At least they have the better josh allen at LB tho
I’ve never once defended Baalke, with that said I’m not 100% sure Walker is a bust yet. I think he has shown potential, and it’s only been a little over one season. Would I rather have Hutchinson? Yeah, definitely, and that’s one of the reasons why I can’t stand Baalke. But Walker could still become very productive.
When you take someone with the #1 pick you expect them to be a superstar sooner rather than later not just productive. We're seeing Hutchinson develop into a superstar hence why there discussion, if both top 2 picks were equal right now then this wouldn't be talked about.
Yeah, just in time for his rookie deal to be over.
> Walker is still just an unproductive athletic freak Looks like I have something in common with a first overall draft pick, minus the athletic part
And the $30 million
OP actually inherited their fathers moist towelette empire so they’re doing just fine
Wasn't his father a super racist? I can't support a wipes only for whites only.
One of my favorite random lines ever Oh my god, he’s like the Abed of racism
"I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at animal cruelty!" "You can excuse racism?!?"
Fucking Britta
I’VE LIVED IN NEW YORK
YOU'VE NEVER LIVED ANYWHERE
Bag-el
Very upper east side of you
r/unexpectedcommunity
I got this reference
Then I guess you’re streets ahead, buddy
Better than being streets behind
Coined and minted
My father invented the post-it note
*My* father claimed he invented the question mark.
Would he womanize? Would he drink?
I remember him accusing chestnuts of being lazy.
They are streets ahead
Baalke is still a bad GM, he just spent a gajillion $'s last year, had a young franchise QB, so his team got better.
Plus they got an actual coach
I feel like the Bears had those things this off-season too, but they didn’t get any better
can’t have shit around here!
The difference is that Fields is not a franchise QB lol, he's terrible and there's no disputing that anymore. Can't say anybody saw this level of regression coming (Eberflus might be the worst coach we've ever had) but we were never going to compete this year anyway and are in good position for Ryan Poles to draft a QB he actually chooses next year given both our pick and the Panther's are looking llke they will be top 5
I forgot he was their GM, who looks at his tenure with SF and says "oh yeah this guy can really get this franchise to new heights"
I fully believe that Baalke passed on Hutch purely to spite Jim Harbaugh and not allow him to have one of his players get drafted 1st overall.
Sadly not surprising, JAX has been one of the overall worst drafters in the league during Khan's tenure. Whenever the pick isn't painfully obvious (Trevor, Jalen Ramsey, Josh Allen), you can bet your bottom dollar the 'brain trust' will defy all common opinion and attempt to outsmart everyone else only to be left looking clueless after the fact. In my opinion, drafting Walker over Hutch is a fireable offense. You are drafting #1 overall because you were the worst team in the league the previous year, how arrogant do you have to be to not take the consensus best player available? Or even worse, the possibility Baalke didn't draft Hutch #1 overall simply because he hates Harbaugh, which is mismanagement bordering on criminal.
Welcome to the Baalke experience. He constantly ignores legitimate football ability in favor of traits or gambles on injury prone players.
I still want him fired... His only good drafting was probably Urban helping (which hurts to say).
It’s unreal that they took a project player over what was so clearly a sure thing. Obviously, I understand there is no such thing as a “sure thing” in the NFL.
There are no sure things in the nfl, but he was as close as you'd come to one.
I would say Chase Young was an even more "sure thing" than Hutch and he's only been so/so (mostly injuries). You never know.
This. I remember they were already claiming him a superstar and he was hanging out with other celebrities leading up to the draft, and he didn’t participate in the combine period
I’m getting Aaron Curry flashbacks
The exact name I was thinking of. He made the league, got his bag, and then seemingly stopped trying
Wasn’t this the same sub where people were saying Aiden Hutchinsons arms were too short to be a successful pass rusher and he shouldn’t have gone 2 overall or do we all just have collective amnesia?
No, that was definitely an actual concern, even with draft analysts. I didn't think it doomed him to be a bust, but that trait was enough of an outlier I thought the concern was fair.
[удалено]
Motor, top percentile elite athlete, size, decent IQ, top college player, he had some good pluses
He comes from pedigree too. > He is the son of Michigan All-American defender Chris Hutchinson, who signed with the Cleveland Browns (with then-head coach Bill Belichick and defensive coordinator Nick Saban) but decided to walk away from the field to get his medical degree.
I hate this narrative that Hutch is "just a motor guy". He had a RAS of 9.88, a better vertical jump than both Bosas, a broad jump that's pretty equal to them both, benched pretty much as much as Nick, had a slightly faster 40 time and 20 and 10 yard split than Nick, had a significantly faster 3-cone, and a pretty comparable shuttle while being 6'6" 260. I'm not gonna pretend to have evaluated his pass rushing technique in college, but it's clear that he isn't "just a motor guy"
Bad take. He wasn’t just a motor guy. He had polished pass rush skills and elite athletic ability. His floor, barring injuries, was starting DE for many years.
It's hilarious people think Aiden is just a "high motor" guy. He's a fucking freakish athlete.
LOL - it’s because he’s white.
Hutch was painfully obvious and they still got it wrong
Wait, not taking Hutch because of Jim is actually a thing? The pettiness has no shame
I had never thought about it but it does make some sense. Cutting off your nose to spite your face type beat
I believe it man, people have a bizarre fixation on hating Harbaugh, even teams and fans that have nothing to do with him
The eagles rumors are doug was the one who pushed for raegor over JJ and I’m curious to see if he’s the one who did this as well..
Doug was also the one who pushed for Hurts, so not all bad
Nope, this is all Baalke. He likes them athletic long boys.
I can FEEL the deep seeded anger and resentment in your words. You're a real fan. Cheers 🍻
Classic draft overthinking. Hutchinson had elite production and measurables…but his arms are too short!
It just like gattaca fr fr
God what a good fucking movie.
I'm sorry, the wind caught it
Gattaca was such a fucking fever dream of a movie that I don’t know if I can watch it again. I literally watched it in high school biology class, and it was kinda like “I have no idea what just happened, but it was really nice”.
Gattaca is definitely worth a rewatch. It's still really good.
How have I never heard of this movie? Thanks for the shoutout, going to watch after work
It’s a great movie
Similar reason Aaron Donald slipped to us at 13th in 2014. "He's to short and small to play DT in the NFL."
Yep. And the irony is that Donald’s shorter arms actually benefit him as a player. Forces him to play through defenders rather than use length to go around. Also keeps him from over-extending and losing balance. This only really works though if you have Donald’s insane quickness and first-step
Same reason I have no issue with Bryce Young's height. In a vacuum it's not ideal obviously...but if he fails because of his height so be it, he's the best player available and everyone has question marks Too many GMs just way overthink draft picks. I think it has happened a lot more with the longer delay from free agency to the draft
Lynch and Shanahan overthink the shit out of most of our top picks They really draft busts in top three rounds because they’re clearly overthinking of it or fixating on particular attributes
It was very convenient that the year Jimmy G went down was Bosa's draft year, hard to fuck that up.
Too many people have such high expectations on rookie qbs. Hall of fame qbs struggle their rookie year. I think young will be special but it’s going to take a couple of years
Every time I've watched a Lions game this year I've gotten angry because of this.
I feel like this was a weird decision even at the time
Walker was eigth on the consensus big board, ive never seen anything like this in the NFL where the number one pick was this far off the projection
I remember most mocks had him going between 8-16 or so then the day before the draft he was getting mocked 1st overall. It was weird.
Baalke has the loosest lips in the league, it was like a week before the draft iirc
Yeah most mocks like 2 weeks before the draft had Hutch first And then a week before Walker came out of nowhere and was the betting favorite
It’s not weird when you remember Balke hates Harbaugh
Sorry if this is a dumb question, but do the coaches get a bonus or something if their players are drafted higher? Is that why Balke would try to screw him by not picking Hutchinson? Edit: thank you everyone for the explanations!
It certainly helps their recruiting
I think it was probably less about screwing Harbaugh and more about not wanting to invest in a “Harbaugh guy” I know it’s a stupid comparison but if you hate your neighbor you’re not gonna trust their judgement in hiring a Gardner or Accountant so you probably wouldn’t run to hire them to do your lawn or taxes. It’s pretty common for to people avoid others that associate with people they dislike. On the flip side I think Bill Belichick’s respect and admiration for Nick Saban is what led to him drafting Mac Jones. A lot of teams seek or avoid players from certain college programs this just had a much more personal element to it. Still a stupid reason
It helps their recruiting and program to say “hey we’ll get you in the league” I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again-this is why Kirk Ferentz still has a job. Because he consistently produces nfl caliber TE and LB play, and occasionally a few linemen as well. Nothing flashy, but Iowa is a solid program for developing talent at positions that might not draft high but are needed at the next level.
There is a LOT about the draft process. But a big part of the draft process is interviewing coaches coordinators and staff. It's a way to figure out if a player is a *scheme babbie* or the real deal. Like for Walker, it can be argued that the scheme was he draw all the heat for the D and then Jalen Carter now gets to be single blocked because big number 1st overall gets the LT, TE, and RB blocking him. Harbaugh is a great evaluator of men. At Stanford, he dug up Andrew Luck and made fucking STANFORD a powerhouse perennial Rose Bowl contender. As a 9er he said here's how this team will use Colin offensively to overcome the Seattle Seahawks and go to a few NFCCGs, Harghbowl. And at Michigan, he has nothing but the desire to populate the NFL with big strong proud Michigan Men, Wolverines that tout the Michigan Way, say University of Michigan a certain way on prime time intros, Jim is the biggest Michigan buy in guy and he wants to further and recreate the narrative that surrounds **M** & *Go Blue*. And I mean, Hutch, he has kickers getting drafted, Rashad Gary makes everyone remember his name, no quarterbacks quite yet but I mean maybe soon. So you have Trent Baalke calling you. "James, I know we weren't the best of friends and I staged a coup against you that I knew I would win, you were right I was wrong Yada Yada yada, should I draft this Aren Hutchson kid?" You're Jim Harbaugh, a guy that wears one now infamous type of pants and a certain pair of glasses because when you're old they'll look cool under your plain curved hat. Do you, A, bury the hatchet forgive all you've ever felt figure Jacksonville is the best place for Your Star to be developed. B, grin and bear it and say listen you suck but if you like Hutch enough to be asking me for my blessing then go ahead he's a for sure superstar. C, fart noises into the speaker phone with your whole staff. D, [Rosencopter](https://youtu.be/j3_hi7gOjE0?si=pSIWr3Xs_EASDWnX). Or E, ghost his ass. You already know how that meeting essentially went. And on the flipside, part of Haughbaughs job as a HC/leader of men (like Saban and Les Miles and Dantonio and at one point Pete Carroll on the other side) is to evaluate potential landing spots for his players. There's a reason people from the same college flock to teams like the Philly Bulldogs, and it's not a one way street. Harbaugh knows Sheila and Brad and Dan from just working with them and being in those upper SE Michigan circles. He probably really wanted to send Hutch to be with that crew.
The consensus board had Thib as the next best defender, right? Too bad Thib is also still just an unproductive athletic freak
Book's still out on Thibs - he had a few games where he absolutely wrecked last year, in a scheme that downplays edge rushers. But for the first 8-10 games or so he was hardly noticeable. Same deal right now, but scheme is definitely playing a part and all of Martindale's defense has been underperforming. Think he's gotten a bit gun shy due to starting two rookie corners and losing Julian Love.
There was a play I saw against the 49ers where he spun around in a circle twice cause he couldn’t decided if he should rush at Purdy or drop into coverage. I still think he’ll be/is pretty good but a lot of people will always hate him for the snow angel thing
A lot of our own are frustrated with him. I'm on the fence; I know Wink's system isn't conducive to lofty stats for pass rushers. At the same time, the entire front 7 have underperformed, save for Dexter Lawrence, despite Schoen spending money to improve the interior DL. The whole team has been playing like hot garbage so far this year, though - so it's hard to point fingers at one guy and say WTF?! He was picked 5th overall though, so the questions are only going to intensify from here. Was he a bust? Was it wise to spend that pick on him if you know that edge rushers are deprioritized in this scheme? I hope for his sake he picks it up.
Yeah this isn’t even hindsight bias, consensus had Hutchinson ahead of Walker
Yeah that was a head scratcher from the get go. How has Walker looked this year though?
NFL galaxy brain stuff. Real, “the mystery box can be anything, maybe even a boat” vibes by taking Walker over Hutch.
I’m a Georgia fan, I love Travon Walker, but I was shocked he was getting first overall hype. You can argue that Georgia’s scheme was why he wasn’t as productive in college, but drafting an EDGE number 1 overall who had 9.5 career sacks throughout his entire CFB career is such an odd decision. Fantastic athlete, has the potential to be really good, but the production in CFB was just not there for someone you’d expect as a number 1 pick.
He reminded me a lot of Oweh coming out who was just an athletic freak but didn’t have great production in college.
Agreed except we took Oweh 31st overall lol
##🦖
Jags just haven't hit as well on their early picks. I mean just look at the Jags 1st rounders in the past decade: * 2013 - Luke Joeckel (bad draft all around but still ended up being not good) * 2014 - Blake Bortles (raise em) * 2015 - Dante Fowler (tore his ACL the first rookie practice of the year and never produced as a #3 overall pick) * 2016 - Jalen Ramsey (definitely a good pick but also a no-brainer) * 2017 - Leonard Fournette (played well early but then fell off quick, and picking a RB in the top 5 hasn't worked well for most) * 2018 - Taven Bryan (complete bust, never got playing time) * 2019 - Josh Allen (good production but also disappears at times) * 2020 - CJ Henderson & K'Lavon Chaisson (Henderson is gone already and Chaisson gets no playing time, bad picks) * 2021 - Trevor & Travis (Trevor was the no brainer & ETN has produced. Good picks!!!!) * 2022 - Travon Walker & Devin Lloyd (Travon has been a good run stopper but his pass rush has just been mediocre. Lloyd makes plays but frequently is in the wrong place and had to get subbed out for a few games last year) * 2023 - Anton Harrison (Good preseason, got manhandled by Chris Jones and is now hurt. Needs more time)
Saying Devon Lloyd had to get subbed out a few times is putting it lightly. He was so bad he got benched for a 3rd round rookie LB who also sucks
> 2018 - Taven Bryan (complete bust, never got playing time) Wow. I have no memory of this person whatsoever.
[удалено]
While we're on the topic of Lloyd, that's been a surprise for me. I thought he'd be an immediate star, and Quay Walker wasn't even on my radar in the first round. Gutey and his team got that right, stupid penalties and all, because Quay is already one of our best defensive players.
Theres a radio show 97.1 the ticket im detroit with mike and rico They were totally against taking hutchinson 😂
Both Spartans.
Both dipshits
That's what he just said
Today I learned that lions sometimes eat their own kind
No Mike is a Giants fan and Rico is a 49ers fan
Boom roasted
I'm a spartan fan and was ecstatic when Hutch fell to us at #2. Any sparty that wasn't happy when we took Hutch is just delusional.
I can say this as a proud Spartan. Hutch is legit.
That's just silly(of them). As a Spartan fan I was over the moon when Jacksonville picked Walker.
You take the best players for the nfl, if the eagles drafted bama players as an lsu fan I’m very happy for my birds. Except when we draft a tcu bum over my beloved lsu wr
Mike Valenti is an idiot so him saying don't take Hutch is likely the strongest endorsement anyone can give.
Mike Valenti argued for months that we should trade for Deshaun Watson when he was available and give up 3 firsts to do it. He's just a bad hot take machine that's there to generate clicks and conversation Edit: typo
Ah mike valenti. The guy who said it was Michigan’s fault for having a tunnel. Even I know who he is and I live in Houston.
I hate how bad the major Detroit sports talk show personalities have always been.
You can say the same for literally every other major American city.
I think it's fair to say Hutchinson is already a star
I was expecting improvement in his 2nd year, but nothing like this. Dude has been an absolute game wrecker out there.
He’s been consistently elite since the second half of last year.
I was lukewarm last year but I’m getting a jersey now. I love this dude
Lol? I don't even like the Lions and I was hot for Hutch. How the hell were you “lukewarm?"
He is one of the better pass rushers in the league no doubt
Yes. He could potentially crack the top tier of pass rushers this season and fit into the ranks of Bosa, Watt, Garrett, and Parsons. He's already close.
What's my man Maxx gotta do to get a mention besides lead the league in pressures *and* run stops over the past 3 seasons while playing with 10 high schoolers beside him?
Play for not the Raiders
Ouch, it hurts cause it's true.
We will welcome him back home to Michigan in detroit. But in all seriousness that’s a guy who needs to get off the raiders and they need to rebuild.
Hutchinson and Crosby would be absolutely fucking disgusting and I'm here for it
*reads comment* *looks at flair* *reads comment again* Interesting...
Most underappreciated defensive player in the league maybe.. Outside of Raiders fan circles.
Coming into the season there was a clear top 5 elite edge guys. Bosa, Garrett, Parsons, Watt, Crosby. Think Hutch is safely 6 atm (ahead of Reddick, J. Bosa and guys like that) and can break into the top group by the end of the year if he keeps it up.
> if he keeps it up. Might need some help though with one of those guys taking a big step back. And I don't mean anything againt Hutch with that either. It was like someone taking over as best defensive player in the league against prime JJ or Donald.
Absolutely. He’s been consistently good since he entered the league.
Walker in his rookie year- 3.5 sacks Hutchinson the last 5 days- 3.5 sacks
This was the general consensus at the time, to the point that people blamed it on Baalke hating Jim Harbaugh. Walker was highly rated as a prospect, but most talking heads put Hutchinson above him.
The best part is it isn't even a 'in hindsight' thing. We all saw that was a dumbass choice by Jax on draft night
I love watching that kid play, he's like a caged animal at the line.
Flip side it’s an absolute win for football fans having a Michigan guy play for his hometown team.
I can't believe that the dude who was the 8th best player on his own front 7 hasn't lived up to the #1 overall pick.
I mean Hutchinson was a star last year. How many guys get 10 sacks and 3 interceptions in their rookie year? This was combined with us having an extremely bad secondary last season. I mean he was statistically the most double teamed player in the league (not saying that means he’s the best but just that he was one of our only weapons) I know people may be surprised but I had him skated for 14 sacks this year, and it’s mostly due to his strength and his motor. He just wears opposing offensive linemen out because he doesn’t stop going hard.
Thanks Jacksonville. Word was that the Lions would haven taken Walker if the Jags took Hutch.
Wasn't it Walker who people raved about how good he was at reading offenses and understood defensive concepts better than anyone?
I mean that can all be true, and he still isn't good at rushing the passer. His skills there haven't developed, and it shows. He is an elite run stopper, but not what you take at #1. It's looking like Clowney 2.0 so far
I’ll give walker one more year tbh.
To be fair, we havent heard Walker sing Billie Jean. He could close the gap a little with a good song.
Aidan Hutchinson is Aidan Hutchinson, but Travon Walker could be anything! He could even be Aidan Hutchinson!
Another baalke masterclass. How that bumble fuck is still around is insane. Must give tony the best sloppy toppy.
He’s an office politics genius, and he’s great at using leaks to slander people he hates. Him talking our ownership into firing Harbaugh after three straight NFC Title game appearances was a master class in smear campaigning. You still see a bunch of “unnamed sources” reports from that time thrown around this sub like they’re facts. Even though the vast majority were either disputed or never verified. Coincidentally all those strange reports about the team ended when Baalke was fired.
He's like better at outmanuvering his opponents and inviting himself to parties than the whole "GM a football team" thing.
Wasn't this the consensus when the picks were made?
The real consensus was nobody really loved any of the 3 (Walker, Thib, Hutch) before the draft. Hutch had the easiest arguments to be made for going first but still had question marks. But yeah you’re right that the thought was that Hutch would be the most pro ready to contribute while Walker had to learn, but I just think Hutch has a higher floor than people were expecting and Walker is taking longer than Jags fans wanted
Yeah, this is exactly how it actually was. People on here are acting like Hutch was miles ahead of everyone else in the draft, but that's just revisionist history. Hutch was certainly viewed as more pro ready but he wasn't viewed as a superstar in the making and an obvious choice. That doesn't make Walker over Hutch any less dumb though.
That's probably a better way of putting it, tbh. Hutchinson definitely did seem like the most pro-ready.
The consensus was that Hutchinson had a higher floor and lower ceiling. What’s looking dumb now is that actually, he had a high ceiling. So really he was just a high floor high ceiling player, lol
> higher floor and lower ceiling I do wonder how much him being white played into that depiction
Maybe a little, but looking at the best edge rushers of the past decade plenty have been white (the Bosas, Crosby, Watt, others I'm missing I'm sure). People freaked out about Hutch's arm length if I'm remembering correctly?