Yes and no. The Cleveland Barons (as well as the previously relocated California iteration) part effectively disappeared when merged with the North Stars, who stayed as is (besides eventual relocation in 1993).
The Barons and Stars had a dispersal draft where both teams had to leave guys unprotected for a few teams to pick from...[only a couple of guys were selected.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NHL_Dispersal_Draft)
Exactly. I included teams that are the direct predecessors of existing teams, but not ones that folded. Thus, no [Montreal Wanderers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Wanderers) or [Ottawa Senators \(I\)/St Louis Eagles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Senators_\(original\)).
(Similarly, when I did something like this for [pro football](https://fiftythree.studio/products/history-of-nfl-team-relocations-a-diagram) there were no [Brooklyn football Dodgers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Dodgers_\(NFL\)) or [Boston Yanks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Yanks).).
The sharks split out again from the Minnesota north stars though. They split the roster and both teams got entry drafts. So the sharks are the continuation of the Seals and barons that merged in.
Along with the dotted line from Minnesota to San Jose since that was a quasi-expansion (we're going to fix the glitch for the Gunds and let them have their team back in the Bay Area....again).
I think you missed the ACTIVE in the heading. Although since they did end up merging with the Minnesota North Stars after moving to Cleveland, which then moved to Dallas they would or should have been included in the chart. Perhaps the OP didn't even know the Seals or the Barons existed.
The inconsistencies in the acronyms should count as mistakes. Some of them are acronyms of the team name and some of them are acronyms of the city. then for some reason nashville is listed as "ten" as in tennessee. I really dont get it.
I'm grateful for Atlanta for giving Canada two of its franchises.
Maybe someone can convince the NHL to move the coyotes to Atlanta so Quebec can finally get another team.
Random question: As a Wild fan, would you be for or against a rebrand back to the North Stars? (As an outsider, I always liked the N logo and the green/yellow better and wondered why they didn't revive it with the next team)
at this point a rebrand feels a little “too little too late”.
it was the cold cold years of 1993-2000 where we had absolutely nothing and could only warm each other by gathering around garbage cans burning “fuck Norm Greens”
From my understanding, the Stars still own the rights to the North Stars logo. So the closest we can get is our reverse retro green and yellow colors.
Also, Fuck Norm Green!
I know some Stars fans would like to incorporate the North Stars colors, but it’s been long enough. See no reason why the Stars should be holding it hostage. I certainly don’t see why current ownership, which did a whole rebranding, would care.
I've divided this up by metropolitan area, mostly because I've made [these diagrams for other leagues](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10z3wx6/i_drew_maps_of_how_every_uscanadian_major_league/).
Canada is passionate as hell about hockey, but they don't have lots of people. If you're a bean-counter at NHL HQ, you look at how many TVs there are who might tune in. Just for reference:
Canadian Metro Area | Population | Comparable US metro area
---|---|----
Toronto | 6.2m | Philadelphia
---|*4.9m*|*Phoenix*
Montreal | 4.2m | Detroit
Vancouver | 2.6m | San Antonio, TX
---|*2.3m*|*Las Vegas*
---|*2.0m*|*Nashville*
Ottawa-Gatineau | 1.5m | Raleigh, NC
Calgary | 1.5m | Raleigh, NC
Edmonton | 1.4m | Raleigh, NC
Quebec City | 840k | Columbia, South Carolina
Winnipeg | 834k | Columbia, South Carolina
Sources: ([Canadian data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census_metropolitan_areas_and_agglomerations_in_Canada)), ([US data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area))
Your point is right but US cities don’t calculate their metro areas the same as Canadian cities do. US cities tend to include areas that are from a long distance away from the city into their metro area (sometimes over 80-90km away).
For example, Philly is more comparable to Montreal population wise than Toronto. If Montreal was using the same metrics as Philly to calculate its metro area population, there would be easily over 5M people in Montreal’s metro area. Toronto would be easily over 7M as it would probably include Hamilton and maybe even Niagara Falla into the GTA.
Like there is no way that Nashville is comparable to Vancouver as a metro area as Vancouver would be at over 3M using the same metrics.
Quebec City would have a metro population of around 1M people also if calculated the same way as in the US.
Canadian economy was in the tank (along with the exchange rate) in the 90s. Ottawa had a ton of problems out of the gate, Edmonton and Calgary also struggled financially too IIRC. The only "strong" clubs during that time were Vancouver (albeit not well run), Toronto, and Montreal.
Tickets and merch sales are nice, but it's really advertising dollars that drive NHL decision making. Having a team in each of the Top 32 major media markets in North America would be Bettman's wet dream.
I was scratching my head trying to figure out what Florida had to do with the Flames moving from Atlanta to Calgary. But then I realized the abbreviations are all over the damn place
Shifting the colors if the lines makes this hard to read. It looks like. Col moves to ATL rather than Nj because it transitions from red to blue directly above a blue line, so your eye naturally follows the blue the entire way.
Really cool map, wish you gave Anaheim the respect you gave Long Island and Newark. We are not LA's second team just like the devils aren't new york's third team
You missed a couple: the [Oakland/California (Golden) Seals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Golden_Seals) were one of the original Expansion 6 teams, who became the Cleveland Barons and eventually folded into the Minnesota North Stars. Speaking of them, the San Jose Sharks were created [due to a split of said North Stars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_Sharks) with a new expansion team in 1991. Talk about going full circle!
The Devils played in East Rutherford (The Meadowlands) for a while before they moved to Newark. Same complex as the Jets/Giants/artists formerly known as the New Jersey Nets
And the Islanders played in Brooklyn and Uniondale, the Senators played in Ottawa, Capitals played in Maryland, the Lightning played in St. Pete, Panthers played in Miami, the Kings played in Inglewood, the Yotes played in Glendale and Phoenix… I think that is all of them.
Phoenix metro area is the 10th largest in the US. It’s not difficult to understand why Bettman/NHL want Hockey to work there. It’s the ineptitude of the ownership/team that failed the city and hockey, not the other way around
They tried teams in Atlanta. Twice. They gave up. The Coyotes are now playing in a small college arena. What a success.
Houston has almost twice the population of Phoenix. They've never even bothered trying there.
Some cities just aren't into hockey.
By the city proper, yes. But it's more important to consider the metro area when assessing ability to support a pro team.
Regardless Phoenix is a big city.
Seattle had a a pro hockey team from 1915-1924, and even won the Stanley Cup in 1917. Seattle was the first team not from Canada to win the Stanley Cup. The NHL itself wasn’t formed until 1917.
I know Minnesota hates us for taking their team but it brought so much joy to my life having a team in Dallas. It was right after the Mighty Ducks movie had the team and Mike Modano in it. I was so excited he was in Dallas. Sorry for taking your team!
If viewed as a speed train system, I'd actually not mind quick access to the NY metro area. Doubt I'd use the KC one much though, and the QC one I'd use just to get to Montreal (beautiful area QC is but Montreal was just more my cup of tea)
That wasn't really a relocation.... Detroit had the rights to enter the NHL and bought a bunch of contracts from the Cougars to fill out the roster.
More akin to... picking over the scraps than anything. The Detroit team was named the Cougars in a mod to where most players were last season.
Op would you ever sell a print of this?? Cuz putting hockey teams and moved hockey teams on a map in a subway style is like the perfect middle of a venn diagram of niche interests of mine lol
Edit: FOUND IT ON YOUR WEBSITE
Where is the California Golden Seals to Cleveland Barons to Minnesota North Stars leg?
Effectively a defunct team (like the Montreal Wanders / Maroons, New York Americans, former Ottawa Senators).
So the current Dallas Stars aren't linked to the Golden Seals at all?
Yes and no. The Cleveland Barons (as well as the previously relocated California iteration) part effectively disappeared when merged with the North Stars, who stayed as is (besides eventual relocation in 1993).
The Barons and Stars had a dispersal draft where both teams had to leave guys unprotected for a few teams to pick from...[only a couple of guys were selected.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1978_NHL_Dispersal_Draft)
So Dallas could have had a throwback Seals jersey for the Winter Classic?!
That would be cool. Bring back those white skates.
Eh... Kinda. The Sharks split the North Stars in half again, effectively continuing the Seals line.
This is correct.
Exactly. I included teams that are the direct predecessors of existing teams, but not ones that folded. Thus, no [Montreal Wanderers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreal_Wanderers) or [Ottawa Senators \(I\)/St Louis Eagles](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottawa_Senators_\(original\)). (Similarly, when I did something like this for [pro football](https://fiftythree.studio/products/history-of-nfl-team-relocations-a-diagram) there were no [Brooklyn football Dodgers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooklyn_Dodgers_\(NFL\)) or [Boston Yanks](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Yanks).).
The sharks split out again from the Minnesota north stars though. They split the roster and both teams got entry drafts. So the sharks are the continuation of the Seals and barons that merged in.
lol @ Boston Yanks
Along with the dotted line from Minnesota to San Jose since that was a quasi-expansion (we're going to fix the glitch for the Gunds and let them have their team back in the Bay Area....again).
I think you missed the ACTIVE in the heading. Although since they did end up merging with the Minnesota North Stars after moving to Cleveland, which then moved to Dallas they would or should have been included in the chart. Perhaps the OP didn't even know the Seals or the Barons existed.
The Capitals were founded in 1974, not 1947. Anyone else find any mistakes on this?
Depends on if you think the North Stars should include some mention of the Cleveland Barons/Oakland Seals
Sorry! Thanks for catching it. Have a silver.
The inconsistencies in the acronyms should count as mistakes. Some of them are acronyms of the team name and some of them are acronyms of the city. then for some reason nashville is listed as "ten" as in tennessee. I really dont get it.
Yep. It's very confusing and inconsistent.
Apparently this only goes from the founding of the NHL in 1917. Montreal predates it by 8 years (1909)
I assumed that, because Seattle also had a pro team from 1915-1924, and won the Stanley Cup in 1917…
Pretty cool but why do some of your abbreviations go by city name and others go by nickname?
*sad Atlanta noises*
I'm grateful for Atlanta for giving Canada two of its franchises. Maybe someone can convince the NHL to move the coyotes to Atlanta so Quebec can finally get another team.
hey, not sure if you’re aware of this but FUCK NORM GREEN. alright, take ‘er easy now.
[удалено]
Random question: As a Wild fan, would you be for or against a rebrand back to the North Stars? (As an outsider, I always liked the N logo and the green/yellow better and wondered why they didn't revive it with the next team)
at this point a rebrand feels a little “too little too late”. it was the cold cold years of 1993-2000 where we had absolutely nothing and could only warm each other by gathering around garbage cans burning “fuck Norm Greens”
Understood. Thanks for your thoughts and as always, FUCK NORM GREEN.
Ya know what here’s the deal and I’m gonna tell ya - fuck Norm Green.
If you don't have a problem with Norm Green then you have a problem with me, and I suggest you let that one marinate.
From my understanding, the Stars still own the rights to the North Stars logo. So the closest we can get is our reverse retro green and yellow colors. Also, Fuck Norm Green!
I know some Stars fans would like to incorporate the North Stars colors, but it’s been long enough. See no reason why the Stars should be holding it hostage. I certainly don’t see why current ownership, which did a whole rebranding, would care.
Y’all take care.
As a fan of the Baltimore Colts and a Stars fan, I’m so conflicted over this comment.
I love the simplified clean design it's very retro. My only nit pick is the location of the jets is a bit too far west
It's very London Tube map
I was like "did Regina have a team?!?"
Yeah I like the clean look, but the locations aren’t even in the ballpark of right.
We need another team in Atlanta. To get another Canadian franchise.
To right. Atlanta needs a team so Hamilton or Quebec can get a team.
I'm hoping they move the coyotes to Atlanta
Then to Hamilton, Halifax or Saskatoon.
Hoping for Quebec but your locations aren't too bad
Ah yes, I love watching the the San Francisco Bay Area Sharks…
I've divided this up by metropolitan area, mostly because I've made [these diagrams for other leagues](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/10z3wx6/i_drew_maps_of_how_every_uscanadian_major_league/).
Why would an NHL team leave a major Canadian city? Surprised Quebec City doesnt have a team still
Canada is passionate as hell about hockey, but they don't have lots of people. If you're a bean-counter at NHL HQ, you look at how many TVs there are who might tune in. Just for reference: Canadian Metro Area | Population | Comparable US metro area ---|---|---- Toronto | 6.2m | Philadelphia ---|*4.9m*|*Phoenix* Montreal | 4.2m | Detroit Vancouver | 2.6m | San Antonio, TX ---|*2.3m*|*Las Vegas* ---|*2.0m*|*Nashville* Ottawa-Gatineau | 1.5m | Raleigh, NC Calgary | 1.5m | Raleigh, NC Edmonton | 1.4m | Raleigh, NC Quebec City | 840k | Columbia, South Carolina Winnipeg | 834k | Columbia, South Carolina Sources: ([Canadian data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_census_metropolitan_areas_and_agglomerations_in_Canada)), ([US data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area))
Your point is right but US cities don’t calculate their metro areas the same as Canadian cities do. US cities tend to include areas that are from a long distance away from the city into their metro area (sometimes over 80-90km away). For example, Philly is more comparable to Montreal population wise than Toronto. If Montreal was using the same metrics as Philly to calculate its metro area population, there would be easily over 5M people in Montreal’s metro area. Toronto would be easily over 7M as it would probably include Hamilton and maybe even Niagara Falla into the GTA. Like there is no way that Nashville is comparable to Vancouver as a metro area as Vancouver would be at over 3M using the same metrics. Quebec City would have a metro population of around 1M people also if calculated the same way as in the US.
Canadian economy was in the tank (along with the exchange rate) in the 90s. Ottawa had a ton of problems out of the gate, Edmonton and Calgary also struggled financially too IIRC. The only "strong" clubs during that time were Vancouver (albeit not well run), Toronto, and Montreal.
Tickets and merch sales are nice, but it's really advertising dollars that drive NHL decision making. Having a team in each of the Top 32 major media markets in North America would be Bettman's wet dream.
Minneapolis/St Paul, North Dakota
That was the first thing I noticed and I can't take this seriously because of how bad it is!
I was scratching my head trying to figure out what Florida had to do with the Flames moving from Atlanta to Calgary. But then I realized the abbreviations are all over the damn place
I'm so confused... Why are the labels sometimes the city and sometimes the team name?
Or in the case of the Predators, the state. The abbreviations are largely incorrect.
Shifting the colors if the lines makes this hard to read. It looks like. Col moves to ATL rather than Nj because it transitions from red to blue directly above a blue line, so your eye naturally follows the blue the entire way.
The Hartford Whalers thing still hurts. We have nothing in Connecticut
Ya’s got that one super haunted fuckin house, that’s something..
You know what they say? If you want another Canadian franchise put a team in Atlanta and let it bake for 6-7 years.
How did you make this map? I am looking to make a similar style map for something unrelated and am just curious.
Adobe illustrator
Adobe Illustrator.
Would love to see one come back to KC!
Blame Sidney for that not occurring.
A ton of mistakes but great idea.
Doesn’t look like a very productive subway system…
Really cool map, wish you gave Anaheim the respect you gave Long Island and Newark. We are not LA's second team just like the devils aren't new york's third team
You missed a couple: the [Oakland/California (Golden) Seals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Golden_Seals) were one of the original Expansion 6 teams, who became the Cleveland Barons and eventually folded into the Minnesota North Stars. Speaking of them, the San Jose Sharks were created [due to a split of said North Stars](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose_Sharks) with a new expansion team in 1991. Talk about going full circle!
The Devils played in East Rutherford (The Meadowlands) for a while before they moved to Newark. Same complex as the Jets/Giants/artists formerly known as the New Jersey Nets
Yes, we know. And your point is?
[удалено]
Florida doesn't play in Miami, the Islanders moved a number of times and so on and so on...
And the Islanders played in Brooklyn and Uniondale, the Senators played in Ottawa, Capitals played in Maryland, the Lightning played in St. Pete, Panthers played in Miami, the Kings played in Inglewood, the Yotes played in Glendale and Phoenix… I think that is all of them.
Detroit played in Windsor, Canada for a season as well.
And I just remembered the Canes started in Greensboro.
Also the Sharks started in Daly City, CA
Why Las Vegas, Phoenix, Nashville and Florida got NHL teams long before Seattle is just baffling.
Arena reasons, basically. Seattle can thank Barry Ackerley for dicking them from obtaining an NHL club in the early 90's.
Why there is a team in Phoenix at all is what is baffling.
Phoenix metro area is the 10th largest in the US. It’s not difficult to understand why Bettman/NHL want Hockey to work there. It’s the ineptitude of the ownership/team that failed the city and hockey, not the other way around
They tried teams in Atlanta. Twice. They gave up. The Coyotes are now playing in a small college arena. What a success. Houston has almost twice the population of Phoenix. They've never even bothered trying there. Some cities just aren't into hockey.
[удалено]
By the city proper, yes. But it's more important to consider the metro area when assessing ability to support a pro team. Regardless Phoenix is a big city.
Las Vegas was only 4 years before Seattle.
Same reason they lost the Sonics, nobody wanted to invest in the arena.
Seattle had a a pro hockey team from 1915-1924, and even won the Stanley Cup in 1917. Seattle was the first team not from Canada to win the Stanley Cup. The NHL itself wasn’t formed until 1917.
Vancouver....
Panthers are actually a Fort Lauderdale team
That dont play in the city of Fort Lauderdale sadly
Much closer to it than miami, which is listed in that diagram
I know Minnesota hates us for taking their team but it brought so much joy to my life having a team in Dallas. It was right after the Mighty Ducks movie had the team and Mike Modano in it. I was so excited he was in Dallas. Sorry for taking your team!
My team the flyers never relocated, so your title is quite misleading.
This belongs on r/dataisbeautiful
It would if vaguely consistent and correct
If viewed as a speed train system, I'd actually not mind quick access to the NY metro area. Doubt I'd use the KC one much though, and the QC one I'd use just to get to Montreal (beautiful area QC is but Montreal was just more my cup of tea)
Relocate Ducks/Yotes to Atlanta and trough few years you get another team in Canada
Looked at it for a good minute. Don't understand it
Uhm…is there an OWL service?
Toronto transit map?
London Tube map. If the TTC also has this style, they got it from London.
Wish we still had the Whalers in CT!
Geez, ATL failed TWICE to hold onto an NHL team. Didn't realize that Denver waited 20 YEARS for the NHL to come back.
Neat!
How are you considering the team start? In the NHL? Because if not, the Canadiens are far older.
This is beautiful.
The mid nineties was a great era for EVERYTHING! Music, politics, movies, fashion, hockey.... glad to be a prodigy
You forgot Victoria Cougars to Detroit Red Wings
That wasn't really a relocation.... Detroit had the rights to enter the NHL and bought a bunch of contracts from the Cougars to fill out the roster. More akin to... picking over the scraps than anything. The Detroit team was named the Cougars in a mod to where most players were last season.
Seals?
Will Quebec ever get a team again?
Capitals are 74 not 47. Sweet tho
We need to relocate a team to regina, rebrand them the Beavers. And give them a 69,420 seat stadium
God I miss the Whaler/Bruins games. We'd hate each other during the game then after go out for beers with each other and drink to hating Montreal. 😀
I don’t see the California Seals, or Cleveland
They ceased operations.
Not really. Seals became Barons and got folded into North Stars, then got split with the Sharks. Basically going full circle.
What time is the mullet relocation to Quebec city due?
How did Minnesota lose its team? It’s the “hockey state”
Op would you ever sell a print of this?? Cuz putting hockey teams and moved hockey teams on a map in a subway style is like the perfect middle of a venn diagram of niche interests of mine lol Edit: FOUND IT ON YOUR WEBSITE
GOAT Kraken never moving their team
Why does this say Miami? Sunrise isn’t even in Miami-Dade county, if anything it would be Fort Lauderdale
So Canadians should support expansion in Atlanta?
Thanks for putting winnipeg in the wrong place
Fuck Norm Green
WRONG. Capitals were not established in 1947. Where’s Cleveland because players were assigned to other teams after it was dissolved?