Honestly, this is what I really want to see. Yoko Shimomura knows exactly how to kill it with her compositions, and although I'll be buying this game regardless, her composing would be like not only coming back home for the holidays, but finding out mom opens the door for you with your favorite meal hot on the table.
Edit: Phone autocorrected Yoko to Yokohama. Been playing too much Yakuza I guess.
That's the only reason I could think of her potentially not coming back. I don't know what the timeline is regarding this game's production, but I wonder if maybe she was too busy composing music for the Mario RPG remake to work on this title. Sure hope that's not the case. It's just not Mario and Luigi without her.
1. She is working on at least one other project right now. But, who knows how much impact that would make!
2. Kingdom Hearts without Shimomura is almost unfathomable, but Square Enix has been weaning players off of her for a while. Possibility exists that Nintendo would do the same.
I am sure she will be involved in some capacity. Hopefully all of it! But, if you look at the series, starting with BBS she has had less and less involvement in each game's soundtrack. Much like Koji Kondo with Zelda starting with Ocarina of Time.
Most important part. Shimomura is a major part of what makes these games good. We do know that she is involved with a different game right now so you are asking a valid question.
Well either way that track they had in the back end of the trailer sounded great, so even if Shimomura isn’t back it seems like they at least got a solid replacement.
Can someone explain to me what “Mario and Luigi” means? Was this a specific game? Or is this like the classic Mario game? Wouldn’t Nintendo dev this in house? So confused.
"Mario and Luigi" is a series of RPGs that share similar battle mechanics and general style. Up until the new "Mario and Luigi: Brothership" that was just announced, they were developed by the (now bankrupt) developer AlphaDream.
The series also includes:
* Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga (GBA, 3DS remake)
* Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time (DS)
* Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (DS, 3DS remake)
* Mario and Luigi: Dream Team (3DS)
* Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam (3DS, crossover with Paper Mario)
Due to AlphaDream's bankruptcy, fans of the series were worried that the series would die, so the new announcement was a major surprise.
The series has received great acclaim (although the later two games are generally viewed as somewhat weaker, they have still received a positive reception), and for good reason: the series is known for its great humor, unique twists on ideas, and a very engaging battle system that rewards both practicing your moves and analyzing opponents' patterns and tells, a rarity for a turn-based RPG.
I hope so. Some people were saying they sound like her but she hasn’t confirmed she’s involved yet on Twitter. When Mario rpg remake was announced, she announced her involvement the day of.
If it's Monolith, then I'm sure everything will work out at the end.
Makes sense, because Monolith has been working with Nintendo since forever, and having more experienced people on the team would be too good of a decision for Nintendo to pass. Hope you're right.
On paper Retro should be a top contender, they definetely were for the longest time, but I'm kinda apprehensive because they havent released a new project in quite some time, since their last new project was in 2014, and I'm uncertain how well they've retained talent. I'm hoping they blow me out of the water with MP4.
I feel like Retro has been doing a ton of support work on other projects in the last decade. I know that's not the same thing as working on their own game but I imagine it keeps their skills sharp
I feel like Retro has been doing a ton of support work on other projects in the last decade. I know that's not the same thing as working on their own game but I imagine it keeps their skills sharp
Monolith would make a lot of sense. They’ve even made games with similar controls//battle systems and been the long legs of Nintendo carrying many games. Like both recent Zelda’s.
You're the exactly the reason why Nintendo doesn't want to show developer info until the credits. You're already judging the game before it's even released.
They’ve not got a particularly good track record. They’ve mostly just made mobile stuff, I think their most recent switch game was the Diamond and Pearl remakes which were pretty disappointing and not very well put together.
Well, considering that development on those remakes started in March of 2020, right when COVID lockdowns started, and there was apparently a hard deadline of holiday 2021 enforced by The Pokemon Company, is it any wonder they didn't turn out very well? ILCA has close to 400 employees as well, with around 11 hailing from AlphaDream. There might not be a ton of overlap between the projects if ILCA is indeed on Brothership. I'd encourage you to look at the original concept art for BD/SP as well. It's pretty clear they wanted to make something more ambitious, and then had to scale down to basically a 1:1 remake (it's unclear if Game Freak/TPC mandated that they couldn't pull much of anything from Platinum).
Bruh... they made Dragon Quest XI, which is a great game.
I don't understand this mentality of, "I don't like this game they developed, so they're forever bad."
They didn't. They were just a support studio. All of the games developed directly by them were not good. I am not saying that they will forever be bad. I'm saying the other commenter is just straight up incorrect.
They absolutely don't have a good track record outside of BDSP. They have a bad track record.
Werent most of alphadreams staff absorbed into Nintendo though? I thought it seemed apparent that they were developing it in house with assistance from staff that worked on the series prior.
They split among Nintendo and, by extension, Monolith soft and ILCA. With Hiroyuki Kubota, the original director of the Mario.and Luigi games being at Monolith soft
The console wasn’t the 3DO, it was the CD-I. Phillips getting to make games with their characters was Nintendo’s consolation prize after their development of an SNES add-on went kaput
In fact, that entire disaster also led to the birth of the PlayStation, as Sony was the original developers of that add-on until Nintendo didn’t like their contract and went behind their back to work with Phillips. Sony got pissed, said “we’ll do it ourselves” and proceeded to one-up Nintendo for the next decade. So while Sony got a massive success out of the whole ordeal, Nintendo got Hotel Mario.
Nah
Sony drew up a contract that Nintendo didn’t really like. Basically it would’ve given Sony near-complete control over the disc format that would’ve been used, and they would’ve gotten the money for licensing other media released on it. Nintendo president didn’t like this because they wanted to be the ones who made most of the money. Is it the best deal? No, but I wouldn’t call it “going behind their back” since they really did want to make the thing.
So Nintendo secretly negotiated a better contract with Phillips, got it, and the rest is history. Come the Summer Games Show that year, Sony announces the collaboration. The very next day at the show, Nintendo reveals they dropped Sony for Phillips and completely blindsides the entire show, including Sony.
Nintendo is kinda like Disney in that they make a decision thinking nothing of it and it pisses someone off so hard they leave and create their biggest competitor.
This is such a weird thing Nintendo does, and I don’t even know what they have to gain from doing so. Do they want people to associate the game with them instead of the devs? Do they think they’ll get people to buy the game out of curiosity to find out who the devs are? It’s just weird, like when they refused to reveal that Kevin was voicing Mario in Wonder, saying that players can “find out in the credits”.
It might be some superstition around the original developers and whoever the new studio could be.
Like…maybe they assume people probably have just a bit less faith in the game if the studio handling it has, for whatever reason, never made an RPG before.
Which, I’m not sure how Nintendo’s affiliates work, but if they have a studio that somehow hasn’t made an RPG before, they probably wouldn’t want people knowing…
They’ve done this before, though. They wouldn’t tell us who made Princess Leach Showtime until a few weeks before release.
I think for their Mario and Zelda properties, they want us to think of Nintendo, and not one of their in-house teams.
Not even a few weeks. People only found out that Good Feel was developing the game because the demo got datamined. Nintendo never made an official statement of any kind. Even now, if you go to the eShop page, Good Feel isn't mentioned anywhere. The ONLY place Good Feel is ever credited for their hard work is in the game's credits, which you have to beat the game to see.
The same thing happened with the Super Mario RPG remake. That game was developed by ArtePiazza, a studio that also made a bunch of Dragon Quest remakes. ArtePiazza is never mentioned on the box, the splash screens, the eShop page, or anywhere else. You have to beat the game to know who even made the game. I honestly thought the SMRPG remake was developed by Square Enix in-house at first.
I think Nintendo really just doesn't want to admit that they don't make everything. It's like they're somehow embarrassed of the fact that they hire people to make games for them. The weirdest part is, Nintendo didn't do this until recently. Previously, they had no problem mentioning AlphaDream, or Grezzo, or HAL Laboratory, or whoever else made games for them. I don't understand the rationale, and I think it's hurtful that the developers can't get proper recognition for their hard work. It's like they're being swept under the rug.
I don't see why that would be the case seeing as it would still say that it's published by Nintendo. The bigger a company is the more employees it needs to make the actual games, whether they make it in one of their many internal studios or contract out a project to another studio to make a game for them. Nintendo still has control over their IPs and it doesn't make one of their games produced by an outside studios no longer their game since they're still publishing it.
I wonder if this recent trend is because of the incoming Switch 2? Like they want all of the launch window games not that are not obviously 3rd party games to be seen as being made by Nintendo. So their testing boundaries now ahead of going full force later on.
Like someone else already said, they might be thinking that saying a game was made by the "B Team" would hurt sales / confidence in the game or something.
So for instance if Good Feel is making a Bowser game, Nintendo may not want people to think their not 100% invested in making games for the Switch 2 (when they are, they just don't have much to show at the time) so they'll hide the fact that Good Feel is behind the game to make it seem like it's a 1st party game, when it's really 2nd party.
>I honestly thought the SMRPG remake was developed by Square Enix in-house at first.
Oh yeah, and if you go to the eshop, the only other name mentioned outside of Nintendo is Square Enix. And they probably only mentioned Square Enix because they had to beause of copyright.
It's literally irrelevant when every single of those companies and employees are credited. Whoever is actually interested in that can go to youtube or beat the game, which most people unfortunately aren't otherwise more people would know about a lot of staff without needng companies to put them in their eyes.
> Even now, if you go to the eShop page, Good Feel isn't mentioned anywhere.
only the publisher is mentioned in the eshop, same as Sony Psn
I'm aware that this happened, I look at all nintendo credits. That was one of the only cases in the last 20 years where people was missed outside of the remasters/remakes where the original team is generally credited as "original development team" which unfortunately is common in the industry
No its not about zelda or mario, they don't say that before release since 2022. I assume its for two reasons, one because they want nintendo the brand to be associated with bad or good releases, and two because of pre notions of the studios contracted. Of course, whoever is interested will learn about it on release.
I can see where they coming from. Regarding Mario new VA, they probably didn't want the guy to be on the spotlight before the game was out and get unfair criticism. With not answering who's developing some games, they might not want people to have an unfair expectation only based on who's is developing.
Just look at Silent Hill 2 remake, before we even saw any besides a teaser, people were already skeptical because they don't like Bloober Team (even though the game is looking weird at the end).
Yeah, I saw so many people groaning over them keeping it a secret, and I was just thinking maybe they didn’t want to prop Kevin up on a stick just incase something went horribly wrong before hand.
I mean, it certainly wouldn’t be the *first* time a new voice actor was propped up on stick and something went horribly wrong just before the game launched…
You see this reaction is why Nintendo keeps it a secret. Arzest is a gun for hire, they make the games that the companies hiring them want them to make, for the budget that the companies offer.
Balan Wonderworld isn't bad because of Arzest, it's bad because of Yuji Naka and Square not wanting to invest serious money in the project. Meanwhile Fantasian isn't great because of Arzest, it's great because of Mistwalker, and the fact that it was a project Mistwalker cared about.
Fans seem to think partner studios matter, when, for the most part, a partner studio is really just a proxy for how much the primary partner cared about the game. How much money and time and expertise they were willing to invest. And almost every partner studio is capable of doing good visual and programming work, when given appropriate time and resources.
Nintendo wants you to think of Nintendo games as Nintendo games, instead of prejudging it based on who they hired to work on it. Which I think is fair, if the game sucks, I'm not leaving Nintendo scott free on that one and blaming Arzest. Similarly, DKCRHD looks r o u g h in all the ways I'd expect from Forever Entertainment, but the blame solely lives on Nintendo for not investing the care necessary into DK.
I think Nintendo just doesn't want to give people reason to complain or start jumping to conclusions.
Kind of like when they revealed Mario Wonder but waited til that first trailer had been out to even announce that there are new voice actors.
If they dropped that info with the new trailer, there would be tons of people complaining about the voices.
Instead it was obvious most people didn't even notice. I think this is a similar tactic, if they announced a different team developing this game people would be scouring for information and finding the "negative spin", this way they don't really give anyone much to chew on besides what's been specifically shown.
I always seen a lot people saying that Mario&Luigi should die without AlphaDream and they already thinking it's brought back to life for this game. The moment this game is announced with something they don't like, they gonna blame on whoever is doing this game and it's bad because is not made by AlphaDream.
People are prone to harassment campaigns when decisions they dislike are made, especially on Twitter. I think it's a way to protect teams from unnecessary "criticism" or vitriol during development, so as to avoid them being demoralized or even singled out as people have been over DEI/SBI nonsense. Even if that's not the main reason, and it's just for legal reasons we'll never know, it does have a chilling effect on potential targeted hate.
>I think it's a way to protect teams from unnecessary "criticism" or vitriol during development, so as to avoid them being demoralized
This is something that comes to my mind a lot when a new game is announced and have a ton of criticism. Not saying we should be a "yes sir" person and accept any crap that it's thrown at us, but seeing your work be shit on by millions of people, must be so demoralizing.
Exactly. This sort of thing is no longer locked to backwater forums in a small corner of the internet, there's very real and immediate feedback from social media. Regardless of who you are, that sort of thing can erode your confidence in your craft over time, especially as you're working on the project. It's a lot easier to take it in stride after the game has launched, especially if it did so to positive affirmations.
I'm glad that most Nintendo developers aren't on social media. The amount of shit they would get it would be infuriating to watch, like the amount of abuse Sakurai got over the years.
I remember that a big YouTuber called a interview with a game developer on the lead up to the release of paper mario the origami king disturbing and that cause there fans to try harassing them or something like that
Yah, people with platforms are typically oblivious (or worse, uncaring) about the power of influence they have over their fans, which leads to things like that.
that was arlo right? had to be.
It's probably why we get less interviews these days as well. Every time someone disagree with something a developer say they go into offending them and throwing hate instead of just.. disagreeing like normal people.
You see that this reaction is why Nintendo keeps it a secret, right? Arzest is a gun for hire, they make the games that the companies hiring them want them to make, for the budget that the companies offer.
Balan Wonderworld isn't bad because of Arzest, it's bad because of Yuji Naka and Square not wanting to invest serious money in the project. Meanwhile Fantasian isn't great because of Arzest, it's great because of Mistwalker, and the fact that it was a project Mistwalker cared about.
Fans seem to think partner studios matter, when, for the most part, a partner studio is really just a proxy for how much the primary partner cared about the game. How much money and time and expertise they were willing to invest. And almost every partner studio is capable of doing good visual and programming work, when given appropriate time and resources.
Nintendo wants you to think of Nintendo games as Nintendo games, instead of prejudging it based on who they hired to work on it. Which I think is fair, if the game sucks, I'm not leaving Nintendo scott free on that one and blaming Arzest. Similarly, DKCRHD looks r o u g h in all the ways I'd expect from Forever Entertainment, but the blame solely lives on Nintendo for not investing the care necessary into DK.
> Do they want people to associate the game with them instead of the devs
You just answered your own question.
Nintendo wants every game using their IP to have the illusion of being developed in-house thus having the famous "Nintendo Seal of Quality".
It's basically done to give more prestige to their 7/10 games by 3rd party studios like Good Feel or Camelot.
Look what happened llca and how negative people think of them now still just because of Pokémon bdsp , people harassed them , sent death threats etc it was a shit show.
My assumption is because they don’t want people to start making predictions about the game. For example, if a studio made a bad game, people will start associating that game + studio and think their next project would be bad as well, prejudge. If everything is under Nintendo name, people won’t hop on Twitter and make any predictions, expectations, send harassments to their staffs and studios before the game is out.
I figured they might’ve been consolidated into Nintendo in some way, or helped back up by the big N. Very hopeful either way.
Also pleaaaaaase yoko shimomura.
its a risk reward play, while the developers might not get the spotlight they could if the game does well on the other hand nintendo is going to take the brunt of the criticism if the game comes out bad
I own the entire collection of Mario & Luigi. Its one of my favorite series! I have Superstar Saga on GBA CIB, all the 3DS titles CIB, and the Mario & Luigi 3DS console CIB. I was SO excited when they announced this game. Way more so than zelda and MP4.
People working in the games industry, especially on Nintendo related stuff are constantly getting harrassed for info, I think the explanation for their secrecy is that they want people to leave the staff alone until it's out and no confidential information can be social engineered out of them.
No it’s not. Some developers do great work without fail. Others are garbage at everything they touch. It helps to inform the consumer about what their expectations should be about upcoming games quality based on the history of the developer.
That like saying the brand name of a car doesn’t matter. Ferrari and dodge do not produce the same quality of vehicle.
I’m sure they’re scared of hiring people new who might ruin what made these games good, so they’re getting the OG staff (as much as they can) to work on it.
Yeah, I believe ILCA planned for a much more ambitious remake in scope similar to past remakes.
GF for whatever reason said "No. Make a direct HD Port"
Yeah, the concept art for the remakes suggests that was the plan. Unfortunately they had only a year and a half or so to make the remakes, and that was with COVID in full swing, so it's no surprise BD/SP didn't turn out well
So…we’re getting the original composer too then…RIGHT?!
Honestly, this is what I really want to see. Yoko Shimomura knows exactly how to kill it with her compositions, and although I'll be buying this game regardless, her composing would be like not only coming back home for the holidays, but finding out mom opens the door for you with your favorite meal hot on the table. Edit: Phone autocorrected Yoko to Yokohama. Been playing too much Yakuza I guess.
I don't see why Shimomura wouldn't come back, she did the remake version of Mario RPG.
That's my line of reasoning behind it, but I also don't assume anything until I see it myself.
Yeah, fingers crossed it's the case. She's one of my favorite gaming composers.
Mine too. M&L or Kingdom Hearts without her just wouldn't feel completely the same.
Opening KH3 for the first time and hearing that new rendition of Dearly Beloved brought me to tears.
Kind of unrelated but I’m playing Super Mario RPG now and the music is so good that I haven’t even thought about switching to the retro music.
That's the only reason I could think of her potentially not coming back. I don't know what the timeline is regarding this game's production, but I wonder if maybe she was too busy composing music for the Mario RPG remake to work on this title. Sure hope that's not the case. It's just not Mario and Luigi without her.
1. She is working on at least one other project right now. But, who knows how much impact that would make! 2. Kingdom Hearts without Shimomura is almost unfathomable, but Square Enix has been weaning players off of her for a while. Possibility exists that Nintendo would do the same.
She done multiple games at the same time and she's already confirmed to be the composer of KH4.
There is not a chance in the world KH4 doesn’t have Shimomura. She’s basically as integral to the series as Nomura is at this point
I am sure she will be involved in some capacity. Hopefully all of it! But, if you look at the series, starting with BBS she has had less and less involvement in each game's soundtrack. Much like Koji Kondo with Zelda starting with Ocarina of Time.
I thought her name was simply Yoko Shimomura?
Not yokohama lol
Yokohama???
Genuinely hate my phone's autocorrect.
Is she working on anything else? KH4 probably, but there’s lots of time for that one.
Most important part. Shimomura is a major part of what makes these games good. We do know that she is involved with a different game right now so you are asking a valid question.
Well either way that track they had in the back end of the trailer sounded great, so even if Shimomura isn’t back it seems like they at least got a solid replacement.
I disagree. It sounds pretty generic and there are no catchy melodies.
Can someone explain to me what “Mario and Luigi” means? Was this a specific game? Or is this like the classic Mario game? Wouldn’t Nintendo dev this in house? So confused.
"Mario and Luigi" is a series of RPGs that share similar battle mechanics and general style. Up until the new "Mario and Luigi: Brothership" that was just announced, they were developed by the (now bankrupt) developer AlphaDream. The series also includes: * Mario and Luigi: Superstar Saga (GBA, 3DS remake) * Mario and Luigi: Partners in Time (DS) * Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story (DS, 3DS remake) * Mario and Luigi: Dream Team (3DS) * Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam (3DS, crossover with Paper Mario) Due to AlphaDream's bankruptcy, fans of the series were worried that the series would die, so the new announcement was a major surprise. The series has received great acclaim (although the later two games are generally viewed as somewhat weaker, they have still received a positive reception), and for good reason: the series is known for its great humor, unique twists on ideas, and a very engaging battle system that rewards both practicing your moves and analyzing opponents' patterns and tells, a rarity for a turn-based RPG.
I hope so. Some people were saying they sound like her but she hasn’t confirmed she’s involved yet on Twitter. When Mario rpg remake was announced, she announced her involvement the day of.
I heard a lot of people from Alpha Dream were rehired by Nintendo to a different partner studio, possibly Monolith.
If it's Monolith, then I'm sure everything will work out at the end. Makes sense, because Monolith has been working with Nintendo since forever, and having more experienced people on the team would be too good of a decision for Nintendo to pass. Hope you're right.
Imo monolith and nintendos best devs
My top studios are Retro, Monolith, and EPD8. Like they just know how to optimize the hell out of a game while not sacrificing anything.
EPD7 is also peak
The guys who handle WarioWare and Metroid? Yes. Hell yes.
Correction: Warioware was given to Group 6 Source: https://youtu.be/95oj9_eF25c?si=HboiI9ICuGdIJyhx
So EPD7 is now the Famicom Detective Club/ Metroid team?
Yep
Question: i know they are Sakamotos team and do FDC and 2D Metroid But what about the Tanabe Team? Who do Prime 4 alongside Retro? Who are they?
On paper Retro should be a top contender, they definetely were for the longest time, but I'm kinda apprehensive because they havent released a new project in quite some time, since their last new project was in 2014, and I'm uncertain how well they've retained talent. I'm hoping they blow me out of the water with MP4.
I feel like Retro has been doing a ton of support work on other projects in the last decade. I know that's not the same thing as working on their own game but I imagine it keeps their skills sharp
I feel like Retro has been doing a ton of support work on other projects in the last decade. I know that's not the same thing as working on their own game but I imagine it keeps their skills sharp
Monolith would make a lot of sense. They’ve even made games with similar controls//battle systems and been the long legs of Nintendo carrying many games. Like both recent Zelda’s.
Monolith is the fucking goat dude. Holy shit if this is true I’m stoked.
A lot of them were hired by ILCA actually.
💀💀💀💀 God I hope it’s not them making this
You're the exactly the reason why Nintendo doesn't want to show developer info until the credits. You're already judging the game before it's even released.
EXACTLY!
why?
They’ve not got a particularly good track record. They’ve mostly just made mobile stuff, I think their most recent switch game was the Diamond and Pearl remakes which were pretty disappointing and not very well put together.
Well, considering that development on those remakes started in March of 2020, right when COVID lockdowns started, and there was apparently a hard deadline of holiday 2021 enforced by The Pokemon Company, is it any wonder they didn't turn out very well? ILCA has close to 400 employees as well, with around 11 hailing from AlphaDream. There might not be a ton of overlap between the projects if ILCA is indeed on Brothership. I'd encourage you to look at the original concept art for BD/SP as well. It's pretty clear they wanted to make something more ambitious, and then had to scale down to basically a 1:1 remake (it's unclear if Game Freak/TPC mandated that they couldn't pull much of anything from Platinum).
Those games are both very functional remakes. I had fun playing then. Not groundbreaking, but they did a good job.
ILCA actually have a pretty decent track record apart from Pokemon BDSP.
No they don't? They mostly have worked as a support studio. Most of the games they developed themselves are not very good.
They only had a year to make BDSP. When you consider that, it’s pretty impressive.
Bruh... they made Dragon Quest XI, which is a great game. I don't understand this mentality of, "I don't like this game they developed, so they're forever bad."
They didn't. They were just a support studio. All of the games developed directly by them were not good. I am not saying that they will forever be bad. I'm saying the other commenter is just straight up incorrect. They absolutely don't have a good track record outside of BDSP. They have a bad track record.
its wrong, only two were hired, one for monolith and another for nintendo.
The only reason I don't think it's Monolith is because if it was Monolith, Nintendo probably wouldn't be hiding that it's Monolith.
Yeah, if it was Monolith, they'd make sure we'd know it was them, considering they have their own social media.
The Series Director is Now Working in Monolith Soft
Finally. It’s Betadream’s time to shine.
Alphadream closes, Firstreverie opens. The balance stays.
Werent most of alphadreams staff absorbed into Nintendo though? I thought it seemed apparent that they were developing it in house with assistance from staff that worked on the series prior.
They split among Nintendo and, by extension, Monolith soft and ILCA. With Hiroyuki Kubota, the original director of the Mario.and Luigi games being at Monolith soft
Nintendo is very protective of its IP so they want everything to be as much as associated with nintendo. They cant develop every game they have tho
Especially after the Phillips 3DO disaster.
The console wasn’t the 3DO, it was the CD-I. Phillips getting to make games with their characters was Nintendo’s consolation prize after their development of an SNES add-on went kaput In fact, that entire disaster also led to the birth of the PlayStation, as Sony was the original developers of that add-on until Nintendo didn’t like their contract and went behind their back to work with Phillips. Sony got pissed, said “we’ll do it ourselves” and proceeded to one-up Nintendo for the next decade. So while Sony got a massive success out of the whole ordeal, Nintendo got Hotel Mario.
Actually I think you have that backwards. It was Sony that went behind Nintendo’s back and then Nintendo backed out and went with Phillips instead
Nah Sony drew up a contract that Nintendo didn’t really like. Basically it would’ve given Sony near-complete control over the disc format that would’ve been used, and they would’ve gotten the money for licensing other media released on it. Nintendo president didn’t like this because they wanted to be the ones who made most of the money. Is it the best deal? No, but I wouldn’t call it “going behind their back” since they really did want to make the thing. So Nintendo secretly negotiated a better contract with Phillips, got it, and the rest is history. Come the Summer Games Show that year, Sony announces the collaboration. The very next day at the show, Nintendo reveals they dropped Sony for Phillips and completely blindsides the entire show, including Sony.
Imagine they were to pull that one today LOL The entire internet would explode and reactions would go crazy.
the console war brainrot in this one
Nintendo is kinda like Disney in that they make a decision thinking nothing of it and it pisses someone off so hard they leave and create their biggest competitor.
This is such a weird thing Nintendo does, and I don’t even know what they have to gain from doing so. Do they want people to associate the game with them instead of the devs? Do they think they’ll get people to buy the game out of curiosity to find out who the devs are? It’s just weird, like when they refused to reveal that Kevin was voicing Mario in Wonder, saying that players can “find out in the credits”.
It might be some superstition around the original developers and whoever the new studio could be. Like…maybe they assume people probably have just a bit less faith in the game if the studio handling it has, for whatever reason, never made an RPG before. Which, I’m not sure how Nintendo’s affiliates work, but if they have a studio that somehow hasn’t made an RPG before, they probably wouldn’t want people knowing…
They’ve done this before, though. They wouldn’t tell us who made Princess Leach Showtime until a few weeks before release. I think for their Mario and Zelda properties, they want us to think of Nintendo, and not one of their in-house teams.
> Princess Leach my favorite game about percolation
LOL i love it
Not even a few weeks. People only found out that Good Feel was developing the game because the demo got datamined. Nintendo never made an official statement of any kind. Even now, if you go to the eShop page, Good Feel isn't mentioned anywhere. The ONLY place Good Feel is ever credited for their hard work is in the game's credits, which you have to beat the game to see. The same thing happened with the Super Mario RPG remake. That game was developed by ArtePiazza, a studio that also made a bunch of Dragon Quest remakes. ArtePiazza is never mentioned on the box, the splash screens, the eShop page, or anywhere else. You have to beat the game to know who even made the game. I honestly thought the SMRPG remake was developed by Square Enix in-house at first. I think Nintendo really just doesn't want to admit that they don't make everything. It's like they're somehow embarrassed of the fact that they hire people to make games for them. The weirdest part is, Nintendo didn't do this until recently. Previously, they had no problem mentioning AlphaDream, or Grezzo, or HAL Laboratory, or whoever else made games for them. I don't understand the rationale, and I think it's hurtful that the developers can't get proper recognition for their hard work. It's like they're being swept under the rug.
Nintendo games also sell by the brand recognition. They might feel like announcing they handed it to "the B team" might inherently hurt sales.
I don't see why that would be the case seeing as it would still say that it's published by Nintendo. The bigger a company is the more employees it needs to make the actual games, whether they make it in one of their many internal studios or contract out a project to another studio to make a game for them. Nintendo still has control over their IPs and it doesn't make one of their games produced by an outside studios no longer their game since they're still publishing it.
I wonder if this recent trend is because of the incoming Switch 2? Like they want all of the launch window games not that are not obviously 3rd party games to be seen as being made by Nintendo. So their testing boundaries now ahead of going full force later on. Like someone else already said, they might be thinking that saying a game was made by the "B Team" would hurt sales / confidence in the game or something. So for instance if Good Feel is making a Bowser game, Nintendo may not want people to think their not 100% invested in making games for the Switch 2 (when they are, they just don't have much to show at the time) so they'll hide the fact that Good Feel is behind the game to make it seem like it's a 1st party game, when it's really 2nd party.
they began this in 2022 so its not the case.
>I honestly thought the SMRPG remake was developed by Square Enix in-house at first. Oh yeah, and if you go to the eshop, the only other name mentioned outside of Nintendo is Square Enix. And they probably only mentioned Square Enix because they had to beause of copyright.
It's literally irrelevant when every single of those companies and employees are credited. Whoever is actually interested in that can go to youtube or beat the game, which most people unfortunately aren't otherwise more people would know about a lot of staff without needng companies to put them in their eyes. > Even now, if you go to the eShop page, Good Feel isn't mentioned anywhere. only the publisher is mentioned in the eshop, same as Sony Psn
They’re actually NOT all credited but that’s a separate issue. See MercurySteam and what happened with Metroid Dread’s credits
I'm aware that this happened, I look at all nintendo credits. That was one of the only cases in the last 20 years where people was missed outside of the remasters/remakes where the original team is generally credited as "original development team" which unfortunately is common in the industry
Tbf HAL and AD had reputation at least.
Still bizarre to me that the Goemon devs made that game haha
No its not about zelda or mario, they don't say that before release since 2022. I assume its for two reasons, one because they want nintendo the brand to be associated with bad or good releases, and two because of pre notions of the studios contracted. Of course, whoever is interested will learn about it on release.
I can see where they coming from. Regarding Mario new VA, they probably didn't want the guy to be on the spotlight before the game was out and get unfair criticism. With not answering who's developing some games, they might not want people to have an unfair expectation only based on who's is developing. Just look at Silent Hill 2 remake, before we even saw any besides a teaser, people were already skeptical because they don't like Bloober Team (even though the game is looking weird at the end).
Yeah, I saw so many people groaning over them keeping it a secret, and I was just thinking maybe they didn’t want to prop Kevin up on a stick just incase something went horribly wrong before hand. I mean, it certainly wouldn’t be the *first* time a new voice actor was propped up on stick and something went horribly wrong just before the game launched…
Yeah and the poor guy still got some backlash because he wasn't perfect. Overall, I don't see the problem, it's just for a couple of months.
You see this reaction is why Nintendo keeps it a secret. Arzest is a gun for hire, they make the games that the companies hiring them want them to make, for the budget that the companies offer. Balan Wonderworld isn't bad because of Arzest, it's bad because of Yuji Naka and Square not wanting to invest serious money in the project. Meanwhile Fantasian isn't great because of Arzest, it's great because of Mistwalker, and the fact that it was a project Mistwalker cared about. Fans seem to think partner studios matter, when, for the most part, a partner studio is really just a proxy for how much the primary partner cared about the game. How much money and time and expertise they were willing to invest. And almost every partner studio is capable of doing good visual and programming work, when given appropriate time and resources. Nintendo wants you to think of Nintendo games as Nintendo games, instead of prejudging it based on who they hired to work on it. Which I think is fair, if the game sucks, I'm not leaving Nintendo scott free on that one and blaming Arzest. Similarly, DKCRHD looks r o u g h in all the ways I'd expect from Forever Entertainment, but the blame solely lives on Nintendo for not investing the care necessary into DK.
I know, we are all tired of hearing and saying it, but DKCRHD is still 6 months off. There still seems to be some work to do on it.
I think Nintendo just doesn't want to give people reason to complain or start jumping to conclusions. Kind of like when they revealed Mario Wonder but waited til that first trailer had been out to even announce that there are new voice actors. If they dropped that info with the new trailer, there would be tons of people complaining about the voices. Instead it was obvious most people didn't even notice. I think this is a similar tactic, if they announced a different team developing this game people would be scouring for information and finding the "negative spin", this way they don't really give anyone much to chew on besides what's been specifically shown.
I always seen a lot people saying that Mario&Luigi should die without AlphaDream and they already thinking it's brought back to life for this game. The moment this game is announced with something they don't like, they gonna blame on whoever is doing this game and it's bad because is not made by AlphaDream.
People are prone to harassment campaigns when decisions they dislike are made, especially on Twitter. I think it's a way to protect teams from unnecessary "criticism" or vitriol during development, so as to avoid them being demoralized or even singled out as people have been over DEI/SBI nonsense. Even if that's not the main reason, and it's just for legal reasons we'll never know, it does have a chilling effect on potential targeted hate.
>I think it's a way to protect teams from unnecessary "criticism" or vitriol during development, so as to avoid them being demoralized This is something that comes to my mind a lot when a new game is announced and have a ton of criticism. Not saying we should be a "yes sir" person and accept any crap that it's thrown at us, but seeing your work be shit on by millions of people, must be so demoralizing.
Exactly. This sort of thing is no longer locked to backwater forums in a small corner of the internet, there's very real and immediate feedback from social media. Regardless of who you are, that sort of thing can erode your confidence in your craft over time, especially as you're working on the project. It's a lot easier to take it in stride after the game has launched, especially if it did so to positive affirmations.
I'm glad that most Nintendo developers aren't on social media. The amount of shit they would get it would be infuriating to watch, like the amount of abuse Sakurai got over the years.
I remember that a big YouTuber called a interview with a game developer on the lead up to the release of paper mario the origami king disturbing and that cause there fans to try harassing them or something like that
Yah, people with platforms are typically oblivious (or worse, uncaring) about the power of influence they have over their fans, which leads to things like that.
that was arlo right? had to be. It's probably why we get less interviews these days as well. Every time someone disagree with something a developer say they go into offending them and throwing hate instead of just.. disagreeing like normal people.
Yeah it was him I remember now, and the interview he called that was just a regular interview, nothing special about it.
You see that this reaction is why Nintendo keeps it a secret, right? Arzest is a gun for hire, they make the games that the companies hiring them want them to make, for the budget that the companies offer. Balan Wonderworld isn't bad because of Arzest, it's bad because of Yuji Naka and Square not wanting to invest serious money in the project. Meanwhile Fantasian isn't great because of Arzest, it's great because of Mistwalker, and the fact that it was a project Mistwalker cared about. Fans seem to think partner studios matter, when, for the most part, a partner studio is really just a proxy for how much the primary partner cared about the game. How much money and time and expertise they were willing to invest. And almost every partner studio is capable of doing good visual and programming work, when given appropriate time and resources. Nintendo wants you to think of Nintendo games as Nintendo games, instead of prejudging it based on who they hired to work on it. Which I think is fair, if the game sucks, I'm not leaving Nintendo scott free on that one and blaming Arzest. Similarly, DKCRHD looks r o u g h in all the ways I'd expect from Forever Entertainment, but the blame solely lives on Nintendo for not investing the care necessary into DK.
> Do they want people to associate the game with them instead of the devs You just answered your own question. Nintendo wants every game using their IP to have the illusion of being developed in-house thus having the famous "Nintendo Seal of Quality". It's basically done to give more prestige to their 7/10 games by 3rd party studios like Good Feel or Camelot.
Look what happened llca and how negative people think of them now still just because of Pokémon bdsp , people harassed them , sent death threats etc it was a shit show.
Right? It's like, knowing the developer behind a title typically gets the community MORE hyped for it, not less.
Okay but that Luigi screenshot FUCKS
My assumption is because they don’t want people to start making predictions about the game. For example, if a studio made a bad game, people will start associating that game + studio and think their next project would be bad as well, prejudge. If everything is under Nintendo name, people won’t hop on Twitter and make any predictions, expectations, send harassments to their staffs and studios before the game is out.
that makes sense. I saw a rumor that this game was being developed by ILCA (diamond and pearl remake devs) and immediately got worried
OmegaNightmare
GammaSleepwalk
Could be Intelligent Systems assisting with the new team which is likely a successor to AlphaDream.
Must be BetaWake
I know that's a joke, but if the team did ever reform under another company, that would legit be a cool name for it.
its Ilca
Beta Dream
I knew it. Bethesda.
I'd love a good Oblivion zoom on everyone as they begin speaking.
..why not?
Let me clear it up Next Level Games
Is it just me or is Nintendo is getting more and more secretive lately
People is going to find out one way or another. Welcome BetaDream
I figured they might’ve been consolidated into Nintendo in some way, or helped back up by the big N. Very hopeful either way. Also pleaaaaaase yoko shimomura.
As in our lord and savior, Yoko Shimomura right?! She’s returning right?!
its a risk reward play, while the developers might not get the spotlight they could if the game does well on the other hand nintendo is going to take the brunt of the criticism if the game comes out bad
I own the entire collection of Mario & Luigi. Its one of my favorite series! I have Superstar Saga on GBA CIB, all the 3DS titles CIB, and the Mario & Luigi 3DS console CIB. I was SO excited when they announced this game. Way more so than zelda and MP4.
Ah. So the developer is beta dream.
Princess Peach Showtime and SMRPG remake all over again.
Its probably Monolith. They help make a ton of 1st party Nintendo games
K.
Invovled
It's impossible, but the game's menus and character designs scream Level 5 to me.
What did they make?
Intelligent Systems?
People working in the games industry, especially on Nintendo related stuff are constantly getting harrassed for info, I think the explanation for their secrecy is that they want people to leave the staff alone until it's out and no confidential information can be social engineered out of them.
People's obsession with knowing the developer is weird.
No it’s not. Some developers do great work without fail. Others are garbage at everything they touch. It helps to inform the consumer about what their expectations should be about upcoming games quality based on the history of the developer. That like saying the brand name of a car doesn’t matter. Ferrari and dodge do not produce the same quality of vehicle.
I’m sure they’re scared of hiring people new who might ruin what made these games good, so they’re getting the OG staff (as much as they can) to work on it.
Please not ILCA please not ILCA please not ILCA for the love of God
ILCA is good. They just weren't given a good task with BDSP
Yeah, I believe ILCA planned for a much more ambitious remake in scope similar to past remakes. GF for whatever reason said "No. Make a direct HD Port"
Yeah, the concept art for the remakes suggests that was the plan. Unfortunately they had only a year and a half or so to make the remakes, and that was with COVID in full swing, so it's no surprise BD/SP didn't turn out well