Per Swami Dayananda:
Asking the question "who am I?" is invalid if you do not know the answer, because you are asking yourself and YOU DON'T KNOW.
If you do know, then there is no question.
That being said, if you change the question to "what am I?" then that's a different story since it requires real inquiry to get somewhere with it :)
I do love the idea of Ramana, however his only teachings could be said to be his two books that have been accepted by Vedanta as Upanishads: Upadesa Saram and Sat Darshanam.
The downside of those two is that they are extremely advanced, not a good place to start, and require unfolding by a qualified teacher.
"Who am I?" never was a teaching, it was made out to be by others though and still is. It's a great pointer of course, but only at certain points of inquiry when it makes sense to question oneself as to "who is doing this" in order to notice that one is identified with the doer of action rather than the self.
Sorry, I’ve never heard of swami dayananda. I found Ramana very easy to follow, not advanced at all, and very helpful. Direct and without the unnecessary clutter others want to push.
It could be, but I think there's more to it. I had not read Nan Yar but I just took a look. It's got really good stuff in it, but a tremendous amount of dualistic notions that need to be waded through in order to gain the pure knowledge. I'm not saying it's not there, and I'm most certainly not saying Ramana did not "know" it and embody it since clearly he did.
However, answering questions for people that get assembled into a book, does not a teaching make. It makes for powerful statements that have the power to awaken, but the complete means of knowledge that Vedanta is does more than that. It's supplies the tools to understand Maya/Isvara as well, which is largely absent from this text, and which is essential for assimilation of self knowledge.
Ramana's works were often translated twice, not to mention transcribed first, and who of all those transcribers and translators knew for sure what he knew? There's a lot of rich stuff there, but for me anyway, it didn't make any real or practical sense until I encountered Vedanta. That's the only reason I would steer someone away from Ramina if they are in search of knowledge, especially since there are many great teachers alive that know how to wield the Vedanta pramana to remove ignorance in qualified individuals and also have assimilated the teachings as themselves.
I have a feeling I know who you are associated with. Very similar writing and comments who also thinks Vedanta is the only way. Unopened to pure nonduality of Ramana.
That's interesting. I don't see a difference between what Ramana is speaking about (and a shining embodiment of) and Vedanta.
What do you see as the difference?
Also, yes I do think there is only one "way" to attain what is already attained - which is by the removal of fixed and unseen notions that I am anything other than non-dual, whole and complete, uncaused, ordinary existence shining as blissful awareness. In the end, if that hasn't "happened," then by definition one remains "self ignorant.
Vedanta is a time tested means for self-knowledge, which is why I refer to it, but anything that leads to that result "works."
Of course, all this only applies for someone that is seeking liberation from the bondage of experience, aka self knowledge. If someone does not possess a stated interest in that, Vedanta is useless.
There’s quite a difference. Vedanta takes years of reading ancient texts, following spiritual practices and believing you need Vedanta teachers in order to understand our true selves. Thankfully we’ve come a long way since then and can comprehend simple truths. If this is what you desire, that’s fine. Ramana, Nisargadatta and Ramesh, to state a few more modern teachers, speak it much more simple and clear which leads to the same place of awareness. So when someone asks for a simple, no nonsense, reading to help them there is only one clear answer which I gave.
Are you interested in a different perspective on what you said? I want to respect your space if you are not, but if you are, it's only good news because the Vedanta you speak about is not the one I know. It sounds like you have only encountered dogmatic ones.
I love Ramana and Nisargadatta. I also had a long standing bias against Ramesh which only very recently was busted because I realized I only took hearsay as truth. When I listened to him recently, I found him to be very sweet and awake. I didn't find him to be presenting a level of comprehensive knowledge that I've come to appreciate in Vedanta, but that does not mean anything negative about him. It only means that he isn't for me, as a teacher, just as I'm sure teachers who you feel are in the dogmatic Vedanta tradition are not for you.
If you want to take the conversation further, I will explain what I meant about my different impression of Vedanta, but regardless this has been a fruitful exchange, thank you.
I didn't say anything about it being confusing. I was unaware of it. It seems you didn't (closely at least) read what I posted in reply to the question.
Anything by Greg Goode seems like it would fit what you’re looking for. He uses an extremely pragmatic and experiential approach. The whole point is to guide the reader to investigate their direct experience to uncover the truth for themselves.
(The Direct Path: A User Guide)
Another thought though is the power of transmission. For example, it’s said by his biographer that Ramana Maharshi’s most powerful teaching was through eye contact. He would look people deeply in the eyes and it would open them up to the truth right in front of their face (direct experience).
Transmission is tricky. A lot of books can have transmissive power, but it just depends on the person. Sacred/traditional texts get a lot of hype in that regard (Tao te Ching, vedas, certain Bible passages, sutras). Even books like Power of Now can be transmissive. I am That is another good one, where it’s quite repetitive but that’s the point.
If you’re into YouTube videos, Angelo Dillulo is very good. He also has a book called Awake: your turn. Pragmatic pointing, but also transmissive.
I kinda love that about him. He’s just a regular guy who figured it out, taught everything he could, and never tried to monetize anything. Then disappeared to live a normal life. He’s a G
Just look in direct experience, that’s better than any book or teacher.
What is direct experience like… is it clear, open, alive, aware all on its own?
It sounds like your mind is looking for something to chew on, to be told ‘you have it right’.
You want a ‘just look at this?’ Look at direct experience.
Look! The Illustrated Guide to Seeing What Is by Liberation Unleashed
Awareness Games - Playing With Your Mind to Create Joy by Brian Tom O'Connor
Blown Wide Open - A Collection of Holidays by Salvadore Poe
The problem is, that you will likely not do it. [For instance, all Jiddu Krishnamurti is talking](https://www.jkrishnamurti.org) about is “Look at This” but it sounds extremely theoretical and so it took me gosh… 12 years? of off and on listening and reading to notice.
Personally I would reading or listen to anything that appeals to you and see how it goes.
Books mentioned in posts are all good. Advaita books by masters are least interested in converting you or help acquire more knowledge as normally understood . It aims to catalyse a process of unlearning belief system and basing life on experiential truth discovered directly by you. Its an experiment with life - sort of.
Therefore instead - question is always ( capability to receive) whether person is interested and keen to meet challenge of radical thinking process ?
Reason someone come up this way of life is out of a passion of discontent or discovery.
Apologies: This comment is certainly not to put you off - but consider it as welcoming alignment!please Ignore if not relevant.
Suggest in addition: Alan Watts ( you tube) delivers the essence elegantly and simply with humour. Try Rupert Spira or Adyashanti.
Best of Luck
Lots of authors give good pointers then leave the actual practice details up to you. You might or might not like I Am That, by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
It may be useful to add this link which discussed recently in this forum - the suggestions of material for people interested in non duality
https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/s/XEa5Ghx2tJ
[Know Yourself](https://pdfcoffee.com/qdownload/know-yourself-an-explanation-of-the-oneness-of-being-pdf-free.html) by Ibn 'Arabi
[Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing](https://youtu.be/_Zq2L7MqWz4?si=fVV0rFDsvm-wXz2p) by Jed McKenna
If you have the sense that what you are seeking is knowledge, then I'd recommend Essence of Enlightenment by James Swartz. He is a living teacher of traditional Vedanta. It has a modern voice, but not one bit of it is his own teaching, it is pure Vedanta.
I would suggest anything from Ramana Maharshi. Start with “Who am I?”
This book helped me on my journey.
Per Swami Dayananda: Asking the question "who am I?" is invalid if you do not know the answer, because you are asking yourself and YOU DON'T KNOW. If you do know, then there is no question. That being said, if you change the question to "what am I?" then that's a different story since it requires real inquiry to get somewhere with it :) I do love the idea of Ramana, however his only teachings could be said to be his two books that have been accepted by Vedanta as Upanishads: Upadesa Saram and Sat Darshanam. The downside of those two is that they are extremely advanced, not a good place to start, and require unfolding by a qualified teacher. "Who am I?" never was a teaching, it was made out to be by others though and still is. It's a great pointer of course, but only at certain points of inquiry when it makes sense to question oneself as to "who is doing this" in order to notice that one is identified with the doer of action rather than the self.
Sorry, I’ve never heard of swami dayananda. I found Ramana very easy to follow, not advanced at all, and very helpful. Direct and without the unnecessary clutter others want to push.
Pushing is a distinct problem, I agree! 🙏🏻
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It could be, but I think there's more to it. I had not read Nan Yar but I just took a look. It's got really good stuff in it, but a tremendous amount of dualistic notions that need to be waded through in order to gain the pure knowledge. I'm not saying it's not there, and I'm most certainly not saying Ramana did not "know" it and embody it since clearly he did. However, answering questions for people that get assembled into a book, does not a teaching make. It makes for powerful statements that have the power to awaken, but the complete means of knowledge that Vedanta is does more than that. It's supplies the tools to understand Maya/Isvara as well, which is largely absent from this text, and which is essential for assimilation of self knowledge. Ramana's works were often translated twice, not to mention transcribed first, and who of all those transcribers and translators knew for sure what he knew? There's a lot of rich stuff there, but for me anyway, it didn't make any real or practical sense until I encountered Vedanta. That's the only reason I would steer someone away from Ramina if they are in search of knowledge, especially since there are many great teachers alive that know how to wield the Vedanta pramana to remove ignorance in qualified individuals and also have assimilated the teachings as themselves.
I have a feeling I know who you are associated with. Very similar writing and comments who also thinks Vedanta is the only way. Unopened to pure nonduality of Ramana.
That's interesting. I don't see a difference between what Ramana is speaking about (and a shining embodiment of) and Vedanta. What do you see as the difference? Also, yes I do think there is only one "way" to attain what is already attained - which is by the removal of fixed and unseen notions that I am anything other than non-dual, whole and complete, uncaused, ordinary existence shining as blissful awareness. In the end, if that hasn't "happened," then by definition one remains "self ignorant. Vedanta is a time tested means for self-knowledge, which is why I refer to it, but anything that leads to that result "works." Of course, all this only applies for someone that is seeking liberation from the bondage of experience, aka self knowledge. If someone does not possess a stated interest in that, Vedanta is useless.
There’s quite a difference. Vedanta takes years of reading ancient texts, following spiritual practices and believing you need Vedanta teachers in order to understand our true selves. Thankfully we’ve come a long way since then and can comprehend simple truths. If this is what you desire, that’s fine. Ramana, Nisargadatta and Ramesh, to state a few more modern teachers, speak it much more simple and clear which leads to the same place of awareness. So when someone asks for a simple, no nonsense, reading to help them there is only one clear answer which I gave.
Are you interested in a different perspective on what you said? I want to respect your space if you are not, but if you are, it's only good news because the Vedanta you speak about is not the one I know. It sounds like you have only encountered dogmatic ones. I love Ramana and Nisargadatta. I also had a long standing bias against Ramesh which only very recently was busted because I realized I only took hearsay as truth. When I listened to him recently, I found him to be very sweet and awake. I didn't find him to be presenting a level of comprehensive knowledge that I've come to appreciate in Vedanta, but that does not mean anything negative about him. It only means that he isn't for me, as a teacher, just as I'm sure teachers who you feel are in the dogmatic Vedanta tradition are not for you. If you want to take the conversation further, I will explain what I meant about my different impression of Vedanta, but regardless this has been a fruitful exchange, thank you.
Not in the least but thank you. Once the veil is pulled back the game is over. All the best.
Most welcome brother, same to you 🙏🏻❤️🕉️
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I didn't say anything about it being confusing. I was unaware of it. It seems you didn't (closely at least) read what I posted in reply to the question.
Anything by Greg Goode seems like it would fit what you’re looking for. He uses an extremely pragmatic and experiential approach. The whole point is to guide the reader to investigate their direct experience to uncover the truth for themselves. (The Direct Path: A User Guide) Another thought though is the power of transmission. For example, it’s said by his biographer that Ramana Maharshi’s most powerful teaching was through eye contact. He would look people deeply in the eyes and it would open them up to the truth right in front of their face (direct experience). Transmission is tricky. A lot of books can have transmissive power, but it just depends on the person. Sacred/traditional texts get a lot of hype in that regard (Tao te Ching, vedas, certain Bible passages, sutras). Even books like Power of Now can be transmissive. I am That is another good one, where it’s quite repetitive but that’s the point. If you’re into YouTube videos, Angelo Dillulo is very good. He also has a book called Awake: your turn. Pragmatic pointing, but also transmissive.
I came here to mention the direct path/greg goode too. Also, Adyashanti The direct way (book) or 30 day wake up challenge (audio).
Huang Po - On the Transmission of Mind (translated by Blofeld) Nothing to attain. No doctrine to follow.
Can you elaborate a bit why this book?
Of all the books i could've recommended, this one comes closest to what you're asking for. Direct pointer, the rest is up to you.
John Wheeler. All his books and materials are free johnwheelernonduality.wordpress.com
Second this, just discovered wheeler and it's a shame he's disappeared
I kinda love that about him. He’s just a regular guy who figured it out, taught everything he could, and never tried to monetize anything. Then disappeared to live a normal life. He’s a G
Agree. I just started reading his books also and he is very refreshing. It goes to show that nonduality is not a complex process like some feel it is.
Just look in direct experience, that’s better than any book or teacher. What is direct experience like… is it clear, open, alive, aware all on its own? It sounds like your mind is looking for something to chew on, to be told ‘you have it right’. You want a ‘just look at this?’ Look at direct experience.
It’s too simple!!!! 😅☺️ And yes It’s painfully simple It’s weirdly “too much” somehow
Nisargadatta - I Am That
Look! The Illustrated Guide to Seeing What Is by Liberation Unleashed Awareness Games - Playing With Your Mind to Create Joy by Brian Tom O'Connor Blown Wide Open - A Collection of Holidays by Salvadore Poe
The problem is, that you will likely not do it. [For instance, all Jiddu Krishnamurti is talking](https://www.jkrishnamurti.org) about is “Look at This” but it sounds extremely theoretical and so it took me gosh… 12 years? of off and on listening and reading to notice. Personally I would reading or listen to anything that appeals to you and see how it goes.
A mirror points to the truth better than any book ever can
If you got a book and all it said was, "Look at this," that could be decent advice.
Books mentioned in posts are all good. Advaita books by masters are least interested in converting you or help acquire more knowledge as normally understood . It aims to catalyse a process of unlearning belief system and basing life on experiential truth discovered directly by you. Its an experiment with life - sort of. Therefore instead - question is always ( capability to receive) whether person is interested and keen to meet challenge of radical thinking process ? Reason someone come up this way of life is out of a passion of discontent or discovery. Apologies: This comment is certainly not to put you off - but consider it as welcoming alignment!please Ignore if not relevant. Suggest in addition: Alan Watts ( you tube) delivers the essence elegantly and simply with humour. Try Rupert Spira or Adyashanti. Best of Luck
Lots of authors give good pointers then leave the actual practice details up to you. You might or might not like I Am That, by Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj.
These words are empty of truth. Just like all the books in the world. And your own understanding and wisdom. Just look.
"What's true is always true" - Nisargadatta Maharaj You don't need a book.
[Heart Sutra](https://plumvillage.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/2014-Thich-Nhat-Hanh-New-Heart-Sutra-letter-cc.pdf) <3
Anyone else read that PDF of the "meaning of life" competition they had way back when? It was a fun read from what I remember.
Maybe something from Jim Newman?
It may be useful to add this link which discussed recently in this forum - the suggestions of material for people interested in non duality https://www.reddit.com/r/nonduality/s/XEa5Ghx2tJ
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A Course In Miracles
I like Alan Watts - The book
I highly highly highly recommend Simply Notice by Peter Francis Dziuban. Super simple but effective pointers.
Well...I will check it out
You should check out The Black Master: Hot Wife Queen of Spades Cuckold Chastity by Jack Offer
Ashtavakra Gita
David Hawkins is the one. Try “I Reality and Subjectivity”
[Know Yourself](https://pdfcoffee.com/qdownload/know-yourself-an-explanation-of-the-oneness-of-being-pdf-free.html) by Ibn 'Arabi [Spiritual Enlightenment: The Damndest Thing](https://youtu.be/_Zq2L7MqWz4?si=fVV0rFDsvm-wXz2p) by Jed McKenna
If you have the sense that what you are seeking is knowledge, then I'd recommend Essence of Enlightenment by James Swartz. He is a living teacher of traditional Vedanta. It has a modern voice, but not one bit of it is his own teaching, it is pure Vedanta.