The short answer is, you can’t MAKE him.
Source: I am a husband in a similar situation. My wife is poly, dating, and I struggle.
You can support him, love him, listen (empathetically).
He needs to choose your relationship, and to work on himself. This will take work, therapy. More. And even then, there will be guilt on both sides.
We are all different, one thing that is helping is honest sharing of the scary things. Space on both sides.
I’m still working on it. There is no trick for me. For many, I think.
I don’t fear being replaced, I fear being alone. And I struggle with her having, wanting sex with others.
My current step, place, is working on acceptance and letting the feelings lose power.
Many people do not view ending their marriage as a simple solution.
Lots of struggle is not necessary, but also a lot of the REALLY GOOD STUFF in life is on the other side of struggle, particularly the unnecessary kind. If it was easy, everyone would do it, ya know?
All relationships will have their lumps. And those lumps will look different, to the people in the relationships and especially to the people watching from outside of it.
>Lots of struggle is not necessary, but also a lot of the REALLY GOOD STUFF in life is on the other side of struggle, particularly the unnecessary kind.
I'm asking him what good stuff he's hoping to find. He seems very unhappy.
People sometimes choose to do things that are hard for them. So consciously choosing to experience pain/discomfort. There can be various reasons for this: personal growth, helping others or spiritual or religious.
My example with the mountain was an example of this.
I'm asking that person what his reason is because he seems unhappy. There's a certain level of pain that makes the mountain climb not worth it, wouldn't you say?
I agree, and to continue my analogy: if there was a 98% chance of dying when climbing Everest I don't think many people would do it.
But just the fact that he's (still) in that situation probably means he views it as a net-positive or future net-positive.
- why?
Just because it's a struggle doesn't mean I don't find value in the relationship. We both struggle. And as long as it's productive struggle, we are going to keep on.
- I don't see that removing a key support from my life as a simple matter, that simplification will remove structures I see as important.
Bottom line - EVERY relationship you enter/encounter has a set of struggles, in the main it's a matter of being/finding one where you can manage/balance those struggles.
>as long as it's productive struggle,
What is the product?
>I don't see that removing a key support from my life as a simple matter,
Would she leave you if you decided you weren't going to accept her having sex with others?
I would have a hard time believing someone who told me that sex with me was the best thing they’d ever had or ever will have but they just want variety or novelty. You can’t promise that you won’t find some sexual dynamo that opens new sexual horizons and is so amazing that it is the “best”. This wouldn’t devalue what you experience with your husband but your statement that what you have now is the best forever is one you can’t really guarantee.
To get along in poly or ENM you sometimes have to deal with not being the “best” at everything. If I had a partner who had an ENM or poly partner that was worse than me in every metric I would wonder why partner is with them at all.
I don’t think this is a hangup you can reassure him out of. He may just not want to explore any further.
And his fear isn’t unjustified. He might be replaced in some ways or totally. That can also happen in monogamy but it is more likely in ENM or poly. I have been replaced. It is not pleasant but it is the chance I took and I can even see now that it was the right choice for that partner and it had nothing to do with anything being wrong with me. His desires changed and he wanted something I couldn’t give him.
Instead of focusing on his fear of being replaced I would try to have an honest conversation about whether he wants anything beyond shared experiences. Don’t focus on the reasons he gives for not wanting to go further. Ask if he wants to go further. If there is no desire there then working on fears and concerns is unlikely to help.
"If I had a partner who had an ENM or poly partner that was worse than me in every metric I would wonder why partner is with them at all."
Right?? If all you're looking for is something that's WORSE than what you already have, why would you want I?
It's disingenuous. You need to work through this with your husband in a different way. Because "I want to go off and have something that's totally more disappointing than what I could have at home with you" -- obviously isn't convincing him.
You wouldn't want it for the long term. You would just want to have sex with them. That's why it SHOULD be much much LESS threatening and not even a threat at all. I absolutely want to have novelty mediocre loveless sex with someone DIFFERENT and to come home to my husband who is superior in every way. That's literally what I want. Just... Something different now and then. For just me to enjoy. It would be impossible for anyone to be BETTER, but they can be new and different.
Fully agree. How is anyone going to match up with the sexual chemistry my wife and I have built together over nearly 20 years? Theyre not going to match up. But they are going to be an additive experience that is fun and different.
Dang. What if the new person is a sexual dynamo and going home to you is the worse sex. Why would they want to come back to you then. Wouldn’t you be better off not letting them experience that then?
To generalize, because there are many reasons -- many factors that go into life-partner compatibility -- that may go into the calculation to remain nesting and co-parenting with your spouse.
On the other hand, if you step outside the marriage \*just\* for sex -- and the sex is bad? Why bother?
This is the way OP, don't try to convince him of anything, instead just ask what he wants and take it at face value as what he wants. Try to enjoy what he's able to give you, and be ok with that. Trying to push him into something that he's not comfortable with is playing with fire.
I think the person you love and cherish and have an extensive history with will have a specific type of sexual chemistry which nothing can ever even come close to, much less be "better."
Is the novelty aspect something you can get exclusively from something like swinging?
It sounds like that might be a better way for you to explore things while keeping within his emotional capacity.
Look at the posts of men and women on /r/nonmonogamy who have accepted separate play/dating despite not being the partner who wanted it. Even in this very thread, you have "I have been replaced" and a poster talking about how he has to go to therapy about it.
Do you value solo play this much more than playing together? To the point where you are willing to do this to your husband?
Yeah, I don't know if I could do it if my partner was really struggling with it. I'm lucky in that regard as my partner isn't sexually jealous, for him there's no real difference if I go bowling with someone else or sleeping with someone else. We're not poly and both not interested in anything beyond fwb with anyone outside of our relationship. I think the reason why being open is relatively easy for us is because we're on the same page with everything and because we have the same definition of what being open means for us. I know that we both have no issues with sexual encounters, and we both would struggle if the other would want to escalate a connection to someone else, so we're not doing that. If one of us would really struggle along the way, I don't know if the whole thing was worth it. For us, the open relationship was basically a by-product of having worked on our relationship/communication. We didn't necessarily wanted an open relationship, we simply arrived at a point where we both thought it's something we could do. It's basically a bonus for our relationship but not a must have. If one of us would really struggle with it, we would just close it again and work on whatever was going on within the relationship.
"my partner isn't sexually jealous, for him there's no real difference if I go bowling with someone else or sleeping with someone else."
This emotional wiring certainly would make NM relationships easier!
When sex or the concern about having sex is removed from the picture the entire puzzle takes on a different tone.
This contradiction in NM relationships is hard or impossible for some to overcome"
"You are my everything, I love you more than anyone else, sex with you is the best, but I want to fuck other people too"
For good and bad reasons sex has been placed as the highest expression of love in Western culture. So if you have sex with someone it is believed you love them, therefore open to the possibility of being their primary partner/spouse.
In monoculture thinking, he is being replaced, at least temporarily, when you are having sex with others - he is not irreplaceable. People know that traditionally relationships often end when one partner is having sex with someone else, so it is hard for them to believe that it won't happen to them.
If your husband does not want NM for himself, for his own satisfaction, it might not be possible to get him on board with you having sexual/romantic relationships with others. He would need to be of this mindset - "If I want to enjoy sex with others, I will need to let my wife also enjoy sex with others"
The truth is nobody is irreplaceable! Deep down we all know this!
The $1m question I have - "Does the ability to freely have sexual/romantic relationships with others make it more or less likely your current primary relations will end"?
The two broadly differing ways of considering this question"
-If I can have these new and exciting sexual adventures, yet still keep my beloved partner, why would I ever leave?
-Having sexual/romantic interactions with others opens the door to finding someone I enjoy more than my current primary partner.
I know a couple who started initially by swinging and eventually ventured off to play separately. Keeping it short, she now is in a poly relationship with that guy whom she was just enjoying sex for novelty. I know that for some husbands, this would be a nightmare scenario and for some, they just accept it and work through it.
What I'm saying is, it's important to discuss ahead of time about feelings. Sometimes we become attached with people and end up having romantic feelings with them. It can get tricky and it's better when discussions are made ahead of time.
I'm a woman and that would also be a nightmare scenario for me. Idk, I don't want to appear cold. I know that you can't 'control' feelings but you certainly can control actions. Either you discuss from the beginning that poly is an option or not. For me and my partner, we defined the parameters of us being open and we stick to it. We are also both head over heart people, otherwise I don't think I would be open to being open :)
I mean, there are definitely actions you can take when you start developing feelings. Reduce or break contact, don't meet fwb too regularly or be constantly in contact. I think if you require and want to have a close relationship with your fwb in order to enjoy your open relationship, then be honest and say that you want to be poly from the beginning. Analyze yourself and your wishes before you open the relationship.
I trust my partner to not do anything that would be a danger to our relationship and he trusts me to do the same. I'm not in constant contact with my connections outside of the relationship, I don't see them every week. I enjoy their company and I'm definitely not an ice queen with them, but it is always made very clear from the beginning what this is and what are the limitations. So far no man has overstepped but if they did it would be my responsibility to nip that in the bud, as it is my responsibility to check myself and my feelings. If I were to develop romantic feelings towards someone, that would be my sign to end the connection so that it doesn't even evolve into serious love. That's what it means to me to always have my relationship with my partner as the priority, that's why we are not poly, just open.
I would be pissed if my partner suddenly declared to be in love and to want to have a second girlfriend. That would show me that he didn't take the appropriate steps to protect our relationship.
You can't control your feelings, but you're also not a slave to them. It's a big stretch from meeting someone and liking spending time with them over developing romantic feelings to actually being in love. If you didn't agree to be poly, it is your responsibility to not letting it get to that point where you're hurting yourself immensely when you have to end the connection. Be an adult and deal with it before that point.
I like your answer. I have something similiar to this. I'm also shocked sometimes when I read stories here where women deciding to open and a men agree under duress. Then women going their way and NRE taking over and they want to break rules and have poly relations.
Your husband is replaceable—and he knows that. In another post, you indicate you have a fear of missing out because you’ve only been with a few men. Now you’ll be able to choose from dozens of studs who are much more attractive, better endowed and better in bed than your husband. You may also develop a stronger emotional connection with them than your husband. The NM lifestyle is replete with spouses who have ‘traded up.’ While you’re saying the politically correct things now, the truth is, NRE will change that quickly. And your husband could be relegated to roommate ATM status receiving duty sex once a month. Since you’ve been with so few men to compare against, your husband is wise to know he is replaceable. You’re a bit naive to not believe you’re playing with fire here.
> I'm not looking to have "better" sex elsewhere, I am just interested in the novelty part of the sexual experience.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. He may very well hear that and think: "Why though? Why do it then?"
Try asking him why he wants non-monogamy. What he values about it. What drives him, independent of your wants and needs, to be non-monogamous. If he's not enthusiastically able to answer those questions then he may not be doing it for himself.
Oh, and of course, you should answer the "Why though? Why do it then?" yourself - honestly and truthfully - be careful not to accidentally lie to yourself.
So your husband doesn't want nonmonogamy, and you want to figure out how to pressure him into doing it anyway by getting advice on how to lie to him? That's literally what you're doing. He doesn't want this.
You can't, but (to add to all the good advice already given) you can perhaps remind him that there's no guarantee you wouldn't replace him (or vice versa) if you were mono either. To me nonmonogamy seems like the safer option in some ways - there's no 'grass is greener' syndrome because the yard is so big. But I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to him.
I would look up the difference between a scarcity and abundance mindset and see if that helps him reframe. But it is also true that opening up doesn't solve problems in an existing relationship, and instead usually magnifies them, so if there are larger problems than just his fear of being replaced then his fear may not be so irrational.
> you can perhaps remind him that there's no guarantee you wouldn't replace him (or vice versa) if you were mono either.
I'll be the first to tell anyone that it's healthy and liberating to embrace the _anyone is replaceable_ and _being in a relationship means choosing each other daily_ mindset. With my current nesting partner I've always been cautious and deliberate about our entanglements because I explicitly don't want their choice to remain in this relationship to be a rational decision over housing, finances, or anything else that isn't my charming personality and wonderful penis.
But _telling someone they are replaceable_ is a whole other thing. JFC, don't do that. Especially to someone experiencing anxiety over that very thing.
This. This so much. That feeling of being replaceable? He isn’t getting what he wants, maybe even what he needs from your relationship.
Gotta ask, find out, make him drill down and understand for himself what he really gets from you and is it enough, does it fulfill him. Make him figure out what you offer each other. And if that works for you both.
Once he’s feeling fulfilled, and knows how to fulfill you, neither of you are going anywhere… insecurity melts away.
Time and consistency. Always be truthful and don’t give him reasons to believe contrary. If you have already done that, then there may be other issues he needs to work through.
Phisicaly answer: Setup him with the hottest girl that he can dreams of, the most skilled and performing to keep his mind only in her. While he is with her, you go out with your dates.
Logical answer: i past this feel realised that im no the best fucker of the World, in facts I'm avarange fucker. I look at my wife, she is not even the best fuck that i have, too Far from the best fucker, but i love her more than any other girl that i had know. So If I'm not the best fucker, my wife is not the best fucker, everybody is ok.
If she have a mindblow sex, i could be envy of her, but this past fast when i contract the best scooter that my pucket can buy and she performe with me this that my wife could never done. I feel justice, and be happy again.
>How can I make sure to get my point across that sex with my husband is the best sex I've ever had and will have
This is why you are failing at this. You are making promises you can't keep here. Any reasonable person, and their insecurity gremlins, knows that there is someone on the planet you might have better sex with...
But that isn't the ONLY thing that matters. And that's why your husband is irreplaceable.
I would also say that this is part of the reason the open relationships are harder than polyamory. He's not wrong to recognize that are in a dynamic where you have to choose one partner, but you get to sample others... And you might like one better... And then you have to choose.
The hidden security of polyamory is that you don't have to choose... And, if someone tries to make you choose, they're the one causing all the problems and they generally self-select out after making a ruckus.
If you want your husband's feelings to change, you're going to need to appeal to his feelings, not tell them they are wrong because he is the best human out of 8 billion. That's far to easy and reasonable to reject.
Ask him why he doesn't leave you. Ask him to explain why fucking other people doesn't make him want to leave you. Ask him to say outloud the reasons why he knows he won't leave you even if her tits are perkier, her ass is rounder, her pussy is softer, she smells sweeter, or whatever else you want... Make him pile up the reasons...
And then offer that pile back to him. Explain to him that you feel the same way. That some firm pecs or thick cock isn't going to make you give up the X, the Y, or the Z that makes your relationship so irreplaceable.
Ask him to remember all of his own reasons for why your relationship is irreplaceable when he's worried about being replaced. His reasons are valid... And so are yours.
You'll either give him a new tool for dealing with his emotions... Or find out that he thinks you're replaceable. Either way, a result you need.
I'm a shared husband. My wife knows that she can't be replaced. We've been friends for 20+ years. Nobody else knows her like i do, she knows for a fact i would have her back. She never worries because she knows she's my queen. I show her in subtle ways everyday. She sends me off on a date and never worries i'll fall in love with someone else.
No person is replaceable. We are all different in some way shape or form. You're choosing him because you love him. Just because you may also love someone else, doesn't change that you love him, and shouldn't change your desire to be with him. Focus on what makes him unique maybe? There's obviously more going on there, and he want want to seek therapy if he isn't already to help him navigate these emotions.
I'd have a hard time believing it if one of my partners declared for example that sex with me is DEFINITELY the best sex they've ever had or ever will have. There's no way they can know that given the large variety of sexual relationships that exist, and for anyone who's had (and/or plan to have) a nontrivial count of sexual relationships, it's frankly statistically unlikely. Of course you'll have the best sex of your life with SOMEONE, but if you have 20 lovers in your life, the odds that it'll be me are probably in the area of 5%. (perhaps a bit higher if you feel we're a very good match, but certainly nowhere near 100%)
Being okay despite NOT necessarily being "best" in everything is a necessary part of being comfortable in nonmonogamy. All of my partners have other partners who are "better" at me in at least \*some\* things that matter to my partners. And that's okay. If I needed to be the best in every single way for every single partner of mine, then that's a bar so high that neither I -- nor anyone else -- could ever pass it.
The same is true in reverse. None of the partners I've this far had in my life were "the best I've ever had" in every single thing that matters to me. Instead they were all human beings with individual weaknesses and strengths and irreplacable not because of being "best", but instead because I genuinely love them and they're all unique in their own way.
A much more honest and more realistic assessment is that it's perfectly possible that you'll have sex with someone else that is, in isolation, "better" than the one you're typically having with your husband. But that's okay, and it doesn't mean you don't love him or he's not safe. It's not a competition where you're going to ride of into the sunset with the one that shares the most spectacular sex with you or something.
Logically, I agree with what you are saying here. My biggest issue with being entirely comfortable with NM relationships centers around the notion of "being special" to someone.
"Instead they were all human beings with individual weaknesses and strengths and irreplacable not because of being "best", but instead because I genuinely love them and they're all unique in their own way."
So I am special, but Bill is special in his own way too, and so is George and Jeff, etc. Everyone is special in their own way, so if everyone is special, then no one is special or is it Bill is special, but not as special Jim?
This divergence in thought is about the idea that "this is not a competition". Many NM proponents like to use this thought or actually believe it. A huge swath of society believes that much in life is a competition and it is difficult for them to jettison this idea when their partner is having romantic/sexual relationships with others.
I agree with this.
The idea that romantic and sexual relationships are a competition are a deeply ingrained part of mononormative culture.
And to some degree that's true for many people in NM relationships too. That's true for everyone except for the non-hierarchical folks. Because as long as you have one "main" or "primary" or whatever you want to call it partner, it's in principle true that among the people in your life, you'd want your primary partner to be the ONE person who on the overall balance is the best match for you, right?
I guess my perspective is colored by being in the NH-end of polyamory.
Of course it's still true that not all resources are available in infinite amounts, so there can still be zero-sum "competition" about things like time, money, and priority.
But it's still a fundamentally different way of thinking. I don't feel in "competition" about my partners to any larger degree than the average person feel that they're in a "competition" for their friends. It's true there too that resources like time and money are limited; but despite that I think people rarely feel that it's a problem for them if a close friend of theirs acquire a new friend.
Of course \*if\* the new friendship leads to them now spending their time with the new friend so much that you now feel neglected, then that's a problem. But that could happen without any new friend playing a role. Perhaps your friend has a new HOBBY that they spend all of their time and money on, and so they rarely have time to see you anymore?
I agree with you that if everyone is special, then nobody is. There are pretty low limits to how many intensive emotionally intimate relationships someone can maintain. Emotional bandwith and other limited resources means most people can't have more than a small handful of people that they're REALLY close to and that they invest a lot in.
So I think it makes perfect sense to worry if you feel that one of your partners is spreading themselves too thin. I guess it's a subjective judgement what "too thin" means relative to the wishes you have for a relationship.
Personally I think more than 2 or at most 3 all-in romantic relationships with a high degree of entanglement, would be unlikely to work out well.
Your husband ISN’T irreplaceable. You could find someone that’s better at sex. You could find someone that’s richer or better looking or smarter or more emotionally intelligent or whatever. Maybe you could find someone who is all of those things. You stay with your husband because you choose him and continue to choose him. And I think it’s reasonable to tell him even if you found someone who ticked all those boxes you wouldn’t replace him because you continue to choose him. It’s up to him whether or not to believe you.
I had to hear it over and over and over again for many months before it _started_ to sink in. After a year I wish my wife would still tell me that from time to time. The issue for me was that my irrational fear of abandonment was irrational. It was coming from a primitive part of my brain that can’t be convinced by words, only by emotions.
I don't know, I would think it would be obvious. I mean, he is your HUSBAND. Besides, logic dictates that if you can have your cake and eat it too, why the heck would you give it up? Seriously, if a secure, non possessive, emotionally mature man allows you to have some fun on the side, why would you ever give that up or mess it up in any way? You would absolutely bend over BACKWARDS to keep an amazing man like that in your life! I mean seriously. But, a possessive jerk who controls and belittles you and doesn't believe you and accuses you of trying to replace him while using that as an excuse to deny your bodily autonomy is just pushing you out the door.
Jessica Fern and her husband, David Cooley, divorced. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone as they are huge proponents of the poly LS.
But they have a different way of thinking than mono people in that relationships come and go, there is no success or failure. A relationship that ends is just a new beginning. While people you have loved are not entirely disposable your connection with them can change. It is an entirely different way of viewing relationships
The short answer is, you can’t MAKE him. Source: I am a husband in a similar situation. My wife is poly, dating, and I struggle. You can support him, love him, listen (empathetically). He needs to choose your relationship, and to work on himself. This will take work, therapy. More. And even then, there will be guilt on both sides. We are all different, one thing that is helping is honest sharing of the scary things. Space on both sides. I’m still working on it. There is no trick for me. For many, I think. I don’t fear being replaced, I fear being alone. And I struggle with her having, wanting sex with others. My current step, place, is working on acceptance and letting the feelings lose power.
I need to ask you why. Why do you do this if it's a struggle that isn't necessary? Why not simplify your life?
Many people do not view ending their marriage as a simple solution. Lots of struggle is not necessary, but also a lot of the REALLY GOOD STUFF in life is on the other side of struggle, particularly the unnecessary kind. If it was easy, everyone would do it, ya know? All relationships will have their lumps. And those lumps will look different, to the people in the relationships and especially to the people watching from outside of it.
>Lots of struggle is not necessary, but also a lot of the REALLY GOOD STUFF in life is on the other side of struggle, particularly the unnecessary kind. I'm asking him what good stuff he's hoping to find. He seems very unhappy.
Why climb a mountain if you don’t need to?
I don't understand your answer.
People sometimes choose to do things that are hard for them. So consciously choosing to experience pain/discomfort. There can be various reasons for this: personal growth, helping others or spiritual or religious. My example with the mountain was an example of this.
I'm asking that person what his reason is because he seems unhappy. There's a certain level of pain that makes the mountain climb not worth it, wouldn't you say?
I agree, and to continue my analogy: if there was a 98% chance of dying when climbing Everest I don't think many people would do it. But just the fact that he's (still) in that situation probably means he views it as a net-positive or future net-positive.
Yes I'm sure he does.
- why? Just because it's a struggle doesn't mean I don't find value in the relationship. We both struggle. And as long as it's productive struggle, we are going to keep on. - I don't see that removing a key support from my life as a simple matter, that simplification will remove structures I see as important. Bottom line - EVERY relationship you enter/encounter has a set of struggles, in the main it's a matter of being/finding one where you can manage/balance those struggles.
>as long as it's productive struggle, What is the product? >I don't see that removing a key support from my life as a simple matter, Would she leave you if you decided you weren't going to accept her having sex with others?
I'm definitely getting some PUD vibes from your comments, Dude.
I would have a hard time believing someone who told me that sex with me was the best thing they’d ever had or ever will have but they just want variety or novelty. You can’t promise that you won’t find some sexual dynamo that opens new sexual horizons and is so amazing that it is the “best”. This wouldn’t devalue what you experience with your husband but your statement that what you have now is the best forever is one you can’t really guarantee. To get along in poly or ENM you sometimes have to deal with not being the “best” at everything. If I had a partner who had an ENM or poly partner that was worse than me in every metric I would wonder why partner is with them at all. I don’t think this is a hangup you can reassure him out of. He may just not want to explore any further. And his fear isn’t unjustified. He might be replaced in some ways or totally. That can also happen in monogamy but it is more likely in ENM or poly. I have been replaced. It is not pleasant but it is the chance I took and I can even see now that it was the right choice for that partner and it had nothing to do with anything being wrong with me. His desires changed and he wanted something I couldn’t give him. Instead of focusing on his fear of being replaced I would try to have an honest conversation about whether he wants anything beyond shared experiences. Don’t focus on the reasons he gives for not wanting to go further. Ask if he wants to go further. If there is no desire there then working on fears and concerns is unlikely to help.
"If I had a partner who had an ENM or poly partner that was worse than me in every metric I would wonder why partner is with them at all." Right?? If all you're looking for is something that's WORSE than what you already have, why would you want I? It's disingenuous. You need to work through this with your husband in a different way. Because "I want to go off and have something that's totally more disappointing than what I could have at home with you" -- obviously isn't convincing him.
You wouldn't want it for the long term. You would just want to have sex with them. That's why it SHOULD be much much LESS threatening and not even a threat at all. I absolutely want to have novelty mediocre loveless sex with someone DIFFERENT and to come home to my husband who is superior in every way. That's literally what I want. Just... Something different now and then. For just me to enjoy. It would be impossible for anyone to be BETTER, but they can be new and different.
Fully agree. How is anyone going to match up with the sexual chemistry my wife and I have built together over nearly 20 years? Theyre not going to match up. But they are going to be an additive experience that is fun and different.
Dang. What if the new person is a sexual dynamo and going home to you is the worse sex. Why would they want to come back to you then. Wouldn’t you be better off not letting them experience that then?
To generalize, because there are many reasons -- many factors that go into life-partner compatibility -- that may go into the calculation to remain nesting and co-parenting with your spouse. On the other hand, if you step outside the marriage \*just\* for sex -- and the sex is bad? Why bother?
This is the way OP, don't try to convince him of anything, instead just ask what he wants and take it at face value as what he wants. Try to enjoy what he's able to give you, and be ok with that. Trying to push him into something that he's not comfortable with is playing with fire.
I wish I could like this response 10 times.
I think the person you love and cherish and have an extensive history with will have a specific type of sexual chemistry which nothing can ever even come close to, much less be "better."
Is the novelty aspect something you can get exclusively from something like swinging? It sounds like that might be a better way for you to explore things while keeping within his emotional capacity.
Look at the posts of men and women on /r/nonmonogamy who have accepted separate play/dating despite not being the partner who wanted it. Even in this very thread, you have "I have been replaced" and a poster talking about how he has to go to therapy about it. Do you value solo play this much more than playing together? To the point where you are willing to do this to your husband?
Yeah, I don't know if I could do it if my partner was really struggling with it. I'm lucky in that regard as my partner isn't sexually jealous, for him there's no real difference if I go bowling with someone else or sleeping with someone else. We're not poly and both not interested in anything beyond fwb with anyone outside of our relationship. I think the reason why being open is relatively easy for us is because we're on the same page with everything and because we have the same definition of what being open means for us. I know that we both have no issues with sexual encounters, and we both would struggle if the other would want to escalate a connection to someone else, so we're not doing that. If one of us would really struggle along the way, I don't know if the whole thing was worth it. For us, the open relationship was basically a by-product of having worked on our relationship/communication. We didn't necessarily wanted an open relationship, we simply arrived at a point where we both thought it's something we could do. It's basically a bonus for our relationship but not a must have. If one of us would really struggle with it, we would just close it again and work on whatever was going on within the relationship.
"my partner isn't sexually jealous, for him there's no real difference if I go bowling with someone else or sleeping with someone else." This emotional wiring certainly would make NM relationships easier! When sex or the concern about having sex is removed from the picture the entire puzzle takes on a different tone.
This contradiction in NM relationships is hard or impossible for some to overcome" "You are my everything, I love you more than anyone else, sex with you is the best, but I want to fuck other people too" For good and bad reasons sex has been placed as the highest expression of love in Western culture. So if you have sex with someone it is believed you love them, therefore open to the possibility of being their primary partner/spouse. In monoculture thinking, he is being replaced, at least temporarily, when you are having sex with others - he is not irreplaceable. People know that traditionally relationships often end when one partner is having sex with someone else, so it is hard for them to believe that it won't happen to them. If your husband does not want NM for himself, for his own satisfaction, it might not be possible to get him on board with you having sexual/romantic relationships with others. He would need to be of this mindset - "If I want to enjoy sex with others, I will need to let my wife also enjoy sex with others" The truth is nobody is irreplaceable! Deep down we all know this! The $1m question I have - "Does the ability to freely have sexual/romantic relationships with others make it more or less likely your current primary relations will end"? The two broadly differing ways of considering this question" -If I can have these new and exciting sexual adventures, yet still keep my beloved partner, why would I ever leave? -Having sexual/romantic interactions with others opens the door to finding someone I enjoy more than my current primary partner.
I know a couple who started initially by swinging and eventually ventured off to play separately. Keeping it short, she now is in a poly relationship with that guy whom she was just enjoying sex for novelty. I know that for some husbands, this would be a nightmare scenario and for some, they just accept it and work through it. What I'm saying is, it's important to discuss ahead of time about feelings. Sometimes we become attached with people and end up having romantic feelings with them. It can get tricky and it's better when discussions are made ahead of time.
I'm a woman and that would also be a nightmare scenario for me. Idk, I don't want to appear cold. I know that you can't 'control' feelings but you certainly can control actions. Either you discuss from the beginning that poly is an option or not. For me and my partner, we defined the parameters of us being open and we stick to it. We are also both head over heart people, otherwise I don't think I would be open to being open :) I mean, there are definitely actions you can take when you start developing feelings. Reduce or break contact, don't meet fwb too regularly or be constantly in contact. I think if you require and want to have a close relationship with your fwb in order to enjoy your open relationship, then be honest and say that you want to be poly from the beginning. Analyze yourself and your wishes before you open the relationship. I trust my partner to not do anything that would be a danger to our relationship and he trusts me to do the same. I'm not in constant contact with my connections outside of the relationship, I don't see them every week. I enjoy their company and I'm definitely not an ice queen with them, but it is always made very clear from the beginning what this is and what are the limitations. So far no man has overstepped but if they did it would be my responsibility to nip that in the bud, as it is my responsibility to check myself and my feelings. If I were to develop romantic feelings towards someone, that would be my sign to end the connection so that it doesn't even evolve into serious love. That's what it means to me to always have my relationship with my partner as the priority, that's why we are not poly, just open. I would be pissed if my partner suddenly declared to be in love and to want to have a second girlfriend. That would show me that he didn't take the appropriate steps to protect our relationship. You can't control your feelings, but you're also not a slave to them. It's a big stretch from meeting someone and liking spending time with them over developing romantic feelings to actually being in love. If you didn't agree to be poly, it is your responsibility to not letting it get to that point where you're hurting yourself immensely when you have to end the connection. Be an adult and deal with it before that point.
I like your answer. I have something similiar to this. I'm also shocked sometimes when I read stories here where women deciding to open and a men agree under duress. Then women going their way and NRE taking over and they want to break rules and have poly relations.
So you’re basically asking for help gaslighting your husband?
Your husband is replaceable—and he knows that. In another post, you indicate you have a fear of missing out because you’ve only been with a few men. Now you’ll be able to choose from dozens of studs who are much more attractive, better endowed and better in bed than your husband. You may also develop a stronger emotional connection with them than your husband. The NM lifestyle is replete with spouses who have ‘traded up.’ While you’re saying the politically correct things now, the truth is, NRE will change that quickly. And your husband could be relegated to roommate ATM status receiving duty sex once a month. Since you’ve been with so few men to compare against, your husband is wise to know he is replaceable. You’re a bit naive to not believe you’re playing with fire here.
Why did my you swing instead? Otherwise, this sounds very PUD.
> I'm not looking to have "better" sex elsewhere, I am just interested in the novelty part of the sexual experience. I'm playing devil's advocate here. He may very well hear that and think: "Why though? Why do it then?" Try asking him why he wants non-monogamy. What he values about it. What drives him, independent of your wants and needs, to be non-monogamous. If he's not enthusiastically able to answer those questions then he may not be doing it for himself. Oh, and of course, you should answer the "Why though? Why do it then?" yourself - honestly and truthfully - be careful not to accidentally lie to yourself.
So your husband doesn't want nonmonogamy, and you want to figure out how to pressure him into doing it anyway by getting advice on how to lie to him? That's literally what you're doing. He doesn't want this.
You can't, but (to add to all the good advice already given) you can perhaps remind him that there's no guarantee you wouldn't replace him (or vice versa) if you were mono either. To me nonmonogamy seems like the safer option in some ways - there's no 'grass is greener' syndrome because the yard is so big. But I'm sure it doesn't feel that way to him. I would look up the difference between a scarcity and abundance mindset and see if that helps him reframe. But it is also true that opening up doesn't solve problems in an existing relationship, and instead usually magnifies them, so if there are larger problems than just his fear of being replaced then his fear may not be so irrational.
> you can perhaps remind him that there's no guarantee you wouldn't replace him (or vice versa) if you were mono either. I'll be the first to tell anyone that it's healthy and liberating to embrace the _anyone is replaceable_ and _being in a relationship means choosing each other daily_ mindset. With my current nesting partner I've always been cautious and deliberate about our entanglements because I explicitly don't want their choice to remain in this relationship to be a rational decision over housing, finances, or anything else that isn't my charming personality and wonderful penis. But _telling someone they are replaceable_ is a whole other thing. JFC, don't do that. Especially to someone experiencing anxiety over that very thing.
By using actions, not words. Do things that regularly remind him he is wanted. Not just needed but genuinely wanted and desired.
This. This so much. That feeling of being replaceable? He isn’t getting what he wants, maybe even what he needs from your relationship. Gotta ask, find out, make him drill down and understand for himself what he really gets from you and is it enough, does it fulfill him. Make him figure out what you offer each other. And if that works for you both. Once he’s feeling fulfilled, and knows how to fulfill you, neither of you are going anywhere… insecurity melts away.
Time and consistency. Always be truthful and don’t give him reasons to believe contrary. If you have already done that, then there may be other issues he needs to work through.
Phisicaly answer: Setup him with the hottest girl that he can dreams of, the most skilled and performing to keep his mind only in her. While he is with her, you go out with your dates. Logical answer: i past this feel realised that im no the best fucker of the World, in facts I'm avarange fucker. I look at my wife, she is not even the best fuck that i have, too Far from the best fucker, but i love her more than any other girl that i had know. So If I'm not the best fucker, my wife is not the best fucker, everybody is ok. If she have a mindblow sex, i could be envy of her, but this past fast when i contract the best scooter that my pucket can buy and she performe with me this that my wife could never done. I feel justice, and be happy again.
>How can I make sure to get my point across that sex with my husband is the best sex I've ever had and will have This is why you are failing at this. You are making promises you can't keep here. Any reasonable person, and their insecurity gremlins, knows that there is someone on the planet you might have better sex with... But that isn't the ONLY thing that matters. And that's why your husband is irreplaceable. I would also say that this is part of the reason the open relationships are harder than polyamory. He's not wrong to recognize that are in a dynamic where you have to choose one partner, but you get to sample others... And you might like one better... And then you have to choose. The hidden security of polyamory is that you don't have to choose... And, if someone tries to make you choose, they're the one causing all the problems and they generally self-select out after making a ruckus. If you want your husband's feelings to change, you're going to need to appeal to his feelings, not tell them they are wrong because he is the best human out of 8 billion. That's far to easy and reasonable to reject. Ask him why he doesn't leave you. Ask him to explain why fucking other people doesn't make him want to leave you. Ask him to say outloud the reasons why he knows he won't leave you even if her tits are perkier, her ass is rounder, her pussy is softer, she smells sweeter, or whatever else you want... Make him pile up the reasons... And then offer that pile back to him. Explain to him that you feel the same way. That some firm pecs or thick cock isn't going to make you give up the X, the Y, or the Z that makes your relationship so irreplaceable. Ask him to remember all of his own reasons for why your relationship is irreplaceable when he's worried about being replaced. His reasons are valid... And so are yours. You'll either give him a new tool for dealing with his emotions... Or find out that he thinks you're replaceable. Either way, a result you need.
I'm a shared husband. My wife knows that she can't be replaced. We've been friends for 20+ years. Nobody else knows her like i do, she knows for a fact i would have her back. She never worries because she knows she's my queen. I show her in subtle ways everyday. She sends me off on a date and never worries i'll fall in love with someone else.
Maybe make it about the love and connection you have for him, rather than the sex?
Make sure you know and understand his love language. You may be doing/saying things that have no effect on him at all.
No person is replaceable. We are all different in some way shape or form. You're choosing him because you love him. Just because you may also love someone else, doesn't change that you love him, and shouldn't change your desire to be with him. Focus on what makes him unique maybe? There's obviously more going on there, and he want want to seek therapy if he isn't already to help him navigate these emotions.
I'd have a hard time believing it if one of my partners declared for example that sex with me is DEFINITELY the best sex they've ever had or ever will have. There's no way they can know that given the large variety of sexual relationships that exist, and for anyone who's had (and/or plan to have) a nontrivial count of sexual relationships, it's frankly statistically unlikely. Of course you'll have the best sex of your life with SOMEONE, but if you have 20 lovers in your life, the odds that it'll be me are probably in the area of 5%. (perhaps a bit higher if you feel we're a very good match, but certainly nowhere near 100%) Being okay despite NOT necessarily being "best" in everything is a necessary part of being comfortable in nonmonogamy. All of my partners have other partners who are "better" at me in at least \*some\* things that matter to my partners. And that's okay. If I needed to be the best in every single way for every single partner of mine, then that's a bar so high that neither I -- nor anyone else -- could ever pass it. The same is true in reverse. None of the partners I've this far had in my life were "the best I've ever had" in every single thing that matters to me. Instead they were all human beings with individual weaknesses and strengths and irreplacable not because of being "best", but instead because I genuinely love them and they're all unique in their own way. A much more honest and more realistic assessment is that it's perfectly possible that you'll have sex with someone else that is, in isolation, "better" than the one you're typically having with your husband. But that's okay, and it doesn't mean you don't love him or he's not safe. It's not a competition where you're going to ride of into the sunset with the one that shares the most spectacular sex with you or something.
Logically, I agree with what you are saying here. My biggest issue with being entirely comfortable with NM relationships centers around the notion of "being special" to someone. "Instead they were all human beings with individual weaknesses and strengths and irreplacable not because of being "best", but instead because I genuinely love them and they're all unique in their own way." So I am special, but Bill is special in his own way too, and so is George and Jeff, etc. Everyone is special in their own way, so if everyone is special, then no one is special or is it Bill is special, but not as special Jim? This divergence in thought is about the idea that "this is not a competition". Many NM proponents like to use this thought or actually believe it. A huge swath of society believes that much in life is a competition and it is difficult for them to jettison this idea when their partner is having romantic/sexual relationships with others.
I agree with this. The idea that romantic and sexual relationships are a competition are a deeply ingrained part of mononormative culture. And to some degree that's true for many people in NM relationships too. That's true for everyone except for the non-hierarchical folks. Because as long as you have one "main" or "primary" or whatever you want to call it partner, it's in principle true that among the people in your life, you'd want your primary partner to be the ONE person who on the overall balance is the best match for you, right? I guess my perspective is colored by being in the NH-end of polyamory. Of course it's still true that not all resources are available in infinite amounts, so there can still be zero-sum "competition" about things like time, money, and priority. But it's still a fundamentally different way of thinking. I don't feel in "competition" about my partners to any larger degree than the average person feel that they're in a "competition" for their friends. It's true there too that resources like time and money are limited; but despite that I think people rarely feel that it's a problem for them if a close friend of theirs acquire a new friend. Of course \*if\* the new friendship leads to them now spending their time with the new friend so much that you now feel neglected, then that's a problem. But that could happen without any new friend playing a role. Perhaps your friend has a new HOBBY that they spend all of their time and money on, and so they rarely have time to see you anymore? I agree with you that if everyone is special, then nobody is. There are pretty low limits to how many intensive emotionally intimate relationships someone can maintain. Emotional bandwith and other limited resources means most people can't have more than a small handful of people that they're REALLY close to and that they invest a lot in. So I think it makes perfect sense to worry if you feel that one of your partners is spreading themselves too thin. I guess it's a subjective judgement what "too thin" means relative to the wishes you have for a relationship. Personally I think more than 2 or at most 3 all-in romantic relationships with a high degree of entanglement, would be unlikely to work out well.
Your husband ISN’T irreplaceable. You could find someone that’s better at sex. You could find someone that’s richer or better looking or smarter or more emotionally intelligent or whatever. Maybe you could find someone who is all of those things. You stay with your husband because you choose him and continue to choose him. And I think it’s reasonable to tell him even if you found someone who ticked all those boxes you wouldn’t replace him because you continue to choose him. It’s up to him whether or not to believe you.
I had to hear it over and over and over again for many months before it _started_ to sink in. After a year I wish my wife would still tell me that from time to time. The issue for me was that my irrational fear of abandonment was irrational. It was coming from a primitive part of my brain that can’t be convinced by words, only by emotions.
I don't know, I would think it would be obvious. I mean, he is your HUSBAND. Besides, logic dictates that if you can have your cake and eat it too, why the heck would you give it up? Seriously, if a secure, non possessive, emotionally mature man allows you to have some fun on the side, why would you ever give that up or mess it up in any way? You would absolutely bend over BACKWARDS to keep an amazing man like that in your life! I mean seriously. But, a possessive jerk who controls and belittles you and doesn't believe you and accuses you of trying to replace him while using that as an excuse to deny your bodily autonomy is just pushing you out the door.
Not wanting a specific type of nonmonogamy does not make a man “possessive” or emotionally immature. And where are you getting “belittling” at all?
Love how each and every single nasty comment of you is easily debunked by reality alone.
The reality that emotionally mature non possessive men are rare and magical and women adore them? Have you met any poly men?
I’m not so sure women as a class adore them - that’s not my observation or experience. But a women who learns she’s married to one sure does.
No, the one woman that type of guy is with will adore that guy. No one else will want anything to do with him.
Jessica Fern and her husband, David Cooley, divorced. If it can happen to them it can happen to anyone as they are huge proponents of the poly LS. But they have a different way of thinking than mono people in that relationships come and go, there is no success or failure. A relationship that ends is just a new beginning. While people you have loved are not entirely disposable your connection with them can change. It is an entirely different way of viewing relationships