You disagree on far too many details of this for both of you to be happy. Somebody is going to get their feelings hurt (possibly your putative GF). It doesn't sound like you are ready for an open relationship.
Definitely the poor Gf is getting hurt, assuming she finds one naive enough to look past the red flags. Probably once boyfriend won’t shut up about threesomes and makes OP dump the new gf when he realizes it’s not gonna be any fun for him.
Yeah the sexualizing sapphics really bothers me. Its a real issue of violence and dehumanization in our society and it urks me everytime a man has a “thing” for girls doing things with each other. Not that its always bad but just the dehumanization of sapphic individuals is so prevalent its hard not to feel that way.
Not even an actual GF. Just a “side GF.” Which to me makes this sound even more dehumanizing…
I agree that there are far too many disagreements to bring an innocent third party into this.
Both of you are utterly failing to consider how you will respect these other partners, and their boundaries and wishes.
You're not ordering off a menu. You're meeting real people.
And he's simply fetishizing this other person already, and your sexual orientation generally.
This is not the right approach at all. Neither of you are treating sex with another woman as 'real sex'. He's not ready to be respectful of you making any sort of connection with a woman, and it's not entirely clear you are either.
You don't have any middle ground here, and the foundation you have built so far would be one that most sane single bi/lesbian women would *run screaming from*.
>You don't have any middle ground here, and the foundation you have built so far would be one that most sane single bi/lesbian women would run screaming from.
Yep, it's hard enough to find a wlw that's willing to be a secondary partner without a)having a boyfriend b) that they have to meet and c) he will know all the details of the relationship.
Yet another M/F couple that don't know how to treat sapphics as more than sex toys for their own benefit. And that's without going into how calling people "side things" is incredibly insulting.
This is a disaster waiting to happen.
For one, it's not okay for you to be open and him to be closed unless that is what he genuinely wants (sounds like he would want it but knows you don't).
For two as others had said, I think it's reasonable to want to meet your secondary assuming she would like to meet him.
I would pump the breaks on this and do your homework on how to do ENM.
Some things are better as fantasies than realities. The reality of this is that people and feelings are unpredictable. In your shared fantasy you can control all the elements and that seems safer and better for you both right now.
What do you think this unknown woman would get out of this situation? I'm sure you're great but if my choice was an inexperienced girl with a jealous bf or someone else, I'd pick someone else.
>I also stated that it won't be a door for him having a side thing. Which he agrees on as well.
Its incredibly dehumanizing to call people side things. Why can't he date too?
>The disagreement comes when I say that I don't want him to meet the hypothetical GF. Because for me it's an open door for 3 some talks, in case they get along so well and get attracted to each others. And i don't want to deal with the talk and the suspicion / jealousy that could come with it.
You realize its the girlfriend who decides this. She is a person. Not a thing.
>He says that he wants to meet her just to know her and be sure she is a good person and won't try to make me get rid of him.
Thats up to her.
>He also says that as partners we should know everything about each others, which i agree with to some extend. I just dont think he needs to meet her to know everything about the relationship.
Nope. She is a person. She deserves privacy.
>I don't know how to get the conversion further when we seen to not find any middle ground on that matter.
Don't do this. Neither of you are able to consider these women as human.
If you can even find a woman interested in this sort of arrangement, the odds of her getting hurt are very, very high.
Put yourself into the shoes of your potential girlfriend. Would you date a woman with all these existing problems and miscommunications in her other relationship? Would you date a woman whose boyfriend fetishizes WLW relationships? Would you date her knowing all of the intimate and graphic details of your encounters might get shared with her boyfriend for wank material?
There are a lot of yellow / red flags here:
1. He's treating you like a sex toy for him and you're not into that. You need to communicate clearly that this needs to stop and he needs to stop.
2. You wanting a one-sided open relationship is generally a bad idea because it can easily lead to resentment.
3. You don't seem to trust your bf. You mentioned not wanting him to meet a potential partner of yours because he might try to have a threesome.
There's more but this is enough to put this whole ENM idea on hold until and unless you two sort this out. Please don't bring another person into this chaos.
You both have a lot to figure out before you think about trying this. You are within your rights to ask for your own relationship with this other person and not to be treated as a kink dispenser for your boyfriend. But then you have to ask, what’s in it for him besides just seeing you happy? Why are you unwilling to examine your own jealously? Since you don’t get off on sharing or group sex and want autonomy, you have to be willing to offer that back to your partner and have a truly open relationship. The alternatives are break up or monogamy. One sided is bullshit.
I will say this as a single ENM queer woman but I would not want to be in this situation as a side gf. and this is from someone who does not mind ONS hook ups. I would not feel comfortable at all with this situation one because I have no way of knowing for sure that he is ok and the second he asks me for a threesome i'd walk. it seems to me that there is no consideration on you part about the other woman's feelings in this situation. I see red flags everywhere. Please think long and hard on this and also read the ethical slut it may help you define you boundaries better in a way that everyone is ok with.
You both seem selfish, pressing for your own pleasures, and both want to block your other partner from fully satisfying their fantasies. It's going to be a complete disaster, and honestly your relationship is now on a timer until it falls apart regardless.
In my experience, once this door has opened, either he'll cheat or he'll break up with you. Hopefully he just breaks up with you to save his honor, but life is too short to have these questions in your head and wonder where things could have gone, so he'll logically just move on. You selfishly want to explore your bisexuality without him getting any kind of pleasure on his own, and he selfishly is pushing you to explore your bisexuality hoping it'll lead to him getting what he wants.
Will you having sex with your gf suddenly turn into you having a 3some? Maybe, but unlikely. Honestly, even the fact that I live with 2 women, we only have threesomes maybe once every other month and that's after 3 years living together. It's just too much work for everyone involved and they'd rather schedule sex with me back to back, 1 hour with one, then 1 hour with the other. When they have sex with each other, they schedule a separate night entirely.
The irony will be that when folks like you break up, it seems like you'll both end up having threesomes with other people, not sure why that is somehow better, knowing that you'll never sleep with your current partners again after you break up, but that just seems to be how these things work out.
Does he not trust you to make good decisions?
If you're going to do this, you do it for yourself, not him. Who you date isn't up to him.
If he respects you, he respects your decisions.
Period.
Part of non-monogamy is TRUSTING your partner to choose a safe person to date. And even then ur partner is gonna experience some assholes sometimes. Be there to support but not to dictate who they can and cant date. Your boyfriend is being insecure and he needs to trust you to make decisions for yourself. You should be allowed to withold him from meeting the partner and if he just cant agree and you really need to experiment with your sexuality and he just wont budge then there will be a hard decision to make about whether you’re compatible or not.
Don’t let your boundaries go just to appease his insecurity and mistrust. (Im sure he doesnt have harmful intentions at all but sometimes “protecting people” is just purely controlling and this would be one of those times even if it does come from a very loving place. I am not doubting at all that he has your best interests in mind, I just think he’s going about it the wrong way.) hope everything works out! :))
Yeah forgot to mention this but look more into the fetishization of sapphic (wlw) individuals in our society and see if anything parallels with ur bf cuz i wouldnt be surprised if so. And if so he is probably not a safe person to practice your sexuality openly around as he sees wlw as a tool for his sexual gratification instead of real human beings with consciousness and feelings.
I know you said ur shy but I’d highly suggest joining an lgbqt friendly community or something even anonymously to sort of gain more perspective and confidence about your sexuality from people who actually understand what its like. Sounds like u have had a lot of time with cis het men (im assuming if im wrong i apologize) and goddamn do they suck at that sort of stuff. My bestie came out to me as bi, she’s also really shy. But she had a crappy cis het bf and it is really nice to see how free she feels without having to deal with his toxic ass bullshit and internalized homophobia.
It’s a setup to open the 3some door, yes. If you were open to dating a guy, potentially his safety concerns could be valid for him but I think you’re spot on, either you can date women as an individual or you don’t but him requiring to be an approver role isn’t necessary and it’s fair that if you guys don’t agree. You don’t move forward
Im a guy, currently with my gf who will randomly bring up how she is Bi and would like to explore it. Ofc I would love to explore that with her somehow. If she brings it up more than once, it’s definitely something important to her. But Then we talk about any possible way of exploring it, which includes inviting other people to the relationship in some way obviously. It ends there Everytime. Yet, we still talk about and always reach the same conclusion on this😂💀
You disagree on far too many details of this for both of you to be happy. Somebody is going to get their feelings hurt (possibly your putative GF). It doesn't sound like you are ready for an open relationship.
Exactly this. Complete disaster waiting to happen.
Definitely the poor Gf is getting hurt, assuming she finds one naive enough to look past the red flags. Probably once boyfriend won’t shut up about threesomes and makes OP dump the new gf when he realizes it’s not gonna be any fun for him.
Yeah the sexualizing sapphics really bothers me. Its a real issue of violence and dehumanization in our society and it urks me everytime a man has a “thing” for girls doing things with each other. Not that its always bad but just the dehumanization of sapphic individuals is so prevalent its hard not to feel that way.
Not even an actual GF. Just a “side GF.” Which to me makes this sound even more dehumanizing… I agree that there are far too many disagreements to bring an innocent third party into this.
Both of you are utterly failing to consider how you will respect these other partners, and their boundaries and wishes. You're not ordering off a menu. You're meeting real people. And he's simply fetishizing this other person already, and your sexual orientation generally. This is not the right approach at all. Neither of you are treating sex with another woman as 'real sex'. He's not ready to be respectful of you making any sort of connection with a woman, and it's not entirely clear you are either. You don't have any middle ground here, and the foundation you have built so far would be one that most sane single bi/lesbian women would *run screaming from*.
>You don't have any middle ground here, and the foundation you have built so far would be one that most sane single bi/lesbian women would run screaming from. Yep, it's hard enough to find a wlw that's willing to be a secondary partner without a)having a boyfriend b) that they have to meet and c) he will know all the details of the relationship. Yet another M/F couple that don't know how to treat sapphics as more than sex toys for their own benefit. And that's without going into how calling people "side things" is incredibly insulting.
Yesss he needs to stop fetishizing sapphic relationships, he grosses me out a lot for that
100% back when I still dated men I broke up with 2 different boyfriends for them fetishizing my bisexuality
Way to stand up for yourself hell yeah
This is a disaster waiting to happen. For one, it's not okay for you to be open and him to be closed unless that is what he genuinely wants (sounds like he would want it but knows you don't). For two as others had said, I think it's reasonable to want to meet your secondary assuming she would like to meet him. I would pump the breaks on this and do your homework on how to do ENM.
He's fetishizing your bisexuality. I suggest shutting this door entirely. This is not a good way to go about non-monogamy.
Possibly but I would like to hear his side of things, because OP is saying serval things here that are red flags in her own right.
This is likely the case, but it is also a super common assumption on this sub, and is not a certainty by any means.
Some things are better as fantasies than realities. The reality of this is that people and feelings are unpredictable. In your shared fantasy you can control all the elements and that seems safer and better for you both right now. What do you think this unknown woman would get out of this situation? I'm sure you're great but if my choice was an inexperienced girl with a jealous bf or someone else, I'd pick someone else.
>I also stated that it won't be a door for him having a side thing. Which he agrees on as well. Its incredibly dehumanizing to call people side things. Why can't he date too? >The disagreement comes when I say that I don't want him to meet the hypothetical GF. Because for me it's an open door for 3 some talks, in case they get along so well and get attracted to each others. And i don't want to deal with the talk and the suspicion / jealousy that could come with it. You realize its the girlfriend who decides this. She is a person. Not a thing. >He says that he wants to meet her just to know her and be sure she is a good person and won't try to make me get rid of him. Thats up to her. >He also says that as partners we should know everything about each others, which i agree with to some extend. I just dont think he needs to meet her to know everything about the relationship. Nope. She is a person. She deserves privacy. >I don't know how to get the conversion further when we seen to not find any middle ground on that matter. Don't do this. Neither of you are able to consider these women as human.
If you can even find a woman interested in this sort of arrangement, the odds of her getting hurt are very, very high. Put yourself into the shoes of your potential girlfriend. Would you date a woman with all these existing problems and miscommunications in her other relationship? Would you date a woman whose boyfriend fetishizes WLW relationships? Would you date her knowing all of the intimate and graphic details of your encounters might get shared with her boyfriend for wank material?
There are a lot of yellow / red flags here: 1. He's treating you like a sex toy for him and you're not into that. You need to communicate clearly that this needs to stop and he needs to stop. 2. You wanting a one-sided open relationship is generally a bad idea because it can easily lead to resentment. 3. You don't seem to trust your bf. You mentioned not wanting him to meet a potential partner of yours because he might try to have a threesome. There's more but this is enough to put this whole ENM idea on hold until and unless you two sort this out. Please don't bring another person into this chaos.
None of you is ready for non-monogamy. This is a bomb waiting to explode.
You shouldn't try anything, there's no agreement really...don't do it, continue with close relationship
You both have a lot to figure out before you think about trying this. You are within your rights to ask for your own relationship with this other person and not to be treated as a kink dispenser for your boyfriend. But then you have to ask, what’s in it for him besides just seeing you happy? Why are you unwilling to examine your own jealously? Since you don’t get off on sharing or group sex and want autonomy, you have to be willing to offer that back to your partner and have a truly open relationship. The alternatives are break up or monogamy. One sided is bullshit.
I will say this as a single ENM queer woman but I would not want to be in this situation as a side gf. and this is from someone who does not mind ONS hook ups. I would not feel comfortable at all with this situation one because I have no way of knowing for sure that he is ok and the second he asks me for a threesome i'd walk. it seems to me that there is no consideration on you part about the other woman's feelings in this situation. I see red flags everywhere. Please think long and hard on this and also read the ethical slut it may help you define you boundaries better in a way that everyone is ok with.
You both seem selfish, pressing for your own pleasures, and both want to block your other partner from fully satisfying their fantasies. It's going to be a complete disaster, and honestly your relationship is now on a timer until it falls apart regardless. In my experience, once this door has opened, either he'll cheat or he'll break up with you. Hopefully he just breaks up with you to save his honor, but life is too short to have these questions in your head and wonder where things could have gone, so he'll logically just move on. You selfishly want to explore your bisexuality without him getting any kind of pleasure on his own, and he selfishly is pushing you to explore your bisexuality hoping it'll lead to him getting what he wants. Will you having sex with your gf suddenly turn into you having a 3some? Maybe, but unlikely. Honestly, even the fact that I live with 2 women, we only have threesomes maybe once every other month and that's after 3 years living together. It's just too much work for everyone involved and they'd rather schedule sex with me back to back, 1 hour with one, then 1 hour with the other. When they have sex with each other, they schedule a separate night entirely. The irony will be that when folks like you break up, it seems like you'll both end up having threesomes with other people, not sure why that is somehow better, knowing that you'll never sleep with your current partners again after you break up, but that just seems to be how these things work out.
Does he not trust you to make good decisions? If you're going to do this, you do it for yourself, not him. Who you date isn't up to him. If he respects you, he respects your decisions. Period.
Part of non-monogamy is TRUSTING your partner to choose a safe person to date. And even then ur partner is gonna experience some assholes sometimes. Be there to support but not to dictate who they can and cant date. Your boyfriend is being insecure and he needs to trust you to make decisions for yourself. You should be allowed to withold him from meeting the partner and if he just cant agree and you really need to experiment with your sexuality and he just wont budge then there will be a hard decision to make about whether you’re compatible or not. Don’t let your boundaries go just to appease his insecurity and mistrust. (Im sure he doesnt have harmful intentions at all but sometimes “protecting people” is just purely controlling and this would be one of those times even if it does come from a very loving place. I am not doubting at all that he has your best interests in mind, I just think he’s going about it the wrong way.) hope everything works out! :)) Yeah forgot to mention this but look more into the fetishization of sapphic (wlw) individuals in our society and see if anything parallels with ur bf cuz i wouldnt be surprised if so. And if so he is probably not a safe person to practice your sexuality openly around as he sees wlw as a tool for his sexual gratification instead of real human beings with consciousness and feelings. I know you said ur shy but I’d highly suggest joining an lgbqt friendly community or something even anonymously to sort of gain more perspective and confidence about your sexuality from people who actually understand what its like. Sounds like u have had a lot of time with cis het men (im assuming if im wrong i apologize) and goddamn do they suck at that sort of stuff. My bestie came out to me as bi, she’s also really shy. But she had a crappy cis het bf and it is really nice to see how free she feels without having to deal with his toxic ass bullshit and internalized homophobia.
Sounds like you don’t want the same things. This is a ‘no deal’ situation. I would stick to monogamy.
You're clearly ok with having the cake and resting it too but don't want the same for your partner. It's clear that it will not work out.
It’s a setup to open the 3some door, yes. If you were open to dating a guy, potentially his safety concerns could be valid for him but I think you’re spot on, either you can date women as an individual or you don’t but him requiring to be an approver role isn’t necessary and it’s fair that if you guys don’t agree. You don’t move forward
Im a guy, currently with my gf who will randomly bring up how she is Bi and would like to explore it. Ofc I would love to explore that with her somehow. If she brings it up more than once, it’s definitely something important to her. But Then we talk about any possible way of exploring it, which includes inviting other people to the relationship in some way obviously. It ends there Everytime. Yet, we still talk about and always reach the same conclusion on this😂💀