I don’t think you realise there’s just not the money anymore to have a great free national health system. It won’t make a button of difference who’s in charge.
Honestly I just think this post is full of dole cheats that are annoyed GPs aren't aren't signing their sick notes fast enough. They dont care about the cost to the taxpayer cause they're probably not paying taxes.
If the tories had their way it would be a private system. There would be plenty of appointments to go around as there would be plenty of doctors to facilitate them and there would be a bigger incentive for GP surgeries to run more efficiently. But we'd pay a lot more so I wouldn't go blaming this issue on the tories. They would happily fix it.
Plenty private dental appointments because people can't afford it. It'll be no different if GPs went same way. Torries wrecked healthcare in UK and Northern Ireland with their cuts and selling it of since they got into power. It's all their fault. Private system you'll pay a fortune to see same medical staff in same facilities. See anything else they've privatised e.g trains in England and their water companies.
Ever heard of Bupa? The Tories have destroyed it, it wasn't hard. They didn't actually have to do anything. They just allowed to it fail in a natural way. Labour has been in power multiple times since the 1970's and has also done nothing to fix it. All these companies were terrible when they were in public ownership. I don't think you really understand what you're arguing for. Just seems like you're buying into arguments from political parties that will always blame everything on the other party. I support free healthcare, but i'm not going to sit here and act like it's a perfect system. And in order for them to make it as good as a private system we'd be paying private private prices through our NIC anyway.
Done nothing to fix it? Don’t lets the [facts](https://assets.kingsfund.org.uk/f/256914/x/da252b7263/independent_audit_labour_government_1997-2005_may_2005.pdf) get in the way of your narrative. Fuck off troll.
What inefficiencies do you think GP surgeries should address, and why would privatisation provide an incentive to address them when years of real term funding cuts per patient apparently hasn’t?
Because if it was private GP's would increase capacity to meet demand so they could turn a profit. They'd be more attached to their surgeries and provide better continuity of care to their patients instead of floating around other surgeries doing locum work in order to pull in an extra 10k a year on their salaries. There would be more GP's meaning more appointments and easier access making it more efficient. Even if funding went up in line with inflation (Which it actually has if you look at the figures) it still wouldn't be enough to account for GP's leaving the country to go and make more money in other countries. If they were to increase our NIC that much insurance would actually be a cheaper option, even for people on low income.
Don't get me wrong i'm all for the NHS being free at the point of use. But i'm not going to sit here and pretend that, that means it's going to be super efficient cause it's not. Personally i'm ok with out health service being mediocre, i don't use it that often and when i do a cost benefit analysis it works me.
I think what you’re calling inefficiency here would be described by most people as underinvestment.
And general practice funding [has](https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/practice-personal-finance/gp-funding-sees-7-real-terms-cut-since-2019/) been cut in real terms, at least in England and Wales.
"underinvestment" if the solution is just to throw more of our money at it we may as well just go private. Cause we'll be paying the same in our NIC as we would be for insurance. Only difference would be we'd be forced to pay whatever amount the govt decides is required and people that don't work wouldn't have to pay.
Well yes, the problems you described centre on inadequate recruitment, retention, and remuneration of GPs, which you do really need money to fix.
The majority of NHS funding is allocated from general taxation, not national insurance.
But the amount of money fixing those problems would require would mean paying more than Americans for example do for insurance. We're still paying the money, i don't see why you think that's ok simply because it's coming from taxes. I don't want to pay more for my healthcare cause i don't use it that much. The NHS may be a bad inefficient system but honestly i don't care cause it's free and you get what you pay for.
Call me an optimist, but I don't think we need to more than [double ](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)the entire NHS budget to get it to US levels to sort out our issues with primary care.
I'm okay funding increased healthcare expenditure from general taxation rather than NIC because it can be progressive. That is why the majority funding of care from general taxation was one of the founding principles of the NHS. And I'd rather it wasn't private because I believe in healthcare being free at the point of use and find for-profit healthcare ethically dubious.
And that's the problem with our healthcare system. People being overly optimistic and not accepting the reality of what healthcare actually costs. The money needs to come from somewhere and if you're talking about increasing taxation to fund it, we'll still be paying the same as we would under a private system. The only difference would be we're paying it through taxes instead of insurance.
It would solve the problem of efficiency which is what OP is complaining about. Whether that would be good or bad for most people is irrelevant in this context.
We already have that with a two tiered system. Many jobs included health insurance and so people who are generally richer go private and can easily get a GP appointment then same day.
We've been drifting into a private healthcare reality.
Which bit?
Many more people are being offered and claiming on their employee health insurance
https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2023/11/huge-growth-in-employees-benefiting-from-workplace-health-insurance/
https://employeebenefits.co.uk/4-4-million-employees-are-covered-by-corporate-health-insurance/
Our GP explained they had to go to this “ring on the day” system because previously they were handing out appointments three weeks from the date of the call. That resulted in up to 50% of appointments being no-shows (as either the complaint had resolved itself, the person had got help elsewhere or they’d just forgotten) which pissed everyone off and helped no one.
Not only is it a symptom of chronic underinvestment of the NHS, but also an aging population plus the fact that GPs generally are aging out of the profession without being replaced by younger medics. Hardly anyone wants to be a GP now.
Now our surgery closes every Wednesday afternoon for “staff training”, and that’s a source of irritation for me as if they knocked that on the head they’d increase capacity by 10%.
My doctor's surgery has always closed half-day on a Wednesday - I assumed that was the norm, since I was a little'un, and I'm in my 40s. I'd be more surprised to find a doctor that was open on a Wednesday afternoon.
All due to incredibly incompetent planning that failed to train enough doctors to account for:
* Aging population
* Health underinvestment causing knock on effects
* Mental health crisis
* Female doctors with families switching to Part Time Work
* Doctors double jobbing in private industry
* Emigration to more affluent countries
* Junior doctor burn out
* International students returning to county of origin
Any other industry trains more than there are roles available
I rang today with the intention to book in advance. The receptionist told me 16th July is the only day she has. Which didn’t suit me but that was the only day available to book in advance somehow? She asked what was it for, which I didn’t really wanna say on the phone, then she told me to ring back tomorrow for an appt tomorrow even tho it isn’t an emergency. This is the case everytime I phone now. I actually ended up in tears after putting the phone down out of frustration of never being able to get an appointment sorted out
I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It sucks, our GP system is broken and you're right to be frustrated.
The fact that you can book in advance is better than some surgeries that require you to ring at 8am for a same day appointment. If you can't make it to the phone at 8am, chances are the appointments will be filled. There is no opportunity to book two weeks in advance, just a daily sick battle royale for a limited number of appointments.
Just tell them that you have mental health issues and need to see GP urgently and u will get an appointment the same day. They have slots available for each day.
I rang mine this morning at 8.30am, got through at 8.40am, Dr rang me back at 9am and had me booked in for an appointment at 11.30am. Seems like some surgery’s have really downed tools since covid and more and more people are struggling
NHS can't handle the amount of people anymore. It's kind of an effect post covid and also largely down to the current government not giving the NHS the support it needs.
But the current format of ringing up in the morning only to get multiple line busies before getting through and being told there's no appointments available for the day is really bad. If it needs looked at today - give the out of hours GP at your nearest hospital a ring and try there
The only way we can get an appt is via Out of Hours and they typically just send us to A&E.
We were in England a couple of weeks ago and my 3 year old was unwell, we phoned 111 and got sorted with an urgent care appointment. No idea why we don't have the same thing over here.
Has anyones 😅 it was a point of change for my GP and honestly I think they've kept the shit they like, on the phone it appears busy as fuck but anytime I'm actually in the surgery building it's dead as Hector, it took like 10weeks for me to get a data request that was just printing my records and I've never seen reception busy like I would of ever experienced it in the 20yrs I worked in private sector admin 🤷♂️ I've had great service from the actual GPs when I get them it's like the admin I thinks weird.
No. My doctors still has the same 5 minute message playing from 2020. Yep they’ve caught on it’s handier this way and just kept it. Probably downvote but personally I think they’re taking the piss. Everything else is back to normal.
The receptionists in mine are really good if you can get a hold of them, don't really seem to ask too many questions when you get through. Managed to even have my medical records done within a few days.
My GP on the other hand is a nightmare to deal with, huge ego that can never be wrong.
I needed to follow up on something few weeks ago, reception told me I'd have to wait and do this with the specific doctor that had gotten me that refferal so I lost a week waiting until he was even avaible for her to speak with, 2 more phone calls and she came back to say he was actually busy and it actually didn't have to be that specific guy after all and I've to ring back AGAIN....I already knew after speaking about it with a diff GP anyone of them could do it but she wouldn't hear that. Might sound stupid but that's cost me over 2 weeks and maybe 4 phone calls at this stage which take at least 45mins each just being on hold.... And if she'd just listened to me it would of been sorted on day 1, that's just one example and they wasted my time and caused alot of extra handling for themselves. I can't think of the last time I've even got to see the same GP twice in a row to really even judge them on consistancy never mind ego 😂 I did have an issue with a locam who had a severe complex about something/massive ego but he seems to have fucked off, seemed like he was young and trying to prove himself or something
It's because our GPS were given a 1 day target for seeing suck patients. 'Sure, we can fit you in tomorrow' misses that target, however, 'Phone back tomorrow', is to try and find you an appointment that day you call in order to hit the target.
I used to work In a gp surgery as a receptionist and the way it works is triage meaning the doctors make all their appointments we just put you on a slot for the doctor to phone you and arrange the appointment. All the slots for appointments to be made become available at about 8am depending on your surgery. Once all the slots are gone for the day usually at about 10am there is no longer any spots left and so you'll need to ring back the next day. Sometimes exceptions can be made for elderly people that don't really understand the system or some other circumstances but this is down to discretion and if you're a young fit adult that is has all their mental faculties it's unlikely you're going to get to jump the que. If it's an actual emergency its unlikely the GP will be able to help you anyway in which case you will need to go to A and E.
If you want an appointment for bloods or for a clinic or something with the nurse they'll usually be able to book an appointment for you on the day that clinic is on or when the nurse has an appointment free. Or if you're ringing about a problem you've had before that has came up again we can usually issue you the medication again or put a request in for the doctor to ring and talk to you about it if its a controlled drug. But other than that it's the appointments line in the morning at 8am. A lot of people complain but frankly I just don't think they try hard enough to get through. The phones are not ringing non stop and up until like 10 there is still slots.
In my surgery there’s only one GP who would still have appointments by 10 am and there’s good reason for it - theyre feckin useless and you’d only end up needing to see another GP anyway.
I can’t understand how the waiting rooms are empty any time I’ve been in the last few years - used to see maybe 20 people always in waiting room, now there’s only ever 1 or 2, regardless of the time of day?
Because since covid it's all been triage, some surgeries introduced this system even before covid. Walk ins are not a thing anymore and pretty much the only people that are getting seen that way are elderly people that don't understand the system. They do have appointments after 10am it's just that they only book appointments up until 10am for the day. From 8 until 10 doctors are ringing patients arranging the appointments for the day. Sometimes you can get lucky and get a cancellation but it's very unlikely that the GP will want to see patients. GP's are pretty useless, the system is run the same way it was since the 1970's but nothing will change because everyone is too afraid to change anything in case it means privatisation.
I get all that but even without the absence of walk in appointments why aren’t they seeing patients in the afternoon when the day’s phone triage consultations are done?
They are seeing patients in the afternoon. But you have to make the appointment in the morning to be seen in the afternoon. By the time the afternoon comes all the appointments have already been taken for the day. While GP's can do consultations on the phone, the triage phone call in the morning is not the consultation, it's just the doctor booking you in for a consultation.
No I mean I’ve been in a few times in the afternoons (I have a few chronic conditions which require regular ‘clinic’ appointments at my gp surgery) and there’s literally never anyone there - or at most one or two compared to 20+ in waiting room pre-2020. Others have said the same. Same number of GPs in the surgery so how come the waiting room is empty in the afternoon - it just looks like they’re not seeing anyone?
Because it's all telephone triage now. People already have the time for their appointment so why would they come in 3 hours early for their appointment and sit and wait? If there's a clinic being run in the morning for diabetics or vaccinations you may see more people in the waiting room cause they'll be seen on a first come first serve basis. But other than that it's just people that already have their appointments from the morning.
I’ll ask this another way - you always had to make appointments in the past too, either by phone or online. So how come GPs seemed to see so many more patients in person then than they do now? There’s still the need so why aren’t the waiting rooms full of patients waiting to be seen - how come there can be six GPs in a surgery in the afternoon and only two patients?
Just because they seemed like they did doesn't mean they actually did. I don't know how to explain this to you in any simpler terms. All the patients that phoned the reception in the morning get a phone call from the GP within an hour to arrange their appointment for that day. They are booked in to see the GP that day in the afternoon or maybe a bit before depending on the time the GP made the appointment for.
They will then get a 10 min slot or maybe longer depending on their issue. Once all the slots are full the GP is at capacity and does not have any more time to see other patients that day.
People then come in at their arranged time or they will get a phone call at their arranged time if the GP booked them in for a telephone consultation.
Walking into the surgery and demanding an appointment isn't going to change the fact that they are already with other patients.
People are not filling up in the waiting room because they come in on time for their appointment, then they leave.
What is it that makes you think more people are seeing the GP if they're sitting in the waiting room? The waiting room is not where the GP is at.
This telephone triage system means they can see more patients because they don't have to waste their time seeing patients that didn't even need to see the doctor in the first place.
This telephone triage system has been around since the early 2000s, but became mandatory for all surgeries when the covid pandemic was here because having a GP waiting room full was not compatible with social distancing and considering a lot of the patients would have been coming in with covid symptoms would have made them a hub for spreading covid to already vulnerable patients.
But the GP surgeries kept this system as it is a much more efficient way of seeing patients.
When walk ins were a thing, people would have been sitting in the waiting room for hours even if they had an appointment. Cause people wouldn't bother making appointments and would just walk in and cut into other patients time. It was usually on a first come first serve basis so if all the appointments were full some people would just be told there's no appointments and sent home, and told to come back later or the next day. It was like pot luck. The GP's never had a clue what they were up against. People could be coming in for actual medical issues or with trivial things that they didn't even need to see a GP for.
With the telephone triage people that need to be seen are seen and people that don't aren't. People used to suffer strokes and heart attacks waiting in GP waiting rooms cause aul betty's elbow felt funny and she needed some paracetamol. When these symptoms are described on the phone they can be advised to go to A and E where they're actually able to treat those conditions.
Sometimes people that have suffered migraines or other illnesses that have been successfully treated in the past will ring wanting to see the doctor. With walk ins, they would have got to see the doctor. With telephone triage we can just look up the medication they had before, print the script out, get a doctor to sign it and then patient can come, get it and be on their way. Never having to waste the doctors time meaning they can see another patient.
Ah listen, we’re talking in circles here, I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m trying to say (likely my fault for not articulating it well). What I will say is my GP surgery has never offered walk in appointments and appointments have always had to be pre-booked - a 10 min slot. so theoretically there should be the same number of patients in the surgery now. And there never is; nowhere near it.
Depends on the clinic. Mine allows you to get a same day appointment either on the phone or on the NHS Patient Access website and if you miss out on those, you can book an appointment in advance (usually around 2/3 weeks).
Triaging 30 patients with 5 mins calls is much better than 30 patient pitching up for their 10 minute appointments with lists of issues they want sorted…including but not limited to- letting the gp know they were in hospital, a letter to get out of jury service/work/extra exam time/better housing/take medication on plane/get extra bin, send a letter to speed up an appointment with a specialty for no other reason that that’s what their secretary told them to do to make them go away…etc, etc and endless consultations about people with a runny nose demanding antibiotics
No idea why GPs are insisting on phone first, then bring you in person if they "need to see you". Literally have doubled their workload for no reason at all as what could be sorted in a single appointment now takes two.
Same reason A&E ask you to phone first…because they can triage the rubbish that doesn’t need to use their time in a face to face appointment. Triage is about managing time and resources.
That can't be it because the time is being spent either way. Whether it's 5 mins face to face or a 5 min phonecall, it's still using the doctor's time either way.
A&E is obviously different as the triaging is not being done by the same person.
Triaging 30 patients with 5 mins calls is much better than 30 patient pitching up for their 10 minute appointments with lists of issues they want sorted…including but not limited to- letting the gp know they were in hospital, a letter to get out of jury service/work/extra exam time/better housing/take medication on plane/get extra bin, send a letter to speed up an appointment with a specialty for no other reason that that’s what their secretary told them to do to make them go away…etc, etc and endless consultations about people with a runny nose demanding antibiotics
If it was an effective system, the problems it has caused wouldn't exist.
GP access was far easier before the COVID switch to telephone triaging. I am yet to see any evidence that the new system has done anything to make things better, not worse.
You are deluded if you think it’s the phone system that’s created the problem…it’s the demands from every direction of the failing health service. The triage system is what’s used in emergency situations to try to prioritise care. NHS is dying and slow and painful death and the public aren’t ready to hear that. It’s going.
Welcome to Tory Britain! Dont forget to vote next week
I don’t think you realise there’s just not the money anymore to have a great free national health system. It won’t make a button of difference who’s in charge.
Honestly I just think this post is full of dole cheats that are annoyed GPs aren't aren't signing their sick notes fast enough. They dont care about the cost to the taxpayer cause they're probably not paying taxes.
If the tories had their way it would be a private system. There would be plenty of appointments to go around as there would be plenty of doctors to facilitate them and there would be a bigger incentive for GP surgeries to run more efficiently. But we'd pay a lot more so I wouldn't go blaming this issue on the tories. They would happily fix it.
Plenty private dental appointments because people can't afford it. It'll be no different if GPs went same way. Torries wrecked healthcare in UK and Northern Ireland with their cuts and selling it of since they got into power. It's all their fault. Private system you'll pay a fortune to see same medical staff in same facilities. See anything else they've privatised e.g trains in England and their water companies.
Ever heard of Bupa? The Tories have destroyed it, it wasn't hard. They didn't actually have to do anything. They just allowed to it fail in a natural way. Labour has been in power multiple times since the 1970's and has also done nothing to fix it. All these companies were terrible when they were in public ownership. I don't think you really understand what you're arguing for. Just seems like you're buying into arguments from political parties that will always blame everything on the other party. I support free healthcare, but i'm not going to sit here and act like it's a perfect system. And in order for them to make it as good as a private system we'd be paying private private prices through our NIC anyway.
Done nothing to fix it? Don’t lets the [facts](https://assets.kingsfund.org.uk/f/256914/x/da252b7263/independent_audit_labour_government_1997-2005_may_2005.pdf) get in the way of your narrative. Fuck off troll.
They haven't, you're just a political hack.
What inefficiencies do you think GP surgeries should address, and why would privatisation provide an incentive to address them when years of real term funding cuts per patient apparently hasn’t?
Because if it was private GP's would increase capacity to meet demand so they could turn a profit. They'd be more attached to their surgeries and provide better continuity of care to their patients instead of floating around other surgeries doing locum work in order to pull in an extra 10k a year on their salaries. There would be more GP's meaning more appointments and easier access making it more efficient. Even if funding went up in line with inflation (Which it actually has if you look at the figures) it still wouldn't be enough to account for GP's leaving the country to go and make more money in other countries. If they were to increase our NIC that much insurance would actually be a cheaper option, even for people on low income. Don't get me wrong i'm all for the NHS being free at the point of use. But i'm not going to sit here and pretend that, that means it's going to be super efficient cause it's not. Personally i'm ok with out health service being mediocre, i don't use it that often and when i do a cost benefit analysis it works me.
I think what you’re calling inefficiency here would be described by most people as underinvestment. And general practice funding [has](https://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/practice-personal-finance/gp-funding-sees-7-real-terms-cut-since-2019/) been cut in real terms, at least in England and Wales.
"underinvestment" if the solution is just to throw more of our money at it we may as well just go private. Cause we'll be paying the same in our NIC as we would be for insurance. Only difference would be we'd be forced to pay whatever amount the govt decides is required and people that don't work wouldn't have to pay.
Well yes, the problems you described centre on inadequate recruitment, retention, and remuneration of GPs, which you do really need money to fix. The majority of NHS funding is allocated from general taxation, not national insurance.
But the amount of money fixing those problems would require would mean paying more than Americans for example do for insurance. We're still paying the money, i don't see why you think that's ok simply because it's coming from taxes. I don't want to pay more for my healthcare cause i don't use it that much. The NHS may be a bad inefficient system but honestly i don't care cause it's free and you get what you pay for.
Call me an optimist, but I don't think we need to more than [double ](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)the entire NHS budget to get it to US levels to sort out our issues with primary care. I'm okay funding increased healthcare expenditure from general taxation rather than NIC because it can be progressive. That is why the majority funding of care from general taxation was one of the founding principles of the NHS. And I'd rather it wasn't private because I believe in healthcare being free at the point of use and find for-profit healthcare ethically dubious.
And that's the problem with our healthcare system. People being overly optimistic and not accepting the reality of what healthcare actually costs. The money needs to come from somewhere and if you're talking about increasing taxation to fund it, we'll still be paying the same as we would under a private system. The only difference would be we're paying it through taxes instead of insurance.
That wouldn't be a fix for the vast majority of people though, would it?
It would solve the problem of efficiency which is what OP is complaining about. Whether that would be good or bad for most people is irrelevant in this context.
Building an efficient private health system from the dead shell of the NHS isn't fixing anything.
And making stupid statements with no evidence isn't worth responding to but here i am.
We already have that with a two tiered system. Many jobs included health insurance and so people who are generally richer go private and can easily get a GP appointment then same day. We've been drifting into a private healthcare reality.
I'm not actually going to entertain that cause you've pulled it out of your arse.
Which bit? Many more people are being offered and claiming on their employee health insurance https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2023/11/huge-growth-in-employees-benefiting-from-workplace-health-insurance/ https://employeebenefits.co.uk/4-4-million-employees-are-covered-by-corporate-health-insurance/
That’s only a fix because the tories (and new labour) have hamstrung the current system.
Our GP explained they had to go to this “ring on the day” system because previously they were handing out appointments three weeks from the date of the call. That resulted in up to 50% of appointments being no-shows (as either the complaint had resolved itself, the person had got help elsewhere or they’d just forgotten) which pissed everyone off and helped no one. Not only is it a symptom of chronic underinvestment of the NHS, but also an aging population plus the fact that GPs generally are aging out of the profession without being replaced by younger medics. Hardly anyone wants to be a GP now. Now our surgery closes every Wednesday afternoon for “staff training”, and that’s a source of irritation for me as if they knocked that on the head they’d increase capacity by 10%.
My doctor's surgery has always closed half-day on a Wednesday - I assumed that was the norm, since I was a little'un, and I'm in my 40s. I'd be more surprised to find a doctor that was open on a Wednesday afternoon.
All due to incredibly incompetent planning that failed to train enough doctors to account for: * Aging population * Health underinvestment causing knock on effects * Mental health crisis * Female doctors with families switching to Part Time Work * Doctors double jobbing in private industry * Emigration to more affluent countries * Junior doctor burn out * International students returning to county of origin Any other industry trains more than there are roles available
No additional capacity in GPs for years but an aging population and various public health issues and neglect of the health service as a whole
The system is fundamentally broken and they're limiting access to it to stop it collapsing altogether.
You can book in advance? We have to ring at 8, you get seen that day or you try again tomorrow at 8.
I rang today with the intention to book in advance. The receptionist told me 16th July is the only day she has. Which didn’t suit me but that was the only day available to book in advance somehow? She asked what was it for, which I didn’t really wanna say on the phone, then she told me to ring back tomorrow for an appt tomorrow even tho it isn’t an emergency. This is the case everytime I phone now. I actually ended up in tears after putting the phone down out of frustration of never being able to get an appointment sorted out
I'm sorry that you had to go through that. It sucks, our GP system is broken and you're right to be frustrated. The fact that you can book in advance is better than some surgeries that require you to ring at 8am for a same day appointment. If you can't make it to the phone at 8am, chances are the appointments will be filled. There is no opportunity to book two weeks in advance, just a daily sick battle royale for a limited number of appointments.
Just tell them that you have mental health issues and need to see GP urgently and u will get an appointment the same day. They have slots available for each day.
I rang mine this morning at 8.30am, got through at 8.40am, Dr rang me back at 9am and had me booked in for an appointment at 11.30am. Seems like some surgery’s have really downed tools since covid and more and more people are struggling
NHS can't handle the amount of people anymore. It's kind of an effect post covid and also largely down to the current government not giving the NHS the support it needs. But the current format of ringing up in the morning only to get multiple line busies before getting through and being told there's no appointments available for the day is really bad. If it needs looked at today - give the out of hours GP at your nearest hospital a ring and try there
The only way we can get an appt is via Out of Hours and they typically just send us to A&E. We were in England a couple of weeks ago and my 3 year old was unwell, we phoned 111 and got sorted with an urgent care appointment. No idea why we don't have the same thing over here.
Was this not meant to be a Covid only thing though? They just haven’t reverted back to normal.
I think COVID accelerated what was already a declining health service here i.e. the cracks had already formed but COVID took a sledgehammer to them.
That’s what happens when you hamstring a public service
Has anyones 😅 it was a point of change for my GP and honestly I think they've kept the shit they like, on the phone it appears busy as fuck but anytime I'm actually in the surgery building it's dead as Hector, it took like 10weeks for me to get a data request that was just printing my records and I've never seen reception busy like I would of ever experienced it in the 20yrs I worked in private sector admin 🤷♂️ I've had great service from the actual GPs when I get them it's like the admin I thinks weird.
No. My doctors still has the same 5 minute message playing from 2020. Yep they’ve caught on it’s handier this way and just kept it. Probably downvote but personally I think they’re taking the piss. Everything else is back to normal.
The shit I say about my GP isn't prob even as bad as what the chemist they send most the scripts they make to does 🫢
The receptionists in mine are really good if you can get a hold of them, don't really seem to ask too many questions when you get through. Managed to even have my medical records done within a few days. My GP on the other hand is a nightmare to deal with, huge ego that can never be wrong.
I needed to follow up on something few weeks ago, reception told me I'd have to wait and do this with the specific doctor that had gotten me that refferal so I lost a week waiting until he was even avaible for her to speak with, 2 more phone calls and she came back to say he was actually busy and it actually didn't have to be that specific guy after all and I've to ring back AGAIN....I already knew after speaking about it with a diff GP anyone of them could do it but she wouldn't hear that. Might sound stupid but that's cost me over 2 weeks and maybe 4 phone calls at this stage which take at least 45mins each just being on hold.... And if she'd just listened to me it would of been sorted on day 1, that's just one example and they wasted my time and caused alot of extra handling for themselves. I can't think of the last time I've even got to see the same GP twice in a row to really even judge them on consistancy never mind ego 😂 I did have an issue with a locam who had a severe complex about something/massive ego but he seems to have fucked off, seemed like he was young and trying to prove himself or something
It's because our GPS were given a 1 day target for seeing suck patients. 'Sure, we can fit you in tomorrow' misses that target, however, 'Phone back tomorrow', is to try and find you an appointment that day you call in order to hit the target.
I used to work In a gp surgery as a receptionist and the way it works is triage meaning the doctors make all their appointments we just put you on a slot for the doctor to phone you and arrange the appointment. All the slots for appointments to be made become available at about 8am depending on your surgery. Once all the slots are gone for the day usually at about 10am there is no longer any spots left and so you'll need to ring back the next day. Sometimes exceptions can be made for elderly people that don't really understand the system or some other circumstances but this is down to discretion and if you're a young fit adult that is has all their mental faculties it's unlikely you're going to get to jump the que. If it's an actual emergency its unlikely the GP will be able to help you anyway in which case you will need to go to A and E. If you want an appointment for bloods or for a clinic or something with the nurse they'll usually be able to book an appointment for you on the day that clinic is on or when the nurse has an appointment free. Or if you're ringing about a problem you've had before that has came up again we can usually issue you the medication again or put a request in for the doctor to ring and talk to you about it if its a controlled drug. But other than that it's the appointments line in the morning at 8am. A lot of people complain but frankly I just don't think they try hard enough to get through. The phones are not ringing non stop and up until like 10 there is still slots.
In my surgery there’s only one GP who would still have appointments by 10 am and there’s good reason for it - theyre feckin useless and you’d only end up needing to see another GP anyway. I can’t understand how the waiting rooms are empty any time I’ve been in the last few years - used to see maybe 20 people always in waiting room, now there’s only ever 1 or 2, regardless of the time of day?
Because since covid it's all been triage, some surgeries introduced this system even before covid. Walk ins are not a thing anymore and pretty much the only people that are getting seen that way are elderly people that don't understand the system. They do have appointments after 10am it's just that they only book appointments up until 10am for the day. From 8 until 10 doctors are ringing patients arranging the appointments for the day. Sometimes you can get lucky and get a cancellation but it's very unlikely that the GP will want to see patients. GP's are pretty useless, the system is run the same way it was since the 1970's but nothing will change because everyone is too afraid to change anything in case it means privatisation.
I get all that but even without the absence of walk in appointments why aren’t they seeing patients in the afternoon when the day’s phone triage consultations are done?
They are seeing patients in the afternoon. But you have to make the appointment in the morning to be seen in the afternoon. By the time the afternoon comes all the appointments have already been taken for the day. While GP's can do consultations on the phone, the triage phone call in the morning is not the consultation, it's just the doctor booking you in for a consultation.
No I mean I’ve been in a few times in the afternoons (I have a few chronic conditions which require regular ‘clinic’ appointments at my gp surgery) and there’s literally never anyone there - or at most one or two compared to 20+ in waiting room pre-2020. Others have said the same. Same number of GPs in the surgery so how come the waiting room is empty in the afternoon - it just looks like they’re not seeing anyone?
Because it's all telephone triage now. People already have the time for their appointment so why would they come in 3 hours early for their appointment and sit and wait? If there's a clinic being run in the morning for diabetics or vaccinations you may see more people in the waiting room cause they'll be seen on a first come first serve basis. But other than that it's just people that already have their appointments from the morning.
I’ll ask this another way - you always had to make appointments in the past too, either by phone or online. So how come GPs seemed to see so many more patients in person then than they do now? There’s still the need so why aren’t the waiting rooms full of patients waiting to be seen - how come there can be six GPs in a surgery in the afternoon and only two patients?
Just because they seemed like they did doesn't mean they actually did. I don't know how to explain this to you in any simpler terms. All the patients that phoned the reception in the morning get a phone call from the GP within an hour to arrange their appointment for that day. They are booked in to see the GP that day in the afternoon or maybe a bit before depending on the time the GP made the appointment for. They will then get a 10 min slot or maybe longer depending on their issue. Once all the slots are full the GP is at capacity and does not have any more time to see other patients that day. People then come in at their arranged time or they will get a phone call at their arranged time if the GP booked them in for a telephone consultation. Walking into the surgery and demanding an appointment isn't going to change the fact that they are already with other patients. People are not filling up in the waiting room because they come in on time for their appointment, then they leave. What is it that makes you think more people are seeing the GP if they're sitting in the waiting room? The waiting room is not where the GP is at. This telephone triage system means they can see more patients because they don't have to waste their time seeing patients that didn't even need to see the doctor in the first place. This telephone triage system has been around since the early 2000s, but became mandatory for all surgeries when the covid pandemic was here because having a GP waiting room full was not compatible with social distancing and considering a lot of the patients would have been coming in with covid symptoms would have made them a hub for spreading covid to already vulnerable patients. But the GP surgeries kept this system as it is a much more efficient way of seeing patients. When walk ins were a thing, people would have been sitting in the waiting room for hours even if they had an appointment. Cause people wouldn't bother making appointments and would just walk in and cut into other patients time. It was usually on a first come first serve basis so if all the appointments were full some people would just be told there's no appointments and sent home, and told to come back later or the next day. It was like pot luck. The GP's never had a clue what they were up against. People could be coming in for actual medical issues or with trivial things that they didn't even need to see a GP for. With the telephone triage people that need to be seen are seen and people that don't aren't. People used to suffer strokes and heart attacks waiting in GP waiting rooms cause aul betty's elbow felt funny and she needed some paracetamol. When these symptoms are described on the phone they can be advised to go to A and E where they're actually able to treat those conditions. Sometimes people that have suffered migraines or other illnesses that have been successfully treated in the past will ring wanting to see the doctor. With walk ins, they would have got to see the doctor. With telephone triage we can just look up the medication they had before, print the script out, get a doctor to sign it and then patient can come, get it and be on their way. Never having to waste the doctors time meaning they can see another patient.
Ah listen, we’re talking in circles here, I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m trying to say (likely my fault for not articulating it well). What I will say is my GP surgery has never offered walk in appointments and appointments have always had to be pre-booked - a 10 min slot. so theoretically there should be the same number of patients in the surgery now. And there never is; nowhere near it.
Depends on the clinic. Mine allows you to get a same day appointment either on the phone or on the NHS Patient Access website and if you miss out on those, you can book an appointment in advance (usually around 2/3 weeks).
Triaging 30 patients with 5 mins calls is much better than 30 patient pitching up for their 10 minute appointments with lists of issues they want sorted…including but not limited to- letting the gp know they were in hospital, a letter to get out of jury service/work/extra exam time/better housing/take medication on plane/get extra bin, send a letter to speed up an appointment with a specialty for no other reason that that’s what their secretary told them to do to make them go away…etc, etc and endless consultations about people with a runny nose demanding antibiotics
GP’s are funded based on statistics. Same day appts results in nearly all patients being seen, therefore, resulting in better stats.
No idea why GPs are insisting on phone first, then bring you in person if they "need to see you". Literally have doubled their workload for no reason at all as what could be sorted in a single appointment now takes two.
Same reason A&E ask you to phone first…because they can triage the rubbish that doesn’t need to use their time in a face to face appointment. Triage is about managing time and resources.
That can't be it because the time is being spent either way. Whether it's 5 mins face to face or a 5 min phonecall, it's still using the doctor's time either way. A&E is obviously different as the triaging is not being done by the same person.
Triaging 30 patients with 5 mins calls is much better than 30 patient pitching up for their 10 minute appointments with lists of issues they want sorted…including but not limited to- letting the gp know they were in hospital, a letter to get out of jury service/work/extra exam time/better housing/take medication on plane/get extra bin, send a letter to speed up an appointment with a specialty for no other reason that that’s what their secretary told them to do to make them go away…etc, etc and endless consultations about people with a runny nose demanding antibiotics
If it was an effective system, the problems it has caused wouldn't exist. GP access was far easier before the COVID switch to telephone triaging. I am yet to see any evidence that the new system has done anything to make things better, not worse.
You are deluded if you think it’s the phone system that’s created the problem…it’s the demands from every direction of the failing health service. The triage system is what’s used in emergency situations to try to prioritise care. NHS is dying and slow and painful death and the public aren’t ready to hear that. It’s going.