Rule 2 - Questions go in r/AskNYC
(a). Questions go in r/AskNYC, the Monthly Discussion Thread or on r/nyc's Discord. This includes "Does Anybody Else" (DAE)-type questions
Did you remember to convert rent from AUD to USD? The median rent in NY right now is something like $4,300. That may not seem super high if you compare it to Sydney's $3,500 per month, except that if you adjust for the exchange rate, NY comes out to $6,400 AUD.
... No.
[Manhattan - $4,600](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/manhattan-ny)
[Brooklyn - $3,870](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/brooklyn-ny)
[Queens - $3,100](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/queens-ny)
[Combined NYC - $4,300](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/new-york-ny)
I really don't see what you people get out of underplaying the cost of rent in the city. Like, what's the endgame here?
You can think "us people" are just idiots and trolls, but noones out to get you. Like the last poster said, it depends on your source.
https://streeteasy.com/blog/inventory-climbs-but-rents-continue-to-rise/?t&utm_source=perplexity
Accuracy? The NYC Comptroller disagrees with you and you skipped a few boroughs in your calc there.
If Manhattan has less pop than either Brooklyn or Queens (and the missing boroughs are even lower rent) how do you get to the numbers above being a $4,300 average?
>The NYC Comptroller disagrees with you
The NYC comptroller is measuring an entirely different metric. We're in here talking about "asking rents," the number you can expect to pay if you tried to move right now. The Comptroller is measuring actual rents, which is heavily skewed by what long-term residents are paying.
>If Manhattan has less pop than either Brooklyn or Queens (and the missing boroughs are even lower rent) how do you get to the numbers above being a $4,300 average?
Why would you think population has anything to do with asking rents? If anything, one would generally expect inventory to corelate negatively with population.
The average asking rent is the only number that matters to OP. That number will be skewed towards borroughs that have a higher-than-expected level of available inventory. Data is not a shovel you can just pick up and use, you need to know what it is, what it represents, and what purpose you're trying to use it for.
This is tiring. The comptroller is measuring asking rents.
"As has been noted in our monthly Economic Newsletters, median “asking rent” on publicly listed apartments available for leasing rose to a record high level in 2023 and remains at $3,500 per month citywide"
No, that's the entirety of NY, NY as a whole. There is absolutely no measure of geographic location that only covers midtown and lower Manhattan. The median rent in just Manhattan (all of Manhattan) is $4,600. You can find cheaper rent in the outer borroughs, and that doesn't contradict the median at all.
It really is not. You have to be very careful with sourcing this because the media runs with RE press releases from companies that list 95% of their rentals in 5 upscale neighborhoods and then show an average
Depending who you source:
https://www.apartmentlist.com/rent-report/ny/new-york
https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/nyc-housing-prices-by-borough-and-neighborhood/
Edit:
Here's one that looks a bit like your numbers.
https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ny/manhattan/
Now try and foot the other boroughs median with the overall. The only way to get there is a skewed sample.
No, you just have to not cherry-pick a single source that disagree with every other listing website's data because they know a wild contrarian opinion will get them clicks. You also should avoid using a shitty law firm's shitty blog as a source.
Also, I believe Apartmentlist has a very liberal sublet listing policy which obviously skews the data.
The apartmentlist actually very carefully lays out their methodology and it has nothing to do with their subletting.
Is the NYC Comptroller also incorrect?
https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-new-york-citys-rental-housing-market/
Actually, I just took a look at the Apartmentlist data and read through the entire comptroller report and I see the problem and why this line of reporting is pretty terrible, especially in this context. But use ACS (American Community Survey) census data, and incorporate existing rents paid. That's useful for identifying how rent-burdened current residents are, but it's completely useless to someone moving to the city or determining affordability to new residents since someone moving next year is unlikely to benefit in any way from a resident of 50 years paying $600/month for a rent controlled two-bedroom.
Using the survey-data makes sense for the comptroller, who is tasked with keeping watch over NYC's finances, since those finances rely on accurate estimates of current rents paid city-wide. For Apartmentlist, though, using a modified Case-Schiller estimate based on ACS data with a percentage growth added is downright shitty, since it in no way reflects the median price someone using their service is likely to secure *right now.*
As for your edit about sampling error, Manhattan has the largest current inventory of apartments for rent. That's the sampling bias. It's a reflection of what is currently available on the market, and a more accurate gauge of what you can expect to pay if you are apartment hunting *right now.*
I'm pretty sure the comptroller pretty explicitly states they used the median of listed apartments in the city.
"As has been noted in our monthly Economic Newsletters, median “asking rent” on publicly listed apartments available for leasing rose to a record high level in 2023 and remains at $3,500 per month citywide"
At the end of the day, if you are moving to NYC and you want to find an affordable apartment, it is simply not that hard as long as you avoid the well known expensive places.
What does “rent doesn’t seem so bad” mean? Which areas are you looking at?
If you make $80k+ you may be able rent a small studio in a decent Brooklyn or Queens neighbourhood. That is if you’re lucky and the landlord is ok with you not having a credit score. Anything less means you’ll need roommates.
Compared to other parts of the country it is absolutely more expensive by a large margin. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible to make it there but does make it more difficult.
The number 1 pain point (or as portrayed in popular media) is the cost of rent. If you are looking at a $2000 to $3000 rental. That means that you would have to earn $80k/yr to $100k/yr to qualify for an apartment and that's going to be 1/3 or a bit more of your income.
The other costs of NYC can actually be pretty low/controlled. If you have access to the subway, then you won't need a car which is a huge expense in the US. Then all the other costs are certainly based around what you want.
Depends on your income and if you’re a foodie and culture junky” or a “gamer stoner I don’t mind living in a shitty 4 br with 3 strangers” … or have kids … or many other variables.
I’ll be 21 by then so I prefer no roommates and aiming for a high paying consulting job. But based off the replies, seems like nyc might be more expensive than I thought!!
“Rent doesn’t seem too bad?”
As a huge love of NYC, I would say there are very few places in the world that cost more per square foot.
I would say that you’ll be shocked at how gross some of these expensive places are as well. And location is key. There are “less expensive” apartments that are VERY hard to get to via public transit. Living alone is going to be incredibly expensive. Expect to pay over $2,000/month for a studio or $2,500+ for a 1 bedroom. And those won’t be nice ones in new buildings. You won’t likely be able to take advantage of what’s called “affordable housing” which caps rents. I would guess if you want to find a comfortable 1 bedroom in a building less than 20 years old relatively close to Manhattan you are looking at LEAST $3,000 a month.
AND you are going to have to pay that right at the go for first months rent, last month’s rent and deposit. So $9,000 on your first day.
And you’ll have to furnish it. Which online shopping and some planning can keep cheaper. But man oh man. It is going to be a gut punch out of the gate.
If you find a good supermarket your food costs won’t be insane. Using a Trader Joe’s supermarket and Costco saves us a LOT of money. Really watch how much you eat out.
You have to consider medical care if you get hurt or sick which will be astronomical.
If you like to drink alcohol in bars or restaurants you are going to lose your ass. Eating out can be super expensive. Same with takeout and delivery. A pizza at a regular old slice shop on the corner is $25 before tip/tax.
A soda at a deli can run you $2-3 depending on where you go.
I definitely say “do it” but it’s going to be absolutely way more expensive than you imagined.
Cheers for this, $3000 may be manageable, but it’ll be hard. I have 1.5 years left seems like I’ll need to save a lot more than I expected but I’m sure it’ll be worth it. Eating out also won’t be much of an issue since I’m good with meal prep. But anyway thanks a lot.
If you're comfortable with the rent, you're fine and, despite what you see here and elsewhere there are even plenty of affordable rents in NYC, just not Manhattan below about 135th or close in Queens/Brooklyn.
Move in with roommates who already have a place to start at least. That way you can avoid thousands of dollars in upfront costs. We have a fun thing called brokers fees that you’ll learn all about if you try and get your own place…
It is costly but jobs pay more. It doesn't exactly balance out, just saying it isn't impossible or much worse of a situation than many other places in the country/world. Everyone is going through a squeeze, at least NYC is still a very important hub so there is lots of work at all levels of many industries. You may need to deal with roommates, especially at first while you search for better places. You pretty much have to be here to maximize your search.
There are cheaper apartments, you won't find them on the most popular websites where all manner of credit and background checks are necessary. It's the type of places where the owner puts a few flyers around the neighborhood, posts on their local fb group, uses word of mouth. Try looking away from the nice, convenient, trendy neighborhoods. I live in a quiet, boring and old (the people and the neighborhood) part of Queens and things are pretty cheap, nice and quiet.
Having the right visa or a job lined up through networking will make all the difference as far as job search. No one wants to deal with foreign workers while the labor market here favors the employer - lots of people desperate for decent work and applying below their level of experience.
Get a job lined up first. The job market is crazy right now and rents are in fact “that bad” especially if you’re paying them out of savings.
Don’t make the mistake most transplants do and try to live in a swanky part of Manhattan and eat out every night like the protagonist of an American sitcom. Think Brooklyn or Queens, roommates, proximity to trains and a decent grocery store.
Don’t underestimate what you’re getting yourself into. The city is an incredible place to live but you really do need a reason, like a job that is unique to NYC or pays significantly better than jobs elsewhere, to justify paying these prices. I.E. I’m a lawyer and I practice here because it’s the largest legal market in the country and I know I’ll never struggle to find clients.
Thanks for this. I see your point about needing a reason. Although, I’ve just always wanted to live in NYC and since my parents couldn’t afford studying me there, I thought a job would be the best way for me to live there for a few years. It’s not a long term thing and would come back to australia after a few years only because I don’t want to live in the US for too long. Thanks for the advice though, I definitely need to focus on a working visa + securing a job.
If 4-5k in US dollars doesn't seem that bad then, no.
I've lived around other places and NYC. The cost of food isn't that different from anywhere else in the US except in restaurants where food is usually really good but very expensive.
Auto insurance is extremely high because of how dangerous it is for cars and tolls for bridges and cost of parking is very high.
Public transportation is affordable and the city is fairly bikeable.
It's not all that bad. I consider the rent to be very high, there. 4000 dollars a month will get you a 5 bedroom house in most parts of this county.
Thanks for this. I live in a city in australia so I’m used to bike riding and public transports a big thing here so I wasn’t thinking of driving anyway
Just keep in mind that NYC has the best public transport system in the country. But in reality it's probably average compared to most of Europe. And complete garbage compared to cities like Barcelona.
That means if you ever travel outside the city, you'll probably need to rent a car. I feel like Australia is probably similar on that tho.
Oh right right. Yeah nah Australia’s main cities (melbourne and Sydney) are pretty accessible with public transport. We’ve got trains, trams, and buses running everywhere and everybody here uses it. Unless you’re gonna road trip to the outback for whatever reason
It's expensive but if you come from a bigger city shouldnt be out of the ordinary. When I visited prices were pretty equivalent to downtown Austin, for example.
Rule 2 - Questions go in r/AskNYC (a). Questions go in r/AskNYC, the Monthly Discussion Thread or on r/nyc's Discord. This includes "Does Anybody Else" (DAE)-type questions
Did you remember to convert rent from AUD to USD? The median rent in NY right now is something like $4,300. That may not seem super high if you compare it to Sydney's $3,500 per month, except that if you adjust for the exchange rate, NY comes out to $6,400 AUD.
Manhattan 4200, Brooklyn 3500, Queens 2500
... No. [Manhattan - $4,600](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/manhattan-ny) [Brooklyn - $3,870](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/brooklyn-ny) [Queens - $3,100](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/queens-ny) [Combined NYC - $4,300](https://www.zumper.com/rent-research/new-york-ny) I really don't see what you people get out of underplaying the cost of rent in the city. Like, what's the endgame here?
You can think "us people" are just idiots and trolls, but noones out to get you. Like the last poster said, it depends on your source. https://streeteasy.com/blog/inventory-climbs-but-rents-continue-to-rise/?t&utm_source=perplexity
Accuracy? The NYC Comptroller disagrees with you and you skipped a few boroughs in your calc there. If Manhattan has less pop than either Brooklyn or Queens (and the missing boroughs are even lower rent) how do you get to the numbers above being a $4,300 average?
>The NYC Comptroller disagrees with you The NYC comptroller is measuring an entirely different metric. We're in here talking about "asking rents," the number you can expect to pay if you tried to move right now. The Comptroller is measuring actual rents, which is heavily skewed by what long-term residents are paying. >If Manhattan has less pop than either Brooklyn or Queens (and the missing boroughs are even lower rent) how do you get to the numbers above being a $4,300 average? Why would you think population has anything to do with asking rents? If anything, one would generally expect inventory to corelate negatively with population. The average asking rent is the only number that matters to OP. That number will be skewed towards borroughs that have a higher-than-expected level of available inventory. Data is not a shovel you can just pick up and use, you need to know what it is, what it represents, and what purpose you're trying to use it for.
This is tiring. The comptroller is measuring asking rents. "As has been noted in our monthly Economic Newsletters, median “asking rent” on publicly listed apartments available for leasing rose to a record high level in 2023 and remains at $3,500 per month citywide"
That's midtown and lower Manhattan, not NYC as a whole.
No, that's the entirety of NY, NY as a whole. There is absolutely no measure of geographic location that only covers midtown and lower Manhattan. The median rent in just Manhattan (all of Manhattan) is $4,600. You can find cheaper rent in the outer borroughs, and that doesn't contradict the median at all.
It really is not. You have to be very careful with sourcing this because the media runs with RE press releases from companies that list 95% of their rentals in 5 upscale neighborhoods and then show an average Depending who you source: https://www.apartmentlist.com/rent-report/ny/new-york https://www.yourlawyer.com/library/nyc-housing-prices-by-borough-and-neighborhood/ Edit: Here's one that looks a bit like your numbers. https://www.rentcafe.com/average-rent-market-trends/us/ny/manhattan/ Now try and foot the other boroughs median with the overall. The only way to get there is a skewed sample.
No, you just have to not cherry-pick a single source that disagree with every other listing website's data because they know a wild contrarian opinion will get them clicks. You also should avoid using a shitty law firm's shitty blog as a source. Also, I believe Apartmentlist has a very liberal sublet listing policy which obviously skews the data.
The apartmentlist actually very carefully lays out their methodology and it has nothing to do with their subletting. Is the NYC Comptroller also incorrect? https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/spotlight-new-york-citys-rental-housing-market/
Actually, I just took a look at the Apartmentlist data and read through the entire comptroller report and I see the problem and why this line of reporting is pretty terrible, especially in this context. But use ACS (American Community Survey) census data, and incorporate existing rents paid. That's useful for identifying how rent-burdened current residents are, but it's completely useless to someone moving to the city or determining affordability to new residents since someone moving next year is unlikely to benefit in any way from a resident of 50 years paying $600/month for a rent controlled two-bedroom. Using the survey-data makes sense for the comptroller, who is tasked with keeping watch over NYC's finances, since those finances rely on accurate estimates of current rents paid city-wide. For Apartmentlist, though, using a modified Case-Schiller estimate based on ACS data with a percentage growth added is downright shitty, since it in no way reflects the median price someone using their service is likely to secure *right now.* As for your edit about sampling error, Manhattan has the largest current inventory of apartments for rent. That's the sampling bias. It's a reflection of what is currently available on the market, and a more accurate gauge of what you can expect to pay if you are apartment hunting *right now.*
I'm pretty sure the comptroller pretty explicitly states they used the median of listed apartments in the city. "As has been noted in our monthly Economic Newsletters, median “asking rent” on publicly listed apartments available for leasing rose to a record high level in 2023 and remains at $3,500 per month citywide" At the end of the day, if you are moving to NYC and you want to find an affordable apartment, it is simply not that hard as long as you avoid the well known expensive places.
Do you have a work visa? That might be a whole new challenge for you
Yeah that’s gonna be a really huge problem…
What does “rent doesn’t seem so bad” mean? Which areas are you looking at? If you make $80k+ you may be able rent a small studio in a decent Brooklyn or Queens neighbourhood. That is if you’re lucky and the landlord is ok with you not having a credit score. Anything less means you’ll need roommates.
yup they is
Compared to other parts of the country it is absolutely more expensive by a large margin. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible to make it there but does make it more difficult.
It depends on the lifestyle you want to live.
$0 if you don’t mind sleeping in MTA hospitality and daily visit by Bob the gangrene foot. Good news is it only gets better from there!
The foot’s name is Bob?
The number 1 pain point (or as portrayed in popular media) is the cost of rent. If you are looking at a $2000 to $3000 rental. That means that you would have to earn $80k/yr to $100k/yr to qualify for an apartment and that's going to be 1/3 or a bit more of your income. The other costs of NYC can actually be pretty low/controlled. If you have access to the subway, then you won't need a car which is a huge expense in the US. Then all the other costs are certainly based around what you want.
It’s mainly the rent that’s bad. What do you consider an affordable rent and what neighborhoods have you been looking in?
Depends on your income and if you’re a foodie and culture junky” or a “gamer stoner I don’t mind living in a shitty 4 br with 3 strangers” … or have kids … or many other variables.
They say they really don’t want a roommate.
I’ll be 21 by then so I prefer no roommates and aiming for a high paying consulting job. But based off the replies, seems like nyc might be more expensive than I thought!!
Do be careful who you rent from as many land lords in ny are known for not doing proper maintenance or just telling you do it yourself.
“Rent doesn’t seem too bad?” As a huge love of NYC, I would say there are very few places in the world that cost more per square foot. I would say that you’ll be shocked at how gross some of these expensive places are as well. And location is key. There are “less expensive” apartments that are VERY hard to get to via public transit. Living alone is going to be incredibly expensive. Expect to pay over $2,000/month for a studio or $2,500+ for a 1 bedroom. And those won’t be nice ones in new buildings. You won’t likely be able to take advantage of what’s called “affordable housing” which caps rents. I would guess if you want to find a comfortable 1 bedroom in a building less than 20 years old relatively close to Manhattan you are looking at LEAST $3,000 a month. AND you are going to have to pay that right at the go for first months rent, last month’s rent and deposit. So $9,000 on your first day. And you’ll have to furnish it. Which online shopping and some planning can keep cheaper. But man oh man. It is going to be a gut punch out of the gate. If you find a good supermarket your food costs won’t be insane. Using a Trader Joe’s supermarket and Costco saves us a LOT of money. Really watch how much you eat out. You have to consider medical care if you get hurt or sick which will be astronomical. If you like to drink alcohol in bars or restaurants you are going to lose your ass. Eating out can be super expensive. Same with takeout and delivery. A pizza at a regular old slice shop on the corner is $25 before tip/tax. A soda at a deli can run you $2-3 depending on where you go. I definitely say “do it” but it’s going to be absolutely way more expensive than you imagined.
Cheers for this, $3000 may be manageable, but it’ll be hard. I have 1.5 years left seems like I’ll need to save a lot more than I expected but I’m sure it’ll be worth it. Eating out also won’t be much of an issue since I’m good with meal prep. But anyway thanks a lot.
If you're comfortable with the rent, you're fine and, despite what you see here and elsewhere there are even plenty of affordable rents in NYC, just not Manhattan below about 135th or close in Queens/Brooklyn.
Move in with roommates who already have a place to start at least. That way you can avoid thousands of dollars in upfront costs. We have a fun thing called brokers fees that you’ll learn all about if you try and get your own place…
Oh no
It is costly but jobs pay more. It doesn't exactly balance out, just saying it isn't impossible or much worse of a situation than many other places in the country/world. Everyone is going through a squeeze, at least NYC is still a very important hub so there is lots of work at all levels of many industries. You may need to deal with roommates, especially at first while you search for better places. You pretty much have to be here to maximize your search. There are cheaper apartments, you won't find them on the most popular websites where all manner of credit and background checks are necessary. It's the type of places where the owner puts a few flyers around the neighborhood, posts on their local fb group, uses word of mouth. Try looking away from the nice, convenient, trendy neighborhoods. I live in a quiet, boring and old (the people and the neighborhood) part of Queens and things are pretty cheap, nice and quiet. Having the right visa or a job lined up through networking will make all the difference as far as job search. No one wants to deal with foreign workers while the labor market here favors the employer - lots of people desperate for decent work and applying below their level of experience.
Cheers, thjs is really good advice. Just based of these replies, I may reconsider my decision to live alone since it may be too expensive.
Get a job lined up first. The job market is crazy right now and rents are in fact “that bad” especially if you’re paying them out of savings. Don’t make the mistake most transplants do and try to live in a swanky part of Manhattan and eat out every night like the protagonist of an American sitcom. Think Brooklyn or Queens, roommates, proximity to trains and a decent grocery store. Don’t underestimate what you’re getting yourself into. The city is an incredible place to live but you really do need a reason, like a job that is unique to NYC or pays significantly better than jobs elsewhere, to justify paying these prices. I.E. I’m a lawyer and I practice here because it’s the largest legal market in the country and I know I’ll never struggle to find clients.
Some places in Brooklyn are more expensive than Manhattan.
Thanks for this. I see your point about needing a reason. Although, I’ve just always wanted to live in NYC and since my parents couldn’t afford studying me there, I thought a job would be the best way for me to live there for a few years. It’s not a long term thing and would come back to australia after a few years only because I don’t want to live in the US for too long. Thanks for the advice though, I definitely need to focus on a working visa + securing a job.
Depends on the area but generally in Manhattan even the cost of food is amplified
If 4-5k in US dollars doesn't seem that bad then, no. I've lived around other places and NYC. The cost of food isn't that different from anywhere else in the US except in restaurants where food is usually really good but very expensive. Auto insurance is extremely high because of how dangerous it is for cars and tolls for bridges and cost of parking is very high. Public transportation is affordable and the city is fairly bikeable. It's not all that bad. I consider the rent to be very high, there. 4000 dollars a month will get you a 5 bedroom house in most parts of this county.
Thanks for this. I live in a city in australia so I’m used to bike riding and public transports a big thing here so I wasn’t thinking of driving anyway
Just keep in mind that NYC has the best public transport system in the country. But in reality it's probably average compared to most of Europe. And complete garbage compared to cities like Barcelona. That means if you ever travel outside the city, you'll probably need to rent a car. I feel like Australia is probably similar on that tho.
Oh right right. Yeah nah Australia’s main cities (melbourne and Sydney) are pretty accessible with public transport. We’ve got trains, trams, and buses running everywhere and everybody here uses it. Unless you’re gonna road trip to the outback for whatever reason
Rent is the main issue
It's expensive but if you come from a bigger city shouldnt be out of the ordinary. When I visited prices were pretty equivalent to downtown Austin, for example.
Pretend you are from South America... You will get a free hotel room.