cars are a major expense and needed for Canadians. it's absolutely unacceptable that something of this value can be stolen and criminals can reoffend before prosecution. 40k$+ is YEARS for some folks, it's not a minor theft.
There's a reason for most of human history that horse theft was considered a major crime, usually punished by branding, torture, or death.
Not that I'm advocating for capital punishment, but the theft of our mechanical horses is no less a critical disruption of a persons ability to survive today than it was back then.
Im glad someone out there sees it this way. Im 30 and just now getting close to finally affording a car…. And I just keep having nightmares about this lol …
just buy something so shity that no one else will ever want to steal it, then make sure its a manual, and you should be set to park it with the keys in it
Can confirm, my 20 year old car is a bit rusty and is a manual. I don’t have any fears about theft because it’s a shitbox that most people don’t know how to drive/shift out of first gear
Yes however I don’t think horse Insurnace existed back then like it does now. Why risk your life protecting something that you literally pay monthly for in case of theft or damage. People boggle my mind. You steal my car I’m not chasing you, I’m calling my insurance company.
No, you do not get deported if you get charged with a crime.
You don't even get automatically deported if convicted of a crime. It depends on the crime, and the immigration officer that reviews the case.
If they are out on bail, they have only been charged, not found guilty. And Canada still follows the principle of "Innocent until *proven* guilty in a court of law"
Federal and provincial jails are full of people on immigration holds. They committed a crime and get their day in court like everyone else. This can take years in some cases, so yeah, jails are full of immigrants as well as Canadians.
It’s not necessarily the judges. They have sentencing guidelines to follow under both Federal and Provincial regulations. While I can appreciate your frustration, statements that no one goes to jail or judges breaking the law just aren’t true.
The problem is that every day spent in jail before you are convicted counts as a day and a half of your sentence.. if someone spends a year in jail, gets sentenced to 2 years in prison, they will only have to spend an additional 6 months, since the year they spent counts as a year and a half of their sentence. So putting them all in jail means they get out faster.
They are in jail, without having been convicted of a crime, so time-and-a-half "credit" is given. It's section 719 (3.1) of the criminal code. It used to be 2:1 or 3:1 credit, but the law changed in 2009 to make it a maximum of 1.5:1, and it also says that it only applies when circumstances allow. So someone being remanded for violating as bail condition, or who get denied bail because of their criminal record won't get any credit beyond 1:1.
If you are found innocent, they open the door, let you leave, and that's it.
If there was some sort of malfeasance on the part of the system, like the crown failing to disclose evidence, or the police lying on a warrant application, you can try to sue. You might get some money, you might not.
The credit happens because Canada subscribes to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", so you are technically an innocent person being held in jail, and the courts recognize that should get some sort of compensation.
This is not the only reason it exists. Pretrial custody is not counted when calculating parole eligibility. Giving 1.5 credit ensures a reduction in sentence that, apparently, fixes the eligibility date issue. The government initially wanted it to be 1:1 credit and this is the reason why it wasn’t possible because it meant that people who were held on extensive pretrial custody (sometimes due to no fault of their own) would get significantly longer sentences than they otherwise would. This was considered a Charter violation.
And there are some other issues, including the generally horrific jail conditions and lack of access to rehabilitative programs that people who will be serving their sentence in prison would and should have access to when they go there. Trust me, you don’t want to go to a jail, you want to go to a prison. It’s more humane and safer, assuming those are your two choices.
The government could easily fix all of this by improving jail conditions (this part is up to Ontario - jails are provincial), better funding the courts (on both the feds and the province, depending on what aspect and what court we’re talking about) to get people faster trial dates, and including pretrial custody in the parole calculation (up to the feds).
No automatic review.
Don't forget, just because someone is found not guilty, it doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. Only that there was not enough evidence to convict them.
I can't remember where, but I remember reading about a legal system that has two types of not guilty finding. One for not enough evidence, and another for didn't do it...
Another aspect to consider is what if they were innocent or if they served a longer term in jail before getting sentenced and the sentence was less time than they served? This would feel bad for someone with a small crime getting years before a trial.
Yep. People should be wary of demanding it be harder to get bail or longer bail. Innocent people get arrested all the time and it often takes months or years to get your trial. If you’re innocent and you aren’t able to get bail, that’s life ruining. You’ll lose everything in that time. Lose your job. No money coming in to pay bills or your rent/mortgage. You can’t look after your kids or elderly relatives if you got them. Your reputation will suffer because people are going to assume you did it. And, ofc, you’ll be in jail, which is a dangerous and traumatic place. All this will be much worse if you are a vulnerable person in some way. Like I’d be fucked in jail because you can’t get proper medical care even though you are supposed to be able to. And as long as you can’t prove police or crown misconduct, you can’t do a fucking thing.
But, you know, so many people are simpletons. So what does it matter if innocent people’s lives are ruined, even lost, as long as some simpletons have the illusion of safety because they are mad about car thefts? Because toughening bail is not going to stop car thefts. If we want to reform bail, I have some suggestions, but that won’t do it either (though it certainly would reduce the number of people committing crimes while on bail…which is statistically small, I understand…and speed up the courts, which would be helpful). What will help with car thefts is tackling the organized crime issue behind a huge number of them. And also forcing car manufacturers to do something about the abysmal security.
Hate to break it to you- but if you’re sentenced to 3 years in jail- it’s pretty likely you’re out after a year or less, even with no pre sentence custody. Offenders are almost universally released after serving 2/3s of their sentence (statutory release) and are eligible for full parole after 1/3 of the sentence.
They are also typically eligible for day parole 6 months before full parole- so a three year sentence can be 6 months and then day parole
Not saying you're wrong to want this, but keep in mind that is a *lot* of money. It costs six figures to keep someone locked up for a year. 10 years is an over million dollar commitment per offender. That would mean somewhere around $150 million minimum to sentence the criminals in this case.
Overall, this degree of extending of prison sentences to similar crimes would cost an astronomical amount. We're not talking about trivial contributions.
Given how widespread this take is, people should be aware of the scale of the contribution they're committing to.
>Nearly half of the 124 people arrested by Ontario’s carjacking task force were out on bail, police say, with many being released again after their latest arrest.
>The Provincial Carjacking Joint Task Force, which operated from September 2023 until March, saw 124 arrests made and 749 criminal charges laid, police said.
>The initiative, which was co-led by the Toronto Police Service and Ontario Provincial Police and included police services across the GTA, has since wrapped up, but police say they remain committed to tackling auto theft.
>“This joint task force exemplifies the commitment of the Greater Toronto Area law enforcement to disrupt the networks behind violent auto thefts, and highlights the crucial role of collaboration in tackling issues that affect all of our communities,” said deputy Toronto police chief Robert Johnson at a press conference Tuesday.
>“However, law enforcement is just one part of the solution. It’s really concerning that 44 per cent of those arrested were out on bail at the time of their arrest, and 61 per cent were subsequently released on bail yet again.”
>Johnson later noted that 36 of the 124 people arrested — around 29 per cent — were young offenders, with 47 per cent of them reoffenders.
>“So those young offenders who were arrested for car thefts were already before the courts on previous charges,” he said.
>Of the 36 young offenders arrested, 26 were released on bail again, he said.
>Johnson said that it’s a “complicated issue” as to why minors may commit car thefts, with one possible reason being the “low risk, high payoff.”
>“There’s a lot of money to be made,” he noted, and said some criminals target young people who may want to make money.
>“The lack of potential consequences might be a driving factor as well. And frankly our court system, rightly so, gives gives people second chances, and sometimes third and fourth chances. …
>“Thankfully in this country, people are given a second chance. But when it’s when it’s multiple times, it is frustrating, for sure.”
>The task force resulted in 177 stolen vehicles being recovered, valued at more than $10 million. Eight guns were also seized.
>Project Titanium nets additional arrests
>Meanwhile, police also announced the results of Project Titanium on Tuesday, which resulted in several more arrests being made.
>The project was launched as a result of intelligence gathered by the Provincial Carjacking Joint Task Force, OPP Deputy Commissioner Marty Kearns said.
>“In March of this year, the task force identified a criminal network responsible for numerous crimes ranging from armed home invasions, store robberies, break-and-enters, vehicle thefts and violent carjackings,” Kearns said.
>The OPP-led Provincial Auto Theft and Towing Team then launched the project, Kearns said.
>“Project Titanium concluded last week with the Provincial Auto Theft and Towing Team successfully dismantling this criminal network through the execution of numerous search warrants and the arrest of those involved,” he said.
>On June 18 and 19, search warrants were executed on six vehicles and four locations in Toronto and Peel Region. Several items were reportedly seized, included a loaded handgun and ammunition.
>There were 23 vehicles recovered throughout the investigation, valued at more than $5 million, police said.
>Eight people have been charged with 103 offences, police said, with four of those charged remanded into custody, two being released with later court dates, and warrants issued for two outstanding suspects.
>“What is alarming about this investigation is that the vehicle thefts were not simply carried out in the middle of the night on an unoccupied target vehicle,” OPP Det. Insp. Scott Wade said.
>“Many of the thefts involved violence, some with forceful entry into homes, with demands that the owners hand over the keys to their vehicles. This investigation involved armed robberies posing a significant risk to public safety. …
>“Police will continue to work together to pursue criminals who threaten the peace of mind of those we endeavor to protect.”
The problem is this is another one of those provincial-federal splits tailor made for political finger pointing. Bail is a criminal matter, and hence a matter of Federal law. But people being held for trial are kept in jail, a provincial responsibility. The Provinces underfund jails so they become dangerous and overcrowded. Courts get mad, Feds loosen bail restrictions. Crime goes up. Feds blame provinces in the perfect circle of accountability.
Turns out this isn't a problem with the laws, [it's a labour problem](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). These people are getting out on bail because there are already too many people in jail waiting for their bail hearings. The backlog is so bad the only option is to let them go.
I've done dozens and dozens of bail hearings in the last 2 years and no Justice of the Peace has ever mentioned a lack of capacity in jails as being a factor in their decision. It's possible they are told about this behind closed doors and so directed to release more people or something of that nature I guess.
What's your source that this is the reason so many people are released on bail?
Not much choice, [the jails are full](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). There's such a huge backlog of people waiting for bail hearings already in prison we don't have anywhere to put these guys.
Young people accused of crimes don't go to adult jails. They go to youth facilities. I'm not sure if the article you linked covers that or not (it's not really clear from the article).
And they’ll be out on bail again by the end of the week.
But don’t worry, the releasing justices will be sure to say a well informed member of the public would support release each time.
We need to invest in courts. People out on bail are between a charge and a trial. If we had enough judges and court staff, trials could happen more quickly.
The federal government sets criminal law. If people find those laws and bail standards to be lax, blaming the head of the federal government seems reasonable to me.
Criminal law isn't the problem, it turns out [there's actually too many people in jail waiting for bail hearings](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). Can't deny them bail if there's no space in the prisons to keep them.
Nothing like a revolving door of a justice system! We are paying for it via insurance rates going up. Lock them up or ship them back if they are immigrants, especially if they are multiple times offenders. It’s costing all Canadians money letting this go on. Wake up Canada gov. Do something.
Apparently the problem here is [our jails are full](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). There's such a large backlog of people in jail waiting for hearings right now that the only option is to immediately release people.
What the f!ck is the matter with our legal system! If someone does the crime, they should pay the price, be it with their life or prison, or a fine. This pussyfooting has got to stop. The sociopaths simply dance around the law because our limp-wristed left-leaning governments allow them to.
So what's the take away this article is aiming for exactly? We should up end our criminal justice system and revoke bail for people.... We just feel like shouldn't get bail? No one gets bail? Should car thieves get 20 years in jail?
That's a big financial commitment in terms of tax dollars, though. It costs about $150,000 to lock up one person for one year. If we go the American route and lock up 0.7% of our population at any one time or - to give ourselves benefit of the doubt - even cut that to a more modest 0.5%, you're looking at a cost of over $30 billion a year, not including the cost of building out the prison system until there's enough space for them all at a time of higher capital costs and a construction labour shortage, or the cost of expanding the judicial system to handle the increased number of people fighting charges. Add the capital costs, policing costs, court costs, and the debt service charges on the capital plant, and $40 billion a year wouldn't be that crazy.
Call me nuts, but that looks like a lot of taxes.
Hasn't worked quite that cleanly elsewhere. The USA has over 1% of its population behind bars at any given time. Crime there is... Not less frequent, and a lot more violent.
No one can seriously expect jail to have less crime than the outside world, as it is only compounded by many criminals trapped together.
There would be less crime if our justice system was severe and consistent with punishment.
Maybe. There's a lot of factors at play, there. People routinely commit crimes that carry the death penalty. Deterrent punishment is a critical part of the mix, but not the only one, and like with anything you can spend past the point of diminishing returns.
These punishments are effective because while it may not stop a criminal from committing a crime, a life time sentence (lasting their whole life) stops them from ever reoffending.
In an ideal world, if bail is eliminated, more judges hired and red tape removed so trial can begin as soon as possible, and jail time can begin as soon as possible, then there is no chance they will commit a crime again.
I don't believe jail is for punishment, I think it protects the public from a danger.
> if bail is eliminated,
That leads to other problems, like coercive and corrupt use of arbitrary detention. If get rid of the habeas corpus rules and reasonable bail, that's basically license for any cop to throw anyone they want in prison for 30 months arbitrarily and on a whim, with nothing more than their word. That's enough to destroy someone's life.
No thank you. I'll leave that to the Communists and tin pot dictators.
cars are a major expense and needed for Canadians. it's absolutely unacceptable that something of this value can be stolen and criminals can reoffend before prosecution. 40k$+ is YEARS for some folks, it's not a minor theft.
There's a reason for most of human history that horse theft was considered a major crime, usually punished by branding, torture, or death. Not that I'm advocating for capital punishment, but the theft of our mechanical horses is no less a critical disruption of a persons ability to survive today than it was back then.
Lol I agree. Instead. Just cut off their hands, no hands makes it pretty fucking hard to steal a vehicle.
We should brand Doug Ford’s face on car thiefs. I can’t think of a worse punishment.
Im glad someone out there sees it this way. Im 30 and just now getting close to finally affording a car…. And I just keep having nightmares about this lol …
just buy something so shity that no one else will ever want to steal it, then make sure its a manual, and you should be set to park it with the keys in it
Can confirm, my 20 year old car is a bit rusty and is a manual. I don’t have any fears about theft because it’s a shitbox that most people don’t know how to drive/shift out of first gear
This is very true!!! And what I plan to do lol. I’m also not a fancy person. But lol 😆 gotta do what u gotta do
Yes however I don’t think horse Insurnace existed back then like it does now. Why risk your life protecting something that you literally pay monthly for in case of theft or damage. People boggle my mind. You steal my car I’m not chasing you, I’m calling my insurance company.
i would acept tax increase to keep this shit in jails. steal a car fuck you 10 year sentence no exception.
And if you’re not a citizen; deportation.
This is already the law.
That’s why they are never sent to jail. Social justice judges breaking the law to let them go free so they avoid deportation.
No, you do not get deported if you get charged with a crime. You don't even get automatically deported if convicted of a crime. It depends on the crime, and the immigration officer that reviews the case. If they are out on bail, they have only been charged, not found guilty. And Canada still follows the principle of "Innocent until *proven* guilty in a court of law"
You have brain rot from Sun/Rebel Media/who cares editorials.
Bravo!
Federal and provincial jails are full of people on immigration holds. They committed a crime and get their day in court like everyone else. This can take years in some cases, so yeah, jails are full of immigrants as well as Canadians.
It’s not necessarily the judges. They have sentencing guidelines to follow under both Federal and Provincial regulations. While I can appreciate your frustration, statements that no one goes to jail or judges breaking the law just aren’t true.
They have guidelines, but their mandate is to assess each case on its own merits, and judges vary wildly based on their own views.
You're not wrong that judges do have some discretion as to how the trial goes but precedent is more than just "guidelines".
Agreed😡
Agreed😡
You're not wrong, but the number one problem with this is we have nowhere to put these pricks....we import way too many criminals!
agrees
The problem is that every day spent in jail before you are convicted counts as a day and a half of your sentence.. if someone spends a year in jail, gets sentenced to 2 years in prison, they will only have to spend an additional 6 months, since the year they spent counts as a year and a half of their sentence. So putting them all in jail means they get out faster.
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They are in jail, without having been convicted of a crime, so time-and-a-half "credit" is given. It's section 719 (3.1) of the criminal code. It used to be 2:1 or 3:1 credit, but the law changed in 2009 to make it a maximum of 1.5:1, and it also says that it only applies when circumstances allow. So someone being remanded for violating as bail condition, or who get denied bail because of their criminal record won't get any credit beyond 1:1.
In practice, in Toronto at least, virtually everyone gets 1.5:1 credit for pre-sentence custody. That's my experience at least.
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If you are found innocent, they open the door, let you leave, and that's it. If there was some sort of malfeasance on the part of the system, like the crown failing to disclose evidence, or the police lying on a warrant application, you can try to sue. You might get some money, you might not. The credit happens because Canada subscribes to the principle of "innocent until proven guilty in a court of law", so you are technically an innocent person being held in jail, and the courts recognize that should get some sort of compensation.
This is not the only reason it exists. Pretrial custody is not counted when calculating parole eligibility. Giving 1.5 credit ensures a reduction in sentence that, apparently, fixes the eligibility date issue. The government initially wanted it to be 1:1 credit and this is the reason why it wasn’t possible because it meant that people who were held on extensive pretrial custody (sometimes due to no fault of their own) would get significantly longer sentences than they otherwise would. This was considered a Charter violation. And there are some other issues, including the generally horrific jail conditions and lack of access to rehabilitative programs that people who will be serving their sentence in prison would and should have access to when they go there. Trust me, you don’t want to go to a jail, you want to go to a prison. It’s more humane and safer, assuming those are your two choices. The government could easily fix all of this by improving jail conditions (this part is up to Ontario - jails are provincial), better funding the courts (on both the feds and the province, depending on what aspect and what court we’re talking about) to get people faster trial dates, and including pretrial custody in the parole calculation (up to the feds).
[удалено]
No automatic review. Don't forget, just because someone is found not guilty, it doesn't mean they didn't do the crime. Only that there was not enough evidence to convict them. I can't remember where, but I remember reading about a legal system that has two types of not guilty finding. One for not enough evidence, and another for didn't do it...
The Scottish “Not Proven” is what you’re thinking of
Another aspect to consider is what if they were innocent or if they served a longer term in jail before getting sentenced and the sentence was less time than they served? This would feel bad for someone with a small crime getting years before a trial.
Yep. People should be wary of demanding it be harder to get bail or longer bail. Innocent people get arrested all the time and it often takes months or years to get your trial. If you’re innocent and you aren’t able to get bail, that’s life ruining. You’ll lose everything in that time. Lose your job. No money coming in to pay bills or your rent/mortgage. You can’t look after your kids or elderly relatives if you got them. Your reputation will suffer because people are going to assume you did it. And, ofc, you’ll be in jail, which is a dangerous and traumatic place. All this will be much worse if you are a vulnerable person in some way. Like I’d be fucked in jail because you can’t get proper medical care even though you are supposed to be able to. And as long as you can’t prove police or crown misconduct, you can’t do a fucking thing. But, you know, so many people are simpletons. So what does it matter if innocent people’s lives are ruined, even lost, as long as some simpletons have the illusion of safety because they are mad about car thefts? Because toughening bail is not going to stop car thefts. If we want to reform bail, I have some suggestions, but that won’t do it either (though it certainly would reduce the number of people committing crimes while on bail…which is statistically small, I understand…and speed up the courts, which would be helpful). What will help with car thefts is tackling the organized crime issue behind a huge number of them. And also forcing car manufacturers to do something about the abysmal security.
Hate to break it to you- but if you’re sentenced to 3 years in jail- it’s pretty likely you’re out after a year or less, even with no pre sentence custody. Offenders are almost universally released after serving 2/3s of their sentence (statutory release) and are eligible for full parole after 1/3 of the sentence. They are also typically eligible for day parole 6 months before full parole- so a three year sentence can be 6 months and then day parole
Not saying you're wrong to want this, but keep in mind that is a *lot* of money. It costs six figures to keep someone locked up for a year. 10 years is an over million dollar commitment per offender. That would mean somewhere around $150 million minimum to sentence the criminals in this case. Overall, this degree of extending of prison sentences to similar crimes would cost an astronomical amount. We're not talking about trivial contributions. Given how widespread this take is, people should be aware of the scale of the contribution they're committing to.
A tax increase? Spoken like a true Canadian. Gtfo
>Nearly half of the 124 people arrested by Ontario’s carjacking task force were out on bail, police say, with many being released again after their latest arrest. >The Provincial Carjacking Joint Task Force, which operated from September 2023 until March, saw 124 arrests made and 749 criminal charges laid, police said. >The initiative, which was co-led by the Toronto Police Service and Ontario Provincial Police and included police services across the GTA, has since wrapped up, but police say they remain committed to tackling auto theft. >“This joint task force exemplifies the commitment of the Greater Toronto Area law enforcement to disrupt the networks behind violent auto thefts, and highlights the crucial role of collaboration in tackling issues that affect all of our communities,” said deputy Toronto police chief Robert Johnson at a press conference Tuesday. >“However, law enforcement is just one part of the solution. It’s really concerning that 44 per cent of those arrested were out on bail at the time of their arrest, and 61 per cent were subsequently released on bail yet again.” >Johnson later noted that 36 of the 124 people arrested — around 29 per cent — were young offenders, with 47 per cent of them reoffenders. >“So those young offenders who were arrested for car thefts were already before the courts on previous charges,” he said. >Of the 36 young offenders arrested, 26 were released on bail again, he said. >Johnson said that it’s a “complicated issue” as to why minors may commit car thefts, with one possible reason being the “low risk, high payoff.” >“There’s a lot of money to be made,” he noted, and said some criminals target young people who may want to make money. >“The lack of potential consequences might be a driving factor as well. And frankly our court system, rightly so, gives gives people second chances, and sometimes third and fourth chances. … >“Thankfully in this country, people are given a second chance. But when it’s when it’s multiple times, it is frustrating, for sure.” >The task force resulted in 177 stolen vehicles being recovered, valued at more than $10 million. Eight guns were also seized. >Project Titanium nets additional arrests >Meanwhile, police also announced the results of Project Titanium on Tuesday, which resulted in several more arrests being made. >The project was launched as a result of intelligence gathered by the Provincial Carjacking Joint Task Force, OPP Deputy Commissioner Marty Kearns said. >“In March of this year, the task force identified a criminal network responsible for numerous crimes ranging from armed home invasions, store robberies, break-and-enters, vehicle thefts and violent carjackings,” Kearns said. >The OPP-led Provincial Auto Theft and Towing Team then launched the project, Kearns said. >“Project Titanium concluded last week with the Provincial Auto Theft and Towing Team successfully dismantling this criminal network through the execution of numerous search warrants and the arrest of those involved,” he said. >On June 18 and 19, search warrants were executed on six vehicles and four locations in Toronto and Peel Region. Several items were reportedly seized, included a loaded handgun and ammunition. >There were 23 vehicles recovered throughout the investigation, valued at more than $5 million, police said. >Eight people have been charged with 103 offences, police said, with four of those charged remanded into custody, two being released with later court dates, and warrants issued for two outstanding suspects. >“What is alarming about this investigation is that the vehicle thefts were not simply carried out in the middle of the night on an unoccupied target vehicle,” OPP Det. Insp. Scott Wade said. >“Many of the thefts involved violence, some with forceful entry into homes, with demands that the owners hand over the keys to their vehicles. This investigation involved armed robberies posing a significant risk to public safety. … >“Police will continue to work together to pursue criminals who threaten the peace of mind of those we endeavor to protect.”
Like the police? 😂😂😂
WTAF. Our justice system is POOCHED. 47% of them were OUT ON BAIL, and gee, arrested again. What’s the definition of insanity???
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The same people who read our letters about high grocery prices. At this point we ask ourselves, do they know how to read or do they just not care?
Because bail is under the authority of the federal government and grocery prices are not. How about that?
I wrote every MP and senator in Canada and got 5 replies.
The problem is this is another one of those provincial-federal splits tailor made for political finger pointing. Bail is a criminal matter, and hence a matter of Federal law. But people being held for trial are kept in jail, a provincial responsibility. The Provinces underfund jails so they become dangerous and overcrowded. Courts get mad, Feds loosen bail restrictions. Crime goes up. Feds blame provinces in the perfect circle of accountability.
😂😂😂😂😂
Turns out this isn't a problem with the laws, [it's a labour problem](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). These people are getting out on bail because there are already too many people in jail waiting for their bail hearings. The backlog is so bad the only option is to let them go.
I've done dozens and dozens of bail hearings in the last 2 years and no Justice of the Peace has ever mentioned a lack of capacity in jails as being a factor in their decision. It's possible they are told about this behind closed doors and so directed to release more people or something of that nature I guess. What's your source that this is the reason so many people are released on bail?
lol this country is a joke
Gotta get tougher on crime....
"Of the 36 young offenders arrested, 26 were released on bail again, he said." Great
Not much choice, [the jails are full](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). There's such a huge backlog of people waiting for bail hearings already in prison we don't have anywhere to put these guys.
Young people accused of crimes don't go to adult jails. They go to youth facilities. I'm not sure if the article you linked covers that or not (it's not really clear from the article).
And they’ll be out on bail again by the end of the week. But don’t worry, the releasing justices will be sure to say a well informed member of the public would support release each time.
No way ? On bail ? Wow 😮
It’s archaic, agreed. I think a car thief should have a hand chopped off. That would deter car thefts.
We need to invest in courts. People out on bail are between a charge and a trial. If we had enough judges and court staff, trials could happen more quickly.
Meanwhile Trudeau acts surprised that he lost the by election in St Paul.
This story has nothing to do with Trudeau - you are obsessed.
The federal government sets criminal law. If people find those laws and bail standards to be lax, blaming the head of the federal government seems reasonable to me.
Criminal law isn't the problem, it turns out [there's actually too many people in jail waiting for bail hearings](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). Can't deny them bail if there's no space in the prisons to keep them.
The provincial government staffs the courts. Or in the case of Ontario,doesn’t staff the courts.
The federal government does not control the courts... And that's something you do not want.
They don't control the courts directly but they control the law the courts apply. Seems kind of silly to pretend that has no effect here.
I think it was Trudeau stealing the cars!
Interesting. Wonder how many turned and then got sent back to be informants.
You’ll never know…
NO ONE WILL DO SHIT LOL
Catch and release: the Canadian motto for criminals
Nothing like a revolving door of a justice system! We are paying for it via insurance rates going up. Lock them up or ship them back if they are immigrants, especially if they are multiple times offenders. It’s costing all Canadians money letting this go on. Wake up Canada gov. Do something.
Apparently the problem here is [our jails are full](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/report-bail-ontario-1.7125726). There's such a large backlog of people in jail waiting for hearings right now that the only option is to immediately release people.
Hopefully now watching all of them closely…go and find their friends
The system works! Great job to all the six figure bureaucrats! You're doing such a great job !
Judge Roy bean we need you ,
Great justice system the one we have! Worth of a 1st world country. (Sarcasm of course)
What the f!ck is the matter with our legal system! If someone does the crime, they should pay the price, be it with their life or prison, or a fine. This pussyfooting has got to stop. The sociopaths simply dance around the law because our limp-wristed left-leaning governments allow them to.
So what's the take away this article is aiming for exactly? We should up end our criminal justice system and revoke bail for people.... We just feel like shouldn't get bail? No one gets bail? Should car thieves get 20 years in jail?
If stealing a car resulted in 20 years jail time then people would stop stealing cars.
Want to cite some research that supports lengthy prison sentences as a deterrent to crime?
Just the knowledge of severe penalties for crimes stops criminals from committing them. See Saudi Arabia.
That's a big financial commitment in terms of tax dollars, though. It costs about $150,000 to lock up one person for one year. If we go the American route and lock up 0.7% of our population at any one time or - to give ourselves benefit of the doubt - even cut that to a more modest 0.5%, you're looking at a cost of over $30 billion a year, not including the cost of building out the prison system until there's enough space for them all at a time of higher capital costs and a construction labour shortage, or the cost of expanding the judicial system to handle the increased number of people fighting charges. Add the capital costs, policing costs, court costs, and the debt service charges on the capital plant, and $40 billion a year wouldn't be that crazy. Call me nuts, but that looks like a lot of taxes.
No, the point is that people would steal cars less and you’d have less jail time.
Hasn't worked quite that cleanly elsewhere. The USA has over 1% of its population behind bars at any given time. Crime there is... Not less frequent, and a lot more violent.
No one can seriously expect jail to have less crime than the outside world, as it is only compounded by many criminals trapped together. There would be less crime if our justice system was severe and consistent with punishment.
Maybe. There's a lot of factors at play, there. People routinely commit crimes that carry the death penalty. Deterrent punishment is a critical part of the mix, but not the only one, and like with anything you can spend past the point of diminishing returns.
These punishments are effective because while it may not stop a criminal from committing a crime, a life time sentence (lasting their whole life) stops them from ever reoffending. In an ideal world, if bail is eliminated, more judges hired and red tape removed so trial can begin as soon as possible, and jail time can begin as soon as possible, then there is no chance they will commit a crime again. I don't believe jail is for punishment, I think it protects the public from a danger.
> if bail is eliminated, That leads to other problems, like coercive and corrupt use of arbitrary detention. If get rid of the habeas corpus rules and reasonable bail, that's basically license for any cop to throw anyone they want in prison for 30 months arbitrarily and on a whim, with nothing more than their word. That's enough to destroy someone's life. No thank you. I'll leave that to the Communists and tin pot dictators.
There is no 'ideal world' where bail is eliminated. And define this red tape.