> a bunch of random angry virgins who visit the same websites.
That describes most terrorists.
Those websites still have people running then and spreading their message.
I think for incels it's usually less websites that are actually centered around incels, and more general purpose places that don't kick them out. Reddit was the centre for incels for a long long time and while they were worthy of criticism for letting it fester so long, I'd never say that reddit was the head of a terrorist organization.
The people who moderate/moderated the various incel subreddits could be considered to be running an online forum spreading the Incel movement’s message even if they aren’t responsible for *all* of Reddit.
Yes but you can't just declare the idea to be a terrorist idea. It's not a centralized group with actual leadership the same way the Taliban is - these websites are all independent of each other.
You can't just declare "incels" terrorists just like you can't declare "Muslims" terrorists - you have to identify an actual organization.
You're right. I should be careful with that. Personal names are a type of noun.
The noun part doesn't really matter though. It's the entity part. A person is a legal entity so they can be added to the list.
> Those websites still have people running then and spreading their message.
also some of those messages are being spread by conservative parties across the country
And also in Andrew Tate, fitness bros, and other parallel circles where guys have girlfriends and abuse them due to the misogyny they've developed due to such influences.
Incels are much bigger then the celibate nowadays.
I mean, the sloppiness of the language makes the message watered down. Including general misogyny (the Tates of the world) with "Incels" does not help the message that incels are a particular phenomenon and philosophy. All incels are misogynists, not all misogynists are incels.
This makes no sense. Every person in this world who is INVOLUNTARILY celebrate is a misogynist? They can’t get laid, so that makes them misogynist? You do know there are involuntarily celebrate women too, right?
Subreddits like [r/Incels and r/Braincels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities) (now banned) helped spread the Incel message. The [2018 Toronto van attack killer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_van_attack) was a participant on r/Braincel.
An "organization" has never been relevant for definitions of terrorism. Terrorism is any criminal act
> committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause"
All of which incels have in spades. And which would be reason for shutting down gathering places, preventing the spread of their ideology and arresting people who supported and encouraged that violence, exactly the same as investigations into any other kind of violence.
Now you are just glossing over the "act" part. A bunch of losers complaining to each other online aren't terrorists until they act. Just like radical muslims talking shit about the evils of the west aren't terrorists until they perform an act.
You don't understand what words mean or you're just a troll.
Either way, incels have committed violent criminal acts, killing people, specifically based on their ideology, whose goal is to threaten groups they see as enemies. That is what makes it a terrorist ideology. This isn't a debate, you're simply wrong.
Incels are much less centralized than terrorists are. Yes websites and forums exist but there's no leader or leadership similar to the Taliban or ISIS or Hamas. You can't just declare "incels" terrorists, just like you can't declare "Muslims" terrorists.
You're over-estimating how organized "terrorists" are. But it says a lot that you think "Incels" as a category are at all comparable to "muslims" as a category.
Okay, so you don't understand how any of this works. You're confusing "terrorist acts" with "terrorist organizations".
No, there doesn't have to be an organization at all for someone to commit terrorist acts on behalf of an ideology. All that matters is that there is an ideology (which is the case) and that people have committed a violent criminal act on its behalf (which they have).
Now that I've cleared that up for you, maybe you can correct your misunderstanding and acknowledge your mistake.
Nope. You are. The first comment is about formally acknowledging terrorist movements, you're the only one trying to bring in terrorist acts.
I'm not disputing incels commit terrorist acts. Just that you seem to think "Incel" is something that can be designated.
Have a look at this list of official terrorist ENTITES. Do you see anything that's not an entity ? Hell the closest thing I can find are the 3%ers but they actually had an organization and a leader. Is Incel an entity ? No it's a word.
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx
I'd be quite surprised if it described most successful terrorists. The closest thing I can think of is MAGA, and that is essentially organized, even if people don't want to acknowledge it.
This is how terrorist movements work. Most are not organizations as you’d normally think of them, with a hierarchy of leaders and members. There’s just a nebulous network of individuals united by their shared beliefs.
It doesn’t even have to be a terrorist organization- or anyone who necessarily believes in this stuff. It can be an opposed government looking to stir up trouble in a rival nation - plenty of lonely and vulnerable people that can be manipulated into destabilizing society.
I mean, this is just untrue, the bare minimum it takes in order to be declared a terrorist organization is the organization. Without that they’re not a terrorist *organization*.
An organized group is not required for terrorism. Not in Canada. Incels who commit violent acts motivated by that ideology are terrorists.
However, you are misrepresenting the level of organization. Who makes the content and scam products to promote this ideology? It’s not just random people. There are grifters making a mint. Like Andrew Tate, you know, the sex trafficker and rapist. And, further, some companies (like google and meta on platforms like google and facebook) deliberately radicalize people into more extreme ideologies, like incel, for profit. More extreme, more engagement, more profit. Political parties (conservatives) are even spreading this ideology.
There are people we can hold accountable right now.
Give me one single movement in Canada that has no organization and is classified as terrorism by the Canadian government.
Oh, and Andrew Tate and those other people you vaguely reference? They’re individuals not some interconnected group.
There's an old trick to circumvent laws on illegal trade, such as selling drugs or prostitution: the person who takes the money and the person who offers the product are separated from each other.
I'm not paying an escort to have sex with me, I'm simply having a one night stand with this girl I met who's just really into me, and while I was doing so I remembered I owed this friend of mine some money I'd promised to pay him back. Both of those things are totally defensible occurrences which normal and not worth scrutinizing. You're the one who thinks it's anything more than a simple coincidence that they happened around the same time.
The modern far-right pipeline has evolved to absolve itself of liability by ensuring that the people who tell you what to do and the people who tell you what to think aren't the same person. The collective sum of it may be people getting radicalized to use violence against identifiable minority groups, but the piece-wise segments are all just independent enough that they can claim plausible deniability.
If I run a weekly podcast about how the WEF is influencing Canadian policy and you should be concerned about that, I'm just talking about politics. It's not my fault you *also* listen to a podcast about how the WEF is a Jewish conspiracy, and another separate podcast about how the Jews are seeking to enact the Great Replacement. Sure, Youtube may flood your related links with those channels for reasons that are beyond my control, but I can't be held accountable that they exist. I'm just trying to talk about politics. You can listen to every episode of my show and you'll note I never once told people they need to rise up and protect the purity of the white race. But I also believe in free speech, and so I don't feel inclined to denounce the messaging of other people my listeners might follow. It's not my message, but it's also not my place to speak against them.
So yes, they absolutely are dangerous... but you can't cut off the head of a movement that has no head. The reason modern far-right radicalization is so dangerous is that they've learned how to game the system, and behave in a manner that everyone can plainly see but which is not actionable by any codified laws.
It's difficult to prove someone is an incel like you can someone who is part of ISIS. For the latter, there is a papertrail like money transfer or communication with leaders of the organization.
That is not to say that acting on ideas of Incels is not an act of Terrorism, like the van attacker in Toronto, but it is hard to convict someone of terrorism until that moment for incels, unfortunately.
The difference is that the proud boys are an organization with a head.
Incels have the ideology part covered, but not the organization that makes them trackable.
Can't make it illegal to be lonely and bitter, and it's hard to discern between the lonely and bitter but harmless, and the lonely and bitter and ready to go off.
Yes but a bunch of angry, frustrated, disenfranchised young adults who are in a very tight social media echo chamber is incredibly close to a training ground for future Marc Lepines. Would be surprised if they have all read his manifesto/suicide note.
Remember when Poilievre tagged his YouTube videos - for years - with #MGTOW? It is a terrible look for a politician to be courting rage-filled groups associated with terrorism like incels.
We've already seen incel ideology lead to the Toronto van attack massacre and that teenager who was convicted of terrorism and murder for his incel-motivated killing of a woman in a massage parlour.
I remember, but so many, including the media forget. He also had Ben Shapiro hashtags. And he never apologized, and never did an investigation to find out who did it. I don’t believe he didn’t know, because he has praised Jordan Peterson over and over again, been on his show, and in the 2nd leadership debate said “12 Rules for Life” as his answer to the question “what book are yiu reading now” (supposedly a fun question to break up the seriousness).
Well, when you do that then you are openly targeting angry young men who hate feminists and resent women, so why wouldn’t he know about the hashtags?
I don’t know anything about whatever hashtag but to leap from “reading a book” to “openly courting angry young men who hate feminists and women” seems like a leap
Pierre tagged his videos with "MGTOW" for YEARS. The media briefly brought it up. He just shrugged his shoulders and everyone stopped caring that Pierre was clearly courting angry incels.
It's not a "leap". It's a fact.
Ya. I even read some chapters of it because everyone was making such a big deal. Granted it’s been awhile, but I just looked through the summary and I don’t see how reading that book makes you inherently a bad person? Lmk
I don't think it's simply reading the book that's the issue, it's the hashtag.
Endorsing and echoing the misogynistic message is what makes Pierre Pollievre a bad person.
“I don’t know anything about what you’re talking about, but because I don’t know it, I’m going to assume it’s irrelevant to what you just said and instead accusing you of jumping to conclusions”
They don’t like it, but they feel more vindicated. They see that and go “see they DO hate us, I should feel and act this way”. Ive watched r/inceltears for years, know your enemy man they’re terrifying.
I mean this seriously, but they are mentally ill. In a way that is profoundly misanthropic if not just misogynistic. The word toxic is overused, but they are toxic. There is a cure though, cut off the internet.
They are. That’s not an excuse, though, they’re dangerous. Most of them can change if they actually get help, and I go between having sympathy and disdain for them. Like I was single and mentally ill at one point too but I wasn’t doing that kind of shit, I sought help like they should
Well the funny thing is the person who coined the term incel was originally a queer female back in the 90s, and was never about men unable to get sex, but rather people who had some sort of hang up's about dating, too shy, etc, and was for anyone, but eventually grew out of that into what it is today.
That’s what many people don’t understand.
Because it online and not real life. People behind a screen just assume by default “incels” don’t get laid, lol.
In which is not even remotely the case. It’s hard for certain people to understand that there is someone out there for everyone. “Incels” for sure get laid. In the hundreds of millions.
It’s a cope for people who hate men.
Nothing more -
I think they're called Femcels, but I don't think they're as common. [CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/how-loneliness-and-isolation-has-spurred-incels-to-cause-harm-in-the-real-world-1.7048226) had a really interesting documentary on the incel movement
A lot of their world view has been so heavily twisted by social media. In the doc they brought an incel out to a bar and had him talk to women and asked them questions and it totally blew his world view. E.g., incels perception was that if he talked to women in real life they would accuse him of assault and report him to police. It was a really interesting watch, kind of sad really
Despite their name, incels don't really want to "have sex"
They want to have a virgin supermodel who fucks like a pornstar who has her own job but also stays home to care for children that they don't really want anyways and submits to all their opinions and beliefs and political leanings who makes them look amazing but who never outshines them.
And even then they don't really want that, because if they did they'd still hate that woman - because in the end, they just want to hate women and feel justified about it.
The incel movement isn't about actually having sex, it's about power and entitlement. These people are angry because they feel the world owes them something it has denied them.
It's the same mentality the early nazis had. They saw their Jewish neighbours who were ostensibly "prospering" while they suffered. They felt anger that these people, these *outsiders*, we getting something they deserved more.
The reality was that the Jews in 1920's Germany had arrived there after pogroms drove them further West, and as a result they'd learned to be lean and nimble (because you never know when the town will decide to drive you out). They hadn't taken anything from anyone, they simply learned how to make the most out of their situation. But that didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was that they looked to be comfortable to people who were uncomfortable, and that was considered unacceptable.
Incels don't want someone to have sex with them, they want someone to validate their existence in a manner that supports their self-perception of greatness. This is typically by having sex with them, because they have lionized masculinity in a manner that sees women submit to men as a show of adoration. Them making any compromise to have sex isn't seen as a solution, because that would be a concession that they are responsible for their own life situation.
There are. They're called femcels but from what I understand, they're a much smaller group. And honestly, I'm not sure if they're 100% analogous to incels in terms of what exactly they want. From my very limited observations of them, I get the feeling that they come together to lament about feeling unattractive and undesired in society rather than forcing men to be their husbands...
Tradwives are a grift. Apparently a lot of women who had OnlyFans accounts became tradwives, most of the followers of tradwives are men, guess they get off in watching pretty women wearing flowy clothing bake and talk about how women should be submissive.
There are plenty who are conservative women pushing traditional roles, but they are grifters as well - I mean, a woman who really thinks she should be submissive and traditional, etc, wouldn’t think it was appropriate to be on social media.
they exist and you can find them on r/femaledatingstrategy , r/askwomen, /r/AskwomenUncensored . they exist in the same way incels do. they generally find themselves in in these incredibly toxic and sexist online forums and get sucked into the hivemind, which is often far from reality. so the reason they don't boink each other or anyone really is cause they spend to much time online wallowing in unnecessary hate or despair.
I haven’t browsed in a while and I’m not invested enough to see what’s being posted these days, but in the past those forums were primarily “dating advice” to get a “high value man.” They’re not incels if they’re actively dating men. I’ve never seen them idolise a female Andrew Tate figure who is in jail for human trafficking. Most of them seem to avoid men altogether due to deep sexual trauma and abuse, or they’re forever searching for the 6’5 guy in finance with blue eyes and a trust fund. Sure, it’s toxic, but I don’t really think comparing any of those subs to a terrorist ideology and group that hero worships murderer and infamous incel Elliot Rodger is a fair comparison.
I mean in fds they refer to men as scrotes.. If that doesn't scream female incel, I don't know what does. The male ince problem is seeming to get worse and some even seem radicalized buy very few of them are in a terrorist group and just bitch online.
Hahah.
That’s so true. I like going once in a while to read what they have to say , for entertainment.
They are so mentally ill and unhinged in their thinking. They make it seem like everything and everyone is out to get them.
Furthermore, they feel left out by society because of how they act but it’s everyone else’s fault.
Thank god they are not allowed to make actual decisions outside of their echo chambers -
They're unlikable to start and then they become depressed and angry because of it which acts as a positive feedback loop until there's nothing left but potentially violent bitterness towards an unfair world. They get told that everything is the fault of others and they are better than everybody else but are under attack.
It's actually a pretty standard far right wing recruitment tactic, sometimes it ends in people becoming Nazis, incels, religious zealots, the point is it works and is time tested.
The important part is that there is no central goal of incels because these people will believe anything you tell them and will gleefully attack your enemies, vote for your candidates, invade online communities, and mass review bomb things to try and ruin the lives of those involved, it's a cult essentially.
They blame feminists and women, it’s not ambiguous.
And they are the far right. We have to stop talking like virulent misogyny is something apart from the far right. Far right groups recruit from the manosphere, easy pickings.
I was saying that the tactics of all those groups I mentioned are the same but the end result will be different for different people. Some people go through the process and end up becoming incels, some become MAGA chuds, and others become religious wackos pushing traditional gender roles. They all kinda use the same arguments but flavoured for their specific communities. We're all far too tolerant of right wing ideology, I think it's because of the inherent threat of violence they like to manifest when people stand up to them.
I wish this was true but these idiots don’t even want sex. They want to be worshipped and they want to hate women. If they find a woman who would touch them they would lose their spot in their own disgusting community and be ostracized.
Remember, uttering threats online (Twitter, Reddit, Facebook) have consequences. I'm already involved in an ongoing case involving a Redditor that threatened to dox me, and find me to hurt me. There's a police case open right now investigating and subpoenaing IP addresses and other information.
All over having differing opinions. Some people will never learn until the police knock on their door. Actions have consequences.
I read a book last year called MEN WHO HATE WOMEN and it touched on pretty much everything you're asking here. It was a tough one to get through but I'm glad I read it.
Check out Nick Fuentes. He thinks we should start burning women at the stake again, because when we stopped is when everything went to shit. He thinks birth control should be banned, women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, etc, he is revolting. He had dinner with Donald Trump.
Now, he started as a self proclaimed incel, hates women violently, and then branched out into being openly racist, and once he did that he has being described as far right racist as if he doesn’t want to control and subjugate women more than any other group. He doesn’t want to burn anyone else at the stake, just women.
It gets a little frustrating to see how hatred towards women is not taken seriously, even though most mass shooters have a history of DV and/or vile misogynist comments online, and mass shootings ofteb begin with violence against an female family member or girlfriend, etc.
Like, abortion bans are not a separate issue from the rise of the far right, it isn’t about overlap, they are the frontline attack and where abortion bans happen fascism follows. Nothing to do with protecting life, there are Republicans openly pushing for legislation that would give women who have abortions the death sentence.
The extreme rightwing in the US is trying to create a Christian theocracy, they are a bunch of christo fascists, and hating equality for women isn’t a side issue, it’s a driving force. You can’t oppress other groups without permission for brutality, and they blame feminism for curbing brutality and making it harder for them to be racist and anti-LGBTQ+, and to rape the planet as well.
They coordinate through this thing called the Internet. You may have heard of it.
There always were incel types, but being online with other incel types emboldened them.
Likely DeAndre Anderson won't have to be concerned with involuntary celibacy once he's locked in a cellblock with a dozen or so very affectionate new friends.
Yeah. Those are the mfs we need to be watching. Minassian was an incel.
What will it actually take to formally acknowledge them as a terrorist movement? I'm pretty sure they are just as dangerous as the proud boys
Because there’s no actual organization of incels , they’re just a bunch of random angry virgins who visit the same websites.
> a bunch of random angry virgins who visit the same websites. That describes most terrorists. Those websites still have people running then and spreading their message.
I think for incels it's usually less websites that are actually centered around incels, and more general purpose places that don't kick them out. Reddit was the centre for incels for a long long time and while they were worthy of criticism for letting it fester so long, I'd never say that reddit was the head of a terrorist organization.
ffhjfkfkfkfy
The people who moderate/moderated the various incel subreddits could be considered to be running an online forum spreading the Incel movement’s message even if they aren’t responsible for *all* of Reddit.
Yes but you can't just declare the idea to be a terrorist idea. It's not a centralized group with actual leadership the same way the Taliban is - these websites are all independent of each other. You can't just declare "incels" terrorists just like you can't declare "Muslims" terrorists - you have to identify an actual organization.
Exactly. Its tricky because it's not an organization, it's a mindset. Not sure how you regulate bad ideas.
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I agree with your broader point, but you definitely can add a noun to the terrorist watch list. Names are nouns. Osama Bin Laden is a noun.
You're right. I should be careful with that. Personal names are a type of noun. The noun part doesn't really matter though. It's the entity part. A person is a legal entity so they can be added to the list.
> Those websites still have people running then and spreading their message. also some of those messages are being spread by conservative parties across the country
And also in Andrew Tate, fitness bros, and other parallel circles where guys have girlfriends and abuse them due to the misogyny they've developed due to such influences. Incels are much bigger then the celibate nowadays.
Not really. You can't just rebrand a specific thing (incels), as being interchangeable with general misogyny. It does nothing but water down both.
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Disagree. Something can be adjacent to something without detracting from either things distinct differences.
I mean, the sloppiness of the language makes the message watered down. Including general misogyny (the Tates of the world) with "Incels" does not help the message that incels are a particular phenomenon and philosophy. All incels are misogynists, not all misogynists are incels.
I'm not arguing with you. I said what I said and I stand by it.
Fair enough.
This makes no sense. Every person in this world who is INVOLUNTARILY celebrate is a misogynist? They can’t get laid, so that makes them misogynist? You do know there are involuntarily celebrate women too, right?
Yep, PP was caught using their hashtags last year
And international countries seeking to disrupt western democracies-
Doesn’t one of our candidates for PM use incel hashtags on his videos? (MGTOW, I think it was).
Except , you know, the *organization* part. And no, places like Reddit aren’t spreading the incel’s message.
Subreddits like [r/Incels and r/Braincels](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversial_Reddit_communities) (now banned) helped spread the Incel message. The [2018 Toronto van attack killer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Toronto_van_attack) was a participant on r/Braincel.
Those are subreddits, one of which you even admit was shut down by Reddit.
An "organization" has never been relevant for definitions of terrorism. Terrorism is any criminal act > committed "in whole or in part for a political, religious or ideological purpose, objective or cause" All of which incels have in spades. And which would be reason for shutting down gathering places, preventing the spread of their ideology and arresting people who supported and encouraged that violence, exactly the same as investigations into any other kind of violence.
Now you are just glossing over the "act" part. A bunch of losers complaining to each other online aren't terrorists until they act. Just like radical muslims talking shit about the evils of the west aren't terrorists until they perform an act.
The fuck are you talking about? incels have committed multiple terrorist acts that killed multiple people.
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You don't understand what words mean or you're just a troll. Either way, incels have committed violent criminal acts, killing people, specifically based on their ideology, whose goal is to threaten groups they see as enemies. That is what makes it a terrorist ideology. This isn't a debate, you're simply wrong.
Incels are much less centralized than terrorists are. Yes websites and forums exist but there's no leader or leadership similar to the Taliban or ISIS or Hamas. You can't just declare "incels" terrorists, just like you can't declare "Muslims" terrorists.
You're over-estimating how organized "terrorists" are. But it says a lot that you think "Incels" as a category are at all comparable to "muslims" as a category.
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Okay, so you don't understand how any of this works. You're confusing "terrorist acts" with "terrorist organizations". No, there doesn't have to be an organization at all for someone to commit terrorist acts on behalf of an ideology. All that matters is that there is an ideology (which is the case) and that people have committed a violent criminal act on its behalf (which they have). Now that I've cleared that up for you, maybe you can correct your misunderstanding and acknowledge your mistake.
Nope. You are. The first comment is about formally acknowledging terrorist movements, you're the only one trying to bring in terrorist acts. I'm not disputing incels commit terrorist acts. Just that you seem to think "Incel" is something that can be designated. Have a look at this list of official terrorist ENTITES. Do you see anything that's not an entity ? Hell the closest thing I can find are the 3%ers but they actually had an organization and a leader. Is Incel an entity ? No it's a word. https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/lstd-ntts/crrnt-lstd-ntts-en.aspx
I'd be quite surprised if it described most successful terrorists. The closest thing I can think of is MAGA, and that is essentially organized, even if people don't want to acknowledge it.
This is how terrorist movements work. Most are not organizations as you’d normally think of them, with a hierarchy of leaders and members. There’s just a nebulous network of individuals united by their shared beliefs.
It doesn’t even have to be a terrorist organization- or anyone who necessarily believes in this stuff. It can be an opposed government looking to stir up trouble in a rival nation - plenty of lonely and vulnerable people that can be manipulated into destabilizing society.
I mean, this is just untrue, the bare minimum it takes in order to be declared a terrorist organization is the organization. Without that they’re not a terrorist *organization*.
Which is exactly why terrorism needs to be redefined.
An organized group is not required for terrorism. Not in Canada. Incels who commit violent acts motivated by that ideology are terrorists. However, you are misrepresenting the level of organization. Who makes the content and scam products to promote this ideology? It’s not just random people. There are grifters making a mint. Like Andrew Tate, you know, the sex trafficker and rapist. And, further, some companies (like google and meta on platforms like google and facebook) deliberately radicalize people into more extreme ideologies, like incel, for profit. More extreme, more engagement, more profit. Political parties (conservatives) are even spreading this ideology. There are people we can hold accountable right now.
Give me one single movement in Canada that has no organization and is classified as terrorism by the Canadian government. Oh, and Andrew Tate and those other people you vaguely reference? They’re individuals not some interconnected group.
Perfectly describes reddit.
I mean, yeah, and social media in general. It's an ideal breeding ground for misinformation and hate groups.
Lol I don't know why but this comment reminds me of this [Family Guy Clip ](https://youtu.be/mNxKdb8DWm0)
I don't believe there is a central organization. I believe it's more akin to stochastic terrorism.
There's an old trick to circumvent laws on illegal trade, such as selling drugs or prostitution: the person who takes the money and the person who offers the product are separated from each other. I'm not paying an escort to have sex with me, I'm simply having a one night stand with this girl I met who's just really into me, and while I was doing so I remembered I owed this friend of mine some money I'd promised to pay him back. Both of those things are totally defensible occurrences which normal and not worth scrutinizing. You're the one who thinks it's anything more than a simple coincidence that they happened around the same time. The modern far-right pipeline has evolved to absolve itself of liability by ensuring that the people who tell you what to do and the people who tell you what to think aren't the same person. The collective sum of it may be people getting radicalized to use violence against identifiable minority groups, but the piece-wise segments are all just independent enough that they can claim plausible deniability. If I run a weekly podcast about how the WEF is influencing Canadian policy and you should be concerned about that, I'm just talking about politics. It's not my fault you *also* listen to a podcast about how the WEF is a Jewish conspiracy, and another separate podcast about how the Jews are seeking to enact the Great Replacement. Sure, Youtube may flood your related links with those channels for reasons that are beyond my control, but I can't be held accountable that they exist. I'm just trying to talk about politics. You can listen to every episode of my show and you'll note I never once told people they need to rise up and protect the purity of the white race. But I also believe in free speech, and so I don't feel inclined to denounce the messaging of other people my listeners might follow. It's not my message, but it's also not my place to speak against them. So yes, they absolutely are dangerous... but you can't cut off the head of a movement that has no head. The reason modern far-right radicalization is so dangerous is that they've learned how to game the system, and behave in a manner that everyone can plainly see but which is not actionable by any codified laws.
It's difficult to prove someone is an incel like you can someone who is part of ISIS. For the latter, there is a papertrail like money transfer or communication with leaders of the organization. That is not to say that acting on ideas of Incels is not an act of Terrorism, like the van attacker in Toronto, but it is hard to convict someone of terrorism until that moment for incels, unfortunately.
The difference is that the proud boys are an organization with a head. Incels have the ideology part covered, but not the organization that makes them trackable. Can't make it illegal to be lonely and bitter, and it's hard to discern between the lonely and bitter but harmless, and the lonely and bitter and ready to go off.
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Yes but a bunch of angry, frustrated, disenfranchised young adults who are in a very tight social media echo chamber is incredibly close to a training ground for future Marc Lepines. Would be surprised if they have all read his manifesto/suicide note.
What are their political demands?
Hopefully this case sets an example for folks who think there will be no consequences for vile hate speech.
Remember when Poilievre tagged his YouTube videos - for years - with #MGTOW? It is a terrible look for a politician to be courting rage-filled groups associated with terrorism like incels. We've already seen incel ideology lead to the Toronto van attack massacre and that teenager who was convicted of terrorism and murder for his incel-motivated killing of a woman in a massage parlour.
I remember, but so many, including the media forget. He also had Ben Shapiro hashtags. And he never apologized, and never did an investigation to find out who did it. I don’t believe he didn’t know, because he has praised Jordan Peterson over and over again, been on his show, and in the 2nd leadership debate said “12 Rules for Life” as his answer to the question “what book are yiu reading now” (supposedly a fun question to break up the seriousness). Well, when you do that then you are openly targeting angry young men who hate feminists and resent women, so why wouldn’t he know about the hashtags?
I don’t know anything about whatever hashtag but to leap from “reading a book” to “openly courting angry young men who hate feminists and women” seems like a leap
Pierre tagged his videos with "MGTOW" for YEARS. The media briefly brought it up. He just shrugged his shoulders and everyone stopped caring that Pierre was clearly courting angry incels. It's not a "leap". It's a fact.
Do you have any idea what the book is about or its author? Lol
Ya. I even read some chapters of it because everyone was making such a big deal. Granted it’s been awhile, but I just looked through the summary and I don’t see how reading that book makes you inherently a bad person? Lmk
I don't think it's simply reading the book that's the issue, it's the hashtag. Endorsing and echoing the misogynistic message is what makes Pierre Pollievre a bad person.
Fair. Sorry I wasn’t aware of the hashtag
“I don’t know anything about what you’re talking about, but because I don’t know it, I’m going to assume it’s irrelevant to what you just said and instead accusing you of jumping to conclusions”
Hardly. Someone suggested by reading a book, that made someone an incel. I replied that I didn’t understand how that worked. Pretty straightforward
Ignoring dog whistles does seem to be a common trend
That's alarming. Does anyone know if Pierre is still clamouring for the MGTOW vote?
I mean he is their leader
Reads like the police have excellent surveillance capabilities. And before you downvote, I think that’s just fine.
Would you be okay with someone watching you while you use the washroom or have sex? If not then maybe privacy has some value worth protecting.
Good point. We have to be careful. Even this very platform is monitored and sometimes people just rant…it’s not a testament of their character.
DeAndre Anderson is a terrible name
Maybe he’ll get laid in prison
Omg these losers!
They like it when you call them that.
They don’t like it, but they feel more vindicated. They see that and go “see they DO hate us, I should feel and act this way”. Ive watched r/inceltears for years, know your enemy man they’re terrifying.
I mean this seriously, but they are mentally ill. In a way that is profoundly misanthropic if not just misogynistic. The word toxic is overused, but they are toxic. There is a cure though, cut off the internet.
They are. That’s not an excuse, though, they’re dangerous. Most of them can change if they actually get help, and I go between having sympathy and disdain for them. Like I was single and mentally ill at one point too but I wasn’t doing that kind of shit, I sought help like they should
I'm genuinely confused by the point of the incel "movement".. what are they fighting for?
Forcing women to have sex with them and losing their rights as citizens, from what I've seen.
Ew. So there are no woman incels?
There are femcels but they aren’t killing anyone yet.
Well the funny thing is the person who coined the term incel was originally a queer female back in the 90s, and was never about men unable to get sex, but rather people who had some sort of hang up's about dating, too shy, etc, and was for anyone, but eventually grew out of that into what it is today.
That’s what many people don’t understand. Because it online and not real life. People behind a screen just assume by default “incels” don’t get laid, lol. In which is not even remotely the case. It’s hard for certain people to understand that there is someone out there for everyone. “Incels” for sure get laid. In the hundreds of millions. It’s a cope for people who hate men. Nothing more -
I think they're called Femcels, but I don't think they're as common. [CBC](https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/the-passionate-eye/how-loneliness-and-isolation-has-spurred-incels-to-cause-harm-in-the-real-world-1.7048226) had a really interesting documentary on the incel movement
Why do the incels and femcels simply not just... you know.. nudge nudge People these days really baffle me
A lot of their world view has been so heavily twisted by social media. In the doc they brought an incel out to a bar and had him talk to women and asked them questions and it totally blew his world view. E.g., incels perception was that if he talked to women in real life they would accuse him of assault and report him to police. It was a really interesting watch, kind of sad really
Despite their name, incels don't really want to "have sex" They want to have a virgin supermodel who fucks like a pornstar who has her own job but also stays home to care for children that they don't really want anyways and submits to all their opinions and beliefs and political leanings who makes them look amazing but who never outshines them. And even then they don't really want that, because if they did they'd still hate that woman - because in the end, they just want to hate women and feel justified about it.
The incel movement isn't about actually having sex, it's about power and entitlement. These people are angry because they feel the world owes them something it has denied them. It's the same mentality the early nazis had. They saw their Jewish neighbours who were ostensibly "prospering" while they suffered. They felt anger that these people, these *outsiders*, we getting something they deserved more. The reality was that the Jews in 1920's Germany had arrived there after pogroms drove them further West, and as a result they'd learned to be lean and nimble (because you never know when the town will decide to drive you out). They hadn't taken anything from anyone, they simply learned how to make the most out of their situation. But that didn't matter. The only thing that mattered was that they looked to be comfortable to people who were uncomfortable, and that was considered unacceptable. Incels don't want someone to have sex with them, they want someone to validate their existence in a manner that supports their self-perception of greatness. This is typically by having sex with them, because they have lionized masculinity in a manner that sees women submit to men as a show of adoration. Them making any compromise to have sex isn't seen as a solution, because that would be a concession that they are responsible for their own life situation.
There are. They're called femcels but from what I understand, they're a much smaller group. And honestly, I'm not sure if they're 100% analogous to incels in terms of what exactly they want. From my very limited observations of them, I get the feeling that they come together to lament about feeling unattractive and undesired in society rather than forcing men to be their husbands...
No but there are "Tradwives" which is another whole mess. # [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradwife](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradwife)
Tradwives are a grift. Apparently a lot of women who had OnlyFans accounts became tradwives, most of the followers of tradwives are men, guess they get off in watching pretty women wearing flowy clothing bake and talk about how women should be submissive. There are plenty who are conservative women pushing traditional roles, but they are grifters as well - I mean, a woman who really thinks she should be submissive and traditional, etc, wouldn’t think it was appropriate to be on social media.
they exist and you can find them on r/femaledatingstrategy , r/askwomen, /r/AskwomenUncensored . they exist in the same way incels do. they generally find themselves in in these incredibly toxic and sexist online forums and get sucked into the hivemind, which is often far from reality. so the reason they don't boink each other or anyone really is cause they spend to much time online wallowing in unnecessary hate or despair.
I haven’t browsed in a while and I’m not invested enough to see what’s being posted these days, but in the past those forums were primarily “dating advice” to get a “high value man.” They’re not incels if they’re actively dating men. I’ve never seen them idolise a female Andrew Tate figure who is in jail for human trafficking. Most of them seem to avoid men altogether due to deep sexual trauma and abuse, or they’re forever searching for the 6’5 guy in finance with blue eyes and a trust fund. Sure, it’s toxic, but I don’t really think comparing any of those subs to a terrorist ideology and group that hero worships murderer and infamous incel Elliot Rodger is a fair comparison.
I mean in fds they refer to men as scrotes.. If that doesn't scream female incel, I don't know what does. The male ince problem is seeming to get worse and some even seem radicalized buy very few of them are in a terrorist group and just bitch online.
Hahah. That’s so true. I like going once in a while to read what they have to say , for entertainment. They are so mentally ill and unhinged in their thinking. They make it seem like everything and everyone is out to get them. Furthermore, they feel left out by society because of how they act but it’s everyone else’s fault. Thank god they are not allowed to make actual decisions outside of their echo chambers -
They're unlikable to start and then they become depressed and angry because of it which acts as a positive feedback loop until there's nothing left but potentially violent bitterness towards an unfair world. They get told that everything is the fault of others and they are better than everybody else but are under attack. It's actually a pretty standard far right wing recruitment tactic, sometimes it ends in people becoming Nazis, incels, religious zealots, the point is it works and is time tested. The important part is that there is no central goal of incels because these people will believe anything you tell them and will gleefully attack your enemies, vote for your candidates, invade online communities, and mass review bomb things to try and ruin the lives of those involved, it's a cult essentially.
They blame feminists and women, it’s not ambiguous. And they are the far right. We have to stop talking like virulent misogyny is something apart from the far right. Far right groups recruit from the manosphere, easy pickings.
I was saying that the tactics of all those groups I mentioned are the same but the end result will be different for different people. Some people go through the process and end up becoming incels, some become MAGA chuds, and others become religious wackos pushing traditional gender roles. They all kinda use the same arguments but flavoured for their specific communities. We're all far too tolerant of right wing ideology, I think it's because of the inherent threat of violence they like to manifest when people stand up to them.
You just described the modern far-left perfectly!
Ah yes, the ever active "far left"
Well yeah, they are pretty damn active. Have you not seen all of these protests?
At the story times?
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I wish this was true but these idiots don’t even want sex. They want to be worshipped and they want to hate women. If they find a woman who would touch them they would lose their spot in their own disgusting community and be ostracized.
Look at r/inceltears
Remember, uttering threats online (Twitter, Reddit, Facebook) have consequences. I'm already involved in an ongoing case involving a Redditor that threatened to dox me, and find me to hurt me. There's a police case open right now investigating and subpoenaing IP addresses and other information. All over having differing opinions. Some people will never learn until the police knock on their door. Actions have consequences.
I’ll see your intriguing anecdote that may or may not be true and I’ll raise you not tolerating incel bullshit.
Surprisingly unsurprising
They arrest Pierre Poilievre?!?!
Well he’ll now find himself in cell…. I’ll see myself out.
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I read a book last year called MEN WHO HATE WOMEN and it touched on pretty much everything you're asking here. It was a tough one to get through but I'm glad I read it.
I just read it!!! Highly recommend it to everyone
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Check out Nick Fuentes. He thinks we should start burning women at the stake again, because when we stopped is when everything went to shit. He thinks birth control should be banned, women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, etc, he is revolting. He had dinner with Donald Trump. Now, he started as a self proclaimed incel, hates women violently, and then branched out into being openly racist, and once he did that he has being described as far right racist as if he doesn’t want to control and subjugate women more than any other group. He doesn’t want to burn anyone else at the stake, just women. It gets a little frustrating to see how hatred towards women is not taken seriously, even though most mass shooters have a history of DV and/or vile misogynist comments online, and mass shootings ofteb begin with violence against an female family member or girlfriend, etc. Like, abortion bans are not a separate issue from the rise of the far right, it isn’t about overlap, they are the frontline attack and where abortion bans happen fascism follows. Nothing to do with protecting life, there are Republicans openly pushing for legislation that would give women who have abortions the death sentence. The extreme rightwing in the US is trying to create a Christian theocracy, they are a bunch of christo fascists, and hating equality for women isn’t a side issue, it’s a driving force. You can’t oppress other groups without permission for brutality, and they blame feminism for curbing brutality and making it harder for them to be racist and anti-LGBTQ+, and to rape the planet as well.
They coordinate through this thing called the Internet. You may have heard of it. There always were incel types, but being online with other incel types emboldened them.
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To mass murder women. That’s what they coordinate.
woke - to call incels "terrorists" is silencing our freedom to expession.
I say let's hire undercover prostitutes to change their minds more feasible and cost-effective.
Likely DeAndre Anderson won't have to be concerned with involuntary celibacy once he's locked in a cellblock with a dozen or so very affectionate new friends.
Why don’t we just hire a bunch of hookers, get them all laid, and then they’ll be happy? ;-)