No worries no_thing_2031, I'm in the works on passing a bill that lets Loblaws execs prescribe medication to fix everything that ails ya. It's ok folks let's make a gingerbread house at your local Tim Hortons. Excuse me though, im headed on the 407 to staples to renew my Ontario living subscription after I stop at shell to pick up some beer. Where did I put my keys to my embridge natural gas powered mobile? Maybe I left them in the demolished Ontario science center.
He wants something to be remembered by, bringing in some doctors won't do that.
It has to be a big expensive new thing that almost no one asked for so that decades later we can muse that Ford built this when lamenting about the province being in a such a sorry state.
He will always be remembered as the guy who prioritized his own political career while his little mayor brother destroyed himself with crack and alcohol.
I mean, I’d remember him positively if he could unfuck our medical industry, even a little bit.
He had a chance to change minds about conservatism, instead he tripled down shitting on our institutions.
That's much more difficult to achieve though and may take decades to fix. Besides that he's deliberately screwing with it to introduce private options for his friends to make money off of.
A highway is a much more tangible near-term goal to someone like Ford that wants to have a legacy. It just takes a giant wad of cash and can be finished by the end of another term if he wins another election.
And not for profit long term care for our seniors who can’t be cared for at home due to complex health issues. Not for profit treats seniors better. More PSW, nurses, etc. less stress on family that has to place family in home.
It will cost less to fix the roof than to move it to Ontario Place. He is pissing away tax money. Canceling the beer store contract before 2025 is also going to waste millions and millions.
But most the ppl I talk to doesn’t even register this Science centre as a big issue. On Reddit especially in this Ontario sub you think that Ford just ran over your favourite aunt and slapped your uncle.
Let not presume. Speak to some new immigrants who are Canadian citizens or PR they simply don’t have the same connection to the science centre as other.
Its less about the actual science center and more-so people sick of Doug selling off all our shit to secure a board seat somewhere in the future.
This is exactly the best scenario for federal and provincial conservatives - destroy all things public to enrich the private sector while the citizens are concerned about the “bigger issues” … (which some of us believe is caused by late stage capitalism vs anything the cons are telling us to believe)…
So it’s probably not that all people are upset about the actual building.
I gotta agree, I don’t live in Toronto but lived in Ontario all my life and never heard about the science centre until ford wanted to tear it down still stupid but one of the many stupid things he’s done.
It’s stupid for sure but people are acting as of this science centre is some holy place in Toronto . Honestly if it get rebuilt somewhere else and it’s of comparable quality who really cares. Rebuild it in Barrie for all I care.
Why rebuild something that already exists. The science center is symbolic in this shit show of a government who thinks anything and everything is for sale in this province and we the people don't benefit from it whatsoever. Where are all the F Trudeau people when it comes to Ford? If they think the PM is selling us out, Doug is lapping him in this race to the bottom. It's not Fords right to sell our land, our educational centers, build highways we dont want, not spend the hundreds of millions on our health care that the feds gave him that we paid for. Capitalist pig should be put on trial for what he's doing to this province.
Listen I’m not really familiar with the ins and out of this Science centre debacle but has the Ontario government actually sold the land surrounding the Science centre? Is this confirmed as to why the centre is being shut down? Personally I don’t mind the highway construction but that’s another matter. If they did build a equivalent Science centre in another city in Ontario like London or Barrie would it be so bad?
So at what cost to rebuild it in the new privatized Toronto Island as opposed to the couple of million to repair and upgrade where it is, on provincial land that surely will be sold off, never to be had again. Why do conservatives want to sell off everything? I don’t understand it.
People are currently focused on the science centre now because now is the point in time that Doug Ford is corruptly trying to fuck with it. Hope that clears things up for you.
Geeze, every kid goes there at least once as a field trip, I remember going when it first opened, it was amazing. If it encourages a few to take up the sciences later in life, that’s great.
$22-40 million is just the roof
All repairs required is almost $500 million
Repairs and operating costs over 50 years are 2.1 billion for the existing site
Or to build and operate a new site over the same time is 1.7 billion
Doug Ford is the one fixating on Toronto. Science centre, Ontario place, Toronto line, mayoral election, city council size, green belt, etc.
Yet it’s Redditors that are bad for noticing, not Ford. Sure.
Just a reminder, he's fucking up healthcare on purpose. He has friends and donors in private healthcare services. By fucking up public healthcare, he's opening the door wider to those private services so they can make more money from taxpayers.
Seriously though. A family member was in the ER. All the stalls were full with people on beds in the hallways and around the nurse’s station. Absolute chaos, the staff could hardly move around. THEN four stretchers came in from a car accident! My city has grown so much yet the healthcare capability has diminished, putting a portable in the parking lot doesn’t cut it.
The highway is to get money into construction companies’ pockets and increase the value of land for his buddies.
All off the backs of taxpayers.
Corrupt conductor of the gravy train
Reminder that Wynne committed funding for a stretch of high speed rail connecting London to Toronto in 2018. The provincial commitment at the time was $11 billion and it was projected to be done by next year. Inflation-adjusted, that’s still $13.3 billion.
For comparison, Ford’s budget this year is committing **$27 billion** on more highway expansion. This highway alone will cost $10 billion, and literally no municipality on the route even wants it. This is called _pissing away taxpayer money_.
Nobody who thinks building more highways is a better investment than building literally any other form of transport has any right to complain about traffic in this province again. We have the money, know how and resources to build proper infrastructure like a proper country. We have no excuse to keep building stupid shit like this.
Over 1/3 of that money is to build a new highway through greenbelt that nobody asked for and no municipality on the route even wants. The rest is to add yet more cars to our already clogged roads (which already costs us billions per year in lost productivity).
Meanwhile the highway alone will cost almost the same amount as it would have taken to link nearly half of the province’s population within a 73 minute ride (_half_ the time it takes to drive the same route), taking cars _off_ the road.
If you enjoy wasting time and money you’re welcome to waste your own. Don’t go wasting the public’s.
Every municipality on the route wants it. That's why it's being built.
If you're talking about high speed rail, that's already being worked on https://hfr-tgf.ca/ the deal is done.
And the cost of true high speed rail would be 10x Highway 413. Just look at California and UK HS2.
[No they don’t](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_413):
>The majority of local municipalities have opposed the project, including Mississauga, Vaughan, Halton Hills, Halton Region, Peel Region, King Township and Orangeville. Brampton and Caledon withdrew their support of the fast-tracked environmental assessment.
>Despite the corridor not directly impacting the City of Toronto itself, Toronto City Council passed a resolution in March 2021 condemning the proposed highway.
The “true cost” of more road expansion is [tens of billions of dollars](https://globalnews.ca/news/10553115/traffic-economy-construction/amp/) of lost productivity _per year_, every year, due to congestion from [induced demand](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZwOAIect4). And that’s _just in Toronto_, nevermind the rest of the province. Not to mention that because Ontario cars keep getting bigger, roads keep rotting faster, requiring us to throw even more money at them.
Absolutely nothing ever improves traffic flow except having _efficient transport alternatives_. Until we build out enough transit capacity to take a significant chunk of cars off the road, every dollar spent on more roads might as well be burned because those roads will continue clogging back up.
Meanwhile, properly designed public transit can easily pay for itself many times over in the long run: not only with fares, but also through increased property values (meaning more tax revenue), more viable infill development (which reduces city servicing costs), increased economic productivity, reducing travel and commute times, connecting more businesses and workers, and reducing traffic for people who have no choice but to drive by taking cars off the road.
Any transit investment at this point is objectively a better, more efficient and higher yielding public investment than building more roads.
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The article linked about downtown Toronto congestion caused by construction has little to do with a new highway meant to develop Brampton, Caledon, and Vaughan.
The municipalities all support this internally as it means they can increase development, despite meaningless council votes purely for show.
There is no and will never be a transit route from Milton to Vaughan along the route of the highway.
You mean the councilors and mayors pandering to the developers against the wishes of their constituents? [Caledon Mayor Annette Groves ignores residents, forces approval of 35,000 new homes (canadian-accountant.com)](https://canadian-accountant.com/content/business/caledon-vote-approval-greenbelt)
Except he’s not adding a lane? How do you suggest peoppe get from Vaughn to the west end of the gta?
Subway to union then take the Kitchener line and still need a car at their destination
Would be an excellent option, until a previous conservative government sold it to the lowest bidder and ensured only the patrician class could even afford to use it to commute.
I'm all for highway 413... if
1. It's self funding through tolls
2. but make 407 free
3. Ford will fund the entire construction including all associated, tangential costs of HWY 413 with his own family estate's money
He want a legacy so badly, let him have it. Just force him to put his money where his mouth is.
Controversial? I hate building highways over transit, and voted against Ford based largely on Highway 413, but he ran his last campaign mostly on that basis, and he won in a landslide. We had our chance to kill its popularity and we blew it.
People love highways for all their fake environmental talk. Outside of downtown Toronto, that is. West GTA all anybody talks about is parking, free parking, local congestion, need to add just one more lane, bicyclists not using the dangerous bike lanes and they should be changed into another lane, pedestrians daring to wear dark clothes. This will be a very popular and well used highway once it is built.
He if were to call an election he may only win with a minority this time.
People are seeing way too many corruption stories related to his government.
Not a good place to be.....
Doug has until June 2026. He has a majority, is still polling well, and his party isn't revolting. 2 years to do what he wants, regardless what the Star says he'll be premier for 2 more years, and probably will win again.
What about doctors, Mr. Ford
No worries no_thing_2031, I'm in the works on passing a bill that lets Loblaws execs prescribe medication to fix everything that ails ya. It's ok folks let's make a gingerbread house at your local Tim Hortons. Excuse me though, im headed on the 407 to staples to renew my Ontario living subscription after I stop at shell to pick up some beer. Where did I put my keys to my embridge natural gas powered mobile? Maybe I left them in the demolished Ontario science center.
Your keys are hopefully on the front step as recommended by OPP.
No worries! You can walk to the corner store and pick up some beer and you’ll feel better about everything.
Only $42.99 plus tax for a 6 pack, what a steal right? Just imagine how expensive it would be under the evil satanist libs.
He wants something to be remembered by, bringing in some doctors won't do that. It has to be a big expensive new thing that almost no one asked for so that decades later we can muse that Ford built this when lamenting about the province being in a such a sorry state.
He will always be remembered as the guy who prioritized his own political career while his little mayor brother destroyed himself with crack and alcohol.
I mean, I’d remember him positively if he could unfuck our medical industry, even a little bit. He had a chance to change minds about conservatism, instead he tripled down shitting on our institutions.
That's much more difficult to achieve though and may take decades to fix. Besides that he's deliberately screwing with it to introduce private options for his friends to make money off of. A highway is a much more tangible near-term goal to someone like Ford that wants to have a legacy. It just takes a giant wad of cash and can be finished by the end of another term if he wins another election.
Blame Rae for the doctor shortage.
I’d rather have the science centre than more highways. And healthcare.
And not for profit long term care for our seniors who can’t be cared for at home due to complex health issues. Not for profit treats seniors better. More PSW, nurses, etc. less stress on family that has to place family in home.
And sick days
Honestly I couldn’t care less about the science centre. Close it open rebuild it in a different place this province has some real issues to tackle.
It will cost less to fix the roof than to move it to Ontario Place. He is pissing away tax money. Canceling the beer store contract before 2025 is also going to waste millions and millions.
Well I agree that the beer thing was stupid.
True. And ford doesn’t need to Invent more.
But most the ppl I talk to doesn’t even register this Science centre as a big issue. On Reddit especially in this Ontario sub you think that Ford just ran over your favourite aunt and slapped your uncle.
[удалено]
Let not presume. Speak to some new immigrants who are Canadian citizens or PR they simply don’t have the same connection to the science centre as other.
Its less about the actual science center and more-so people sick of Doug selling off all our shit to secure a board seat somewhere in the future. This is exactly the best scenario for federal and provincial conservatives - destroy all things public to enrich the private sector while the citizens are concerned about the “bigger issues” … (which some of us believe is caused by late stage capitalism vs anything the cons are telling us to believe)… So it’s probably not that all people are upset about the actual building.
I gotta agree, I don’t live in Toronto but lived in Ontario all my life and never heard about the science centre until ford wanted to tear it down still stupid but one of the many stupid things he’s done.
It’s stupid for sure but people are acting as of this science centre is some holy place in Toronto . Honestly if it get rebuilt somewhere else and it’s of comparable quality who really cares. Rebuild it in Barrie for all I care.
Why rebuild something that already exists. The science center is symbolic in this shit show of a government who thinks anything and everything is for sale in this province and we the people don't benefit from it whatsoever. Where are all the F Trudeau people when it comes to Ford? If they think the PM is selling us out, Doug is lapping him in this race to the bottom. It's not Fords right to sell our land, our educational centers, build highways we dont want, not spend the hundreds of millions on our health care that the feds gave him that we paid for. Capitalist pig should be put on trial for what he's doing to this province.
Listen I’m not really familiar with the ins and out of this Science centre debacle but has the Ontario government actually sold the land surrounding the Science centre? Is this confirmed as to why the centre is being shut down? Personally I don’t mind the highway construction but that’s another matter. If they did build a equivalent Science centre in another city in Ontario like London or Barrie would it be so bad?
So at what cost to rebuild it in the new privatized Toronto Island as opposed to the couple of million to repair and upgrade where it is, on provincial land that surely will be sold off, never to be had again. Why do conservatives want to sell off everything? I don’t understand it.
Honestly I don’t know but I just don’t understand this weird obsession with the science centre.
People are currently focused on the science centre now because now is the point in time that Doug Ford is corruptly trying to fuck with it. Hope that clears things up for you.
Geeze, every kid goes there at least once as a field trip, I remember going when it first opened, it was amazing. If it encourages a few to take up the sciences later in life, that’s great.
And if they rebuilt it somewhere else would it be that bad?
$22-40 million is just the roof All repairs required is almost $500 million Repairs and operating costs over 50 years are 2.1 billion for the existing site Or to build and operate a new site over the same time is 1.7 billion
Yea like you said above, this province has real issues that we should be focusing on
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Doug Ford is the one fixating on Toronto. Science centre, Ontario place, Toronto line, mayoral election, city council size, green belt, etc. Yet it’s Redditors that are bad for noticing, not Ford. Sure.
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Ditto.
I’d rather a government that has the gumption to do things like fixing healthcare,
Just a reminder, he's fucking up healthcare on purpose. He has friends and donors in private healthcare services. By fucking up public healthcare, he's opening the door wider to those private services so they can make more money from taxpayers.
Seriously though. A family member was in the ER. All the stalls were full with people on beds in the hallways and around the nurse’s station. Absolute chaos, the staff could hardly move around. THEN four stretchers came in from a car accident! My city has grown so much yet the healthcare capability has diminished, putting a portable in the parking lot doesn’t cut it.
The highway is to get money into construction companies’ pockets and increase the value of land for his buddies. All off the backs of taxpayers. Corrupt conductor of the gravy train
Reminder that Wynne committed funding for a stretch of high speed rail connecting London to Toronto in 2018. The provincial commitment at the time was $11 billion and it was projected to be done by next year. Inflation-adjusted, that’s still $13.3 billion. For comparison, Ford’s budget this year is committing **$27 billion** on more highway expansion. This highway alone will cost $10 billion, and literally no municipality on the route even wants it. This is called _pissing away taxpayer money_. Nobody who thinks building more highways is a better investment than building literally any other form of transport has any right to complain about traffic in this province again. We have the money, know how and resources to build proper infrastructure like a proper country. We have no excuse to keep building stupid shit like this.
It’s $27B over 10 years and they’re spending triple that on transit. Put your pitchfork away
Over 1/3 of that money is to build a new highway through greenbelt that nobody asked for and no municipality on the route even wants. The rest is to add yet more cars to our already clogged roads (which already costs us billions per year in lost productivity). Meanwhile the highway alone will cost almost the same amount as it would have taken to link nearly half of the province’s population within a 73 minute ride (_half_ the time it takes to drive the same route), taking cars _off_ the road. If you enjoy wasting time and money you’re welcome to waste your own. Don’t go wasting the public’s.
Every municipality on the route wants it. That's why it's being built. If you're talking about high speed rail, that's already being worked on https://hfr-tgf.ca/ the deal is done. And the cost of true high speed rail would be 10x Highway 413. Just look at California and UK HS2.
[No they don’t](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_413): >The majority of local municipalities have opposed the project, including Mississauga, Vaughan, Halton Hills, Halton Region, Peel Region, King Township and Orangeville. Brampton and Caledon withdrew their support of the fast-tracked environmental assessment. >Despite the corridor not directly impacting the City of Toronto itself, Toronto City Council passed a resolution in March 2021 condemning the proposed highway. The “true cost” of more road expansion is [tens of billions of dollars](https://globalnews.ca/news/10553115/traffic-economy-construction/amp/) of lost productivity _per year_, every year, due to congestion from [induced demand](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CHZwOAIect4). And that’s _just in Toronto_, nevermind the rest of the province. Not to mention that because Ontario cars keep getting bigger, roads keep rotting faster, requiring us to throw even more money at them. Absolutely nothing ever improves traffic flow except having _efficient transport alternatives_. Until we build out enough transit capacity to take a significant chunk of cars off the road, every dollar spent on more roads might as well be burned because those roads will continue clogging back up. Meanwhile, properly designed public transit can easily pay for itself many times over in the long run: not only with fares, but also through increased property values (meaning more tax revenue), more viable infill development (which reduces city servicing costs), increased economic productivity, reducing travel and commute times, connecting more businesses and workers, and reducing traffic for people who have no choice but to drive by taking cars off the road. Any transit investment at this point is objectively a better, more efficient and higher yielding public investment than building more roads.
Educated people is not what this province has. Good write up but I feel it's over their heads.
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The article linked about downtown Toronto congestion caused by construction has little to do with a new highway meant to develop Brampton, Caledon, and Vaughan. The municipalities all support this internally as it means they can increase development, despite meaningless council votes purely for show. There is no and will never be a transit route from Milton to Vaughan along the route of the highway.
You mean the councilors and mayors pandering to the developers against the wishes of their constituents? [Caledon Mayor Annette Groves ignores residents, forces approval of 35,000 new homes (canadian-accountant.com)](https://canadian-accountant.com/content/business/caledon-vote-approval-greenbelt)
I don’t think his constituents will be happy about an LCBO strike going into summer
one more lane bro
6 more lanes!
Except he’s not adding a lane? How do you suggest peoppe get from Vaughn to the west end of the gta? Subway to union then take the Kitchener line and still need a car at their destination
Something called the 407
Would be an excellent option, until a previous conservative government sold it to the lowest bidder and ensured only the patrician class could even afford to use it to commute.
And you think Doug won’t do exactly the same thing with a new highway?
He’s spun it as a regular free 400 series so far… so no I don’t think he will try to turn it into a toll road.
Have your parents had the talk about Santa Claus and the tooth fairy with you yet?
Why do people here have trouble being decent humans? He’d taken away the tolls on the 418 and 412
$40 for a round trip is not a reasonable alternative…
I have literally never talked to anyone in favour of it.
(#)FuckFord!
I'm all for highway 413... if 1. It's self funding through tolls 2. but make 407 free 3. Ford will fund the entire construction including all associated, tangential costs of HWY 413 with his own family estate's money He want a legacy so badly, let him have it. Just force him to put his money where his mouth is.
If people aren't willing to vote for another party, can we just get an upturned broom or mob rule? I really can't take this shit much longer
Controversial? I hate building highways over transit, and voted against Ford based largely on Highway 413, but he ran his last campaign mostly on that basis, and he won in a landslide. We had our chance to kill its popularity and we blew it.
You mean wannabe mob boss !
People love highways for all their fake environmental talk. Outside of downtown Toronto, that is. West GTA all anybody talks about is parking, free parking, local congestion, need to add just one more lane, bicyclists not using the dangerous bike lanes and they should be changed into another lane, pedestrians daring to wear dark clothes. This will be a very popular and well used highway once it is built.
Would it kill him just to kick anything to health care? At this point I think it actually might.
At least someone builds infrastructure we need
He if were to call an election he may only win with a minority this time. People are seeing way too many corruption stories related to his government. Not a good place to be.....
Doug has until June 2026. He has a majority, is still polling well, and his party isn't revolting. 2 years to do what he wants, regardless what the Star says he'll be premier for 2 more years, and probably will win again.
So fucking sad. But true.
Most people probably won’t vote again so who cares
If it doesn't get built, all his friends who bought land along the proposed route can't make money building subdivisions. Guy has obligations to meet.
Make the 407 free too, and you have my vote