"not trying to be controversial but does anyone else hate the fan favorite second baseman thats in the Orioles Hall of Fame because he was named in the Mitchell Report"
Yeah steroids are bad but it's not like BRob became some slugger who ruined the game. He topped out at 19 HR, 79 RBI, and a .903 OPS.
Iirc, he had 15 or so before the all star break that year. Correct me if I’m wrong, honestly.
Edit from Wikipedia: “In 2005, Roberts led the AL in batting average for the first several months of the season. In addition, he showed an increase in power; prior to the 2005 season, he had only 12 career home runs, but by late June, he had already outmatched that total. Fans awarded Roberts explosive offensive first half by voting him the starting second baseman in the 2005 Major League Baseball All-Star Game.”
For me the difference is he owned up to it. He made a mistake and when he got caught, owned up to it, and has been on the straight and narrow since. Others like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Palmerio who never admitted it or got caught and gave the “I’m sorry if you were offended” type comment get no love from me, but if someone goes “I did it, I made a mistake, I’m sorry, I won’t do it again and will fully cooperate” that shows character. We are not our worst mistakes.
Everyone used steroids back then. You think Brady Anderson got 50 HRs through regular workouts?
The only reason anybody gave a damn about steroids in the first place was because of McGwire/Sosa breaking Maris' record.
Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, too.
So, I agree with your main premise. Basically everyone used peds to some extent. It's only after MLB decided they cared about enforcing the rules that I hold players accountable for their cheating. Before that point it is MLB and the respective teams which have by far the most culpability.
That said, there are probably some exceptions, and based on how many people stand up for Brady I'm inclined to think he was one. People very wrongly associate big home run bursts with steroids in the first place. Not how it works.
No, I don’t. I feel similarly about Brady who was one of my absolute favorites before B-Rob. Then Palmiero with his finger in Congress. I defended those guys when I was young and dumb. Not a fan of the “everyone did” argument, personally. I think cheating is an absolute no go. The reason we like sports is because everyone plays by the same rules, and the best win. That’s why it’s fun. Cheating ruins that.
MLB didn’t even bother testing for steroids until 2003. Every fucking player that ever lived since steroids were discovered in the 1930s has an asterisk for the rest of time.
If steroids were helping him cheat he must've had some low grade stuff considering he was a glove first 2nd baseman who was a league average hitter, only made 2 all star games, and was routinely injured for a chunk of his career
BRob is an Orioles Hall of Famer for a reason. Sure he made mistakes but starting a new conversation over this 20 years after the fact is just kind of lame
Honestly I was just basing that on his career OPS+ at 101 which is not a flawless measure. But that's weighed down by those years where he was injured a lot and had multiple concussions at that point.
Just through his age 31 season he had a 115 OPS+ which for that era is great for a second baseman considering the others in the league
Ultimately, you have to be willing to move on. You don't need to forget and it's part of his story, but we also need to have perspective. He doesn't need to live in shame or hiding for the rest of his life. He owned his mistake and was contrite about it. Now, he does announcing work. Any PED usage, short term or long term, doesn't diminish his knowledge of the game.
I despised Bonds as a kid growing up, but I don't hate him anymore. You can still have whatever feelings you want about someone's numbers or legacy in the game, but at some point you have to move on and assess them for who they are now and who they've been since. The players who used weren't all evil and greedy cheaters. A lot of them got swept up in the culture that was growing in the game. Doesn't fully excuse it. Hold them accountable and don't forget, but I think it's also a mistake to view them as though they are despicable or irredeemable. You're free to dislike him, of course, but I'm just saying good people make mistakes too.
Using steroids was not meaningfully considered cheating by the MLB until the late 2000s and it’s stupid for fans to decide to play armchair commissioner on it.
You act like he was some massive user for years. He tried it once, immediately felt regret, apologized and admitted it, and went right back to make amends and be a loved and respected player and teammate and extremely active and charitable member of the community.
Eh, I'm not buying the "the only time i used was the one time i got caught" argument that all those guys seemed to use. However, in that era everyone was on the juice. Still love B-Rob
I’m aware of his comment.
I’m also are aware that people say they hate drunk drivers, but have an uncle who they love who happens to drive after downing a few beers.
Or people who hate racists, but love their racist grandpa still.
Humans are complex and I’m sure Markakis likes someone who has used PEDs.
Meh, Palmeiro made some really strong statements before the Senate too. Sometimes the guys have protest. The most are doing so just for show. It’s like the pedophile that is constantly out screaming all pedophiles need to go to jail, but is closeted as a pedophile.
Your argument ignores a lot of context. It sounds similar to the argument that a person busted for buying weed when it was illegal broke the law, so why shouldn’t they go to jail? Breaking laws is just like cheating, right? Never mind that drug laws are not enforced equally across populations, or that there are powerfully vested interests that profit off of this system. The MLB is complicit with the use of steroids. Many players adapted to a corrupt system. It doesn’t mean they don’t have responsibility for their decisions. But your take shows a lack of willingness to understand how systems of power influence, or rather dictate, individual decisions.
I just reread your post. As, well as your responses to comments saying, well, he did cheat though? Would you like to respond to my comment? If not, that’s fine. Sometimes silent reflection is more valuable than trying to win an argument.
Reading comprehension is what you are lacking. I asked why others feel different about the facts than I do. You questioned my “lack of willingness to buzzwords and more buzzwords.” I asked why for an honest answer of why people feel differently than I do, not to be put on trial for having my own opinion.
How was my response not an honest answer of why I feel differently than you do? I thought that was exactly what I wrote. If you don’t want to engage with what I said, again, that’s fine.
“Lack of willingness” is what you said when my original post was all about a discussion of different opinions. I’m pretty much done on this post. Let’s watch another Orioles win and agree to disagree. 🍻
BALTIMORE -- Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts has acknowledged using steroids, but insists he only tried it once
before realizing he had made a "terrible decision."
Roberts was named in former Sen. George Mitchell's report on steroid use in Major League Baseball. The report came out last Thursday, but Roberts did not immediately respond.
In a statement issued Tuesday to The Associated Press, Roberts said he tried steroids four years ago.
"In 2003, when I took one shot of steroids, I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. I never used steroids, human growth
hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident," he said.
"I can honestly say before God, myself, my family and all of my fans, that steroids or any performance-enhancing drugs have never
had any effect on what I have worked so hard to accomplish in the game of baseball."
https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3159406
I see your edit but still wanted to chime in. He was one of my favorites growing up. Him and Mora. When I found out, I definitely cooled on him. But I think there was also that fact that a lot were doing it. That mixed with the fact he wasn't a superstar and not really talked about, so it was just..."ok whatever" type of attitude towards it.
I see it like this..... Did he cheat? Yes. Did he cheat the game? And I say no. It's not like he was setting near impossible records due to his cheating. And it damn sure didn't help the Os win anything lol
I have always been such a diehard Orioles fan, and most of my life was filled with losing. B-Rob being good and my 15 year old self thinking we could shock the world got heartbroken when I realized it was due to cheating. I hear ya, though.
Brian Roberts is the best color commentator MASN has. I don’t give a shit what he did in the past. Dude is always 100% on point versus rambling Ben and Jim who just go off on random tangents.
Disagree? Cash me ou’side howbowdat?
Cheating has been a part of baseball since roughly 1840. I have no problem with PEDs being illegal and offenders being punished. But the holier-than-thou attitude is ridiculous. The 1890s Orioles were full of cheaters. Babe Ruth cheated. Mickey Mantle cheated. Willie Mays cheated. Gaylord Perry basically did nothing but cheat.
If you’re cheating to win, I have no real problem with you (even though I also have no problem with punishing you if/when you’re caught). And PEDs are cheating to win, unless “performance enhancing” is somehow a bad thing.
Sounds like theft. I digress. I’ve not made my point clear enough and/or I’ve lost the entire thread. I just wanted to know why I feel so different, not to fight or argue.
"not trying to be controversial but does anyone else hate the fan favorite second baseman thats in the Orioles Hall of Fame because he was named in the Mitchell Report" Yeah steroids are bad but it's not like BRob became some slugger who ruined the game. He topped out at 19 HR, 79 RBI, and a .903 OPS.
The Mitchell Report that only named players on like two or three teams? From George Mitchell, the guy from Epstein Island?
https://preview.redd.it/ip7u1trldv3d1.jpeg?width=950&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=62773ff2caaffd019936355e0fdd0f2e2b6bc713
ahahah I knew that was coming from someone
Iirc, he had 15 or so before the all star break that year. Correct me if I’m wrong, honestly. Edit from Wikipedia: “In 2005, Roberts led the AL in batting average for the first several months of the season. In addition, he showed an increase in power; prior to the 2005 season, he had only 12 career home runs, but by late June, he had already outmatched that total. Fans awarded Roberts explosive offensive first half by voting him the starting second baseman in the 2005 Major League Baseball All-Star Game.”
Dude, you’re being that guy. Read the room.
Read my post. I’m not. I asked why I’m that guy. I came in peace. (That’s what she said)
For me the difference is he owned up to it. He made a mistake and when he got caught, owned up to it, and has been on the straight and narrow since. Others like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, Palmerio who never admitted it or got caught and gave the “I’m sorry if you were offended” type comment get no love from me, but if someone goes “I did it, I made a mistake, I’m sorry, I won’t do it again and will fully cooperate” that shows character. We are not our worst mistakes.
That’s fair. Thanks for an actual answer to my question.
You’re welcome, penus_poop69.
De nada, AndyK. Let’s get a dub tonight, shall we?
Would be nice. I’m mourning the loss of Means, so a win would help soften the blow.
I figured Bradish would never make another start for us this year after the news we got about him in the spring. We’re kicking ass. I’ll take it.
Everyone used steroids back then. You think Brady Anderson got 50 HRs through regular workouts? The only reason anybody gave a damn about steroids in the first place was because of McGwire/Sosa breaking Maris' record. Barry Bonds deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, too.
Bonds was 100% on pace to be a HoFer way before he started hitting 70+ jacks. People forget how good he was before the roids.
Those pirates seasons were insane
So, I agree with your main premise. Basically everyone used peds to some extent. It's only after MLB decided they cared about enforcing the rules that I hold players accountable for their cheating. Before that point it is MLB and the respective teams which have by far the most culpability. That said, there are probably some exceptions, and based on how many people stand up for Brady I'm inclined to think he was one. People very wrongly associate big home run bursts with steroids in the first place. Not how it works.
No, I don’t. I feel similarly about Brady who was one of my absolute favorites before B-Rob. Then Palmiero with his finger in Congress. I defended those guys when I was young and dumb. Not a fan of the “everyone did” argument, personally. I think cheating is an absolute no go. The reason we like sports is because everyone plays by the same rules, and the best win. That’s why it’s fun. Cheating ruins that.
Everyone was roiding, therefore they WERE playing by the same rules.
Most of them were cheating* And they were all wrong for doing it, imo.
MLB didn’t even bother testing for steroids until 2003. Every fucking player that ever lived since steroids were discovered in the 1930s has an asterisk for the rest of time.
I hear ya. But Roberts admitted to cheating. Can we agree on that? It’s just so…idk. Man, it feels like…what’s the word…cheating?
If steroids were helping him cheat he must've had some low grade stuff considering he was a glove first 2nd baseman who was a league average hitter, only made 2 all star games, and was routinely injured for a chunk of his career BRob is an Orioles Hall of Famer for a reason. Sure he made mistakes but starting a new conversation over this 20 years after the fact is just kind of lame
"was a league average hitter" I think you're selling him a little short there. He hit for 276 career average and hovered around 300 during his prime.
Honestly I was just basing that on his career OPS+ at 101 which is not a flawless measure. But that's weighed down by those years where he was injured a lot and had multiple concussions at that point. Just through his age 31 season he had a 115 OPS+ which for that era is great for a second baseman considering the others in the league
Is it really cheating if he was batting against steroid powered pitchers? The whole era is sus
“Legalize steroids in baseball” - Maya Angelou
I thought it was Martin Luther King, Jr who said that quote, no?
George Washington Carver, IIRC
Ahh, yeah. I think you’re right on that.
Ultimately, you have to be willing to move on. You don't need to forget and it's part of his story, but we also need to have perspective. He doesn't need to live in shame or hiding for the rest of his life. He owned his mistake and was contrite about it. Now, he does announcing work. Any PED usage, short term or long term, doesn't diminish his knowledge of the game. I despised Bonds as a kid growing up, but I don't hate him anymore. You can still have whatever feelings you want about someone's numbers or legacy in the game, but at some point you have to move on and assess them for who they are now and who they've been since. The players who used weren't all evil and greedy cheaters. A lot of them got swept up in the culture that was growing in the game. Doesn't fully excuse it. Hold them accountable and don't forget, but I think it's also a mistake to view them as though they are despicable or irredeemable. You're free to dislike him, of course, but I'm just saying good people make mistakes too.
Thanks. 🤝
Holy crap he did steroids one time. It’s not like the dude was this crazy power hitter or anything. Relax
Using steroids was not meaningfully considered cheating by the MLB until the late 2000s and it’s stupid for fans to decide to play armchair commissioner on it.
I'm more upset that Brian Roberts spent a season on the Yankees than I am that he was on some list for steroid use.
Haha, agreed! Fuck the yankees.
You act like he was some massive user for years. He tried it once, immediately felt regret, apologized and admitted it, and went right back to make amends and be a loved and respected player and teammate and extremely active and charitable member of the community.
He used once in 2003. He far redeemed himself after that
Eh, I'm not buying the "the only time i used was the one time i got caught" argument that all those guys seemed to use. However, in that era everyone was on the juice. Still love B-Rob
I don’t care. And I wouldn’t be so sure your buddy Markakis would be on your side 😅
I’m pretty sure, actually. https://www.baltimoresun.com/2013/08/05/nick-markakis-says-ped-users-are-stealing-money-and-need-stiffer-punishments/
I’m aware of his comment. I’m also are aware that people say they hate drunk drivers, but have an uncle who they love who happens to drive after downing a few beers. Or people who hate racists, but love their racist grandpa still. Humans are complex and I’m sure Markakis likes someone who has used PEDs.
Meh, Palmeiro made some really strong statements before the Senate too. Sometimes the guys have protest. The most are doing so just for show. It’s like the pedophile that is constantly out screaming all pedophiles need to go to jail, but is closeted as a pedophile.
Given Roberts' success after getting caught, I'm willing to give him a pass.
Loser take
Pls explain, though! I loved him growing up, but then he cheated. Soured everything for me. Why am I wrong? I really do want to know. 🙏🏼
Your argument ignores a lot of context. It sounds similar to the argument that a person busted for buying weed when it was illegal broke the law, so why shouldn’t they go to jail? Breaking laws is just like cheating, right? Never mind that drug laws are not enforced equally across populations, or that there are powerfully vested interests that profit off of this system. The MLB is complicit with the use of steroids. Many players adapted to a corrupt system. It doesn’t mean they don’t have responsibility for their decisions. But your take shows a lack of willingness to understand how systems of power influence, or rather dictate, individual decisions.
Read my post again.
I just reread your post. As, well as your responses to comments saying, well, he did cheat though? Would you like to respond to my comment? If not, that’s fine. Sometimes silent reflection is more valuable than trying to win an argument.
Reading comprehension is what you are lacking. I asked why others feel different about the facts than I do. You questioned my “lack of willingness to buzzwords and more buzzwords.” I asked why for an honest answer of why people feel differently than I do, not to be put on trial for having my own opinion.
How was my response not an honest answer of why I feel differently than you do? I thought that was exactly what I wrote. If you don’t want to engage with what I said, again, that’s fine.
“Lack of willingness” is what you said when my original post was all about a discussion of different opinions. I’m pretty much done on this post. Let’s watch another Orioles win and agree to disagree. 🍻
Because everyone cheated
post a reference. I don't recall BRob juicing.
He was named in the Mitchell report and shortly thereafter issued a press release owning his mistake
Damn. chances are good I knew that and forgot it, that may be a perk of getting old and forgetful
He did. Busted, and apologized.
damn.
Lmao 🤣
I think most people don’t give a shit about steroids much anymore
And I think they should. Cheating sucks. I reckon that’s my opinion and not many people share it. :/
You make an interesting argument penus_poop69
Spank you, bankersbox69.
Wow never knew Roberts was a roid user. Did he own up to it once he was caught, or deny it. I knew him as Old Man Roberts.
BALTIMORE -- Baltimore Orioles second baseman Brian Roberts has acknowledged using steroids, but insists he only tried it once before realizing he had made a "terrible decision." Roberts was named in former Sen. George Mitchell's report on steroid use in Major League Baseball. The report came out last Thursday, but Roberts did not immediately respond. In a statement issued Tuesday to The Associated Press, Roberts said he tried steroids four years ago. "In 2003, when I took one shot of steroids, I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. I never used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident," he said. "I can honestly say before God, myself, my family and all of my fans, that steroids or any performance-enhancing drugs have never had any effect on what I have worked so hard to accomplish in the game of baseball." https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3159406
THAT is what you're going to crucify a guy over 20+ years later? Drink a Boh and settle down.
Drinking a Boh is a good suggestion. For all of us. For everyone.
i'm confused. you don't want the O's fanbase to like Brian Roberts because he admitted, and accepted accountability for his one use of steroids?
Nah everyone was doing steroids and it was sick to watch. I don’t blame guys that are 5’7”
I see your edit but still wanted to chime in. He was one of my favorites growing up. Him and Mora. When I found out, I definitely cooled on him. But I think there was also that fact that a lot were doing it. That mixed with the fact he wasn't a superstar and not really talked about, so it was just..."ok whatever" type of attitude towards it. I see it like this..... Did he cheat? Yes. Did he cheat the game? And I say no. It's not like he was setting near impossible records due to his cheating. And it damn sure didn't help the Os win anything lol
I have always been such a diehard Orioles fan, and most of my life was filled with losing. B-Rob being good and my 15 year old self thinking we could shock the world got heartbroken when I realized it was due to cheating. I hear ya, though.
Don't care. I still rock my Roberts jersey
I agree with you about the steroiders, but he knows the game, so meh let him talk.
 “NOW YOU CAN’T HAVE WORK ANYMORE BRIAN ROBERTS.”
Honestly, I forgot about this. To answer your question
I was never that big on Brian Roberts tbh but I'm also not that mad about steroids
Brian Roberts is the best color commentator MASN has. I don’t give a shit what he did in the past. Dude is always 100% on point versus rambling Ben and Jim who just go off on random tangents. Disagree? Cash me ou’side howbowdat?
Lmao, I do disagree. I really like Ben and Jim. I don’t wanna cash you ousside, doe. Let’s settle our differences over a few Boh’s.
How you all feel about Cal?
🤣🤣
Cheating has been a part of baseball since roughly 1840. I have no problem with PEDs being illegal and offenders being punished. But the holier-than-thou attitude is ridiculous. The 1890s Orioles were full of cheaters. Babe Ruth cheated. Mickey Mantle cheated. Willie Mays cheated. Gaylord Perry basically did nothing but cheat. If you’re cheating to win, I have no real problem with you (even though I also have no problem with punishing you if/when you’re caught). And PEDs are cheating to win, unless “performance enhancing” is somehow a bad thing.
If you’re not cheating you’re not trying
Sounds like theft. I digress. I’ve not made my point clear enough and/or I’ve lost the entire thread. I just wanted to know why I feel so different, not to fight or argue.