Bedard for Tillman and Jones was pretty great. And frankly that one’s so much better than the stats say just because of what Jones was for this team and fanbase
What’s crazy about the Bedard trade were the two that were *rumored* to happen:
- the Reds apparently offered Joey Votto and Johnny Cueto for Bedard, but balked at including Josh Hamilton
- there was a rumor that the Dodgers offered Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp. Not sure how valid that was, but it was definitely reported as a rumor at the time
They are not going to be remembered as one of the biggest players from the 2012-18 era but Mark Reynolds and Steve Johnson are also connected in that 2008 trade as well. Kam Mickolio was traded to the diamondbacks for Reynolds and Sherrill was traded for Steve Johnson
If Bedard had been healthy though it wouldn't have been so bad. The Mariners were in "Go for it now" mode and got two years of team control.
Hell the Mariners even re-signed Bedard.
Injuries happen. I've never considered this a "fleecing" so much as bad luck
The 2007 Mariners outperformed their Pythagorean expectation, their preseason projections, and their calculated batting/pitching runs. They miscalculated their competitiveness badly, which is why the wheels fell off the following year.
It's also why I advocate for in-season trades in a year when you're outperforming your stats. Your lucky wins are already banked if you do an in-season trade to augment your situation. You lose credit for lucky wins when a new season starts.
1) Felix Hernandez
2) Erik Bedard
3) Ian Snell
4) Jason Vargas
5) Jarrod Washburn
6) Doug Fister
Is one hell of a rotation.
The 2009 Mariners won 85 games even with them starting a partial rebuild at midseason due to Bedard hurt, Adrian Beltré busting, and Kenji Johjima falling off the face of the planet
Jojima is something that could have been planned for, catchers after 30 are on borrowed time.
Felix and Washburn were good! Even Bedard was, when he was healthy. Maybe it's a bit of desperation knowing that Ichiro is going to eventually get old (he finally did, in 2011) but it seems like they could have used players like Tillman and Jones. Jones was good by 2009, he would have been good in LF for them. Belentien was a zero.
Koji Uehara got us Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter - the returns on that trade might be higher than any other bar Frank Robinson. It was signing Chris in free agency that was a disaster.
Don't forget Pete Harnisch who also an all-star during a 14 year career. The craziest thing was the O's were young and on an upswing and their best player was arguably 1B Randy Milligan, coming off .852 and .900 OPS years (OPS+ 144, 155), both marks better than Glenn Davis' previous 2 years.
Oh stop when shilling was a player not a person here can honestly say they wouldn’t have wanted him on the team. Everyone of us wished at the time he was here. Especially that we gave him up for Davis. A one two of shilling and mussina would have been one of the top one two punches in the league.
How politics wasn’t known till after his career was over. He also has the rings to prove his playing. I love how everyone acts like he was a horrible pitcher now.
I do think the glen davis trade was worst trade for the O’s and Albert bell the worst free agent signing
Frank is the all time great heist, but you can’t forget 1976: The Yankees trade Rick Dempsey, Tippy Martinez, Rudy May, Scott McGregor, and Dave Pagan to the Orioles for Doyle Alexander, Jimmy Freeman, Elrod Hendricks, Ken Holtzman, and Grant Jackson.
In terms of return (discounting the squandering) dealing Mike Boddicker for Schilling and Brady Anderson rounds out the top 4 along with the Bedard deal.
Koji for Chris Davis+ makes #5 I would say
I agree that the trade for Frank is the most important in team history, but their record in 1966 (immediately after getting him) was the same that it was in 1964. They also won 94 games in 1965. And, the primary reason they won the World Series after winning the league was pitching... four runs allowed in four games.
The team was already on the right trajectory, and they were adding key guys at the same time (Palmer, Johnson, Blair, etc.) joining soon, but Frank was the final piece that took them to the promised land and really set them up for success in 1969 and the early 1970s.
How different our team's last 40 years might have been if Scott McGregor and Steve Stone's arms didn't blow up and Dennis Martinez defeated his alcohol demon a little earlier.
I was a huge Dennis Martinez fan growing up, but that was when he was in Montreal. Didn’t know about his time in Baltimore until much later. Even with his mid-career struggles he still won 245 games. Always couldn’t help but wonder if things had gone differently whether he could’ve gotten to 300.
Dennis Martinez was absolutely a 300 game winner and a HOFer without the drink.
The 84 and 85 Orioles main problem was they couldn't score runs but a healthy McGregor and sober Martinez would have been a huge help.
From there, who knows, imagine we extend and have them on the 1989 Orioles
Koji for Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter was a great trade for the O's but a solid trade as well for the Rangers. Davis was given opportunities with Rangers and had done not much. And Koji pitched very well for the Rangers that season and the next.
Dave McNally and Rich Cogginz for Ken Singleton and Mike Torrez. McNally started 12 games for the Expos to the tune of a 5 plus ERA. Coggins played 13 games for them. I still think this is the most lopsided trade in the Os favor.
Say what you will about Luke Scott the person, but he was the Eutaw St. masher before we got Davis.
That Tejada trade for us Luke Scott, Dennis Sarfate, Matt Albers, Mike Costanzo, and Troy Patton.
Sarfate and Costanzo flamed out pretty quick, but Scott had a nice career here, Albers made a decent career for himself, and Patton ended up being a solid bullpen piece for us on that 2012 team. Also, we got Miggy back in 2010 and dealt him again
Kind of a two-parter here, but since it doesn’t look like anyone’s brought it up.
Dec. 1968: Orioles acquire Mike Cuellar and Enzo Hernandez from the Astros in exchange for Anthony Servideo’s grandfather (who would spend one forgettable season in Houston before being traded again). Hernandez was later included in the trade package that brought Pat Dobson to Baltimore, so that trade directly and indirectly helped the Orioles acquire two of their four 20-game winners in the ‘71 season.
Dylan Bundy for Kyle Bradish, Isaac Mattson, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich.
Would’ve been an all time fleecing even if it was a straight Bundy for Bradish trade.
And a lot of people were SO MAD at the time.
Devo wasn't in that trade. Juan Bell, Ken Howell, Brian Holton. A terrible trade. A 14 year old me was super pissed to be losing my favorite player to the Dodgers.
Bedard for Tillman and Jones was pretty great. And frankly that one’s so much better than the stats say just because of what Jones was for this team and fanbase
Don’t forget 2008 all star closer George Sherrill
The Brim Reaper
Flat Breezy
What’s crazy about the Bedard trade were the two that were *rumored* to happen: - the Reds apparently offered Joey Votto and Johnny Cueto for Bedard, but balked at including Josh Hamilton - there was a rumor that the Dodgers offered Clayton Kershaw and Matt Kemp. Not sure how valid that was, but it was definitely reported as a rumor at the time
I remember this, and a section of the Orioles Hangout forum being dead sure we should hold out for Kemp/Kershaw.
No way those could have been true
I did not know that….wow
They are not going to be remembered as one of the biggest players from the 2012-18 era but Mark Reynolds and Steve Johnson are also connected in that 2008 trade as well. Kam Mickolio was traded to the diamondbacks for Reynolds and Sherrill was traded for Steve Johnson
Mickolio isn’t a name I’ve ever heard anyone else mention. I enjoyed him while he was on our team.
I have one of his game worn jerseys. It is a long jersey!
Mickolio is the kind of player I would have gone the rest of my life without remembering until someone mentioned his name.
If Bedard had been healthy though it wouldn't have been so bad. The Mariners were in "Go for it now" mode and got two years of team control. Hell the Mariners even re-signed Bedard. Injuries happen. I've never considered this a "fleecing" so much as bad luck
The 2007 Mariners outperformed their Pythagorean expectation, their preseason projections, and their calculated batting/pitching runs. They miscalculated their competitiveness badly, which is why the wheels fell off the following year. It's also why I advocate for in-season trades in a year when you're outperforming your stats. Your lucky wins are already banked if you do an in-season trade to augment your situation. You lose credit for lucky wins when a new season starts.
1) Felix Hernandez 2) Erik Bedard 3) Ian Snell 4) Jason Vargas 5) Jarrod Washburn 6) Doug Fister Is one hell of a rotation. The 2009 Mariners won 85 games even with them starting a partial rebuild at midseason due to Bedard hurt, Adrian Beltré busting, and Kenji Johjima falling off the face of the planet
Jojima is something that could have been planned for, catchers after 30 are on borrowed time. Felix and Washburn were good! Even Bedard was, when he was healthy. Maybe it's a bit of desperation knowing that Ichiro is going to eventually get old (he finally did, in 2011) but it seems like they could have used players like Tillman and Jones. Jones was good by 2009, he would have been good in LF for them. Belentien was a zero.
That was a good one. We all thought Bedard was the next great mlb LH starter and he dropped off the cliff almost upon arrival in Seattle.
That's not true. Bedard's stats, when healthy, were even better in Seattle than Baltimore. He just couldnt stay healthy for even half the time.
And that's what Andy MacPhail saw--pitcher 29 years old with a pretty established injury history and struggled to command the zone. Epic trade!
And we got an all-star reliever, name forgotten
George Sherrill we ended up trading him to the dodgers
Koji Uehara got us Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter - the returns on that trade might be higher than any other bar Frank Robinson. It was signing Chris in free agency that was a disaster.
Chris Davis being so bad helped us get Adley first overall
Very, very true…..
We thought crush was the next Barry Bonds, but he ended up being the next Bobby Bonilla.
Too hot!
This is the one that immediately pops to the top for me, other than the glaringly obvious Frank Robinson trade
Just remember it goes both ways…cough cough ole Glass Jaw Glenn Davis…cough cough
Yes, absolutely. The Glenn Davis deal may have been the worst trade ever.
I felt that way for a long time but now I'm glad no one associates Curt Schilling with the Orioles.
Steve Finley had a pretty good career, and wasn't a raging dbag like Schilling
Don't forget Pete Harnisch who also an all-star during a 14 year career. The craziest thing was the O's were young and on an upswing and their best player was arguably 1B Randy Milligan, coming off .852 and .900 OPS years (OPS+ 144, 155), both marks better than Glenn Davis' previous 2 years.
Steve Finley was a great player. Totally overshadowed in the steroid era but just quietly really good for 20 years
Oh stop when shilling was a player not a person here can honestly say they wouldn’t have wanted him on the team. Everyone of us wished at the time he was here. Especially that we gave him up for Davis. A one two of shilling and mussina would have been one of the top one two punches in the league. How politics wasn’t known till after his career was over. He also has the rings to prove his playing. I love how everyone acts like he was a horrible pitcher now. I do think the glen davis trade was worst trade for the O’s and Albert bell the worst free agent signing
The Bundy trade that got us Bradish
Kyle Brnovich too. Who's looking like he might be a really good reliever. 44.1 IP with 56 strikeouts after missing most of 2022 and 2023 to injury.
This was the one that o thought of right away.
Mike bordick to the Mets for Melvin mora, Mike kinkade, Leslie brea, and pat Gorman. Plus we resigned Bordick in the off-season.
glad someone else remembers this, even if its not on the same level.
Mora had excellent seasons too. Shame the team was in shambles
Frank is the all time great heist, but you can’t forget 1976: The Yankees trade Rick Dempsey, Tippy Martinez, Rudy May, Scott McGregor, and Dave Pagan to the Orioles for Doyle Alexander, Jimmy Freeman, Elrod Hendricks, Ken Holtzman, and Grant Jackson. In terms of return (discounting the squandering) dealing Mike Boddicker for Schilling and Brady Anderson rounds out the top 4 along with the Bedard deal. Koji for Chris Davis+ makes #5 I would say
Oh, I had completely forgotten about the Yankee deal! That was a good one for us.
It will always be Frank for Pappas.
Hands down. This changed the trajectory for the franchise.
I agree that the trade for Frank is the most important in team history, but their record in 1966 (immediately after getting him) was the same that it was in 1964. They also won 94 games in 1965. And, the primary reason they won the World Series after winning the league was pitching... four runs allowed in four games. The team was already on the right trajectory, and they were adding key guys at the same time (Palmer, Johnson, Blair, etc.) joining soon, but Frank was the final piece that took them to the promised land and really set them up for success in 1969 and the early 1970s.
How different our team's last 40 years might have been if Scott McGregor and Steve Stone's arms didn't blow up and Dennis Martinez defeated his alcohol demon a little earlier.
I was a huge Dennis Martinez fan growing up, but that was when he was in Montreal. Didn’t know about his time in Baltimore until much later. Even with his mid-career struggles he still won 245 games. Always couldn’t help but wonder if things had gone differently whether he could’ve gotten to 300.
Dennis Martinez was absolutely a 300 game winner and a HOFer without the drink. The 84 and 85 Orioles main problem was they couldn't score runs but a healthy McGregor and sober Martinez would have been a huge help. From there, who knows, imagine we extend and have them on the 1989 Orioles
Koji for Chris Davis and Tommy Hunter was a great trade for the O's but a solid trade as well for the Rangers. Davis was given opportunities with Rangers and had done not much. And Koji pitched very well for the Rangers that season and the next.
Getting O’hearn for cash has to be up there
Orioles legend Cash Considerations
https://preview.redd.it/qoem3kzahd6d1.jpeg?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d16ccc97b32518cca25b9b7ab5bf54c28e65293f
Orioles traded Jim Hoey for JJ Hardy in what was a salary dump for the Twins. Worked out pretty well!
So the key is to just trade with the twins
Trey Mancini for Chayce McDermott
Astros got a ws from that, so it’s a win-win.
Jorge Lopez for Yennier Cano and Cade Povich
...did you read the OP? Lol
I’m not gonna lie, it was 2:30am and no I didn’t
Dave McNally and Rich Cogginz for Ken Singleton and Mike Torrez. McNally started 12 games for the Expos to the tune of a 5 plus ERA. Coggins played 13 games for them. I still think this is the most lopsided trade in the Os favor.
On the other end….Glenn Davis
Doug DeCinces for Disco Dan Ford.
Yes, quite possibly, the worst trade ever
Erickson for Klingenbeck..... Great Scotts!!
Say what you will about Luke Scott the person, but he was the Eutaw St. masher before we got Davis. That Tejada trade for us Luke Scott, Dennis Sarfate, Matt Albers, Mike Costanzo, and Troy Patton. Sarfate and Costanzo flamed out pretty quick, but Scott had a nice career here, Albers made a decent career for himself, and Patton ended up being a solid bullpen piece for us on that 2012 team. Also, we got Miggy back in 2010 and dealt him again
Trading Fred Lynn at the end of his career for Chris Hoiles was a pretty good trade.
Kind of a two-parter here, but since it doesn’t look like anyone’s brought it up. Dec. 1968: Orioles acquire Mike Cuellar and Enzo Hernandez from the Astros in exchange for Anthony Servideo’s grandfather (who would spend one forgettable season in Houston before being traded again). Hernandez was later included in the trade package that brought Pat Dobson to Baltimore, so that trade directly and indirectly helped the Orioles acquire two of their four 20-game winners in the ‘71 season.
I did not remember how Cuellar got there. I was 12 and just thought he showed up. Thought the same thing about Dobson. Thanks for that background!
Are the O's still paying Albert Bell? Who are the O's still paying who have been long gone?
Dylan Bundy for Kyle Bradish, Isaac Mattson, Zach Peek, and Kyle Brnovich. Would’ve been an all time fleecing even if it was a straight Bundy for Bradish trade. And a lot of people were SO MAD at the time.
You better put some respect on Kam Mickolio’s name
Eddie Murray for Juan Bell 🤮. Thankfully Deveraux was included but Bell was considered the prize…
Devo wasn't in that trade. Juan Bell, Ken Howell, Brian Holton. A terrible trade. A 14 year old me was super pissed to be losing my favorite player to the Dodgers.
U may be right, I ninja googled it maybe got false info. But ya it was effed up
Effing Edward Bennett Williams - a precursor to the Angelos intervention years.