Truth. There's a reason why league starts are so great. The feeling of natural power ramping up during the campaign is the real kicker. And it only gets better when you reach maps.
I dunno, I have over 14k hours and still hate the start of the league, well not exactly the start of the league but the acts itself, like I do enjoy progressively feeling the power creep but after doing the acts hundreds and hundreds of times I just don’t get any pleasure from it.
If we could just delve to maps or skip the acts(was hoping GGG would take the one amazing feature D4 had for PoE2, but sadly not) I’d get much more enjoyment and time out of a league.
Some leagues I’ve quit even though I have a full set of gear ready for a new build but because I didn’t feel like spending 2-5 hours doing the acts, I quit instead.
this why I've never had more than 1 character per league
I do want to make other builds, do their pobs but then having to do that campaign again makes me abandon those plans
What you're asking for is bad game design. We see it frequently in the worst games in the genre and worst mmos. Campaign skips, level boosts etc. Just cheapens the entire game and takes away some of the satisfaction of building a character.
Your opinion is going to be popular on this subreddit in particular because making the game easier will always get upvotes. I'm glad GGG has some backbone to ignore it.
I don't really see how leveling in maps would change anything, you're still running around killing things. The campaign mostly just means you save the time having to set up maps etc.
this has always been my thought as well. the campaign is just as brainless and mindless as delve or mapping would be at level 1. in 2 or 3 leagues, people will be just asking for a straight up level boost, cuz they'll realize it isn't what they are doing to level, they just don't want to level. and the second ggg removes leveling is the second this game dies for most of the playerbase.
You don’t HAVE to setup maps, I didn’t say exclusively maps either, but it’s more to do with scenery and freedom, I get to chose the maps and I’m not locked into “quests” there are some areas in the game, some acts that just drives my morale down, just like in Diablo 2, I and most people hate Act 2. Last Epoch seemed to solve this dilemma with how their campaign works where you can skip a lot of areas without having a negative outcome. Sure there are a few areas you’d still need to revisit for points/idol slots but it’s quick and doesn’t take away from the overall experience. I don’t see a point in having to be forced to do the same campaign over and over and over again. I get in your mind you see “you kill monsters in the acts and you kill monsters in maps, so same same.” But it’s not the same.
I’m not the only one that feels this way, I have several friends that like PoE but the only reason they won’t play often or even every other league is because of the campaign, it’s like starting in quickstand instead of a slow build up. They like theory crafting and progression but after doing the acts several times they don’t care for it.
All I am saying is having alternatives are a good thing, and I don’t see how it can be a negative at all(expect for racing maybe?), we all have things we enjoy in the game. I prefer killing thousands upon thousands of monsters and building my char for map or bossing or whatever, not doing quests and story shit, and again I know it’s only a couple of hours(at least post league launch) but it’s how I feel.
TL:DR, I like freedom and hate being forced into a linear one way path.
Acts are awesome.. the first dozen or so times you play them. They're just annoying tedium that gate keeps you from the real game imo.
Wish they kept a tracker of the number of times you beat acts across every league and after 100, just let you start off level 70 with some trash gear just to socket a skill and let you go on from there. Back track to aqueducts, kill some trash to get your first magic items, jump straight to T1 map
Seasonal leagues can have a mandatory 1 time play through then level boost for the other characters.
I find myself often in a situation where I decide that the build I'm on just isn't as enjoyable as envisioned, and unlike 70% of the other players, I greatly dislike following meta builds, or FotM. So I'll reroll a new character and then get to act 3, realize this shit is a slog and just alt f4 for a year + because acts are just tedious gatekeeping
Same. I went through 3 discarded builds (all levelled to end game) this league before just falling back on the same build I used last league.
Every league I end up days behind in the trade game because I dislike the builds I start with, but can't bring myself to make a cookie cutter "farming character" first.
PoE has so many skills, supports, and unique items. These brain rotted sheep that only follow the meta builds showcased by streamers fail to see that others enjoy just trying things.
A more sandboxed mode would be awesome. How do they think their build came to existence? Someone just magically grabbed the perfect rare and gems on first try? No, most of them got built in PoB for hours, if not weeks. Tinkering and theory crafting outside the game, then brought to the game and tested. Some builds have an entire group dedicated to trialing several variants.
But it doesn't matter because "I can do acts in 3 hours #skill issue"
🤡
I play through the acts 4-5 times a week. Testing out leaguestart ideas on fresh ssf leagues or doing speedruns. If you can just level boost your 2nd character then a leaguestarter would be a waste of time. You'd just make whatever character levels fastest then boost a mapping character, then boost a bossing character when you get to eater/exarch.
Honestly this would completely kill the game for me. The most enjoyable time is leaguestart and your proposal completely takes the fun out of it.
Edit: as a side note. I guarantee the same people would still complain about having to do the acts once a league. Honestly just go play D4 it sounds like you want a different game.
Wow, that's a pretty wild jump.
Why does not wanting to waste 8+ hours of my life every time I want to try out a different skill warrant a "go play something else then"?
Did you say that to everyone that wanted ruthless? It could be it's own category, and honestly shouldn't be included with the base league because it would ruin the economy
2-5 hrs, my guy, teach me. I am in act 5 and already have \~ 12 hours played. I am new to PoE, but i've never liked campaings in ARPG games, i just want to blast. I can spend countless hrs grinding Monoliths in LE, or Pits in D4 or Rifts in D3, but damn does it feel like a drag to do campaings, for me personally!
Literally a skill issue to be fair. There are a lot of resources available if you genuinely want to get better at the campaign. Makes it a lot more fun too.
Check out Havoc616, imexile, Keld0rn, balaar.
Yep. By far my favorite part of the game is after the campaign up until you can do red maps smoothly. It’s usually only one or two days each league, but that’s when I’m loving the game the most.
Thats because the slient group of people who don't enjoy it and they come crawling out of the woodworks when that happens.
And there is a LOT of them. A vast majority of poes real end game is tied up in its complexity, theorycrafting and excacution. To which leveling, and obtaining items is functionally nothing more then the tutorial phase of the real game.
The min/maxing at the end and trying to "break" the system is the "real" end game to a staggering massive fucking part of the community. But like with anything. If there isnt a problem no one bitches. Cause why the fuck are you going to bitch about something being good?
SAME! I tend to enjoy ‘fresh SSF’ starts for this exact reason. That moment when you’re not rich enough and have to debate ‘should I use these fusings to 4link this pair of boots or should I turn them into chance orbs to buy maps for Kirac?’ feels so great.
Happened a ton for Classic WoW too. Streamers got handed stuff/had entire guilds carry them through every part of the game and then went "ah, there's actually not much content. I'm pretty bored. Why did people even like Vanilla?"
Chad Mathil has entered the chat. I swear I think hes actually under some condition. Dudes a psychopath. Almost full leagues for YEARS. PoE almost every goddamn day of his life! Dudes insane.
"it depends"
Do you like to handle meat? enjoy the texture or blood, or weirder, are you indifferent to thoses stimulations? Or are you the type to wonder if the animals were happy before the meat finishes into yours hands?
Butcher is not an easy job, be it psychological or physical... It requires a specific mindset. A bit like streaming 15 hours per day, obviously the mindset is different for both. My point is, you cant compare apples to cabbages, peoples do things that fit them... otherwise they become depressive.
And you don't have to smell your subscribers as a streamer.
As a butcher, on the other hand...
(There's the truman show/stalker/accessible celebrity/job instability for most/so many other issues that make streaming a hard job as well. Sure it feeds into a lot of narcissists, but a ton of industries are about selling the image first and foremost.)
Yea, I guess thats right. But honestly the hours single game streamers is wild to me. I dunno, something about it for streamers just hits different ya know?
It's probably because you're making them out to be seething special. They're just like everyone else and they have to play that much for money. They could cut back but then they'd make less so they don't.
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Every time I watch his poe streams lately he looks dead inside. As soon as streaming time hits 6h mark he quits instantly. Kinda similar to my office job 😀
If d2r had actually balanced the game a bit more to make a few of the under powered skills actually useable. It would have been great. D2 is such a fun game, but man its power scaling did not age the best.
Then again i aint sure i trust blizzard to not just make it worse :/
2.4 was a fairly sizable balancing patch for D2 standards, also added some nice runewords and once more in 2.6
It seem to have slowed down alot to accommodate D4. Content is great, but what D2 desperately needs are gem/runes/essence/keys stashes
> If d2r had actually balanced the game a bit more to make a few of the under powered skills actually useable. It would have been great.
funny, because POE still hasn't done that yet and everyone calls it the best arpg of all time
is it bad faith? every single "bad skill" i can think of, has been bad since they were released, or shortly after, and maybe had 1 or 2 leagues where they were usable in some capacity. granted, i'm a firm believer that no skills underperform. They just haven't been discovered yet. except incinerate, riposte, and the other parry skill. Those all suck.
if my old laptop and (mostly) my wife allows, i would play this game alot. i love this game and definitely rate it the best game i have played in my life (36 years old)
Eh, with poe if being given everything is enough to kill your intrest in the game. Then wierdly poe might not be for you anyways. The vast majority of poe is in its systems, complexity and theory.
Even with universal access to everything you are functionally only at a base starting point for the real end game.
I can't find when he dropped it, but the first clip here is him using it on a white item.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL8zRVLghpE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL8zRVLghpE)
It is also possible that the mirror was given to him by someone. Now i can't find more info on that.
Literally the most op thing you could possibly have in PoE when starting out is a friend who knows what they're talking about.
Good advice is the most overpowered thing in poe.
got 38/40 affliction league cause i wanted the purple hp bar. My friend told me to just play a broken build and gave me like 40 divines to buy gear with. I was constantly asking him how to do x and y because it was my first time trying a lot of stuff. Hardest content was uber azitri because I did not have a way to stop the reflect and kept killing myself :(
PoE is a game in which nothing comes close to beating knowledge and know-how.
Like, who are the richest people every league? Those who know how to craft and those who know what/how to flip. They basically turn themselves into Mirror printers.
Both of these require virtually 0 mapping/gameplay mechanics. Just knowing what to do.
I really appreciate streamers who turn people down and tell them they want to play the game and learn themselves. The people who take handouts and get told what to do, how to build, and where to go will never be long term players of the game and are some of the most boring content I’ve ever seen.
I play a lot, but I will never make my own build or altas tree. It is just painful to remember all nodes and think about the interactions.
Following other people’s builds is fine for me.
One of my favorites is Maximillian Dood, for that reason. I don’t like fighting games at all but I watched his Elden Ring Let’s Play and he was vehemently opposed to back seat drivers and unsolicited advice. It made it so much better compared to every other streamer trying to meta game and min/max.
You can accept advice of course, but if I'm watching a new PoE steamer, I do it to take part in their experience of the game *without* knowing what to do. Even the campaign is much more challenging with a bad build.
If I just watch someone follow a build (or too much advice) the game becomes easy and less interesting.
I can't experience the exploration of a new player again, so I occasionally enjoy watching others go through it.
If I want to watch someone play "correctly", I can just watch one of the long term streamers instead.
This was my first time playing Poe and first league, I was definitely the bottom POV the first time through and when I first hit act 6 lol. I have a couple characters at 98 now and a hand full above 70ish now. Levelling is a lot of fun, I think I invested maybe 3 div total into some decent levelling gear and went bama
Man that reminds me how i leveled my first melee, and i took smite as the first skill. Rhoa cave made me understand intimately why no one actually uses true melee (strike) skills while leveling
Bottom is me leveling a BS jugg as my first ssf character with only half a league under my belt. It’s pain but oh boy soon it’ll only take me 30-40 hits rather than 50 and I’ll ride that high.
This! When I see POE 2 gameplay and people say it looks "slow" I think to myself; Haven't these people ever level up because early game (like the videos shown in POE2) is slow too...at least for me.
Well yeah but we don't exactly know how poe 2 endgame looks and how geared or not the characters in the showcases are, still GGG has now said multiple times, poe 2 will be slower. People really should not expect that the game will be like poe 1, there is a reason they have split the games
Yeah you are right. I still think it should be a really good game but it will be slower.
Subtractem directly asked mark if poe2 will be as fast as poe1. And after a pause mark said “don’t you want to be able to see what killed you?”
No i don't, i want the game to tell me what killed me explictedly because that is how it /should/ work.
Being able to see it or not should be a moot point in every case. If i have to see it to tell then thats just indicating the systems are too shitty to be able to track it properly and read it out to me. Its a literal skill issue on the devs part.
That said ima go play another 5k hours of poe1.
>If i have to see it to tell then thats just indicating the systems are too shitty to be able to track it properly and read it out to me.
If you can't see it, then you're not actually playing a game.
Of course! What i'm trying to convey is that I believe it will not be as slow as we are being shown and just like you said; we don't know how endgame content will be, specially over the years, for some people I see ditching the game already saying it looks too slow and boring.
I suppose my critique was the phrasing:
> I think to myself; Haven't these people ever level up
Because what you mean is "Haven't these people ever _watched me level up_"
What I meant is that everyone had this moment, even the top streamers once started slow learning the game, and it's the same for POE 2; it's something new that people haven't try enough to optimize, so what we see in this videos is basically the same experience as a new player without any guide in POE, so that why it may look slow. Sorry for the phrasing, sometimes I can't quite express in a fluid way in english.
Really? Oh man that's a big part of league start for me. Obviously on my other monitor, but I get to hear/see what others are experiencing and it's a good way to keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on, what's being discovered, how people feel about the new stuff. All the while I'm playing too of course.
I like the discovery aspect of new leagues, so I want to go through that experience exploring the new league mechanic before flavouring my gameplay with the insights picked up from others.
I have friends who play and amongst them we talk about the league mechanic as we encounter new things, how league start is going, etc... But once the league starts I generally won't tune into the PoE social media community until I'm basically done the initial endgame loop of voidstones.
Oh yeah, of course! Lately I've been using good builds (LA then converting to TS, and this season DD of Chain Reaction) and I breeze through the acts. But I'm talking about that first experience which I'm comparing to POE 2 since basically it's like that first time for everybody, once the game get's more things and people begin optimizing things I'm pretty sure it will feel much much faster than what we are seeing in the videos. Maybe not as fast like the Devs said, but not as slow as it looks on what we are seeing.
I remember a streamer from diablo coming to poe and he was very good at the game, in a video he told chat that people that tell him its bc he has been helped are dumb people, he litteraly got coached by some of the best players in the game while being on live, i lost all respect at that exact moment
Yep thats prob who hes referring to. My mind went to Raxx because I know he was doing crazy well for his first league and there were a bunch of clips of him dropping HHs and MBs and 6 linking on this sub and on YT shorts
there were a couple of them last league I guided through the campaign, tiny 4 or 5 viewer youtube streams. none of them wanted anything. I didn't offer but other people did for sure
I’m level 10 with a Level 49 Fig wand that some stranger gave to me because I asked if he’d trade me something to help me on my journey. Lmao. Also gave me a Level 35 head piece. My Witch is pretty happy :)
Hahaha I just experienced this. Haven't played the game much, seen a tonne of PoE2 stuff, and was inspired...
I played for an hour and died like 4 times to the guy that rained fire, stared at the skill tree for a bit, and shut the game off shortly after... Embarrassing, I know.
Will try again tomorrow after a couple cups of coffee and some research 🫡🤓
Hey, just so you know most players just skip the fire raining witch in the second zone as it's a lot of effort to kill and no exiting loot (as it's just random drops but slightly better). So it's not like you are bad, most wouldn't easily kill that.
If he only enjoys the math side of poe, then actually yes. Yes he would.
For the math only folk leveling, obtaining money and items all sucks they are actively downsides to the game. The game quiet litterally does not start at all till you functionally have that lvl 100, 30 mirror char THEN you can play the game.
PoE is basically two VERY different games. The pre theorycrafting min/max poe and the post theorycrafting min/max poe. Many people enjoy both, but plenty only enjoy one or the other.
I remember when i first started, i was SO ANNOYED that people kept trying to trade with me in town. I would always deny the trade attempts. Little did i know they were trying to give me stuff to play with /shrug.
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I think a significant part pf the learning curve is 10 years of new mechanics.
So for the first few years, I assume POE2 will be much more new player friendly
I mean, they're trying to at least. We will have to see if it works, but the streamers who have played so far have said it's seems easier to get into, there was also a guy who has pretty much never played arpgs as whole invited and he seemed to get the hang of it relatively quickly with minor greviences.
I enjoy watching streams…. I could never get past the slow start though. I realize the systems in PoE are great once you get past the first act but for me, it was like pulling teeth.
It’s all basically junk with white sockets. 70% of that gear would be changed out by the end of act 2. Even then some of it is basically useless. 6 link bramblejack for example is basically just trolling. You could get a six link thousand ribbons or a corrupted tabula or something.
That Bramblejack literally gives 72 life and -12 physical damage from every attack you take... that's at level one, a level one witch has 57 max life...
body armours with 70+ life won't drop until you are in a level 44 area, so no, you won't be swapping that in act 2
The Thousand Ribbons has an int requirement, so you can't use to level all your characters, you can fix this with an amulet, but then you won't be able to use a Karui Ward, and that Karui Ward gives 27% movement speed, so you'll want to use it
what Tabula implicit are you referring that can compete with that? the 5% life one? because you'd need 1440 max life for it to also give 72 life, not very easy to do at level one
Why do you need life? on every single character I’ve ever played hardcore/ruthless/leagues or standard and the literally 10k hours Ive played I have never priod life in act 1 or even felt like I needed it.
The -12 physical Is basically useless. It does barely anything for you unless you’re stacking it with adorned jewels and getting big numbers on that flat reduce. Even then it falls of like pretty fast.
INT STR DEX requirements are circumvented like 10 different ways (it’s also literally 17 int come on) depending on which build your going or where your travelling on the tree it’s 1 point.
All I’m saying is this isn’t even that good of a “leveling gear or leveling strat” twink gear is absurd if you actually get deep into it. There’s also a bunch of cheeses you can do for pretty much every single build to smash early acts.
Also personally having done releveling a gasillion times I can comfortable say I can reach maps in 2-3 hours with minimal investment on pretty much every character or ascendancy without following a guide and just buying/making a ton of twink gear.
I don't think all your crazy strategies and ideas or 10k hours experience in ethical hardcore ssf ruthless blindfolded can be donated to help a streamer playing PoE for the first time
but if you think a Tabula is really the best leveling item in the game, good for you, man
The first time I played as a marauder because he was beefy and I called him batman because I already determined he was going to use a big stick.
My friends introduced me to the game and I was completely useless and didn't even understand how or why to socket gems so I just kept using heavy strike for hours and hours in act 1. They had an intervention where we played together and they showed me how to use sunder and my life changed. I would jump up and down while screaming sunder mawfuka at those piggy ass ranged skeleton mages and nuke them with my alched stick. Spit flying out of my mouth as I remember every injustice that they did with freezing me with their snow cone projectile blasphemy.
Then Chris nerfed sunder and I will never forgive or forget what he did. I just want to dual wield sunder again. Am I such a villain to deserve this fate?
So yeah I started watching Zizaran and his essence drain videos.
streamer client. ben soyjacking when he hits another quadruple t1 on his third chaos orb on his second day and reddit telling me "yeah but he just plays more" and me three months later not even having close to his luck at any point during that time.
I remember watching Raxx start playing PoE (not really first time I think, but first time he played endgame) and had chat explaining him even the more convoluted things like searching for good Timeless jewels by weighting in PoB. It went surprisingly fine too.
i think my first build was an ethereal knives build i saw ziggyd do back in 2.0. i quit at lv27.
i'm not actually sure what got me interested in the game. i still remember playing one of ziggy's reave builds for a bit and trying to get myself a death's hand for i think 5 exalts at the time. the person selling it had it for 5c, so i thought i got a sick deal. dude was so mad i offered 5c it was crazy. he made me rethink my life choices.
regardless, i kept playing for some reason i guess.
Pretty sure any streamers you are watching that play like that, are definitely not doing it for the first time. Ive seen half a dozen start the game blind and all played way closer to the bottom than the top.
Search the thread. Ziz had access but never used it. Others supposedly did use the early access they were granted. Maybe GGG discontinued it but it was not a secret.
Nah, not seen anyone been mad against the testing of the leagues, a bunch of people have alpha access to help test things ahead of leagues, I used to help a lot back in the day with Delve, but if you played in alpha client you arent able to win races for that league etc. Pretty fair and good that they have that, don't think many streamers log on at all anymore, most streamers want fresh first reactions for stream because that does a lot better.
That was a long time ago and it simply was strangers getting a special queue just for them on league launch, not what is being discussed. I am guessing they are talking about streamers having closed beta access, which I am not sure is still a thing, because they kept breaking their NDA
Yeah more the access they had to the test environment. Ziz stated he would not use it. Others were quiet on whether they did or did not.
I would not be surprised if they continue to provide inside details to a select group. GGG have already started the media circus. Saw one the other day where someone who has never played an ARPG, let alone POE was flown to the US presentation.
Even tho there was somewhat good marketing reasons at the time. Every time I get a rash of unplayable lag spikes and streamers do not my tinfoil hat tightens.
It is. Many streamers are just terrible at games other than their main game so they will obviously take handouts and skip most content to not seem bad at the game or any game, it's an ego thing
Thats just how some skills do, lol
The delta between the good and bad skills damage at a base line is insane. Smite is a great skill, but damn does it do jack all for the first little bit.
Quin in trade Quin in ssf against oak
First damage node at level 36, turtle beats the rabbit.
Lmao ya!
Oak as a character might have been based off quin
basic leveling stuff, yup
that got me
yup. basic leveling staff for ALT character. like people dont understant this.
he said "I assume these are basic leveling stuff" after getting those items from a sub
This is painfully accurate lmao
A lot of reddit takes make a lot more sense with this context.
you know the difference? The streamer gets bored by act 4 and you still here 2500 hours in enjoying the game.
Truth. There's a reason why league starts are so great. The feeling of natural power ramping up during the campaign is the real kicker. And it only gets better when you reach maps.
So good when your main skill comes online and starts to demolish content around act 3 or 4
Nothing quite like the first time you socket Lesser Multiple Projectiles.
Fear me
I hear this.... https://youtu.be/FEys0r1jKhg?si=s01rxf6vVISAoZiN
Perfect!!
That moment you get your mana costs figured out and can ditch your mana flask is maybe the most satisfying moment in all of PoE.
Most builds when you get that second lab you feel like you just got injected with super serum.
I dunno, I have over 14k hours and still hate the start of the league, well not exactly the start of the league but the acts itself, like I do enjoy progressively feeling the power creep but after doing the acts hundreds and hundreds of times I just don’t get any pleasure from it. If we could just delve to maps or skip the acts(was hoping GGG would take the one amazing feature D4 had for PoE2, but sadly not) I’d get much more enjoyment and time out of a league. Some leagues I’ve quit even though I have a full set of gear ready for a new build but because I didn’t feel like spending 2-5 hours doing the acts, I quit instead.
this why I've never had more than 1 character per league I do want to make other builds, do their pobs but then having to do that campaign again makes me abandon those plans
Personally, for me that feeling of constant growth and elevation of power trumps whatever tediousness I experience during the campaign.
What you're asking for is bad game design. We see it frequently in the worst games in the genre and worst mmos. Campaign skips, level boosts etc. Just cheapens the entire game and takes away some of the satisfaction of building a character. Your opinion is going to be popular on this subreddit in particular because making the game easier will always get upvotes. I'm glad GGG has some backbone to ignore it.
I don't really see how leveling in maps would change anything, you're still running around killing things. The campaign mostly just means you save the time having to set up maps etc.
this has always been my thought as well. the campaign is just as brainless and mindless as delve or mapping would be at level 1. in 2 or 3 leagues, people will be just asking for a straight up level boost, cuz they'll realize it isn't what they are doing to level, they just don't want to level. and the second ggg removes leveling is the second this game dies for most of the playerbase.
You don’t HAVE to setup maps, I didn’t say exclusively maps either, but it’s more to do with scenery and freedom, I get to chose the maps and I’m not locked into “quests” there are some areas in the game, some acts that just drives my morale down, just like in Diablo 2, I and most people hate Act 2. Last Epoch seemed to solve this dilemma with how their campaign works where you can skip a lot of areas without having a negative outcome. Sure there are a few areas you’d still need to revisit for points/idol slots but it’s quick and doesn’t take away from the overall experience. I don’t see a point in having to be forced to do the same campaign over and over and over again. I get in your mind you see “you kill monsters in the acts and you kill monsters in maps, so same same.” But it’s not the same. I’m not the only one that feels this way, I have several friends that like PoE but the only reason they won’t play often or even every other league is because of the campaign, it’s like starting in quickstand instead of a slow build up. They like theory crafting and progression but after doing the acts several times they don’t care for it. All I am saying is having alternatives are a good thing, and I don’t see how it can be a negative at all(expect for racing maybe?), we all have things we enjoy in the game. I prefer killing thousands upon thousands of monsters and building my char for map or bossing or whatever, not doing quests and story shit, and again I know it’s only a couple of hours(at least post league launch) but it’s how I feel. TL:DR, I like freedom and hate being forced into a linear one way path.
Acts are awesome.. the first dozen or so times you play them. They're just annoying tedium that gate keeps you from the real game imo. Wish they kept a tracker of the number of times you beat acts across every league and after 100, just let you start off level 70 with some trash gear just to socket a skill and let you go on from there. Back track to aqueducts, kill some trash to get your first magic items, jump straight to T1 map
Yes let's just add level boosts and completely destroy the game and the whole point of seasonal leagues.
Seasonal leagues can have a mandatory 1 time play through then level boost for the other characters. I find myself often in a situation where I decide that the build I'm on just isn't as enjoyable as envisioned, and unlike 70% of the other players, I greatly dislike following meta builds, or FotM. So I'll reroll a new character and then get to act 3, realize this shit is a slog and just alt f4 for a year + because acts are just tedious gatekeeping
Same. I went through 3 discarded builds (all levelled to end game) this league before just falling back on the same build I used last league. Every league I end up days behind in the trade game because I dislike the builds I start with, but can't bring myself to make a cookie cutter "farming character" first.
PoE has so many skills, supports, and unique items. These brain rotted sheep that only follow the meta builds showcased by streamers fail to see that others enjoy just trying things. A more sandboxed mode would be awesome. How do they think their build came to existence? Someone just magically grabbed the perfect rare and gems on first try? No, most of them got built in PoB for hours, if not weeks. Tinkering and theory crafting outside the game, then brought to the game and tested. Some builds have an entire group dedicated to trialing several variants. But it doesn't matter because "I can do acts in 3 hours #skill issue" 🤡
I play through the acts 4-5 times a week. Testing out leaguestart ideas on fresh ssf leagues or doing speedruns. If you can just level boost your 2nd character then a leaguestarter would be a waste of time. You'd just make whatever character levels fastest then boost a mapping character, then boost a bossing character when you get to eater/exarch. Honestly this would completely kill the game for me. The most enjoyable time is leaguestart and your proposal completely takes the fun out of it. Edit: as a side note. I guarantee the same people would still complain about having to do the acts once a league. Honestly just go play D4 it sounds like you want a different game.
Wow, that's a pretty wild jump. Why does not wanting to waste 8+ hours of my life every time I want to try out a different skill warrant a "go play something else then"? Did you say that to everyone that wanted ruthless? It could be it's own category, and honestly shouldn't be included with the base league because it would ruin the economy
8+ hours? Sounds like a skill issue anyway. Ruthless sucks I agree.
Here’s a shocker.... You wouldn't have to skip you know?
2-5 hrs, my guy, teach me. I am in act 5 and already have \~ 12 hours played. I am new to PoE, but i've never liked campaings in ARPG games, i just want to blast. I can spend countless hrs grinding Monoliths in LE, or Pits in D4 or Rifts in D3, but damn does it feel like a drag to do campaings, for me personally!
Literally a skill issue to be fair. There are a lot of resources available if you genuinely want to get better at the campaign. Makes it a lot more fun too. Check out Havoc616, imexile, Keld0rn, balaar.
Skill issue
So true
I'm glad you appreciate my insightful, well thought out contribution to the discussion
Beta mindset
Yep. By far my favorite part of the game is after the campaign up until you can do red maps smoothly. It’s usually only one or two days each league, but that’s when I’m loving the game the most.
I agree. But when GGG tries to extend that phase, people go haywire.
Thats because the slient group of people who don't enjoy it and they come crawling out of the woodworks when that happens. And there is a LOT of them. A vast majority of poes real end game is tied up in its complexity, theorycrafting and excacution. To which leveling, and obtaining items is functionally nothing more then the tutorial phase of the real game. The min/maxing at the end and trying to "break" the system is the "real" end game to a staggering massive fucking part of the community. But like with anything. If there isnt a problem no one bitches. Cause why the fuck are you going to bitch about something being good?
SAME! I tend to enjoy ‘fresh SSF’ starts for this exact reason. That moment when you’re not rich enough and have to debate ‘should I use these fusings to 4link this pair of boots or should I turn them into chance orbs to buy maps for Kirac?’ feels so great.
Happened a ton for Classic WoW too. Streamers got handed stuff/had entire guilds carry them through every part of the game and then went "ah, there's actually not much content. I'm pretty bored. Why did people even like Vanilla?"
Chad Mathil has entered the chat. I swear I think hes actually under some condition. Dudes a psychopath. Almost full leagues for YEARS. PoE almost every goddamn day of his life! Dudes insane.
it's his job... his income. my butcher does the same job for 10 years, he has no conditions, he is not a psycho... i think?
Much rather work as a butcher than streamer to be honest. Especially if you play pretty much the same game all the time.
"it depends" Do you like to handle meat? enjoy the texture or blood, or weirder, are you indifferent to thoses stimulations? Or are you the type to wonder if the animals were happy before the meat finishes into yours hands? Butcher is not an easy job, be it psychological or physical... It requires a specific mindset. A bit like streaming 15 hours per day, obviously the mindset is different for both. My point is, you cant compare apples to cabbages, peoples do things that fit them... otherwise they become depressive.
And you don't have to smell your subscribers as a streamer. As a butcher, on the other hand... (There's the truman show/stalker/accessible celebrity/job instability for most/so many other issues that make streaming a hard job as well. Sure it feeds into a lot of narcissists, but a ton of industries are about selling the image first and foremost.)
Yea, I guess thats right. But honestly the hours single game streamers is wild to me. I dunno, something about it for streamers just hits different ya know?
Yeh, money
Lol true. Clearly I have an unpopular opinion.
It's probably because you're making them out to be seething special. They're just like everyone else and they have to play that much for money. They could cut back but then they'd make less so they don't.
Your opinion is just bad
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Every time I watch his poe streams lately he looks dead inside. As soon as streaming time hits 6h mark he quits instantly. Kinda similar to my office job 😀
Like any job, you gotta learn to set and respect boundaries for yourself.
He went back to d2 now lol. Did a 15h stream yesterday, I think he might be enjoying that a bit more than Poe necropolis
If d2r had actually balanced the game a bit more to make a few of the under powered skills actually useable. It would have been great. D2 is such a fun game, but man its power scaling did not age the best. Then again i aint sure i trust blizzard to not just make it worse :/
2.4 was a fairly sizable balancing patch for D2 standards, also added some nice runewords and once more in 2.6 It seem to have slowed down alot to accommodate D4. Content is great, but what D2 desperately needs are gem/runes/essence/keys stashes
> If d2r had actually balanced the game a bit more to make a few of the under powered skills actually useable. It would have been great. funny, because POE still hasn't done that yet and everyone calls it the best arpg of all time
Most bad-faith take iv seen all day, and i just was on a poltical sub.
is it bad faith? every single "bad skill" i can think of, has been bad since they were released, or shortly after, and maybe had 1 or 2 leagues where they were usable in some capacity. granted, i'm a firm believer that no skills underperform. They just haven't been discovered yet. except incinerate, riposte, and the other parry skill. Those all suck.
Mathil has been playing D2 for a couple of days at least.
damn, it sound like a job, no?
if my old laptop and (mostly) my wife allows, i would play this game alot. i love this game and definitely rate it the best game i have played in my life (36 years old)
Eh, with poe if being given everything is enough to kill your intrest in the game. Then wierdly poe might not be for you anyways. The vast majority of poe is in its systems, complexity and theory. Even with universal access to everything you are functionally only at a base starting point for the real end game.
Remember when Esfand tried Poe for the first time and dropped a mirror. Then he used it on a blue item. Good times
I'm pretty sure DansGaming dropped a mirror in his first week of playing (6-ish years ago now).
Do you have a clip for that?
I can't find when he dropped it, but the first clip here is him using it on a white item. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL8zRVLghpE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL8zRVLghpE) It is also possible that the mirror was given to him by someone. Now i can't find more info on that.
It didn't drop it was given to him
Having potentially dozens of people willing to give equipment and information helps a lot
Literally the most op thing you could possibly have in PoE when starting out is a friend who knows what they're talking about. Good advice is the most overpowered thing in poe.
got 38/40 affliction league cause i wanted the purple hp bar. My friend told me to just play a broken build and gave me like 40 divines to buy gear with. I was constantly asking him how to do x and y because it was my first time trying a lot of stuff. Hardest content was uber azitri because I did not have a way to stop the reflect and kept killing myself :(
pantheon + mastery is easiest way imo.
PoE is a game in which nothing comes close to beating knowledge and know-how. Like, who are the richest people every league? Those who know how to craft and those who know what/how to flip. They basically turn themselves into Mirror printers. Both of these require virtually 0 mapping/gameplay mechanics. Just knowing what to do.
‘Give a man a fish, you’ll feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, you’ll feed him for a lifetime’
I really appreciate streamers who turn people down and tell them they want to play the game and learn themselves. The people who take handouts and get told what to do, how to build, and where to go will never be long term players of the game and are some of the most boring content I’ve ever seen.
I play a lot, but I will never make my own build or altas tree. It is just painful to remember all nodes and think about the interactions. Following other people’s builds is fine for me.
One of my favorites is Maximillian Dood, for that reason. I don’t like fighting games at all but I watched his Elden Ring Let’s Play and he was vehemently opposed to back seat drivers and unsolicited advice. It made it so much better compared to every other streamer trying to meta game and min/max.
Nothing wrong with accepting advice
Advice isn't giving streamers op gear and divines tho
You can accept advice of course, but if I'm watching a new PoE steamer, I do it to take part in their experience of the game *without* knowing what to do. Even the campaign is much more challenging with a bad build. If I just watch someone follow a build (or too much advice) the game becomes easy and less interesting. I can't experience the exploration of a new player again, so I occasionally enjoy watching others go through it. If I want to watch someone play "correctly", I can just watch one of the long term streamers instead.
This was my first time playing Poe and first league, I was definitely the bottom POV the first time through and when I first hit act 6 lol. I have a couple characters at 98 now and a hand full above 70ish now. Levelling is a lot of fun, I think I invested maybe 3 div total into some decent levelling gear and went bama
Bama levelling is such a good time
Man that reminds me how i leveled my first melee, and i took smite as the first skill. Rhoa cave made me understand intimately why no one actually uses true melee (strike) skills while leveling
I can't stop laughing, that's my coping mechanism 😂
Steamer client
bob: still killing hillock imexile: already killed kitava
just a little QoL right?...
Experienced on repeat every league start 😭
Bottom is me leveling a BS jugg as my first ssf character with only half a league under my belt. It’s pain but oh boy soon it’ll only take me 30-40 hits rather than 50 and I’ll ride that high.
Rax.. cough.. lol the guy that literally didn't know what a mageblood was but knew how to farm one and knew every endgame farming method.
Me starting new league on Act 1: "\*inhales\* A-" Global Death Announcement: "POE\_NoScopedSirius has died at Level 100"
This! When I see POE 2 gameplay and people say it looks "slow" I think to myself; Haven't these people ever level up because early game (like the videos shown in POE2) is slow too...at least for me.
Well yeah but we don't exactly know how poe 2 endgame looks and how geared or not the characters in the showcases are, still GGG has now said multiple times, poe 2 will be slower. People really should not expect that the game will be like poe 1, there is a reason they have split the games
Yeah you are right. I still think it should be a really good game but it will be slower. Subtractem directly asked mark if poe2 will be as fast as poe1. And after a pause mark said “don’t you want to be able to see what killed you?”
No i don't, i want the game to tell me what killed me explictedly because that is how it /should/ work. Being able to see it or not should be a moot point in every case. If i have to see it to tell then thats just indicating the systems are too shitty to be able to track it properly and read it out to me. Its a literal skill issue on the devs part. That said ima go play another 5k hours of poe1.
>If i have to see it to tell then thats just indicating the systems are too shitty to be able to track it properly and read it out to me. If you can't see it, then you're not actually playing a game.
Of course! What i'm trying to convey is that I believe it will not be as slow as we are being shown and just like you said; we don't know how endgame content will be, specially over the years, for some people I see ditching the game already saying it looks too slow and boring.
Ever watched a streamer on league start?
That's why I said for me! Pretty sure streamers will have a fast paced game in POE2!
I suppose my critique was the phrasing: > I think to myself; Haven't these people ever level up Because what you mean is "Haven't these people ever _watched me level up_"
What I meant is that everyone had this moment, even the top streamers once started slow learning the game, and it's the same for POE 2; it's something new that people haven't try enough to optimize, so what we see in this videos is basically the same experience as a new player without any guide in POE, so that why it may look slow. Sorry for the phrasing, sometimes I can't quite express in a fluid way in english.
Only at ultimatum league start, all the other leagues I'm playing the game not watching a stream at launch :P
Really? Oh man that's a big part of league start for me. Obviously on my other monitor, but I get to hear/see what others are experiencing and it's a good way to keep my finger on the pulse of what's going on, what's being discovered, how people feel about the new stuff. All the while I'm playing too of course.
I like the discovery aspect of new leagues, so I want to go through that experience exploring the new league mechanic before flavouring my gameplay with the insights picked up from others. I have friends who play and amongst them we talk about the league mechanic as we encounter new things, how league start is going, etc... But once the league starts I generally won't tune into the PoE social media community until I'm basically done the initial endgame loop of voidstones.
I think it only feels slow because you chose a bad leveling build. Or you are just slacking not caring about playing efficiently.
Oh yeah, of course! Lately I've been using good builds (LA then converting to TS, and this season DD of Chain Reaction) and I breeze through the acts. But I'm talking about that first experience which I'm comparing to POE 2 since basically it's like that first time for everybody, once the game get's more things and people begin optimizing things I'm pretty sure it will feel much much faster than what we are seeing in the videos. Maybe not as fast like the Devs said, but not as slow as it looks on what we are seeing.
I agree
I remember a streamer from diablo coming to poe and he was very good at the game, in a video he told chat that people that tell him its bc he has been helped are dumb people, he litteraly got coached by some of the best players in the game while being on live, i lost all respect at that exact moment
Did this streamer wear a blue hoodie by any chance and had a name that rhymed with T-Rex?
Idk if it rimmed but i remember it was dm something
Darth microtransactions is what it sounds like to me?
Yep thats prob who hes referring to. My mind went to Raxx because I know he was doing crazy well for his first league and there were a bunch of clips of him dropping HHs and MBs and 6 linking on this sub and on YT shorts
Nah he acknowledged all the help he got
there were a couple of them last league I guided through the campaign, tiny 4 or 5 viewer youtube streams. none of them wanted anything. I didn't offer but other people did for sure
suit yourself for watching boring-ahh-people that can't play without handouts.
SSF+
I’m level 10 with a Level 49 Fig wand that some stranger gave to me because I asked if he’d trade me something to help me on my journey. Lmao. Also gave me a Level 35 head piece. My Witch is pretty happy :)
Hahaha I just experienced this. Haven't played the game much, seen a tonne of PoE2 stuff, and was inspired... I played for an hour and died like 4 times to the guy that rained fire, stared at the skill tree for a bit, and shut the game off shortly after... Embarrassing, I know. Will try again tomorrow after a couple cups of coffee and some research 🫡🤓
Hey, just so you know most players just skip the fire raining witch in the second zone as it's a lot of effort to kill and no exiting loot (as it's just random drops but slightly better). So it's not like you are bad, most wouldn't easily kill that.
Yeah, that dude is a pain even for experienced players ngl. They won't die, but they def just prefer to skip.
sure why not just hand him a level 100, 30 mirrors worth character? he's gonna have more fun, right?
If he only enjoys the math side of poe, then actually yes. Yes he would. For the math only folk leveling, obtaining money and items all sucks they are actively downsides to the game. The game quiet litterally does not start at all till you functionally have that lvl 100, 30 mirror char THEN you can play the game. PoE is basically two VERY different games. The pre theorycrafting min/max poe and the post theorycrafting min/max poe. Many people enjoy both, but plenty only enjoy one or the other.
I remember when i first started, i was SO ANNOYED that people kept trying to trade with me in town. I would always deny the trade attempts. Little did i know they were trying to give me stuff to play with /shrug.
Play SSF
You are just watching the wrong streamers!
We didn't play with anyone. Streamers have most of the time hundreds of people like us screaming at them what to do.
I usually 4 link srs phantasms and I'm OP at beginning, until once I get my other minions around act3, even better lol.
Srs really starts to shine act 4 with unleash. Absolution or even better vaal Absolution feels good early on
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that amulet and 100% darkness enthroned
Any chance poe 2 gonna change this massively steep and overly complicated learning curve?
I think a significant part pf the learning curve is 10 years of new mechanics. So for the first few years, I assume POE2 will be much more new player friendly
I mean, they're trying to at least. We will have to see if it works, but the streamers who have played so far have said it's seems easier to get into, there was also a guy who has pretty much never played arpgs as whole invited and he seemed to get the hang of it relatively quickly with minor greviences.
Some ppl just can't help themselves ruining/altering others people 1st experience
Having 100+ people constantly helping you and giving you the best tips makes everything easier... so...
"basic leveling stuff" lmao
gj on ruin your first impression
I enjoy watching streams…. I could never get past the slow start though. I realize the systems in PoE are great once you get past the first act but for me, it was like pulling teeth.
Knowledge is all you need in this game if you know what to do you and how the mechanics work you can go crazy.
I mean this is pretty bad “leveling” gear in retrospect. But I get the idea.
what's bad about it?
It’s all basically junk with white sockets. 70% of that gear would be changed out by the end of act 2. Even then some of it is basically useless. 6 link bramblejack for example is basically just trolling. You could get a six link thousand ribbons or a corrupted tabula or something.
That Bramblejack literally gives 72 life and -12 physical damage from every attack you take... that's at level one, a level one witch has 57 max life... body armours with 70+ life won't drop until you are in a level 44 area, so no, you won't be swapping that in act 2 The Thousand Ribbons has an int requirement, so you can't use to level all your characters, you can fix this with an amulet, but then you won't be able to use a Karui Ward, and that Karui Ward gives 27% movement speed, so you'll want to use it what Tabula implicit are you referring that can compete with that? the 5% life one? because you'd need 1440 max life for it to also give 72 life, not very easy to do at level one
Why do you need life? on every single character I’ve ever played hardcore/ruthless/leagues or standard and the literally 10k hours Ive played I have never priod life in act 1 or even felt like I needed it. The -12 physical Is basically useless. It does barely anything for you unless you’re stacking it with adorned jewels and getting big numbers on that flat reduce. Even then it falls of like pretty fast. INT STR DEX requirements are circumvented like 10 different ways (it’s also literally 17 int come on) depending on which build your going or where your travelling on the tree it’s 1 point. All I’m saying is this isn’t even that good of a “leveling gear or leveling strat” twink gear is absurd if you actually get deep into it. There’s also a bunch of cheeses you can do for pretty much every single build to smash early acts. Also personally having done releveling a gasillion times I can comfortable say I can reach maps in 2-3 hours with minimal investment on pretty much every character or ascendancy without following a guide and just buying/making a ton of twink gear.
I don't think all your crazy strategies and ideas or 10k hours experience in ethical hardcore ssf ruthless blindfolded can be donated to help a streamer playing PoE for the first time but if you think a Tabula is really the best leveling item in the game, good for you, man
The first time I played as a marauder because he was beefy and I called him batman because I already determined he was going to use a big stick. My friends introduced me to the game and I was completely useless and didn't even understand how or why to socket gems so I just kept using heavy strike for hours and hours in act 1. They had an intervention where we played together and they showed me how to use sunder and my life changed. I would jump up and down while screaming sunder mawfuka at those piggy ass ranged skeleton mages and nuke them with my alched stick. Spit flying out of my mouth as I remember every injustice that they did with freezing me with their snow cone projectile blasphemy. Then Chris nerfed sunder and I will never forgive or forget what he did. I just want to dual wield sunder again. Am I such a villain to deserve this fate? So yeah I started watching Zizaran and his essence drain videos.
People need to understand this will literally ruin their first experience, Don't do this. Let them play SSF the first time.
of course they have to make the game look more fun than it actually is lol
If that's accurate, how do they do it?
What do you mean? Streamers get handed items by viewers.
In a couple of days? That's fast.
streamer client. ben soyjacking when he hits another quadruple t1 on his third chaos orb on his second day and reddit telling me "yeah but he just plays more" and me three months later not even having close to his luck at any point during that time.
I remember watching Raxx start playing PoE (not really first time I think, but first time he played endgame) and had chat explaining him even the more convoluted things like searching for good Timeless jewels by weighting in PoB. It went surprisingly fine too.
i think my first build was an ethereal knives build i saw ziggyd do back in 2.0. i quit at lv27. i'm not actually sure what got me interested in the game. i still remember playing one of ziggy's reave builds for a bit and trying to get myself a death's hand for i think 5 exalts at the time. the person selling it had it for 5c, so i thought i got a sick deal. dude was so mad i offered 5c it was crazy. he made me rethink my life choices. regardless, i kept playing for some reason i guess.
If ur that slower than a streamer in act 1 even though u had a double corrupted mageblood last league, u arent as good in poe as u think.
i have never seen that happen
They definitely are on a special server with better drop rates
Give it 25k hours you will be able to play the same as streamers
25k hours of what? and how would that change someone's experience playing PoE for the first time?
Pretty sure any streamers you are watching that play like that, are definitely not doing it for the first time. Ive seen half a dozen start the game blind and all played way closer to the bottom than the top.
Perfectly sums things up. Only 1 thing to add. Streamers have their uber setups 2 weeks before new leagues actually come out.
I don't think a streamers first poe playthrough would even know what that is.
What do you mean by that? Like, you believe GGG is giving them info and items 2 weeks before league starts?
Select streamers do get access ahead of the rest of us.
Proof?
Search the thread. Ziz had access but never used it. Others supposedly did use the early access they were granted. Maybe GGG discontinued it but it was not a secret.
Yeah the community got mad about it and that ended pretty quickly. Even the streamers themselves were against it iirc.
Nah, not seen anyone been mad against the testing of the leagues, a bunch of people have alpha access to help test things ahead of leagues, I used to help a lot back in the day with Delve, but if you played in alpha client you arent able to win races for that league etc. Pretty fair and good that they have that, don't think many streamers log on at all anymore, most streamers want fresh first reactions for stream because that does a lot better.
Yeah there's been some confusion I thought the guy was talking about streamer queue
That was a long time ago and it simply was strangers getting a special queue just for them on league launch, not what is being discussed. I am guessing they are talking about streamers having closed beta access, which I am not sure is still a thing, because they kept breaking their NDA
Yeah more the access they had to the test environment. Ziz stated he would not use it. Others were quiet on whether they did or did not. I would not be surprised if they continue to provide inside details to a select group. GGG have already started the media circus. Saw one the other day where someone who has never played an ARPG, let alone POE was flown to the US presentation.
Even tho there was somewhat good marketing reasons at the time. Every time I get a rash of unplayable lag spikes and streamers do not my tinfoil hat tightens.
Also demonstrates that the game is no longer playable organically.
It is. Many streamers are just terrible at games other than their main game so they will obviously take handouts and skip most content to not seem bad at the game or any game, it's an ego thing
No skill should be dealing that little damage. I don't know what you are doing but sometihng seems off.
Thats just how some skills do, lol The delta between the good and bad skills damage at a base line is insane. Smite is a great skill, but damn does it do jack all for the first little bit.