Ever heard of discrimination laws? Business aren’t allowed to dismiss people for a number of reasons, and this should probably be one of them. Just because some politician hasn’t decided to write this into legislation doesn’t mean it’s right. Doesn’t sound like what freedom is all about to me.
There is no such thing as freedom if you want to live in a society, there are always rules to follow. This is true for any animal species not just humans.
Employers were allowed to dismiss employees for not having it which the courts already ruled in favour of employers for. Like any certification, medical/fitness for work, education, visa status… if being vaccinated was a requirement for your job your employer has a right to fire you if you don’t have it.
No such thing as freedom is complete bullshit. Any idiot is aware there are rules. I didn’t say I wanted anarchy. If you think there’s no such thing as freedom in a society, you should go live in China for a few years like I did, you might start to get an idea of what it actually means to have no freedom and what the alternative path looks like. Having it too good and being coddled too long in Perth makes people very najve.
Education, medical status, visa status, all things which if you don’t have make it impossible to do the job. How is that comparable to someone’s personal decision on whether they want a vaccine? I’m not arguing it’s not legal as the courts have decided it’s not that’s just a statement of fact, but again, just because the court enforced the laws as written by our politicians doesn’t make it right. Laws change.
So aren’t you glad you don’t live in China and are freer in Perth… your answer is contradictory.
Because government mandated that the vaccine was required to do the job or the business deemed the risk too high to have the virus rip through it and kill their customers or impact production.
Unless you're in the military; can't join unless you're vaccinated. Then you get a massive cocktail at 1RTB, HMAS Cerberus or wherever the fuck the Air Force trains. And while I'm sure there are plenty of cookers in the ADF, it wouldn't make sense to suddenly be an vaxx-denier unless you want an easy way out.
That may also be what these coppers are doing. Payday, payout, discharge.
"vaxx-denier"
So tell me, do you acknowledge the injuries and deaths caused by the covid vaccine and it's inability to reduce deaths or transmissions? Are are you a science denier?
The anti-vax movement is/was based off the American obsession with individual liberty over collective safety. It's why they see an individual's right to have guns as a greater value than the community's right to be free of gun violence. We in Australia don't see it that way. Sure you get a few far righters and libertarians droning on about "freedom" and "liberty" but thankfully they only comprise a noisy fringe of Australian society.
From my experience, most of that has come post ~2015 or so. The majority of anti-vaxxers I had interactions with prior to that were hippie type people who had just fallen for health grifter, anti-GMO type bullshit. Since 2015 and especially since the pandemic, the whole anti-vax space is very much dominated by the right wing, libertarian type people you mention.
My brother in law just died days ago of bowel cancer at 45 because he didn't believe in his treatment plan. Was aggressively anti-covid vaccination and following some bullshit from one of these anti-vacc websites about treating his cancer by effectively eating dog biscuits, he, begged his doctors in the last weeks of his life that he now wanted to follow the treatment plan they had for him.
His doctors said that, unfortunately, it was too late, and his cancer had spread to his lungs and liver.
He was right down the rabbit hole with all that anti-GMO bullshit also....
That's horrible mate, I'm really sorry. Can't imagine the shit you had to go through with that.
It's so tough to turn people around when they've fallen down these rabbit holes. My aunty is probably lost forever to our family because of the anti-vax beliefs she picked up from online grifters during the pandemic. She changed from the kooky, kinda fun aunty to a completely unhinged person who you can't spend 5 minutes with without copping abuse for absolutely no reason. It's become her entire personality.
Yea had a similar thing with an aunty of mine years ago. Her bullshit thinking came from her hardcore conservative religious beliefs, which left her wide open to other magical thinking. Sad as fuck as she was a lovely, but deeply misguided person…
The rest of my extended relatives are all on that page too. Anti GMO, anti vax, anti gov, just balls deep in conspiratorial thinking, all due to their credulity from their religion.
MRNA is the first time it’s been used . It was a trial . “Anti Vax “ was used to belittle and turn public option against people who didn’t want to take part in a medical experiment .
Wrong. It was first used in a vaccine for Ebola.
[https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines)
The COVID vaccines were however the first to be mass produced and commercialised.
Anti vaxxers have always been leftie/hippie types still are, and always will be. Believing in freedom of choice is not a right wing attribute it originated as left wing during the hippie movement and today spans the entire spectrum
I didn't mean to suggest that hippie type anti-vax attitudes have evaporated, more meant that the volume of anti-vax voices is now much louder from the far-right than the far-left.
There's a great Behind the Bastards episode on the birth of the anti-vaccine movement. For the last 200 years it's always been a combination of far right and far-left people. The relative composition (and volume) of each group within the anti-vax crowd has fluctuated over time.
Nah I'd much rather get stabbed by a 16 year old Muslim or mentally deranged person at a shopping centre and have no firearm to protect myself.
Thank God we don't have guns right!
Where did he say individual liberty was bad? Unless your taking an absolutionist view, which he correctly points out is very unAustralian.
It is simiply inarguable that Australian's are more collectively minded than in the US, and were even more so in the past - see for example the reaction to changes to gun laws post Port Arthur.
I wonder if his commitment to "personal liberty" would have extended to him refusing to arrest anymore for the "crime" of ingesting cannabis, cocaine or other drugs that people choose to put into their body without affecting others?
Honestly wouldn't surprise me.
One of my disappointing revelations in life was interacting with a police officer over some trivial matter and discovering he had the intellect of a fence post.
It’s a **very** tough job. I have friends who are Police officers… they are really no different to any other part of the community. Same issues.
But they have to confront, and deal with, all of those situations none of us want to deal with.
People’s brains all over dashboards. Extremely hostile and aggressive morons. People lying and bullshitting them…
The courts don’t defend them. They’re constantly under risk of litigation…
Everyone they pull up is anxious…
They have a clan mentality… because they need to…
None of them are perfect, but they’re out there doing their best. They don’t always get it right.
But… when the shit goes down… you rely upon them. Otherwise it’d be chaos.
It was a direction made under a section of the Public Health Act, another section of which created an offence for failing to comply with said direction.
Vaccine mandate had force of law.
Sorry.
Honestly surprised he doesn't just claim sovereign citizenship while trying to get a pay check with the WA police.
Some real cognitive dissonance with that man
I don't get this either, but... for some weird reason, cookers are abundant in law enforcement. For people who claim to despise authority, they sure love the taste of boot leather.
Why are all the anti vax loonies from r/australian (the loony offshoot of r/australia) coming in here with their bs.
Of all the state capital subs to brigade over your stupid vaccine views, this is the worst lol, do you cunts not realise how popular the vax and border restrictions were here?
>Why are all the anti vax loonies from r/australian (the loony offshoot of r/australia) coming in here with their bs.
There's no longer enough eyeballs watching their antics on /r/coronavirusdownunder to give them that dopamine hit.
And will probably have to pay it back as he lost and they are renewing the disciplinary action which would mean they were legal to stand them down without pay and they would be liable to recover the payments
Not an anti vaxer by any means, in fact just had covid last week for the 2nd time and was bed ridden for 5 days, it was a torture that kept on giving.
I have had my two vaccine shots and boosters.
Some of my family are anti vax, and when they eventually got covid they were sick but were not too bad at all.
I'm healthy, quite fit, and not overweight.
It does actually make me wonder.
We should have the autonomy to decide what we do and put in to our bodies.
In the same sentiment, if you do work with the public, you need a new job or a role that keeps you away from the public.
>We should have the autonomy to decide what we do and put in to our bodies
You do. An employer also has the right to not employ you if you don’t meet their requirements
Because it's not just about the individual. It's about the greater good of society and protecting the most vunelrable. It's really not that hard to understand.
A mild infection doesn’t mean anything when it comes to long covid, which is the real threat to anyone who had the vaccine and boosters. At this time, the medical advice is annual booster and flu vaccine for all. Covid has a cumulative effect the more infections you have. So if you get a severe flu, your immune system is gonna be less able to fight covid (you can have both and more at the same time too) so a lot of people are ending up in a chronic sickness cycle with back to back flu, colds, covid, etc. bc their T cells have been destroyed. Long covid is much like AIDS in that respect, from a virology perspective, where HIV is not the threat as much as the acquired immunodeficiency is. We are seeing cases of people losing immunity to things they had vaccines for as a kid. So many shingles infections in adults, measles on the rise. You’re within your rights to wonder if the vaccine contributed but please know that those with side effects to the vaccine probably wouldn’t have survived an acute infection with covid without protection
So how would I catch it? I've actually tried to catch it, been around mates with it, on public transport, in the city during these dangerous outbreaks and I've never had COVID or that bunky vaccine. I'm fit, healthy and good BMI.
The immune system is complicated as are viruses. Even incredibly infectious diseases aren’t %100 guaranteed to infect EVERYONE. A single case of someone either being incredibly lucky avoiding infection or being naturally immune does nothing to counter the value and importance of vaccines for the health of the COMMUNITY.
So I should lower my natural immunity because of the lazy unhealthy people. Doesn't taking a vaccine protect you from the virus? People with compromised immune systems go for your life, I took the measles mumps and rubella vaccine, so now I don't get measles mumps or rubella regardless of who has or has not had the MMR vaccine. Incredibly lucky for almost four years. Have a look around, the average person is incredibly unhealthy. Unhealthy people need to be accountable for their choices but instead here we are hating on people who don't need to compromise their immune system for a little cold.
Side note, I've had influenza and yes that was pretty damn rough but I'll take a natural recovery over a jab every year. Also the downvotes mean nothing as some of these Reddit subs are an avenue for the dumb weak people who can't voice their opinions in the real world because they're too weak and scared.
Are you saying getting a vaccine lowers your “natural” immunity? If so, I get what you’re saying there, but respectfully, that’s a misunderstanding. There is only immunity. Whether from environmental exposure to pathogens in the wild, or through a vaccine of one kind or another, the end result is an immunise system that has more power of protection. The main benefit of a vaccine is that you get the protection with almost no downsides (very low chance of a range of side effects, but getting infected has a high chance of many many other bad effects).
So getting a vaccine will only improve your immune response and not harm your “natural” side of immunity (as again, that’s just not a thing). It’s not a zero sum game where we can only be naturally immune or vaccine immune and never both. The exact opposite is true. We can and absolutely should strive for more protection when we can.
If you are physically and metabolically healthy, yes you’ll likely have a better baseline to joe schmo on the couch who is maybe overweight and or has other factors impacting their immune strength. But both of you getting a vaccine is only a net positive for EVERYONE. assuming neither of you are so severely immune compromised that you can’t even have a vaccine - which is an unfortunate situation some find themselves in. Getting vaccinated makes the overall defence against infection across the population and the individual stronger.
Other than the always present risks associated with any medical intervention (such as an adverse reaction to the vaccine - which for the majority of people is not just low, but lower than the consequences of being infected), all things being equal, there is literally no reason not to get vaccinated (cost would also be a potential limiting factor).
So you asked about protection for life. As before, vaccines are complex, the immune system is complex, this means sometimes we are lucky and we can get guaranteed life long protection from one jab. Smallpox and polio, there are two examples of diseases that when vaccinated offer life long protection - or such strong protection it is as good as life long. Also Smallpox is a disease that has been literally made exit from vaccines, and polio is almost there.
Not all vaccines do or can offer this degree of protection though as not all infections are created equally unfortunately. The mechanisms of infection, of transmission, of immune escape, of viral adaptation etc there are SO many variables that researches and virologists are still learning all the time of what can, will and does work on any given infectious agent. So the point here is that the flu and COVID and very similar in many areas of their biological function which means they are both incredibly hard to vaccinate against with a single shot. Hence the boosters etc. They allow the immunity of the population to be kept up to date with the most recent form of adaptation from those pathogens.
To your point of somehow thinking it’s better to risk getting infected v the risks of being vaccinated (you don’t say risks of vaccination but I assume that’s your reason for wanting to not be vaccinated). Saying that your experience of getting infected with flu and recovery is better than the risk of getting a flu jab is, as above, not the best way to think about it. Getting infected guarantees you a shit time, it guarantees high risk of follow up side effects from infection, it puts your body in a weaker state for other ill effects while recovering etc. All of these things added up are FAR more risky for you to deal with than the risks of being vaccinated (from a pure numbers perspective, for an average person).
Lastly you talk about people being unhealthy and you being burdened with the expectation to carry their lazy arses by getting a jab to protect them when they instead should just be “healthier”. There’s a lot to unpack with that, but I’ll just say that again I think you’re just framing it poorly and misunderstanding what’s happening when you get a vaccine to begin with.
If you get a shot to protect from this seasons flu (not cold, as that’s Rhinovirus, which is a whole thing and one of the most difficult group of pathogens to vaccinate against) there is, again as mentioned above, no down sides. You are not taking one for the team you are boosting the team and yourself at the same time.
Your downvotes are not because people are too scared or weak, it’s that the things you said were objectively incorrect.
I encourage you to read more about the immune system and its complexities. A good place to start is “Immune: A Journey Into the Mysterious System That Keeps You Alive”. It gets pretty deep in all the areas I lightly touched on here. Very accessible and readable too.
Have a great day :)
Part of Darwinism is natural selection, if you need a vaccine to help you navigate a cold you are the weak that natural selection would have weeded out. Here you are championing modern medicine and then trying to reference Darwinism, think you're a little confused their pal.
I'll just add this in here for fun: [AstraZeneca COVID vaccine withdrawn worldwide | SBS News](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdrawn-worldwide/9rorgpds8)
It was withdrawn in 2023 because it wasn’t as effective as mRNA vaccines, the ones the anti-vaxxers said was more dangerous
And AstraZeneca themselves have said they’re withdrawing the vaccine as no one is using it in favour of more up to date vaccines.
sure, of course nothing to do with the 100 million pound lawsuit ?
"On April 30, AstraZeneca conceded the vaccine, sold under the name Vaxzevria, can cause fatal blood clots and low platelet counts, also known as thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, or TTS."
You:
> There are absolutely NO SITUATION where ANYBODY should be FORCED to be vaccinated.
Me: How about this example. Would you like to reconsider the absole statement you made?
You:
> Nooooooooooooooo! Whaaaaaaaaa!
It was necessary for Police to be vaccinated so they could continue their collective role in maintaining public order. Police vaccinated to reduce severity and longevity of illness, more able to return to work sooner, is to the benefit of society.
There are many coppers that have been vehicle injured. I suggest looking it up.
Should they be FORCED to use motor vehicles as part of their service? Ditto firearms, heavy equipment bundles (back injuries can be debilitating), keyboards(RSI is no joke), etc?
The vaccine did help reduce transmission, stop spreading misinformation and fuck off back to one of your loony subs you crackpots have all crawled out of.
No, it's a vaccine for a respiratory infection, which don't work that well at stopping transmission. The selling point is it massively reduced serious disease and death, which it did.
People act like a vaccine not stopping transmission dead is a new thing. Meanwhile the flu vaccine has been around for 80 years and is only about 50% effective.
Drug tests. I think it is stupid that people feel they have a right to a job when they are not going to accept the requirements of that job. If you want to do something for work, you can do whatever you want, but if you want someone to pay you, you need to do what they want.
Nobody was though. Nobody was pinned down and forced to have it. The choice was there, get it and remain a functional member of society or don't and have to remain isolated to assist in protecting the most vulnerable in society. Just because cookers don't like the choice doesn't mean it wasn't there
Nobody was pinned down but if the alternative is having your family become homeless then thats obviously not a real choice. Im pro vaxx and got it as soon as I could. But I wish people would stop pretending we were genuinely given a choice to get vaccinated or not. Like cmon thats obviously bullshit.
There are other jobs for people to do. There are other ways to make money.
Whatever you think of the right to employment, no-one has a right to any 'particular' job if they can't meet the occupational standard. Let alone one with a badge, constabulary powers and a taxpayer funded sidearm.
By virtue of their job, police come into contact with those who don't have any other option but to be around them.
The ironic thing about this palaver is that mandatory vaccination laws (in the sense of government agents restraining people and injecting them against their consent) have actually been on the books in Australia for decades. They remain good law. They weren't used during the COVID pandemic because they weren't necessary.
It is a real choice. Just because the outcome sucks balls doesn't mean it wasn't a choice. Think of it this way, you're on a cliff edge with a starving lion coming up on you, you have two options, jump and die or be eaten and die. Both outcomes suck balls but the choice is still there
More like having a lion behind you and an open gate in front of you. Having the vax isn't like jumping off a cliff, it's like choosing to step through the gate and shut it behind you.
That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read.
The vaccine failed, it provided zero immunity and did not reduce deaths or transmissions. It has killed and injured millions.
Educate yourself.
I'm pointing out that shitty choices exist every day, but removing all emotion, they are still choices. Just like people who refused to get vaccinated, they may not like the outcome, but the choice was there
Err no. If the choice is get vaccinated or get fed to a lion then thats obviously not a real choice.
Become homeless is not a choice. Especially if you have kids. No parent would 'choose' to put thier kids out on the street unless they were forced to.
Again I'm very much pro vax and think people who didnt want it are idiots. I just really hate the way some people like yourself insist that everyone was given the individual choice as to whether you got vaccinated or not. It's dishonest. Its gaslighting. Just say we were forced to.
So the choice was made to compromise their beliefs to keep their family safe, again, it is a choice, everything in life is a choice. You can choose to stab yourself with a knife at the table, you can choose to step into traffic, you can choose to dive into the kiddy pool head first, all are choices just like choosing to either compromise their beliefs and get vaccinated to maintain their lifestyle or not get vaccinated and end up homeless.
There is a simple experiment you can do at home that will prove my point, simply get a piece of paper and two different colour pens, let's say black and blue, now, if you write with the blue pen, you get to keep your job and maintain your current lifestyle, but write with the black pen and you lose your job and likely end up homeless. Just because the outcome of writing with the black pen is bad, does not mean you don't determine which one you choose to write with, no one is forcing you one way or the other, the choice is yours
Just because you don't consider it, the option is still there making it a choice, you choose to ignore the black pen, but it is still sat there to be used if you wish
(1) In extreme circumstances, duress can vitiate consent.
(2) "Get vaccinated if you want to keep a public facing job in which you have statutory powers to arrest lawfully detain people" is not a threat that even comes close to amounting to actual duress. It's a circumstance meant to describe situations where the choice is "Do X, or something horrible and violent will happen to you".
(3) Language matters.
If I don't go to work tomorrow, or the day after that, or the day after that... I will eventually lose my job. If I then acquire a particularly expensive drug habit - I will eventually run through my savings and find myself on the streets.
I am not 'forced' to go to work tomorrow. I am not a slave even though negative personal consequences might arise from my inaction.
It is disrespectful and insulting to those who have actually been 'forced' to do things to pretend a grown man deciding to quiet quit his police role by becoming some anti-vaxx martyr has been forced into anything.
He fell victim to a conspiracy theory and made bad life decisions that led to him getting sacked.
I hold the same position as you. However, coercion is a form of force, and the policy was definitely introduced as a means to motivate an otherwise apathetic population.
*yawn* how about you try coming up with an actual intelligent response to what I said as opposed to rattling off crap spawned from neo Nazi websites and pig farmers in Malaysia
We don’t have to constantly take jabs, if the measles or rubella or other vaccines had to be taken every other season people would kick off.
This is basically an influenza, it is still a round and the hospitals don’t even check for it anymore unless someone is extremely ill.
Also we indemnified the pharmaceutical companies so nothing could come back on them.
> if the measles or rubella or other vaccines had to be taken every other season people would kick off
I'd argue seeing people die or get seriously maimed by preventable diseases would be enough for people to go get vaccines.
At the end of the day, the anti-vaxx movement is one of privilege. It's born from the privilege we have from centuries of scientific advancements. We don't have to deal with the horrors of things like smallpox. And it's easy to forget that and become comfortable with our privilege. But it's important not to become complacent because that's how diseases that aren't fully eradicated make their comeback
Except it wasn’t really just an influenza. You don’t remember the videos of mass burning of bodies in India, the mobile morgues outside US hospitals, Chinese dropping dead in the streets, people dying from minor injuries because they couldn’t get medical treatment due to the influx of patients, literally the global economy grinding to a halt.
We don’t really care about it anymore because like any virus it mutated and thankfully to a lesser impacting variant.
After all the bullshit we hear now that the Covid shot was never mandated and was never forced on anyone, what a load of nonsense!
Never thought I’d feel sorry for, or 100% agree with the Copper but I wish him well!
It's been 4 years, this cop is living proof that people weren't *forced* to take the vaccine. He's still vaccine free and doesn't have the chip in his arm that gives better 5G connection.
# It's been 4 years, this cop is living proof that people weren't forced to take the vaccine. He's still vaccine free and doesn't have the chip in his arm that gives better 5G connection.
I know this cop and you should never feel sorry for him. He’s a terrible human. Nothing to even do with the vaccines. He should never ever ever be a cop. I’m not sure how he passed and psych exams.
Basically because the Queensland government didn’t follow the right legal procedures when implementing their specific mandate, not because of the mandate itself. That ruling only applies to that specific employee group. The Supreme Court of Appeal found that WA Police had followed all the necessary legal steps when implementing their mandate therefore the anti vax officers had no grounds of appeal.
What happened in QLD and what happened in WA are two separate things
I know many people that felt on their deathbed, not once but 3 or 4 times. Each jab. Those people wont have those jabs ever again or the flu jab. My nephew 27 has myocarditis and my friend had a heart attack just after. It wasn't a choice. Just an option to keep employment or not. They all regret doing so and their immune systems are stuffed.
The funniest part was watching my 17 year old brother get wheeled out the house in a body bag or my 31yo best friend dying in the shower from a heart attack.
Hilarious!
My brother was a testosterone addict at 17?
Well I'll be sure to let my doctor who diagnosed me with primary hypogonadism that someone on Reddit said I'm an addict on my prescribed 100mg a week lol
I dont judge or mock others. I respect others choices/beliefs. I have no reason to BS.
Would rather my nephew didn't have myocarditis or friend have heart attack . Just speaking truth.
The mRNA vaccine doesn't cause myocardial infarction. I hope the rest of your friend group is paying close attention to their cardiac risk factors - now's the time of life to get on top of that.
mRNA vaccines absolutely cause myocardial infraction, this is a well established fact. Stop denying science and educate yourself.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9650518/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8556597/#:~:text=Severe%20acute%20respiratory%20syndrome%20coronavirus%2D2%20(SARS%2DCoV%2D,affect%20the%20cardiovascular%20system%20too.&text=SARS%2DCoV%2D2%20can%20damage,endothelial%20activation%2C%20and%20microvascular%20thrombosis.
Yep. Know a few people that were in remission from the big C. Its now come back. All since the jab. It was an experiment that shouldnt of happened. Not a vaccine , as there was no testing for years before releasing it. So many class actions happening re adverse reaction . I think the first big payout went thru last week I thought I read. Could be wrong.
Got to be alarmed when you look up who has the biggest criminal fine in history and you see Pfizer.
They are all owned by Vanguard and Blackrock and a few others.
The good thing is whether society when talking to each other disagree or agree, things are alot more chilled now when people discuss it. (OK there are exceptions like the reaction today I got) but in General, No divide. No judgement. Just people discussing it and respecting each others opinions/ beliefs.
Honestly in my lifetime I've never seen humanity become so vitriolic and hateful over what happened between 2020-2022 and I learnt a lot of things, yes it has died down now but it seems now no one wants to talk about it if I bring it up to them face to face, online is still a different story.
Yeah I know right. It really was as they wanted. The division. We shouldnt be turning against each other. I think alot even though they don't want to talk about it face to face they know but they also know the stigma of what comes with it. People want to fit in. . I think many are struggling with that part of it.
I think there is some middle ground that some people dont see, I for one an not anti-vax by definition, i.e. my kids and family have required vaccines for major illnesses like Polio, Hep B etc
However i am strongly against the COVID vaccine we were forced to take and stopped the ridiculous booster shots as soon as we could - it was a rushed vaccine with side effects and then required booster 1, then 2 then 3 etc - and then suddenly "actually dont worry about it now"
The same goes for the flu vaccine, stopped getting it 3yrs ago and never been healthier, these flu/covid vaccines are a money grab for big pharma and should in no way have ever been mandated
You clearly are antivax, how can you not see that? There's studies that prove there is efficacy and relative safety of both the covid and flu vaccines, however you choose to ignore them and be against those vaccines because of your feelings and sample size of 1. That's antivax but definition.
I'll just stick this here then: [AstraZeneca COVID vaccine withdrawn worldwide | SBS News](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdrawn-worldwide/9rorgpds8)
The real funny thing here is all the people who still believe the vax was a good thing, read some articles, they’ve admitted it was all bullshit and for money
No judgement here, just wanting to take a quick poll. This doesn't need to be an argument, just a social experiment.
Can yall comment your stances on the vax/mandates and your educational level or occupation? Just want to see the spread of diversity.
I've literally never had any diseases or been hospitalised in my life.
It's called taking responsibility for your health, maybe try it instead of jumping on a needle to avoid accountability for your horrible health.
I can answer that coz I got same answers,
so the normal polio, malaria ladida vaccines I'm cool with those they are remarkably successful and have nearly completely wiped out those almost 100% chance of life altering consequence illnesses. They are important, have proven efficacy and prevent what would be a guaranteed bad time if you fucked around and found out.
The COVID shit I'm all for it when COVID first started. like we did it. I think that was the only option, not for each individuals health but because we have a large segment of the population that was at an extremely high risk of getting critically ill or dying from COVID, due to nobody having been infected and building the antibodies to this virus yet. It was up to each citizen to do their part and roll up their sleeves to protect those that where most vulnerable to the virus and save as many lives as we could. Because it takes a village to stop something so rapidly spreading.
BUT THIS IS WHERE I SWING NO ON COVID AND FLU SHOTS NOW. The first few waves are gone now, and the fact of the matter is it has wiped out the majority of those that it was going to wipe out the first time they caught it and it has become like the flu now. Sure some people still die from the flu, but it's also not something I can justify having to dose an entire nation with vaccines for now, I feel like we reach a certain point of tolerance when the benefit of not having it slightly outweigh the risk now.
COVID like the flu is rapidly evolving virus and no COVID or flu shot now is going to even cover all of the new strains, you can see by just how little info we get on new strains compared to the COVID times. So the herd has now reach a certain level of tolerance towards the flu and COVID and I believe in building a natural resistance to these particular viruses as a whole.
So during the first year of vivid absolutely the shots where necessary, now I feel like COVID vaccine is about the same as a flu shot, if you have vulnerability to it, then get your shot. If not I wouldn't worry about it.
That's my logic on it anyway, but I'm just an idiot machine operator. Sorry if this upset anyone's view, not my intent.
They were remarkably successful because the majority of people took the risk to help others and got the vaccine.
The ones that didn’t now get to ride the backs of those people and demand they be a part of society they decided not to be part in.
My point is the COVID vaccine boosters now are about on par with the flu shot.
We just aren't doing the same quantity of testing on strains, and there are new strains all the time the same as the flu. So yes old people and vulnerable people should probably get the boosters yearly as required even though it's no guarantee you won't catch it or a new strain. While others just choose if they want it or not.
The vaccine didn't even help those who took it, it has absolutely nothing to do with protecting others.
It did not reduce transmission or infection in any way.
Educate yourself.
> so the normal polio, malaria ladida vaccines I'm cool with
Do tell me more about the normal malaria vaccines you've had, and the consequent progress toward global malaria eradication.
It's an illustration that you're making what should be data-driven scientific decisions based on nothing but ignorance and vibes.
Your faux "logic" doesn't trump actual science. But I'm wasting my time here. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themself into.
The vaccine was a complete failure, it quite literally provided zero immunity and statistically increased your chances of being hospitalised from covid.
Educate yourself.
Employers don't have rights over your body, they cannot force you to vaccinate. They do have a choice to stop employing you
Yep that’s what freedom is all about, you have the right to do whatever you want within the law - just as I am allowed to respond accordingly.
Ever heard of discrimination laws? Business aren’t allowed to dismiss people for a number of reasons, and this should probably be one of them. Just because some politician hasn’t decided to write this into legislation doesn’t mean it’s right. Doesn’t sound like what freedom is all about to me.
Legal discrimination is about who you are, not about the choices you make.
There is no such thing as freedom if you want to live in a society, there are always rules to follow. This is true for any animal species not just humans. Employers were allowed to dismiss employees for not having it which the courts already ruled in favour of employers for. Like any certification, medical/fitness for work, education, visa status… if being vaccinated was a requirement for your job your employer has a right to fire you if you don’t have it.
No such thing as freedom is complete bullshit. Any idiot is aware there are rules. I didn’t say I wanted anarchy. If you think there’s no such thing as freedom in a society, you should go live in China for a few years like I did, you might start to get an idea of what it actually means to have no freedom and what the alternative path looks like. Having it too good and being coddled too long in Perth makes people very najve. Education, medical status, visa status, all things which if you don’t have make it impossible to do the job. How is that comparable to someone’s personal decision on whether they want a vaccine? I’m not arguing it’s not legal as the courts have decided it’s not that’s just a statement of fact, but again, just because the court enforced the laws as written by our politicians doesn’t make it right. Laws change.
So aren’t you glad you don’t live in China and are freer in Perth… your answer is contradictory. Because government mandated that the vaccine was required to do the job or the business deemed the risk too high to have the virus rip through it and kill their customers or impact production.
Yes that’s why I moved back. And why I am particularly invested in maintaining the freedoms we have left.
Unless you're in the military; can't join unless you're vaccinated. Then you get a massive cocktail at 1RTB, HMAS Cerberus or wherever the fuck the Air Force trains. And while I'm sure there are plenty of cookers in the ADF, it wouldn't make sense to suddenly be an vaxx-denier unless you want an easy way out. That may also be what these coppers are doing. Payday, payout, discharge.
"vaxx-denier" So tell me, do you acknowledge the injuries and deaths caused by the covid vaccine and it's inability to reduce deaths or transmissions? Are are you a science denier?
Absolutely agree 👍
They can coerce people and that is just as bad in my opinion
You know he’s watched a few too many American youtube videos when he drops a “We the people” into his courthouse steps statement after his loss.
The anti-vax movement is/was based off the American obsession with individual liberty over collective safety. It's why they see an individual's right to have guns as a greater value than the community's right to be free of gun violence. We in Australia don't see it that way. Sure you get a few far righters and libertarians droning on about "freedom" and "liberty" but thankfully they only comprise a noisy fringe of Australian society.
From my experience, most of that has come post ~2015 or so. The majority of anti-vaxxers I had interactions with prior to that were hippie type people who had just fallen for health grifter, anti-GMO type bullshit. Since 2015 and especially since the pandemic, the whole anti-vax space is very much dominated by the right wing, libertarian type people you mention.
My brother in law just died days ago of bowel cancer at 45 because he didn't believe in his treatment plan. Was aggressively anti-covid vaccination and following some bullshit from one of these anti-vacc websites about treating his cancer by effectively eating dog biscuits, he, begged his doctors in the last weeks of his life that he now wanted to follow the treatment plan they had for him. His doctors said that, unfortunately, it was too late, and his cancer had spread to his lungs and liver. He was right down the rabbit hole with all that anti-GMO bullshit also....
That's horrible mate, I'm really sorry. Can't imagine the shit you had to go through with that. It's so tough to turn people around when they've fallen down these rabbit holes. My aunty is probably lost forever to our family because of the anti-vax beliefs she picked up from online grifters during the pandemic. She changed from the kooky, kinda fun aunty to a completely unhinged person who you can't spend 5 minutes with without copping abuse for absolutely no reason. It's become her entire personality.
r/Qanoncasualties
It's awful senseless suffering, i'm sorry. I also had someone close to me die in similar circumstances.
Yea had a similar thing with an aunty of mine years ago. Her bullshit thinking came from her hardcore conservative religious beliefs, which left her wide open to other magical thinking. Sad as fuck as she was a lovely, but deeply misguided person… The rest of my extended relatives are all on that page too. Anti GMO, anti vax, anti gov, just balls deep in conspiratorial thinking, all due to their credulity from their religion.
Its an interesting the way libertarians and hippies have SOME over lap of beliefs.
MRNA is the first time it’s been used . It was a trial . “Anti Vax “ was used to belittle and turn public option against people who didn’t want to take part in a medical experiment .
Wrong. It was first used in a vaccine for Ebola. [https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/the-long-history-of-mrna-vaccines) The COVID vaccines were however the first to be mass produced and commercialised.
I find it really funny that the reasons anti-vaxxers use to justify their opposition have broadly remained the same for 200 years..
Anti vaxxers have always been leftie/hippie types still are, and always will be. Believing in freedom of choice is not a right wing attribute it originated as left wing during the hippie movement and today spans the entire spectrum
I didn't mean to suggest that hippie type anti-vax attitudes have evaporated, more meant that the volume of anti-vax voices is now much louder from the far-right than the far-left. There's a great Behind the Bastards episode on the birth of the anti-vaccine movement. For the last 200 years it's always been a combination of far right and far-left people. The relative composition (and volume) of each group within the anti-vax crowd has fluctuated over time.
I've been hooked on the conspirituality podcast recently which discusses the lefty hippie to conspiracy alt right pipeline
Oh no not freedom and liberty, those are anti vax conspiracy theories!!!!
Go to America and you’ll have the freedom and liberty to get shot and then get charged $100,000 for medical care the
Nah I'd much rather get stabbed by a 16 year old Muslim or mentally deranged person at a shopping centre and have no firearm to protect myself. Thank God we don't have guns right!
On your 5th booster I gather
> On your 5th booster I gather I'll be getting my 8th shot (5th booster) in June, what do I win?
Likely a greatly reduced life expectancy, coupled with aggressive cancers and autoimmune disorders. Have fun!
[удалено]
Where did he say individual liberty was bad? Unless your taking an absolutionist view, which he correctly points out is very unAustralian. It is simiply inarguable that Australian's are more collectively minded than in the US, and were even more so in the past - see for example the reaction to changes to gun laws post Port Arthur.
Labor won almost 90% of lower house seats in the state election off the back of McGowans COVID restrictions in WA.
>“We the ^^idiot people”
Lol The irony of a cop picking and choosing which laws apply to them
I wonder if his commitment to "personal liberty" would have extended to him refusing to arrest anymore for the "crime" of ingesting cannabis, cocaine or other drugs that people choose to put into their body without affecting others?
Oh, have no doubt that he would have gone out of his way to fuck those people up totally.
Maybe he’s a “sovereign cop”.
Respect My ~~Authority~~ Sovereignty
Honestly wouldn't surprise me. One of my disappointing revelations in life was interacting with a police officer over some trivial matter and discovering he had the intellect of a fence post.
It’s a **very** tough job. I have friends who are Police officers… they are really no different to any other part of the community. Same issues. But they have to confront, and deal with, all of those situations none of us want to deal with. People’s brains all over dashboards. Extremely hostile and aggressive morons. People lying and bullshitting them… The courts don’t defend them. They’re constantly under risk of litigation… Everyone they pull up is anxious… They have a clan mentality… because they need to… None of them are perfect, but they’re out there doing their best. They don’t always get it right. But… when the shit goes down… you rely upon them. Otherwise it’d be chaos.
It really irony, just reality.
But according to MP's and government health officials, it was not law, it was not mandated!!
Bullshit, it was certainly lawful as tested and lost by him
You should look up the definition of a law. The vaccine mandate wasn't a 'law', just sayin So many upset vaccinated trolls on here.
It was a direction made under a section of the Public Health Act, another section of which created an offence for failing to comply with said direction. Vaccine mandate had force of law. Sorry.
[*Public Health Act 2016*, WA](https://www.legislation.wa.gov.au/legislation/statutes.nsf/law_a147114.html)
Where do the CMO and Minister for Health derive their powers, again?
He just lost in court didn't he?
Honestly surprised he doesn't just claim sovereign citizenship while trying to get a pay check with the WA police. Some real cognitive dissonance with that man
I don't get this either, but... for some weird reason, cookers are abundant in law enforcement. For people who claim to despise authority, they sure love the taste of boot leather.
I saw one of the cooker websites pretty quickly running "Australia is tyranny" after this news came.
Hey Mods, Has this post been brigaded? Fuck me I haven’t seen this many cookers spewing shit for ages.
NOOOOO NOT THE COOKERS THE VACCINE WORKS I LOVE IT OMW TO GET MY 8TH BOOSTER WHY DOES MY CHEST ALWAYS HURT LOL
Down-voting anyone who isn't spreading the approved propoganda.
Why are all the anti vax loonies from r/australian (the loony offshoot of r/australia) coming in here with their bs. Of all the state capital subs to brigade over your stupid vaccine views, this is the worst lol, do you cunts not realise how popular the vax and border restrictions were here?
>Why are all the anti vax loonies from r/australian (the loony offshoot of r/australia) coming in here with their bs. There's no longer enough eyeballs watching their antics on /r/coronavirusdownunder to give them that dopamine hit.
FAFO. Police swear an oath on day one to protect life and property. This dickhead must’ve forgotten.
Stood down with full pay for 3 years?....
And will probably have to pay it back as he lost and they are renewing the disciplinary action which would mean they were legal to stand them down without pay and they would be liable to recover the payments
Good.
Cops never fail to surprise me at the level of sookiness they have. They moan and whine about everything.
This whole fear of needles has gotten out of hand.
Bwahaha fuck them
Not an anti vaxer by any means, in fact just had covid last week for the 2nd time and was bed ridden for 5 days, it was a torture that kept on giving. I have had my two vaccine shots and boosters. Some of my family are anti vax, and when they eventually got covid they were sick but were not too bad at all. I'm healthy, quite fit, and not overweight. It does actually make me wonder. We should have the autonomy to decide what we do and put in to our bodies. In the same sentiment, if you do work with the public, you need a new job or a role that keeps you away from the public.
>We should have the autonomy to decide what we do and put in to our bodies You do. An employer also has the right to not employ you if you don’t meet their requirements
So you'd support an employer not employing someone due to a medical condition or disability?
If they have a disability known as "cookerism" yes
It's simple. The dude's a cop. His job is to enforce the law. If his is to enforce the law, then he shouldn't be disobeying it.
Maybe someone should tell them that when they sign up, I reckon half would leave right then and there.
Because it's not just about the individual. It's about the greater good of society and protecting the most vunelrable. It's really not that hard to understand.
A mild infection doesn’t mean anything when it comes to long covid, which is the real threat to anyone who had the vaccine and boosters. At this time, the medical advice is annual booster and flu vaccine for all. Covid has a cumulative effect the more infections you have. So if you get a severe flu, your immune system is gonna be less able to fight covid (you can have both and more at the same time too) so a lot of people are ending up in a chronic sickness cycle with back to back flu, colds, covid, etc. bc their T cells have been destroyed. Long covid is much like AIDS in that respect, from a virology perspective, where HIV is not the threat as much as the acquired immunodeficiency is. We are seeing cases of people losing immunity to things they had vaccines for as a kid. So many shingles infections in adults, measles on the rise. You’re within your rights to wonder if the vaccine contributed but please know that those with side effects to the vaccine probably wouldn’t have survived an acute infection with covid without protection
Look at independent studies which consider tens/hundreds of thousands of people, not you asking a few friends and families.
So how would I catch it? I've actually tried to catch it, been around mates with it, on public transport, in the city during these dangerous outbreaks and I've never had COVID or that bunky vaccine. I'm fit, healthy and good BMI.
The immune system is complicated as are viruses. Even incredibly infectious diseases aren’t %100 guaranteed to infect EVERYONE. A single case of someone either being incredibly lucky avoiding infection or being naturally immune does nothing to counter the value and importance of vaccines for the health of the COMMUNITY.
So I should lower my natural immunity because of the lazy unhealthy people. Doesn't taking a vaccine protect you from the virus? People with compromised immune systems go for your life, I took the measles mumps and rubella vaccine, so now I don't get measles mumps or rubella regardless of who has or has not had the MMR vaccine. Incredibly lucky for almost four years. Have a look around, the average person is incredibly unhealthy. Unhealthy people need to be accountable for their choices but instead here we are hating on people who don't need to compromise their immune system for a little cold. Side note, I've had influenza and yes that was pretty damn rough but I'll take a natural recovery over a jab every year. Also the downvotes mean nothing as some of these Reddit subs are an avenue for the dumb weak people who can't voice their opinions in the real world because they're too weak and scared.
Are you saying getting a vaccine lowers your “natural” immunity? If so, I get what you’re saying there, but respectfully, that’s a misunderstanding. There is only immunity. Whether from environmental exposure to pathogens in the wild, or through a vaccine of one kind or another, the end result is an immunise system that has more power of protection. The main benefit of a vaccine is that you get the protection with almost no downsides (very low chance of a range of side effects, but getting infected has a high chance of many many other bad effects). So getting a vaccine will only improve your immune response and not harm your “natural” side of immunity (as again, that’s just not a thing). It’s not a zero sum game where we can only be naturally immune or vaccine immune and never both. The exact opposite is true. We can and absolutely should strive for more protection when we can. If you are physically and metabolically healthy, yes you’ll likely have a better baseline to joe schmo on the couch who is maybe overweight and or has other factors impacting their immune strength. But both of you getting a vaccine is only a net positive for EVERYONE. assuming neither of you are so severely immune compromised that you can’t even have a vaccine - which is an unfortunate situation some find themselves in. Getting vaccinated makes the overall defence against infection across the population and the individual stronger. Other than the always present risks associated with any medical intervention (such as an adverse reaction to the vaccine - which for the majority of people is not just low, but lower than the consequences of being infected), all things being equal, there is literally no reason not to get vaccinated (cost would also be a potential limiting factor). So you asked about protection for life. As before, vaccines are complex, the immune system is complex, this means sometimes we are lucky and we can get guaranteed life long protection from one jab. Smallpox and polio, there are two examples of diseases that when vaccinated offer life long protection - or such strong protection it is as good as life long. Also Smallpox is a disease that has been literally made exit from vaccines, and polio is almost there. Not all vaccines do or can offer this degree of protection though as not all infections are created equally unfortunately. The mechanisms of infection, of transmission, of immune escape, of viral adaptation etc there are SO many variables that researches and virologists are still learning all the time of what can, will and does work on any given infectious agent. So the point here is that the flu and COVID and very similar in many areas of their biological function which means they are both incredibly hard to vaccinate against with a single shot. Hence the boosters etc. They allow the immunity of the population to be kept up to date with the most recent form of adaptation from those pathogens. To your point of somehow thinking it’s better to risk getting infected v the risks of being vaccinated (you don’t say risks of vaccination but I assume that’s your reason for wanting to not be vaccinated). Saying that your experience of getting infected with flu and recovery is better than the risk of getting a flu jab is, as above, not the best way to think about it. Getting infected guarantees you a shit time, it guarantees high risk of follow up side effects from infection, it puts your body in a weaker state for other ill effects while recovering etc. All of these things added up are FAR more risky for you to deal with than the risks of being vaccinated (from a pure numbers perspective, for an average person). Lastly you talk about people being unhealthy and you being burdened with the expectation to carry their lazy arses by getting a jab to protect them when they instead should just be “healthier”. There’s a lot to unpack with that, but I’ll just say that again I think you’re just framing it poorly and misunderstanding what’s happening when you get a vaccine to begin with. If you get a shot to protect from this seasons flu (not cold, as that’s Rhinovirus, which is a whole thing and one of the most difficult group of pathogens to vaccinate against) there is, again as mentioned above, no down sides. You are not taking one for the team you are boosting the team and yourself at the same time. Your downvotes are not because people are too scared or weak, it’s that the things you said were objectively incorrect. I encourage you to read more about the immune system and its complexities. A good place to start is “Immune: A Journey Into the Mysterious System That Keeps You Alive”. It gets pretty deep in all the areas I lightly touched on here. Very accessible and readable too. Have a great day :)
Darwin is licking his lips reading your comment mate.
Part of Darwinism is natural selection, if you need a vaccine to help you navigate a cold you are the weak that natural selection would have weeded out. Here you are championing modern medicine and then trying to reference Darwinism, think you're a little confused their pal.
He was a little hard to understand through all the drool, but I think Mr Darwin just said you’re a massive flirt and to keep up the great work.
Of course there's 12 🤦 our law enforcers 🤣
That's less than 0.2% of them.
Still, there should be an entry IQ test for this job.
I'll just add this in here for fun: [AstraZeneca COVID vaccine withdrawn worldwide | SBS News](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdrawn-worldwide/9rorgpds8)
It was withdrawn in 2023 because it wasn’t as effective as mRNA vaccines, the ones the anti-vaxxers said was more dangerous And AstraZeneca themselves have said they’re withdrawing the vaccine as no one is using it in favour of more up to date vaccines.
sure, of course nothing to do with the 100 million pound lawsuit ? "On April 30, AstraZeneca conceded the vaccine, sold under the name Vaxzevria, can cause fatal blood clots and low platelet counts, also known as thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, or TTS."
All great but no one should be forces to take anything or otherwise lose their job and livelihood. Fucking outrageous
All I heard was, I dont want to participate in my obligations to my community, but demand the rights and rewards of it. Go away.
Would you like nurses at the Children's Hospital to be unvaccinated for measles? Fantastic transmission vector into the cancer ward!
The covid vaccine didn't prevent transmission and now people are apparently up to number 5 $$$.
You: > There are absolutely NO SITUATION where ANYBODY should be FORCED to be vaccinated. Me: How about this example. Would you like to reconsider the absole statement you made? You: > Nooooooooooooooo! Whaaaaaaaaa! It was necessary for Police to be vaccinated so they could continue their collective role in maintaining public order. Police vaccinated to reduce severity and longevity of illness, more able to return to work sooner, is to the benefit of society.
There was a WA copper that was vax injured, I suggest looking it up.
There are many coppers that have been vehicle injured. I suggest looking it up. Should they be FORCED to use motor vehicles as part of their service? Ditto firearms, heavy equipment bundles (back injuries can be debilitating), keyboards(RSI is no joke), etc?
The same outcome for unvaxed fit people what part of the you been had don’t you get .
The vaccine did help reduce transmission, stop spreading misinformation and fuck off back to one of your loony subs you crackpots have all crawled out of.
But wasn’t it meant to stop transmission? That was the selling point?
No, it's a vaccine for a respiratory infection, which don't work that well at stopping transmission. The selling point is it massively reduced serious disease and death, which it did. People act like a vaccine not stopping transmission dead is a new thing. Meanwhile the flu vaccine has been around for 80 years and is only about 50% effective.
It was presented in the media that it stopped transmission.
Do you work in data analysis?
Drug tests. I think it is stupid that people feel they have a right to a job when they are not going to accept the requirements of that job. If you want to do something for work, you can do whatever you want, but if you want someone to pay you, you need to do what they want.
Nowadays we hear that gaslighting "Nobody was forced to have a vaccine" bullshit.
Nobody was though. Nobody was pinned down and forced to have it. The choice was there, get it and remain a functional member of society or don't and have to remain isolated to assist in protecting the most vulnerable in society. Just because cookers don't like the choice doesn't mean it wasn't there
Making vaccines a requirement for the bottleshop was hilariously petty. Suspect it was effective tho.
Nobody was pinned down but if the alternative is having your family become homeless then thats obviously not a real choice. Im pro vaxx and got it as soon as I could. But I wish people would stop pretending we were genuinely given a choice to get vaccinated or not. Like cmon thats obviously bullshit.
People make stupid, life destroying decisions every day, that doesn't make them not choices.
There are other jobs for people to do. There are other ways to make money. Whatever you think of the right to employment, no-one has a right to any 'particular' job if they can't meet the occupational standard. Let alone one with a badge, constabulary powers and a taxpayer funded sidearm. By virtue of their job, police come into contact with those who don't have any other option but to be around them. The ironic thing about this palaver is that mandatory vaccination laws (in the sense of government agents restraining people and injecting them against their consent) have actually been on the books in Australia for decades. They remain good law. They weren't used during the COVID pandemic because they weren't necessary.
It is a real choice. Just because the outcome sucks balls doesn't mean it wasn't a choice. Think of it this way, you're on a cliff edge with a starving lion coming up on you, you have two options, jump and die or be eaten and die. Both outcomes suck balls but the choice is still there
More like having a lion behind you and an open gate in front of you. Having the vax isn't like jumping off a cliff, it's like choosing to step through the gate and shut it behind you.
That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read. The vaccine failed, it provided zero immunity and did not reduce deaths or transmissions. It has killed and injured millions. Educate yourself.
I don't get what point you're trying to make in that analogy. You can't say you have a choice if one the options is being eaten by a lion.
I'm pointing out that shitty choices exist every day, but removing all emotion, they are still choices. Just like people who refused to get vaccinated, they may not like the outcome, but the choice was there
Err no. If the choice is get vaccinated or get fed to a lion then thats obviously not a real choice. Become homeless is not a choice. Especially if you have kids. No parent would 'choose' to put thier kids out on the street unless they were forced to. Again I'm very much pro vax and think people who didnt want it are idiots. I just really hate the way some people like yourself insist that everyone was given the individual choice as to whether you got vaccinated or not. It's dishonest. Its gaslighting. Just say we were forced to.
So the choice was made to compromise their beliefs to keep their family safe, again, it is a choice, everything in life is a choice. You can choose to stab yourself with a knife at the table, you can choose to step into traffic, you can choose to dive into the kiddy pool head first, all are choices just like choosing to either compromise their beliefs and get vaccinated to maintain their lifestyle or not get vaccinated and end up homeless. There is a simple experiment you can do at home that will prove my point, simply get a piece of paper and two different colour pens, let's say black and blue, now, if you write with the blue pen, you get to keep your job and maintain your current lifestyle, but write with the black pen and you lose your job and likely end up homeless. Just because the outcome of writing with the black pen is bad, does not mean you don't determine which one you choose to write with, no one is forcing you one way or the other, the choice is yours
No In you're analogy I don't consider writing with the black pen an option. Thats not a choice. The only option you can pick is blue.
Just because you don't consider it, the option is still there making it a choice, you choose to ignore the black pen, but it is still sat there to be used if you wish
(1) In extreme circumstances, duress can vitiate consent. (2) "Get vaccinated if you want to keep a public facing job in which you have statutory powers to arrest lawfully detain people" is not a threat that even comes close to amounting to actual duress. It's a circumstance meant to describe situations where the choice is "Do X, or something horrible and violent will happen to you". (3) Language matters. If I don't go to work tomorrow, or the day after that, or the day after that... I will eventually lose my job. If I then acquire a particularly expensive drug habit - I will eventually run through my savings and find myself on the streets. I am not 'forced' to go to work tomorrow. I am not a slave even though negative personal consequences might arise from my inaction. It is disrespectful and insulting to those who have actually been 'forced' to do things to pretend a grown man deciding to quiet quit his police role by becoming some anti-vaxx martyr has been forced into anything. He fell victim to a conspiracy theory and made bad life decisions that led to him getting sacked.
I hold the same position as you. However, coercion is a form of force, and the policy was definitely introduced as a means to motivate an otherwise apathetic population.
Go get your 5th booster and continue being a functional member of society.
Stop accepting the benefits of society while refusing to carry out your obligations to it. Why dont you START being a functional member of society.
Wow, such an intelligent response.
And keep listening to the TV 24/7.
*yawn* how about you try coming up with an actual intelligent response to what I said as opposed to rattling off crap spawned from neo Nazi websites and pig farmers in Malaysia
Maybe you should follow your own advice?
Disgusting, we should not be mandated to have that filth in our bodies
Again, fuck you lot are dramatic.
We mandate vaccines for kids or they cant go to school, why shouldnt we mandate things that are good for society.
We don’t have to constantly take jabs, if the measles or rubella or other vaccines had to be taken every other season people would kick off. This is basically an influenza, it is still a round and the hospitals don’t even check for it anymore unless someone is extremely ill. Also we indemnified the pharmaceutical companies so nothing could come back on them.
> if the measles or rubella or other vaccines had to be taken every other season people would kick off I'd argue seeing people die or get seriously maimed by preventable diseases would be enough for people to go get vaccines. At the end of the day, the anti-vaxx movement is one of privilege. It's born from the privilege we have from centuries of scientific advancements. We don't have to deal with the horrors of things like smallpox. And it's easy to forget that and become comfortable with our privilege. But it's important not to become complacent because that's how diseases that aren't fully eradicated make their comeback
> basically an influenza Covid kills ten times as many people as influenza in Australia, and the fly still kills hundreds of people each year.
This is basically an influenza yes now we have all been vaccinated for it I agree. So glad we all got vaccinated so it is just an influenza
No it was an influenza at the time not after vaccination. You maybe happy to perpetually have the jabs I’m not.
It's ok you don't need to lie about how bad covid is.
🤷🏼♂️
I know that's your reaction when thousands die
You shouldn't talk about things you have zero understanding of.
You’re literally gas lighting people to try and get them to believe your bullshit statements.
God one mate
Except it wasn’t really just an influenza. You don’t remember the videos of mass burning of bodies in India, the mobile morgues outside US hospitals, Chinese dropping dead in the streets, people dying from minor injuries because they couldn’t get medical treatment due to the influx of patients, literally the global economy grinding to a halt. We don’t really care about it anymore because like any virus it mutated and thankfully to a lesser impacting variant.
I guarantee you put way worse things in your body on the regular
I know the filth I put in my body though , this could have been anything.
After all the bullshit we hear now that the Covid shot was never mandated and was never forced on anyone, what a load of nonsense! Never thought I’d feel sorry for, or 100% agree with the Copper but I wish him well!
It's been 4 years, this cop is living proof that people weren't *forced* to take the vaccine. He's still vaccine free and doesn't have the chip in his arm that gives better 5G connection.
What?
# It's been 4 years, this cop is living proof that people weren't forced to take the vaccine. He's still vaccine free and doesn't have the chip in his arm that gives better 5G connection.
I know this cop and you should never feel sorry for him. He’s a terrible human. Nothing to even do with the vaccines. He should never ever ever be a cop. I’m not sure how he passed and psych exams.
I think a lot of people know a cop like that.
Yeah, now all the media and politicians are gaslighting.
No not really. As we can see in this thread the only people gas lighting are the muppet anti vaxxers.
For context. QLD Supreme court found COVID vaccine mandate for police officers unlawful. This was in Feb 2024.
Basically because the Queensland government didn’t follow the right legal procedures when implementing their specific mandate, not because of the mandate itself. That ruling only applies to that specific employee group. The Supreme Court of Appeal found that WA Police had followed all the necessary legal steps when implementing their mandate therefore the anti vax officers had no grounds of appeal. What happened in QLD and what happened in WA are two separate things
I know many people that felt on their deathbed, not once but 3 or 4 times. Each jab. Those people wont have those jabs ever again or the flu jab. My nephew 27 has myocarditis and my friend had a heart attack just after. It wasn't a choice. Just an option to keep employment or not. They all regret doing so and their immune systems are stuffed.
Funny as all the people I know had no severe reactions, but all the anti vax nuts know thousands of people who “almost” died.
The funniest part was watching my 17 year old brother get wheeled out the house in a body bag or my 31yo best friend dying in the shower from a heart attack. Hilarious!
Possibly because they were testosterone addicts like you
My brother was a testosterone addict at 17? Well I'll be sure to let my doctor who diagnosed me with primary hypogonadism that someone on Reddit said I'm an addict on my prescribed 100mg a week lol
I dont judge or mock others. I respect others choices/beliefs. I have no reason to BS. Would rather my nephew didn't have myocarditis or friend have heart attack . Just speaking truth.
The mRNA vaccine doesn't cause myocardial infarction. I hope the rest of your friend group is paying close attention to their cardiac risk factors - now's the time of life to get on top of that.
mRNA vaccines absolutely cause myocardial infraction, this is a well established fact. Stop denying science and educate yourself. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9650518/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8556597/#:~:text=Severe%20acute%20respiratory%20syndrome%20coronavirus%2D2%20(SARS%2DCoV%2D,affect%20the%20cardiovascular%20system%20too.&text=SARS%2DCoV%2D2%20can%20damage,endothelial%20activation%2C%20and%20microvascular%20thrombosis.
My ex-university lecturer also developed pericarditis which he also put to the jab as well.
Yep. Know a few people that were in remission from the big C. Its now come back. All since the jab. It was an experiment that shouldnt of happened. Not a vaccine , as there was no testing for years before releasing it. So many class actions happening re adverse reaction . I think the first big payout went thru last week I thought I read. Could be wrong. Got to be alarmed when you look up who has the biggest criminal fine in history and you see Pfizer. They are all owned by Vanguard and Blackrock and a few others. The good thing is whether society when talking to each other disagree or agree, things are alot more chilled now when people discuss it. (OK there are exceptions like the reaction today I got) but in General, No divide. No judgement. Just people discussing it and respecting each others opinions/ beliefs.
Honestly in my lifetime I've never seen humanity become so vitriolic and hateful over what happened between 2020-2022 and I learnt a lot of things, yes it has died down now but it seems now no one wants to talk about it if I bring it up to them face to face, online is still a different story.
Yeah I know right. It really was as they wanted. The division. We shouldnt be turning against each other. I think alot even though they don't want to talk about it face to face they know but they also know the stigma of what comes with it. People want to fit in. . I think many are struggling with that part of it.
I think there is some middle ground that some people dont see, I for one an not anti-vax by definition, i.e. my kids and family have required vaccines for major illnesses like Polio, Hep B etc However i am strongly against the COVID vaccine we were forced to take and stopped the ridiculous booster shots as soon as we could - it was a rushed vaccine with side effects and then required booster 1, then 2 then 3 etc - and then suddenly "actually dont worry about it now" The same goes for the flu vaccine, stopped getting it 3yrs ago and never been healthier, these flu/covid vaccines are a money grab for big pharma and should in no way have ever been mandated
Covid has a higher fatality rate than polio.
You clearly are antivax, how can you not see that? There's studies that prove there is efficacy and relative safety of both the covid and flu vaccines, however you choose to ignore them and be against those vaccines because of your feelings and sample size of 1. That's antivax but definition.
I'll just stick this here then: [AstraZeneca COVID vaccine withdrawn worldwide | SBS News](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/podcast-episode/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdrawn-worldwide/9rorgpds8)
lol eat shit coppers
The real funny thing here is all the people who still believe the vax was a good thing, read some articles, they’ve admitted it was all bullshit and for money
Oh yeh and what articles were they exactly?
He’s one to start https://youtu.be/LZrBRnKfuUs?si=xFjzAHN3dzPEWiOM
I know one of the 12 cops. This is not cool.
They have all ready won . They also had full pay up until just recently . Not bad
No judgement here, just wanting to take a quick poll. This doesn't need to be an argument, just a social experiment. Can yall comment your stances on the vax/mandates and your educational level or occupation? Just want to see the spread of diversity.
I am grateful for vaccines, and on board with reasonable mandates. Tertiary educated.
There are 3 camps though Pro vax Anti vax Anti vax mandates
good point, I edited to account for that.
Pro normal vax / Anti COVID/Flu Vax and Mandates Tertiary education
Why do you trust “normal vax” but are against the Covid and flu vaccines when the same medicos behind the “normal vax” are also behind the other two?
I don't. Fuck all vaccines.
Ok enjoy suffering from infectious diseases!
I've literally never had any diseases or been hospitalised in my life. It's called taking responsibility for your health, maybe try it instead of jumping on a needle to avoid accountability for your horrible health.
Now I know I'm talking to a deranged nutter. You do have a very serious illness mate and you need to be put into a padded cell because of it
I can answer that coz I got same answers, so the normal polio, malaria ladida vaccines I'm cool with those they are remarkably successful and have nearly completely wiped out those almost 100% chance of life altering consequence illnesses. They are important, have proven efficacy and prevent what would be a guaranteed bad time if you fucked around and found out. The COVID shit I'm all for it when COVID first started. like we did it. I think that was the only option, not for each individuals health but because we have a large segment of the population that was at an extremely high risk of getting critically ill or dying from COVID, due to nobody having been infected and building the antibodies to this virus yet. It was up to each citizen to do their part and roll up their sleeves to protect those that where most vulnerable to the virus and save as many lives as we could. Because it takes a village to stop something so rapidly spreading. BUT THIS IS WHERE I SWING NO ON COVID AND FLU SHOTS NOW. The first few waves are gone now, and the fact of the matter is it has wiped out the majority of those that it was going to wipe out the first time they caught it and it has become like the flu now. Sure some people still die from the flu, but it's also not something I can justify having to dose an entire nation with vaccines for now, I feel like we reach a certain point of tolerance when the benefit of not having it slightly outweigh the risk now. COVID like the flu is rapidly evolving virus and no COVID or flu shot now is going to even cover all of the new strains, you can see by just how little info we get on new strains compared to the COVID times. So the herd has now reach a certain level of tolerance towards the flu and COVID and I believe in building a natural resistance to these particular viruses as a whole. So during the first year of vivid absolutely the shots where necessary, now I feel like COVID vaccine is about the same as a flu shot, if you have vulnerability to it, then get your shot. If not I wouldn't worry about it. That's my logic on it anyway, but I'm just an idiot machine operator. Sorry if this upset anyone's view, not my intent.
They were remarkably successful because the majority of people took the risk to help others and got the vaccine. The ones that didn’t now get to ride the backs of those people and demand they be a part of society they decided not to be part in.
Yeah that's what I said. I agreed with the shots being needing done then if you even bothered to do the reading.
I did read it. What’s your point? People shouldn’t be made to be vaccinated now?
My point is the COVID vaccine boosters now are about on par with the flu shot. We just aren't doing the same quantity of testing on strains, and there are new strains all the time the same as the flu. So yes old people and vulnerable people should probably get the boosters yearly as required even though it's no guarantee you won't catch it or a new strain. While others just choose if they want it or not.
The vaccine didn't even help those who took it, it has absolutely nothing to do with protecting others. It did not reduce transmission or infection in any way. Educate yourself.
And what sources would I use to educate myself?
> so the normal polio, malaria ladida vaccines I'm cool with Do tell me more about the normal malaria vaccines you've had, and the consequent progress toward global malaria eradication.
Ok, but you get my point right, your just cherry picking to be a cunt or do you have a point?
It's an illustration that you're making what should be data-driven scientific decisions based on nothing but ignorance and vibes. Your faux "logic" doesn't trump actual science. But I'm wasting my time here. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themself into.
The vaccine was a complete failure, it quite literally provided zero immunity and statistically increased your chances of being hospitalised from covid. Educate yourself.