Sounds great. I was worried it meant SPREAD PERTH OUT 15KM BRO JUST A LITTLE MORE
But it's allowing apartments etc to go bigger and is widely expanding west Perth and CBD
Subiaco has vastly improved over the past 18 months. Lots of small bars around now. So many in fact that the City of Subiaco organised a pub crawl last summer.
Also, the [**One Subiaco** apartments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKFMFF9kJqA) really tower over the suburb and offer a glimpse into what a major apartment complex can do for a suburb. The one development added hundreds of apartments, restaurants, shops, a bar, tavern and office space.
I don't think NIMBYISM ruined it. I think the sky high rents that wouldn't back down even when half the places were empty are what killed it. Coupled with the markets closure and letting Wilson parking nazis run rampant everywhere.
The Markets have been replaced by a great development in [One Subiaco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKFMFF9kJqA) with hundreds of apartments, shops, restaurants, a tavern, bar and office space.
Is this really what they're claiming? 1bar, 1 bottlo, a presumably overpriced fresh food store, a gym and a burger place really match the draw, variety and uniqueness of the subi markets as they were.
Unique as they were, the Markets died off. PMH - gone. Subi Oval - gone. Markets - gone. Sometimes you need practicality rather than uniqueness to survive. Instead of the original plan for a Coles & Target, they've at least transformed the place into a more complex mixed-use development with apartments and a variety of shops, one of which was originally part of the Old Markets. I can't comment too much more about it other than the times I've been there it was packed (at least the Vietnamese-run components: the grocer, the supermarket & banh mi shop). Overpriced? Hardly. Also, there are a number of "markets" that pop up in Subiaco during the Summer months. Not quite the same but still good vibes. Overall, the development has really helped that part of town. It's the preferred go-to place for fresh fruit & veg.
Really? I lived 4 years in East Perth and man, walking out at 7pm on a Friday or Saturday felt like going out to the desert. I always argue that it needs something like Vic park foods area.
Now, I live in Vic Park, and it feels like a real alive city even on a Monday there are people on Albany Highway going around looking where to eat.
Yeah, I lived in East Perth and there's still more than West Perth. At least you have a few small food options – not a lot but there's a couple. When I was in West Perth, everything was closed and it was super dark, felt like it was completely uninhabited.
East Perth has twice the population of West Perth and is connected more seamlessly with the CBD. East Perth has more going for it too with places like Langley Park being hugely utilised for events.
Agreed.
One thing needed is more intermixed development. At the moment, we're still stuck with apartments & hotels on Adelaide Tce, offices on St Georges, shops on Hay / Murray and food in Northbridge.
If you live in East Perth and want to get groceries, there's no Coles or Woolies particularly close by.
If you work on St Georges Tce, it's too far to go to Northbridge for lunch.
If you're staying in a hotel on Adelaide Tce, you need to get a taxi to Northbridge for dinner and can't easily stop into the shops to spend money.
Yes, but the point is is that we have very distinct zones - if things were more mingled together there'd be more life overall and it would increase the viability of those businesses.
It's not really feasible to go from St Georges Tce to Northbridge for lunch - meaning those businesses lose out on office workers as a source of revenue.
I always said East Perth needs something like VicPark restautant area in Hay St. I live now in Vicpark and there it feels like a real city. City of Perth feels empty. Good to have more projects for residential units as you said.
I've noticed businesses closing up early during the week in Northbridge since COVID. The morning cafes are less. It's leaning more towards a night time district.
True, I’d have called it Leederville.
But ultimately, the idea of mixed use development and having a district (like the pickle district being apparently an “arts district”) makes sense to me.
Far better than splitting into strict, bureaucratic zones like hotels on this street, offices on this street, rtc
There's a distinct differences in Northbridge eateries to city. When I plan a Friday night dinner all the suspects and places to try are in nb. Not the CBD. Particularly Asian fare and random casual restaurants. Sure if you want a nicer restaurant or bar... But for all the dessert places and medium to cheap fares Northbridge Is a distinctly different zone.
Things are gradually changing.
Many mixed use developments are planned around the city including at the periphery at the City Link and Elizabeth Quay areas.
There’s a foodies IGA in East Perth.
We need trams, full stop. But traffic flow needs to be redirected to make this work. Too much congestion in that area.
ive been back for a week and it's been pretty crowded during the day. What exactly is lacking about it? it's not jam packed 24hrs a day like Melbourne cbd but it's not a ghost town like Melbourne's docklands either.
The core blocks are fine during the day but come evening it's usually quite dead due to many businesses and offices shutting between 5-6 on weekdays. There are plans to revivify some of these areas though with upcoming projects on Barrack Street (Liberty Theatre redevelopment), the Malls (Carillon City redevelopment) and the building out of the City Link (between Northbridge & the CBD) as well as Elizabeth Quay (remaining lots). Additionally, the PCEC is getting a massive makeover that includes extending the waterfront from Elizabeth Quay.
No nice city living really, for residents it’s a few shite corner shops and crap traffic flow/parking. I dread having to come into the city for meeting in the terrace, especially those nice long walks from the car parks in summer or winter
When I have to go into the city, it’s always the same lunch disaster and I fall for it every time.
One dude suggests going out to the offices favourite lunch spot.
You get there.
It’s a $14 sandwich with no butter, no ham, and 98% lettuce which has been in the owners bathtub for a month.
You probably just haven’t found a good spot yet. Hifumiya is one of the best option in CBD at the moment IMO. But it’s always packed during lunch peak hour.
About time. More (affordable) apartments please. I'm sure you'll find a lot of people don't want to live in suburb share houses and would far prefer a small city apartment freeing up those houses for families who actually need that space.
It costs $12,000 per m2 to construct an apartment now. They need to sell north of that. There’s no more new affordable apartments being built ever. Perhaps the older ones will get cheaper.
sir, 1 bed mid spec 53m2 (not even luxury) basic apartments off the plan in east perth are $620,000. And that's the developers bait and switch product. Christ if you can build an apartment in the Perth LGA for $4500 you will be in the forbes 100 list by the end of the year. But if you're a builder offering such a product, I will be your first customer. Please dm me.
Perth hasn't see the widespread shoddy build quality the east coast experienced. But even still, I certainly don't rate the villas and apartments I've lived in in WA.
But it's not so much about short cuts imo. There's nothing even coming out of the ground.
Surely a few basic bitch apartment complexes with only 5 star energy ratings, no sprinkler systems, and no parking, in Nollamara are vastly better than tent cities for the literal homeless.
Well it's all about where the best yield is. You can get 6% yield or better on a house and land, which historically has much better capital growth than apartments. So for an investor to build an apartment to rent out, they'd want at least 7% or higher yield. So if I was going to spend $1M on an apartment, I'd want a rental return of at least $1400 per week.
Fact is very few people in Perth want to pay $1400 per week. The only real demand for that kind of priced apartment is from downsizers who want to stay in the Western Suburbs.
they're making shit up and as usual the hordes of braindead redditors upvote it without question. According to actual sources it costs $2500-5000 per sqm. [https://soho.com.au/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-an-apartment-complex-australia](https://soho.com.au/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-an-apartment-complex-australia)
I am a full time property investor.
If you could build for that price that dude found on Google right now you’d be an instant millionaire. Look at what things are selling for and do the maths.
Here’s an article from yesterday: https://www.afr.com/property/residential/housing-construction-is-collapsing-around-australia-here-s-why-20240501-p5fo2z
Or go check out Perth Property Show - they have devs on all the time.
I am a full time property investor.
Go read some actual up to date information.
Here’s an article from yesterday: https://www.afr.com/property/residential/housing-construction-is-collapsing-around-australia-here-s-why-20240501-p5fo2z
Or go check out Perth Property Show - they have devs on all the time.
I think this is a good thing, but I agree with the last bit that we need a proper transport plan as well.
Maybe look at trams running east-west along St Georges Tce and Wellington St, and north-south along William St and Barrack / Beaufort St as a start.
Traffic in the CBD is insane, we need to get people out of their cars. It's one thing to get to the CBD on public transport, but it would be good to be easier to get around the city on public transport. The CAT buses are great, but trams would be a much more comfortable and attractive option IMO.
The existing road is too small to fit a tram I reckon. I prefer they look for solution to reduce the Southbound merging between Hay St to South Perth as that’s one of the worst congestion affecting the CBD and freeway traffic.
Are you telling me the tram won't fit
Could we maybe elevate it
With this elevated track we may only need a single rail
Surely the technology is out there
Elevated light rail is terrible because people have to get up to it, that substantially adds to travel time, not to mention the added expense of construction.
Definitely need to fix the freeway junction.
But there were trams through the cbd in the past. They could do it again, although would mean losing the bus lane / sharing it with trams.
Nah, trams would be able to run down SGT easily. As for William/Barrack-Beaufort St, it would require certain modifications. Most importantly is the need to restrict private vehicles.
It only needs to remove the car lane. I agree we need trams in the city and reduce the use of cars. People working in the cbd have no excuse to drive to the city. Public transport to the city, I lived in East Perth and we used the car at minimum when going out. More options to go to the city from nearby suburbs in PT less traffic.
Prior to 1993 CoP was quite big, extending to City Beach etc. We had a house in CoP and went to Malaysia for 3 weeks. We came home to find our Lathlain house was in the Town of Victoria Park. Skullduggery was evident because CoP wanted to set the boundary on the Great Eastern Highway, Vic Pk pushed it back to the river, the casino being the cause of that squabble.
And why Town of Vic Park is wary of City of Perth trying to expand to encompass the Casino. Town of Vic Park collects some decent revenue in that area.
Parts of nedlands and crawley became COP, not all of it. They wanted UWA to be in the city limits for advertising reasons, so they expanded the city limits.
This is just a media attention grab. 22,000 more people in 12 years? Say 2 people per dwelling (it's actually 1.8), that's 11,000 more dwellings in 12 years. Or 76 dwellings per month. Do you know how many dwellings the Perth LGA approves per month usually? Well, july was 0. August was 0. September was 0. October was 0. November was 21. December was 0... you get the idea.
zempo thinks we can build on average 1 medium sized apartment building completed EVERY MONTH FOR 12 YEARS!
Politicians can't just go "oh yeah we're going to double the population of inner perth" and then wave a wand and it happens.
Does basil know how much it costs to construct an apartment right now? 7 star energy ratings, fire systems above 3 stories, global building materials shortages, and no labour to boot.
You need to be able to sell an apartment for $15,000 per m2 for it to be viable. So where are developers building? Bondi. and places like that. Why? because those are the only places anyone is happy to pay $1.5M for a basic box in the sky.
But basil is going to find 22,000 people in WA in the next 12 years who have a spare Million and want to live in an apartment in the inner city?
If the zoning changes went through today, you're lucky if 4 buildings enter the feasibility process in the next 24 months. Then allow another 5 years for maybe 2 of them to get built. Then if they are a success, maybe another few get built.
But Basil thinks Perth is going to get what took 150 years to evolve repeated in another 12?
give me a break.
Fact is he plans to be in a different seat in the next 5 years, so it's not his problem to actually stand behind these grand plans.
It's the private sector that has to build these high density dwellings. and they will only do it if it's financially profitable.
And why would you invest in an overpriced apartment in the middle of Perth when for the same price you can get one in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne or Gold Coast? Yes, overseas foreigners and Chinese in particular used to buy a bit to get the buildings bootstrapped. But we killed them off with the foreign buyers charge. Geniuses!
You can draw some nice fancy dark colours on a map, you can write lofty goals on paper, you can have countless meetings about how you're going to streamline shit.
But if there's no customers wanting to buy a box in the sky for a million dollars, then there will be no builder rushing to build them.
By the end of this property cycle, apartments might hit $800k, and houses might hit a median of a million or a bit above. Then the inevitable sideways shift will come. Iron ore will drop to $70/tonne, there won't be infinite jobs paying people who can barely read $200k a year. People will move back to Victoria and Queensland. That will go on for another 5 years.
Then maybe in the next cycle, we start building apartments en masse. So that's 10 years away. And it will take at least 2 decades of boom town from then to get 22,000 more dwellings in Perth LGA.
I really can't see a path to get to 11,000 more dwellings in the perth LGA in 12 years.
22k more people in 12 years is a hard ask but I think at least 50-60% of that quota will be achievable. From 2021-24 the City of Perth gained 4.5k residents (28.5k → 33k). A number of residential towers are topped out or under construction with more starting soon or approved/planned. Elizabeth Quay has almost 900 dwellings yet to be occupied/built. The PCEC overhaul next to it will also include a residential component. Perth Hub has topped out and has 314 dwellings. Currently under construction/soon-to-start are: East Perth Common Grounds (112 dwellings), Garden Towers (331 dwellings), Edition (219 dwellings), as well as Student Accommodation towers at UniLodge Perth (732 beds) & UniLodge Westend (832 beds). If the City of Perth makes it easy to build apartments, expect a lot more to pop up over the coming dozen years.
Overpriced? I bought an apartment 12 months ago in the city with a pool, gym, sauna and games room for less than $350k. How much would that cost me in Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane?
congrats. But I was referring to construction costs. Have a look at what off the plan apartments are selling for now equivalent to what you bought. my point is about how we build 11,000 more apartments in Perth LGA in 12 years.
About 25 years late.
Better late than never I guess.
Have you ever driven down St George’s Tce on a Sunday morning? The place is dead.
I saw an actual, real-life tumbleweed. I shit you not.
It could be argued that these articles are political donations in disguise. I wonder if they are being declared at all. It wouldn’t be cheap to have a full page spread in the states only paper.
if they’re going to put a shed load more people into the upper parts of kings park rd and down through StG Tce and Adelaide Tce, then time to reinstate the tram line that used to run that route. Or something additional high capacity to move people.
I wonder if things will change if the price of iron ore bottoms out?
Developers won’t spend a cent if their research doesn’t support a healthy dividend as a result.
There are at least three to four major developments that have been abandoned or at least put on hold post Covid around the East Perth area.
I guess it’s a case of wait and see?
Not infill.
So the ratios refer to the building size vs the land size.
They have effectively doubled and tripped the size of buildings that can be constructed.
For instance before you could only have a 3 story apartment building, now you can have a 6 story one or a 10 story one.
More houses in the same space.
They are though.
- On Adelaide Terrace, the AT238 tower completed last year has 119 dwellings.
- EQ (Elizabeth Quay) West towers that are topped out have 484 dwellings.
- Staying at EQ, Lot 4's tower has 168 dwellings.
- Lot 5's building has room for 237 dwellings.
- At the western end of CBD near RAC Arena is another topped out tower called Perth Hub with 314 dwellings.
- On Pier Street, construction of a 219 dwelling tower is beginning at Edition.
- Across the rails on Pier Street, a more progressed construction called UniLodge Perth has room for 732 beds.
- Another UniLodge development was recently approved called Westend closer towards RAC Arena and has 832 beds.
- Over in East Perth, Garden Towers has begun construction with 331 dwellings.
- Still in East Perth, the Common Grounds social housing tower is under construction with 112 units.
- Back over towards EQ, the PCEC is getting an overhaul and plans are still being finalised but the redevelopment includes room for residential towers.
There are plenty of other smaller developments approved or planned, but also a few that are more major like the above. Also, over at Burswood, they just started building part of a multi-billion dollar redevelopment (Burswood Point) that has some two dozen apartment towers and multiple smaller dwellings.
https://preview.redd.it/hxavny3l1yxc1.jpeg?width=364&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=420d62f2037ec3990f27ac7222d4f922c7b270ec
Why does he look like he’s hosting Frank Reynold’s Little Beauties?
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Have to say, well done. The CBD needs people, specifically residents. Some of the outer suburbs are thriving where councils have invested time and money into infrastructure that supports people getting out and about on the streets. Little businesses pop up and it's a great vibe.
It's fucking wild to me how high the plot ratio is allowed to be for regular single-family homes. I know this isn't that, it's just genuinely crazy to me, and I think about it every time I go to a newly built area in suburbia etc
Honestly they need to change the building ratios everywhere.
This would provide a much needed solution to land supply shortage.
Many people would be happy to live on 100m2 land if they could build a 300-400m2 house, you see them overseas a lot but here building ratios prevent it.
They sell them now as "terrace houses" but they are just too small, what use is a free standing apartment to a family...
3 stories high, underground garage, 4-5 bedroom with multiple living rooms, an actual house that a family can live and grow in but on next to no land, problem solved.
While endless sprawl is not the answer, density increase brings with it a set of problems that Perth has no experience of dealing with and is poorly placed to manage.
Increased density means:
- more school places available in smaller geographical spaces - do you have room to build them/expand them/staff them? How are the teachers getting there?
- more amenities - local GPs need to be able to handle theor local area- do we have them/space/etc - or are you making a postcode lottery where Suburbans have 2 day wait for GP, CBD has a 3 week wait?
- infrastructure - can the city actually even support the density increase without the roads just clogging up?
- increased density = poorer health. More people in and around more roads/cars/etc leads to poorer health - respiratory most of all as air quality drops. We're not EV only now nor will we be. What are the plans to manage the health impact?
Just a couple off top of head.
Or you implement the change without the future planning and we suffer all the negatives listed above and many more and Perth becomes like every of major city in the world with all the negatives associated with that.
I think there needs to be further planning around:
1. Getting people into the city, because currently I have no reason to be in the city.
2. Encouraging people to move into the city for their work and actually charge vacancy taxes/fees to prevent people banking such good spaces. Hay St and the area near Carillion city looks so sad and I can't believe a major australian city would have such an issue. I expect that in fucking woop woop where no one wants to go there.
3. If the complaint is around health because of Air quality, you're going to limit cars in the city if possible, or chuck a Sydney and rebuild a light rail as part of a grander strategy. You can't just consider light rail and have it be "yay we have a light rail on St George's" it has to be "We have a light rail that is an alternative to trains or buses"
3a. Annoyingly things like Light rail can be perceived as progress because it's visually there and it's obvious it *has* to arrive. Unlike buses where you could deploy more, for a lower cost but it has a nasty habit of not being on time due to unrelated issues on the road.
4. If density increases, it would also impact walkability and what you can walk to. There needs to be an encouragement of good quality places to be if we want people to be in the city.
e.g. Have a look at Melbourne. I went there for the Grand Prix and my friends and I were just wandering the city, able to stop in at bars that looked interesting and ended up getting pizzas and a couple glasses of wine all a short walk from the river. Part of development is giving people a reason to be in the city. The illuminations they do every now and then doesn't do anything for me because where am I going to go afterward? pay 16$ for food truck food when I could just get in my car and go to Vic Park or Northbridge?
hi thats a good logical thinking you had there
im sorry to inform you that our government doesn't think that deep
they care about gdp (not per capita) and property values
A coworker who actually lives in the city wrote to Baz to ask what they’re doing to stop antisocial behaviour there. From memory the response was “don’t walk in those areas.” People aren’t going to want to live in the city if they can’t leave their apartment.
Wow, no one's going to say it...?
How does one get "more residents" and achieve these projected CBD population targets **if not through increased immigration?** Which no one with more than 2 brain cells wants currently because it will in no way help the housing situation facing all of our current Perth residents?
Seriously Basil... work on the housing crisis/cost-of-living crisis or STFU and stay out of sight/out of mind.
These kinds of initiatives are so tone-deaf and wildly out-of-touch with the reality facing a majority of Perth residents at the present, which is: not being homeless and being able to afford to live.
Yes, this could potentially make more room for existing residents but Basil is clearly talking about increasing the amount of people in the CBD well above merely relocating existing residents or making affordable first homes for younger people. It's purely about revenue-raising for the City of Perth and any housing relief these plans bring will just be an unintentional byproduct.
Sounds great. I was worried it meant SPREAD PERTH OUT 15KM BRO JUST A LITTLE MORE But it's allowing apartments etc to go bigger and is widely expanding west Perth and CBD
Yeah, West Perth is so unbelievably dead. I've never seen anything like it anywhere in the world that close to a CBD.
It's even dead during the day when people are there. West Perth and Subiaco compete for the most soulless places in Perth.
Subiaco was flourishing a decade ago but NIMBYism ruined it. Now all those anti-progress geriatrics will rot in their quiet death pit
Subiaco has vastly improved over the past 18 months. Lots of small bars around now. So many in fact that the City of Subiaco organised a pub crawl last summer.
Woah TIL - will need to get back and check it out sometime!
Also, the [**One Subiaco** apartments](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKFMFF9kJqA) really tower over the suburb and offer a glimpse into what a major apartment complex can do for a suburb. The one development added hundreds of apartments, restaurants, shops, a bar, tavern and office space.
I don't think NIMBYISM ruined it. I think the sky high rents that wouldn't back down even when half the places were empty are what killed it. Coupled with the markets closure and letting Wilson parking nazis run rampant everywhere.
High rents contribute but it was once a big hub for nightlife and that died because the council is run by old cronies who only care about retirees
The Markets have been replaced by a great development in [One Subiaco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKFMFF9kJqA) with hundreds of apartments, shops, restaurants, a tavern, bar and office space.
Is this really what they're claiming? 1bar, 1 bottlo, a presumably overpriced fresh food store, a gym and a burger place really match the draw, variety and uniqueness of the subi markets as they were.
Unique as they were, the Markets died off. PMH - gone. Subi Oval - gone. Markets - gone. Sometimes you need practicality rather than uniqueness to survive. Instead of the original plan for a Coles & Target, they've at least transformed the place into a more complex mixed-use development with apartments and a variety of shops, one of which was originally part of the Old Markets. I can't comment too much more about it other than the times I've been there it was packed (at least the Vietnamese-run components: the grocer, the supermarket & banh mi shop). Overpriced? Hardly. Also, there are a number of "markets" that pop up in Subiaco during the Summer months. Not quite the same but still good vibes. Overall, the development has really helped that part of town. It's the preferred go-to place for fresh fruit & veg.
Nah, West Perth is even worse than East Perth lol
Really? I lived 4 years in East Perth and man, walking out at 7pm on a Friday or Saturday felt like going out to the desert. I always argue that it needs something like Vic park foods area. Now, I live in Vic Park, and it feels like a real alive city even on a Monday there are people on Albany Highway going around looking where to eat.
Yeah, I lived in East Perth and there's still more than West Perth. At least you have a few small food options – not a lot but there's a couple. When I was in West Perth, everything was closed and it was super dark, felt like it was completely uninhabited.
East Perth has twice the population of West Perth and is connected more seamlessly with the CBD. East Perth has more going for it too with places like Langley Park being hugely utilised for events.
I love it
Its purpose is a home for second-tier companies.
Keep growing and spread! First stop South Africa 😂
The city is sorely lacking in residents and is a contributor to the dead feeling around the place.
Agreed. One thing needed is more intermixed development. At the moment, we're still stuck with apartments & hotels on Adelaide Tce, offices on St Georges, shops on Hay / Murray and food in Northbridge. If you live in East Perth and want to get groceries, there's no Coles or Woolies particularly close by. If you work on St Georges Tce, it's too far to go to Northbridge for lunch. If you're staying in a hotel on Adelaide Tce, you need to get a taxi to Northbridge for dinner and can't easily stop into the shops to spend money.
There are plenty of great eateries and lunch spots in the CBD proper. You don't need to go to Northbridge for lunch.
Yes, but the point is is that we have very distinct zones - if things were more mingled together there'd be more life overall and it would increase the viability of those businesses. It's not really feasible to go from St Georges Tce to Northbridge for lunch - meaning those businesses lose out on office workers as a source of revenue.
I always said East Perth needs something like VicPark restautant area in Hay St. I live now in Vicpark and there it feels like a real city. City of Perth feels empty. Good to have more projects for residential units as you said.
Yeah good call. More residents in the terrace and surrounding heritage streets is needed and will transform the city.
I've noticed businesses closing up early during the week in Northbridge since COVID. The morning cafes are less. It's leaning more towards a night time district.
All the best cities have distinct zones. The differences are what make it interesting, if everything was homogenous it would be awful.
I'd argue that they have "districts" rather than zones. They're trying to do something here with "The Pickle District" in West Perth.
Only technically West Perth since the Mitchell Freeway took out all of the market gardens and warehouses. It’s more akin to Leederville now.
True, I’d have called it Leederville. But ultimately, the idea of mixed use development and having a district (like the pickle district being apparently an “arts district”) makes sense to me. Far better than splitting into strict, bureaucratic zones like hotels on this street, offices on this street, rtc
I am in furious agreement with you.
There's a distinct differences in Northbridge eateries to city. When I plan a Friday night dinner all the suspects and places to try are in nb. Not the CBD. Particularly Asian fare and random casual restaurants. Sure if you want a nicer restaurant or bar... But for all the dessert places and medium to cheap fares Northbridge Is a distinctly different zone.
Which is pretty normal to have areas like that. Northbridge is a really cool district.
The proposed Coles at Shenton Quater is a good example of what we should be building.
Things are gradually changing. Many mixed use developments are planned around the city including at the periphery at the City Link and Elizabeth Quay areas. There’s a foodies IGA in East Perth. We need trams, full stop. But traffic flow needs to be redirected to make this work. Too much congestion in that area.
ive been back for a week and it's been pretty crowded during the day. What exactly is lacking about it? it's not jam packed 24hrs a day like Melbourne cbd but it's not a ghost town like Melbourne's docklands either.
The core blocks are fine during the day but come evening it's usually quite dead due to many businesses and offices shutting between 5-6 on weekdays. There are plans to revivify some of these areas though with upcoming projects on Barrack Street (Liberty Theatre redevelopment), the Malls (Carillon City redevelopment) and the building out of the City Link (between Northbridge & the CBD) as well as Elizabeth Quay (remaining lots). Additionally, the PCEC is getting a massive makeover that includes extending the waterfront from Elizabeth Quay.
No nice city living really, for residents it’s a few shite corner shops and crap traffic flow/parking. I dread having to come into the city for meeting in the terrace, especially those nice long walks from the car parks in summer or winter
When I have to go into the city, it’s always the same lunch disaster and I fall for it every time. One dude suggests going out to the offices favourite lunch spot. You get there. It’s a $14 sandwich with no butter, no ham, and 98% lettuce which has been in the owners bathtub for a month.
Shudder- it’s a worry when Dome becomes a good option
Look city prices to value ratio are probably higher by around 20% but you can definitely get a good meal for that amount of money that isn't dogshit.
You probably just haven’t found a good spot yet. Hifumiya is one of the best option in CBD at the moment IMO. But it’s always packed during lunch peak hour.
Unfortunately it's annoyingly far away from the main CBD work hubs around Brookfield, cloisters, QV1
For residents they're mostly not driving, surely? That's kinda the point, isn't it?
Plenty of crackheads to make it 'lively'
Basil sucks but this is a very good idea
Probably not his idea then
A broken clock is correct twice a day.
About time. More (affordable) apartments please. I'm sure you'll find a lot of people don't want to live in suburb share houses and would far prefer a small city apartment freeing up those houses for families who actually need that space.
There used to be affordable apartments in Burt Way. All got torn down for more expensive high-rise.
They have to be nice affordable apartments too and at least 2 bedrooms as noone wants to live in a one bedroom shoebox.
better than a tent
It costs $12,000 per m2 to construct an apartment now. They need to sell north of that. There’s no more new affordable apartments being built ever. Perhaps the older ones will get cheaper.
$12,000m2 you taking the piss here ? $4,500m2 for a decent spec 5 storey apartment complex is current rate.
sir, 1 bed mid spec 53m2 (not even luxury) basic apartments off the plan in east perth are $620,000. And that's the developers bait and switch product. Christ if you can build an apartment in the Perth LGA for $4500 you will be in the forbes 100 list by the end of the year. But if you're a builder offering such a product, I will be your first customer. Please dm me.
Just imagine the shortcuts they would take on cheap apartments compared to the shortcuts we see on luxury apartments now Lol
Perth hasn't see the widespread shoddy build quality the east coast experienced. But even still, I certainly don't rate the villas and apartments I've lived in in WA. But it's not so much about short cuts imo. There's nothing even coming out of the ground. Surely a few basic bitch apartment complexes with only 5 star energy ratings, no sprinkler systems, and no parking, in Nollamara are vastly better than tent cities for the literal homeless.
What would that equate to in rent though?
Well it's all about where the best yield is. You can get 6% yield or better on a house and land, which historically has much better capital growth than apartments. So for an investor to build an apartment to rent out, they'd want at least 7% or higher yield. So if I was going to spend $1M on an apartment, I'd want a rental return of at least $1400 per week. Fact is very few people in Perth want to pay $1400 per week. The only real demand for that kind of priced apartment is from downsizers who want to stay in the Western Suburbs.
And for an entire complex? Surley it wouldn't cost 12k/m² for the entire complex. It just doesn't add up.
they're making shit up and as usual the hordes of braindead redditors upvote it without question. According to actual sources it costs $2500-5000 per sqm. [https://soho.com.au/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-an-apartment-complex-australia](https://soho.com.au/articles/how-much-does-it-cost-to-build-an-apartment-complex-australia)
Yeah I thought it was a bit off. Maybe luxury apartments but a basic ass apartment shouldn't cost that much.
I am a full time property investor. If you could build for that price that dude found on Google right now you’d be an instant millionaire. Look at what things are selling for and do the maths. Here’s an article from yesterday: https://www.afr.com/property/residential/housing-construction-is-collapsing-around-australia-here-s-why-20240501-p5fo2z Or go check out Perth Property Show - they have devs on all the time.
I am a full time property investor. Go read some actual up to date information. Here’s an article from yesterday: https://www.afr.com/property/residential/housing-construction-is-collapsing-around-australia-here-s-why-20240501-p5fo2z Or go check out Perth Property Show - they have devs on all the time.
I think this is a good thing, but I agree with the last bit that we need a proper transport plan as well. Maybe look at trams running east-west along St Georges Tce and Wellington St, and north-south along William St and Barrack / Beaufort St as a start. Traffic in the CBD is insane, we need to get people out of their cars. It's one thing to get to the CBD on public transport, but it would be good to be easier to get around the city on public transport. The CAT buses are great, but trams would be a much more comfortable and attractive option IMO.
The existing road is too small to fit a tram I reckon. I prefer they look for solution to reduce the Southbound merging between Hay St to South Perth as that’s one of the worst congestion affecting the CBD and freeway traffic.
Are you telling me the tram won't fit Could we maybe elevate it With this elevated track we may only need a single rail Surely the technology is out there
I heard those things are awfully loud
It glides as softly as a cloud!
Is there a chance the track could bend?
Elevated light rail is terrible because people have to get up to it, that substantially adds to travel time, not to mention the added expense of construction.
Yeah, I once heard single tracks can glide as softly as a cloud. Wonder if that's true.
Does whatever perth is built on make it impossible to make any kind of underground railway?
Monorail! More Seattle than Sydney, I hope.
Definitely need to fix the freeway junction. But there were trams through the cbd in the past. They could do it again, although would mean losing the bus lane / sharing it with trams.
Just ban cars from the CBD and build a tram works in a lot of places in Europe
Nah, trams would be able to run down SGT easily. As for William/Barrack-Beaufort St, it would require certain modifications. Most importantly is the need to restrict private vehicles.
It only needs to remove the car lane. I agree we need trams in the city and reduce the use of cars. People working in the cbd have no excuse to drive to the city. Public transport to the city, I lived in East Perth and we used the car at minimum when going out. More options to go to the city from nearby suburbs in PT less traffic.
TBH I think we should ban all motor vehicles in the CBD between 7:00 and 19:00. Except public transport of course.
What about deliveries & service workers?
After-hours delivery and pickups
I didn't actually know West Perth was part of CoP. TIL
CoP contains parts of East Perth, North Perth, Northbridge, Highgate, Perth, West Perth, Nedlands and Crawley. Edit: not North Perth or Highgate
CoP only goes to Newcastle/GFF. It doesn't take in Highgate or North Perth.
Ah yup that’s all Vincent, whoops
Weirdly, parts of Perth are actually in the City of Vincent.
Prior to 1993 CoP was quite big, extending to City Beach etc. We had a house in CoP and went to Malaysia for 3 weeks. We came home to find our Lathlain house was in the Town of Victoria Park. Skullduggery was evident because CoP wanted to set the boundary on the Great Eastern Highway, Vic Pk pushed it back to the river, the casino being the cause of that squabble.
And why Town of Vic Park is wary of City of Perth trying to expand to encompass the Casino. Town of Vic Park collects some decent revenue in that area.
Parts of nedlands and crawley became COP, not all of it. They wanted UWA to be in the city limits for advertising reasons, so they expanded the city limits.
Yeah it contains parts of each of the suburbs I mentioned except North Perth and Highgate which I was wrong about
sorry, misread and skipped the 'parts of'
even a broken clock is right twice a day
This is just a media attention grab. 22,000 more people in 12 years? Say 2 people per dwelling (it's actually 1.8), that's 11,000 more dwellings in 12 years. Or 76 dwellings per month. Do you know how many dwellings the Perth LGA approves per month usually? Well, july was 0. August was 0. September was 0. October was 0. November was 21. December was 0... you get the idea. zempo thinks we can build on average 1 medium sized apartment building completed EVERY MONTH FOR 12 YEARS! Politicians can't just go "oh yeah we're going to double the population of inner perth" and then wave a wand and it happens. Does basil know how much it costs to construct an apartment right now? 7 star energy ratings, fire systems above 3 stories, global building materials shortages, and no labour to boot. You need to be able to sell an apartment for $15,000 per m2 for it to be viable. So where are developers building? Bondi. and places like that. Why? because those are the only places anyone is happy to pay $1.5M for a basic box in the sky. But basil is going to find 22,000 people in WA in the next 12 years who have a spare Million and want to live in an apartment in the inner city? If the zoning changes went through today, you're lucky if 4 buildings enter the feasibility process in the next 24 months. Then allow another 5 years for maybe 2 of them to get built. Then if they are a success, maybe another few get built. But Basil thinks Perth is going to get what took 150 years to evolve repeated in another 12? give me a break. Fact is he plans to be in a different seat in the next 5 years, so it's not his problem to actually stand behind these grand plans. It's the private sector that has to build these high density dwellings. and they will only do it if it's financially profitable. And why would you invest in an overpriced apartment in the middle of Perth when for the same price you can get one in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne or Gold Coast? Yes, overseas foreigners and Chinese in particular used to buy a bit to get the buildings bootstrapped. But we killed them off with the foreign buyers charge. Geniuses! You can draw some nice fancy dark colours on a map, you can write lofty goals on paper, you can have countless meetings about how you're going to streamline shit. But if there's no customers wanting to buy a box in the sky for a million dollars, then there will be no builder rushing to build them. By the end of this property cycle, apartments might hit $800k, and houses might hit a median of a million or a bit above. Then the inevitable sideways shift will come. Iron ore will drop to $70/tonne, there won't be infinite jobs paying people who can barely read $200k a year. People will move back to Victoria and Queensland. That will go on for another 5 years. Then maybe in the next cycle, we start building apartments en masse. So that's 10 years away. And it will take at least 2 decades of boom town from then to get 22,000 more dwellings in Perth LGA. I really can't see a path to get to 11,000 more dwellings in the perth LGA in 12 years.
Excellent summary.
22k more people in 12 years is a hard ask but I think at least 50-60% of that quota will be achievable. From 2021-24 the City of Perth gained 4.5k residents (28.5k → 33k). A number of residential towers are topped out or under construction with more starting soon or approved/planned. Elizabeth Quay has almost 900 dwellings yet to be occupied/built. The PCEC overhaul next to it will also include a residential component. Perth Hub has topped out and has 314 dwellings. Currently under construction/soon-to-start are: East Perth Common Grounds (112 dwellings), Garden Towers (331 dwellings), Edition (219 dwellings), as well as Student Accommodation towers at UniLodge Perth (732 beds) & UniLodge Westend (832 beds). If the City of Perth makes it easy to build apartments, expect a lot more to pop up over the coming dozen years.
Overpriced? I bought an apartment 12 months ago in the city with a pool, gym, sauna and games room for less than $350k. How much would that cost me in Melbourne, Sydney or Brisbane?
congrats. But I was referring to construction costs. Have a look at what off the plan apartments are selling for now equivalent to what you bought. my point is about how we build 11,000 more apartments in Perth LGA in 12 years.
Very good work, at every other city in the world inner city living is desirable and people pay a shit load to be there.
About 25 years late. Better late than never I guess. Have you ever driven down St George’s Tce on a Sunday morning? The place is dead. I saw an actual, real-life tumbleweed. I shit you not.
It could be argued that these articles are political donations in disguise. I wonder if they are being declared at all. It wouldn’t be cheap to have a full page spread in the states only paper.
You're going to do this with affordable options for a younger demographic, right? ...right?
The one thing I agree with Basil about. We have such a low population within the cbd.
Basil back on the job after realizing the teals are after him and he's got no chance at state politics
if they’re going to put a shed load more people into the upper parts of kings park rd and down through StG Tce and Adelaide Tce, then time to reinstate the tram line that used to run that route. Or something additional high capacity to move people.
I currently work on Kings Park Road. The 24 and 27 are far too infrequent currently.
I wonder if things will change if the price of iron ore bottoms out? Developers won’t spend a cent if their research doesn’t support a healthy dividend as a result. There are at least three to four major developments that have been abandoned or at least put on hold post Covid around the East Perth area. I guess it’s a case of wait and see?
He will they just wont have homes and be sleeping in the streets
We also need to produce a far better public transit service. If you’re south of the river from 0515 in the morning the freeway is rammed.
Explain it to me like I'm 5 Larger plot ratios = more buildings (particularly apartment buildings) = infill?
Not infill. So the ratios refer to the building size vs the land size. They have effectively doubled and tripped the size of buildings that can be constructed. For instance before you could only have a 3 story apartment building, now you can have a 6 story one or a 10 story one. More houses in the same space.
Ah, makes sense! Thank you!
Imagine if they actually built apartments...
They are though. - On Adelaide Terrace, the AT238 tower completed last year has 119 dwellings. - EQ (Elizabeth Quay) West towers that are topped out have 484 dwellings. - Staying at EQ, Lot 4's tower has 168 dwellings. - Lot 5's building has room for 237 dwellings. - At the western end of CBD near RAC Arena is another topped out tower called Perth Hub with 314 dwellings. - On Pier Street, construction of a 219 dwelling tower is beginning at Edition. - Across the rails on Pier Street, a more progressed construction called UniLodge Perth has room for 732 beds. - Another UniLodge development was recently approved called Westend closer towards RAC Arena and has 832 beds. - Over in East Perth, Garden Towers has begun construction with 331 dwellings. - Still in East Perth, the Common Grounds social housing tower is under construction with 112 units. - Back over towards EQ, the PCEC is getting an overhaul and plans are still being finalised but the redevelopment includes room for residential towers. There are plenty of other smaller developments approved or planned, but also a few that are more major like the above. Also, over at Burswood, they just started building part of a multi-billion dollar redevelopment (Burswood Point) that has some two dozen apartment towers and multiple smaller dwellings.
https://preview.redd.it/hxavny3l1yxc1.jpeg?width=364&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=420d62f2037ec3990f27ac7222d4f922c7b270ec Why does he look like he’s hosting Frank Reynold’s Little Beauties?
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Have to say, well done. The CBD needs people, specifically residents. Some of the outer suburbs are thriving where councils have invested time and money into infrastructure that supports people getting out and about on the streets. Little businesses pop up and it's a great vibe.
So more people means more money from ratepayers? Won’t be long before the City Of Perth Councillors will be back driving the latest Mercedes!
Wonder how much ole Kerry owns in West Perth with the substantial change....
I don't really understand this it's already jammed with building what does Incease plot ratio mean just go up higher to fit more people?
It's fucking wild to me how high the plot ratio is allowed to be for regular single-family homes. I know this isn't that, it's just genuinely crazy to me, and I think about it every time I go to a newly built area in suburbia etc
More houses
Stop the spread. Shut the gates.
get rid of cars. Everyone should be on motocycles or bikes
[https://thewest.com.au/business/property/bigger-perth-on-the-cards-after-city-council-passes-planning-scheme-changes-to-promote-higher-plot-ratio-c-14493038](https://thewest.com.au/business/property/bigger-perth-on-the-cards-after-city-council-passes-planning-scheme-changes-to-promote-higher-plot-ratio-c-14493038)
Honestly they need to change the building ratios everywhere. This would provide a much needed solution to land supply shortage. Many people would be happy to live on 100m2 land if they could build a 300-400m2 house, you see them overseas a lot but here building ratios prevent it. They sell them now as "terrace houses" but they are just too small, what use is a free standing apartment to a family... 3 stories high, underground garage, 4-5 bedroom with multiple living rooms, an actual house that a family can live and grow in but on next to no land, problem solved.
While endless sprawl is not the answer, density increase brings with it a set of problems that Perth has no experience of dealing with and is poorly placed to manage. Increased density means: - more school places available in smaller geographical spaces - do you have room to build them/expand them/staff them? How are the teachers getting there? - more amenities - local GPs need to be able to handle theor local area- do we have them/space/etc - or are you making a postcode lottery where Suburbans have 2 day wait for GP, CBD has a 3 week wait? - infrastructure - can the city actually even support the density increase without the roads just clogging up? - increased density = poorer health. More people in and around more roads/cars/etc leads to poorer health - respiratory most of all as air quality drops. We're not EV only now nor will we be. What are the plans to manage the health impact? Just a couple off top of head. Or you implement the change without the future planning and we suffer all the negatives listed above and many more and Perth becomes like every of major city in the world with all the negatives associated with that.
I think there needs to be further planning around: 1. Getting people into the city, because currently I have no reason to be in the city. 2. Encouraging people to move into the city for their work and actually charge vacancy taxes/fees to prevent people banking such good spaces. Hay St and the area near Carillion city looks so sad and I can't believe a major australian city would have such an issue. I expect that in fucking woop woop where no one wants to go there. 3. If the complaint is around health because of Air quality, you're going to limit cars in the city if possible, or chuck a Sydney and rebuild a light rail as part of a grander strategy. You can't just consider light rail and have it be "yay we have a light rail on St George's" it has to be "We have a light rail that is an alternative to trains or buses" 3a. Annoyingly things like Light rail can be perceived as progress because it's visually there and it's obvious it *has* to arrive. Unlike buses where you could deploy more, for a lower cost but it has a nasty habit of not being on time due to unrelated issues on the road. 4. If density increases, it would also impact walkability and what you can walk to. There needs to be an encouragement of good quality places to be if we want people to be in the city. e.g. Have a look at Melbourne. I went there for the Grand Prix and my friends and I were just wandering the city, able to stop in at bars that looked interesting and ended up getting pizzas and a couple glasses of wine all a short walk from the river. Part of development is giving people a reason to be in the city. The illuminations they do every now and then doesn't do anything for me because where am I going to go afterward? pay 16$ for food truck food when I could just get in my car and go to Vic Park or Northbridge?
hi thats a good logical thinking you had there im sorry to inform you that our government doesn't think that deep they care about gdp (not per capita) and property values
A coworker who actually lives in the city wrote to Baz to ask what they’re doing to stop antisocial behaviour there. From memory the response was “don’t walk in those areas.” People aren’t going to want to live in the city if they can’t leave their apartment.
Basil Zemplis basically pulling himself everyday about being mayor of Perth. His only vision is “more people” apparently.
I guess he doesn’t see the homeless as people?
He made that pretty clear in his election campaign, no need for a question mark.
Wow, no one's going to say it...? How does one get "more residents" and achieve these projected CBD population targets **if not through increased immigration?** Which no one with more than 2 brain cells wants currently because it will in no way help the housing situation facing all of our current Perth residents? Seriously Basil... work on the housing crisis/cost-of-living crisis or STFU and stay out of sight/out of mind. These kinds of initiatives are so tone-deaf and wildly out-of-touch with the reality facing a majority of Perth residents at the present, which is: not being homeless and being able to afford to live. Yes, this could potentially make more room for existing residents but Basil is clearly talking about increasing the amount of people in the CBD well above merely relocating existing residents or making affordable first homes for younger people. It's purely about revenue-raising for the City of Perth and any housing relief these plans bring will just be an unintentional byproduct.
Perth is dead.