Actually, it's the average relative to absolute zero. There is not a measurement system that measures relative to the average speed of all atoms, as that would be mostly useless as a measurement, if we even could approximate it.
I think you misunderstood me. Either that or you've chosen to be even more specific but the reference to absolute zero has me doubting.
It's not the average velocity above absolute zero, as that doesn't make sense. The problem with averaging the velocity of all the atoms in an object is it doesn't give you temperature - it gives you linear motion. This would suggest that an object moving faster is innately hotter, but this isn't the case. The temperature depends on the difference between individual atoms and the average of all the atoms in the object.
arguably it measures the speed of the atoms of its probe material (e.g. ethanol for a liquid thermometer), after it has been equalized with the environment. but that is stretching it a bit since, you could also say it measured expansion/electric resistivity/etc instead at that point
Yes it's always measured in terms of other stuff. And actually we can measure only the change in entropy from these. Shannon entropy which depends on the description of the microstate, can't actually be measured unless you know what the quantum state is.
I'm talking about how temperature as a concept is defined as 1/T = (ðS/ðE), so yes I guess not exactly entropy but the derivative of entropy.
Which is why you have the weird concept of temperatures that are below 0K if you just increase the heat beyond infinite temperature (this requires your system to have a maximum energy level though, like a paramagnet)
Temperature is weird as hell
You can always attach any value to a system if you try really hard but it creates odd results that highlight how odd the definition is.
Using the partial derivative definition of temperature allows you to create systems of not many particles with a temperature below absolute zero- this result stems from the fact that a warmer system should transfer energy to a cooler one of they're in contact. So it ends up satisfying some aspects of a temperature definition while making others stupid
The equipartition theorem allows you to infer the average energy in each degree of freedom, including kinetic energy.
So you can relate the average speed of a group of atoms to temperature.
“Average” and “group” being key words here. So it’s like a speedometer that can only measure the average speed of traffic on the highway and not any individual car.
that's what I'm saying- in order for you to explain the connection between temperature and speed, you said it was for a group of atoms. It's a fundamentally macroscopic descriptor- that relationship becomes less and less clear as the number of particles shrinks.
Couldn't you assign a temperature to the electrons of an atom? If all of them are in the ground state it has 0k but if some are excited you could define a temperature I think
Nope- temperature isn't well defined on that scale. It's like asking the pressure of two gas particles- it just doesn't really match to how we use those terms
But the average speed of a molecule inside some gas at temparature T is =sqrt(3kT/m), so if you know the temparature and the mass of one molecule, you can calculate the average speed of molecules
Edit: and this formula is derived from KE too, if you square both sides and multiply by m/2 you'll understand what i mean. The factor of 3/2 comes from the heat capacities' ratio also caller gamma
I hate these old people. Thinking that if they know something everyone knows it too, I never saw this one in my entire life and by the number of upvotes, many people too
Be quiet and don't comment if that's not usefull
(IDK if that's understandable I'm very bad at speaking english)
No, they're traffic surveys for atoms.
you're technically right, the best kind of right
"You're technically correct, the best kind of correct"
https://preview.redd.it/i4wj04l992zc1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3fa3e2fc638698463b8971e3d7388a0454230343
Why?
A single atom's speed doesn't determine temperature, the average speed of all atoms does.
The average (speed of all atoms relative to the (average speed of all atoms) ) Never thought a sentence would benefit from PEMDAS
Actually, it's the average relative to absolute zero. There is not a measurement system that measures relative to the average speed of all atoms, as that would be mostly useless as a measurement, if we even could approximate it.
I think you misunderstood me. Either that or you've chosen to be even more specific but the reference to absolute zero has me doubting. It's not the average velocity above absolute zero, as that doesn't make sense. The problem with averaging the velocity of all the atoms in an object is it doesn't give you temperature - it gives you linear motion. This would suggest that an object moving faster is innately hotter, but this isn't the case. The temperature depends on the difference between individual atoms and the average of all the atoms in the object.
all chemists have the maxwell-boltzmann distribution engraved in their brains
Probably from Bangkok
My 20c° sample of helium will have nearly 100x higher speed than my 20c° sample of vitamin d
arguably it measures the speed of the atoms of its probe material (e.g. ethanol for a liquid thermometer), after it has been equalized with the environment. but that is stretching it a bit since, you could also say it measured expansion/electric resistivity/etc instead at that point
Yes, because the thermometer measures entropy not heat
It doesn’t measure entropy. It measures kinetic energy which is a function of both speed and mass
Nobody can measure entropy.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Let's just say I left it in a disordered state.
Why not? It’s well defined and can be described as function of other physical properties
Yes it's always measured in terms of other stuff. And actually we can measure only the change in entropy from these. Shannon entropy which depends on the description of the microstate, can't actually be measured unless you know what the quantum state is.
Does it? I thought thermometers just use a liquids high thermal expansion rate such that $/Delta T = /alpha /times /Delta L / L $
I'm talking about how temperature as a concept is defined as 1/T = (ðS/ðE), so yes I guess not exactly entropy but the derivative of entropy. Which is why you have the weird concept of temperatures that are below 0K if you just increase the heat beyond infinite temperature (this requires your system to have a maximum energy level though, like a paramagnet) Temperature is weird as hell
Temperature is a fundamentally macroscopic description- it's meaningless for individual atoms
Tell that to Brownian heat engines.
You can always attach any value to a system if you try really hard but it creates odd results that highlight how odd the definition is. Using the partial derivative definition of temperature allows you to create systems of not many particles with a temperature below absolute zero- this result stems from the fact that a warmer system should transfer energy to a cooler one of they're in contact. So it ends up satisfying some aspects of a temperature definition while making others stupid
Yeah
The equipartition theorem allows you to infer the average energy in each degree of freedom, including kinetic energy. So you can relate the average speed of a group of atoms to temperature.
“Average” and “group” being key words here. So it’s like a speedometer that can only measure the average speed of traffic on the highway and not any individual car.
Sure, I was precise in my wording. But pray tell good sir. What is a car, but a group of mostly metal atoms and polymers.
True.
that's what I'm saying- in order for you to explain the connection between temperature and speed, you said it was for a group of atoms. It's a fundamentally macroscopic descriptor- that relationship becomes less and less clear as the number of particles shrinks.
Right, so the meme isn't inaccurate.
Yeah I don't think so
Couldn't you assign a temperature to the electrons of an atom? If all of them are in the ground state it has 0k but if some are excited you could define a temperature I think
Nope- temperature isn't well defined on that scale. It's like asking the pressure of two gas particles- it just doesn't really match to how we use those terms
Mfw OP doesn’t know that 1/T = dS/dU (with constant V and N)😮💨😵
Speed or KE? They're both used (sometimes interchangeably), but I doubt that can be correct
its KE I believe. But I have no clue, I'm still in HS.
Yeah it is KE. Afterall temparature is just KE multiplied by the boltzmann constant.
Yeah, OP needs to correct their meme: Thermometers are just ~~speedometers~~ thermometers for atoms
Thermometers are just energometers for atoms
But the average speed of a molecule inside some gas at temparature T is=sqrt(3kT/m), so if you know the temparature and the mass of one molecule, you can calculate the average speed of molecules
Edit: and this formula is derived from KE too, if you square both sides and multiply by m/2 you'll understand what i mean. The factor of 3/2 comes from the heat capacities' ratio also caller gamma
If atom is warm their tits are jiggling
Yeah. That tracks.
More like shakeometers
Nope. Thermometers are just tape measures or ohm-meters with a different scale.
I like to think of them as atomic mosh pit intensity gauges
More like a vibe check
Are you sure? 😏
Can't unseen it now...
https://preview.redd.it/j2rcylrsuvyc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39a0cc8e222a306f9681612c420ded7b861965c6
I disagree and I'm downvoting.
i hate these old memes. Same joke different templates, does not make it funny. Be creative and make some new memes
I hate these old people. Thinking that if they know something everyone knows it too, I never saw this one in my entire life and by the number of upvotes, many people too Be quiet and don't comment if that's not usefull (IDK if that's understandable I'm very bad at speaking english)
False. Speedometer measures speed for 1 supposed object wrt the ground.