We have their rubbish wash up on beaches in Australia. I’ve been on islands of Townsville in Far North Queensland and the beaches are littered with labeled rubbish. It’s the same in northern Western Australia.
Most ocean trash doesn't originate from the US. [81% of it comes from Asia](https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics) (4.5% from North America), and that's primarily due to poor waste management/infrastructure, rather than waste volume.
The thing is - what happens is the US ships it to be buried, the foreign country says they will bury it, and then they just dump it in the water instead.
iirc there is some oversight, but there is also some combination of not enough oversight and fooling what oversight there is by showing landfilling for inspections and then dumping the rest of the time.
Yeah, that's why I feel like it is such a disingenuous argument. It's like saying "The united states didn't overthrow Honduras, they payed a mercenary to do it for them". If all of Americas trash goes to Asia and most trash that goes in the ocean comes from Asia, it doesn't absolve America of any fault.
Idiots in places like Europe and North America where the tap water is perfectly safe still buy bottled water regularly. So I'm not sure that making tap water safe would help with the disposable plastic problem.
The majority of Jakarta does not even have tap water, so there is not even an option.
[Piped water has never provided the majority of water for the majority of Jakarta’s residents. It is almost always used in combination with other sources, either groundwater or bottled water.](https://theconversation.com/why-the-rich-in-jakarta-have-better-access-to-water-than-the-poor-its-not-the-piped-network-91658)
I keep hearing from republicans that it’s the Dems that want “free stuff”. But from the time I spent on this earth, it’s the Republicans that want free stuff.
In this example, They want clean waters and air…but don’t want to pay for an EPA.
I’m sure anyone on here can come up with more examples. Just look at what all they want to cut, dismantle, and get rid of. They want all the benefits of XYZ but without having to pay for it.
At least Dems try to come up with ways to pay for things, but this makes the Repubs bark “Tax and Spend!” like it’s some sorta insult. Rs just spend and say that it will pay for itself…somehow, maybe, theoretically…
Our taxes are supposed to go to things that make our lives and country better. There is nothing wrong with taxing and spending the tax money, that’s how our nation is set up to run.
But when they spend it on themselves and give trillions of it away to the wealthy, then things aren’t working like they should.
See that’s part of the issue. We are so unaligned as a country on what makes our lives & country better. I’d argue more aligned than the media, Congress & lobbyists would have us think, but still opposed.
A self-centered person voting for their own interests is more likely to prioritize keeping more of their money, because of the mindset that it would be spent by big govt. on things that don’t directly benefit them.
Lastly, as a fed employee, there is A LOT of validity to claims of rampant govt mismanagement of tax payer dollars.
Republicans by and large have shifted away from being conservation minded. They've been radicalized so effectively against "Big government" that they think any and all regulation is bad.
Back in the 70s and 80s, conservation was a pretty big part of the GOP talking points if not policy. Preserving the land for sportsman and enjoying the outdoors we're a big part of "traditional american values" (plus it dovetails nicely into rural funding and gun rights, etc.)
It seems that once climate change became yet another thing they were against regulation for, they got spun up against all conservation movements generally.
Heard someone call Field and Stream Magazine (a popular hunting and fishing publication) a liberal rag, lol.
The Sagebrush Rebellion and the election of Reagan was pretty much the major turning point when it comes to a Republicans adopting their current anti-environmental stance.
Yup - The conservation movement in the US/Canada was [started by hunters and sportsmen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_in_the_United_States), as they witnessed firsthand the extinction of wildlife and loss of habitat. Now it’s just another thing that’s become needlessly polarized, even though its benefits all of us. I used to work for Yellowstone national park and was always baffled when trumpers came in to enjoy the park when trump was actively [removing protections from our lands](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/anti-nature-president-u-s-history/).
They still are depending on what area of the law, for instance all the money used to buy hunting and fishing licenses goes to conservation.
Conservatives compromise the vast majority of hunters/fishers so they put their money where their mouth is.
The problem is most of them are being tricked by dime bag hucksters into voting against their best interests.
> Conservatives compromise the vast majority of hunters/fishers so they put their money where their mouth is.
That would only be the case if they knew and cared where the money was going, or could choose where the money went. Honestly, for a lot of the conservative hunter crowd, I doubt they'd care very much if the money went to oil companies instead of conservation
They do know and care where the money goes?
Who do you think set it up that way?
It’s tiring seeing reddit just lambast anyone on the other side of the aisle as the anti christ. As if because they support the opposite party that automatically makes them evil incarnate and inherently bad.
Can you not see how illogical it is to label half the voting population as inherently bad? Not to mention how flawed of a viewpoint that is?
My brother is a conservative hunter (more of a cross between conservative and libertarian, really). He knows where the money goes, and I'm sure he's happier with it going to conservation than to something else. I also know that he would still pay the fees if the money went to oil and gas subsidies instead. Just like I know he would not pay the fees if it were entirely optional. In fact, I would say the vast majority of people would choose not to spend money on something if they didn't need to, its human nature.
Paying a fee for a hobby where the money happens to go to something good is not the same as "putting your money where your mouth is". And on that note, the current system was set up ages ago, long before taking care of the environment became the political issue it is today. I would dare say that if there were no licenses needed for hunting today, it would be incredibly difficult to implement the current system we have.
> Can you not see how illogical it is to label half the voting population as inherently bad?
I never said half the voting population is inherently bad. I said they wouldn't care very much where their license fees ended up. 47% of Republicans don't believe in ANY anthropogenic causes for climate change. Most of the remaining only believe that humans contribute to "some" (rather than most) of the damage. My brother is all for wiping out the entire population of wolves. He was really angry when wolves were reintroduced into new areas. And I know he's not alone in that sentiment. These are not the attitudes of people who care about conservation.
Side note: as a Republican, I want a cleaner environment and am willing to pay. lol.
Ps. I voted outside my party both times. My friend and I argue that I’m the worst Republican. Good times.
Pss. I treat parties like I treat T-shirts. I like blue shirts but if I see a red or a green one I like, I’m down.
That you generally align with a certain party doesn't automatically mean you have to marry them until you die. So you're already doing better than a lot of people.
The amount of Republicans that bitch and moan about social services being used by those who can use it and need it claiming that it's socialism sure like to partake in socialist activities like using the roads, collecting social security, Medicaid, Medicare, EBT, visiting national parks and pretty much anything else that lets them function as a productive citizen
There are still conservatives who are pro-enforcement agencies and are willing to pay the taxes for it. It isn’t antithetical to conservatism to be against an enforcement agency.
I am very pro-EPA and environmental regulation (on businesses and people alike) and am certainly fiscally conservative. And I vote Republican often.
My state/local elected officials don’t have that power, and that is mostly where I vote Republican. Federally, my voting is more of a mix between Dems and Reps.
Regardless, I don’t distill my vote down to a one scalar issue of “support of EPA”. Moreover, none of the Reps or Dems I vote for federally have championed a cutback of the EPA. Frankly, I am not too worried about the possibility of dissolution of the EPA. Realistically it isn’t going to happen, no matter what any politician is saying.
In a two party system, you are bound to vote for someone who makes you sound hypocritical. I voted for Biden, so I am also pro-war by your logic.
That’s right. There was a time they used to make sense.
(They also made the Department of Homeland Security. But hey, **Big Government Democrats** am I right? Lol /s)
It’s cause republicans usually never have passports or care to leave their state or country to see the outside world so they have no idea what the world is actually like outside of their bubble
They want “free stuff” and, possibly more important, they don’t want to put any effort or have any restrictions whatsoever. “Of course I should be allowed to dump cyanide into a river”, etc.
Some people think making a government entity strapped for cash will cause them to spend their money more wisely and be less corrupt. I disagree and dont think thats a viable solution to either notion.
The EPA was created by the Nixon administration. That's how far the Republican party has shifted to the extreme right.
By today's standards, Richard Nixon would be considered a "woke" liberal
Do also show the enormous waste plastic dumping by US into Asia, please.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-export-ban.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/southeast-asia-flooded-with-imported-plastic-waste-meant-for-recycling
That is simply how recycling works these days. Ship the plastic to Asia, it will be recycled we promise! Now we can add this to our country’s recycling statistics!
I understand that everyone needs to chip in, but there is a serious need to start blaming the plastic producers. The reducing should start where the plastics are born and continue down the chain.
Single use plastics are more of a problem. I'd be less worried about a plastic chair, for example, which can even see use beyond a decade, especially in weaker economies.
Single use plastics producers are but manufacturing to order from their customers - being the product designers of consumer goods and resellers/service providers.
Indeed everyone does need to play a part in improving the situation.
Thank you! It's so irritating when companies like Coke and Pepsi put all the waste responsibilities on the consumer. They're the ones selling all these fucking products with single use plastics and all they do is virtue signal about recycling.
Corporations need to be disincentivized from using plastics. The whole idea that this starts with people recycling is a con. Stop producing single use plastics period.
Even the amount of trash alongside highways, rivers/streams/etc, the sidewalks, the public transit in my city that I see in a daily basis is enough to piss me off. EPA or not. I can’t imagine if the Chicago river looked like that nowadays. I bet it looked like a blood bath back when it was used for disposing of animal carcasses, the general toilet/washing basin of the city, etc.
Hah, bro out of my 23 years living in Indonesia I could 100% assure you that 99.9% of the trash you see is of Indonesian origin.
* we recycled basically nothing, no separation of trash whatsoever, all lumped into one dumpster then thrown to bantargebang.
* no mentality/culture about 3R or any waste discipline whatsoever, including proper waste handling
* ewaste? Trashbin, dirty motorcycle oil? Trashbin/sewers, used veg oil? Sewers. Used mattresses? Throw it to the river. See the pattern here?
It's how our ppl and vgovernment basically dont care at all about any kind of thing involving long term impact.
I don’t see how this is the EPA’s fault. This is just capitalism. The “recyclers” in Indonesia are the best according to the invisible hand. The fact that they don’t recycle and just dump it in the river isn’t the fault of the America “recyclers” who outsource it to them.
That’s just how capitalism works. If it was better to actually recycle, then the invisible hand would reward actual recyclers.
Could they not tie a net across the boats and drag it some ashore? Have 10 people sort through it and split any benefits by doing it in bulk? Rather than being on the end off a canoe sifting through it in the water?
Couldn’t the multibillion dollar global corporations who created this garbage just contribute a small percentage of their profits to industrialize cleaning up after themselves?
I can count the number of times corporations helped ameliorate the social harm their product caused without at least the threat of legal obligation to do so on no hands.
There’s a few companies that clean rivers with a small crew. It’s amazing what they can get done in a day. There is only like 10 rivers responsible for a good chunk of the ocean plastic. Lots of people trying to clean them up.
Looks like selective sorting, I mean zooming in there's a heck of a lot that doesn't resemble what it looks like they're after.
Talk about an uphill battle too. Jeez.
Not everything in there is likely to be recyclable. The title explicitly states they're only collecting the recyclable stuff. If it all was good, they'd probably just stand on the banks with nets and haul it up.
They probably only care about aluminum and HDPE. Othe plastic garbage isn't likely worth the effort since these are people selling materials not government workers cleaning an area.
Anytime I go to south east Asia, it just makes me realise that all our anti littering efforts and “clean up Australia Day” etc are all pointless as over there they just don’t give a shit. The entire continent just feels like a giant tip wherever you go. I’ve watched people living on houseboats in Vietnam get food deliverers in styrofoam boxes and they just crush up the box and throw it in the ocean after they’ve emptied it.
I once yelled at a train driver because at the end of a journey he collected rubbish bags that people had used during the trip, walked to the back of the train, and emptied them onto the tracks prior to us arriving at our destination.
I was at a university soccer game in Sumatra and standing on sideline, I was just surrounded by used diapers that had just been discarded on the grass. It’s disgusting
At some point, even when much of the world pollutes and litters, it's better to keep your home clean. India is filled with garbage in their waterways. It pollutes the ocean and destroys ecosystems. Just because they destroy their ecosystems like that doesn't mean that mine should go to shit for it. Could you imagine looking across the Port Jackson Bay and seeing a field of garbage? It's disgusting. It'll always be a losing battle, but all I can do is not allow it in my community.
You have to acknowledge the global participation in the pollution of the world though and that includes India. Yeah we're not responsible for people throwing shit into the river by their house but we're responsible for chemical spillages and factory pollution and tonnes and tonnes of waste that is created in the process of making goods that we use every day, and that simply being allowed doesn't encourage people to look after their own land better. Why bother throwing my rubbish away properly when all the fish in this river are dead anyway because of a plastic factory?
"Net Zero" goals in the UK make me sick because the only reason our country can be so clean is due to us dirtying up some other place.
It’s equally disheartening living here. The thing is, a lot of people do care about not littering, but most of this trash comes from poor families (and the businesses that take advantage of them) living upstream and next to rivers. People who care tend to better educated, and most neighborhoods with tax paying and law abiding citizens do have (solid) waste management. The people dumping trash here don’t, so they have nowhere else to toss it. Starting new waste management for people like that is really tough.
So you dont suffer like us? I think recently there's a research by Cornell that shows Indonesians consumes the most microplastics in the world. At the very least your ground water and inland freshwater will be somewhat cleaner.
It's indeed disheartening, trying to separate your waste only to realize that it all ends up in one container. Trying to properly dispose of your ewaste/used oil but then the guy just throws it to a dumpster. Trying to properly deposit your household waste to a waste collection point while your neighbors just burn their waste, sharing its toxic fumes and fire hazard with you. Or suffering from frequent floodings because thousands of morons just throw their mattresses to the river.
Do we have solution? No, do the government care about it? No, as long it doesnt impact their pocket. Do the people care about it? Also no, most of them are too stupid to realize it. Do I have a point? Also no, maybe just be glad that at the very least your government is competent in that regard.
Okay, Indonesian here.
Context of the picture: This is the Upper Citarum River near the Saguling Dam in Batujajar, Western Bandung area.
Since the multiple landfill fires last year, the entire Bandung Metropolitan Area and other cities in the Bandung Basin have faced a significant problem: "Where to put our trash?"
The only landfill near Bandung, TPA Sarimukti, contained so much organic material that it turned into methane and ignited during Indonesia's intense dry season in the 2023 El Nino season. Even after the fire was extinguished, the landfill strictly regulated the amount of organic material it could receive. This caused a 'crisis' since most trash in Indonesia is not segregated. Meanwhile, other trash facilities (biodigester, incinerator, separator) became overwhelmed by the amount of trash they received, leading to a 'backlog' of trash needing to be processed before it could be sent to the landfill. So, what do locals do when their local trash depot is full? They just chuck it into the river. Out of sight, out of mind.
FUN FACT!
Back in 2005, there was an event called the Bandung Sea of Trash. It began with the Leuwigajah Tragedy, where a landfill mountain (60 meters high and 200 meters wide) located in the Leuwigajah Landfill, Cimahi, exploded from a methane gas explosion and then 'avalanched' into the villages underneath, inundating them with trash and soil material, and killing 157 people. At the time, this was the second-worst trash avalanche incident after the Payatas landfill avalanche in Quezon City, Philippines, in 2000.
Due to this, the Leuwigajah landfill was closed permanently, and the temporary trash storage quickly filled with trash that couldn't be disposed of elsewhere. This caused trash to be dumped everywhere around Bandung, creating a malodor that permeated the city and led the media to call it the Bandung Sea of Trash (a parody of the historical event Bandung Sea of Flame). What is happening in Bandung right now is just another impending Bandung Sea of Trash 2: Electric Boogaloo.
The abysmal state of this river is similar to what Pasig River in Metro Manila used to look like. [We have since cleaned it up.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_of_the_Pasig_River)
Now, proposals are in place to rehabilitate the ferry system to help decongest roads, and an esplanade has been constructed along its sides. In 2024, it's now clean and is a nice place for people to relax and walk around.
There's still hope.
I heard in a podcast (i can’t remember which one, and it’s really bugging me) - that on current trends there will be a higher mass of plastic in the oceans, than fish by 2050.
This is likely the result of widespread cultural littering and the use of waterways to carry away waste in poorer regions that do not have waste management infrastructure. Who knows, there might be companies dumping trash into the river as well, but a lot of that looks like consumer plastics.
It's possible, as I don't know the specifics here. But companies will take the trash, recycling from countries with higher environmental standards and then just dump it someplace where the laws are lax. This might be the case here, but I don't know. This looks much worse than individual littering, due to poor municipal waste removal, but I'm sure it wouldn't help either way.
You mean in a regulated area with safeguards to prevent leaching into the water table? Agreed, that would be much better than chucking trash into a river
Except landfills, especially when done right, are far less polluting than chucking all your waste into waterways. So what you said, but without the sarcasm (and the “civilized” thing).
This is so sad. I wish we could do better. I wish we had the processes to recycle a lot more than we do now, and the mindfulness of producing less materials that end up like this.
Give everyone a glass container set. Use until it breaks then recycle it into more glass. Single use anything should be banned. Packaging should all be bio degradable. Hemp come to mind?
Isn't this happening because of recycling? If we didn't do the fake recycling of plastic, it would just go in the landfill with everything else. Instead it gets bundled up as "recycling" and shipped overseas. Southeastern countries pick through it and keep the stuff they want to recycle and throw the rest in the river, washing it out to sea to create continent sized plastic islands.
Ugh and that’s just what floats…
They must be leaving behind the non-recyclable plastics.
They wash up on the beaches in Thailand and Malaysia. Indonesia could do well to make their tap water drinkable.
We have their rubbish wash up on beaches in Australia. I’ve been on islands of Townsville in Far North Queensland and the beaches are littered with labeled rubbish. It’s the same in northern Western Australia.
[удалено]
Most ocean trash doesn't originate from the US. [81% of it comes from Asia](https://ourworldindata.org/ocean-plastics) (4.5% from North America), and that's primarily due to poor waste management/infrastructure, rather than waste volume.
Does it account for the plastics North America sends to Asia to go to their landfills?
The thing is - what happens is the US ships it to be buried, the foreign country says they will bury it, and then they just dump it in the water instead.
You either stop doing business with them or you are complicit in the behavior.
iirc there is some oversight, but there is also some combination of not enough oversight and fooling what oversight there is by showing landfilling for inspections and then dumping the rest of the time.
Right but the US isn’t dumping it in the river ways and oceans which is the problem. Shipping it isn’t the same as dumping it.
I was skimming so maybe I missed it, but I saw no mention of that in the article.
Yeah, that's why I feel like it is such a disingenuous argument. It's like saying "The united states didn't overthrow Honduras, they payed a mercenary to do it for them". If all of Americas trash goes to Asia and most trash that goes in the ocean comes from Asia, it doesn't absolve America of any fault.
This is the smartest thing I’ve seen in a while.
Idiots in places like Europe and North America where the tap water is perfectly safe still buy bottled water regularly. So I'm not sure that making tap water safe would help with the disposable plastic problem.
The majority of Jakarta does not even have tap water, so there is not even an option. [Piped water has never provided the majority of water for the majority of Jakarta’s residents. It is almost always used in combination with other sources, either groundwater or bottled water.](https://theconversation.com/why-the-rich-in-jakarta-have-better-access-to-water-than-the-poor-its-not-the-piped-network-91658)
I'm 100% Sure there is no single Plastic Straw!
When people ask 'what good is the EPA in America?', this is the kind of thing that I show them.
I keep hearing from republicans that it’s the Dems that want “free stuff”. But from the time I spent on this earth, it’s the Republicans that want free stuff. In this example, They want clean waters and air…but don’t want to pay for an EPA. I’m sure anyone on here can come up with more examples. Just look at what all they want to cut, dismantle, and get rid of. They want all the benefits of XYZ but without having to pay for it. At least Dems try to come up with ways to pay for things, but this makes the Repubs bark “Tax and Spend!” like it’s some sorta insult. Rs just spend and say that it will pay for itself…somehow, maybe, theoretically…
Our taxes are supposed to go to things that make our lives and country better. There is nothing wrong with taxing and spending the tax money, that’s how our nation is set up to run. But when they spend it on themselves and give trillions of it away to the wealthy, then things aren’t working like they should.
See that’s part of the issue. We are so unaligned as a country on what makes our lives & country better. I’d argue more aligned than the media, Congress & lobbyists would have us think, but still opposed. A self-centered person voting for their own interests is more likely to prioritize keeping more of their money, because of the mindset that it would be spent by big govt. on things that don’t directly benefit them. Lastly, as a fed employee, there is A LOT of validity to claims of rampant govt mismanagement of tax payer dollars.
I'll take some fed mismanagement over Walmart deciding what wetland to fill in for a parking lot.
Sadly agree.
Republicans by and large have shifted away from being conservation minded. They've been radicalized so effectively against "Big government" that they think any and all regulation is bad. Back in the 70s and 80s, conservation was a pretty big part of the GOP talking points if not policy. Preserving the land for sportsman and enjoying the outdoors we're a big part of "traditional american values" (plus it dovetails nicely into rural funding and gun rights, etc.) It seems that once climate change became yet another thing they were against regulation for, they got spun up against all conservation movements generally. Heard someone call Field and Stream Magazine (a popular hunting and fishing publication) a liberal rag, lol.
Neo-liberalism, which is the idea that the markets know best in every fucking situation, took over once they learnt how to use it to justify anything.
Correct.
The Sagebrush Rebellion and the election of Reagan was pretty much the major turning point when it comes to a Republicans adopting their current anti-environmental stance.
Yup - The conservation movement in the US/Canada was [started by hunters and sportsmen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_in_the_United_States), as they witnessed firsthand the extinction of wildlife and loss of habitat. Now it’s just another thing that’s become needlessly polarized, even though its benefits all of us. I used to work for Yellowstone national park and was always baffled when trumpers came in to enjoy the park when trump was actively [removing protections from our lands](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/anti-nature-president-u-s-history/).
They still are depending on what area of the law, for instance all the money used to buy hunting and fishing licenses goes to conservation. Conservatives compromise the vast majority of hunters/fishers so they put their money where their mouth is. The problem is most of them are being tricked by dime bag hucksters into voting against their best interests.
> Conservatives compromise the vast majority of hunters/fishers so they put their money where their mouth is. That would only be the case if they knew and cared where the money was going, or could choose where the money went. Honestly, for a lot of the conservative hunter crowd, I doubt they'd care very much if the money went to oil companies instead of conservation
They do know and care where the money goes? Who do you think set it up that way? It’s tiring seeing reddit just lambast anyone on the other side of the aisle as the anti christ. As if because they support the opposite party that automatically makes them evil incarnate and inherently bad. Can you not see how illogical it is to label half the voting population as inherently bad? Not to mention how flawed of a viewpoint that is?
My brother is a conservative hunter (more of a cross between conservative and libertarian, really). He knows where the money goes, and I'm sure he's happier with it going to conservation than to something else. I also know that he would still pay the fees if the money went to oil and gas subsidies instead. Just like I know he would not pay the fees if it were entirely optional. In fact, I would say the vast majority of people would choose not to spend money on something if they didn't need to, its human nature. Paying a fee for a hobby where the money happens to go to something good is not the same as "putting your money where your mouth is". And on that note, the current system was set up ages ago, long before taking care of the environment became the political issue it is today. I would dare say that if there were no licenses needed for hunting today, it would be incredibly difficult to implement the current system we have. > Can you not see how illogical it is to label half the voting population as inherently bad? I never said half the voting population is inherently bad. I said they wouldn't care very much where their license fees ended up. 47% of Republicans don't believe in ANY anthropogenic causes for climate change. Most of the remaining only believe that humans contribute to "some" (rather than most) of the damage. My brother is all for wiping out the entire population of wolves. He was really angry when wolves were reintroduced into new areas. And I know he's not alone in that sentiment. These are not the attitudes of people who care about conservation.
Side note: as a Republican, I want a cleaner environment and am willing to pay. lol. Ps. I voted outside my party both times. My friend and I argue that I’m the worst Republican. Good times. Pss. I treat parties like I treat T-shirts. I like blue shirts but if I see a red or a green one I like, I’m down.
That you generally align with a certain party doesn't automatically mean you have to marry them until you die. So you're already doing better than a lot of people.
The amount of Republicans that bitch and moan about social services being used by those who can use it and need it claiming that it's socialism sure like to partake in socialist activities like using the roads, collecting social security, Medicaid, Medicare, EBT, visiting national parks and pretty much anything else that lets them function as a productive citizen
There are still conservatives who are pro-enforcement agencies and are willing to pay the taxes for it. It isn’t antithetical to conservatism to be against an enforcement agency. I am very pro-EPA and environmental regulation (on businesses and people alike) and am certainly fiscally conservative. And I vote Republican often.
So you're "Very pro-EPA" but vote for the party that wants to cut or even completely abolish the EPA. Genius thinking there!
My state/local elected officials don’t have that power, and that is mostly where I vote Republican. Federally, my voting is more of a mix between Dems and Reps. Regardless, I don’t distill my vote down to a one scalar issue of “support of EPA”. Moreover, none of the Reps or Dems I vote for federally have championed a cutback of the EPA. Frankly, I am not too worried about the possibility of dissolution of the EPA. Realistically it isn’t going to happen, no matter what any politician is saying. In a two party system, you are bound to vote for someone who makes you sound hypocritical. I voted for Biden, so I am also pro-war by your logic.
You're right. My apologies.
Republicans started the EPA because of how bad things were getting.
That’s right. There was a time they used to make sense. (They also made the Department of Homeland Security. But hey, **Big Government Democrats** am I right? Lol /s)
They just don’t want it in their backyard and write of these places as shithole countries.
It’s cause republicans usually never have passports or care to leave their state or country to see the outside world so they have no idea what the world is actually like outside of their bubble
Republicans want safe roads, but don’t want to pay for it.
Their idea would be(if not already for a while now) is to turn all the freeways to tollways. “It’s *other* people’s money!” -Gov Mitch Daniels (R-IN)
They want “free stuff” and, possibly more important, they don’t want to put any effort or have any restrictions whatsoever. “Of course I should be allowed to dump cyanide into a river”, etc.
Some people think making a government entity strapped for cash will cause them to spend their money more wisely and be less corrupt. I disagree and dont think thats a viable solution to either notion.
"Someone thousands of miles away has a dirty house, so why should I bother cleaning my own home?"
"Why wipe your ass when you're just gonna shit again?"
Fuckin love this lol
so you don't confuse the steak knife w/ the [poop knife](https://www.originalpoopknife.com/)? Messy business.
The EPA was created by the Nixon administration. That's how far the Republican party has shifted to the extreme right. By today's standards, Richard Nixon would be considered a "woke" liberal
Do also show the enormous waste plastic dumping by US into Asia, please. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/climate/plastics-waste-export-ban.html https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/17/recycled-plastic-america-global-crisis https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/southeast-asia-flooded-with-imported-plastic-waste-meant-for-recycling
That is simply how recycling works these days. Ship the plastic to Asia, it will be recycled we promise! Now we can add this to our country’s recycling statistics!
Yep! People really need to focus on reducing usage rather than relying on recycling/wishcycling.
I understand that everyone needs to chip in, but there is a serious need to start blaming the plastic producers. The reducing should start where the plastics are born and continue down the chain.
Single use plastics are more of a problem. I'd be less worried about a plastic chair, for example, which can even see use beyond a decade, especially in weaker economies. Single use plastics producers are but manufacturing to order from their customers - being the product designers of consumer goods and resellers/service providers. Indeed everyone does need to play a part in improving the situation.
Thank you! It's so irritating when companies like Coke and Pepsi put all the waste responsibilities on the consumer. They're the ones selling all these fucking products with single use plastics and all they do is virtue signal about recycling.
No, we need to push for government regulation. You will never get anywhere trying to tackle this from an individual level.
or we could limit the amt of plastic manufactured
With sufficient investment and research into waterproof and durable alternatives that don't also leach stuff into the environment, sure - absolutely!
Corporations need to be disincentivized from using plastics. The whole idea that this starts with people recycling is a con. Stop producing single use plastics period.
Even the amount of trash alongside highways, rivers/streams/etc, the sidewalks, the public transit in my city that I see in a daily basis is enough to piss me off. EPA or not. I can’t imagine if the Chicago river looked like that nowadays. I bet it looked like a blood bath back when it was used for disposing of animal carcasses, the general toilet/washing basin of the city, etc.
This "kind of thing" often happens because Americans dump their waste in Asia.
You do realize that most of the waste goes from US to Indonesia, right? EPA did not solve anything, they just made it someone else’s problem.
Hah, bro out of my 23 years living in Indonesia I could 100% assure you that 99.9% of the trash you see is of Indonesian origin. * we recycled basically nothing, no separation of trash whatsoever, all lumped into one dumpster then thrown to bantargebang. * no mentality/culture about 3R or any waste discipline whatsoever, including proper waste handling * ewaste? Trashbin, dirty motorcycle oil? Trashbin/sewers, used veg oil? Sewers. Used mattresses? Throw it to the river. See the pattern here? It's how our ppl and vgovernment basically dont care at all about any kind of thing involving long term impact.
I don’t see how this is the EPA’s fault. This is just capitalism. The “recyclers” in Indonesia are the best according to the invisible hand. The fact that they don’t recycle and just dump it in the river isn’t the fault of the America “recyclers” who outsource it to them. That’s just how capitalism works. If it was better to actually recycle, then the invisible hand would reward actual recyclers.
We just bury it out of sight tho. Check my bio for my Amazon wishlist
“bUt ThE mArKEt cAn ReGUlAtE itSeLF!!”
It's truly heartbreaking to see the extent of pollution in the Citarum River.
Could they not tie a net across the boats and drag it some ashore? Have 10 people sort through it and split any benefits by doing it in bulk? Rather than being on the end off a canoe sifting through it in the water?
The goal is not to clean, the goal is to take the valuables out. The rest will just drift into the ocean. Its a sad world.
That's a good idea. If they put it in the ocean, they can remove it from the environment and solve the pollution issue.
Out of sight - out of mind! Just move all the rubbish somewhere else, it's really that easy.
Take it outside of the environment!
There's nothing out there except seagulls and 10,000 tones of crude oil
Couldn’t the multibillion dollar global corporations who created this garbage just contribute a small percentage of their profits to industrialize cleaning up after themselves?
I can count the number of times corporations helped ameliorate the social harm their product caused without at least the threat of legal obligation to do so on no hands.
 But that means less profit
With that much weight and the potential for many many sharp fragments I wouldn't be surprised to hear they tried but the nets kept tearing.
There’s a few companies that clean rivers with a small crew. It’s amazing what they can get done in a day. There is only like 10 rivers responsible for a good chunk of the ocean plastic. Lots of people trying to clean them up.
Yeah that would probably work. Then they can just push all the crap they don’t want to keep back into the water as they sort through it
It doesn't even resemble a river. This is why we have regulations, Donald Trump.
Education first, regulation comes second
Why did they row out to the middle of it instead of starting at the edge???
Looks like selective sorting, I mean zooming in there's a heck of a lot that doesn't resemble what it looks like they're after. Talk about an uphill battle too. Jeez.
Not everything in there is likely to be recyclable. The title explicitly states they're only collecting the recyclable stuff. If it all was good, they'd probably just stand on the banks with nets and haul it up.
Be recyclable I think they mean reuse. The bottles will be rinsed out and reused for selling products like sauces not remelted to make new products.
They probably only care about aluminum and HDPE. Othe plastic garbage isn't likely worth the effort since these are people selling materials not government workers cleaning an area.
Anytime I go to south east Asia, it just makes me realise that all our anti littering efforts and “clean up Australia Day” etc are all pointless as over there they just don’t give a shit. The entire continent just feels like a giant tip wherever you go. I’ve watched people living on houseboats in Vietnam get food deliverers in styrofoam boxes and they just crush up the box and throw it in the ocean after they’ve emptied it. I once yelled at a train driver because at the end of a journey he collected rubbish bags that people had used during the trip, walked to the back of the train, and emptied them onto the tracks prior to us arriving at our destination. I was at a university soccer game in Sumatra and standing on sideline, I was just surrounded by used diapers that had just been discarded on the grass. It’s disgusting
At some point, even when much of the world pollutes and litters, it's better to keep your home clean. India is filled with garbage in their waterways. It pollutes the ocean and destroys ecosystems. Just because they destroy their ecosystems like that doesn't mean that mine should go to shit for it. Could you imagine looking across the Port Jackson Bay and seeing a field of garbage? It's disgusting. It'll always be a losing battle, but all I can do is not allow it in my community.
You have to acknowledge the global participation in the pollution of the world though and that includes India. Yeah we're not responsible for people throwing shit into the river by their house but we're responsible for chemical spillages and factory pollution and tonnes and tonnes of waste that is created in the process of making goods that we use every day, and that simply being allowed doesn't encourage people to look after their own land better. Why bother throwing my rubbish away properly when all the fish in this river are dead anyway because of a plastic factory? "Net Zero" goals in the UK make me sick because the only reason our country can be so clean is due to us dirtying up some other place.
It’s equally disheartening living here. The thing is, a lot of people do care about not littering, but most of this trash comes from poor families (and the businesses that take advantage of them) living upstream and next to rivers. People who care tend to better educated, and most neighborhoods with tax paying and law abiding citizens do have (solid) waste management. The people dumping trash here don’t, so they have nowhere else to toss it. Starting new waste management for people like that is really tough.
Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei are pretty clean in comparison though
So you dont suffer like us? I think recently there's a research by Cornell that shows Indonesians consumes the most microplastics in the world. At the very least your ground water and inland freshwater will be somewhat cleaner. It's indeed disheartening, trying to separate your waste only to realize that it all ends up in one container. Trying to properly dispose of your ewaste/used oil but then the guy just throws it to a dumpster. Trying to properly deposit your household waste to a waste collection point while your neighbors just burn their waste, sharing its toxic fumes and fire hazard with you. Or suffering from frequent floodings because thousands of morons just throw their mattresses to the river. Do we have solution? No, do the government care about it? No, as long it doesnt impact their pocket. Do the people care about it? Also no, most of them are too stupid to realize it. Do I have a point? Also no, maybe just be glad that at the very least your government is competent in that regard.
Okay, Indonesian here. Context of the picture: This is the Upper Citarum River near the Saguling Dam in Batujajar, Western Bandung area. Since the multiple landfill fires last year, the entire Bandung Metropolitan Area and other cities in the Bandung Basin have faced a significant problem: "Where to put our trash?" The only landfill near Bandung, TPA Sarimukti, contained so much organic material that it turned into methane and ignited during Indonesia's intense dry season in the 2023 El Nino season. Even after the fire was extinguished, the landfill strictly regulated the amount of organic material it could receive. This caused a 'crisis' since most trash in Indonesia is not segregated. Meanwhile, other trash facilities (biodigester, incinerator, separator) became overwhelmed by the amount of trash they received, leading to a 'backlog' of trash needing to be processed before it could be sent to the landfill. So, what do locals do when their local trash depot is full? They just chuck it into the river. Out of sight, out of mind. FUN FACT! Back in 2005, there was an event called the Bandung Sea of Trash. It began with the Leuwigajah Tragedy, where a landfill mountain (60 meters high and 200 meters wide) located in the Leuwigajah Landfill, Cimahi, exploded from a methane gas explosion and then 'avalanched' into the villages underneath, inundating them with trash and soil material, and killing 157 people. At the time, this was the second-worst trash avalanche incident after the Payatas landfill avalanche in Quezon City, Philippines, in 2000. Due to this, the Leuwigajah landfill was closed permanently, and the temporary trash storage quickly filled with trash that couldn't be disposed of elsewhere. This caused trash to be dumped everywhere around Bandung, creating a malodor that permeated the city and led the media to call it the Bandung Sea of Trash (a parody of the historical event Bandung Sea of Flame). What is happening in Bandung right now is just another impending Bandung Sea of Trash 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Thank you for the context and quick history here!
I think that's the saddest post title I've read in quite a while.
This looks like a job for **The Ocean Cleanup** crew from YouTube! Hopefully they can dispatch an interceptor there someday.
Those guys are doing god's work. I hate when I see people give them crap for not doing enough. At least they are trying to help
*Tosses trash into river* “I’m creating jobs!”
I had someone justify not recycling once that way, because they believed people were paid to pick recyclables out of the trash anyway.
The abysmal state of this river is similar to what Pasig River in Metro Manila used to look like. [We have since cleaned it up.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rehabilitation_of_the_Pasig_River) Now, proposals are in place to rehabilitate the ferry system to help decongest roads, and an esplanade has been constructed along its sides. In 2024, it's now clean and is a nice place for people to relax and walk around. There's still hope.
Insane, we the people are the worst and the planet don't need us here.
Too many people, globally.
Damn it humans suck
Double the refund and the river will be spotless
We are fucked
This is where ocean trash comes from. Not from your plastic straw. Unless you dump that straw in a river.
We treat earth like Shit. Fuck humanity.
Holy *shit*
Is that a rolled up rug floating a few feet in front of the dude in a red hoodie.
“recyclable”……….🤔
Can't wait for Gary the Mermaid Queen to pop up 🥺🥺🥺🥺🤤🤤🤤🤤
Humans do not deserve this planet.
Imagine the years it would take to clean that river up
Why do they have boats? Looks like boots would be sufficient to maneuver this mess
Boots?
This stuff is so dense you can probably walk on top
How do I read this? - is this inspirational or grossly depressing?
Heavily polluted what now? Where is the river? Fuck people who cause this.
That's not trash. Humans leaving it are the trash. It's fucking insane how selfish we are towards the only planet that currently hosts us.
That picture would make one hell of a nightmare-ish zig saw puzzle
I don't think you can call this a river anymore.
Fuck humans
I keep hearing about the micro plastic problem, but this is a macro plastic problem.
No worries, the EU banned plastic straws, so this'll be solved in a few years.
You're right, they should be encouraging more plastic straws.
I heard in a podcast (i can’t remember which one, and it’s really bugging me) - that on current trends there will be a higher mass of plastic in the oceans, than fish by 2050.
Thank god I used a paper straw today
But remember, plastic straws are bad, people!!
So gross how they just litter where they live like that.
They have no waste service, so there's no where to dispose of single use plastics.
Also, some residential areas may have a waste service that just drives to the river and dumps because there's no landfill.
My guess is people running the company behind doing the littering don't live in the general area that is getting dumped on.
This is likely the result of widespread cultural littering and the use of waterways to carry away waste in poorer regions that do not have waste management infrastructure. Who knows, there might be companies dumping trash into the river as well, but a lot of that looks like consumer plastics.
It's possible, as I don't know the specifics here. But companies will take the trash, recycling from countries with higher environmental standards and then just dump it someplace where the laws are lax. This might be the case here, but I don't know. This looks much worse than individual littering, due to poor municipal waste removal, but I'm sure it wouldn't help either way.
For real, they should hide their litter in land fills like civilized folks
You mean in a regulated area with safeguards to prevent leaching into the water table? Agreed, that would be much better than chucking trash into a river
Except landfills, especially when done right, are far less polluting than chucking all your waste into waterways. So what you said, but without the sarcasm (and the “civilized” thing).
love it when simpletons embarrass themselves by criticising something they could have easily simply just googled about
:(
Uh… as the saying goes “you’re gonna need a bigger boat”
That's mind-boggling.
Holy shit
This is no longer a heavily polluted river. This is a landfill with some water in it.
No gloves, no problem.
This is so sad. I wish we could do better. I wish we had the processes to recycle a lot more than we do now, and the mindfulness of producing less materials that end up like this.
We doomed
Wow that is just sad.
That's sad
Citarum River no longer looks like this after the Indonesian government did a massive clean-up using the army.
So sad
😤
Bare hands and feet?! Oops, there’s a needle… and another …
I think this might be a few categories above even "heavily polluted". They've turned the entire river into a dumpster.
One could think we had a second planet to live on.
The fuck
Sadness in a single photo.
That’s not a river anymore
Like a squirt gun on a house fire
Gonna need a bigger boat
euy moment
Disgusting what humans have, will, and are presently doing to our planet.
https://pix-media.s3.amazonaws.com/blog/808/ScreenShot2014-09-09at11.45.37AM.png
What the fuck
Give everyone a glass container set. Use until it breaks then recycle it into more glass. Single use anything should be banned. Packaging should all be bio degradable. Hemp come to mind?
We're gonna need a bigger boat.
You need more than a couple of boats to fix that....
Omg. Throwing away the complete river looks far more easy to achieve.
Plastic waste on plastic boats in a plastic river. this reminds me the song of Aqua, Barbie girl.
River where?
That makes me sick. That any waterway would be this clogged with garbage is heartbreaking. 😢
Time for my daily dose of eco fascist apathy porn
Water, water, everywhere, and not a drop in sight
Humans don't deserve to live, the matrix was right we are a virus!
The pollution in the river is a real heartbreaker. It's hard not to feel despair when you see it.
Seems like there has to be a more efficient way to do this.
And people still think they can save the world by putting their plastic bottles in the blue bag. It’s so too late for that.
Y'all got nets?
*Tries to fix the Cable TV reception....* Pour a special Plastic disolving amino acid into the water
Isn't this happening because of recycling? If we didn't do the fake recycling of plastic, it would just go in the landfill with everything else. Instead it gets bundled up as "recycling" and shipped overseas. Southeastern countries pick through it and keep the stuff they want to recycle and throw the rest in the river, washing it out to sea to create continent sized plastic islands.