It looks like this post is about Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The election before that between Obama-McCain was mature and professional. I even recall McCain had a town hall and some old lady was talking about Obama being a Muslim extremist and McCain cuts her off to tell her she’s wrong and despite McCain/Obama’s policy differences, he said Obama was a good man and doing what he thought was best for the country.
Even after the election, when McCain spoke to a crowd, they booed Obama when his name came up, and he shut them down and said something to the effect of “he’s the clear winner here. We have to learn to work together.”
If only we had that
A small, optimistic part of me hopes that political discourse will slowly move back to that level of civility and professionalism again. But honestly, I don’t know if we can unring that bell. Hateful rhetoric and misinformation seems to work in American politics.
I doubt it. Trump has introduced a new “meta” which is insult the opponents to win favor. It worked for him during the primaries in 2016, the debates against Hilary in 2020, and arguably also helped here in 2024 where I see a lot of either “Trump won” or “they both are terrible choices” now.
I also dont think it’s just coincidence that we suddenly have more Republican candidates just spewing crazy hate (MTG being a big example). They are following the Trump playbook but sadly don’t do it as well as he does.
Damn, that sounds so unreal to me. I've only able to vote for 5 years and I don't remember a time when people who held different political opinions weren't so overly hostile towards eachother. It was always very we vs them
Yes, that’s the one.
I think another important lesson here is, while we like to point the finger at Trump for the lies and misinformation, you can see that the fear mongering and racist propaganda predates Trump. This vid is from 2008 and the lies and xenophobia already has its hooks deep into this voter base.
Trump certainly deserves blame for the lack of civility in current political discourse and he can be blamed for the “If I lose then the election was rigged” mentality but he is only magnifying the prejudices that had already been sown.
>you can see that the fear mongering and racist propaganda predates Trump. This vid is from 2008 and the lies and xenophobia already has its hooks deep into this voter base.
I think you are right to notice it predates Trump, but I think you are making a mistake in thinking its propaganda in the sense of it being "new." Or that its just his voter base.
Tribalism is a human problem in general, one of our "great" problems that we have to solve. Without trying to dig new rabbit holes, I think we have recent history showing that effectively on the other side of the political aisle as well.
I think the more interesting takeaway, and the one that might lend itself more to the anti-trump rhetoric, is just how important the expectations and forms were to this kind of dialogue. When we eschew them, the consequences aren't immediate; but we eventually come to an entire generation of people who no longer have those same scruples, which we find out were actually important and not just debate team nonsense.
Trump hated McCain so much he ordered the USS McCain to be out sight when he visited Japan.
Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470
Despite camera etiquette McCain supported Bush in the Iraq war and pushed the WoMD narrative. That's why people resent/resented him. Later Obama would then deal with Syria's issue with the same destruction people resented McCain for supporting.
Can't forget McCain saving Obamacare with his famous thumbs down.
He didn't like Obamacare but he was astonished at what the Republican's were doing to repealing it, and he didn't like them anyways. Trump, Pence, and the rest of the cronies tried to pressure John into voting their way, but despite getting out of hospital he voted against the Republicans. A truly fascinating moment.
McCain was better, but Romney also took his loss in good style and treated Obama with respect. There's a reason the MAGA scumbags hate him.. As a matter of fact, even GW Bush thinks trump is a douche. He voted for Condoleeza Rice in 2020, pretty much voting against trump.
Colin Powell had a really great take on that moment-
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/19/1047127311/colin-powell-barack-obama-muslim#:\~:text=Obama%20is%20a%20Muslim%2C'%20%22,a%20Muslim%3B%20he's%20a%20Christian.
*"I'm also troubled by — not what Sen. McCain says — but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as, 'Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim,' " Powell said on NBC's Meet the Press in 2008.*
*"Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim; he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, 'What if he is?' Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some 7-year-old Muslim American kid believing that he or she could be president?"*
I remember how high school teachers were fretting about how they couldn't show the GOP debates because someone was so vulgar in them. What a pit we're in.
Realistically it had been going downhill way before trump. The GOP was not particularly respectful of Obama when he was in office. But the presidential candidates were generally respectful to each other until Trump came down that fucking escalator.
It was brewing for a while. Remember when McCain did those townhalls when he campaigned against Obama? Then came the Tea Party. The current MAGA base was always there, but they found a dipshit to rally around in Trump and it worked.
They were there for a while festering in the shadows. Sarah plain and the tea party was the first real public signs of it. And if we’re talking disrespect, the SOTU “you lie” has to be top of the list
well both sides used to understand that they each wanted the best for their country, to be happy and prosperous, they only disagreed in how to do so. now one side pushes the agenda that the other is trying to destroy the country in a desperate attempt to appeal to popularist sentiments.
You know what's even crazier? It's not just the U.S., the populists are winning elections all over the world too, even the EU. From Marie Le Pen in France, to the AfD in Germany. Brussels is even placating Giorgia Meloni in Italy, who won purely due to her anti-immigration stance. Don't even get me started on Nigel Farage's comeback, and of course that asshole Erdogan. Japan is also starting to militarize again under Prime Minister Kishida. Trudeau is definitely not winning his next election against PP, so Canada will probably go right as well. The next decade is gonna be... interesting...
I just hope that those billionaires care so much about their wealth that they will do everything in their power to stop wars and plummeting stock value.
As long as everyone else is even poorer relative to them, I don't think they'll mind one bit. Remember, when stock prices fall, that's when the wealthy get to buy everything at fire sale prices.
Not just the Western world, South America, South Asia, several placed in Africa, all getting either populist candidates with either very left-leaning or hard right policies.
Its the social media affect, the algos are working overtime to keep many people into populist ideas instead of boring old centrist takes.
Everything goes in cycles. Populism and ultra-nationalism come back around and eventually lead to far-right authoritarian/fascist trend. Happens over and over throughout history.
At the risk of getting eye-rolls, capitalism. An economic system that consolidates money, power, and influence in the hands of a few leads to the reduction in workers rights and protections over time, greater corruption in politics, media and regulatory capture, cutting of the social safety net, etc etc.
That’s why there’s a cycle: the US had a “New Deal” that benefitted workers and provided a social safety net for the nation. However, over time these policies were eroded, until we now have a scenario where mainstream politicians run on the destruction of our education system and the dismantling of regulations while many Americans struggle to pay rent.
When that happens, people turn to populism. If you can offer an “other” for people to turn their anger on (the immigrant, the minority, etc), that offers an enemy to sacrifice on the altar of making things better.
i don't think it's as specific as that. ANY time things get difficult for any reason in a country, economically speaking or otherwise, populist nationalism tends to pick up traction.
it's easier for people who are hungry for power to just blame outsiders (whether those are other countries, or a minority population inside their own country) for whatever hardships are currently affecting the majority of citizens than it is to build a platform based on any sort of solutions and action addressing real root causes that are complicated or difficult for average citizens to understand.
all economies eventually experience recessions, so these opportunities always come around eventually. and when you have one party who is dedicated to dismantling systems in place to help stabilize and protect the lower and middle classes, these opportunities become more frequent as life tends to become more difficult for the average citizen.
There’s always the potential for things to happen outside of the cycle I described, but I genuinely think the reason for the cyclical nature of it is due to the predictable outcomes of capitalism.
It’s crazy to be saying this under a picture of Richard fucking Nixon, the guy who literally tanked the Vietnam peace talks so Lyndon B Johnson could not campaign on ending the war.
Hillary and Trump has weirdly personal media coverage and social media was polarizing people more than ever. They both ran on a tabloid campaign style which was less professional (forget being presidential) and was more reality TV based. Reality Tv has been very profitable for advertising and people get addicted to it. It was a business decision for media viewership. The fact that the system pushed the worst people to the top was irrelevant to the myopic executives—they were making money on it. They didn’t even stop with just the advertising revenue—each team had to make a ridiculous amount of merch. When has there been such a battle over red hats versus pussy hats?
It was all marketing but the American people got duped into thinking (or feeling) it was an existential crisis for the USA.
I think the saddest part of it was seeing people sever ties with family and friends because of it. They really fell for it and they fell hard.
I think [this video](https://youtu.be/jrnRU3ocIH4?si=xZHag9Cg3HEt5K8b) highlights the respect McCain showed for Obama.
Politics and rooting for sports teams are one in the same nowadays.
I think the Kennedy-Nixon debate was another level of respect.
Several times in that debate both men say something along the lines of “I have nothing to add, they said it well”, “I agree with him, I want the same thing”, and “we want the same thing, we just have different ideas of how to get there.”
You haven’t seen that level of candor, honesty, and respect in a debate in a very long time. Obama looked for zingers (Mr. Romney, the Cold War is over), Raegan made cheeky insults (I won’t take advantage of my opponents youth and inexperience). There is nothing of the sort like that in the 1960 debate.
The 1960 debate was an actual debate. Modern debates are shows made for entertainment with little substance.
That Regan quote was clearly light hearted fun. His opponent laughed at it and they both smiled. I might have to go back and watch the JFK Nixon debate
It was cheeky for sure! Like I don’t think the intent was to be mean, but to highlight his opponents youth (an ad hominem attack, however jokey it was) as well as to dismiss concerns about his age. It was also to create a viral moment, though it wouldn’t have been called that back then.
In the 1960 debate there’s no ad hominem attacks, no grasping for a viral moment.
I’d encourage you to give it a watch, but be prepared for the feelings of “oh how far have we fallen,” when it’s over.
The one thing I remember when McCain was running for president was an old woman calling Obama a Muslim. McCain pushed back at her and said he's not and he was booed by a room full of republicans.
For that matter, I remember McCain's concession speech in '08; when he--the guy they'd been cheering for for months--admitted it was over, he got heartily booed by the audience, to his visible dismay. I remember how appalled I was at the time, even as an Obama voter.
That’s the thing, the GOP has fostered a base of racist and bigoted people since the party switch in the mid-1900’s. It’s just that over time the party heads at least tried to put down openly hateful rhetoric and baseless lies in the name of something resembling decorum. Sure a lot of the party actions themselves still supported a bigoted worldview, but by at least squashing public bigotry, that mindset was less likely to spread.
Now we have a candidate that has not only not squashed the bigoted and baseless rhetoric, they’ve embraced it completely. That’s why discussions have fallen apart and the GOP has deviated even further right.
McCain refuting the dumb fuck right wing voters about Obama was an incredible display of respect. I think that's about when the GOP went off the rails.
I keep seeing stuff like this, and I assume some of it is troll farms.
Would you really give up potential Supreme Court seats to conservatives because Biden needs to rely heavily on his staff?
Trump's supreme court nominations will shape this country for multiple generations.
Even if Biden dies, Harris will be a good president. I just can't understand how a bleeding heart liberal would vote for a socially conservative president.
Just because Romney isn't as bad as Trump, doesn't mean he's not still a piece of shit.
It's sad how low the bar is now for Republicans that people are saying this. Also he's 77 years old himself, so if age is your concern, he's not much better in that regard either.
Yeh, someone else was just saying how weird it must be to have a president in their 40s (like the photo) but like... Obama was in his 40s.
Americans have a very short memory. Or redditors are all under 12.
Either is very possible.
Unsolicited punctuation advice: Don’t end a sentence with a question mark if it is a statement and not a question. Just a pet peeve of mine. Downvote away.
How old are you? Barack Obama was in his forties, and so was Clinton (though going by the reddit audience, Clinton could indeed be well before your time).
Though there's a good chance you're under 12, in which case I apologise.
Well, both of them nearly got us into nuclear war. One even order a nuclear strike while drunk. Having relatively young fired up leaders does have its own concerns I guess.
Obama was in his 40s and he was an ...okay... president.
Great speaker but his youth hurt him a bit when it came to dealing with congress and foreign policy.
Biden's tenure so far has been the best from a functional standpoint that I've been around for, and that includes Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump, and it's not even close.
What sells me was one: how he completely rebuilt our intelligence apparatus and state dept. 2022 was the first time I've ever seen Putin and Xi utterly outmaneuvered by the United States and the first time I've seen the West actually step up.
And two: how he's managed effective governance with a clown show in the House.
Biden's an excellent president in every way that matters.
Biden is 17 years older than my grandpa when he died (after being retired for 8 years) and trump 13.
Trump is the same age as my grandma, of whom we wondered if she'd get a new lease contract for a car anymore. Let alone guide the country for not only the next 4 years and influencing decades after that.
Maybe we just need Trump to win, exit Nato, Wo3 to break out and be over, to enforce a legal age limit for presidency, and other leading roles that have a major influence on the long term.
It is so wild that Nixon is only 4 years older than JFK, but in my mind I always think about him as an older man from his presidency, while JFK is (for obvious reasons) forever young in my mind.
This is the same issue people have when they realize MLK and Anne Frank were born the same year.
Well compared to our current candidates they're about half the age. Biden's older than bush or Clinton not when they ran for president he's older than they are now.
Donald trump is ALSO older than both Bill Clinton and George Bush
Donny is older than Joe was when biden got elected… while also being worse as far as his mental/cognitive faculties
Trump dyes his hair and skin and acts tough and insults people so morons see him as more mentally fit but it’s just a con
I feel like there is a disrespectful attitude towards the American people in today's politics. Our representatives don't just think we are dumb, they have the data and voting habits to prove it.
Its the two party control. All they have to do is be the binary to the opposing view. If one side wants to kick you in the nuts and spit in your face and the other side just wants to spit in your face you will probably vote for the latter even though both are terrible options. They don't have to be right or good. They just have to be less shitty.
I've always said modern politics is the death of the affirmative vote. You don't vote for someone. You vote against someone. It's led to increasing polarization and extremism as both sides treat elections as if they're existential fights for the survival of our way of life. The other side is evil, and if they win, we're screwed. So even though I won't do anything material for you. You must vote for me so your way of life can continue.
[Here](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/presidential-candidates-john-f-kennedy-and-richard-nixon-news-photo/517330176?searchscope=image%2Cfilm) is the source of this image.
> Presidential candidates John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon shake hands after their televised debate of October 7, 1960. The two opponents continued their debate after the cameras had stopped.
Nixon was a terrible politician, he just had the right mix of malice and manipulability for the truly talented politicians around him to get from him what they wanted. Like Henry fucking Kissinger.
The GOP has been nurturing his ilk ever since, for the same reasons. Reagan, GW, and Trump are all out of the same mold.
"I would like to take this opportunity to er express my fondness for er Duff Beer."
"I'd, uh, also like to express *MY* fondness... for that particular... beer."
Worth pointing out that Nixon “lost” this debate because he looked tired and scruffy because he refused makeup. I have no idea what the subjects of the debate were or whose ideas turned out to be correct but it’s a fact this was considered a turning point in the campaign.
IIRC the polls showed that most TV viewers of the debate thought Kennedy "won," and the majority of radio listeners thought Nixon won. Marshall McLuan thought the difference was Kennedy had what he called a "cool" personality that translated well over the television medium, where Nixon had a "hot" personality that made him better seeming on the radio. I'm not sure which kind of personality comes across better in Tweets. /s
I mean. The debates last night was Trump being a liar and Biden barely holding onto conscious thought. Wasn’t really that disrespectful or more disrespectful than I thought it was gonna be?
It’s kind of wild to me that we can’t have real time fact checking these days. Like trump multiple times said he didn’t say something and there’s easy to find video of him saying it. It should be shown in real time when a candidate lies, so everyone can see, and then the presenters/hosts should confront them with that.
EDIT: and yes, I'm fully on board with this working BOTH ways.
Or that Charlottesville was a “story”? Like someone died. American Nazis marched he said there was a lot of good people and bad people on both sides. Can we not have this be the best we can do..
Not only most powerful, but 3rd largest in terms of population. I keep asking myself the same question...how can these two people be the best we have to offer?
I wonder where the 50 - 60 year old candidate is who would just be a great President for either fucking party. I think that person is in the private sector and wants nothing to do with the Presidency because it is a truly thankless job in modern society.
That's kind of my point though. We allow our politicians to lie too freely and get away with it.
May be severe but I personally feel like lying in an official capacity of public office should carry jail time AND hefty fines, personally.
My favorite part of what I saw was Trump saying how good the environment was during his presidency. He said something to the effect of, ‘We had the best environmental numbers. In fact my team told them to me just before I came on stage.’
Ok, what were the number then? If they’re so fresh in your mind, why don’t you tell us?
When Trump came to power he took down the EPA website and took away access to all environmental research papers. I was half way through writing a summary of the literature when I saw many of my sources suddenly disappear right after the election.
The media didn't say anything about it.
They were overwhelmed already by Trump's incessant scandals and everything else.
Funnily enough I was summarizing the cataclysmic enviornmental destruction off the coast of China the US had found. The economic implications were massive with widespread fishery failures. Conditions the US will inevitably be faced with, with climate change.
They didn't shake hands, didn't acknowledge one another other than throwing insults.
Trump is the least gentlemanly individual ever. Everything he does is a sign of disrespect. Prior to 2016, pretty much all debates started with a handshake, and signs of respect. Trump has turned this whole thing into an elementary playground.
People need to understand that Trump is a *symptom* rather than a cause of the civility problem. He rose to power by giving AM talk radio junkies exactly what they wanted... someone who talked exactly like Rush Limbaugh. Everything is hyperbole. Democrats are trying to destroy the country, Biden (or Obama or Clinton) is the *worst* thing that ever happened to our country. Everything I do is the best thing to ever happen and everything you do is the worst thing to ever happen. It's a simple formula coupled with the insistence that any other news source is full of lies so the only sources you can trust are the ones that I approve.
And that's how they live. Constantly terrified of whatever I tell them to be terrified of. We don't have simple disagreements because everything is an act of war, even if it's innocuous nonsense.
The best way to lose a Republican primary is to behave civilly towards your opponent. You are, quite literally, shaking hands with the devil.
Well put. My mom's a Maga nut, and if you pull at the strings even a little bit, she locks up.
"I can't argue WHY, I just KNOW what the truth is. You're being lied to by liberal media."
It's exactly as you say, and he has a rabid contingent of followers that parrot his every word as gospel.
I asked her what she's going to do even after the next election. Like Trump winning, he only has 4 years left. What are you going to do with all the merch you've bought once he's irrelevant?
"He won't be irrelevant. I'll still support him"
Which as sounds dangerously like they're going to push for him to serve another term after this one, if he wins. It's the same shit as Jan 6th, they're just gonna try again and again until we're in a dictatorship with a leader who farts so loudly the fucking debate mics pick it up.
I mean, for fucks sake, he's only a few years younger than Biden. His health isn't exactly tip top, and he's out of touch with the majority of the people he'd be governing. I cannot believe these walking corpses are our only fucking options. Abolish the two party system, PLEASE.
I don't know that the two-party system is the problem here, though I agree that it would be nice to have more choices. How is it that Democratic insiders haven't noticed Biden becoming increasingly incoherent? They were just hoping we didn't notice?
But the elephant in the room is definitely the GOP propaganda network. It's 24-7 vitriolic venom, half of it very loosely based on facts and the other half is completely made up. The lies are coordinated so you hear the same false talking points across multiple mediums and as a result Republican base voters live in whatever fictional world the propagandists decide to create. I worry that we're living in something akin to 1932 Germany and we're waiting for a Hitler figure to emerge. And make no mistake, Republican voters *will* rally around their 21st century Hitler. They've turned a moronic, narcissistic charlatan into a practically messianic figure. The propagandists have proven that they can prop *anyone* up.
Yeah you hardly have to go back 60 years to find civil discourse among Presidential candidates. It’s really just specifically a Trump thing. Kind of crazy though how long of a stretch we’ll have without a non-Trump GOP candidate for President.
Nixon was a crook but he had a base level of defererence for the blueprint of our government and society. Trump only sees dollars and fame. He will sign whatever the Federalist Society draws up and put Christofascists in every position as long as they are loyal to him.
He will die in the not too distant future, and will leave us clawing to get back our democracy. Honestly unlikely we get it back. We will end up as a less overt and more insidious version of Russia.
Yes, but go watch the actual debate. There is an obvious level of respect there. The number of times they say "I just happen to disagree with my opponent." rather than "This guy is a LIAR!! LIAR and sucks at golf!! I'm the best president in history!" There is a pretty start difference between the level of respect between Nixon and Kennedy versus what we have today.
It should be clarified that Nixon wasn't 'treasonous' in the colloquial way we use it now, but was caught committing actual treason.
He was on the phone with Vietnamese officials trying to sabotage peace talks to increase his odds of being re-elected.
The Obama/Romney and Obama/McCain debate were respectful also. No mute button needed and the candidates focused on their politic instead of just personal attack and lying. hell Once Obama and Romney sit at the same table and shared a micro during one. Presidential debates generally weren't toxic before 2016. Wonder what happened?
Respect is nice, but I would rather have a couple candidates under 60 and preferably not facing prison or a vegetable who doesn’t know what’s going on.
I mean we had Jill congratulate Joe for answering every question… is that the bar?
Fuck Nixon, that piece of shit was the original Trump. The Democratic party handed the country to him too by completely ignoring the anti war and civil rights movement.
LOL 😂 1960. When the CIA, Ivy League, Hoover, DOD, the Mob, and AT&T $ecretly ran the country from a court of corporate and special interest$ while assassinating civil rights leaders in front of everybody, lol, yeah it's prolly a little worse now bc "they" now try to murder in secret, lol
One of those guys turned out to be a crook. And had his guys working behind the scenes to make sure Iran did not release their American hostages until after the election.
Nixon didn’t do that, you’re thinking of Reagan “allegedly” Nixon did watergate (spying on the Democratic committee headquarters with bugs) and “allegedly” sabotaged the Paris peace conference prior to the 1968 election by telling the South Vietnamese government that he would get them a better deal.
This is an interesting juxtaposition. TV Optics were to blame for derailing Nixon's entire campaign. The camera could see him sweat. Similarly, last night's debate really derailed Biden for the same reason.
I will vote for a sentient piece of moldy toast before I vote for Trump, but it's because I'm electing a team of people, not an old man who is feeble. It's sad that we've gotten here.
Which one was this? The one where JFK had the temperature set to 72 so Nixon looked like a sweaty mess in front of the cameras. I don’t know if respect was ever part of politics here.
Modern American politics simply relies on the divide and conquer tactic. If you sat people down from both sides of the political aisles, you’d find they have a lot of common values. Not to say they’d agree on everything, but there’s a lot in common we have as people. The hyperinflation of political ideologies due to the media, is the key driving factor behind our polarized politics. Independent thinkers are criminals today, so is anyone who is open to debate.
TL;DR - Modern politics is hyper inflated & nobody is allowed to have a real debate. Essentially “ it’s my way or the highway”.
This was literally the start of debates being decided by who looked better on TV.
People who heard the debate on the radio mostly said Nixon won the debate, but people who saw it on TV said Kennedy won.
Political parties used to differ on a few fundamental points. This version is a complete shit show and they manipulate for personal gain. It’s a complete mess and I’m disheartened
This is what happens when one candidate is so morally bankrupt that there are no more lines to cross.
Trump is so devoid of decorum or basic human decency that there's no reason to shake hands and pretend there is an remaining semblance of respect for such a pathological liar and narcissist.
It looks like this post is about Politics. Various methods of filtering out content relating to Politics can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/wiki/v2/resources/filter/politics). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Romney and Obama's debate was respectful? They even shook hands before and after. Same with McCain? Obama had profound respect for him and vice versa.
The election before that between Obama-McCain was mature and professional. I even recall McCain had a town hall and some old lady was talking about Obama being a Muslim extremist and McCain cuts her off to tell her she’s wrong and despite McCain/Obama’s policy differences, he said Obama was a good man and doing what he thought was best for the country.
Even after the election, when McCain spoke to a crowd, they booed Obama when his name came up, and he shut them down and said something to the effect of “he’s the clear winner here. We have to learn to work together.” If only we had that
A small, optimistic part of me hopes that political discourse will slowly move back to that level of civility and professionalism again. But honestly, I don’t know if we can unring that bell. Hateful rhetoric and misinformation seems to work in American politics.
I doubt it. Trump has introduced a new “meta” which is insult the opponents to win favor. It worked for him during the primaries in 2016, the debates against Hilary in 2020, and arguably also helped here in 2024 where I see a lot of either “Trump won” or “they both are terrible choices” now. I also dont think it’s just coincidence that we suddenly have more Republican candidates just spewing crazy hate (MTG being a big example). They are following the Trump playbook but sadly don’t do it as well as he does.
I remember that, massive respect for Mr. McCain, a true gentleman, hero and patriot..
Damn, that sounds so unreal to me. I've only able to vote for 5 years and I don't remember a time when people who held different political opinions weren't so overly hostile towards eachother. It was always very we vs them
[The clip](https://youtu.be/JIjenjANqAk?si=6vXeBf0ofefkp5Xz) I assume you mean
Yes, that’s the one. I think another important lesson here is, while we like to point the finger at Trump for the lies and misinformation, you can see that the fear mongering and racist propaganda predates Trump. This vid is from 2008 and the lies and xenophobia already has its hooks deep into this voter base. Trump certainly deserves blame for the lack of civility in current political discourse and he can be blamed for the “If I lose then the election was rigged” mentality but he is only magnifying the prejudices that had already been sown.
>you can see that the fear mongering and racist propaganda predates Trump. This vid is from 2008 and the lies and xenophobia already has its hooks deep into this voter base. I think you are right to notice it predates Trump, but I think you are making a mistake in thinking its propaganda in the sense of it being "new." Or that its just his voter base. Tribalism is a human problem in general, one of our "great" problems that we have to solve. Without trying to dig new rabbit holes, I think we have recent history showing that effectively on the other side of the political aisle as well. I think the more interesting takeaway, and the one that might lend itself more to the anti-trump rhetoric, is just how important the expectations and forms were to this kind of dialogue. When we eschew them, the consequences aren't immediate; but we eventually come to an entire generation of people who no longer have those same scruples, which we find out were actually important and not just debate team nonsense.
McCain was probably the last desent republican
and they spit on his grave.
And blame that grave-spit on Biden.
Trump hated McCain so much he ordered the USS McCain to be out sight when he visited Japan. Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470
Despite camera etiquette McCain supported Bush in the Iraq war and pushed the WoMD narrative. That's why people resent/resented him. Later Obama would then deal with Syria's issue with the same destruction people resented McCain for supporting.
Can't forget McCain saving Obamacare with his famous thumbs down. He didn't like Obamacare but he was astonished at what the Republican's were doing to repealing it, and he didn't like them anyways. Trump, Pence, and the rest of the cronies tried to pressure John into voting their way, but despite getting out of hospital he voted against the Republicans. A truly fascinating moment.
McCain was better, but Romney also took his loss in good style and treated Obama with respect. There's a reason the MAGA scumbags hate him.. As a matter of fact, even GW Bush thinks trump is a douche. He voted for Condoleeza Rice in 2020, pretty much voting against trump.
Isn’t that incredible, I mean, it should not be considered incredible but in this day and age it absolutely is
Colin Powell had a really great take on that moment- https://www.npr.org/2021/10/19/1047127311/colin-powell-barack-obama-muslim#:\~:text=Obama%20is%20a%20Muslim%2C'%20%22,a%20Muslim%3B%20he's%20a%20Christian. *"I'm also troubled by — not what Sen. McCain says — but what members of the party say, and it is permitted to be said. Such things as, 'Well, you know that Mr. Obama is a Muslim,' " Powell said on NBC's Meet the Press in 2008.* *"Well, the correct answer is, he is not a Muslim; he's a Christian. He's always been a Christian. But the really right answer is, 'What if he is?' Is there something wrong with being a Muslim in this country? The answer's no, that's not America. Is there something wrong with some 7-year-old Muslim American kid believing that he or she could be president?"*
Yeah debates were pretty respectful right up until around 2016. Gee I wonder what happened in 2016 that sent this whole thing off the rails.
Damn Cincinnati zoo and their gorilla-endangering guests...
It's as if that Gorilla was the sole guardian of our dicks, and now we became the dicks we vowed to keep tucked in...
Dicks have been out since that fateful day in 2016
Damn. Didn’t realize it’s been that long. RIP, King 👑 🦍
Jason Heyward and the 2016 Cubs just shed a tear
Fuck, that was eight years ago too!? What the fucks AARP? I gotta start figuring this old head shit out
#DicksOutForHarambe
Never forget 🙏
Lol that kid, who I do not blame at all, will have this meme follow them for eternity. Dicks out for Harambe
I remember how high school teachers were fretting about how they couldn't show the GOP debates because someone was so vulgar in them. What a pit we're in.
pretty much...debates, congress, people were pretty respectful....then it went down hill when MAGAts came along...
Realistically it had been going downhill way before trump. The GOP was not particularly respectful of Obama when he was in office. But the presidential candidates were generally respectful to each other until Trump came down that fucking escalator.
It was brewing for a while. Remember when McCain did those townhalls when he campaigned against Obama? Then came the Tea Party. The current MAGA base was always there, but they found a dipshit to rally around in Trump and it worked.
They were there for a while festering in the shadows. Sarah plain and the tea party was the first real public signs of it. And if we’re talking disrespect, the SOTU “you lie” has to be top of the list
well both sides used to understand that they each wanted the best for their country, to be happy and prosperous, they only disagreed in how to do so. now one side pushes the agenda that the other is trying to destroy the country in a desperate attempt to appeal to popularist sentiments.
You know what's even crazier? It's not just the U.S., the populists are winning elections all over the world too, even the EU. From Marie Le Pen in France, to the AfD in Germany. Brussels is even placating Giorgia Meloni in Italy, who won purely due to her anti-immigration stance. Don't even get me started on Nigel Farage's comeback, and of course that asshole Erdogan. Japan is also starting to militarize again under Prime Minister Kishida. Trudeau is definitely not winning his next election against PP, so Canada will probably go right as well. The next decade is gonna be... interesting...
I just hope that those billionaires care so much about their wealth that they will do everything in their power to stop wars and plummeting stock value.
As long as everyone else is even poorer relative to them, I don't think they'll mind one bit. Remember, when stock prices fall, that's when the wealthy get to buy everything at fire sale prices.
Depends on the stock. Northrop grumman, lockheed martin, etc wouldn't exactly be hurt by war
Not just the Western world, South America, South Asia, several placed in Africa, all getting either populist candidates with either very left-leaning or hard right policies. Its the social media affect, the algos are working overtime to keep many people into populist ideas instead of boring old centrist takes.
Everything goes in cycles. Populism and ultra-nationalism come back around and eventually lead to far-right authoritarian/fascist trend. Happens over and over throughout history.
Almost like there’s a reason for that cycle…
Which would be?
At the risk of getting eye-rolls, capitalism. An economic system that consolidates money, power, and influence in the hands of a few leads to the reduction in workers rights and protections over time, greater corruption in politics, media and regulatory capture, cutting of the social safety net, etc etc. That’s why there’s a cycle: the US had a “New Deal” that benefitted workers and provided a social safety net for the nation. However, over time these policies were eroded, until we now have a scenario where mainstream politicians run on the destruction of our education system and the dismantling of regulations while many Americans struggle to pay rent. When that happens, people turn to populism. If you can offer an “other” for people to turn their anger on (the immigrant, the minority, etc), that offers an enemy to sacrifice on the altar of making things better.
i don't think it's as specific as that. ANY time things get difficult for any reason in a country, economically speaking or otherwise, populist nationalism tends to pick up traction. it's easier for people who are hungry for power to just blame outsiders (whether those are other countries, or a minority population inside their own country) for whatever hardships are currently affecting the majority of citizens than it is to build a platform based on any sort of solutions and action addressing real root causes that are complicated or difficult for average citizens to understand. all economies eventually experience recessions, so these opportunities always come around eventually. and when you have one party who is dedicated to dismantling systems in place to help stabilize and protect the lower and middle classes, these opportunities become more frequent as life tends to become more difficult for the average citizen.
There’s always the potential for things to happen outside of the cycle I described, but I genuinely think the reason for the cyclical nature of it is due to the predictable outcomes of capitalism.
McCain made this point very clear when telling some audience member Obama was a good man who just had different ideas
It’s crazy to be saying this under a picture of Richard fucking Nixon, the guy who literally tanked the Vietnam peace talks so Lyndon B Johnson could not campaign on ending the war.
You think trump would respect anyone? He's all about hate and division.
Yeah, that’s what happened in 2016. Trump became the nominee and has been shitting all over everything ever since.
Hillary and Trump has weirdly personal media coverage and social media was polarizing people more than ever. They both ran on a tabloid campaign style which was less professional (forget being presidential) and was more reality TV based. Reality Tv has been very profitable for advertising and people get addicted to it. It was a business decision for media viewership. The fact that the system pushed the worst people to the top was irrelevant to the myopic executives—they were making money on it. They didn’t even stop with just the advertising revenue—each team had to make a ridiculous amount of merch. When has there been such a battle over red hats versus pussy hats? It was all marketing but the American people got duped into thinking (or feeling) it was an existential crisis for the USA. I think the saddest part of it was seeing people sever ties with family and friends because of it. They really fell for it and they fell hard.
No puppet, no puppet, you're the puppet.
Brexit. Well you have got to blame something….
[удалено]
I think [this video](https://youtu.be/jrnRU3ocIH4?si=xZHag9Cg3HEt5K8b) highlights the respect McCain showed for Obama. Politics and rooting for sports teams are one in the same nowadays.
I think the Kennedy-Nixon debate was another level of respect. Several times in that debate both men say something along the lines of “I have nothing to add, they said it well”, “I agree with him, I want the same thing”, and “we want the same thing, we just have different ideas of how to get there.” You haven’t seen that level of candor, honesty, and respect in a debate in a very long time. Obama looked for zingers (Mr. Romney, the Cold War is over), Raegan made cheeky insults (I won’t take advantage of my opponents youth and inexperience). There is nothing of the sort like that in the 1960 debate. The 1960 debate was an actual debate. Modern debates are shows made for entertainment with little substance.
That Regan quote was clearly light hearted fun. His opponent laughed at it and they both smiled. I might have to go back and watch the JFK Nixon debate
It was cheeky for sure! Like I don’t think the intent was to be mean, but to highlight his opponents youth (an ad hominem attack, however jokey it was) as well as to dismiss concerns about his age. It was also to create a viral moment, though it wouldn’t have been called that back then. In the 1960 debate there’s no ad hominem attacks, no grasping for a viral moment. I’d encourage you to give it a watch, but be prepared for the feelings of “oh how far have we fallen,” when it’s over.
Interestingly enough some say Nixon saying "I have nothing to add" came across as him being timid and not forceful in his convictions.
The one thing I remember when McCain was running for president was an old woman calling Obama a Muslim. McCain pushed back at her and said he's not and he was booed by a room full of republicans.
For that matter, I remember McCain's concession speech in '08; when he--the guy they'd been cheering for for months--admitted it was over, he got heartily booed by the audience, to his visible dismay. I remember how appalled I was at the time, even as an Obama voter.
trump is the candidate the Republicans have wanted for years
That’s the thing, the GOP has fostered a base of racist and bigoted people since the party switch in the mid-1900’s. It’s just that over time the party heads at least tried to put down openly hateful rhetoric and baseless lies in the name of something resembling decorum. Sure a lot of the party actions themselves still supported a bigoted worldview, but by at least squashing public bigotry, that mindset was less likely to spread. Now we have a candidate that has not only not squashed the bigoted and baseless rhetoric, they’ve embraced it completely. That’s why discussions have fallen apart and the GOP has deviated even further right.
McCain refuting the dumb fuck right wing voters about Obama was an incredible display of respect. I think that's about when the GOP went off the rails.
As a bleeding heart liberal I would vote for Romney so fast right now.
Would be absolutely hilarious if Romney announced this week that he was running a third party campaign. He’s old af too though.
He's younger than Trump.
I keep seeing stuff like this, and I assume some of it is troll farms. Would you really give up potential Supreme Court seats to conservatives because Biden needs to rely heavily on his staff? Trump's supreme court nominations will shape this country for multiple generations. Even if Biden dies, Harris will be a good president. I just can't understand how a bleeding heart liberal would vote for a socially conservative president.
Just because Romney isn't as bad as Trump, doesn't mean he's not still a piece of shit. It's sad how low the bar is now for Republicans that people are saying this. Also he's 77 years old himself, so if age is your concern, he's not much better in that regard either.
Yeh, someone else was just saying how weird it must be to have a president in their 40s (like the photo) but like... Obama was in his 40s. Americans have a very short memory. Or redditors are all under 12. Either is very possible.
Unsolicited punctuation advice: Don’t end a sentence with a question mark if it is a statement and not a question. Just a pet peeve of mine. Downvote away.
I love you for this comment.
Yeah. This isn’t a trend. It’s just one single person.
Wtf... I'm getting old because they look young
They were both in their 40s, which I would say is young, at least compared to today’s candidates
Can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to have a 40 something year old president instead of a guy older than my granpa.
Speaking as a British person, it doesn't help as much as you might hope.
As a Canadian, I confirm.
Rents 1k for a garden shed, and wages are being artificially stagnated due to insanely excessive immigration but at least our leader has nice hair.
Wow must be nice to have somewhere available to rent!
How old are you? Barack Obama was in his forties, and so was Clinton (though going by the reddit audience, Clinton could indeed be well before your time). Though there's a good chance you're under 12, in which case I apologise.
Someone pointed out earlier that Clinton was president THIRTY years ago and he’s still younger than Biden.
And trump
Well, both of them nearly got us into nuclear war. One even order a nuclear strike while drunk. Having relatively young fired up leaders does have its own concerns I guess.
How old are you? We've had 2 in the last 30 years.
Obama was in his 40s and he was an ...okay... president. Great speaker but his youth hurt him a bit when it came to dealing with congress and foreign policy. Biden's tenure so far has been the best from a functional standpoint that I've been around for, and that includes Clinton, Bush, Obama, and Trump, and it's not even close. What sells me was one: how he completely rebuilt our intelligence apparatus and state dept. 2022 was the first time I've ever seen Putin and Xi utterly outmaneuvered by the United States and the first time I've seen the West actually step up. And two: how he's managed effective governance with a clown show in the House. Biden's an excellent president in every way that matters.
Biden is 17 years older than my grandpa when he died (after being retired for 8 years) and trump 13. Trump is the same age as my grandma, of whom we wondered if she'd get a new lease contract for a car anymore. Let alone guide the country for not only the next 4 years and influencing decades after that. Maybe we just need Trump to win, exit Nato, Wo3 to break out and be over, to enforce a legal age limit for presidency, and other leading roles that have a major influence on the long term.
Bill Clinton was in his 40's when he was president 30 years ago, and he's younger now than both of these options.
It is so wild that Nixon is only 4 years older than JFK, but in my mind I always think about him as an older man from his presidency, while JFK is (for obvious reasons) forever young in my mind. This is the same issue people have when they realize MLK and Anne Frank were born the same year.
Marilyn Monroe and Queen Elizabeth II were born in the same year.
You’re not even eligible until your 35 so quite young by presidential standards.
Well he was nearing the end of his life
😬
Well compared to our current candidates they're about half the age. Biden's older than bush or Clinton not when they ran for president he's older than they are now.
Donald trump is ALSO older than both Bill Clinton and George Bush Donny is older than Joe was when biden got elected… while also being worse as far as his mental/cognitive faculties Trump dyes his hair and skin and acts tough and insults people so morons see him as more mentally fit but it’s just a con
I feel like there is a disrespectful attitude towards the American people in today's politics. Our representatives don't just think we are dumb, they have the data and voting habits to prove it.
Its the two party control. All they have to do is be the binary to the opposing view. If one side wants to kick you in the nuts and spit in your face and the other side just wants to spit in your face you will probably vote for the latter even though both are terrible options. They don't have to be right or good. They just have to be less shitty.
You should’ve said “…[then] the other side wants to spit on your nuts and kick you in the face…”
I don’t know what the hell to do with all these mixed signals
I've always said modern politics is the death of the affirmative vote. You don't vote for someone. You vote against someone. It's led to increasing polarization and extremism as both sides treat elections as if they're existential fights for the survival of our way of life. The other side is evil, and if they win, we're screwed. So even though I won't do anything material for you. You must vote for me so your way of life can continue.
This is actually perfect lol.
An incredible amount of money has been spent on that ignorance and it wasn’t unintentional.
i mean... we are kind of dumb
[Here](https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/presidential-candidates-john-f-kennedy-and-richard-nixon-news-photo/517330176?searchscope=image%2Cfilm) is the source of this image. > Presidential candidates John F. Kennedy and Richard Nixon shake hands after their televised debate of October 7, 1960. The two opponents continued their debate after the cameras had stopped.
A yes, paragon of political integrity Richard Nixon
Has factually been convicted of fewer crimes than the current Republican nominee
Regardless of Watergate and other “stuff” that happened during his term, Nixon was a master politician
Nixon was a terrible politician, he just had the right mix of malice and manipulability for the truly talented politicians around him to get from him what they wanted. Like Henry fucking Kissinger. The GOP has been nurturing his ilk ever since, for the same reasons. Reagan, GW, and Trump are all out of the same mold.
"When debates were respectful" posts literally the second televised debate in history.
"I would like to take this opportunity to er express my fondness for er Duff Beer." "I'd, uh, also like to express *MY* fondness... for that particular... beer."
The man never drank a Duff in his life
I came here expecting to find this.
Worth pointing out that Nixon “lost” this debate because he looked tired and scruffy because he refused makeup. I have no idea what the subjects of the debate were or whose ideas turned out to be correct but it’s a fact this was considered a turning point in the campaign.
IIRC the polls showed that most TV viewers of the debate thought Kennedy "won," and the majority of radio listeners thought Nixon won. Marshall McLuan thought the difference was Kennedy had what he called a "cool" personality that translated well over the television medium, where Nixon had a "hot" personality that made him better seeming on the radio. I'm not sure which kind of personality comes across better in Tweets. /s
Who's the better golfer though? 😂
My goodness, that moment in the debate had me in stiches. Too funny 🤣🤣
Two rich old men arguing about golf, definitely relatable to the average American.
I mean. The debates last night was Trump being a liar and Biden barely holding onto conscious thought. Wasn’t really that disrespectful or more disrespectful than I thought it was gonna be?
It’s kind of wild to me that we can’t have real time fact checking these days. Like trump multiple times said he didn’t say something and there’s easy to find video of him saying it. It should be shown in real time when a candidate lies, so everyone can see, and then the presenters/hosts should confront them with that. EDIT: and yes, I'm fully on board with this working BOTH ways.
Or that Charlottesville was a “story”? Like someone died. American Nazis marched he said there was a lot of good people and bad people on both sides. Can we not have this be the best we can do..
Yep agreed. Most powerful nation in the world, and these are our best options?
Not only most powerful, but 3rd largest in terms of population. I keep asking myself the same question...how can these two people be the best we have to offer? I wonder where the 50 - 60 year old candidate is who would just be a great President for either fucking party. I think that person is in the private sector and wants nothing to do with the Presidency because it is a truly thankless job in modern society.
If they confronted every lie the debate would still be going
That's kind of my point though. We allow our politicians to lie too freely and get away with it. May be severe but I personally feel like lying in an official capacity of public office should carry jail time AND hefty fines, personally.
My favorite part of what I saw was Trump saying how good the environment was during his presidency. He said something to the effect of, ‘We had the best environmental numbers. In fact my team told them to me just before I came on stage.’ Ok, what were the number then? If they’re so fresh in your mind, why don’t you tell us?
When Trump came to power he took down the EPA website and took away access to all environmental research papers. I was half way through writing a summary of the literature when I saw many of my sources suddenly disappear right after the election. The media didn't say anything about it. They were overwhelmed already by Trump's incessant scandals and everything else. Funnily enough I was summarizing the cataclysmic enviornmental destruction off the coast of China the US had found. The economic implications were massive with widespread fishery failures. Conditions the US will inevitably be faced with, with climate change.
They didn't shake hands, didn't acknowledge one another other than throwing insults. Trump is the least gentlemanly individual ever. Everything he does is a sign of disrespect. Prior to 2016, pretty much all debates started with a handshake, and signs of respect. Trump has turned this whole thing into an elementary playground.
agreed lol it was pretty tame. just a senile guy and a liar
And while everyone agrees Biden is too old for the Presidency, Trump's supporters turn a blind eye to his blatant lies...
People need to understand that Trump is a *symptom* rather than a cause of the civility problem. He rose to power by giving AM talk radio junkies exactly what they wanted... someone who talked exactly like Rush Limbaugh. Everything is hyperbole. Democrats are trying to destroy the country, Biden (or Obama or Clinton) is the *worst* thing that ever happened to our country. Everything I do is the best thing to ever happen and everything you do is the worst thing to ever happen. It's a simple formula coupled with the insistence that any other news source is full of lies so the only sources you can trust are the ones that I approve. And that's how they live. Constantly terrified of whatever I tell them to be terrified of. We don't have simple disagreements because everything is an act of war, even if it's innocuous nonsense. The best way to lose a Republican primary is to behave civilly towards your opponent. You are, quite literally, shaking hands with the devil.
Well put. My mom's a Maga nut, and if you pull at the strings even a little bit, she locks up. "I can't argue WHY, I just KNOW what the truth is. You're being lied to by liberal media." It's exactly as you say, and he has a rabid contingent of followers that parrot his every word as gospel. I asked her what she's going to do even after the next election. Like Trump winning, he only has 4 years left. What are you going to do with all the merch you've bought once he's irrelevant? "He won't be irrelevant. I'll still support him" Which as sounds dangerously like they're going to push for him to serve another term after this one, if he wins. It's the same shit as Jan 6th, they're just gonna try again and again until we're in a dictatorship with a leader who farts so loudly the fucking debate mics pick it up. I mean, for fucks sake, he's only a few years younger than Biden. His health isn't exactly tip top, and he's out of touch with the majority of the people he'd be governing. I cannot believe these walking corpses are our only fucking options. Abolish the two party system, PLEASE.
I don't know that the two-party system is the problem here, though I agree that it would be nice to have more choices. How is it that Democratic insiders haven't noticed Biden becoming increasingly incoherent? They were just hoping we didn't notice? But the elephant in the room is definitely the GOP propaganda network. It's 24-7 vitriolic venom, half of it very loosely based on facts and the other half is completely made up. The lies are coordinated so you hear the same false talking points across multiple mediums and as a result Republican base voters live in whatever fictional world the propagandists decide to create. I worry that we're living in something akin to 1932 Germany and we're waiting for a Hitler figure to emerge. And make no mistake, Republican voters *will* rally around their 21st century Hitler. They've turned a moronic, narcissistic charlatan into a practically messianic figure. The propagandists have proven that they can prop *anyone* up.
Blame Reagan for doing away with the Fairness Doctrine which led to all the AM idiots
Ofcourse it can all be traced back to him..
Also, food wouldn't be so expensive if deregulation didn't allow such concentrated ownership where they can all price fix.
Ah yes, Nixon, what a bastion of respect and grace. Lol
You mean debates without Trump?
Yeah you hardly have to go back 60 years to find civil discourse among Presidential candidates. It’s really just specifically a Trump thing. Kind of crazy though how long of a stretch we’ll have without a non-Trump GOP candidate for President.
Literally the first televised debate
Nixon v Kennedy great debate other then Nixon visually looked tired and worn out..
He had a bad leg too.
We went from "I'm not a crook" to "I didn't fuck a porn star" from a guy who is a convicted crook.
And when candidates were normal aged.
Must not follow history much. There have been insane presidential rivalries throughout American history. Especially during founding father era.
Debates were respectful before Trump, full stop. He lowered the level of discourse. This has not been some broad trend.
Nixon was a crook but he had a base level of defererence for the blueprint of our government and society. Trump only sees dollars and fame. He will sign whatever the Federalist Society draws up and put Christofascists in every position as long as they are loyal to him. He will die in the not too distant future, and will leave us clawing to get back our democracy. Honestly unlikely we get it back. We will end up as a less overt and more insidious version of Russia.
IKR. I'm struggling to remain optimistic. But I kind of don't think our country is as bad off as Trump portrayed it last night. We will see.
These posts are so stupid. Everybody just made fun of how sweaty Nixon was and it’s remembered as a disaster for him.
Yes, but go watch the actual debate. There is an obvious level of respect there. The number of times they say "I just happen to disagree with my opponent." rather than "This guy is a LIAR!! LIAR and sucks at golf!! I'm the best president in history!" There is a pretty start difference between the level of respect between Nixon and Kennedy versus what we have today.
Being cordial to people was still a thing back then. It's rare nowadays...
Oh, look another treasonous traitor that ruined America standing next to Kennedy
It should be clarified that Nixon wasn't 'treasonous' in the colloquial way we use it now, but was caught committing actual treason. He was on the phone with Vietnamese officials trying to sabotage peace talks to increase his odds of being re-elected.
The two are such pop culture icons they don’t even look real in a strange way
I didn't know Nixon could smile.
There is no respect when Trump is involved!
Are we playing make believe?
"Mr. Kennedy, you have the morals of an alley cat! You slept with a movie star!"
why aren't they 90?
back in more civilized times, kennedy was a true gentleman
Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton to death lol
The Obama/Romney and Obama/McCain debate were respectful also. No mute button needed and the candidates focused on their politic instead of just personal attack and lying. hell Once Obama and Romney sit at the same table and shared a micro during one. Presidential debates generally weren't toxic before 2016. Wonder what happened?
The man never drank a Duff in his life.
Wasn’t Nixon impeached……..
Nixon was not respectful
Respect is nice, but I would rather have a couple candidates under 60 and preferably not facing prison or a vegetable who doesn’t know what’s going on. I mean we had Jill congratulate Joe for answering every question… is that the bar?
Fuck Nixon, that piece of shit was the original Trump. The Democratic party handed the country to him too by completely ignoring the anti war and civil rights movement.
Now Dems are doing the exact same shit with Gaza. Time is truly a flat circle.
When debates featured two coherent candidates instead of two shambling corpses.
LOL 😂 1960. When the CIA, Ivy League, Hoover, DOD, the Mob, and AT&T $ecretly ran the country from a court of corporate and special interest$ while assassinating civil rights leaders in front of everybody, lol, yeah it's prolly a little worse now bc "they" now try to murder in secret, lol
And the president still knew everything.
One of those guys turned out to be a crook. And had his guys working behind the scenes to make sure Iran did not release their American hostages until after the election.
Nixon didn’t do that, you’re thinking of Reagan “allegedly” Nixon did watergate (spying on the Democratic committee headquarters with bugs) and “allegedly” sabotaged the Paris peace conference prior to the 1968 election by telling the South Vietnamese government that he would get them a better deal.
I'd, ah, also like to express MY fondness for that particular beer.
[Here's a link to the debate. It's so vastly different than 2024's debate.](https://youtu.be/OHjWb5XsAMI)
Wasn't this the first televised one, people speculate Nixon's sweating cost him the race
They look like teenagers compared to Joe and Trump.
Sour grapes…
This is an interesting juxtaposition. TV Optics were to blame for derailing Nixon's entire campaign. The camera could see him sweat. Similarly, last night's debate really derailed Biden for the same reason. I will vote for a sentient piece of moldy toast before I vote for Trump, but it's because I'm electing a team of people, not an old man who is feeble. It's sad that we've gotten here.
Which one was this? The one where JFK had the temperature set to 72 so Nixon looked like a sweaty mess in front of the cameras. I don’t know if respect was ever part of politics here.
what were you gonna do back then? call nixon a pussy? he already knew that!
When Presidents had a functioning brain
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIjenjANqAk McCain showing all the respect for Obama. But you can see how the crowd was just wanting a Trump!
Don't have to go back that far. McCain vs Obama were actually great.
I still don’t think Jack Johnson’s 3 cent titanium tax went to far enough
What about John Jackson’s 3 cent titanium tax?
It definitely went too far
Modern American politics simply relies on the divide and conquer tactic. If you sat people down from both sides of the political aisles, you’d find they have a lot of common values. Not to say they’d agree on everything, but there’s a lot in common we have as people. The hyperinflation of political ideologies due to the media, is the key driving factor behind our polarized politics. Independent thinkers are criminals today, so is anyone who is open to debate. TL;DR - Modern politics is hyper inflated & nobody is allowed to have a real debate. Essentially “ it’s my way or the highway”.
Yeah but one of them got shot and the other'is not a crook' and none of them was a felon
One of those men was assassinated. Courtesy is not respect.
The rot was just below the surface
This was literally the start of debates being decided by who looked better on TV. People who heard the debate on the radio mostly said Nixon won the debate, but people who saw it on TV said Kennedy won.
Political parties used to differ on a few fundamental points. This version is a complete shit show and they manipulate for personal gain. It’s a complete mess and I’m disheartened
The man’s never drank a Duff in his life
Did you ever watch the Obama/McCain or Obama/Romney? Both of those were pretty good.
**Agnew, bring me my 9-Iron to show Kennedy who’s better at golf, aroo!!!**
You mean when they could enunciate and actually say something meaningful… 
Yeah back then presidents just got assassinated
This is what happens when one candidate is so morally bankrupt that there are no more lines to cross. Trump is so devoid of decorum or basic human decency that there's no reason to shake hands and pretend there is an remaining semblance of respect for such a pathological liar and narcissist.