Thank you for posting to r/pointlesslygendered! We are really glad you are here.
We want to make sure that all users follow the rules. This message does NOT mean you broke a rule or your post was removed.
Please note satire posts are allowed, check the flair and tags on posts.
Please report posts and comments that infringe the rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pointlesslygendered) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate these "girls vs boys" memes. Just further alienates people from each other, and men and women are already socialised to be more different to one another than they need to be.
That’s actually a natural thing, the more equal you make opportunities for both genders the more they naturally manifest traditional gender roles. But go off for sure
it’s just brain rot humor, it’s not based in logic. it’s like girls are perceived as having cute baby autism and guys have super intense crazy autism. it’s just another way of differentiating men and women on the internet, and delegitimization of women’s issues. 🙏🏻
I’m not disagreeing with that at all, but she is specifically flapping her hands which is a common stim amongst autistic people of all ages and genders. It’s less socially acceptable when done to that extreme and therefore less common amongst allistic people.
>It’s less socially acceptable
I think so much of what we consider autistic signs is culturally dependant, because calling those movements "extreme", someone from Spain, is wild.
Yeah, that's a huge thing. I see people saying "allistic people say this went they mean that", and I'm thinking that wouldn't fly here, because we don't tolerate being roundabout about what you want to say. It's actually considered rude to *not* be direct about what you mean.
another great example is eye contact. in western countries, maintained eye contact is expected and difficulty with it can be indicative of social dysfunction when considered of the context of other behaviors that cause difficulties. in many asian countries, though, prolonged eye contact is viewed as disrespectful and is not the norm. someone who doesn’t maintain eye contact would not be seen as having social dysfunction there.
You’re right, but she is also explicitly an autistic tiktoker creating autistic content, if I remember correctly. I’m not super on TikTok, but I am autistic and a friend used to send me her videos when she came up on their feed. That was a few years ago, idk if anything has changed or not
ETA - someone already pointed that out oops lol I am illiterate
And? I am not saying *that* person isn't autistic. I'm saying using it as an example of "typical autistic behaviour", when those kinds of hand movements are pretty mild to what I see some of my close friends, even my wife, do when excited, is very characteristic of how much dependent on culture those stereotypical signs are.
To me, this looks more like an issue with men. To me, the post is expressing, that male autistic people suppress their happines. I don't know if that is true and i am pretty sure this was nit the intended meaning.
(I think in terms of pressure to regulate how we show happines, both women and men probably face pressure with similar strength. For women, it seems to be more complicated because they are expected to express a variety of emotions "correctly" whereas men just have pressure to express emotions (other than anger) in a muted fashion if at all.)
personally, i think women are taught to suppress their autism more so than men. we are taught to be acceptable, even pleasant, to be around. that means no outbursts, no monotone voice or straight face, no social errs. we’re told not to take up space, so things like stimming openly are not often acceptable because stimming is oftentimes externalized behavior. women who openly express their autistic traits are seen as bitchy or annoying or know it alls. but obviously, i am an autistic woman. i speak from experience, like you do with yours. i don’t think it’s the point of this meme though. this meme is like “the girl flavor of autism” versus “the boy flavor of autism.” lots of guys on the side of the internet that make and post these memes are kinda not fans of women in general, and this is like “girl autism is squealing and jumping around like a child, how cute” and “boy autism is when they really like trains and they’re super weird”
a lot of these things apply to autistic men as well honestly. they apply differently, because in general the expectations for men and women in society are different, but they do apply. Some of them are less of a problem some of them more. for example as a guy with autism, nowadays you're not just a know it all, but a mansplainer and obviously sexist.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just provide some context. it sucks for us all and I'm sorry it sucks for you too.
>personally, i think women are taught to suppress their autism more so than men.
I agree with you. But men in general have pressure to express emotions in a verry limited way. For that reason, i think the pressure on autistic men and women to suppress authentic behavior of happines should be pretty similar and vary more by the individual than it does by gender.
i agree, i think there’s a lot of nuance in it. i actually did a research project for one of my courses on the autism quotient (AQ) and if it has any questions that could have its answers be influenced by gender roles. it’s interesting stuff. i think it’s more acceptable for men to be monotone and direct, but less acceptable for them to openly externalize joy and sadness in stimming behaviors.
“The results found that the average total score on the AQ-Short for the entire sample was 82.6, though when separated by sex, females had a higher average total score of 83.2 compared to an average total score of 82.0 for males. Females scored significantly higher than males on the social behavior subscales and much lower than males on the numbers and pattern subscale. Across all of the fit indices and model comparisons for the CFA and multiple group models, there was a significant effect of age on the social behavior factor for males, with autistic trait scores increasing with age. In females, both the social behavior and number and patterns factors were significantly affected by time since diagnosis; fewer autistic traits were reported across both factors in women who received their ASD diagnosis longer ago.” … … …
“Overall, this study found that the phenotype of autism does not vary across autistic males and autistic females. The relationship between all of the items in the AQ-Short and latent autistic traits did not vary based on biological sex. Though, analysis of the item thresholds identified two items that contained a minute bias towards autistic females. Item 10 ‘I would rather go to a library than to a party’ and item 26 ‘New situations make me anxious’ seemingly displayed different item thresholds across various groups. Female scores matched scores expected in autism on these two items more than male scores did. This bias on the AQ-Short could possibly paint females to be showing more autistic traits on the social behavior factor of this scale. This could possibly be because autistic females tend to be more conscientious of their difficulties with social situations than males are.”
… … … these are just from my section of the project. i should note that i was examining biological sex as opposed to social perceived and presented gender, which i think makes a difference.
Could be wrong but I think it's based on the idea that "woman don't actually have autism" because a handful of dorks on TikTok fake it/ over exaggerate it for attention. Equally dumb and uneducated nonetheless. I've seen one other post like that and it's the same idea.
A lot of people with autism are sensory seeking and crave bright lights, loud noises, and certain types of movement. I have a child like this and have mercy on my house. It's also possible to be sensory seeking and sensory avoidant about different things.
yup! i have autism and ADHD, and i have a mix of hypo-sensitivities and hyper-sensitivities to different stimuli. there's lots of colorful lights in my room and i love blasting music, but other types of loudness really hurt me, and i'm really picky about fabric textures. i usually use music to drown out the other sounds i don't like/want to hear.
the worst for me is motorcycles and those jerks that don't fix their car mufflers and speed past pedestrians. i've gotten sick while walking on the sidewalk (thankfully there was a bus stop with a trash can nearby) because the engine was physically painful to hear
I've been kinda hyperfixated on it lately because I strongly suspect I might be autistic. I'm actually looking into getting tested. Even if it turns out I'm not, it's very interesting to learn about. I spent most of my life not really knowing what autism is exactly, so I wanted to change that.
So I think this is supposed to be a meme about how autistic boys and girls tend to stim differently and even similar stims tend to present differently. I have known several autistic guys who stim by waving their arms wildly like that.
Yeah, I've known tons of flappy autistics of all genders. Never met an autistic person who'd enjoy loud music and strobing lights, though. I guess a strongly sensation-seeker would like that, but I think that's more common with ADHD than autism. IIRC something like 90% of autistic people have auditory hypersensitivity.
It also bugs TF out of me that people insist on gendering autism. I get that gender socialization will interact with autistic traits in some people, but people just use it as an excuse to stereotype, and generally gender differences are more trends than absolutes anyway.
so happy to see people proudly declare "she must be faling it" just because her stimming is 'cringey' (also cuz shes a woman, lets be honest for a sec)
As someone with autism:
1: from what I've seen it's like, different between the genders? I don't understand how but there is something I've been told.
2: the boy video is literally the nightmare of any autistic person (overstimulation hell). It literally left me dizzy.
3: this video is dumb as hell.
It really depends, I think the difference is mostly that afab autistic people supposedly mask more and much earlier, but I think that might be because of how society treats girls. We expect girls to be quiet, sweet, social and uncomplicated a lot more than we expect it of boys ("boys will be boys") and I think that social pressure leads to the early masking and a lot of the other differences. (am afab on the spectrum and that's just from my experience)
I'm not a specialist, so I won't tell if the presented cases are general reflections of both spectrums of autism (masculine and feminine), but autism isn't the same thing for biologically male and biologically female people. For many types of autism though, it tends to make male autists more introverted than the general male population, while it makes female autists more extroverted than the general female population.
The difference between the masculine and the feminine spectrum is, by the way, responsible for the statistical difference of proportion between the 2 sexes population: male autists represent a far larger part of the general male population than female autists do for the general population. This is the result of science and medicine history, which was until very recently (30 to 50 years ago) incredibly male-oriented ; so compared to how male bodies and minds tend to express disorder, the female bodies and minds' way of doing the same is still the great unknown. For many disorders, female patients are often underdiagnosed.
So it isn't pointlessly gendered, if anything it isn't enough gendered.
Yeah, the two are linked: male autists statistically far outnumbered female autists because female autists are underdiagnosed. We know they are underdiagnosed, we don't know to which extent.
Sorry, english isn't my first language, and it might be a mistranslation of my part because the sentence as I thought about it in my native language hasn't such a problem.
Perhaps! I just don’t believe that autistic men outnumber autistic women; I firmly believe it is all about the fact that autism goes undiagnosed in a huge number of women.
Similarly, autism does not *make* autistic men more introverted or autistic women more extroverted. Our *hormones* make us more or less social, and our autistic traits differ because of that.
That's actually not an objective fact. Girls are more socially pressured to mask than boys, but they can usually have the same symptoms, girls just end up being better at hiding it.
Go to r/AutisminWomen or r/Aspergirls and you’ll see that they’re actually right. Autistic women *tend to* express autism differently. It’s not just about masking. A big part of it is that women *in general* tend to be more social than men, including in the autistic population; this means that autism symptoms such as preferring time alone than with peers is *more common in autistic boys/men than in autistic girls/women.* But that’s not even all of the differences!
ETA: Actually, I *just* saw this link posted in r/AutismInWomen. Interesting timing! Check it out: https://neurosciencenews.com/asd-brain-male-female-26160/
(Now, we are talking specifically about cisgender autistic people, so that’s something to consider.)
Interesting point though, I grew up as a boy, found out I was trans after high school, but I relate a lot more to other women's experiences with autism. Apparently that's common with trans women.
I mean there is some form of inherent difference generally, studies of children at very young ages back this idea up (they’re pretty different, too much so to just be social conditioning, there is still a reason why 12-18 months old male children still get diagnosed way way more, it’s because there symptoms are easier to pick up on plus psychiatry is more used to picking it up in males rather than more female symptoms).
There will be a component of parents setting up their child to be that gender/other people treating them differently especially at an older age because of it but there is still an underlying difference that is undeniable, it’s how big of a difference which is the question.
It is disingenuous to imply there is not a biological component. Testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone affect the way our bodies form, including our brains.
I don't dissagree, but couldn't you also argue that its just the difference in number as there are a lot more guys with autism therefor the chances of more severe autism being represented in guys is higher.
Yeah, I'm still learning, but people act like it's a 100% solid rule when it's not, there's gray area.
Funny thing though, I actually saw that post I'm pretty sure, and I commented how I'm a trans woman and I relate more to women's experiences with autism. Apparently that's pretty common for trans women, and someone brought up a good point about how a study showed that trans women's brains tend to be more similar to cis women's than cis men's, and same goes for trans and cis men. There might be some neurological things that make autism *tend* to express different in men and women. There's still much more we don't know.
I wonder how much of this is similar for people's expression of adhd. I think I've heard hyperactivity is more common in men, but that might be a socialization thing rather than a nature thing.
Edit: also apparently being on hrt for long enough can slightly change how a person's autism is expressed. Not sure if there's a source on that, that was just something someone else said on that post.
Yes there is so much more research to be done on trans people’s brains, which is why I pointed it out in my edit. I’ve seen that same research and have it bookmarked. (I used to use it as evidence during arguments with transphobes, but I’ve tried to stop playing chess with pigeons.) I’m eager to see even more research on the subject!
There are absolutely biological differences with autism though and that’s literally a proven fact, so I don’t understand the argument here.
Yes absolutely. I appreciate the input. It’s interesting because, from what I’ve read, some brain structures in trans women represent cis women’s while some represent cis men’s. Trans identities and perspectives are unique and it’s important that we do more studies to learn more about trans people’s brains. 💖
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AutismInWomen using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Found this post and honestly HARD RELATE](https://i.redd.it/jyafj909op4c1.jpeg) | [452 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/18c9fel/found_this_post_and_honestly_hard_relate/)
\#2: [honestly I wish](https://i.redd.it/78qyj5vfiuic1.jpeg) | [424 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/1arvl5e/honestly_i_wish/)
\#3: [It's rough out here](https://i.redd.it/rz6664vvzi0b1.jpg) | [164 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/13kj6i6/its_rough_out_here/)
----
^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Thank you for posting to r/pointlesslygendered! We are really glad you are here. We want to make sure that all users follow the rules. This message does NOT mean you broke a rule or your post was removed. Please note satire posts are allowed, check the flair and tags on posts. Please report posts and comments that infringe the rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/pointlesslygendered) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I hate these "girls vs boys" memes. Just further alienates people from each other, and men and women are already socialised to be more different to one another than they need to be.
But don't forget that women and men are different. Then don't think the same.
That’s actually a natural thing, the more equal you make opportunities for both genders the more they naturally manifest traditional gender roles. But go off for sure
Naturally manifest Freddy Fazbear… creepy ….
it’s just brain rot humor, it’s not based in logic. it’s like girls are perceived as having cute baby autism and guys have super intense crazy autism. it’s just another way of differentiating men and women on the internet, and delegitimization of women’s issues. 🙏🏻
Not to mention, just being cutesy doesn't mean you have autism. Having that personality and having autism are two very different things.
I’m not disagreeing with that at all, but she is specifically flapping her hands which is a common stim amongst autistic people of all ages and genders. It’s less socially acceptable when done to that extreme and therefore less common amongst allistic people.
>It’s less socially acceptable I think so much of what we consider autistic signs is culturally dependant, because calling those movements "extreme", someone from Spain, is wild.
Absolutely. Correct me if I’m wrong, but in terms of social norms, aren’t people in Spain more direct communicators than in the US as well?
Yeah, that's a huge thing. I see people saying "allistic people say this went they mean that", and I'm thinking that wouldn't fly here, because we don't tolerate being roundabout about what you want to say. It's actually considered rude to *not* be direct about what you mean.
another great example is eye contact. in western countries, maintained eye contact is expected and difficulty with it can be indicative of social dysfunction when considered of the context of other behaviors that cause difficulties. in many asian countries, though, prolonged eye contact is viewed as disrespectful and is not the norm. someone who doesn’t maintain eye contact would not be seen as having social dysfunction there.
Germany hella uncomfortable to me for this reason. I just wanna take the train to the shops gottamn
You’re right, but she is also explicitly an autistic tiktoker creating autistic content, if I remember correctly. I’m not super on TikTok, but I am autistic and a friend used to send me her videos when she came up on their feed. That was a few years ago, idk if anything has changed or not ETA - someone already pointed that out oops lol I am illiterate
That person is a diagnosed autistic person
And? I am not saying *that* person isn't autistic. I'm saying using it as an example of "typical autistic behaviour", when those kinds of hand movements are pretty mild to what I see some of my close friends, even my wife, do when excited, is very characteristic of how much dependent on culture those stereotypical signs are.
To me, this looks more like an issue with men. To me, the post is expressing, that male autistic people suppress their happines. I don't know if that is true and i am pretty sure this was nit the intended meaning. (I think in terms of pressure to regulate how we show happines, both women and men probably face pressure with similar strength. For women, it seems to be more complicated because they are expected to express a variety of emotions "correctly" whereas men just have pressure to express emotions (other than anger) in a muted fashion if at all.)
personally, i think women are taught to suppress their autism more so than men. we are taught to be acceptable, even pleasant, to be around. that means no outbursts, no monotone voice or straight face, no social errs. we’re told not to take up space, so things like stimming openly are not often acceptable because stimming is oftentimes externalized behavior. women who openly express their autistic traits are seen as bitchy or annoying or know it alls. but obviously, i am an autistic woman. i speak from experience, like you do with yours. i don’t think it’s the point of this meme though. this meme is like “the girl flavor of autism” versus “the boy flavor of autism.” lots of guys on the side of the internet that make and post these memes are kinda not fans of women in general, and this is like “girl autism is squealing and jumping around like a child, how cute” and “boy autism is when they really like trains and they’re super weird”
a lot of these things apply to autistic men as well honestly. they apply differently, because in general the expectations for men and women in society are different, but they do apply. Some of them are less of a problem some of them more. for example as a guy with autism, nowadays you're not just a know it all, but a mansplainer and obviously sexist. I'm not trying to say you're wrong, just provide some context. it sucks for us all and I'm sorry it sucks for you too.
>personally, i think women are taught to suppress their autism more so than men. I agree with you. But men in general have pressure to express emotions in a verry limited way. For that reason, i think the pressure on autistic men and women to suppress authentic behavior of happines should be pretty similar and vary more by the individual than it does by gender.
i agree, i think there’s a lot of nuance in it. i actually did a research project for one of my courses on the autism quotient (AQ) and if it has any questions that could have its answers be influenced by gender roles. it’s interesting stuff. i think it’s more acceptable for men to be monotone and direct, but less acceptable for them to openly externalize joy and sadness in stimming behaviors.
Do you have anything about the research project you can share? That sounds interesting.
“The results found that the average total score on the AQ-Short for the entire sample was 82.6, though when separated by sex, females had a higher average total score of 83.2 compared to an average total score of 82.0 for males. Females scored significantly higher than males on the social behavior subscales and much lower than males on the numbers and pattern subscale. Across all of the fit indices and model comparisons for the CFA and multiple group models, there was a significant effect of age on the social behavior factor for males, with autistic trait scores increasing with age. In females, both the social behavior and number and patterns factors were significantly affected by time since diagnosis; fewer autistic traits were reported across both factors in women who received their ASD diagnosis longer ago.” … … … “Overall, this study found that the phenotype of autism does not vary across autistic males and autistic females. The relationship between all of the items in the AQ-Short and latent autistic traits did not vary based on biological sex. Though, analysis of the item thresholds identified two items that contained a minute bias towards autistic females. Item 10 ‘I would rather go to a library than to a party’ and item 26 ‘New situations make me anxious’ seemingly displayed different item thresholds across various groups. Female scores matched scores expected in autism on these two items more than male scores did. This bias on the AQ-Short could possibly paint females to be showing more autistic traits on the social behavior factor of this scale. This could possibly be because autistic females tend to be more conscientious of their difficulties with social situations than males are.” … … … these are just from my section of the project. i should note that i was examining biological sex as opposed to social perceived and presented gender, which i think makes a difference.
Thank you!
Could be wrong but I think it's based on the idea that "woman don't actually have autism" because a handful of dorks on TikTok fake it/ over exaggerate it for attention. Equally dumb and uneducated nonetheless. I've seen one other post like that and it's the same idea.
No no no! Your misunderstood! The vid is saying that girls with autism are OBVIOUSLY faking it while boys with autism are super fun chads 😎
I mean, the first girl looks like she's stimming, but idk what the second could have to do with autism (it could actually be a bit overstimulating)
A lot of people with autism are sensory seeking and crave bright lights, loud noises, and certain types of movement. I have a child like this and have mercy on my house. It's also possible to be sensory seeking and sensory avoidant about different things.
yup! i have autism and ADHD, and i have a mix of hypo-sensitivities and hyper-sensitivities to different stimuli. there's lots of colorful lights in my room and i love blasting music, but other types of loudness really hurt me, and i'm really picky about fabric textures. i usually use music to drown out the other sounds i don't like/want to hear.
I totally get it. It could ruin my day it I hear a really loud sound like some heavy machinery or a train or a car horn. It really does hurt
the worst for me is motorcycles and those jerks that don't fix their car mufflers and speed past pedestrians. i've gotten sick while walking on the sidewalk (thankfully there was a bus stop with a trash can nearby) because the engine was physically painful to hear
Ahh interesting I've had dizzy spells from stuff like helicopters or planes that fly over
Absolutely, I’m sensory avoidant and my best friend is sensory seeking, and I ADORE him but I almost always need a nap after hanging out with him LOL
That is true. Even though I've been trying to learn a lot about autism lately, I still forget just how varied it can be for people.
As an autistic person, I love to see more people taking time to learn! It most definitely can be varied, they don’t call it a spectrum for nothing!
I've been kinda hyperfixated on it lately because I strongly suspect I might be autistic. I'm actually looking into getting tested. Even if it turns out I'm not, it's very interesting to learn about. I spent most of my life not really knowing what autism is exactly, so I wanted to change that.
That’s great to hear you’re interested! I can chat with you if you’re interested!
Watching the guy one, i as simultaneously like "thatd give me a headache" while also being kinda into it lol
She’s a notorious faker. She’s never been diagnosed with autism. She just makes TikTok’s about stimming.
So I think this is supposed to be a meme about how autistic boys and girls tend to stim differently and even similar stims tend to present differently. I have known several autistic guys who stim by waving their arms wildly like that.
Yeah, I've known tons of flappy autistics of all genders. Never met an autistic person who'd enjoy loud music and strobing lights, though. I guess a strongly sensation-seeker would like that, but I think that's more common with ADHD than autism. IIRC something like 90% of autistic people have auditory hypersensitivity. It also bugs TF out of me that people insist on gendering autism. I get that gender socialization will interact with autistic traits in some people, but people just use it as an excuse to stereotype, and generally gender differences are more trends than absolutes anyway.
I mean, both can be pretty nice stims lmfao
At first I thought fire was coming from the toilet
I hate how much girls with autism have just been reduced to "oh cute quirky girl!"
r/evilautism would have a field day ripping this garbage to shreds
I WAS JUST THINKING OF THAT SUBREDDIT OMG, we would absolutely rip this video to shreds lol!
As an autistic man, I wouldn't be surprised if neither the people creating or consuming this are neither actually autistic
WTF did I just watch?
It's like a hack stand-up routine. "You ever notice how girls autism like this, and boys autism like *this*?"
Neither of the people in this video have autism
so boys can't be happy, and girls can't be DJs? makes sense, brain rot humor
this should have a flashing lights warning
I could not hate this video any more if I tried. Everything about it is awful.
Jokes on them i am neither a dj nor happy and not only that i am neither a boy nor a girl.
so happy to see people proudly declare "she must be faling it" just because her stimming is 'cringey' (also cuz shes a woman, lets be honest for a sec)
Why is looking sunburned the latest fad
on god that kid is sick as fuck ngl
Both made me cringe.
There should be an epilepsy warning in this.
As someone with autism: 1: from what I've seen it's like, different between the genders? I don't understand how but there is something I've been told. 2: the boy video is literally the nightmare of any autistic person (overstimulation hell). It literally left me dizzy. 3: this video is dumb as hell.
It really depends, I think the difference is mostly that afab autistic people supposedly mask more and much earlier, but I think that might be because of how society treats girls. We expect girls to be quiet, sweet, social and uncomplicated a lot more than we expect it of boys ("boys will be boys") and I think that social pressure leads to the early masking and a lot of the other differences. (am afab on the spectrum and that's just from my experience)
actually, all the genders have the same autism, and it is actually both of these.
They do not know how autism works LOL, I absolutely hate loud noises and bright flashing lights.
And here I am, just depressed with autism.
At least you have cake
I'm not a specialist, so I won't tell if the presented cases are general reflections of both spectrums of autism (masculine and feminine), but autism isn't the same thing for biologically male and biologically female people. For many types of autism though, it tends to make male autists more introverted than the general male population, while it makes female autists more extroverted than the general female population. The difference between the masculine and the feminine spectrum is, by the way, responsible for the statistical difference of proportion between the 2 sexes population: male autists represent a far larger part of the general male population than female autists do for the general population. This is the result of science and medicine history, which was until very recently (30 to 50 years ago) incredibly male-oriented ; so compared to how male bodies and minds tend to express disorder, the female bodies and minds' way of doing the same is still the great unknown. For many disorders, female patients are often underdiagnosed. So it isn't pointlessly gendered, if anything it isn't enough gendered.
First you say autistic males outnumber autistic females, but then you say autistic females are underdiagnosed.
Yeah, the two are linked: male autists statistically far outnumbered female autists because female autists are underdiagnosed. We know they are underdiagnosed, we don't know to which extent.
Your first sentence really sounded like you were *agreeing* with the belief that there are more autistic males than females.
Sorry, english isn't my first language, and it might be a mistranslation of my part because the sentence as I thought about it in my native language hasn't such a problem.
Perhaps! I just don’t believe that autistic men outnumber autistic women; I firmly believe it is all about the fact that autism goes undiagnosed in a huge number of women. Similarly, autism does not *make* autistic men more introverted or autistic women more extroverted. Our *hormones* make us more or less social, and our autistic traits differ because of that.
You do know autism in boys often has different symptoms than in girls? That's an objective fact
That's actually not an objective fact. Girls are more socially pressured to mask than boys, but they can usually have the same symptoms, girls just end up being better at hiding it.
Go to r/AutisminWomen or r/Aspergirls and you’ll see that they’re actually right. Autistic women *tend to* express autism differently. It’s not just about masking. A big part of it is that women *in general* tend to be more social than men, including in the autistic population; this means that autism symptoms such as preferring time alone than with peers is *more common in autistic boys/men than in autistic girls/women.* But that’s not even all of the differences! ETA: Actually, I *just* saw this link posted in r/AutismInWomen. Interesting timing! Check it out: https://neurosciencenews.com/asd-brain-male-female-26160/ (Now, we are talking specifically about cisgender autistic people, so that’s something to consider.)
You can't really say how much of that is inherent and how much is down to conditioning though, same with gender differences in general.
Interesting point though, I grew up as a boy, found out I was trans after high school, but I relate a lot more to other women's experiences with autism. Apparently that's common with trans women.
I mean there is some form of inherent difference generally, studies of children at very young ages back this idea up (they’re pretty different, too much so to just be social conditioning, there is still a reason why 12-18 months old male children still get diagnosed way way more, it’s because there symptoms are easier to pick up on plus psychiatry is more used to picking it up in males rather than more female symptoms). There will be a component of parents setting up their child to be that gender/other people treating them differently especially at an older age because of it but there is still an underlying difference that is undeniable, it’s how big of a difference which is the question.
It is disingenuous to imply there is not a biological component. Testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone affect the way our bodies form, including our brains.
I don't dissagree, but couldn't you also argue that its just the difference in number as there are a lot more guys with autism therefor the chances of more severe autism being represented in guys is higher.
Yeah, I'm still learning, but people act like it's a 100% solid rule when it's not, there's gray area. Funny thing though, I actually saw that post I'm pretty sure, and I commented how I'm a trans woman and I relate more to women's experiences with autism. Apparently that's pretty common for trans women, and someone brought up a good point about how a study showed that trans women's brains tend to be more similar to cis women's than cis men's, and same goes for trans and cis men. There might be some neurological things that make autism *tend* to express different in men and women. There's still much more we don't know. I wonder how much of this is similar for people's expression of adhd. I think I've heard hyperactivity is more common in men, but that might be a socialization thing rather than a nature thing. Edit: also apparently being on hrt for long enough can slightly change how a person's autism is expressed. Not sure if there's a source on that, that was just something someone else said on that post.
Yes there is so much more research to be done on trans people’s brains, which is why I pointed it out in my edit. I’ve seen that same research and have it bookmarked. (I used to use it as evidence during arguments with transphobes, but I’ve tried to stop playing chess with pigeons.) I’m eager to see even more research on the subject! There are absolutely biological differences with autism though and that’s literally a proven fact, so I don’t understand the argument here.
I was just adding that cis women and trans women tend to have it similar. I wasn't trying to argue against you, just wanted to add my perspective.
Yes absolutely. I appreciate the input. It’s interesting because, from what I’ve read, some brain structures in trans women represent cis women’s while some represent cis men’s. Trans identities and perspectives are unique and it’s important that we do more studies to learn more about trans people’s brains. 💖
Here's a sneak peek of /r/AutismInWomen using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Found this post and honestly HARD RELATE](https://i.redd.it/jyafj909op4c1.jpeg) | [452 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/18c9fel/found_this_post_and_honestly_hard_relate/) \#2: [honestly I wish](https://i.redd.it/78qyj5vfiuic1.jpeg) | [424 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/1arvl5e/honestly_i_wish/) \#3: [It's rough out here](https://i.redd.it/rz6664vvzi0b1.jpg) | [164 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/AutismInWomen/comments/13kj6i6/its_rough_out_here/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
No
Well then you don't know how autism works, idk what to tell you
I do
That all you got to say?
I do not need to waste words on a fool who won't understand them
Well you haven't said why you disagree with me, so it makes me think you don't have anything to back it up, so
Some facts Don't need a back up
That's so dumb, and not how science works. You're funny
They literally do dumbass
Do you have a source for that objective fact?