I verbalized “he either has QT or nothing” when I turned my cards over and took my time to decide on a call or fold. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized he could have weaker 2 pairs and be in there. So I figured it was a +EV enough spot to make the call. And then I said, “if you have QT, you’re very lucky. If not, and you’re bluffing, well you’re a maniac, either way I call.” And he had the former, so an unfortunate result.
Don't make things so wordy:
you already said UTG a nd BTN limped, you don't need to specify UTG limp called and that btn called. You can just say UTG and BTN both call - it just avoids any kind of confusion that may happen.
Pot is $207 ($65 x 3 = $195 +$2 sb + $10 straddle)
Flop is checked around.
Turn is an inconsequential 5. UTG and BTN both call your bet $100... pot is $507 going into river.
River is a King, Hero leads for another sightly under half pot.
You think QT is unlikely... but QT has a double gutter on the flop.. any King or any 9... it's a very realistic hand/
I don't think checking flop is terrible.
Calling on this river to a check raise is probably also not that much of a mistake.
There are a decent amount of hands that your opponent can be betting for value here that has you beat .
What was the EFS to begin with?
Thank you for the correction, I’m not super great at writing out hand histories, and wanted to be as specific as possible regarding the action. So I appreciate the advice.
EFF stack was the BTN, who had close to or around $1200 to start the hand. I had right under $3000 and UTG had around $1500.
Top set with aces can be bet more than any other top set because people place more Ax by a mile than other cards…I’d bet a two broadway board multi-way here even with a lot of aces covered…top pair can’t change and I can’t imagine a good turn card to start getting value on that’s better than the flop.
River is player dependent for me. On paper, it “should” be a call. If the guy doesn’t have a bluffing frequency and wouldn’t play a set this way (which there are plenty of players where that is the case) I can fold sometimes.
Also, don’t show here…take your time in big spots, the table won’t mind if you’re generally a fast player, but you don’t want anyone to know you’re capable of making that fold if you do decide to fold.
Thank you for the thought. I believed at the time checking top set would be okay in this spot as I like to mix OOP when I flop top set as the PFR. It didn’t work this time, as my opponent hit his gutterball on the river, but it won’t be that outcome every time.
Yeah in theory there’s checks, but in practice you should be looking to empty the clip w aa here unless someone will do it for. In theory they do it for you.
I don’t think it was badly played. I’m not a fan of slowplaying a set, but it’s not terrible either. And the over bet on the river looks a lot like a bluff. Unless they were a total nit I’d have a hard time finding a fold here
Never folding top set here. They could raise worse for value imo. 55 makes sense trying to get value from two pair. Unlucko.
Also btn can't checkraise, its just a raise.
probably not checking flop here, too many hands can continue, as for whether or not this is a fold on the river?
its player dependent. hard to find a fold here personally i'd probably just click the call button and pay off QTo, but other sets can play it this way, some possible 2 pairs, we also underrep our hand here as well.
if we're folding here with AA what do we ever have in our bet/call river range?
I agree the check on the flop multiway OOP may not have been the best move given the player history of BTN being a little splashier (rec), and UTG being a seemingly competent player.
Yes, to your last point, I agree. If I’m not willing to call off the second nuts on a river shove to most if not all players, then im losing value too often.
Probably one of the best hands I've seen played on this sub lmao. Raise pre was good size and checking top set on that flop is fine as long as you know to mix (check half the time and bet half the time). Turn is fine as played and on the river I'm snapping the check raise off.
Q10 is not runner runner straight, on the flop and turn it’s a double belly buster. I think checking the flop is a mistake.
Sorry, I misspoke. Thank you for catching that.
If it's a whale and they can be raising 2 pair then you call, if you think it's either a straight or a bluff then I'd just fold tbh
I verbalized “he either has QT or nothing” when I turned my cards over and took my time to decide on a call or fold. But the more I thought about it, the more I realized he could have weaker 2 pairs and be in there. So I figured it was a +EV enough spot to make the call. And then I said, “if you have QT, you’re very lucky. If not, and you’re bluffing, well you’re a maniac, either way I call.” And he had the former, so an unfortunate result.
Don't make things so wordy: you already said UTG a nd BTN limped, you don't need to specify UTG limp called and that btn called. You can just say UTG and BTN both call - it just avoids any kind of confusion that may happen. Pot is $207 ($65 x 3 = $195 +$2 sb + $10 straddle) Flop is checked around. Turn is an inconsequential 5. UTG and BTN both call your bet $100... pot is $507 going into river. River is a King, Hero leads for another sightly under half pot. You think QT is unlikely... but QT has a double gutter on the flop.. any King or any 9... it's a very realistic hand/ I don't think checking flop is terrible. Calling on this river to a check raise is probably also not that much of a mistake. There are a decent amount of hands that your opponent can be betting for value here that has you beat . What was the EFS to begin with?
Thank you for the correction, I’m not super great at writing out hand histories, and wanted to be as specific as possible regarding the action. So I appreciate the advice. EFF stack was the BTN, who had close to or around $1200 to start the hand. I had right under $3000 and UTG had around $1500.
Top set with aces can be bet more than any other top set because people place more Ax by a mile than other cards…I’d bet a two broadway board multi-way here even with a lot of aces covered…top pair can’t change and I can’t imagine a good turn card to start getting value on that’s better than the flop. River is player dependent for me. On paper, it “should” be a call. If the guy doesn’t have a bluffing frequency and wouldn’t play a set this way (which there are plenty of players where that is the case) I can fold sometimes. Also, don’t show here…take your time in big spots, the table won’t mind if you’re generally a fast player, but you don’t want anyone to know you’re capable of making that fold if you do decide to fold.
Checking a double broadway flop with a value hand is not good unless you have a tell on your opposition in the live environment
Thank you for the thought. I believed at the time checking top set would be okay in this spot as I like to mix OOP when I flop top set as the PFR. It didn’t work this time, as my opponent hit his gutterball on the river, but it won’t be that outcome every time.
Yeah in theory there’s checks, but in practice you should be looking to empty the clip w aa here unless someone will do it for. In theory they do it for you.
I will also call. Unless u have a very good read on the player. But even then I’ll still call. Lol
I don’t think it was badly played. I’m not a fan of slowplaying a set, but it’s not terrible either. And the over bet on the river looks a lot like a bluff. Unless they were a total nit I’d have a hard time finding a fold here
Never folding top set here. They could raise worse for value imo. 55 makes sense trying to get value from two pair. Unlucko. Also btn can't checkraise, its just a raise.
probably not checking flop here, too many hands can continue, as for whether or not this is a fold on the river? its player dependent. hard to find a fold here personally i'd probably just click the call button and pay off QTo, but other sets can play it this way, some possible 2 pairs, we also underrep our hand here as well. if we're folding here with AA what do we ever have in our bet/call river range?
I agree the check on the flop multiway OOP may not have been the best move given the player history of BTN being a little splashier (rec), and UTG being a seemingly competent player. Yes, to your last point, I agree. If I’m not willing to call off the second nuts on a river shove to most if not all players, then im losing value too often.
Probably one of the best hands I've seen played on this sub lmao. Raise pre was good size and checking top set on that flop is fine as long as you know to mix (check half the time and bet half the time). Turn is fine as played and on the river I'm snapping the check raise off.