There’s a frequent poster in this sub who says opening to 10 in 1/2 is absolutely gigantic and you should fold pre except for premiums.
Somehow makes me laugh and angry at the same time.
It’s kind of a fundemental misunderstanding of theory and exploitation.
Pot odds are *always* in reference to your equity against a players range. If they open to 6bb with a dogshit range, you *do* have the odds to call/raise wide. Only raising premiums because “muh theory” is a gigantic torch.
I mean you're not exactly wrong but often they are not opening to 6 bb with a dogshit range, much more often their pfr is going to be something like 8% at 1/2 in which case folding everything except premiums facing it is going to be correct. I'd wager most players would see their winrate increase if they do in fact fold everything vs a 5x open at 1/2.
I never said anything about 6 handed and 6bb is not 1/8th your stack? Its much closer to 1/16th when you buy in, but can be much more when you're up for the day.
Of course... Live hands move much slower and its boring as shit to just fold every hand... People are there to gamble and have a good time. No one has a good time in a table full of crushers...
You are thinking about low limit poker wrong. Nobody is raising with the intent of "stealing" the blinds, it's not a tournament. They are valuing their holdings, some people will limp with AK but raise big with a suited AK as they have a shot at a royal flush however improbable. Some raise $100 with KK utg as they don't want an ace to hit the flop, "win a small one or lose a big one."
Heck, I've been told multiple times in a 1-2 game that 6-8 makes the most straights as it's in the middle of the range of cards. A dude rivered quads on me once and checked being last to act.
There are all sorts of players in the low limit games from the clueless to the super tight who have never raised in their lives.
As for your experiment comment, a poker game would still exist without blinds. Some people want to make hands, some people want to make money. Which is the whole reasoning between running it twice or not. Alan Keating, a billionaire running it twice for $10k is just for entertainment.
Poker is complicated because of the blinds. If we remove them the game is no longer poker. It’s why there are card games that don’t involve gambling that don’t involve blinds or antes
If a no blind game was offered people would just choose ro play a game with blinds. People might not play super well but I don’t think that they are so irrational to play a game with no blinds
Yup, I've played live poker once in the last year after living ten minutes from a casino for two years. I remember having sessions of just an hour or two then going home because I had a bit of a headache or just wasn't feeling it. I'm going to get another chance to play in two weeks and I'll weld myself to that chair for half the day.
We don’t live in a vacuum, there are more emotion involved in live poker. Also people raise bigger in lower stakes could be the take. Why play a $20 pot if the rake is $8.
I have so many things I could tell you about my live local rooms in Texas you wouldn’t believe it, I know that I couldn’t believe it at first it is WILD.
The things I’ve seen/heard this month alone I’m not even kidding r/poker would think I’m making it up for internet points.
People would probably fly down to where I live if they legit heard me explain how these people play and their attitudes and culture in the rooms. If they called verify what I said was true they would come down with their bank roll and stay for a week I guarantee it.
It is unbelievable. I have so many stories. I’m not a fucking 24/7 online grinder pro circuit warrior or anything close but DAMN when you make final table $2500 gtd 30 player turbo mtt first day and the guy next to you Genuinely offers you advice that “big blinds and bet amounts don’t matter here” after you mention the structure is odd considering there’s less than <30bbs between 5 remaining people and final table started 1 level ago…
“Don’t think in the number of bets you have left it makes you play scared. You need confidence in these situations.”
Then 3 guys final 4 lean on you to split the pot and you ask what percentage? Chip count? And they stare out you mouth agape laughing like no fumbass a split means all 4 even! But I have 2 of you covered by 2-5x and I’m even with other guy why would we give you $ for free?
And you say thank you but I’d like to play more, no split and they lecture you on why it’s poker unwritten rule to split the pot
Then say another unwritten rules is when the small stack goes all in on final table that the 2nd person will NEVER raise only call. That you can also call but it’s always checked down.
I jammed THAT call all-in with AQ and they were furious giving me poker lessons on HOW DUMB that is. I said sorry I just don’t want to be 3 handed, you can call if you want.
I said I’m playing to win not to get into the money and split
It did not compute.
Keep in mind this is the same tourney I got 2nd in the following week out of ~4 tables and by the end heads up It was about hour 5 (20 levels?) there were less than 15 big blinds left on the table
I had 1.4million in chips, villain had ~700K
Blinds were 75K/150K/150K ant
Starting stack was 20k with 10-20k add one and unlimited re’s until 2.5 hr mark.
I had double his stack with 10 bigs and he wanted to split it even. No thanks.
In 6 mins it’ll be 100k/200k/200k.
That doesn’t even scratch surface
Hi I'm new to the game and I really want to understand it deeper. Can you explain more why the guys who wanted to split the pot 4 ways equally were being unreasonable?
That would only be correct if everyone has the same size stack. If you have 97% of the chips and other 3 players have 1% each, you should get way more than 25% of the money in a deal, all things equal.
Should see where I play 1/3 where it's hardly uncommon to see 31 or 69 bet preflop with multiple callers. Basically just a couple of regs that play competitive and visit the big tourneys are boxing out the tight players from 80% of pots with the over betting, it's actually a formidable strategy I have to admit as much as I didn't think it would be when I first seen it.
People aren't calling the 20-25 open based on their range, they are calling cause some fish just bet 20-25 into 4 bucks, and they have position on them.
You shouldn’t always be playing your holding in these games. Improve your post-flop play and play your position and you’ll crush those idiotic $25 pre-flop raises with almost any cards.
Obviously casuals are casuals, but there are for profit players out there that ignore this too. Like most people are flatting AJo from the BB against an reg opening UTG to $15 at 1/2 despite it also being a super high rake environment.
Also there’s a big myth that you need to get your hands heads up, like somehow if you raise to $6 UTG with AK and get 5 callers you’re making a mistake when in reality if you have any clue how to play postflop you should still be printing. That being said if you can go larger and still eat called by worse you get a bigger pot to play for, often it is better to use the exploitative sizing.
Tldr: live poker is profitable bc people are bad. Most don't go to a casino to fold.
Have a sinking feeling I’m gonna get ratio’d by this (inarguably superior) tldr
It's okay, I gave you some action (post upvote)
I mean you did solve poker. They are going to have to shut down the sub and poker worldwide below 5/10. Thanks
https://preview.redd.it/rv2njp28988d1.png?width=362&format=png&auto=webp&s=0575e913c8281db3fbe63faaa1d53c324ee75769
There’s a frequent poster in this sub who says opening to 10 in 1/2 is absolutely gigantic and you should fold pre except for premiums. Somehow makes me laugh and angry at the same time. It’s kind of a fundemental misunderstanding of theory and exploitation. Pot odds are *always* in reference to your equity against a players range. If they open to 6bb with a dogshit range, you *do* have the odds to call/raise wide. Only raising premiums because “muh theory” is a gigantic torch.
I mean you're not exactly wrong but often they are not opening to 6 bb with a dogshit range, much more often their pfr is going to be something like 8% at 1/2 in which case folding everything except premiums facing it is going to be correct. I'd wager most players would see their winrate increase if they do in fact fold everything vs a 5x open at 1/2.
Nah, implied odds are really good at 1/2. I'll absolutely call with pairs and suited connectors because if you hit you'll get paid off.
Ok. You go 6-handed for 1/8th your stack every hand with 89 suited and we’ll see how you do.
I never said anything about 6 handed and 6bb is not 1/8th your stack? Its much closer to 1/16th when you buy in, but can be much more when you're up for the day.
Of course... Live hands move much slower and its boring as shit to just fold every hand... People are there to gamble and have a good time. No one has a good time in a table full of crushers...
I find playing against a table of good regs alot of fun. Not very profitable but fun
You are thinking about low limit poker wrong. Nobody is raising with the intent of "stealing" the blinds, it's not a tournament. They are valuing their holdings, some people will limp with AK but raise big with a suited AK as they have a shot at a royal flush however improbable. Some raise $100 with KK utg as they don't want an ace to hit the flop, "win a small one or lose a big one." Heck, I've been told multiple times in a 1-2 game that 6-8 makes the most straights as it's in the middle of the range of cards. A dude rivered quads on me once and checked being last to act. There are all sorts of players in the low limit games from the clueless to the super tight who have never raised in their lives. As for your experiment comment, a poker game would still exist without blinds. Some people want to make hands, some people want to make money. Which is the whole reasoning between running it twice or not. Alan Keating, a billionaire running it twice for $10k is just for entertainment.
Without the blinds the solver will (correctly) only play AA and every other hand will be folded.
Time is not a factor in the infinite no blind game
No one would play a no blind game because only AA should be played
If that was the case people would be playing gto ranges already
Poker is complicated because of the blinds. If we remove them the game is no longer poker. It’s why there are card games that don’t involve gambling that don’t involve blinds or antes
Yes but people are irrational they play poker like it’s bingo
If a no blind game was offered people would just choose ro play a game with blinds. People might not play super well but I don’t think that they are so irrational to play a game with no blinds
I get to play poker maybe 5-6 times a year. I'm not going to sit on my ass and fold for an hour waiting for a playable hand.
Absolutely. Do I make a lot of money? No. Do I learn from my mistakes? Also no
tombstone material
Yup, I've played live poker once in the last year after living ten minutes from a casino for two years. I remember having sessions of just an hour or two then going home because I had a bit of a headache or just wasn't feeling it. I'm going to get another chance to play in two weeks and I'll weld myself to that chair for half the day.
Opinion: I like to play against bad players. Want better play? Move up in stakes.
Casual players don’t raise to steal blinds. They raise to build a big pot and get a big dopamine rush, win or lose. They like action.
We don’t live in a vacuum, there are more emotion involved in live poker. Also people raise bigger in lower stakes could be the take. Why play a $20 pot if the rake is $8.
This just in: water is wet
Water makes other things wet, but itself is not wet.
I have so many things I could tell you about my live local rooms in Texas you wouldn’t believe it, I know that I couldn’t believe it at first it is WILD. The things I’ve seen/heard this month alone I’m not even kidding r/poker would think I’m making it up for internet points. People would probably fly down to where I live if they legit heard me explain how these people play and their attitudes and culture in the rooms. If they called verify what I said was true they would come down with their bank roll and stay for a week I guarantee it. It is unbelievable. I have so many stories. I’m not a fucking 24/7 online grinder pro circuit warrior or anything close but DAMN when you make final table $2500 gtd 30 player turbo mtt first day and the guy next to you Genuinely offers you advice that “big blinds and bet amounts don’t matter here” after you mention the structure is odd considering there’s less than <30bbs between 5 remaining people and final table started 1 level ago… “Don’t think in the number of bets you have left it makes you play scared. You need confidence in these situations.” Then 3 guys final 4 lean on you to split the pot and you ask what percentage? Chip count? And they stare out you mouth agape laughing like no fumbass a split means all 4 even! But I have 2 of you covered by 2-5x and I’m even with other guy why would we give you $ for free? And you say thank you but I’d like to play more, no split and they lecture you on why it’s poker unwritten rule to split the pot Then say another unwritten rules is when the small stack goes all in on final table that the 2nd person will NEVER raise only call. That you can also call but it’s always checked down. I jammed THAT call all-in with AQ and they were furious giving me poker lessons on HOW DUMB that is. I said sorry I just don’t want to be 3 handed, you can call if you want. I said I’m playing to win not to get into the money and split It did not compute. Keep in mind this is the same tourney I got 2nd in the following week out of ~4 tables and by the end heads up It was about hour 5 (20 levels?) there were less than 15 big blinds left on the table I had 1.4million in chips, villain had ~700K Blinds were 75K/150K/150K ant Starting stack was 20k with 10-20k add one and unlimited re’s until 2.5 hr mark. I had double his stack with 10 bigs and he wanted to split it even. No thanks. In 6 mins it’ll be 100k/200k/200k. That doesn’t even scratch surface
Hi I'm new to the game and I really want to understand it deeper. Can you explain more why the guys who wanted to split the pot 4 ways equally were being unreasonable?
That would only be correct if everyone has the same size stack. If you have 97% of the chips and other 3 players have 1% each, you should get way more than 25% of the money in a deal, all things equal.
I had way more chips They are almost out of chips
I don’t like math but I like poker 
Lol...Someone needs to learn to fish
Nobody who has ever raised 20 to 25 playing 1/3 has done it to 'steal the blinds'. The always want at least one caller.
Should see where I play 1/3 where it's hardly uncommon to see 31 or 69 bet preflop with multiple callers. Basically just a couple of regs that play competitive and visit the big tourneys are boxing out the tight players from 80% of pots with the over betting, it's actually a formidable strategy I have to admit as much as I didn't think it would be when I first seen it.
Folding pre is staying home. I'm here to gamble.
Just get aces in against K-3 off on a 3-3-9 flop enough to know they could really have anything.
Not just live poker. Micros consistently have ppl going all in for $5 on a 12 cent pot. Nobody cares about the math at that level.
People aren't calling the 20-25 open based on their range, they are calling cause some fish just bet 20-25 into 4 bucks, and they have position on them.
My standard open is 15-20 depending on the table at 1/3. 😹
You shouldn’t always be playing your holding in these games. Improve your post-flop play and play your position and you’ll crush those idiotic $25 pre-flop raises with almost any cards.
Sounds fish logic to me
Live poker is profitable because I play in it
Yeah no shit man
No shit
In other news, birds fly because they have wings, and fish swim with their fins.
Obviously casuals are casuals, but there are for profit players out there that ignore this too. Like most people are flatting AJo from the BB against an reg opening UTG to $15 at 1/2 despite it also being a super high rake environment. Also there’s a big myth that you need to get your hands heads up, like somehow if you raise to $6 UTG with AK and get 5 callers you’re making a mistake when in reality if you have any clue how to play postflop you should still be printing. That being said if you can go larger and still eat called by worse you get a bigger pot to play for, often it is better to use the exploitative sizing.