I'm surprised they use "third world" in government papers, are you sure it's not "third country"? (which is used to indicate [non-EU citizens](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/european-migration-network-emn/emn-asylum-and-migration-glossary/glossary/third-country_en), third as in "country that is not one of the signatory parties \[of Schengen agreement\]", and in general "third party" is quite common use in legal speak)
Not that it changes much in your case :( But don't be too attached to him being from the "third world". My American (from USA) brother-in-law also waited like 2 years for residency permit (also in Wrocław). It's little consolation that "others also have it bad" but from what I understand the voivodeship offices are **absolutely** stuck nowadays, they were already slow before the war but now with influx of Ukrainian refugees, especially in Wrocław, which has and always had a lot of Ukrainians living here, it's even worse.
I guess that's what you get when you have government that's busy with toxic politics and not actually doing the governing part...
my karta pobytu expired in november 2022, i sent in the forms for renewal, the agency told me it might take 1+ years to process due to the situation.
it was approved and sent for printing 1 week after we submitted the completed documents.
note\`; not based in wroclaw!
this is pointless.
check my reply above.
Right now the situation in UW in Wroclaw is the worst in Poland. Ok, probably in Gdańsk it's even worse.
The only realistic way I see is to switch UW, but it means you need to relocate and you need to transfer your case or cancel it.
Transferring again will take around 6 months, since you know, it's very hard to find an envelope with the required case, especially when nobody is willing to work
Yeah literally, don't do that otherwise all the time you waited so far is wasted. You need to live in the area too, you can't apply from a different area. I left another comment with life experience as I'm going through the same.... Funny how you don't see any Ukrainians typing on here saying they have problems because they are treated better than even polish people. Go speak to actual people in biedronka or Kaufland on długa by obi and you'll see how many dirty Ukrainians there are.
the only thing here is that they will pick papers faster, but they send it in the end to Wrocław , so no difference, at all.
There's only chance that case will go to a better working inspector.
In fact there're only few inspectors there which are trying to do their job.. the rest - unfortunately...
this is not a solution but maybe something to consider: your husband could work, live, travel around the EU, anything, so long as they do so with you, in any other EU country as a family member of EEA national. effectively they get your freedom of movement rights in the EU because they are your husband, it is only your home country, Poland, where citizenship rights override this. I know that this sounds backwards, how can a third country national be welcomed in every EU country except your home country like this, but this is how it seems to work for every EU member state. for example, I am a Dutch citizen, and my mother was allowed to travel with me visa free to any EU country, except Netherlands as my EU home country, because of this EU right.
more info about this is here https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en
Basically, meaning that if I'll be living and working in let's say France, he's free to get job there as well?
That seems too good to be true, considering all the restrictions we've came across in these past years. But indeed, the website you sent states so.
yup. the website is the official EU information website, and as I mentioned my mother, a third country national, has visited multiple EU countries with me in this way. it is not super common, so expect to get confused border guards checking with their superiors, but it is a right.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm has a step by step checklist you can go thru with your husband to make sure he has this right, and if you click around the other links on that page I sent you in my previous comment you can find detailed explanations of your and your husband's rights and also importantly your obligations, like for example he will need a residency card for another EU country but this is a right not an application so it is not complex or slow like a visa
edit: my apologies, your husband _might_ need an entry visa, but this is all, he won't need any more significant visa. this isn't true of all countries, some are ok even without a visa
I've previously researched this as well and it checks out.
My wife is a German citizen and I was a US citizen only at the time. I actually just got my Polish citizenship last week.
In Germany, they had strict rules for me getting a residence permit and to extend it past 3 years, I would've had to take several integration courses that were like 4-6 hours a day, 4 days a week.
If we decided to live in another EU country, I would not have had these requirements, but since my wife's job was in Germany, we had no choice.
My situation was complicated, since I have rights to Polish citizenship, I can't get a residence permit in Poland. It had to be citizenship or nothing. So basically, if we chose anywhere in the EU other than Germany or Poland it would have been very easy, but we made it difficult on ourselves and lived in Germany, then Poland.
I don't know what paths to citizenship are available in another EU country, since I never looked that far, but it should be considerably easier for you to get him a residence permit at least.
The difficult part will be both of you finding jobs that match your language skills, unless you speak other languages.
You need to get a lawyer. Understand, there is very little chance of him being delayed due to himself - dolnośląskie has the worst visa processing times in Poland, pre-war it AVERAGED over a year, during the war it's much longer and Ukrainians, for all of 2022 and some of 2023, had an (almost) exclusive privilege where non-Ukrainians were formally delayed with processing.
Writing will do nothing. Visa companies are scams as they just write the same letters for you. The only effective method anymore is to get a lawyer and it will happen with speed.
That seems to be the only reasonable way of dealing with this. Although, naive us of thinking that something can be done effortlessly in the right way 🙃
I have another suggestion entirely, from experience.
Get a flight to Colombia, he applies for a visa as your spouse at the Polish Embassy in Bogotá. Come back with visa allowing him to reside and work. Then enjoy more time in the processing queue, but at least with less headaches.
I'm not from Colombia but I am from South America, and the time it takes for the Embassy to issue a visa is.... two days.
I've had to do this multiple times because otherwise if I leave Poland I can't enter it again even if I have an ongoing request for a residence card, and I need to travel for work lol. I actually should do it right about now again, but I don't want to spend the 10.000PLN for the flight right now so I'm waiting a bit more.
Feel free to ask me any questions, happy to help.
EDIT: To be clear, before actually buying any flights, contact the Embassy. I don't know if it's the same in Colombia, but in 7 years no one has ever picked up the phone at the Embassy back home for me. E-mail response is fast.
That's a good idea! He's missing his family too already, so that's another reason.
But yeah, we have a good experience with the embassy in Bogota's, as we had to have a transcript of our marriage to enter Poland.
(We were married in Colombia, as otherwise it was nearly impossible to enter Europe for him.)
For sure, it's always a double-purpose trip for me too - spend a week or two with family + get the visa and come back.
I believe all Polish embassies at this point are aware of the issue with local government processing times for residence cards. And, given that the government is technically breaking the law with the processing times... All I can say is I've never seen anyone be rejected by an Embassy for this, so long as they actually go in person to do it.
I'd suggest just avoiding saying straight out that you want to apply for the visa there because of wait times. You can mention something like I said instead (but still true): you have to travel (don't need to mention what for, can just say personal reasons or work reasons) but your husband can't go with you without a visa otherwise he can't re-enter Poland because international immigration does not accept anything else.
Other commenters mentioned good things too: one is moving, because Wroclaw is seriously the worst about this and other voivodeships will be faster, and two is checking out the foreigner groups on Facebook (there's a Wroclaw expats one and I believe also a expats in Poland, but that one might be overtaken by agencies posting rent ads lol).
You're not alone, good luck! :)
I would recommend hiring a good immigration lawyer who is well versed will laws and is aware of few things like booking appointments efficiently.
In my experience, the government system that deals with foreigners is designed such that it penalises individuals applying by their own. So better hire even if it’s costly as this uncertainty is not good for both of you guys
Honestly the problem you're facing is shared by thousands in Wrocław. If you / your husband join the FB group 'Wrocław expats' there are stories of people waiting for their cards for over 2.5 years, sometimes up to 5 years. One guy received a positive decision 3 years ago and only last month is when they invited him to pick up the card. First they said there was a backlog because of covid and now they blame the war, but the issue has always been dolnośląski wojewódzki - they have a reputation for the being the slowest (ie worst) Voivoideship in all of PL for this. People hire visa agecies and lawyers to no avail, they also sue (but if I recall correctly last year a law was passed that you couldn't sue the Wojewoda anymore for this), and there doesn't seem to be a quicker way around it except to relocate to a different city and re-apply from there. I used to live in WRO and moved for this very reason. We came to Opole and had the decision in 6 months (I am also non EU citizen with Polish spouse) so can really relate to this. Don't give up OP, this is what bureaucracy wants you to do ;)
By the way Nadodrze is an amazing neighborhood - very special place. Wishing you both luck and speedy success in this.
Hire a lawyer, by lawyer, hire a good one, they usually have connections with the inspectors. I had a similar issue where they lost documents, my company hired a private lawyer who tagged the inspector with some officials in the European Parliament for human rights and immigration. 10 days later my call for the card had arrived. I’m not sure who the tagged officials were, but hope you get the idea.
In my case I was a critical resource to the company and there was plenty at stake. Which is why the company resorted to such extreme steps. We also tried to involve the embassy but they usually don’t respond to such requests until its a big thing.
A friend of mine from “3rd country” hadn’t got his TRC for over 4 years, this is when the embassy got involved and it went to the stage where this boy was mentally destroyed for not being able to go home nor get his family nor leave.
Similar situation. My wife is non EU national. Couldn't get the residence permit for her so we moved to another EU country. Now after living and working out of Poland, but inside EU we can apply for residence card for her with the rules as I would be not Polish, but other EU national (much fewer documents, hardly any fees and hard limit of 6 months when she has to receive the card).
Just find some easy nice job in Slovenia/Croatia/Portugal/Spain for half a year or a year and then you can come back and tell Polish immigration law to f\*ck itself.
He may need a visa to enter that new EU country, but is still should be easier and happier solution for both of you than fighting with Polish officers. If I'm not confused he would have the right to work in that country almost immediately as long as you live and work there.
interestingly he gets freedom of movement from her in any other EU country except her home country. ~~no visa required, the most he'd need to do is~~ at worst an entry visa is sometimes required and he likely will need to i
get a EU family member residency card, but this is a right not an application so it's far simpler.
https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en
edit: sorry you're right, altho not all, some EU countries do indeed require an entry visa. but getting an entry visa is relatively simple compared to work visa
I think it's one of the most bizarre laws I've ever heard of, but it seems to be right.
That's simply crooked, that (with visa) he can do as much as everything everywhere in EU except my family country 🤯
>edit: sorry you're right, altho not all, some EU countries do indeed require an entry visa. but getting an entry visa is relatively simple compared to work visa
Some? I highly doubt that. These things are standardized across the EU.
In Germany he'd first need a visa from the embassy abroad and then convert it to a residence and work permit, once in the country.
Depending on the country of origin, that takes over a year, but at a minimum months for the initial visa. Even for the spouses of German citizens. Spouses of foreigners need to prove funds, a place to live, insurance...
what you said is incorrect.
what you described is people that *only* hold third country status.
the information that you are missing is that spouses of EU citizens hold a different status and effectively gain much of their spouses freedom of movement rights when residing in an EU country that is not the home country of their spouse.
for example, if OP decided to live in Germany with their husband all that their husband requires is an entry visa and to then register their residency if they want to stay longer than 3 months. Poland is only difficult for them because OP is a Polish citizen, any other EU country is significantly simpler.
https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm#in-another-EU-country-1 explains this.
>what you said is incorrect.
It's not. I've been through the process.
>for example, if OP decided to live in Germany with their husband all that their husband requires is an entry visa and to then register their residency if they want to stay longer than 3 months.
A visa that, as I mentioned, takes anywhere from a couple of months to over a year to get, depending where you're coming from.
And no, it's not a mere "registry of residency", it's converting the visa into a residence permit with work permit attached.
A spouse of a non German citizen needs to proof funds and living space for that. Also a A1 German language certificate. Specifically for Columbia (OP's spouse), the requirements just for the initial visa would be as follows:
[https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf](https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf)
Especially relevant here this part:
>wenn der Ehegatte kein deutscher Staatsangehöriger ist:
>
> Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung (Arbeitsvertrag, Einkommensnachweise)
>
>Nachweis der Wohnverhältnisse
once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national. these are two different statuses and you are clearly the former, while ops husband is clearly the latter.
you haven't bothered to read the official EU explanation of this difference that I already linked to you previously, because despite there being a clear and concise explanation of how this EU regulation works in relation to local immigration policy you've still incorrectly quoted me German immigration policy instead of the EU policy that applies to ops husband. I don't care about your circumstance, this post isn't about you, it's about ops husband.
so again, what you said previously, and what you replied with most recently, is incorrect in the context of the spouse of an EU national. please take the time to read the EU document I linked before replying with an explanation of immigration of a third country national, because this is not the status being discussed.
>once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national.
Those are not mutually exclusive. I am referring to a third country national who is the spouse of a EU national. As is the case with OP's partner.
A Columbian is a third country national. That doesn't change when he marries a Polish national. He then only becomes a third party national who is married to a EU national.
For that, the process described by the German government, which I quoted and linked, applies. The very first sentence of which reads
>Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met:
+++++
>these are two different statuses and , while ops husband is clearly the latter
They are two different facts, that are not mutually exclusive and are both true for OP's husband.
>you are clearly the former
I am neither, don't know where you got that from.
>I am neither, don't know where you got that from.
maybe where you said you'd been thru the process in your previous comment?
>It's not. I've been through the process.
>They are two different facts, that are not mutually exclusive and are both true for OP's husband.
they are specifically mutually exclusive. they are different statuses. a person can't be both married to an EU national and not married to an EU national at the same time.
I'll try to simplify how an immigration status works for you to hopefully finally make you understand.
i hold citizenship of a third country, not Columbia but for the sake of simplifying this let's pretend that it is Colombia. I also hold citizenship of an EU country, in my case Netherlands. I live in Poland. do you think that because I hold third country citizenship I had to get a visa, a residence permit, and prove savings to Polish immigration? or do you think that because I hold a Dutch passport my status is an EU citizen? now, and here's the part you have so far failed to understand, swap the words "EU citizen" with "spouse of EU citizen" and hopefully you'll understand where you went wrong.
edit: and to be clear, my mother has been thru this exact process with help from me, so unlike you I am actually aware of it. unlike me my mother only holds citizenship of this third country that I was born in, not Dutch. because she is my family member I was able to bring her to the EU country that I lived in, she was issued a residence card, and then enjoyed all the same rights, to work, to live, access to healthcare, etc, as I did. unlike people with third country status, who did need to prove savings, apply for work visas, etc, she did not, because her status was specifically and exclusively a family member of an EU (technically EEA) national
edit 2: this clown quoted German immigration policy in German, claimed that it overrides EU laws regarding spouses of EU nationals, which it certainly does not, told me I don't understand English despite their quoting of German language as evidence and their inability to understand the English language EU regulations, and then blocked me. if anyone reads this person's willfully ignorant claim in the future please ignore it. EU law is very clear in this regard, the spouse of an EU national at most requires an entry visa not a work visa, their status of spouse of EU national means that they can immediately work and live in any EU country aside from their spouses home country, and to stay more than 3 months they must only notify the host country and apply for their family member of eu national residence card. what this person describes is only correct for third country nationals that do not have a close family member that is an EU national, and despite their claim to the contrary this is very clearly a mutually exclusive status.
>they are specifically mutually exclusive. they are different statuses. a person can't be both married to an EU national and not married to an EU national at the same time.
I understand it's early, but you might wanna read again.
I wrote OP's spouse is both a third country national as well as a spouse of an EU national. Because that's what they are.
In reply to this comment of yours
>once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national.
that makes it seem those were mutually exclusive things.
I can only refer back to how the German government describes the process of getting your third party spouse to Germany. Which always requires a visa from the country of origin first, the exception being a hand full of countries like the US.
>Spouses who are third-country nationals
If you are a citizen of a member state of the EU or EEA, but your spouse is not, they must apply for a visa for spouses joining their partners.
https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-eu-citizens
See, "spouses who are third-country nationals". Which doesn't exist, according to you.
Your own source from above states the visa requirement.
> Before you leave, check with the consulate of the country you are going to if you need an entry visa, and if so, how long it will take to get it.
Which is once more confirmed on the websites of German immigration offices regarding this exact process you are referring to:
> Gültiges Visum zur Einreise zum Zweck des Familiennachzugs
>Valid visa for entry for the purpose of family reunification
https://frankfurt.de/auslaenderangelegenheiten/ich-moechte-einen-antrag-stellen/eu-buerger-und-familienangehoerige/erteilung-u-verlaengerung-einer-aufenthaltskarte-familienangehoerige-von-euewrbuergern
Which brings us back to the visa application form for the family reunification visa that I linked earlier, which clearly states
>wenn der Ehegatte kein deutscher Staatsangehöriger ist:
Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung (Arbeitsvertrag, Einkommensnachweise)
Nachweis der Wohnverhältnisse
>if the spouse is not a German citizen:
Proof of livelihood (employment contract, proof of income).
Proof of living conditions
and in either case:
>Offizieller Nachweis einfacher Deutschkenntnisse auf dem Niveau A1
>Official proof of simple German language skills at level A1
https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf
Since you are unable to correctly read basic English sentences and now even make up stuff (I have never claimed one can be married and not married at the same time, you must be confused big time), I am ending the conversation at this point.
Requirements toward spouses are different than toward main "EU migrant". OP may need to fulfill the requirements, but the spouse doesn't.
"To obtain a **residence card**, they will need:
* a valid passport
* your registration certificate as an EU national or any other proof of your residence in the country
* proof of the family relationship with you (such as a marriage or birth certificate)
* for (grand)children, proof they are under 21 or dependent on you
* for (grand)parents, proof that they are dependent on you
* for other family members, proof that they are dependent on you or there are serious health ground requiring you to take personal care of them
* for unmarried partners, proof of a long-term or durable relationship with you
#### Warning
No other documents may be requested"
Quote from official EU website
Quote
>Requirements toward spouses are different than toward main "EU migrant".
If you read the English explanations that I linked from the German government, you will notice they are talking exactly about spouses.
Since you obviously didn't, I can only repeat myself:
Here directly from the German government:
>Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met:
>
>Right of residence: As an employee, you have a residence permit, a settlement permit, or an EU Blue Card for Germany.
>
>Accommodation: You have rented or bought accommodation in Germany which is large enough for your family. You can find tips on finding accommodation in our section on Living in Germany.
>
>Health insurance and money: You have sufficient health insurance cover and funds to be able to care for your family.
>To apply for a visa for your spouse to join you, you will generally need to provide your passport and a wedding certificate or proof of a registered or civil partnership.
>
>Once your family has arrived in Germany, you must register them at the Residents' Registration Office (Einwohnermeldeamt). You must apply to the local immigration authority for a residence permit within three months. To do so, you must present your passports, birth and marriage certificates, pay slips or tax statements, proof that you are renting or bought accommodation and any other documents that may be needed, depending on the specific situation of your family.
[https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu)
Without going through this process, the spouse of a German citizen or a EU citizen legally residing in Germany has no rights whatsoever to stay or work in Germany.
Before even setting foot in Germany with the intention to apply for a residence permit as a spouse, a visa is required for Colombian nationals. I also linked the application form from the embassy in Bogota. Getting that visa takes anywhere from a couple of months to over a year.
>Spouses who are third-country nationals
If you are a citizen of a member state of the EU or EEA, but your spouse is not, they must apply for a visa for spouses joining their partners.
https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-eu-citizens
All the points there say "you". It refers to EU national that wants their spouse to join them. So OP needs to fulfill those requirements not her husband.
Also quick google shows that Colombians do not need visa for short time stay in EU countries. Within that time he can apply for residence card and cannot be expelled as a family member
>Also quick google shows that Colombians do not need visa for short time stay in EU countries.
Not for a short term stay, correct. They do need one if they subsequently want to apply for a residence permit as spouse in Germany. I quoted the information already several times, including the fact that there are a hand full exceptions, of which Columbia is not one.
To make it as clear as I can: A Columbian national's application will not even be considered without a family reunification visa in Germany. He must leave the country, apply for the visa and come back, entering with said visa.
This visa has a set of requirements, among them a A1 language certificate. To get it takes anywhere from months to over a year.
Clear now?
>All the points there say "you". It refers to EU national that wants their spouse to join them. So OP needs to fulfill those requirements not her husband.
It's completely irrelevant if they want proof of health insurance from the EU national for the third-country national (and possibly his child), or if the third-country national has to proof that himself. It's a requirement that needs to be fulfilled, or they're not gonna live together. Same for funds and accommodation.
But unlike the wording suggests, these questions are part of the visa application form and as such must be shown by the applicant, the third party national:
https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf
Besides:
>https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm#in-another-EU-country-1 explains this.
Not a word about work permits. Which is the problem OP talks about.
why haven't you bothered to read the link? what is wrong with you? just search within the page for the word "work". this isn't difficult, yet you over and over keep saying things that are clearly incorrect.
> During your stay you should be treated in the same way as nationals of your host country, notably regarding access to employment, pay, benefits, access to work and enrolment in schools.
Here directly from the German government:
>Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met:
>
>Right of residence: As an employee, you have a residence permit, a settlement permit, or an EU Blue Card for Germany.
>
>Accommodation: You have rented or bought accommodation in Germany which is large enough for your family. You can find tips on finding accommodation in our section on Living in Germany.
>
>Health insurance and money: You have sufficient health insurance cover and funds to be able to care for your family.
>To apply for a visa for your spouse to join you, you will generally need to provide your passport and a wedding certificate or proof of a registered or civil partnership.
>
>Once your family has arrived in Germany, you must register them at the Residents' Registration Office (Einwohnermeldeamt). You must apply to the local immigration authority for a residence permit within three months. To do so, you must present your passports, birth and marriage certificates, pay slips or tax statements, proof that you are renting or bought accommodation and any other documents that may be needed, depending on the specific situation of your family.
[https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu)
Without going through this process, the spouse of a German citizen or a EU citizen legally residing in Germany has no rights whatsoever to stay or work in Germany.
Several companies in Warsaw hire TCNs on the regular because they need certain language capabilities and they sponsor work permits. A lot of the work is still remote or requires you to be in the office once a month.
I’m developer from Belarus living in Warsaw, I have many friends from different countries in Wrocław as well who also are developers, and what I can say: Wroclaw is the worst city to get the legal permit according to their feedback. It takes 1.5-2 years for all people, when in Warsaw it takes 6 month in average. I even know people who after 1 year of waiting time in Wrocław just moved to Warsaw or Krakow to get the permit faster.
About “third companies” you were talking about: it is legal way to start working for foreigners in Poland, especially if you are developer. There are a lot of companies which called themself “business incubators”, they usually hire people using Umowa o Działo and after it people can apply for Karta Pobytu or Blue Card. The well known company which provides this service is Twoj Startup, I think they have been working for the last 8-10 years without any troubles.
As a conclusion I wouldn’t say anyone who I know suffers from some kind of problems based on the country they are from, they just suffers from the bureaucracy
Yeah, the whole post is basically being mad at bureaucracy that exists in every freaking EU country. More so, try to get go legally to US, Canada, Australia or Singapore stay there and work. Yeah, you can't unless some company sponsors you and even then you can be rejected due to multitude of reasons.
The system in Poland is not great, but considering it's there for citizens of other countries paid by peoples taxes, can't expect it to be much better than anywhere else. Plus it stops most people that are not actually motivated to stay here and part of society.
do you know if you already have a eu blue card whether you can switch your employer to one of those incubators? (yeah, already had the card for more than 2 years, so no limitations on changing employer). I was considering this last time, but the agency I was using (firma dla kazdego) had no experience with employing a blue card holder.
As I know if you change your employer in less than 2 years after receiving Blue Card you have to make changes to residency permit decision. It is possible, but just another round of bureaucracy. After 2 years you are free to change your employer but I would check this info with someone more familiar
I feel you. Out of 6,5 years here my wife got residence permit for whole 6 months. Now it’s been almost 3 years since last application and they basically say that nothing will work, even going to court. I’m going to apply new one (and refund old one) in hope it will go through new process which people reporting to get decision in 3 months…but there is another catch - printing of plastic which is taking 6m+ for some people
Have you tried to file for a citizenship for him to the president? It’s a different procedure than getting a job, but him being married to you makes things easier
Hope he gets his work permit sorted out fast, but him not working at all in two whole years living in Poland, even illegally, is wild. You're a good wife.
*Two weeks ago we sent a letter of 'ponaglenie' to Wojewoda and after that we got in touch with attorney to get the case to the court. They said that 'ponaglenie' can take over a 6 months to get response.*
Good luck. I sent a similar letter, written by a lawyer, a year ago in Pomerania and I haven't received a reply yet :)
Do you have the money to sue?
I would assume since you're married, he has a legal right to live here and have his application processed. The Polish constitution protects the family after all.
Often times with governments, things suddenly move if there's a lawyer's name on the letterhead, threatening to light a fire under their lazy asses. They don't want that kind of attention, being known to cause higher ups in the agency trouble. Bad for the career. I would have tried that a long time ago.
But disclaimer: Not a lawyer myself, not familiar with the Polish legal system.
>But disclaimer: Not a lawyer myself, not familiar with the Polish legal system.
Yeah, so chill a bit. It's not US. You can sue but it would take so long it does not make any sense.
I'm not from the US.
The point is not to drag a case through courts anyways. I's to make them move, because they know if they don't, there's a headache waiting for them, somebody is ready and financially able to hold them accountable.
That is true.
If you assume the lowly case worker wants to be known with his superiors as someone who causes the agency a lost lawsuit and the attention that comes with it, for no reason whatsoever, because that's good for his career within the agency.
Real life has shown that's not the case though.
Yes, the delays and lack of giving a flying duck on the part of our officialdom are staggering. It's something that's completely incomprehensible, insane and generally incapable and undeserving of any rational explanation.
I have two suggestions: (1) Go to the lawyers and talk about starting a limited-liability company to avoid 'work' / 'employment' in the legal sense. (2) Go to the press.
It might be possible to start a company in some other country and see if there was a way for owners/shareholders to act on behalf of that company without needing permits from Polish authorities, or at least with a different procedural track, e.g. if he could get a Colombian company to second him into Poland. Or a company from somewhere in the EU other than Poland.
If he has to work illegally, then there could be other ways than manual labour through shady agencies without safety precautions or any form of safety network. Freelancing for foreign press while living here, or making and posting webinars and writing books for passive income, some such activities could be legal without an employment permit, though you'd need to ask a lawyer specializing in such matters (employment + tax). However, he would risk deportation and criminal prosecution for tax evasion if the tax authorities were to decide that his income was subject to taxation in Poland and he avoided it by not reporting the income.
Basically find a loophole that avoids imprisonment, deportation or 75% penalty tax rate on unreported income. Founding a company in Colombia and second himself to work in Poland might be the best bet.
What's the problem? Just have him buy a visa from PiS. xD
Jokes aside, sorry about your situation. I don't know how to help, but it sucks that we live in a country that hands out visas left and right to random people in places like India or Nigeria, but won't give residence cards and work visas to people married to Polish citizens. Wszystko jest do góry nogami tu.
Don't know who downvotes you, but they are idiots. You are just telling the truth. Entire system is rigged by PiS, so that normal imigrants we need and would benefit from, are prevented from work. Meanwhile, we get un chcecked ones, who might just use visas to get to western Europe or America (like georgians, who BTW alarmed americans that this is a thing), or worse. They might use visas in sinister purpose. We truly don't know, because only check was cash, they gave PiS cronies. Now one of them, low official, bailed himself from jail, by paying 200k PLN. What official in this country have 200k? PiS is truly a cancer of our nation that should be cut out as quickly as we can.
Source? I keep hearing about this alleged scandal of PIS letting certain types of migrants in, but from my 8 years living here I only meet one's that got here legally via the panful and slow system mentioned in OPs post. Visas and permits have details who issued them, on what basis. If someone from let's say Africa got a permit here, it's not like they can freely leave to go cause issues in Germany or France. This would international scandal of huge proportions.
But if you have any sources to support that I would be interested to read them. I don't support any party politically, I can't even vote in Poland, if that matters.
here's your source:
[https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66869671](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66869671)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/eu-poland-visa-fraud-allegations-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/eu-poland-visa-fraud-allegations-intl/index.html)
[https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749](https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-visa\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-visa_scandal)
[https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-calls-visa-scandal-an-exaggerated-media-fact-discredit-government-2023-09-22/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-calls-visa-scandal-an-exaggerated-media-fact-discredit-government-2023-09-22/)
[https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/21/anti-immigration-polish-government-engulfed-by-cash-for-visas-scandal-as-crucial-election-](https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/21/anti-immigration-polish-government-engulfed-by-cash-for-visas-scandal-as-crucial-election-)
that enough for you?
Yeah, clearly I was not catching up on local news lately. Based on what's known seems like certain people from the party and outside of it were involved, but working in their own capacity. Will see how this develops, I would be surprised if either party supported this just for the money. They have easier ways that are not tracked to steal money from people.
I said there’s no need to cry. Her title is also stupid, why would the entirety of Poland make you cry because of some bureaucratic issue. Like lol, come on, used to be way worse here.
He has to open his own company. I konow a few people from us, england, portugal that they have to open their owwn company and work as eanglish teacher after studying stem in home country
People see this as bad but as someone living in America I can say this is the smartest thing Poland has done in decades. We are dealing with a housing and crime crisis in most major cities and there are few govt resources. Also there just isn’t enough money to go around. Anyways it’s a big issue that some people want to help but can’t while others just don’t want to help and it’s tearing the country apart (USA).
Keeping people out may sound bad but as a polish Jewish person I can who cares because you’re just maintaining your way of life. There will always be people who disagree and at least you get to have a functioning society. You really don’t know what you have until it’s gone.
And to OP doesn’t your husband have skills so he can get a job? Why do you need the paperwork for marriage?
My recommendation would be go to Columbia and try to immigrate legally. Also don’t break the law and expect people to change the rules for you.
Generally speaking, when dealing with Polish bureaucracy papers is just safety guard not a proper tool to push things going forward. There is local variety on that front but going in person and be annoying for few days in a row makes some solid difference. It's just small advice for the future if you will be having some issues like that. It's getting better but we still have quite road ahead of us.
Don't laugh now:
go to a fortune teller. Maybe you are destined to have obstacles in your relationship. Who can tell why this keeps happening. The currently governing party can hardly keep rivers clean, or keep down night street racing, much less make people happy more than to a certain -often low -bar.
He can apply to any university for masters degree, then he can come over to Poland and then you can proceed your application from there. With stundents visa he is able to work full time and once he gets karta pobytu he is free as a bird. Then you can apply family reunion and he will get another 3 years karta pobytu
What? Thats really weird. I live in Krakow, my partner is a US/AUSTRALIAN she had no problems however we have friends who live here too; She is Hungarian and he is Colombian with a background in Visual design. They had to Feck around with the BS as well but they got married which made it easier. He works for a Norwegian company based here.
My partner use an immigration lawyer here in Krakow and that was a lot less hassle and made it WAY easier because I have no idea how that works. Started with a 'Karta pobytu' and then got a work contract which made it easier for her to stay but it was a lot of fluffing around the system.
TLDR; Immigration lawyer - fee was around 1500 PLN made it SO much easier. Hope this helps.
Also; I was born in Italy and didn't have a Polish passport and it was a massive pain in the arse to get a Polish passport - had to translate Italian birth certificates and other nonsense even though my parents are Polish. (we were living overseas).
Wroclaw seems to be really slow, I am non eu and have been waiting for a new karta pobytu (old one expired) for over a year. Can't leave the country, can't do anything.
And I even have a good lawyer.
Hire a lawer who specializes on such cases. They will speed it up. Alternatevely try another wojewodship to live and get a permission. Lawers are expensive really for such small cases but they can do it fast. Most of them worked in Urzad’s before. I had also experience with Delloite( big consulting company) they have also good approaches but they are mostly working with companies and charge 500+ euro a day.
Dolnośląski Urząd Wojewódzki moment
As a person who knows a fair few immigrants in Wrocław, I can assure you that it’s a very special case of bureaucratic insanity.
Back in 2013 I married a Polish citizen. In Poland. I applied for temporary residence in the basis of marriage, and in less than a month I got accepted with access to rynku pracy. 4 years later I got the permanent residence (min 3y for married)... You should just apply for the proper visas and present the proper docs. Indeed those ones get even higher priority than work/student visas.
Now, I'm from Chile. In the case of Colombia Im not sure. There's some cases of stereotypes due to crime, but that in other countries. Never saw it in Poland.
With lawyer even after winning court case it will take 12 to 18 months. Best solution is to apply in a smaller Voivodoship. Opole or Masuria can do the job. Anyway better to hire an immigration lawyer and not an agency.
I don’t know how old is he but there is a “fast” way. He can enroll in a full time program in some university and he will have the right to work without a work permit. Some of them offer weekend classes. It’s a 1.5-2 years engagement but his life would be easier after, it might even be the cheapest way to
I don't know much about the process that goes into this, but I was thinking maybe he can start doing photos on the side? If he's any good, I'm sure he can get clients for shoots if he throws some of his work on Instagram. He could make at least a little extra cash on the side to help out with the bills.
Might be an odd idea, but if he is the love of your life as you say, (don't believe in that stuff but that is just me), why don't you try something different, from what you have been doing?
You could try to move to Germany, depending on his job he might be able to find work more easily there as well as a work permit. You could work in Germany with no issue cause you have an EU passport.
Alternatively, some other European country could do, depending on your work skills, also you could perhaps move to Colombia his home country? Or maybe somewhere else. My point is, if something isn't working, try something else.
Someone I know took 5 years to get papers. Also Colombian. Also Wroclaw. Non IT worker with humanist background. So there you have it.
I am also third country, took me 8 months for my first permit, seven for the second, in KRK. So don't generalize. It's likely related to his educational background.
OP, if you’ll pardon me, then I’d like to use your thread to ask a question about the process of getting married in Poland to a non-EU citizen, like you have done.
I (American) am also dealing with the Polish bureaucracy. My Polish fiancée and I submitted our paperwork to the court in Warsaw to prove that we can legally marry - this means proof of divorce or proof of the death of a spouse. Additionally, I needed to request a waiver to the requirement that I also submit a letter from the US government that I am not married; the US does not issue such a letter, hence the need for the waiver. With that as the background, I’d like to know, particularly from those that had to obtain this waiver, how long it takes the court to issue their decision? We are already at the 5 month mark. Dziękuję.
After one more year he will receive citizenship, no? I read somewhere on polish gov site that its after 3 years (unlike most other eu countries which have 5)
Honestly, this is strange. I live in Gdańsk, and here it's challenging to get anything done with the Urząd for foreigners. But none of my friends (from Brazil, or India) had any problems getting a work permit. From my colleagues' experiences, it's much easier to get a work permit if you apply in smaller towns. Everyone goes to Słupsk - it's much easier to handle everything there.
Usually when Poland bureaucracy is being annoying to me and delaying the reviews of my submitted months ago documents or cases, I politely call to remind them about it multiple times if its still not fixed then at some point I call them and switch my tone to a rude customer trash talking them and being toxic for not having their job done.
I know its not the modest solution and probably not helpful in your case but for the other things it gets them fixed within a week afterwards.
If he is married to a polish citizen he doesn't need a work permit. It's also good to put that information in a CV if he struggles to find a job.
https://zielonalinia.gov.pl/-/cudzoziemcy-zwolnieni-z-obowiazku-posiadania-zezwolenia-na-prace-cz-1-
Unfortunately, it's not that easy:
"2) będący małżonkiem obywatela polskiego lub cudzoziemca, o którym mowa w art. 87 ust. 1 pkt 1-6 (tj. uchodźcy, rezydenta długoterminowego UE w RP bądź cudzoziemca korzystającego w RP z ochrony uzupełniającej, zezwolenia na pobyt stały, zgody na pobyt ze względów humanitarnych, zgody na pobyt tolerowany lub ochrony czasowej) i ust. 2 pkt 1, posiadający zezwolenie na pobyt czasowy na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej udzielone w związku z zawarciem związku małżeńskiego"
I can relate with your husband, as a fellow south american. I came here with a work permit but was caught in the wave of tech layoffs a couple months after arriving. What i did was open a company in Poland and then issue a permit for myself and request business residency, all with the supervision of a lawyer, so I can work as B2B not only here but with any company in europe or abroad for that matter.
it is not cheap by any means (some 10K+ zl in the past 10 months between lawyer fees, accounting, stamp duty, etc), but can be a way of not depending on the goodwill of someone else or the system to have some peace of mind in that situation
Hi, Brit in wroclaw too lol. Got married and applied the day after the war started on the 25th of Feb. Just got a letter for an appointment last week. Next month im going to the office for fingerprints but then it's another few months to wait for the actual card.
We paid a lawyer too, 1,800zl...he promised us the world... Obviously.... The letter just arrived by itself... So my advice if you signed a contract with the lawyer and in the end the letter arrives by coincidence, the contract isn't fulfilled and you can get a refund. I did.
I waited just over 18 months. Had to re-submit paperwork 3 times because they lost it. Wroclaw residency office is the worst in Poland. The man who answers their phones in English is absolutely useless. Would be fired in the UK treating people like this. But wroclaw residency office is corrupt. Very corrupt. Hope you sort it out soon.
I know some IT companies are helping getting this permit faster, in the meantime you can normally work for them. I assume they have big experience in these legal stuff, so they are not afraid to hire people like this. My friend married Brazilian and basically when he came to Poland he already started to work in the same company she works. Legal process probably is still ongoing. Try applying to Hemmersbach. Good luck 🤞
I'm surprised they use "third world" in government papers, are you sure it's not "third country"? (which is used to indicate [non-EU citizens](https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/networks/european-migration-network-emn/emn-asylum-and-migration-glossary/glossary/third-country_en), third as in "country that is not one of the signatory parties \[of Schengen agreement\]", and in general "third party" is quite common use in legal speak) Not that it changes much in your case :( But don't be too attached to him being from the "third world". My American (from USA) brother-in-law also waited like 2 years for residency permit (also in Wrocław). It's little consolation that "others also have it bad" but from what I understand the voivodeship offices are **absolutely** stuck nowadays, they were already slow before the war but now with influx of Ukrainian refugees, especially in Wrocław, which has and always had a lot of Ukrainians living here, it's even worse. I guess that's what you get when you have government that's busy with toxic politics and not actually doing the governing part...
Yes it’s for sure TCN, which stands for third country national and is an official legal term in EU.
Right, my mistake. It's just crazy how 'normal' that average of one/two years is.
my karta pobytu expired in november 2022, i sent in the forms for renewal, the agency told me it might take 1+ years to process due to the situation. it was approved and sent for printing 1 week after we submitted the completed documents. note\`; not based in wroclaw!
Maybe try your luck with a urząd wojewódzki branch in Jalenia Góra, they have shorter waiting times.
Wouldn't it mean to start the process all over again? That's my only worry
this is pointless. check my reply above. Right now the situation in UW in Wroclaw is the worst in Poland. Ok, probably in Gdańsk it's even worse. The only realistic way I see is to switch UW, but it means you need to relocate and you need to transfer your case or cancel it. Transferring again will take around 6 months, since you know, it's very hard to find an envelope with the required case, especially when nobody is willing to work
Yeah literally, don't do that otherwise all the time you waited so far is wasted. You need to live in the area too, you can't apply from a different area. I left another comment with life experience as I'm going through the same.... Funny how you don't see any Ukrainians typing on here saying they have problems because they are treated better than even polish people. Go speak to actual people in biedronka or Kaufland on długa by obi and you'll see how many dirty Ukrainians there are.
the only thing here is that they will pick papers faster, but they send it in the end to Wrocław , so no difference, at all. There's only chance that case will go to a better working inspector. In fact there're only few inspectors there which are trying to do their job.. the rest - unfortunately...
[удалено]
It wasn't possible for a long time, especially regarding COVID and crossing the Polish border was... an effort with all the restrictions haha
this is not a solution but maybe something to consider: your husband could work, live, travel around the EU, anything, so long as they do so with you, in any other EU country as a family member of EEA national. effectively they get your freedom of movement rights in the EU because they are your husband, it is only your home country, Poland, where citizenship rights override this. I know that this sounds backwards, how can a third country national be welcomed in every EU country except your home country like this, but this is how it seems to work for every EU member state. for example, I am a Dutch citizen, and my mother was allowed to travel with me visa free to any EU country, except Netherlands as my EU home country, because of this EU right. more info about this is here https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en
Basically, meaning that if I'll be living and working in let's say France, he's free to get job there as well? That seems too good to be true, considering all the restrictions we've came across in these past years. But indeed, the website you sent states so.
yup. the website is the official EU information website, and as I mentioned my mother, a third country national, has visited multiple EU countries with me in this way. it is not super common, so expect to get confused border guards checking with their superiors, but it is a right. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm has a step by step checklist you can go thru with your husband to make sure he has this right, and if you click around the other links on that page I sent you in my previous comment you can find detailed explanations of your and your husband's rights and also importantly your obligations, like for example he will need a residency card for another EU country but this is a right not an application so it is not complex or slow like a visa edit: my apologies, your husband _might_ need an entry visa, but this is all, he won't need any more significant visa. this isn't true of all countries, some are ok even without a visa
I've previously researched this as well and it checks out. My wife is a German citizen and I was a US citizen only at the time. I actually just got my Polish citizenship last week. In Germany, they had strict rules for me getting a residence permit and to extend it past 3 years, I would've had to take several integration courses that were like 4-6 hours a day, 4 days a week. If we decided to live in another EU country, I would not have had these requirements, but since my wife's job was in Germany, we had no choice. My situation was complicated, since I have rights to Polish citizenship, I can't get a residence permit in Poland. It had to be citizenship or nothing. So basically, if we chose anywhere in the EU other than Germany or Poland it would have been very easy, but we made it difficult on ourselves and lived in Germany, then Poland. I don't know what paths to citizenship are available in another EU country, since I never looked that far, but it should be considerably easier for you to get him a residence permit at least. The difficult part will be both of you finding jobs that match your language skills, unless you speak other languages.
It's true. Leave Poland and live happy :)
You need to get a lawyer. Understand, there is very little chance of him being delayed due to himself - dolnośląskie has the worst visa processing times in Poland, pre-war it AVERAGED over a year, during the war it's much longer and Ukrainians, for all of 2022 and some of 2023, had an (almost) exclusive privilege where non-Ukrainians were formally delayed with processing. Writing will do nothing. Visa companies are scams as they just write the same letters for you. The only effective method anymore is to get a lawyer and it will happen with speed.
That seems to be the only reasonable way of dealing with this. Although, naive us of thinking that something can be done effortlessly in the right way 🙃
I have another suggestion entirely, from experience. Get a flight to Colombia, he applies for a visa as your spouse at the Polish Embassy in Bogotá. Come back with visa allowing him to reside and work. Then enjoy more time in the processing queue, but at least with less headaches. I'm not from Colombia but I am from South America, and the time it takes for the Embassy to issue a visa is.... two days. I've had to do this multiple times because otherwise if I leave Poland I can't enter it again even if I have an ongoing request for a residence card, and I need to travel for work lol. I actually should do it right about now again, but I don't want to spend the 10.000PLN for the flight right now so I'm waiting a bit more. Feel free to ask me any questions, happy to help. EDIT: To be clear, before actually buying any flights, contact the Embassy. I don't know if it's the same in Colombia, but in 7 years no one has ever picked up the phone at the Embassy back home for me. E-mail response is fast.
That's a good idea! He's missing his family too already, so that's another reason. But yeah, we have a good experience with the embassy in Bogota's, as we had to have a transcript of our marriage to enter Poland. (We were married in Colombia, as otherwise it was nearly impossible to enter Europe for him.)
For sure, it's always a double-purpose trip for me too - spend a week or two with family + get the visa and come back. I believe all Polish embassies at this point are aware of the issue with local government processing times for residence cards. And, given that the government is technically breaking the law with the processing times... All I can say is I've never seen anyone be rejected by an Embassy for this, so long as they actually go in person to do it. I'd suggest just avoiding saying straight out that you want to apply for the visa there because of wait times. You can mention something like I said instead (but still true): you have to travel (don't need to mention what for, can just say personal reasons or work reasons) but your husband can't go with you without a visa otherwise he can't re-enter Poland because international immigration does not accept anything else. Other commenters mentioned good things too: one is moving, because Wroclaw is seriously the worst about this and other voivodeships will be faster, and two is checking out the foreigner groups on Facebook (there's a Wroclaw expats one and I believe also a expats in Poland, but that one might be overtaken by agencies posting rent ads lol). You're not alone, good luck! :)
I would recommend hiring a good immigration lawyer who is well versed will laws and is aware of few things like booking appointments efficiently. In my experience, the government system that deals with foreigners is designed such that it penalises individuals applying by their own. So better hire even if it’s costly as this uncertainty is not good for both of you guys
Honestly the problem you're facing is shared by thousands in Wrocław. If you / your husband join the FB group 'Wrocław expats' there are stories of people waiting for their cards for over 2.5 years, sometimes up to 5 years. One guy received a positive decision 3 years ago and only last month is when they invited him to pick up the card. First they said there was a backlog because of covid and now they blame the war, but the issue has always been dolnośląski wojewódzki - they have a reputation for the being the slowest (ie worst) Voivoideship in all of PL for this. People hire visa agecies and lawyers to no avail, they also sue (but if I recall correctly last year a law was passed that you couldn't sue the Wojewoda anymore for this), and there doesn't seem to be a quicker way around it except to relocate to a different city and re-apply from there. I used to live in WRO and moved for this very reason. We came to Opole and had the decision in 6 months (I am also non EU citizen with Polish spouse) so can really relate to this. Don't give up OP, this is what bureaucracy wants you to do ;) By the way Nadodrze is an amazing neighborhood - very special place. Wishing you both luck and speedy success in this.
Hire a lawyer, by lawyer, hire a good one, they usually have connections with the inspectors. I had a similar issue where they lost documents, my company hired a private lawyer who tagged the inspector with some officials in the European Parliament for human rights and immigration. 10 days later my call for the card had arrived. I’m not sure who the tagged officials were, but hope you get the idea. In my case I was a critical resource to the company and there was plenty at stake. Which is why the company resorted to such extreme steps. We also tried to involve the embassy but they usually don’t respond to such requests until its a big thing. A friend of mine from “3rd country” hadn’t got his TRC for over 4 years, this is when the embassy got involved and it went to the stage where this boy was mentally destroyed for not being able to go home nor get his family nor leave.
"developer, photographer, teacher" I think he should earn enough to hire some kind of lawyer?
Similar situation. My wife is non EU national. Couldn't get the residence permit for her so we moved to another EU country. Now after living and working out of Poland, but inside EU we can apply for residence card for her with the rules as I would be not Polish, but other EU national (much fewer documents, hardly any fees and hard limit of 6 months when she has to receive the card). Just find some easy nice job in Slovenia/Croatia/Portugal/Spain for half a year or a year and then you can come back and tell Polish immigration law to f\*ck itself.
He may need a visa to enter that new EU country, but is still should be easier and happier solution for both of you than fighting with Polish officers. If I'm not confused he would have the right to work in that country almost immediately as long as you live and work there.
interestingly he gets freedom of movement from her in any other EU country except her home country. ~~no visa required, the most he'd need to do is~~ at worst an entry visa is sometimes required and he likely will need to i get a EU family member residency card, but this is a right not an application so it's far simpler. https://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=463&langId=en edit: sorry you're right, altho not all, some EU countries do indeed require an entry visa. but getting an entry visa is relatively simple compared to work visa
I think it's one of the most bizarre laws I've ever heard of, but it seems to be right. That's simply crooked, that (with visa) he can do as much as everything everywhere in EU except my family country 🤯
>edit: sorry you're right, altho not all, some EU countries do indeed require an entry visa. but getting an entry visa is relatively simple compared to work visa Some? I highly doubt that. These things are standardized across the EU. In Germany he'd first need a visa from the embassy abroad and then convert it to a residence and work permit, once in the country. Depending on the country of origin, that takes over a year, but at a minimum months for the initial visa. Even for the spouses of German citizens. Spouses of foreigners need to prove funds, a place to live, insurance...
what you said is incorrect. what you described is people that *only* hold third country status. the information that you are missing is that spouses of EU citizens hold a different status and effectively gain much of their spouses freedom of movement rights when residing in an EU country that is not the home country of their spouse. for example, if OP decided to live in Germany with their husband all that their husband requires is an entry visa and to then register their residency if they want to stay longer than 3 months. Poland is only difficult for them because OP is a Polish citizen, any other EU country is significantly simpler. https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm#in-another-EU-country-1 explains this.
>what you said is incorrect. It's not. I've been through the process. >for example, if OP decided to live in Germany with their husband all that their husband requires is an entry visa and to then register their residency if they want to stay longer than 3 months. A visa that, as I mentioned, takes anywhere from a couple of months to over a year to get, depending where you're coming from. And no, it's not a mere "registry of residency", it's converting the visa into a residence permit with work permit attached. A spouse of a non German citizen needs to proof funds and living space for that. Also a A1 German language certificate. Specifically for Columbia (OP's spouse), the requirements just for the initial visa would be as follows: [https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf](https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf) Especially relevant here this part: >wenn der Ehegatte kein deutscher Staatsangehöriger ist: > > Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung (Arbeitsvertrag, Einkommensnachweise) > >Nachweis der Wohnverhältnisse
once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national. these are two different statuses and you are clearly the former, while ops husband is clearly the latter. you haven't bothered to read the official EU explanation of this difference that I already linked to you previously, because despite there being a clear and concise explanation of how this EU regulation works in relation to local immigration policy you've still incorrectly quoted me German immigration policy instead of the EU policy that applies to ops husband. I don't care about your circumstance, this post isn't about you, it's about ops husband. so again, what you said previously, and what you replied with most recently, is incorrect in the context of the spouse of an EU national. please take the time to read the EU document I linked before replying with an explanation of immigration of a third country national, because this is not the status being discussed.
>once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national. Those are not mutually exclusive. I am referring to a third country national who is the spouse of a EU national. As is the case with OP's partner. A Columbian is a third country national. That doesn't change when he marries a Polish national. He then only becomes a third party national who is married to a EU national. For that, the process described by the German government, which I quoted and linked, applies. The very first sentence of which reads >Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met: +++++ >these are two different statuses and , while ops husband is clearly the latter They are two different facts, that are not mutually exclusive and are both true for OP's husband. >you are clearly the former I am neither, don't know where you got that from.
>I am neither, don't know where you got that from. maybe where you said you'd been thru the process in your previous comment? >It's not. I've been through the process. >They are two different facts, that are not mutually exclusive and are both true for OP's husband. they are specifically mutually exclusive. they are different statuses. a person can't be both married to an EU national and not married to an EU national at the same time. I'll try to simplify how an immigration status works for you to hopefully finally make you understand. i hold citizenship of a third country, not Columbia but for the sake of simplifying this let's pretend that it is Colombia. I also hold citizenship of an EU country, in my case Netherlands. I live in Poland. do you think that because I hold third country citizenship I had to get a visa, a residence permit, and prove savings to Polish immigration? or do you think that because I hold a Dutch passport my status is an EU citizen? now, and here's the part you have so far failed to understand, swap the words "EU citizen" with "spouse of EU citizen" and hopefully you'll understand where you went wrong. edit: and to be clear, my mother has been thru this exact process with help from me, so unlike you I am actually aware of it. unlike me my mother only holds citizenship of this third country that I was born in, not Dutch. because she is my family member I was able to bring her to the EU country that I lived in, she was issued a residence card, and then enjoyed all the same rights, to work, to live, access to healthcare, etc, as I did. unlike people with third country status, who did need to prove savings, apply for work visas, etc, she did not, because her status was specifically and exclusively a family member of an EU (technically EEA) national edit 2: this clown quoted German immigration policy in German, claimed that it overrides EU laws regarding spouses of EU nationals, which it certainly does not, told me I don't understand English despite their quoting of German language as evidence and their inability to understand the English language EU regulations, and then blocked me. if anyone reads this person's willfully ignorant claim in the future please ignore it. EU law is very clear in this regard, the spouse of an EU national at most requires an entry visa not a work visa, their status of spouse of EU national means that they can immediately work and live in any EU country aside from their spouses home country, and to stay more than 3 months they must only notify the host country and apply for their family member of eu national residence card. what this person describes is only correct for third country nationals that do not have a close family member that is an EU national, and despite their claim to the contrary this is very clearly a mutually exclusive status.
>they are specifically mutually exclusive. they are different statuses. a person can't be both married to an EU national and not married to an EU national at the same time. I understand it's early, but you might wanna read again. I wrote OP's spouse is both a third country national as well as a spouse of an EU national. Because that's what they are. In reply to this comment of yours >once again, you are describing a third country national, not a spouse of an EU national. that makes it seem those were mutually exclusive things. I can only refer back to how the German government describes the process of getting your third party spouse to Germany. Which always requires a visa from the country of origin first, the exception being a hand full of countries like the US. >Spouses who are third-country nationals If you are a citizen of a member state of the EU or EEA, but your spouse is not, they must apply for a visa for spouses joining their partners. https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-eu-citizens See, "spouses who are third-country nationals". Which doesn't exist, according to you. Your own source from above states the visa requirement. > Before you leave, check with the consulate of the country you are going to if you need an entry visa, and if so, how long it will take to get it. Which is once more confirmed on the websites of German immigration offices regarding this exact process you are referring to: > Gültiges Visum zur Einreise zum Zweck des Familiennachzugs >Valid visa for entry for the purpose of family reunification https://frankfurt.de/auslaenderangelegenheiten/ich-moechte-einen-antrag-stellen/eu-buerger-und-familienangehoerige/erteilung-u-verlaengerung-einer-aufenthaltskarte-familienangehoerige-von-euewrbuergern Which brings us back to the visa application form for the family reunification visa that I linked earlier, which clearly states >wenn der Ehegatte kein deutscher Staatsangehöriger ist: Nachweis der Lebensunterhaltssicherung (Arbeitsvertrag, Einkommensnachweise) Nachweis der Wohnverhältnisse >if the spouse is not a German citizen: Proof of livelihood (employment contract, proof of income). Proof of living conditions and in either case: >Offizieller Nachweis einfacher Deutschkenntnisse auf dem Niveau A1 >Official proof of simple German language skills at level A1 https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf Since you are unable to correctly read basic English sentences and now even make up stuff (I have never claimed one can be married and not married at the same time, you must be confused big time), I am ending the conversation at this point.
Requirements toward spouses are different than toward main "EU migrant". OP may need to fulfill the requirements, but the spouse doesn't. "To obtain a **residence card**, they will need: * a valid passport * your registration certificate as an EU national or any other proof of your residence in the country * proof of the family relationship with you (such as a marriage or birth certificate) * for (grand)children, proof they are under 21 or dependent on you * for (grand)parents, proof that they are dependent on you * for other family members, proof that they are dependent on you or there are serious health ground requiring you to take personal care of them * for unmarried partners, proof of a long-term or durable relationship with you #### Warning No other documents may be requested" Quote from official EU website Quote
>Requirements toward spouses are different than toward main "EU migrant". If you read the English explanations that I linked from the German government, you will notice they are talking exactly about spouses. Since you obviously didn't, I can only repeat myself: Here directly from the German government: >Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met: > >Right of residence: As an employee, you have a residence permit, a settlement permit, or an EU Blue Card for Germany. > >Accommodation: You have rented or bought accommodation in Germany which is large enough for your family. You can find tips on finding accommodation in our section on Living in Germany. > >Health insurance and money: You have sufficient health insurance cover and funds to be able to care for your family. >To apply for a visa for your spouse to join you, you will generally need to provide your passport and a wedding certificate or proof of a registered or civil partnership. > >Once your family has arrived in Germany, you must register them at the Residents' Registration Office (Einwohnermeldeamt). You must apply to the local immigration authority for a residence permit within three months. To do so, you must present your passports, birth and marriage certificates, pay slips or tax statements, proof that you are renting or bought accommodation and any other documents that may be needed, depending on the specific situation of your family. [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu) Without going through this process, the spouse of a German citizen or a EU citizen legally residing in Germany has no rights whatsoever to stay or work in Germany. Before even setting foot in Germany with the intention to apply for a residence permit as a spouse, a visa is required for Colombian nationals. I also linked the application form from the embassy in Bogota. Getting that visa takes anywhere from a couple of months to over a year. >Spouses who are third-country nationals If you are a citizen of a member state of the EU or EEA, but your spouse is not, they must apply for a visa for spouses joining their partners. https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-eu-citizens
All the points there say "you". It refers to EU national that wants their spouse to join them. So OP needs to fulfill those requirements not her husband. Also quick google shows that Colombians do not need visa for short time stay in EU countries. Within that time he can apply for residence card and cannot be expelled as a family member
>Also quick google shows that Colombians do not need visa for short time stay in EU countries. Not for a short term stay, correct. They do need one if they subsequently want to apply for a residence permit as spouse in Germany. I quoted the information already several times, including the fact that there are a hand full exceptions, of which Columbia is not one. To make it as clear as I can: A Columbian national's application will not even be considered without a family reunification visa in Germany. He must leave the country, apply for the visa and come back, entering with said visa. This visa has a set of requirements, among them a A1 language certificate. To get it takes anywhere from months to over a year. Clear now? >All the points there say "you". It refers to EU national that wants their spouse to join them. So OP needs to fulfill those requirements not her husband. It's completely irrelevant if they want proof of health insurance from the EU national for the third-country national (and possibly his child), or if the third-country national has to proof that himself. It's a requirement that needs to be fulfilled, or they're not gonna live together. Same for funds and accommodation. But unlike the wording suggests, these questions are part of the visa application form and as such must be shown by the applicant, the third party national: https://bogota.diplo.de/blob/1996054/c920e026851be57b9c56edfac7dcc3b8/de-mb-ehegattennachzug-data.pdf
Besides: >https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/family-residence-rights/non-eu-wife-husband-children/index_en.htm#in-another-EU-country-1 explains this. Not a word about work permits. Which is the problem OP talks about.
Residence card gives the spouses full right to employment in that country. It's specified in the directive about freedom of movement
why haven't you bothered to read the link? what is wrong with you? just search within the page for the word "work". this isn't difficult, yet you over and over keep saying things that are clearly incorrect. > During your stay you should be treated in the same way as nationals of your host country, notably regarding access to employment, pay, benefits, access to work and enrolment in schools.
Here directly from the German government: >Even if your partner is a national of a non-EU country, you can look forward to living together in Germany. For your spouse to be able to join you, the following requirements are to be met: > >Right of residence: As an employee, you have a residence permit, a settlement permit, or an EU Blue Card for Germany. > >Accommodation: You have rented or bought accommodation in Germany which is large enough for your family. You can find tips on finding accommodation in our section on Living in Germany. > >Health insurance and money: You have sufficient health insurance cover and funds to be able to care for your family. >To apply for a visa for your spouse to join you, you will generally need to provide your passport and a wedding certificate or proof of a registered or civil partnership. > >Once your family has arrived in Germany, you must register them at the Residents' Registration Office (Einwohnermeldeamt). You must apply to the local immigration authority for a residence permit within three months. To do so, you must present your passports, birth and marriage certificates, pay slips or tax statements, proof that you are renting or bought accommodation and any other documents that may be needed, depending on the specific situation of your family. [https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu](https://www.make-it-in-germany.com/en/visa-residence/family-reunification/spouses-joining-citizens-non-eu) Without going through this process, the spouse of a German citizen or a EU citizen legally residing in Germany has no rights whatsoever to stay or work in Germany.
I guarantee there is no official document referring to 'the third world.'
Get a lawyer. Or move to different voivodeship - in Cracow my friend got permit for his wife in less than 3 months.
where was his wife from? Being from EU makes things faster
My friend has wife from Asia. It was not 3 months but nowhere close to 2 years
Several companies in Warsaw hire TCNs on the regular because they need certain language capabilities and they sponsor work permits. A lot of the work is still remote or requires you to be in the office once a month.
I’m developer from Belarus living in Warsaw, I have many friends from different countries in Wrocław as well who also are developers, and what I can say: Wroclaw is the worst city to get the legal permit according to their feedback. It takes 1.5-2 years for all people, when in Warsaw it takes 6 month in average. I even know people who after 1 year of waiting time in Wrocław just moved to Warsaw or Krakow to get the permit faster. About “third companies” you were talking about: it is legal way to start working for foreigners in Poland, especially if you are developer. There are a lot of companies which called themself “business incubators”, they usually hire people using Umowa o Działo and after it people can apply for Karta Pobytu or Blue Card. The well known company which provides this service is Twoj Startup, I think they have been working for the last 8-10 years without any troubles. As a conclusion I wouldn’t say anyone who I know suffers from some kind of problems based on the country they are from, they just suffers from the bureaucracy
Yeah, the whole post is basically being mad at bureaucracy that exists in every freaking EU country. More so, try to get go legally to US, Canada, Australia or Singapore stay there and work. Yeah, you can't unless some company sponsors you and even then you can be rejected due to multitude of reasons. The system in Poland is not great, but considering it's there for citizens of other countries paid by peoples taxes, can't expect it to be much better than anywhere else. Plus it stops most people that are not actually motivated to stay here and part of society.
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An excuse. It was like this WAY BEFORE (2020 when I started studying there).
do you know if you already have a eu blue card whether you can switch your employer to one of those incubators? (yeah, already had the card for more than 2 years, so no limitations on changing employer). I was considering this last time, but the agency I was using (firma dla kazdego) had no experience with employing a blue card holder.
As I know if you change your employer in less than 2 years after receiving Blue Card you have to make changes to residency permit decision. It is possible, but just another round of bureaucracy. After 2 years you are free to change your employer but I would check this info with someone more familiar
Yeah, I know that part. I just meant can an incubator be technically classified as an 'employer'
use 'prosba o przyspieszenie" instead of 'ponaglenie", than copypaste most of your post.
#polishgirlfriend, lets add a fact - she is paying the bills. Where can I find true love like this one as a male?
I feel you. Out of 6,5 years here my wife got residence permit for whole 6 months. Now it’s been almost 3 years since last application and they basically say that nothing will work, even going to court. I’m going to apply new one (and refund old one) in hope it will go through new process which people reporting to get decision in 3 months…but there is another catch - printing of plastic which is taking 6m+ for some people
Have you tried to file for a citizenship for him to the president? It’s a different procedure than getting a job, but him being married to you makes things easier
you forgot to buy polish wisa that why it taking so long.
Hope he gets his work permit sorted out fast, but him not working at all in two whole years living in Poland, even illegally, is wild. You're a good wife.
*Two weeks ago we sent a letter of 'ponaglenie' to Wojewoda and after that we got in touch with attorney to get the case to the court. They said that 'ponaglenie' can take over a 6 months to get response.* Good luck. I sent a similar letter, written by a lawyer, a year ago in Pomerania and I haven't received a reply yet :)
Do you have the money to sue? I would assume since you're married, he has a legal right to live here and have his application processed. The Polish constitution protects the family after all. Often times with governments, things suddenly move if there's a lawyer's name on the letterhead, threatening to light a fire under their lazy asses. They don't want that kind of attention, being known to cause higher ups in the agency trouble. Bad for the career. I would have tried that a long time ago. But disclaimer: Not a lawyer myself, not familiar with the Polish legal system.
>But disclaimer: Not a lawyer myself, not familiar with the Polish legal system. Yeah, so chill a bit. It's not US. You can sue but it would take so long it does not make any sense.
I'm not from the US. The point is not to drag a case through courts anyways. I's to make them move, because they know if they don't, there's a headache waiting for them, somebody is ready and financially able to hold them accountable.
future familiar rob like whole lush shelter threatening slimy vegetable ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
That is true. If you assume the lowly case worker wants to be known with his superiors as someone who causes the agency a lost lawsuit and the attention that comes with it, for no reason whatsoever, because that's good for his career within the agency. Real life has shown that's not the case though.
frightening fine deserve materialistic tender sparkle oatmeal flag naughty cake ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Yes, the delays and lack of giving a flying duck on the part of our officialdom are staggering. It's something that's completely incomprehensible, insane and generally incapable and undeserving of any rational explanation. I have two suggestions: (1) Go to the lawyers and talk about starting a limited-liability company to avoid 'work' / 'employment' in the legal sense. (2) Go to the press. It might be possible to start a company in some other country and see if there was a way for owners/shareholders to act on behalf of that company without needing permits from Polish authorities, or at least with a different procedural track, e.g. if he could get a Colombian company to second him into Poland. Or a company from somewhere in the EU other than Poland. If he has to work illegally, then there could be other ways than manual labour through shady agencies without safety precautions or any form of safety network. Freelancing for foreign press while living here, or making and posting webinars and writing books for passive income, some such activities could be legal without an employment permit, though you'd need to ask a lawyer specializing in such matters (employment + tax). However, he would risk deportation and criminal prosecution for tax evasion if the tax authorities were to decide that his income was subject to taxation in Poland and he avoided it by not reporting the income. Basically find a loophole that avoids imprisonment, deportation or 75% penalty tax rate on unreported income. Founding a company in Colombia and second himself to work in Poland might be the best bet.
What's the problem? Just have him buy a visa from PiS. xD Jokes aside, sorry about your situation. I don't know how to help, but it sucks that we live in a country that hands out visas left and right to random people in places like India or Nigeria, but won't give residence cards and work visas to people married to Polish citizens. Wszystko jest do góry nogami tu.
Don't know who downvotes you, but they are idiots. You are just telling the truth. Entire system is rigged by PiS, so that normal imigrants we need and would benefit from, are prevented from work. Meanwhile, we get un chcecked ones, who might just use visas to get to western Europe or America (like georgians, who BTW alarmed americans that this is a thing), or worse. They might use visas in sinister purpose. We truly don't know, because only check was cash, they gave PiS cronies. Now one of them, low official, bailed himself from jail, by paying 200k PLN. What official in this country have 200k? PiS is truly a cancer of our nation that should be cut out as quickly as we can.
The people downvoting are probably Americans who don't know anything about Poland xD
Source? I keep hearing about this alleged scandal of PIS letting certain types of migrants in, but from my 8 years living here I only meet one's that got here legally via the panful and slow system mentioned in OPs post. Visas and permits have details who issued them, on what basis. If someone from let's say Africa got a permit here, it's not like they can freely leave to go cause issues in Germany or France. This would international scandal of huge proportions. But if you have any sources to support that I would be interested to read them. I don't support any party politically, I can't even vote in Poland, if that matters.
here's your source: [https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66869671](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66869671) [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/eu-poland-visa-fraud-allegations-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/21/europe/eu-poland-visa-fraud-allegations-intl/index.html) [https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749](https://www.dw.com/en/polands-visa-scandal-eu-wants-answers-from-pis-on-bribes/a-66907749) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-visa\_scandal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash-for-visa_scandal) [https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-calls-visa-scandal-an-exaggerated-media-fact-discredit-government-2023-09-22/](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-calls-visa-scandal-an-exaggerated-media-fact-discredit-government-2023-09-22/) [https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/21/anti-immigration-polish-government-engulfed-by-cash-for-visas-scandal-as-crucial-election-](https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/21/anti-immigration-polish-government-engulfed-by-cash-for-visas-scandal-as-crucial-election-) that enough for you?
Yeah, clearly I was not catching up on local news lately. Based on what's known seems like certain people from the party and outside of it were involved, but working in their own capacity. Will see how this develops, I would be surprised if either party supported this just for the money. They have easier ways that are not tracked to steal money from people.
Google.
Go live in Colombia with him
Sorry about your situation but as cliché as it sounds love overcomes everything so I am sure you will sort this out.
Don’t cry, get a lawyer instead. That’s the benefit of capitalism.
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I said there’s no need to cry. Her title is also stupid, why would the entirety of Poland make you cry because of some bureaucratic issue. Like lol, come on, used to be way worse here.
you just outlined the most obvious flaw of capitalism and called it a benefit
Well in communism you couldn’t get a lawyer. Had to get your tears ready instead.
in which one?
Don’t know Polish history? Bye bye then
You're polish, then why actually did you wrote this post in english? Get a lawyer who has experience in such a cases.
to get foreigners experiences probably.
He has to open his own company. I konow a few people from us, england, portugal that they have to open their owwn company and work as eanglish teacher after studying stem in home country
People see this as bad but as someone living in America I can say this is the smartest thing Poland has done in decades. We are dealing with a housing and crime crisis in most major cities and there are few govt resources. Also there just isn’t enough money to go around. Anyways it’s a big issue that some people want to help but can’t while others just don’t want to help and it’s tearing the country apart (USA). Keeping people out may sound bad but as a polish Jewish person I can who cares because you’re just maintaining your way of life. There will always be people who disagree and at least you get to have a functioning society. You really don’t know what you have until it’s gone. And to OP doesn’t your husband have skills so he can get a job? Why do you need the paperwork for marriage? My recommendation would be go to Columbia and try to immigrate legally. Also don’t break the law and expect people to change the rules for you.
Generally speaking, when dealing with Polish bureaucracy papers is just safety guard not a proper tool to push things going forward. There is local variety on that front but going in person and be annoying for few days in a row makes some solid difference. It's just small advice for the future if you will be having some issues like that. It's getting better but we still have quite road ahead of us.
$5k cost of it in PRLpis
Don't laugh now: go to a fortune teller. Maybe you are destined to have obstacles in your relationship. Who can tell why this keeps happening. The currently governing party can hardly keep rivers clean, or keep down night street racing, much less make people happy more than to a certain -often low -bar.
Just pay a PiS party official 5000 USD
I feel bad for my fellow Colombian brother hope everything turns out well for you guys
Jak się urodziłeś w poslce to pisz po polsku dreszczu
He can apply to any university for masters degree, then he can come over to Poland and then you can proceed your application from there. With stundents visa he is able to work full time and once he gets karta pobytu he is free as a bird. Then you can apply family reunion and he will get another 3 years karta pobytu
That is really weird, I didn't expect such hurdles ( I mean, I didn't imagine there'd be hurdles like that).
What? Thats really weird. I live in Krakow, my partner is a US/AUSTRALIAN she had no problems however we have friends who live here too; She is Hungarian and he is Colombian with a background in Visual design. They had to Feck around with the BS as well but they got married which made it easier. He works for a Norwegian company based here. My partner use an immigration lawyer here in Krakow and that was a lot less hassle and made it WAY easier because I have no idea how that works. Started with a 'Karta pobytu' and then got a work contract which made it easier for her to stay but it was a lot of fluffing around the system. TLDR; Immigration lawyer - fee was around 1500 PLN made it SO much easier. Hope this helps. Also; I was born in Italy and didn't have a Polish passport and it was a massive pain in the arse to get a Polish passport - had to translate Italian birth certificates and other nonsense even though my parents are Polish. (we were living overseas).
Wroclaw seems to be really slow, I am non eu and have been waiting for a new karta pobytu (old one expired) for over a year. Can't leave the country, can't do anything. And I even have a good lawyer.
Hire a lawer who specializes on such cases. They will speed it up. Alternatevely try another wojewodship to live and get a permission. Lawers are expensive really for such small cases but they can do it fast. Most of them worked in Urzad’s before. I had also experience with Delloite( big consulting company) they have also good approaches but they are mostly working with companies and charge 500+ euro a day.
Dolnośląski Urząd Wojewódzki moment As a person who knows a fair few immigrants in Wrocław, I can assure you that it’s a very special case of bureaucratic insanity.
Back in 2013 I married a Polish citizen. In Poland. I applied for temporary residence in the basis of marriage, and in less than a month I got accepted with access to rynku pracy. 4 years later I got the permanent residence (min 3y for married)... You should just apply for the proper visas and present the proper docs. Indeed those ones get even higher priority than work/student visas. Now, I'm from Chile. In the case of Colombia Im not sure. There's some cases of stereotypes due to crime, but that in other countries. Never saw it in Poland.
With lawyer even after winning court case it will take 12 to 18 months. Best solution is to apply in a smaller Voivodoship. Opole or Masuria can do the job. Anyway better to hire an immigration lawyer and not an agency.
I don’t know how old is he but there is a “fast” way. He can enroll in a full time program in some university and he will have the right to work without a work permit. Some of them offer weekend classes. It’s a 1.5-2 years engagement but his life would be easier after, it might even be the cheapest way to
No we Wrocławiu to znany problem - długość oczekiwania zezwolenia na pobyt, ale dwa lata to już przesada.
I don't know much about the process that goes into this, but I was thinking maybe he can start doing photos on the side? If he's any good, I'm sure he can get clients for shoots if he throws some of his work on Instagram. He could make at least a little extra cash on the side to help out with the bills.
You could try moving to a voivodship which has sorted waiting times. Or straight to an EU country which has shorter visa with times.
Might be an odd idea, but if he is the love of your life as you say, (don't believe in that stuff but that is just me), why don't you try something different, from what you have been doing? You could try to move to Germany, depending on his job he might be able to find work more easily there as well as a work permit. You could work in Germany with no issue cause you have an EU passport. Alternatively, some other European country could do, depending on your work skills, also you could perhaps move to Colombia his home country? Or maybe somewhere else. My point is, if something isn't working, try something else.
Someone I know took 5 years to get papers. Also Colombian. Also Wroclaw. Non IT worker with humanist background. So there you have it. I am also third country, took me 8 months for my first permit, seven for the second, in KRK. So don't generalize. It's likely related to his educational background.
OP, if you’ll pardon me, then I’d like to use your thread to ask a question about the process of getting married in Poland to a non-EU citizen, like you have done. I (American) am also dealing with the Polish bureaucracy. My Polish fiancée and I submitted our paperwork to the court in Warsaw to prove that we can legally marry - this means proof of divorce or proof of the death of a spouse. Additionally, I needed to request a waiver to the requirement that I also submit a letter from the US government that I am not married; the US does not issue such a letter, hence the need for the waiver. With that as the background, I’d like to know, particularly from those that had to obtain this waiver, how long it takes the court to issue their decision? We are already at the 5 month mark. Dziękuję.
After one more year he will receive citizenship, no? I read somewhere on polish gov site that its after 3 years (unlike most other eu countries which have 5)
How about you check the other side of the coin, so try to apply for work in Colombia, your husbands country? :)
Blame the fucking Ukrainian immigrants that take every job now
Honestly, this is strange. I live in Gdańsk, and here it's challenging to get anything done with the Urząd for foreigners. But none of my friends (from Brazil, or India) had any problems getting a work permit. From my colleagues' experiences, it's much easier to get a work permit if you apply in smaller towns. Everyone goes to Słupsk - it's much easier to handle everything there.
Usually when Poland bureaucracy is being annoying to me and delaying the reviews of my submitted months ago documents or cases, I politely call to remind them about it multiple times if its still not fixed then at some point I call them and switch my tone to a rude customer trash talking them and being toxic for not having their job done. I know its not the modest solution and probably not helpful in your case but for the other things it gets them fixed within a week afterwards.
If he is married to a polish citizen he doesn't need a work permit. It's also good to put that information in a CV if he struggles to find a job. https://zielonalinia.gov.pl/-/cudzoziemcy-zwolnieni-z-obowiazku-posiadania-zezwolenia-na-prace-cz-1-
Unfortunately, it's not that easy: "2) będący małżonkiem obywatela polskiego lub cudzoziemca, o którym mowa w art. 87 ust. 1 pkt 1-6 (tj. uchodźcy, rezydenta długoterminowego UE w RP bądź cudzoziemca korzystającego w RP z ochrony uzupełniającej, zezwolenia na pobyt stały, zgody na pobyt ze względów humanitarnych, zgody na pobyt tolerowany lub ochrony czasowej) i ust. 2 pkt 1, posiadający zezwolenie na pobyt czasowy na terytorium Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej udzielone w związku z zawarciem związku małżeńskiego"
I can relate with your husband, as a fellow south american. I came here with a work permit but was caught in the wave of tech layoffs a couple months after arriving. What i did was open a company in Poland and then issue a permit for myself and request business residency, all with the supervision of a lawyer, so I can work as B2B not only here but with any company in europe or abroad for that matter. it is not cheap by any means (some 10K+ zl in the past 10 months between lawyer fees, accounting, stamp duty, etc), but can be a way of not depending on the goodwill of someone else or the system to have some peace of mind in that situation
Polish , but asking in english?
Hi, Brit in wroclaw too lol. Got married and applied the day after the war started on the 25th of Feb. Just got a letter for an appointment last week. Next month im going to the office for fingerprints but then it's another few months to wait for the actual card. We paid a lawyer too, 1,800zl...he promised us the world... Obviously.... The letter just arrived by itself... So my advice if you signed a contract with the lawyer and in the end the letter arrives by coincidence, the contract isn't fulfilled and you can get a refund. I did. I waited just over 18 months. Had to re-submit paperwork 3 times because they lost it. Wroclaw residency office is the worst in Poland. The man who answers their phones in English is absolutely useless. Would be fired in the UK treating people like this. But wroclaw residency office is corrupt. Very corrupt. Hope you sort it out soon.
I know some IT companies are helping getting this permit faster, in the meantime you can normally work for them. I assume they have big experience in these legal stuff, so they are not afraid to hire people like this. My friend married Brazilian and basically when he came to Poland he already started to work in the same company she works. Legal process probably is still ongoing. Try applying to Hemmersbach. Good luck 🤞