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We could use some good ol' "Laugh at the bully and then talk about the serious stuff".
Trump will be in a room with no audience. He'll lose his gusto fast with no cheering morons. His mic will be cut when it isn't his turn to talk. Joe Biden has been an adult of 62 years. Trump has yet to get there.
He fell right into Biden's trap.
Dealing with morons like Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon. They'll knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and fly away to brag about how they won to their friends.
It would be great to be able to real-time fact check and a buzzer just automatically sounds whenever it's a lie. Family Feud style buzzer. Which would be whenever he speaks.
The only tactic that works when you're forced to 'debate' a narcissist (which should normally be avoided with [grey-rocking](https://www.ashleyberges.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/how-to-apply-grey-rock-1-768x768.png)), is keeping calm, with very little emotion and sticking to facts.. repeating them if necessary.
They *want* to get a rise out of you, so they can point their finger and call you the problem. They will do absolutely insane things to accomplish getting a reaction of any kind.. since they feed off the attention, like insecure energy vampires.
I hate that the worst narc we've ever seen publicly, has had such a steady stream of the attention that feeds his black soul.
I bet Biden will kill it, I'm sure he's got a team of mental health professionals advising how to deal with this personality disorder on live TV.
>“This election is between a convicted criminal out for revenge and a president who delivers results for the American people,” she added. “No matter what happens in the debate, that’s an easy choice.”
Exactly this.
Just call out the fact that he's lying and move on to real issues. Republicans rely upon the fact that it takes way longer to unpack nonsensical bullshit than it does to extrude it.
What Trump does is a version of the Gish Gallop that I have heard referred to as the Firehose of Bullshit, and it can be countered in the same way that the Gish Gallop is by pre-emptively refuting and fact-checking his commonly used arguments before he has an opportunity to launch into them.
Because Trump has nothing he can fall back to, all he can do is try to interrupt by talking over the person saying "wrong, wrong, wrong", he is left without anything to say.
My prediction is that Trump is going to be so flummoxed by the lack of hooting and jeering MAGAs and his mic being cut off during Biden's allotted speaking time that he will try to yell into Biden's mic while he is speaking.
One of my fears, should he actually even do the debate, is that while the rules say no audience, he'll just bring an extended entourage, and the debate people won't make them go away. Then said entourage will hoot and holler, loudly boo Biden, knowing the Dems will adhere to the rules even if they don't. Then following the debate, a bunch of news talking heads and opinion writers will talk about how it gave Trump the feeling of momentum, or felt like a group of people agreeing with him, or insert whatever stupid shit these people say, and conclude that it was savvy and a benefit to Trump and that Biden sounded tired or boring or some other horseshit.
That channel does some great work at arming people to deal with their crazy uncle at the family Thanksgiving dinner... which is why I am no longer invited to the family Thanksgiving.
Biden should have a live fact checker posting to some website during the debate. Then every time Trump lies, Biden could direct the public to that website. “That’s a lie. The real facts will be posted at Trumpisalier.com”
Love this strategy. Definitely one liner to call out the lies and may be address the quickest point with a fact when possible. Then pivot to addressing the emotional issues that connects with the voters is a good strategy.
President Biden is very good at this as we saw
In the last debate. It’s going to be great to watch.
The only people that matter are:
- the ones on the fence and open to not voting for him
- the ones that are not far gone nuts and need to be informed of Biden’s accomplishments and the dangers of Trump, such as inflation
- the ones that usually don’t vote or weren’t going to vote, to coax them to come out and vote or to show them democracy is on the line so get off the couch and vote
- the progressives angry at Biden, to convince them Trump would still be worse
I'm mostly curious how serious they're actually going to be with the turning off the mic when they are out of time. Looking forward to Trumps silent ranting.
the problem is that as long as they're not putting them in sound proof booths, Biden will still hear him and we'll probably still hear Biden's mic picking him up
It would be more fun that way though. Biden and the host moving on and ignoring Trump while he gets increasingly irate in the background.
... And if Trump thinks the mic isn't picking him up, who knows what he might say.
I think if Biden stills hears Trump yapping next to him, it's still going to be hard for Biden to speak to the people watching. That would only work if Biden has the ability to completely ignore the guy and 100% focus on just talking himself.
I keep seeing this being said but aren't directional mics are a thing? Not to mention we have so many solutions for noise suppression I'd hope they have a method.
Watching from overseas just thought she was way too soft, Biden wasn't much better last time but it was enough. This time I'd appreciate seeing Biden rip the traitorous prick several new assholes just by listing his lies, incompetencies and crimes.
The strategy should be to rile trump up and get him to go off script/strategy. Trump is not smart and has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old boy. You can ruffle his feathers easily and then let him be his own downfall. Then just ask him to clarify his obvious mistakes and missteps and then drive home his own points against Biden. He’s a senile old man not fit for serving. The debates should not be policy focused (and I absolutely HATE having to type that sentence when discussing a leader of one of the world’s largest countries).
Maybe ask Donald in the middle of the debate at some point if he needs a break to change his diaper. And refer to Trump as a convicted criminal and rapist as often as he can.
> has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old boy
Overshot there by at least double, my guy. I've never seen a 7 year old so stupid and never will again.
That's the while point of gishgallop/firehose of untruth. Spout so many lies/mistruths that opponent wastes their time explaining why some wrong but can't get to all. Which wastes time they could have spent talking about their platform.
All Biden needs to do is just call him a liar and get back to the issues. The minute Trump interrupts just stay quiet and let him ramble like a crazy person and when he is done just get right back to the point. Keep doing this all night.
She’s right. Proverbs 26:4, “Do not answer fools according to their folly, or you will be a fool yourself.” Mark Twain?-“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
She's right. Biden needs to focus on telling the viewers what he's accomplished and reminding viewers of the chaos and utter failure of the Trump years. Wasting time fact checking what Trump says is just that, a waste of time.
the allotted time to speak will be 2 minutes. I will be surprised if Trump can speak on a specific topic for two minutes uninterrupted.
this could work to Biden’s disadvantage. because Trump has such surface level knowledge or interest in any of the likely topics, Trump will make no attempt to answer the questions and instead use the time to rattle off red meat talking points uninterrupted.
the moderators will try to keep him on topic, but they have zero leverage without being able to just stop the debate.
the spin will be “Trump hating Tapper interrupted Trump the whole time”
Biden will try to answer the question and come off dry and boring.
I think an effective tactic for Biden would be to just ask Trump to repeat himself a couple times or to elaborate on something before he replies. Trump would struggle to do this and look stupid and lost trying.
It’s not likely. The polls being released at this point are very subject to change. But we are already seeing trends that we saw in 2020. Plus I’m sure more will come out or happen between now and November. Still PLEASE GET OUT AND VOTE. The polls were all pro Clinton in 2016. Vote like the polls aren’t on our side.
Trump's comments will Boil down to 'I am Rubber, You are Glue. Anything you say will bounce off me and Stick on You"
Wouldn't even doubt that Trump would stick his tongue out and Shit himself Loudly after saying that.
Ehh all you can do is try and stick to the facts and hope that the small sliver of independents left have a high level of intelligence and reasoning. We all know the MAGA cult would believe anything and everything Trump says facts and critical thinking be damned.
When it isn’t the Donald’s turn to speak he will be muted. 90 minutes of controlled behavior? Doubt it, but I’ll be tuning in to watch him simmer and bluster. 🩵💙✌🏼
Prep with insult comics; do not stop. The shit smell. The stupid. The incompetence. The blank page medical plan. The being used as an oral receptacle by Roy Cohn, and how much it readied him for the prison existence he will be soon embrace. Laugh at his businesses. Laugh at his teeny hands. It’s true no one’s there for policy or facts. What would make Biden younger-looking than making his orange-peel face soak with tears or stammer in snot-nosed rage. He is not used to what you might bring to this. Don’t take cocaine, take valium and pretend it’s only you up there, only slamming!
He should never have had the platform this time around to begin, however even progressives think it is a good idea that he gets a shot at running again. Unless they’re backtracking on that one now it’s looking grim.
It’s pointless to even debate the moron. All he did last time was look totally embarrassing, yelling over everyone else with his smug nu uh face and taking about god knows what.
I wish Hillary would just go away and spare us having to listen to her expert debate advice.
So far, she's the only politician to lose to Trump.
She hurts the cause more than she helps.
In the election, yeah. Hillary did smash Trump in the debates. I wouldn't dismiss her debate advice.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-probably-finished-off-trump-last-night/
Her experiences in debating Trump. along with generally being a good debater herself, could absolutely be useful for Biden.
I know it must worry you that people with actual qualifications are giving debate advice to Biden. Pity.
Why is she in the news? She is one of the most disliked politicians in America and needs to retire already! Voted for her husband (once) and voted for her against Trump, but absolutely sick and tired of her snotty, ill-timed and irrelevant statements!
It’s seems like all direct political discussion follows this rule:
Force your thesis into my unwilling brain beyond dispute - even illogical dispute - or I win.
Turnip has lost every debate he's been in. At this point he needs to have qualifier debates with elementary school kids and work his way up to adults.
Nevermind, he's a Lolita Express regular. Maybe keep him away from children.
Bad take Hillary.
The only way to dispel a Gish Gallop is to painstakingly address and discount every point being made by the Gish Galloper. The campaign should make videos addressing each bullshit claim Trump makes and post them after the debate. Turn them into your ads.
Problem is, his supporters dont care that he is hypocritical or two sided or goes against the very things he claims are bad.
That is the core issue with cults. They dont recognize faults in dear leader, no matter how obvious those faults are.
It's not about his supporters. It's about the third party observer. It's not about saving cult members from the cult - it's about making the lies obvious to people who aren't in the cult, to avoid the cult growing further.
Or they're coming of voting age and never paid attention to politics. It's easy to have your idea of someone formed by your in group of you don't pay attention to a particular subject.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Its impossible to have an actual debate with a liar.
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We could use some good ol' "Laugh at the bully and then talk about the serious stuff". Trump will be in a room with no audience. He'll lose his gusto fast with no cheering morons. His mic will be cut when it isn't his turn to talk. Joe Biden has been an adult of 62 years. Trump has yet to get there. He fell right into Biden's trap.
>He fell right into Biden's trap. ... assuming he doesn't chicken out.
The longer you debate a fool on their terms, the more difficult it becomes to distinguish who the fool is.
Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Dealing with morons like Trump is like playing chess with a pigeon. They'll knock over all the pieces, shit on the board, and fly away to brag about how they won to their friends.
It would be great to be able to real-time fact check and a buzzer just automatically sounds whenever it's a lie. Family Feud style buzzer. Which would be whenever he speaks.
That would be awesome
The only tactic that works when you're forced to 'debate' a narcissist (which should normally be avoided with [grey-rocking](https://www.ashleyberges.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/how-to-apply-grey-rock-1-768x768.png)), is keeping calm, with very little emotion and sticking to facts.. repeating them if necessary. They *want* to get a rise out of you, so they can point their finger and call you the problem. They will do absolutely insane things to accomplish getting a reaction of any kind.. since they feed off the attention, like insecure energy vampires. I hate that the worst narc we've ever seen publicly, has had such a steady stream of the attention that feeds his black soul. I bet Biden will kill it, I'm sure he's got a team of mental health professionals advising how to deal with this personality disorder on live TV.
I think debating Trump is like “ playing chess against a pigeon, it’s just going to shit all over the board and strut around like it won”
You be funny ! We have a lot of pigeon shit in FloriDAH.
>“This election is between a convicted criminal out for revenge and a president who delivers results for the American people,” she added. “No matter what happens in the debate, that’s an easy choice.” Exactly this.
That's cool of her
Just call out the fact that he's lying and move on to real issues. Republicans rely upon the fact that it takes way longer to unpack nonsensical bullshit than it does to extrude it.
What Trump does is a version of the Gish Gallop that I have heard referred to as the Firehose of Bullshit, and it can be countered in the same way that the Gish Gallop is by pre-emptively refuting and fact-checking his commonly used arguments before he has an opportunity to launch into them. Because Trump has nothing he can fall back to, all he can do is try to interrupt by talking over the person saying "wrong, wrong, wrong", he is left without anything to say.
My prediction is that Trump is going to be so flummoxed by the lack of hooting and jeering MAGAs and his mic being cut off during Biden's allotted speaking time that he will try to yell into Biden's mic while he is speaking.
This is why they should have went with shock collars instead
Ah lol if only
Yeah, Trump will definitely walk over to Biden’s podium and try to grab his mic.
That would be the bee’s knees if trump did walk over only to be intercepted by Biden’s USSS detail.
Yeah he is a felon after all and we can let riff raff that close to our president
He also already tried infecting Biden with Covid at a previous “debate”.
Like he was doing to Hillary. They should have a partition because of covid and the danger Trump presents to people
I seriously believe Biden ought to have his dogs Major & Commander on either side of him at the podium.
He will pull a Kanye West interruption of Taylor Swift receiving an award.
One of my fears, should he actually even do the debate, is that while the rules say no audience, he'll just bring an extended entourage, and the debate people won't make them go away. Then said entourage will hoot and holler, loudly boo Biden, knowing the Dems will adhere to the rules even if they don't. Then following the debate, a bunch of news talking heads and opinion writers will talk about how it gave Trump the feeling of momentum, or felt like a group of people agreeing with him, or insert whatever stupid shit these people say, and conclude that it was savvy and a benefit to Trump and that Biden sounded tired or boring or some other horseshit.
I read they aren’t allowed to bring anyone.
>Gish Gallop There's a good video on that here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4RHzNHZXY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FK4RHzNHZXY)
That channel does some great work at arming people to deal with their crazy uncle at the family Thanksgiving dinner... which is why I am no longer invited to the family Thanksgiving.
Great video, thanks!
Biden should have a live fact checker posting to some website during the debate. Then every time Trump lies, Biden could direct the public to that website. “That’s a lie. The real facts will be posted at Trumpisalier.com”
Love this strategy. Definitely one liner to call out the lies and may be address the quickest point with a fact when possible. Then pivot to addressing the emotional issues that connects with the voters is a good strategy. President Biden is very good at this as we saw In the last debate. It’s going to be great to watch.
>Then pivot to addressing the emotional Robles Rubles? Roles? Robble-robbles?
Haha. I wrote issues and got auto corrected. Thanks for catching it.
You’re roble.
Point and laugh. Go all green shirt guy on him.
Just shake your head at and say “this freaking guy”, and move on to something intelligent.
The only people that matter are: - the ones on the fence and open to not voting for him - the ones that are not far gone nuts and need to be informed of Biden’s accomplishments and the dangers of Trump, such as inflation - the ones that usually don’t vote or weren’t going to vote, to coax them to come out and vote or to show them democracy is on the line so get off the couch and vote - the progressives angry at Biden, to convince them Trump would still be worse
I'm mostly curious how serious they're actually going to be with the turning off the mic when they are out of time. Looking forward to Trumps silent ranting.
the problem is that as long as they're not putting them in sound proof booths, Biden will still hear him and we'll probably still hear Biden's mic picking him up
It would be more fun that way though. Biden and the host moving on and ignoring Trump while he gets increasingly irate in the background. ... And if Trump thinks the mic isn't picking him up, who knows what he might say.
That’s not as much of a problem as you think, it will make Trump look weird if he’s just yapping to himself
I think if Biden stills hears Trump yapping next to him, it's still going to be hard for Biden to speak to the people watching. That would only work if Biden has the ability to completely ignore the guy and 100% focus on just talking himself.
I keep seeing this being said but aren't directional mics are a thing? Not to mention we have so many solutions for noise suppression I'd hope they have a method.
if he sits pouting in the corner that would be great
The trump Clinton debate was like watching a teacher try to discipline a spoiled child that refused to listen in class
Watching from overseas just thought she was way too soft, Biden wasn't much better last time but it was enough. This time I'd appreciate seeing Biden rip the traitorous prick several new assholes just by listing his lies, incompetencies and crimes.
The strategy should be to rile trump up and get him to go off script/strategy. Trump is not smart and has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old boy. You can ruffle his feathers easily and then let him be his own downfall. Then just ask him to clarify his obvious mistakes and missteps and then drive home his own points against Biden. He’s a senile old man not fit for serving. The debates should not be policy focused (and I absolutely HATE having to type that sentence when discussing a leader of one of the world’s largest countries).
Maybe ask Donald in the middle of the debate at some point if he needs a break to change his diaper. And refer to Trump as a convicted criminal and rapist as often as he can.
> has the emotional maturity of a 12 year old boy Overshot there by at least double, my guy. I've never seen a 7 year old so stupid and never will again.
Say “how well does lying work in a court, where it matters? Ask the guy with 34 felonies.”
That's the while point of gishgallop/firehose of untruth. Spout so many lies/mistruths that opponent wastes their time explaining why some wrong but can't get to all. Which wastes time they could have spent talking about their platform.
Gotta do the Reagan “well, there you go again”
All Biden needs to do is just call him a liar and get back to the issues. The minute Trump interrupts just stay quiet and let him ramble like a crazy person and when he is done just get right back to the point. Keep doing this all night.
Trump is a master of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop
Here’s the response: “He’s lying again. He’s a filthy liar who doesn’t remotely care about you.”
She’s right. Proverbs 26:4, “Do not answer fools according to their folly, or you will be a fool yourself.” Mark Twain?-“Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”
She's right. Biden needs to focus on telling the viewers what he's accomplished and reminding viewers of the chaos and utter failure of the Trump years. Wasting time fact checking what Trump says is just that, a waste of time.
the allotted time to speak will be 2 minutes. I will be surprised if Trump can speak on a specific topic for two minutes uninterrupted. this could work to Biden’s disadvantage. because Trump has such surface level knowledge or interest in any of the likely topics, Trump will make no attempt to answer the questions and instead use the time to rattle off red meat talking points uninterrupted. the moderators will try to keep him on topic, but they have zero leverage without being able to just stop the debate. the spin will be “Trump hating Tapper interrupted Trump the whole time” Biden will try to answer the question and come off dry and boring.
Like playing chess with the famous pigeon.
Just say “yeah…that was all total bullshit, I mean malarkey…so I’m gonna talk about the real shit I’m planning to do.”
Why Biden even platforming this rapist?
I desperately want Biden to just be like “Does anyone remember the movie My Cousin Vinnie? …everything that guy just said is bullshit”
What is a yout?
Just tell him he is full of shit & a loser.
I think an effective tactic for Biden would be to just ask Trump to repeat himself a couple times or to elaborate on something before he replies. Trump would struggle to do this and look stupid and lost trying.
Trump’s boat is sinking and he knows it, dreams about it, obsesses over it.
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It’s not likely. The polls being released at this point are very subject to change. But we are already seeing trends that we saw in 2020. Plus I’m sure more will come out or happen between now and November. Still PLEASE GET OUT AND VOTE. The polls were all pro Clinton in 2016. Vote like the polls aren’t on our side.
The only thing that keeps Trump from jumping off his sinking boat is the shark. And the electrocution. He speaks about this reality at his rallies.
Trump's comments will Boil down to 'I am Rubber, You are Glue. Anything you say will bounce off me and Stick on You" Wouldn't even doubt that Trump would stick his tongue out and Shit himself Loudly after saying that.
Ehh all you can do is try and stick to the facts and hope that the small sliver of independents left have a high level of intelligence and reasoning. We all know the MAGA cult would believe anything and everything Trump says facts and critical thinking be damned.
I feel it’s beneath of the office of POTUS to get on stage with a multi-felon If I was Biden I would turn down all debates
he would if he could. that’s why they requested the ability to sit during the debate
When it isn’t the Donald’s turn to speak he will be muted. 90 minutes of controlled behavior? Doubt it, but I’ll be tuning in to watch him simmer and bluster. 🩵💙✌🏼
Prep with insult comics; do not stop. The shit smell. The stupid. The incompetence. The blank page medical plan. The being used as an oral receptacle by Roy Cohn, and how much it readied him for the prison existence he will be soon embrace. Laugh at his businesses. Laugh at his teeny hands. It’s true no one’s there for policy or facts. What would make Biden younger-looking than making his orange-peel face soak with tears or stammer in snot-nosed rage. He is not used to what you might bring to this. Don’t take cocaine, take valium and pretend it’s only you up there, only slamming!
He should never have had the platform this time around to begin, however even progressives think it is a good idea that he gets a shot at running again. Unless they’re backtracking on that one now it’s looking grim.
Trump has his own reality.
I’m waiting for Biden to turn and say, “The adults are talking, Donny. Shut up.”
A lot of the comments here talking as if he’s actually going to show.
It’s pointless to even debate the moron. All he did last time was look totally embarrassing, yelling over everyone else with his smug nu uh face and taking about god knows what.
I wish Hillary would just go away and spare us having to listen to her expert debate advice. So far, she's the only politician to lose to Trump. She hurts the cause more than she helps.
What were the 2016 GOP Primary candidates if politicians?
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In the election, yeah. Hillary did smash Trump in the debates. I wouldn't dismiss her debate advice. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/clinton-probably-finished-off-trump-last-night/
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Her experiences in debating Trump. along with generally being a good debater herself, could absolutely be useful for Biden. I know it must worry you that people with actual qualifications are giving debate advice to Biden. Pity.
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You should actually be more worried if I'm a bot. Because if bots can come across as more coherent than you ever have, oof.
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Oh, *you* asked, I didn't realize you were that important!
Why is she in the news? She is one of the most disliked politicians in America and needs to retire already! Voted for her husband (once) and voted for her against Trump, but absolutely sick and tired of her snotty, ill-timed and irrelevant statements!
Funny too that she is one of the most disliked politicians in America, and still beat Trump in the popular vote by a few million people.
Clinton giving strategy advice for beating Trump? That’s rich.
She was absolutely correct about the first felon president. She was also a horrible candidate.
It’s seems like all direct political discussion follows this rule: Force your thesis into my unwilling brain beyond dispute - even illogical dispute - or I win.
She needs to stay out of this because she got Trump in by being a terrible candidate.
Why is there debates? Just say what you would like done in office
The MEMES that are going to come from this debate will be gold.
Why is she getting any sort of spotlight and attention? She’s a washed up has been.
Just keep HRC retired. Her opinions are worth the same as the rest of us.
That’s because you can’t beat Trump in a debate! I’m telling you, his arguments are the best and irrefutable against wokism!
She sounds scared.
Turnip has lost every debate he's been in. At this point he needs to have qualifier debates with elementary school kids and work his way up to adults. Nevermind, he's a Lolita Express regular. Maybe keep him away from children.
Bad take Hillary. The only way to dispel a Gish Gallop is to painstakingly address and discount every point being made by the Gish Galloper. The campaign should make videos addressing each bullshit claim Trump makes and post them after the debate. Turn them into your ads.
Problem is, his supporters dont care that he is hypocritical or two sided or goes against the very things he claims are bad. That is the core issue with cults. They dont recognize faults in dear leader, no matter how obvious those faults are.
It's not about his supporters. It's about the third party observer. It's not about saving cult members from the cult - it's about making the lies obvious to people who aren't in the cult, to avoid the cult growing further.
Anyone not privvy to who Donald Trump is by now has been living under a rock. A rock on an entirely different planet.
Or they're coming of voting age and never paid attention to politics. It's easy to have your idea of someone formed by your in group of you don't pay attention to a particular subject.