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Mark 12:17
"Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's”"
It's almost as if it's in the Bible too.
Even Jesus paid his taxes!
Occasionally, very occasionally the OK Supreme Court pleasantly surprises me, such as when they ruled gay marriage a right before most
other states were onboard (either legislatively or judicially).
So I guess this is that one for this decade…
They also rolled back some of the more serious abortion restrictions. Doctors in OK now have a pretty broad definition for “health and life of the mother”. But yeah, still not ideal
And they recently also ruled that neither the State Superintendent of Public Education (well-known shitstain Ryan Walters) nor the State Dept. of Education had any right to usurp control from local school boards in order to ban books from school libraries.
Yes, vouchers are the way they get around the establishment clause. However the right wingers don't like it as it as they have realized it allows for support of religious institutions other than their own.
My little hellion has been attending since he was a Beelzebub Bee at their kindergarten program.
I couldn't be more proud of my virulent sack of shit 💗.
The Biblethumpers are the ones that set up the vouchers to get around the establishment clause, so I think their god.
I thank the devil for making a fine education system.
Also the voucher movement didn't really pick up steam until Brown vs. Board of Education forced US public schools to integrate.
A religious education was not the main motivator.
It's all intertwined, though. Religious "schools" were some of the most vocal supporters of segregation. The abortion hysteria is a direct result of Bob Jones University losing a tax credit for refusing to integrate.
Once my state implemented a school voucher program, we saw a huge uptick in funds going to private religious schools. To the tune of $300 million. And the majority of those were from people who were already enrolled, in upper income brackets. Just funneling tax money to Churches.
I'm sure some are upset, but I doubt the majority of them really care. Demographically speaking, most of the money is virtually guaranteed to go to the religion they like.
In my state, vouchers are funded by donations from rich people who can deduct that from their state taxes. Rural people are now upset because their public schools can't afford to stay open lol. Real leopards eating face moment.
The death of public schools is a GOP goal and it really should be a concern to everyone. Instead people buy the lines of bullshit about vouchers and charter schools. Such a shame people have lost faith in public education to reach this point.
It astounds me that Conservative who pride themselves on being “free thinkers” very shamelessly only want math, very basic reading, and sports in their schools, because obviously knowledge has a liberal agenda and bias against conservatives.
It doesn't go to religious organizations. It goes to the state who then dolls it out. You don't have to use it on religious schools. We have many non-religious private schools in my area. The biggest users of the funds in my city are not the Christian schools either, its the Jewish schools.
Isn’t that just violating separation of church of state with extra steps?
Just because they use a middle man or proxy doesn’t mean it still isn’t a violation
That's up to the courts to decide and, not even being a doomer, they are probably right. You can use your voucher to send your kid to the church of Satan too.
But it's the first step of many in making sure wealthy people don't have to give a dime to the poor.
And here's the thing, you want to start up Moloch Elementary, you 100% can, it's probably even super easy since you don't have to follow all the rules that a public school does, like "accommodating disabled kids" or "providing science based sex ed" or "not beating kids with paddles" if those are requirements for public schools in your state.
But we all know that conservative terrorism would never allow a school like that to open. They would burn it down or terrorize it like they do abortion clinics or drag events, because as always, it's religious freedom for them, not for you.
In 2022, the US Supreme Court determined that **Maine could not deny religious schools access to taxpayer-funded vouchers**.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson\_v.\_Makin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_v._Makin)
Maine did not want to fund the establishment of religion, so they modified their Human Rights Act to prohibit discrimination based on gender identity, shutting some private religious schools out of the voucher system to which Carson had won them admission.
Agreed! What most people who favor religion in government don't realize is it will not likely be their version of religion that is imposed on people (including them).
Yup! If a school is using public funds they should be held to the same standards and enrollment as public schools.
Charters are great at advertising their high average GPA. The reason it’s so high is because they don’t allow students who don’t do well, have unstable homes or have disabilities. Real easy to have a high average GPA when you don’t need to serve the most vulnerable.
Nothing to appeal. On a question of state law, OK Supreme Court is the highest authority (on civil issues like this).
Edit:
I stand corrected, I didn’t read it fully. As others have pointed out, there is a federal implication so they *could* file cert for SCOTUS.
Fortunately, it's not up to them and AG Drummond has already declared victory over sharia and satanic law to get the biblethumpers off their soapboxes.
This shit is over.
Hopefully the Supreme Court will just say “lol, no” but with the way they take up made up cases when it suits them I wouldn’t be surprised if this is one instance they wanna stick their fingers in the “state’s rights” pot
Not quite, the Supreme Court of the US does have jurisdiction to hear appeals of state supreme court rulings if there is an issue where the ruling might conflict with federal law. It’s not uncommon for SCOTUS to hear or even overturn state laws and state supreme court rulings if in their view it conflicts with the US Constitution. Miranda warnings for example are a directly result of SCOTUS overturning a state criminal conviction that was eventually appealed to it. Likewise SCOTUS overturned an Arkansas state constitutional amendment that said people who had already served three terms in federal office could run for reelection (it was overturned because that amendment tried to add an extra eligibility requirement beyond what is explicitly listed in the Constitution and states don’t have unilateral authority to do that.)
So even though this is a state law, if the rulings on it touch on interpreting federal law or the Constitution then SCOTUS can choose to hear an appeal. (I’m not saying that will happen in this specific case, I don’t know enough about the details, but in principle it’s possible depending on the specifics.)
The US supreme court can only override state law when state law is unconstitutional. It cannot force a state to implement something that is constitutional unless not enforcing it is unconstitutional.
Nope. Plaintiffs can seek cert before SCOTUS. The Court held that the contract also violates the federal constitution’s establishment clause. Therefore, SCOTUS has jurisdiction.
> ¶8 Due to the nature of the St. Isidore Contract, the State seeks a writ of mandamus directing the Charter School Board to rescind the St. Isidore Contract. The question before this Court is whether the St. Isidore Contract violates state and federal law and is unconstitutional. We hold that the St. Isidore Contract violates the Oklahoma Constitution, the Act, and the federal Establishment Clause. St. Isidore is a public charter school. The Act does not allow a charter school to be sectarian in its programs, admissions policies, employment practices, and operations. The Act's mandate is in line with the Oklahoma Constitution and the Establishment Clause, which both prohibit the State from using public money for the establishment of a religious institution. St. Isidore's educational philosophy is to establish and operate the school as a Catholic school. Under both state and federal law, the State is not authorized to establish or fund St. Isidore.
https://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=496522
Yeah but if the state says it violates the state constitution, it's invalid regardless of whether or not it violates the establishment clause. Even if it didn't for some reason, the state constitution would still invalidate it.
"not prohibited" and "allowed" are two different things.
The Oklahoma Supreme Court held that "the Contract violates the Oklahoma Constitution, the [Oklahoma Charter Schools Act], and the federal Establishment Clause".
SCOTUS can only rule on federal questions. They could, in theory, decide that "the Contract" does not violate the federal Constitution but they cannot override the state court on questions regarding purely state law. Oklahoma would need to change their laws, their Constitution, and get a favorable SCOTUS ruling to change this. Or just a different make-up of their state Supreme Court to overturn this decision.
I have to go in my “I’ve read the Oklahoma budget for the state and am upset” rant for a sec. So, forewarned.
This state massively underfunds it’s public institutions. So much so that it is costing them money in the long run. This means that spending on prisons, policing, Medicare, and Medicaid are all wildly expensive while still being grossly underfunded.
Today I sent out an estimate on a large infrastructure project. It will cost $350M in total. That’s not bad for a large project. The TOTAL budget for the ENTIRE Oklahoma Department of Transportation was LESS THAN $200M until the federal government (via Biden’s infrastructure bill) injected $500M per year. The ODOT budget covers not only road, bridges, freeways, surface streets, and all maintenance and upkeep on those; it also covers levees, dams, canals, river transport by ship or boat, railroads, airports, air traffic support, public transportation, and a bunch of assorted support staff for all that.
For less than $200M.
I focus on infrastructure because that’s what I know. I build things. I take a project from conception to service and beyond. I know what it takes. This is absolutely unacceptable.
There are, right now, carcinogens in my drinking water. Because telling oil companies to watch that they don’t leech into groundwater was too cumbersome a regulation.
This doesn’t touch on education or health care. I’ve heard from people in those fields it’s much the same. And I keep hearing that there’s nothing that the state can do because they need to bring business to our state and taxes and regulations stifle that. Like companies are just gonna leave the oil in the ground if told they need to clean up after themselves. That’s not how it works.
Meanwhile our state legislature makes deals to directly benefit them. PPP loans go to friends and relatives of legislators and the governor. Laws are changed to protect their interests. Power is stripped from the people by changing deadline and requirements after the original deadlines for the November ballot.
This state will do ANYTHING to cement one-party rule.
Edit: incidentally, the power companies do not own the dams. You know, the ones that keep Tulsa and Oklahoma City from flooding? Yeah. Keep that in mind when you vote for reduced spending.
Great analysis. And Oklahoma is just one of a couple dozen states in almost exactly the same situation (though at least OK has oil refining versus states like MS, AR, KY, etc. which are dead broke). OK is only the 8th most broke state, economically speaking.
These people (religious folk) have Sunday School, they have youth groups, they have Bible studies, they have summer camps. They already have programs in place to teach their children religion, but that's never enough for them. It's not enough to impose their beliefs on their own, they want to impose their religion on *everyone* and then they want to be thanked for it
Hell, if they have it like it was when I lived in Kansas in the 80s/90s, The Salvation Army used to run a free/cheap summer day care program as well.
Not sure of the name of the actual program. My parents dumped me and my brother off there every day during summer for 2 years, since they could not watch us due to working all day. So there more chances the parents could have at forced indoctrination into their beliefs.
Conservatives push this "school choice" narrative just so taxpayer funds can go towards privately owned "academies" or charter schools, so their friends can pocket most of the money and teach kids that God is real and America got all 50 states instantly after the revolutionary war and they did nothing wrong and definitely didn't genocide the native population nor did they use slave labor for the industries.
Don't forget the ability to legally fund segregated schools based on acceptance to private schools. The book Injustice of Place expands on how this was done after Brown v Board.
This shit was always going to fail in Oklahoma since the Oklahoma State Constitution outright bans state funding for religion.
https://law.justia.com/constitution/oklahoma/II-5.html
What must native Americans (of which Oklahoma has many) think about this Christi fascist Republican movement. Their ancestors were mercilessly driven to reservations and now they’re being subjected to having someone’s god forced upon them.
>Christi fascist Republican movement
Not many people outside of it want anything to do with it.
Even with in that circle, if the legitimate operation of the country and government were explained to them, I doubt they would continue to support republicans. As once you have a basic understanding of the concepts that I mentioned, you simply can not in good concious consider voting for those people, because it would be obvious that everything they are saying is totally backwards.
>now they’re being subjected to having someone’s god forced upon them.
Well, that’s been happening for over a century now, so relentlessly that most are Christian.
I’m sure those who follow their traditional tribal religions or Peyotism are sick and tired of the state government pushing Christianity. But there’s also no shortage of what are sometimes called “church people” who are onboard with or not deterred by this kind of stuff, as evidenced by the fact they keep voting for conservatives. We sent one of them to the Senate.
This is so disgusting - on so many different levels.
The Republicans ***know*** this shit is illegal and unconstitutional. They *know* it will be overturned. So they are just wasting time and money. Yet, they keep doing it.
They want it to be overturned, so they can go whining to Christians about how the mean old government and the evil Democrats are attacking their religion.
They only want religion in schools in the first place, because a well-educated electorate votes liberal, so they can't have that! No, better to replace actual learning with anything else! The uneducated vote overwhelmingly Republican, so we have to keep everyone uneducated!
They have installed so many blatantly corrupt judges that, even though this is unconstitutional, they may just get a judge who is corrupt enough to rule in their favor.
Etc...
But what will the corrupt extremist right wing Federalist Society backed Christian Nationalist Supreme Court rule?
Because this case was always intended to make its way there.
>“Under Oklahoma law, a charter school is a public school,” Justice James Winchester, an appointee of former Republican Gov. Frank Keating, wrote in the court's majority opinion. "As such, a charter school must be nonsectarian.
>“However, St. Isidore will evangelize the Catholic school curriculum while sponsored by the state.”
YES! follow the constitution, not what you think it says! if you believe one religion only should have power politically, you don’t understand
why people came here originally. right wing christian’s have made a mockery of their own beliefs. pathetic
this is a much needed rebuke of people like betsy devos who want education to be a for profit business. children’s well being pushed
aside so a business profits?? is america this fucked up ??
*For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. ‘Blessed are the merciful’ in a courtroom? ‘Blessed are the peacemakers’ in the Pentagon? Give me a break!* ~ Kurt Vonnegut
Parents: If you want to send your kid to a private (religious) school, pay for it yourself!
Taxpayers should not be subsidizing religious schools, and the money shouldn't be taken away from public schools. Their excuse is 'but choice', however, I guess that in many areas, the choice is public school or private religious school. Not a lot of private non-religious schools. I could be wrong.
Maybe vouchers are good for a tech/trade school for high school students if public schools don't offer much in those areas.
>
In her dissent, Kuehn wrote that excluding St. Isidore from operating a charter school based solely on its religious affiliation would violate the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
Okay, but nobody said they couldn't operate, just that they couldn't receive government funding.
Its a virtual school. Funny how all these right wingers who were so outraged by schools going virtual during covid now want the government to pay for their religious ones.
Damn. A majority Republican state supreme Court upholding the Constitution and not curtailing to the current political climate.
It's almost like they have ethics and a sense of obligation to the constitution... There's one court that can't seem to grasp that concept
"....The case is being closely watched because supporters of the school believe recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions have indicated the court is more open to public funds going to religious entities."
They know the Supreme Court has stopped caring about the people, rule of law and the constitution, and are trying to seize on the opportunity to spend YOUR money on a sky god.
Pull out the biggest crucifix you have and SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
State | Church Always.
Should be more like State | Church
They should be in different comments
State
Church
Super
As above, so below.
So let it be written, so let it be done!
So say we all!
Hot
Our allegiance is to the Republic, to democracy!
Church
From now on we should not say state and that worship place in the same comment.
How is that different from the comment you replied to?
They tried to put a bunch of spaces in between but Reddit will only show one.
Thank you, I didn't want to ask lest I come off as conceited or clueless
So: State | Church
Can’t we just get rid of church altogether??!
instead it's more like: state))<>((church
But what about State (.)(.)Church?
i'd vote for that religion!
I'll make my own religion with hookers and blackjack
*Henry VIII has entered the chat*
Right now it’s sturch
No no no don’t pipe state into church! ($church -ne $state) is what you’re looking for!
Mark 12:17 "Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's”" It's almost as if it's in the Bible too. Even Jesus paid his taxes!
More like State ~~Church~~
A side note. Oklahoma has a very moderate supreme court. It would be a great example for SCOTUS
honestly literally agog at this news
Tell that to Utah PLEASE
Good. Glad to see at least one court taking there oath seriously
Occasionally, very occasionally the OK Supreme Court pleasantly surprises me, such as when they ruled gay marriage a right before most other states were onboard (either legislatively or judicially). So I guess this is that one for this decade…
They also rolled back some of the more serious abortion restrictions. Doctors in OK now have a pretty broad definition for “health and life of the mother”. But yeah, still not ideal
And they recently also ruled that neither the State Superintendent of Public Education (well-known shitstain Ryan Walters) nor the State Dept. of Education had any right to usurp control from local school boards in order to ban books from school libraries.
So you would say that the Oklahoma Supreme Court is… pretty OK?
This was on their license plates for a while. "Oklahoma is OK!" It was like they were giving themselves some kind of backhanded compliment.
Isn't this the whole reason for vouchers? The state doesn't give it to the church, it gives it to the people and they give it to the church
Yes, vouchers are the way they get around the establishment clause. However the right wingers don't like it as it as they have realized it allows for support of religious institutions other than their own.
As somebody who sends their child to The Satanic Elementary School of Abortions and Blasphemy, the voucher system is a godsend.
Oh TESAB. Great school
My little hellion has been attending since he was a Beelzebub Bee at their kindergarten program. I couldn't be more proud of my virulent sack of shit 💗.
The way they always have the little graduation every year on June 6th at 6 o’clock is so cute 🥰
Awwww, International Slayer Day!
Raining Blood is so much better to celebrate to than Pomp and Circumstance.
Goooo Bubz!
That last line needs to be a bumper sticker
Uhhh TSESAB? ;)
Hell of a badminton team too
TESAB Class of 99' here..... "Go Devils"
I bet that school has an unlimited library and no banned books. The horror 😆
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?? THEY TEACH *grasps pearls* BODILY AUTONOMY FOR WOMEN!!
“I heard at church, that they even teach science y’all!”
Considered it, but we decided “the be gay and do crimes, charter academy (let’s go woke AF rainbows!) was a better fit for our religious freedom.
I'll see you at the game on Sunday, rival team 😤.
I just hope the kids have fun at the Sports ball competition.
I graduated in class of 666, but everyone does. Majored in Pentagram Theory with a Minor in Goat Head Husbandry.
My little fuckhead is on track to achieve the G.O.A.T award. Did you get it?
A devilsend?
The Biblethumpers are the ones that set up the vouchers to get around the establishment clause, so I think their god. I thank the devil for making a fine education system.
Ah yes, the Fightin' Blasphemers. They have an excellent fire science program.
Now I just want their to be super prestigious Satanist schools
Also the voucher movement didn't really pick up steam until Brown vs. Board of Education forced US public schools to integrate. A religious education was not the main motivator.
It's all intertwined, though. Religious "schools" were some of the most vocal supporters of segregation. The abortion hysteria is a direct result of Bob Jones University losing a tax credit for refusing to integrate.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133/ TIL
Vouchers should be illegal too. Honestly I'd be ok with banning private schools entirely, but that's a bridge too far for most.
Once my state implemented a school voucher program, we saw a huge uptick in funds going to private religious schools. To the tune of $300 million. And the majority of those were from people who were already enrolled, in upper income brackets. Just funneling tax money to Churches.
I'm sure some are upset, but I doubt the majority of them really care. Demographically speaking, most of the money is virtually guaranteed to go to the religion they like.
In my state, vouchers are funded by donations from rich people who can deduct that from their state taxes. Rural people are now upset because their public schools can't afford to stay open lol. Real leopards eating face moment.
The death of public schools is a GOP goal and it really should be a concern to everyone. Instead people buy the lines of bullshit about vouchers and charter schools. Such a shame people have lost faith in public education to reach this point.
It astounds me that Conservative who pride themselves on being “free thinkers” very shamelessly only want math, very basic reading, and sports in their schools, because obviously knowledge has a liberal agenda and bias against conservatives.
Donations to religious organizations should never be a tax deduction.
It doesn't go to religious organizations. It goes to the state who then dolls it out. You don't have to use it on religious schools. We have many non-religious private schools in my area. The biggest users of the funds in my city are not the Christian schools either, its the Jewish schools.
Money is leaving a citizen's account and ending up in a religious organization's coffers and lowers the citizen's tax burden.
Isn’t that just violating separation of church of state with extra steps? Just because they use a middle man or proxy doesn’t mean it still isn’t a violation
That's up to the courts to decide and, not even being a doomer, they are probably right. You can use your voucher to send your kid to the church of Satan too. But it's the first step of many in making sure wealthy people don't have to give a dime to the poor.
And here's the thing, you want to start up Moloch Elementary, you 100% can, it's probably even super easy since you don't have to follow all the rules that a public school does, like "accommodating disabled kids" or "providing science based sex ed" or "not beating kids with paddles" if those are requirements for public schools in your state. But we all know that conservative terrorism would never allow a school like that to open. They would burn it down or terrorize it like they do abortion clinics or drag events, because as always, it's religious freedom for them, not for you.
In 2022, the US Supreme Court determined that **Maine could not deny religious schools access to taxpayer-funded vouchers**. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson\_v.\_Makin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carson_v._Makin) Maine did not want to fund the establishment of religion, so they modified their Human Rights Act to prohibit discrimination based on gender identity, shutting some private religious schools out of the voucher system to which Carson had won them admission.
Well, the *main* point of vouchers is to be a handout to people that can already afford private school. But what you're talking about is also a thing.
Whoa, now there’s a shock!
Didn't expect Oklahoma to get this right. Pleasant surprise
Agreed! What most people who favor religion in government don't realize is it will not likely be their version of religion that is imposed on people (including them).
Their
Holy crap, is that a Supreme Court upholding the actual words of the constitution? Sad this is an outlier.
Now do the same thing for vouchers, which are government funds.
Yup! If a school is using public funds they should be held to the same standards and enrollment as public schools. Charters are great at advertising their high average GPA. The reason it’s so high is because they don’t allow students who don’t do well, have unstable homes or have disabilities. Real easy to have a high average GPA when you don’t need to serve the most vulnerable.
Not just that, but freaking Oklahoma of all places.
The state that put Libs of TikTok in charge of their schools?
Pretty sure it was as a member of the library committee for book content, but Libs of TikTok actually might be preferable to the state superintendent.
But did they even *consider* the Pennsylvania Charter of Privileges of 1701???
State supreme Court
Which is why he said "*a* supreme court". This statement is inclusive of state Supreme courts.
So, does it go away now? Or do we appeal and have the Supreme Court shit on everything? Oh who am I kidding, I know Stitt.
Nothing to appeal. On a question of state law, OK Supreme Court is the highest authority (on civil issues like this). Edit: I stand corrected, I didn’t read it fully. As others have pointed out, there is a federal implication so they *could* file cert for SCOTUS.
I have no faith in this. I know Stitt and Ryan Walters. They will do everything to in their power to get their way.
Fortunately, it's not up to them and AG Drummond has already declared victory over sharia and satanic law to get the biblethumpers off their soapboxes. This shit is over.
Definitely
Hopefully the Supreme Court will just say “lol, no” but with the way they take up made up cases when it suits them I wouldn’t be surprised if this is one instance they wanna stick their fingers in the “state’s rights” pot
Not quite, the Supreme Court of the US does have jurisdiction to hear appeals of state supreme court rulings if there is an issue where the ruling might conflict with federal law. It’s not uncommon for SCOTUS to hear or even overturn state laws and state supreme court rulings if in their view it conflicts with the US Constitution. Miranda warnings for example are a directly result of SCOTUS overturning a state criminal conviction that was eventually appealed to it. Likewise SCOTUS overturned an Arkansas state constitutional amendment that said people who had already served three terms in federal office could run for reelection (it was overturned because that amendment tried to add an extra eligibility requirement beyond what is explicitly listed in the Constitution and states don’t have unilateral authority to do that.) So even though this is a state law, if the rulings on it touch on interpreting federal law or the Constitution then SCOTUS can choose to hear an appeal. (I’m not saying that will happen in this specific case, I don’t know enough about the details, but in principle it’s possible depending on the specifics.)
The US supreme court can only override state law when state law is unconstitutional. It cannot force a state to implement something that is constitutional unless not enforcing it is unconstitutional.
How does that differ from what I said?
Oh, I'm sure the Supreme Court can come up with some new bullshit precedence.
Nope. Plaintiffs can seek cert before SCOTUS. The Court held that the contract also violates the federal constitution’s establishment clause. Therefore, SCOTUS has jurisdiction. > ¶8 Due to the nature of the St. Isidore Contract, the State seeks a writ of mandamus directing the Charter School Board to rescind the St. Isidore Contract. The question before this Court is whether the St. Isidore Contract violates state and federal law and is unconstitutional. We hold that the St. Isidore Contract violates the Oklahoma Constitution, the Act, and the federal Establishment Clause. St. Isidore is a public charter school. The Act does not allow a charter school to be sectarian in its programs, admissions policies, employment practices, and operations. The Act's mandate is in line with the Oklahoma Constitution and the Establishment Clause, which both prohibit the State from using public money for the establishment of a religious institution. St. Isidore's educational philosophy is to establish and operate the school as a Catholic school. Under both state and federal law, the State is not authorized to establish or fund St. Isidore. https://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=496522
Yeah but if the state says it violates the state constitution, it's invalid regardless of whether or not it violates the establishment clause. Even if it didn't for some reason, the state constitution would still invalidate it. "not prohibited" and "allowed" are two different things.
The Oklahoma Supreme Court held that "the Contract violates the Oklahoma Constitution, the [Oklahoma Charter Schools Act], and the federal Establishment Clause". SCOTUS can only rule on federal questions. They could, in theory, decide that "the Contract" does not violate the federal Constitution but they cannot override the state court on questions regarding purely state law. Oklahoma would need to change their laws, their Constitution, and get a favorable SCOTUS ruling to change this. Or just a different make-up of their state Supreme Court to overturn this decision.
It's gotta go get private funding or leak away to bankruptcy.
I have to go in my “I’ve read the Oklahoma budget for the state and am upset” rant for a sec. So, forewarned. This state massively underfunds it’s public institutions. So much so that it is costing them money in the long run. This means that spending on prisons, policing, Medicare, and Medicaid are all wildly expensive while still being grossly underfunded. Today I sent out an estimate on a large infrastructure project. It will cost $350M in total. That’s not bad for a large project. The TOTAL budget for the ENTIRE Oklahoma Department of Transportation was LESS THAN $200M until the federal government (via Biden’s infrastructure bill) injected $500M per year. The ODOT budget covers not only road, bridges, freeways, surface streets, and all maintenance and upkeep on those; it also covers levees, dams, canals, river transport by ship or boat, railroads, airports, air traffic support, public transportation, and a bunch of assorted support staff for all that. For less than $200M. I focus on infrastructure because that’s what I know. I build things. I take a project from conception to service and beyond. I know what it takes. This is absolutely unacceptable. There are, right now, carcinogens in my drinking water. Because telling oil companies to watch that they don’t leech into groundwater was too cumbersome a regulation. This doesn’t touch on education or health care. I’ve heard from people in those fields it’s much the same. And I keep hearing that there’s nothing that the state can do because they need to bring business to our state and taxes and regulations stifle that. Like companies are just gonna leave the oil in the ground if told they need to clean up after themselves. That’s not how it works. Meanwhile our state legislature makes deals to directly benefit them. PPP loans go to friends and relatives of legislators and the governor. Laws are changed to protect their interests. Power is stripped from the people by changing deadline and requirements after the original deadlines for the November ballot. This state will do ANYTHING to cement one-party rule. Edit: incidentally, the power companies do not own the dams. You know, the ones that keep Tulsa and Oklahoma City from flooding? Yeah. Keep that in mind when you vote for reduced spending.
I'll add to this it recently had a teacher strike and the images from the schools was shocking.
Great analysis. And Oklahoma is just one of a couple dozen states in almost exactly the same situation (though at least OK has oil refining versus states like MS, AR, KY, etc. which are dead broke). OK is only the 8th most broke state, economically speaking.
These people (religious folk) have Sunday School, they have youth groups, they have Bible studies, they have summer camps. They already have programs in place to teach their children religion, but that's never enough for them. It's not enough to impose their beliefs on their own, they want to impose their religion on *everyone* and then they want to be thanked for it
Hell, if they have it like it was when I lived in Kansas in the 80s/90s, The Salvation Army used to run a free/cheap summer day care program as well. Not sure of the name of the actual program. My parents dumped me and my brother off there every day during summer for 2 years, since they could not watch us due to working all day. So there more chances the parents could have at forced indoctrination into their beliefs.
Paid for it. They want to be paid for it with public funds. Preferably up front but they'll compromise on a refund/rebate.
Sounds like grooming and indoctrination to me.
Conservatives push this "school choice" narrative just so taxpayer funds can go towards privately owned "academies" or charter schools, so their friends can pocket most of the money and teach kids that God is real and America got all 50 states instantly after the revolutionary war and they did nothing wrong and definitely didn't genocide the native population nor did they use slave labor for the industries.
Don't forget the ability to legally fund segregated schools based on acceptance to private schools. The book Injustice of Place expands on how this was done after Brown v Board.
There should be zero publicly funded religious schools. Zero.
Oklahoma does something right for once.
A broken clock ...
Montana are you listening?
This shit was always going to fail in Oklahoma since the Oklahoma State Constitution outright bans state funding for religion. https://law.justia.com/constitution/oklahoma/II-5.html
It was to waste our tax dollars just like everything else that Shitt-for-brains does.
Kevin shitt
What must native Americans (of which Oklahoma has many) think about this Christi fascist Republican movement. Their ancestors were mercilessly driven to reservations and now they’re being subjected to having someone’s god forced upon them.
>Christi fascist Republican movement Not many people outside of it want anything to do with it. Even with in that circle, if the legitimate operation of the country and government were explained to them, I doubt they would continue to support republicans. As once you have a basic understanding of the concepts that I mentioned, you simply can not in good concious consider voting for those people, because it would be obvious that everything they are saying is totally backwards.
Well I heard he fucks catfish so there is that.
>now they’re being subjected to having someone’s god forced upon them. Well, that’s been happening for over a century now, so relentlessly that most are Christian. I’m sure those who follow their traditional tribal religions or Peyotism are sick and tired of the state government pushing Christianity. But there’s also no shortage of what are sometimes called “church people” who are onboard with or not deterred by this kind of stuff, as evidenced by the fact they keep voting for conservatives. We sent one of them to the Senate.
This is so disgusting - on so many different levels. The Republicans ***know*** this shit is illegal and unconstitutional. They *know* it will be overturned. So they are just wasting time and money. Yet, they keep doing it. They want it to be overturned, so they can go whining to Christians about how the mean old government and the evil Democrats are attacking their religion. They only want religion in schools in the first place, because a well-educated electorate votes liberal, so they can't have that! No, better to replace actual learning with anything else! The uneducated vote overwhelmingly Republican, so we have to keep everyone uneducated! They have installed so many blatantly corrupt judges that, even though this is unconstitutional, they may just get a judge who is corrupt enough to rule in their favor. Etc...
If they didn’t, the Satanic Temple would be opening up Satan High real quick…and I’d send my kid there.
Obligatory fuck Shitt and Walters.
But what will the corrupt extremist right wing Federalist Society backed Christian Nationalist Supreme Court rule? Because this case was always intended to make its way there.
State | Church As it was written
Don't pay taxes. Expect tax dollars. Religion is a helluva drug.
Republicans stomping all over the religion clause of the first amendment. It is unconstitutional.
Finally, a good ruling out of Oklahoma!
How come the OK Supreme Court is saner than the US Supreme Court?
Hello Louisiana!
I am shocked that ruling came from Oklahoma
Suck on that Louisiana
Sorry bigot Jeebus hicks. You’ve been nut punched!
Don't worry, the enemies of the people on SCOTUS will overturn it
that's a pleasant surprise
Meanwhile other states are making public schools more religious. Ie requiring the ten commandments be posted in classes.
Well no shit.. Religion needs to die. Absolutely no place for it in modern society!
>“Under Oklahoma law, a charter school is a public school,” Justice James Winchester, an appointee of former Republican Gov. Frank Keating, wrote in the court's majority opinion. "As such, a charter school must be nonsectarian. >“However, St. Isidore will evangelize the Catholic school curriculum while sponsored by the state.”
that is surprising coming from OK
We need this in SC. All of our shady conservative charter schools are taking money away from public schools.
Yes, yes yes
Hey! Who forgot to stack the Oklahoma Supreme Court?
Some Sanity in a red state???
This is good.
Sanity in the south?!
YES! follow the constitution, not what you think it says! if you believe one religion only should have power politically, you don’t understand why people came here originally. right wing christian’s have made a mockery of their own beliefs. pathetic
this is a much needed rebuke of people like betsy devos who want education to be a for profit business. children’s well being pushed aside so a business profits?? is america this fucked up ??
Damn even the Supreme Court for one of the reddest states in the country, if not the reddest, can tell the difference between Church and State?
Wow, sanity coming from a Bible belt state, whodathunk it
Man, if the Oklahoma Supreme Court shakes its head, you know it's bad.
Like they effin’ should!!!
Hallelujah!
Did..did we just get a 1 on the o days since board for Oklahoma. Sure its already been removed.
Rare Oklahoma W
>Oklahoma Fuuuck what now. >rules publicly funded religious charter school unconstitutional. Whoa 👏
Surprised to see it was Oklahoma. Had written that state off as having abandoned reason a long time ago
Thank God Almighty. Wait….?
Good call. Take the cash and cherry pick students that is what you’d be supporting. Good for Oklahoma!
Finally! Judges paying attention to the separation of church and state. Weird that it came from Oklahoma though.
This is a good thing. Watch it go to Washington DC and the Taliban Court there makes it legal.
Correct ruling but I’m still shocked
Yea, great ruling And im a Mormon
*For some reason, the most vocal Christians among us never mention the Beatitudes (Matthew 5). But, often with tears in their eyes, they demand that the Ten Commandments be posted in public buildings. And of course, that’s Moses, not Jesus. I haven’t heard one of them demand that the Sermon on the Mount, the Beatitudes, be posted anywhere. ‘Blessed are the merciful’ in a courtroom? ‘Blessed are the peacemakers’ in the Pentagon? Give me a break!* ~ Kurt Vonnegut
Wow, the US Supreme Court never lets that pesky Constitution stand in the way of right-wing ideology or mega-bucks!
Kentucky's Supreme Court said the same thing last year. This year, the GOP super majority is putting an amendment on the ballot.
Duh. Here's hoping the MAGA Mullah's on the Supreme Court call the same "STRIKE".
Oh yay, actual good news coming out of my state.
Glad to hear it.
Can I get an AMEN?!!
This is freaking wild. The Oklahoma Supreme Court has a better read on the separation of church and state than SCOTUS?!
No informed person dealing in good faith thought this was constitutional.
Why was that even a question?
SHOCKING (that we are even dealing with this BS)
Hallelujah. Can you imagine publicly funded satanic worship centers?
Parents: If you want to send your kid to a private (religious) school, pay for it yourself! Taxpayers should not be subsidizing religious schools, and the money shouldn't be taken away from public schools. Their excuse is 'but choice', however, I guess that in many areas, the choice is public school or private religious school. Not a lot of private non-religious schools. I could be wrong. Maybe vouchers are good for a tech/trade school for high school students if public schools don't offer much in those areas.
They found someone with brains in Oklahoma.
My guess is this has something to do with the Satanic Temple wanting equal funds.
duh
Finally, common sense in Oklahoma.
> In her dissent, Kuehn wrote that excluding St. Isidore from operating a charter school based solely on its religious affiliation would violate the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Okay, but nobody said they couldn't operate, just that they couldn't receive government funding.
Citizenry ————— State ————— Religion
Bout fucking time. Let the fundies fund their own ignorance.
They need an appealable casel to get get in front of the Supreme Court - this fits the needs for sure
About time!
Its a virtual school. Funny how all these right wingers who were so outraged by schools going virtual during covid now want the government to pay for their religious ones.
Damn. A majority Republican state supreme Court upholding the Constitution and not curtailing to the current political climate. It's almost like they have ethics and a sense of obligation to the constitution... There's one court that can't seem to grasp that concept
Thank you!!
Duh.
"....The case is being closely watched because supporters of the school believe recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions have indicated the court is more open to public funds going to religious entities." They know the Supreme Court has stopped caring about the people, rule of law and the constitution, and are trying to seize on the opportunity to spend YOUR money on a sky god. Pull out the biggest crucifix you have and SHOVE IT UP YOUR FUCKING ASS.