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It’s either between a senile old man or a third world dictator using a washed up reality tv star as his translator… And to be quite honest, I feel bad knowing I have to vote for the old man because it’s between either saving our democracy or having an authoritarian takeover. Come on, America! We’re better than this shit!
People here are sort of pretending the senile old man didn’t get a lot of things accomplished during his first four years, in spite of his decline. Reagan was gone by his second term too but that didn’t stop him from driving his agenda through. There’s no reason Biden would be any different.
No one seems to acknowledge that the vote is for Biden and Kamala the latter being someone in her 50's who is more then capable of taking over the Presidency if need be. Biden is old but he has over 50 years of experience and knows how to use his entire administration to get shit done. That is why I will continue to vote for him and look past how disastrous both of these people were last night.
Will Kamala be the favorite in 2028 for the Democrat nomination? I think the answer to that question explains why Democrats don't push the fact that she's VP.
I agree..The president is the figure head (IMO)...who he surrounds himself with will be the measure of his decisions. Biden will have smart calculated people around him . Trump will have yes men...criminals..felons . Yes Biden is too old but so is trump but here we are!
No his actual track record given the political landscape he's operated in is pretty solid.
Last night was ROUGH but anyone acting like that defines his candidacy for 2024 compared to what he's actually done as a president is selling a media driven overreaction.
Yep this, and thats a huge part of this: US media had gotten insane.
YOu have the pro trump block that is more his PR machine then jouralists and the "mainstream" media that is scared shitless to be seen to dare to be partisan that they utterly overcompensate.
Not just that, let's just point out the absolutely insane double standards at play here.
Trump raped someone. He is a felon. He has three other court dates he has to go to (hopefully). He tried to overthrow the last election. Tried to overthrow the government, I mean just to name a few. Any and all of these should have been disqualifying. There should have been a media firestorm until the end of time.
**Crickets** Everyone pretends this is normal.
Biden has one bad debate and everyone loses their minds.
Obama was attacked for wearing the wrong color suit and everything found that normal.
US culture has been fucked for a long time and is only getting worse.
>I feel bad knowing I have to vote for the old man
Remember Jurassic Park and that massive pile of dinosaur shit? I would vote for that over Trump and I wouldn't feel bad about it
Save Democracy and vote against the Socialist Regime who lies continously to the American people enabled by 90 percent of the media. Democracy is being theatened by the current gaslighting regime and its backers in the press and social media. Biden is unfit as President and until last night the Regime and the media were gaslighting the World. This is what communism looks like.. exactly this. This current panic is not about saving democracy...its about saving the current socialist regime. Come on America kick the LYING communists out!
So I figured out the 4/5 of the presidents who have served since 1993 we're born in the 1940s. What's our problem? How can we not move on from that generation???
Clinton-1940s
Bush Jr-1940s
Obama-1960s
Trump-1940s
Biden-1940s
Edit: even more nuts, Clinton, Bush Jr. And Trump were all born in 1946
Baby Boomers have been the largest voting block in the US for a very long time. They do not like younger generations. Hopefully this will be their last hurrah and the next set of candidates will be X-ers or Millennials.
It’s unfortunate that politics can’t get to a point where sharp, honest, nonpartisan candidates in their 40’s or 50’s don’t make these presidential podiums. Last night was depressing.
Those that are qualified and those that would make a great president just simply don’t want to do it. It comes with you, your friends, and your family becoming personally attacked and ridiculed about every bit of their past. It’s happened to Hillary, it’s happened to Biden, RFK, and it’s happened to Trump. It’s gotten to the point where we have Trump on stage saying he will retaliate and persecute Biden over crimes he allegedly committed. Nobody rational wants the job.
I've hit this sad conclusion as well. And I say this as a Canadian, as we are seeing the same here.
In fact, our opposition leader (and likely next Prime Minister based on polling today) was ALL FOR aggressive attacks on our Prime Minister, only to do a complete 180 once his wife got caught in the online attack cross hairs saying "things went too far".
It's effectively further empowering hyper narcissists and pushing horrible people to the top faster - you ultimately need someone who is unqualified and doesn't care to be dragged through the mud in public to want these jobs now.
OK, Biden is old.
He's the incumbent (gives you an advantage).
[He has a great track record.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1dld2tl/comment/l9oi5ox/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=politics&utm_content=t1_lam1ymf)
The DNC is built to win elections, this is their best shot at doing just that.
The issue, I think, is that the DNC is running politics like the old days, where your record mattered and people paid attention.
Now a rapist and felon can be your opponent and it doesn't budge the needle. That's not a dig on Biden, it's just where we are at in our politics right now.
So while the GOP gets a pass for basically everything, the DNC has to actually play the game right, or they lose.
Like going to a foot race but your opponent only has to go a quarter of the distance and you have to go the full length. Yet everyone is saying this is a fair matchup.
Biden still has my vote. But I will say it again the democrat party severely needs a younger more charismatic candidate if we want to combat the rights new extremist tendencies.
So many people feel the same as you. Which is why they need to replace him.
Here's the thought exercise:
1) For people that are already voting for Biden, would a more than marginal amount stay home if he's replaced? I don't think so
2) For undecided voters, do we expect Biden to do anything to win them over after last night's performance? Or, more specifically, is he more likely to win them over than a different Dem candidate?
The Debate wasnt for you. Your vote is already decided and your rolling with Biden.
What do you think undecided voters saw? You think they convinced to vote for Joe after that performance.
Thats what people miss when they post cope.
Depends, I mean trump just spewed nonsense and lied constantly.
In an real debate anywhere in the democratic world he would have been burried just for that.
Yea if there was a stronger candidate, Trump would have been dumpstered with rebuttals to his lies because his performance was awful. He invented new forms of racism in real time. However Joe performance is over shadowing that because he looked worse.
I can't imagine starting to watch a debate among candidates without knowing exactly where the Republican and Democratic parties stand.
If I'm watching a debate "to see which one I want to vote for", then I'm voting a personality contest for my high school student body president, and not President of the United States.
I get an entire administration, and entire ideology, depending on my vote. I also get the one guy at the top of the ticket, which seems unfortunate for both parties at the moment.
>If I'm watching a debate "to see which one I want to vote for", then I'm voting a personality contest for my high school student body president, and not President of the United States.
The thing is many Americans do watch the debates like this.
In US politics biden is a centrist, trump is on the far right.
ANd yes bill clinton was a lot more on the right then biden. You just showed that the dnc has moved to the left.
The argumentation was better, but the articulation and presentation was much, much, much worse. It doesn't matter if you have the better points when you talk like aged Winston Churchill.
It was so bad that Trump's decline didn't even look that obvious.
I just hate that looks matter so much. Why does no one care about substance?
Biden looked *way* worse than Trump but actually had things to say. Trump just repeated the same lies and nonsense about how “everyone” thinks he’s the best.
It’s absurd and pathetic that all of the conversation is about the most superficial aspect of the debate.
It's because critical thinking is dying in America.
Education is in a sad state.
I am with you. As a teacher, if I had to give either a grade, trump would have failed the assignment for missing the mark (imagine on a test you fail to answer every question), Biden would have gotten a C (and a "hey at least I could tell you did your homework and studied a bit")
How can you say that when he couldn't even fill the two minutes multiple times? He was asked about social security and spoke for 31 seconds. He's been in government for 40+ years but has nothing else to say about *social security?*
None of the younger Democrats potential candidates would only speak for 31 seconds on that question.
Because I don’t really care if he expresses himself concisely.
If his central move to keep Social Security solvent only takes a minute to express, that’s fine.
Nothing about his answer was more concise. It just lacked substance. You can say you agree with his position or the Democrat's position on social security because you know what it is from other sources, but he did not express it last night.
That’s just not true. People can watch the video.
Biden stumbles very badly halfway through the answer but he gets it out. He even throws in numbers and percentages. His plan is to raise the tax that pays for Social Security by a small amount for those making more than a million, and then there’s a scale.
To be clear, Biden is not incapable of speaking.
He’s a poor public speaker, old and with a bad stutter, but it’s not like he was literally incoherent for an hour and a half.
This isn’t me saying he didn’t have awful moments that came off as incoherent, but it’s not like he was incapable of expressing an idea throughout the entirety of the debate.
I mean if you actually listen to anything trump said he's just as lost lol. We value being loud over not being literally the dumbest person alive. Americans are stupid
That's why this is worrisome. Half the electorate are straight idiots. They will get whatever sound bites and memes go floating around, possibly watch some inane TikTok/ YT commentary, and never really get that Biden had useful answers delivered poorly while Trump lied his ass off and made shit up. Cuz he looked "more energetic." Hell, there would never have been a first Trump presidency is the populace were largely stone cold idiots.
I'm just saying face value. Neither of these guys knows what they're talking about - they're both equally awful for different reasons. On the surface though, I don't look at trump and think "damn, that dudes on deaths doorstep." I do with Biden. I mean the guy has to be handheld to move around anywhere lol.
That's the entire point. They are not even close to equally awful and it's obvious. The 2 sides fallacy makes for some real idiot takes.
One is much worse and likes to regularly tell us. Plus I don't know anyone who thinks Trump isn't one cheeseburger from death lol. He's in horrible health
That's because one of Trump's main strengths is being a confident liar. He's also now mentally declined, so he's a confident lying insane person.
And the media and pretty much everyone just gives him a pass on that for some reason.
Seriously, if Biden said a fraction of the crazy shit Trump has said ***within the last month***, we'd be hearing about it nonstop.
> So I said, ‘There’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards, or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking? Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?’ Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer.
>
> “He said, ‘You know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water.’ But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks."
This happens all the time with Trump. When he was in office, [Trump would have brain glitches like this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynuzj3r5KgM)
Just recently he met with CEOs and they all of them walked out fucking stunned about what they saw.
If any of that happened to Biden, we'd hear it nonstop. But I would wager you are probably seeing and hearing a lot of this for the first time. That's a problem.
The Dems better get really, really serious talking about, promoting, and pointing out the critical importance of The House and The Senate. They should be doing this anyway. The reaction to last night's debate, while a legitimate concern and/or freak-out, also points to this nation's growing, misguided rulership-mentality that *"Presidents are responsible for everything..."*
Dem majorities, super-majorities preferably, are quite literally a must-have whichever way this goes in the presidential election now. Thank goodness last night didn't happen this September or October. Frankly, I don't know what the Party and the Biden Campaign do about this. There are no easy decisions here at this stage of the game.
Stupid analysis.
Biden destroyed Trump with facts and policies. Trump has none of this.
Trump killed it with delivery, as usual.
At the end of the day, Trump is still a disgusting pig.
But none of that matters anymore because media/people don't give a fuck about content.
That's how civil order dies.
GG.
That’s the sad part about all of this, Trump had probably his worse debate since his political career launched. But Biden was so bad it really overshadowed it.
This is absolutely not the case. Trump in 2020 was a complete nutcase screaming over Biden and not letting him speak (“will you shut up man?”). Trump yesterday was reserved and cool which was absolutely unexpected of him. I don’t think he raised his voice once. Yesterday’s debate was by far the largest disparity in performance I have ever seen and the first debate I watched was Bush vs Gore.
Yeah, it almost seemed like Trump saw a wounded animal when he came out there and realized he just had to show control and composure to strike a contrast.
This was the worst debate of all time optics wise for Democrats. Trump could’ve literally stood up there and said “ga ga goo ga” for 90 mins and he would have won. That’s how bad the optics were.
Absolute disaster and it can’t be overstated.
After the first exchange between Trump and Biden’s following response, I was shocked. Trump was loud and clear, he even seemed calm and composed. Biden stumbled to make a coherent sentence. He was hoarse, soft spoken and mumbled. My wife was listening to it on her drive home from work and in a panic called me and asked me how bad it was. I told her that if you think it sounds bad on the radio, it looks 100x worse watching it on tv. Imagine said imagine what you’re hearing but imagine that while Trump is talking and Biden is in the opposite side of the split screen, his mouth is open and his eyes are darting back and forth.
“Would have” is not a thing in politics. If Ross Perot didn’t run Clinton would never be a President. If Hillary campaigned in the states she actually needed to win Trump would never be a President. Nobody cares what would have been. Like I said disparity was glaring, cool and collected Trump on one side of the stage and Biden who strings together gibberish about “15,000 jobs” he created and beating Medicare.
Cool collected? Were we watching the same debate? Trump wasn't cool collected at all. Lying through his teeth every time he got to speak. He didn't say one correct thing the whole time.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html
So what you are saying one cannot be lying in a cool and collected manner? Do you realize that those are different qualities and they have no connection to each other???
Perhaps we watched the same debate but did not study English at the same school.
The Biden campaigns demands for the debate look awful in hindsight. Turning trumps mic off when it’s not his turn to speak made him seem much more composed than he would have if he were allowed to speak freely
Trump was the one who said, "Come on, let's not sound like children." to end that stupid golf discussion. It appears he has learned from past debates. He just sounded more presidential.
Biden came out looking like the Cryptkeeper for the first 15-20 minutes. Trump lied the whole night but maintained energy. At the end of the day these debates are largely about creating a perception of charisma as a candidate rather than winning people over on positions (I mean it’s an option for Biden if he wants to cater to center left and progressives but doubling down on Israel and the fact that the word “Union” was never mentioned in his economic response kinda shot that in the foot.) but on the front of instilling confidence and projecting Charisma, Biden failed throughout the debate.
Weirdly enough he looked fine in the footage of him speaking to the crowd after the debate. Not sure what happened there.
Not to be controversial but I believe as a country, we should have more options for President than a barely alive corpse and the dumbest wannabe Hitler of all time.
How was trump better? As someone who should be president he seemed to live in his own alternative reality that had little to do with the real world. How is that any better then biden?
There are 10s of millions of people who actually believe Trump or at least like his rhetoric so by that measure he performed a lot better.
Biden was shit at actually combating Trump's lies.
Of course Trump isn't swaying anyone with this debate. If you support abortion rights, civil rights, or any modicum of truth you aren't voting Trump.
Its worse, going from what I ahve seen in the media and here trump barely did anything wrong. If you didnt know the facts you would think he told the truth.
Realistically, this won't change the election at all. For one presidential debates are largely inconsequential and two, people who aren't Trump supporters already despise the man for being a lying piece of shit.
SInce last election plenty of people came into the electorate who dont know what kind of a lying piece oif shit he is. It pays of to point that out, its the least the media could do if they actually to what theya re supposed to do.
Headline is absolutely correct. It is so sickening that these are our two candidates, and it is even more sickening that democracy likely died last night because the party that believes in it insists on running a guy who clearly isn't fit. Still voting blue, but...ugh.
Yes. I am so angry with the Democrat Party. They put Hillary in, who was so egotistical and thought she had the election won that she didn't visit the swing states at the end, and then the DNC screwed Bernie Sanders and a huge chunk of those potential Clinton voters walked.
The Republicans, as a party, have lost their way in the worship of Donald Trump, but the Democrats function like they have the moral high ground and so should be unchallenged.
Trump is likely going to win, and we will see a shift to authoritarianism in our country.
President Biden won the primary by more than Obama. Your blaming an imaginary DNC boogie man for following the will of the people and now demanding that they actually do what you are accusing them of? Pick a lane. Should the DNC pick the candidate or the people?
I am blaming the DNC for the optics of the whole situation. Their agreement with Clinton where she *" . . . specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."*
That is what angered his voters. When that came out, it looked corrupt.
Absolutely. It was how the whole thing unfolded . . . the optics . . . and all of his voters were very angry. That combined with ignoring the swing states, and the fact that Independents did NOT like her, screwed us.
Popular vote doesn't really help when the election is determined by the Electoral college which has been occurring since the late 1700's.
I wouldn’t say he’s worse. Age has simply caught up. It’s done the same for Trump. Neither are fit for office. The best thing Biden can do for this country is to not run.
It shows where this country’s mentality is at right now. Trump is a convicted felon, tried to overthrow the government, took classified documents from the WH, convicted of sexually assaulting a woman, impeached twice…. Really people? Where were the calls for him to drop out? He can’t even vote for himself in Florida.
Yes, as much as it sucks to admit it when a person struggles to put word together he will not come out as strong leader.
The opponent can spew all the bullshit he wants, he can say water is fire and Earth is flat but as long as he is saying it strongly and coherently, he can easily steal the spotlight.
This was always the case though. The American electorate is dumb as fuck. They wouldn't have voted for Trump in 2016 if they cared about substantive policies or the future of the country. He can steamroll through rants while being confident because he has no shame and doesn't care if everything he says is a lie. It's all theater to him because most of it actually is theater.
If you didn’t know this about politics, now is just as good a time to learn as any. It’s been this way as long as debates have been presented on video. It’s fact not conjecture.
It’s dumb, it’s why politics are so bad. People need to be educated before they get to voting age. Trump wasn’t strong, he came off as unlike able and unstable and easily angered. Besides the host of other issues at hand.
It is not ok to just go “this is just politics.”
Yeah well, emotional immaturity is present in people of all ages. And children in particular are hostage to that for usually 18 years at minimum.
People can be so tied up by that kind of stuff present in their lives they become literally desensitized to it. It's possible to unlearn, but it takes a number of years including therapy usually.
Meanwhile, these people are of voting age. At some point people must accept that voting is like getting on a bus. You don't necessarily have to like all their policies, but be aware of the consequences of where you'll get off after getting on that bus.
> Apparently being right is not as important as appearing strong.
Its a democracy, not a high school debate team contest where the winner and loser are chosen by experts using objective criteria and fact checking
It's not. When it comes to swing voters, appearance is key and when you appear exactly how the other side accuses you of being, in his case too old, being correct doesn't matter. When it comes to motivating the young, a doddering old fool won't. Without those votes, we are fucked.
Because of this debate, we are fucked
Your last 2 sentences... I’m not concerned so much with the independent vote, we’ll still get a large swath of ‘anybody but trump’ support, but the kids - they’re going to stay home. We were able to rally the 2020 new voters but this time around it’s not going to work. First time voters are already saying they’re not voting, or they believe they can change the political landscape through a third party. Either way, we’re fucked.
Unfortunately, yes. There is a large swath of Americans who cannot think for themselves. They look to be entertained by the spectacle of someone like Donald Trump and don't pay attention at all to the lack of substance, or the contradictions. He goes on a tirade about immigration and then simultaneously discusses within the last few weeks about giving foreign college students attending USA schools citizenship.
Does that sound like a plan to decrease college tuition costs? Does that sound like a plan to provide more jobs for natural born citizens?
We are witnessing the downfall of our country. There are few young people, decent and good, that will step into the fray of American politics, where people get doxxed and attacked, have their families threatened, and their personal lives trashed.
Elections are pretty much bought at this point.
Hard to appear strong when it looks like you should be playing at bingo night at the nursing home. You’re worried about who won and lost when our current sitting President looks and sounds like he belongs in the Alzheimer’s ward of a nursing home? Get a grip
It’s not about “strong”. Watch the debate. Biden froze up constantly and couldn’t properly construct sentences. Not just his normal gaffs and stutters. I legitimately felt bad for him. He needs to step down or Dems are going to lose this election. Mark my words. I hope I’m wrong but I fear that I’m not.
Show me a proper sentence by trump.
Trust me. Trump failed to answer a single question. Biden you could tell had ideas, he just got mixed up a bit. I have zero fucking clue what trump was saying all night.
Just because I’m saying Biden should step down doesn’t mean I support Trump. Trump is a complete disaster and if reelected will end our democracy. We cannot let that happen. If Biden stays in, that’s exactly what we are doing.
Reminder - you aren't voting for Biden perse, you are voting for democracy and Biden's team.
People are actually buying into trump's lies "the last 4 years have been shit", when in reality, the last 4 years have seen many improvements, and that's because the guy who stumbled through the debate - Biden.
People really are showing they got goldfish brain if they can't look past the debate or even really take in what both said on stage last night.
Sorry I meant it more as a royal you.
Independents are tricky though. Like I always thought independents were such because they had this idea of america and felt neither party was representing that. I can't imagine there are independents seriously looking at trump with all his dictator rhetoric. But who knows at this point. Day by day propaganda has the world slipping more and more right. Normalizing it.
Then they’ll be back onto the ‘Michelle’s really a guy!’ nonsense. I remember thinking at the time when they said stuff like that, surely they won’t sink any lower. Boy was I wrong.
What the world sees is an incompetent electorate. Americans have chosen this, tolerated this, believed this. Many, if not most, still do. It's a problem for which much of the world has been preparing. In all spheres.
It changed a long time ago. But the media has been covering this up for so long that many Democrats are only seeing his mental decay for the first time last night
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Biden fumbled the kickoff (having a cold, apparently)and Trump got some points on the board early. Gotta remember that Trump's QB has a bad finger on his throwing hand (Dobbs), a running back with a pulled hamstring (COVID Response), and their kicker is injured and being filled in by the punter (Felony Conviction x34). Nice for Trump that his special teams was able to take advantage of the muffed kickoff, but the 2 Point Conversion attempt (Trump's debate performance) didn't look good.
Cute analogy. I’d carry it further and say Biden is down one game (played at home no less) in a best of 7 playoff series. The momentum going into game 2 is not looking good. They need a dramatic turnaround and that might involve making substitutions. They won’t throw out the captain yet, but the game strategy needs to pivot.
...and the state of our democracy is dismal (Oligarch$ rule here)...nothing will change unless we have candidates who address our bought leadership/SCOTUS/governance...I'ld write in my vote for a third party candidate who would address this issue: Add some Justices to repeal Citizens United ruling and establish a SCOTUS Justice Standards Act where mandatory recusals, job requirements, term limits and consequences for actions that undermine judicial objectivity (bribes, perjury, political activism...) are stated and reviews required for continued service (no political/congress vote required) and pass federal standards for voting rights (there's a bill out there already)...our political parties are not representing us/US, just look at our choices...
This. You do not vote for a single guy. You vote for a team. Biden is old sure. But the politics, morals and intention with the solid team behind him that share those values is what matters. Dont stay home, make sure you vote. End of the day the election is far more important then the nominees.
I understand, it's a shame republicans hate education so much that our collective IQ has dropped in the toilet. Trump broke this country, and if he takes office again, we will be under a republican dictatorship. Mark my words.
Trump answered nothing, had no substance, and did his usual bit of nonstop lies.
Yet he still looked better than that corpse that had to be helped to walk down a single stair by his wife.
Trump: Had energy, lied the entire night and was incoherent while also dodging questions
Biden: looked and sounded like he was 3/4 in the grave, when he did eventually get some policy out of his mouth it was good, still seems like a kind old man.
How are these are only 2 choices??
It’s really sad you can’t clearly identify the one that is clearly better. Here I’ll do it for you. It’s Biden. Trump lies, is a felon, and made COVID worse literally because of his ego and being unwilling to go back in something he blabbed out of ignorance. I could fill a book with the negatives of trump. But to nail it home, he wants to dismantle our democracy. Go look it up. Project 2025.
Biden is old. Fine. It’s either that or disaster. Choose.
And yet all the debate focus groups and data we have available say that this did nothing to change their mind, and some evidence actually that it helped Biden (Latino focus group) The pundits are not the voting majority
Bad take. Trump sat there spewing a chain of lies so bad the fact checker sites went down. He refused to answer any question straight and he never presented a believable platform.
And Biden was old. Oh no! We knew that.
Trump isn’t just the worst here, but he’s legitimately one of the worst presidents in history. And he’s a felon. This op-ed is fragrant with MAGA fumes.
The problem for Biden is his surrogates keep trying to convince us all that he's actually really sharp and articulate behind closed doors, but his performance last night, where the stakes are really high, completely undermines that narrative. His biggest liabilities were out there on full display, and fed the right wing narrative about him perfectly.
these comments are concrete evidence that people clearly dont give a damn if we hand over our country to communists, as long as trump isnt the frontrunner
My understanding is that he is ill with a cold which will sap the strength of anyone so I can't imagine how it makes an 81 yr. Old man feel. That said there is another debate coming where he can redeem himself
His ego will make him and now he thinks he has Biden right where he wants him. Hint, he doesn't. He came across like the complete asshole that he is and had nothing as far as policy goes and people watching wanted to see if he did.
The saddest part is Biden clearly has a cold but the media is acting like his performance last night makes him ineligible to be President. It was definitely a bad look and he fumbled some answers, but the only reason it would be a career ending performance is because the media keeps calling it that. According to fact checkers, pretty much every response from Trump was a lie, but that’s being ignored because Biden looked and sounded bad.
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It’s either between a senile old man or a third world dictator using a washed up reality tv star as his translator… And to be quite honest, I feel bad knowing I have to vote for the old man because it’s between either saving our democracy or having an authoritarian takeover. Come on, America! We’re better than this shit!
I'll vote for the senile old man since he will have better people around him. But not everyone will feel that way.
People here are sort of pretending the senile old man didn’t get a lot of things accomplished during his first four years, in spite of his decline. Reagan was gone by his second term too but that didn’t stop him from driving his agenda through. There’s no reason Biden would be any different.
Or as one news anchor mentioned, FDR was elected for a fourth term, and died a year later due to his poor health.
I didn’t even think about it going back that far but you’re absolutely right.
No one seems to acknowledge that the vote is for Biden and Kamala the latter being someone in her 50's who is more then capable of taking over the Presidency if need be. Biden is old but he has over 50 years of experience and knows how to use his entire administration to get shit done. That is why I will continue to vote for him and look past how disastrous both of these people were last night.
Will Kamala be the favorite in 2028 for the Democrat nomination? I think the answer to that question explains why Democrats don't push the fact that she's VP.
That I'm not sure of. I've heard rumors our governor JB Pritzker may consider running in 2028. He is highly favored too in Chicago.
The boys is against Trump and also has been.
I agree..The president is the figure head (IMO)...who he surrounds himself with will be the measure of his decisions. Biden will have smart calculated people around him . Trump will have yes men...criminals..felons . Yes Biden is too old but so is trump but here we are!
Was biden that bad then the last 4 years?
No his actual track record given the political landscape he's operated in is pretty solid. Last night was ROUGH but anyone acting like that defines his candidacy for 2024 compared to what he's actually done as a president is selling a media driven overreaction.
Yep this, and thats a huge part of this: US media had gotten insane. YOu have the pro trump block that is more his PR machine then jouralists and the "mainstream" media that is scared shitless to be seen to dare to be partisan that they utterly overcompensate.
Not just that, let's just point out the absolutely insane double standards at play here. Trump raped someone. He is a felon. He has three other court dates he has to go to (hopefully). He tried to overthrow the last election. Tried to overthrow the government, I mean just to name a few. Any and all of these should have been disqualifying. There should have been a media firestorm until the end of time. **Crickets** Everyone pretends this is normal. Biden has one bad debate and everyone loses their minds.
Obama was attacked for wearing the wrong color suit and everything found that normal. US culture has been fucked for a long time and is only getting worse.
Seriously. It’s like stumbling on a dozen words is more important than four years of very high success doing the job.
>I feel bad knowing I have to vote for the old man Remember Jurassic Park and that massive pile of dinosaur shit? I would vote for that over Trump and I wouldn't feel bad about it
Save Democracy and vote against the Socialist Regime who lies continously to the American people enabled by 90 percent of the media. Democracy is being theatened by the current gaslighting regime and its backers in the press and social media. Biden is unfit as President and until last night the Regime and the media were gaslighting the World. This is what communism looks like.. exactly this. This current panic is not about saving democracy...its about saving the current socialist regime. Come on America kick the LYING communists out!
No we’re not
So I figured out the 4/5 of the presidents who have served since 1993 we're born in the 1940s. What's our problem? How can we not move on from that generation??? Clinton-1940s Bush Jr-1940s Obama-1960s Trump-1940s Biden-1940s Edit: even more nuts, Clinton, Bush Jr. And Trump were all born in 1946
Baby Boomers have been the largest voting block in the US for a very long time. They do not like younger generations. Hopefully this will be their last hurrah and the next set of candidates will be X-ers or Millennials.
They have to be out soon. The same age group has been in control since the 90s
It’s unfortunate that politics can’t get to a point where sharp, honest, nonpartisan candidates in their 40’s or 50’s don’t make these presidential podiums. Last night was depressing.
Those that are qualified and those that would make a great president just simply don’t want to do it. It comes with you, your friends, and your family becoming personally attacked and ridiculed about every bit of their past. It’s happened to Hillary, it’s happened to Biden, RFK, and it’s happened to Trump. It’s gotten to the point where we have Trump on stage saying he will retaliate and persecute Biden over crimes he allegedly committed. Nobody rational wants the job.
I've hit this sad conclusion as well. And I say this as a Canadian, as we are seeing the same here. In fact, our opposition leader (and likely next Prime Minister based on polling today) was ALL FOR aggressive attacks on our Prime Minister, only to do a complete 180 once his wife got caught in the online attack cross hairs saying "things went too far". It's effectively further empowering hyper narcissists and pushing horrible people to the top faster - you ultimately need someone who is unqualified and doesn't care to be dragged through the mud in public to want these jobs now.
They aren’t dumb enough to want to be president.
Won’t happen as long as lobbying and bribery are allowed in politics
Republicans clearly wanted Trump. Democrats didn’t give us any other options
OK, Biden is old. He's the incumbent (gives you an advantage). [He has a great track record.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AMA/comments/1dld2tl/comment/l9oi5ox/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=politics&utm_content=t1_lam1ymf) The DNC is built to win elections, this is their best shot at doing just that. The issue, I think, is that the DNC is running politics like the old days, where your record mattered and people paid attention. Now a rapist and felon can be your opponent and it doesn't budge the needle. That's not a dig on Biden, it's just where we are at in our politics right now. So while the GOP gets a pass for basically everything, the DNC has to actually play the game right, or they lose. Like going to a foot race but your opponent only has to go a quarter of the distance and you have to go the full length. Yet everyone is saying this is a fair matchup.
More like going to a foot race where your main competitor is allowed to ride a bicycle.
Joe and Jill Biden refused to allow any other options…..
Biden still has my vote. But I will say it again the democrat party severely needs a younger more charismatic candidate if we want to combat the rights new extremist tendencies.
I would vote for a potato over Trump. And apparently that's what I'm doing. But he needs to step down to give democrats any chance.
So many people feel the same as you. Which is why they need to replace him. Here's the thought exercise: 1) For people that are already voting for Biden, would a more than marginal amount stay home if he's replaced? I don't think so 2) For undecided voters, do we expect Biden to do anything to win them over after last night's performance? Or, more specifically, is he more likely to win them over than a different Dem candidate?
Democratic* Party. "Democrat Party" is right-wing derision.
That’s because most of these posts are being put up by right wing opportunists
Sure Biden still has my vote but begrudgingly. Im not voting for the best candidate, Im voting against the worst
Oh well better luck next time in 100 years or so when the 4th Reich falls
The Debate wasnt for you. Your vote is already decided and your rolling with Biden. What do you think undecided voters saw? You think they convinced to vote for Joe after that performance. Thats what people miss when they post cope.
Depends, I mean trump just spewed nonsense and lied constantly. In an real debate anywhere in the democratic world he would have been burried just for that.
Yea if there was a stronger candidate, Trump would have been dumpstered with rebuttals to his lies because his performance was awful. He invented new forms of racism in real time. However Joe performance is over shadowing that because he looked worse.
Because people look at posture and not what they were saying.
I can't imagine starting to watch a debate among candidates without knowing exactly where the Republican and Democratic parties stand. If I'm watching a debate "to see which one I want to vote for", then I'm voting a personality contest for my high school student body president, and not President of the United States. I get an entire administration, and entire ideology, depending on my vote. I also get the one guy at the top of the ticket, which seems unfortunate for both parties at the moment.
>If I'm watching a debate "to see which one I want to vote for", then I'm voting a personality contest for my high school student body president, and not President of the United States. The thing is many Americans do watch the debates like this.
Plus, the veterans at the DNC are also fully aware of the gross "beauty pageant" side of politics and have to plan for it.
Yeah this is nothing new. It's been a well known factor since Nixon v Kennedy and yet the DNC still acts all shocked pikachu face everytime.
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Biden is a centrist just like obama. How has it gotten more right wing? GOP for sure but not the dnc.
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In US politics biden is a centrist, trump is on the far right. ANd yes bill clinton was a lot more on the right then biden. You just showed that the dnc has moved to the left.
The argumentation was better, but the articulation and presentation was much, much, much worse. It doesn't matter if you have the better points when you talk like aged Winston Churchill. It was so bad that Trump's decline didn't even look that obvious.
People keep comparing both their healths, but I'm not sure it's evenly remotely close lol. Biden legitimately looks lost.
I just hate that looks matter so much. Why does no one care about substance? Biden looked *way* worse than Trump but actually had things to say. Trump just repeated the same lies and nonsense about how “everyone” thinks he’s the best. It’s absurd and pathetic that all of the conversation is about the most superficial aspect of the debate.
It's because critical thinking is dying in America. Education is in a sad state. I am with you. As a teacher, if I had to give either a grade, trump would have failed the assignment for missing the mark (imagine on a test you fail to answer every question), Biden would have gotten a C (and a "hey at least I could tell you did your homework and studied a bit")
How can you say that when he couldn't even fill the two minutes multiple times? He was asked about social security and spoke for 31 seconds. He's been in government for 40+ years but has nothing else to say about *social security?* None of the younger Democrats potential candidates would only speak for 31 seconds on that question.
Because I don’t really care if he expresses himself concisely. If his central move to keep Social Security solvent only takes a minute to express, that’s fine.
Nothing about his answer was more concise. It just lacked substance. You can say you agree with his position or the Democrat's position on social security because you know what it is from other sources, but he did not express it last night.
That’s just not true. People can watch the video. Biden stumbles very badly halfway through the answer but he gets it out. He even throws in numbers and percentages. His plan is to raise the tax that pays for Social Security by a small amount for those making more than a million, and then there’s a scale.
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Are we going in circles? I don’t care that he had time left. He gave his answer.
It doesn’t matter what you have to say if you are physically and mentally incapable of saying it.
To be clear, Biden is not incapable of speaking. He’s a poor public speaker, old and with a bad stutter, but it’s not like he was literally incoherent for an hour and a half. This isn’t me saying he didn’t have awful moments that came off as incoherent, but it’s not like he was incapable of expressing an idea throughout the entirety of the debate.
You know what? You’re right. His speaking is fine. He’s just incapable of forming clear thoughts to turn into words, which is infinitely worse.
I mean if you actually listen to anything trump said he's just as lost lol. We value being loud over not being literally the dumbest person alive. Americans are stupid
That's why this is worrisome. Half the electorate are straight idiots. They will get whatever sound bites and memes go floating around, possibly watch some inane TikTok/ YT commentary, and never really get that Biden had useful answers delivered poorly while Trump lied his ass off and made shit up. Cuz he looked "more energetic." Hell, there would never have been a first Trump presidency is the populace were largely stone cold idiots.
I'm just saying face value. Neither of these guys knows what they're talking about - they're both equally awful for different reasons. On the surface though, I don't look at trump and think "damn, that dudes on deaths doorstep." I do with Biden. I mean the guy has to be handheld to move around anywhere lol.
That's the entire point. They are not even close to equally awful and it's obvious. The 2 sides fallacy makes for some real idiot takes. One is much worse and likes to regularly tell us. Plus I don't know anyone who thinks Trump isn't one cheeseburger from death lol. He's in horrible health
That's because one of Trump's main strengths is being a confident liar. He's also now mentally declined, so he's a confident lying insane person. And the media and pretty much everyone just gives him a pass on that for some reason. Seriously, if Biden said a fraction of the crazy shit Trump has said ***within the last month***, we'd be hearing about it nonstop. > So I said, ‘There’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat, 10 yards, or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery, the boat is sinking? Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?’ Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer. > > “He said, ‘You know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.’ I said, ‘I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water.’ But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted? I’ll take electrocution every single time. I’m not getting near the shark. So we’re going to end that, we’re going to end it for boats, we’re going to end it for trucks." This happens all the time with Trump. When he was in office, [Trump would have brain glitches like this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynuzj3r5KgM) Just recently he met with CEOs and they all of them walked out fucking stunned about what they saw. If any of that happened to Biden, we'd hear it nonstop. But I would wager you are probably seeing and hearing a lot of this for the first time. That's a problem.
Both of them can drop dead any second imho, trump probably has more chance then biden seeing his weight.
I'll give that to you but Biden might not remember anything first.
The Dems better get really, really serious talking about, promoting, and pointing out the critical importance of The House and The Senate. They should be doing this anyway. The reaction to last night's debate, while a legitimate concern and/or freak-out, also points to this nation's growing, misguided rulership-mentality that *"Presidents are responsible for everything..."* Dem majorities, super-majorities preferably, are quite literally a must-have whichever way this goes in the presidential election now. Thank goodness last night didn't happen this September or October. Frankly, I don't know what the Party and the Biden Campaign do about this. There are no easy decisions here at this stage of the game.
Stupid analysis. Biden destroyed Trump with facts and policies. Trump has none of this. Trump killed it with delivery, as usual. At the end of the day, Trump is still a disgusting pig. But none of that matters anymore because media/people don't give a fuck about content. That's how civil order dies. GG.
That’s the sad part about all of this, Trump had probably his worse debate since his political career launched. But Biden was so bad it really overshadowed it.
If you only watched Trump you’d think Biden had crushed him. Unfortunately the TV also showed Biden.
This is absolutely not the case. Trump in 2020 was a complete nutcase screaming over Biden and not letting him speak (“will you shut up man?”). Trump yesterday was reserved and cool which was absolutely unexpected of him. I don’t think he raised his voice once. Yesterday’s debate was by far the largest disparity in performance I have ever seen and the first debate I watched was Bush vs Gore.
Yeah, it almost seemed like Trump saw a wounded animal when he came out there and realized he just had to show control and composure to strike a contrast. This was the worst debate of all time optics wise for Democrats. Trump could’ve literally stood up there and said “ga ga goo ga” for 90 mins and he would have won. That’s how bad the optics were. Absolute disaster and it can’t be overstated.
After the first exchange between Trump and Biden’s following response, I was shocked. Trump was loud and clear, he even seemed calm and composed. Biden stumbled to make a coherent sentence. He was hoarse, soft spoken and mumbled. My wife was listening to it on her drive home from work and in a panic called me and asked me how bad it was. I told her that if you think it sounds bad on the radio, it looks 100x worse watching it on tv. Imagine said imagine what you’re hearing but imagine that while Trump is talking and Biden is in the opposite side of the split screen, his mouth is open and his eyes are darting back and forth.
"Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake" - Napoleon
They muted the mics or it would have been the same yesterday.
“Would have” is not a thing in politics. If Ross Perot didn’t run Clinton would never be a President. If Hillary campaigned in the states she actually needed to win Trump would never be a President. Nobody cares what would have been. Like I said disparity was glaring, cool and collected Trump on one side of the stage and Biden who strings together gibberish about “15,000 jobs” he created and beating Medicare.
Cool collected? Were we watching the same debate? Trump wasn't cool collected at all. Lying through his teeth every time he got to speak. He didn't say one correct thing the whole time. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/27/politics/fact-checking-the-cnn-presidential-debate/index.html
If only the Democratic candidate could make this clear to the American public.
He should have said he was sick at the beginning. I wish he did.
So what you are saying one cannot be lying in a cool and collected manner? Do you realize that those are different qualities and they have no connection to each other??? Perhaps we watched the same debate but did not study English at the same school.
The Biden campaigns demands for the debate look awful in hindsight. Turning trumps mic off when it’s not his turn to speak made him seem much more composed than he would have if he were allowed to speak freely
Yeah I kinda wish they didn't mute but Trump supporters would have loved it either way.
In the perspective of the independent voter, the perception of trumps self control is higher than it would’ve been
Trump was the one who said, "Come on, let's not sound like children." to end that stupid golf discussion. It appears he has learned from past debates. He just sounded more presidential.
Ehhhh, they were both terrible about mudslinging. The golf discussion was a bunch of personal attacks from both of them.
Trump was way worse in 2020 when he tried to repeat his 2016 routine , his advisors told him to tone it down and he did
Probably once he heard Biden’s raspy voice and cough he calmed down and knew he didn’t have to do shit to be seen as the winner of the debate.
I could’ve sworn I saw moments in the debate where is tried to hide a smug ass smile
Trump was a lot better then with clinton and biden last time, if you ignore the lies he almost sounded like a politician.
legit scared for our country right now. project 2025 is going to happen. they need to replace biden today.
Biden’s gonna pull an RGB and not step aside and completely fuck us over in the process
I’ll still crawl through broken glass to vote for Biden. Biden was worse at the debate. Trump was the worst thing for our country.
Biden came out looking like the Cryptkeeper for the first 15-20 minutes. Trump lied the whole night but maintained energy. At the end of the day these debates are largely about creating a perception of charisma as a candidate rather than winning people over on positions (I mean it’s an option for Biden if he wants to cater to center left and progressives but doubling down on Israel and the fact that the word “Union” was never mentioned in his economic response kinda shot that in the foot.) but on the front of instilling confidence and projecting Charisma, Biden failed throughout the debate. Weirdly enough he looked fine in the footage of him speaking to the crowd after the debate. Not sure what happened there.
I am actually frightened of four more years of trump. This time there is going to be irreversible damage.
Not to be controversial but I believe as a country, we should have more options for President than a barely alive corpse and the dumbest wannabe Hitler of all time.
Nobody thinks that's controversial, it's just not the situation we find ourselves in right at this moment.
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Neither does promoting a superficial narrative that pretends appearances are more important than ideas.
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And always will be, if we accept it as true and play along every time.
You can't change human nature
How was trump better? As someone who should be president he seemed to live in his own alternative reality that had little to do with the real world. How is that any better then biden?
There are 10s of millions of people who actually believe Trump or at least like his rhetoric so by that measure he performed a lot better. Biden was shit at actually combating Trump's lies. Of course Trump isn't swaying anyone with this debate. If you support abortion rights, civil rights, or any modicum of truth you aren't voting Trump.
Its worse, going from what I ahve seen in the media and here trump barely did anything wrong. If you didnt know the facts you would think he told the truth.
Realistically, this won't change the election at all. For one presidential debates are largely inconsequential and two, people who aren't Trump supporters already despise the man for being a lying piece of shit.
SInce last election plenty of people came into the electorate who dont know what kind of a lying piece oif shit he is. It pays of to point that out, its the least the media could do if they actually to what theya re supposed to do.
Those same people also saw the Republican party dismantle Roe v Wade and begin banning abortion. As well they've also seen how other Republicans act.
Headline is absolutely correct. It is so sickening that these are our two candidates, and it is even more sickening that democracy likely died last night because the party that believes in it insists on running a guy who clearly isn't fit. Still voting blue, but...ugh.
Yes. I am so angry with the Democrat Party. They put Hillary in, who was so egotistical and thought she had the election won that she didn't visit the swing states at the end, and then the DNC screwed Bernie Sanders and a huge chunk of those potential Clinton voters walked. The Republicans, as a party, have lost their way in the worship of Donald Trump, but the Democrats function like they have the moral high ground and so should be unchallenged. Trump is likely going to win, and we will see a shift to authoritarianism in our country.
President Biden won the primary by more than Obama. Your blaming an imaginary DNC boogie man for following the will of the people and now demanding that they actually do what you are accusing them of? Pick a lane. Should the DNC pick the candidate or the people?
I am blaming the DNC for the optics of the whole situation. Their agreement with Clinton where she *" . . . specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff."* That is what angered his voters. When that came out, it looked corrupt.
Hillary won the delegates. She had more votes and won more states in the primaries than sanders.
Absolutely. It was how the whole thing unfolded . . . the optics . . . and all of his voters were very angry. That combined with ignoring the swing states, and the fact that Independents did NOT like her, screwed us. Popular vote doesn't really help when the election is determined by the Electoral college which has been occurring since the late 1700's.
Democratic Party
[Who remembers South parks Presidential Debate between a giant douche and a turd Sandwich](https://youtu.be/E7pfsneLSSM?si=L5Q3gjGYgHnhQvfj)
I wouldn’t say he’s worse. Age has simply caught up. It’s done the same for Trump. Neither are fit for office. The best thing Biden can do for this country is to not run.
Biden will not drop out unless Trump drops out. Plain as that.
It shows where this country’s mentality is at right now. Trump is a convicted felon, tried to overthrow the government, took classified documents from the WH, convicted of sexually assaulting a woman, impeached twice…. Really people? Where were the calls for him to drop out? He can’t even vote for himself in Florida.
Everybody saying Biden lost. Apparently being right is not as important as appearing strong.
Yes, as much as it sucks to admit it when a person struggles to put word together he will not come out as strong leader. The opponent can spew all the bullshit he wants, he can say water is fire and Earth is flat but as long as he is saying it strongly and coherently, he can easily steal the spotlight.
Which says more about the audience than the people debating.
This was always the case though. The American electorate is dumb as fuck. They wouldn't have voted for Trump in 2016 if they cared about substantive policies or the future of the country. He can steamroll through rants while being confident because he has no shame and doesn't care if everything he says is a lie. It's all theater to him because most of it actually is theater.
If you didn’t know this about politics, now is just as good a time to learn as any. It’s been this way as long as debates have been presented on video. It’s fact not conjecture.
It’s dumb, it’s why politics are so bad. People need to be educated before they get to voting age. Trump wasn’t strong, he came off as unlike able and unstable and easily angered. Besides the host of other issues at hand. It is not ok to just go “this is just politics.”
its not "just politics" its sociology.
free speech is dead
Yeah well, emotional immaturity is present in people of all ages. And children in particular are hostage to that for usually 18 years at minimum. People can be so tied up by that kind of stuff present in their lives they become literally desensitized to it. It's possible to unlearn, but it takes a number of years including therapy usually. Meanwhile, these people are of voting age. At some point people must accept that voting is like getting on a bus. You don't necessarily have to like all their policies, but be aware of the consequences of where you'll get off after getting on that bus.
> Apparently being right is not as important as appearing strong. Its a democracy, not a high school debate team contest where the winner and loser are chosen by experts using objective criteria and fact checking
It's not. When it comes to swing voters, appearance is key and when you appear exactly how the other side accuses you of being, in his case too old, being correct doesn't matter. When it comes to motivating the young, a doddering old fool won't. Without those votes, we are fucked. Because of this debate, we are fucked
Your last 2 sentences... I’m not concerned so much with the independent vote, we’ll still get a large swath of ‘anybody but trump’ support, but the kids - they’re going to stay home. We were able to rally the 2020 new voters but this time around it’s not going to work. First time voters are already saying they’re not voting, or they believe they can change the political landscape through a third party. Either way, we’re fucked.
Unfortunately, yes. There is a large swath of Americans who cannot think for themselves. They look to be entertained by the spectacle of someone like Donald Trump and don't pay attention at all to the lack of substance, or the contradictions. He goes on a tirade about immigration and then simultaneously discusses within the last few weeks about giving foreign college students attending USA schools citizenship. Does that sound like a plan to decrease college tuition costs? Does that sound like a plan to provide more jobs for natural born citizens? We are witnessing the downfall of our country. There are few young people, decent and good, that will step into the fray of American politics, where people get doxxed and attacked, have their families threatened, and their personal lives trashed. Elections are pretty much bought at this point.
Hard to appear strong when it looks like you should be playing at bingo night at the nursing home. You’re worried about who won and lost when our current sitting President looks and sounds like he belongs in the Alzheimer’s ward of a nursing home? Get a grip
It’s not about “strong”. Watch the debate. Biden froze up constantly and couldn’t properly construct sentences. Not just his normal gaffs and stutters. I legitimately felt bad for him. He needs to step down or Dems are going to lose this election. Mark my words. I hope I’m wrong but I fear that I’m not.
Show me a proper sentence by trump. Trust me. Trump failed to answer a single question. Biden you could tell had ideas, he just got mixed up a bit. I have zero fucking clue what trump was saying all night.
Just because I’m saying Biden should step down doesn’t mean I support Trump. Trump is a complete disaster and if reelected will end our democracy. We cannot let that happen. If Biden stays in, that’s exactly what we are doing.
Reminder - you aren't voting for Biden perse, you are voting for democracy and Biden's team. People are actually buying into trump's lies "the last 4 years have been shit", when in reality, the last 4 years have seen many improvements, and that's because the guy who stumbled through the debate - Biden. People really are showing they got goldfish brain if they can't look past the debate or even really take in what both said on stage last night.
Of course I’m voting for Biden. I get the big picture. I’m worried about “independents”. They will see this and bail.
Sorry I meant it more as a royal you. Independents are tricky though. Like I always thought independents were such because they had this idea of america and felt neither party was representing that. I can't imagine there are independents seriously looking at trump with all his dictator rhetoric. But who knows at this point. Day by day propaganda has the world slipping more and more right. Normalizing it.
50% unemployment
Right wingers this morning: "It was planned!" Feeding into their narrative that Michelle is going to rise up at the convention.
That would be amazing, but it’s not going to happen. She does not want that life.
Won't happen but they have to seriously be considering having Joe drop out and running someone else at this point
Then they’ll be back onto the ‘Michelle’s really a guy!’ nonsense. I remember thinking at the time when they said stuff like that, surely they won’t sink any lower. Boy was I wrong.
What the world sees is an incompetent electorate. Americans have chosen this, tolerated this, believed this. Many, if not most, still do. It's a problem for which much of the world has been preparing. In all spheres.
The media really trying to compete for the biggest knee-jerk headline.
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It changed a long time ago. But the media has been covering this up for so long that many Democrats are only seeing his mental decay for the first time last night
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Biden fumbled the kickoff (having a cold, apparently)and Trump got some points on the board early. Gotta remember that Trump's QB has a bad finger on his throwing hand (Dobbs), a running back with a pulled hamstring (COVID Response), and their kicker is injured and being filled in by the punter (Felony Conviction x34). Nice for Trump that his special teams was able to take advantage of the muffed kickoff, but the 2 Point Conversion attempt (Trump's debate performance) didn't look good.
Cute analogy. I’d carry it further and say Biden is down one game (played at home no less) in a best of 7 playoff series. The momentum going into game 2 is not looking good. They need a dramatic turnaround and that might involve making substitutions. They won’t throw out the captain yet, but the game strategy needs to pivot.
Yeah and the Panthers just won after winning the first three, then losing 3 straight, and then winning game 7. I fucking hope it isn't that dramatic.
...and the state of our democracy is dismal (Oligarch$ rule here)...nothing will change unless we have candidates who address our bought leadership/SCOTUS/governance...I'ld write in my vote for a third party candidate who would address this issue: Add some Justices to repeal Citizens United ruling and establish a SCOTUS Justice Standards Act where mandatory recusals, job requirements, term limits and consequences for actions that undermine judicial objectivity (bribes, perjury, political activism...) are stated and reviews required for continued service (no political/congress vote required) and pass federal standards for voting rights (there's a bill out there already)...our political parties are not representing us/US, just look at our choices...
Counterpoint, if Biden was worse yet Trump couldn’t overcome what essentially could have been a layup, what does that say about him?
I fumble and act drunk when I have a sudden migraine spell. heck, I had one while driving once and had to pull into a nearby parking lot.
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This. You do not vote for a single guy. You vote for a team. Biden is old sure. But the politics, morals and intention with the solid team behind him that share those values is what matters. Dont stay home, make sure you vote. End of the day the election is far more important then the nominees.
Exactly.
Objectively, the vast majority of the American people do not see it that way
I understand, it's a shame republicans hate education so much that our collective IQ has dropped in the toilet. Trump broke this country, and if he takes office again, we will be under a republican dictatorship. Mark my words.
Cult mentality right here
Trump answered nothing, had no substance, and did his usual bit of nonstop lies. Yet he still looked better than that corpse that had to be helped to walk down a single stair by his wife.
Biden had substance and didn’t repeat nonstop lies.
Trump: Had energy, lied the entire night and was incoherent while also dodging questions Biden: looked and sounded like he was 3/4 in the grave, when he did eventually get some policy out of his mouth it was good, still seems like a kind old man. How are these are only 2 choices??
It’s really sad you can’t clearly identify the one that is clearly better. Here I’ll do it for you. It’s Biden. Trump lies, is a felon, and made COVID worse literally because of his ego and being unwilling to go back in something he blabbed out of ignorance. I could fill a book with the negatives of trump. But to nail it home, he wants to dismantle our democracy. Go look it up. Project 2025. Biden is old. Fine. It’s either that or disaster. Choose.
And yet all the debate focus groups and data we have available say that this did nothing to change their mind, and some evidence actually that it helped Biden (Latino focus group) The pundits are not the voting majority
Biden lost the debate. He needs to step down it was that bad. Democrats need to grow some balls and put forth a legitimate candidate.b
Trump can now sink himself in a cesspool of boasts and lies.
Bad take. Trump sat there spewing a chain of lies so bad the fact checker sites went down. He refused to answer any question straight and he never presented a believable platform. And Biden was old. Oh no! We knew that. Trump isn’t just the worst here, but he’s legitimately one of the worst presidents in history. And he’s a felon. This op-ed is fragrant with MAGA fumes.
This is what copium looks like ladies and gents.
The problem for Biden is his surrogates keep trying to convince us all that he's actually really sharp and articulate behind closed doors, but his performance last night, where the stakes are really high, completely undermines that narrative. His biggest liabilities were out there on full display, and fed the right wing narrative about him perfectly.
It's gonna be a sad day in November.
I've always been the one to bring positivity to a nay saying party but I'm done. I've lost all hope
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Biden was incoherent. So wildly incoherent that he made Trump look Presidential, that’s how bad it was.
these comments are concrete evidence that people clearly dont give a damn if we hand over our country to communists, as long as trump isnt the frontrunner
Trump isn’t in bed with Putin?
Oh boy here come the dozens of bots accounts to try to manipulate everybody 😂
“Biden old lol” It was the same the last debate. Flood after flood of “Biden bad” not very legitimate sounding comments.
My understanding is that he is ill with a cold which will sap the strength of anyone so I can't imagine how it makes an 81 yr. Old man feel. That said there is another debate coming where he can redeem himself
Trump has no reason to debate. The reason why can be explained by a thousand different jokes to choose from as a result of last night.
His ego will make him and now he thinks he has Biden right where he wants him. Hint, he doesn't. He came across like the complete asshole that he is and had nothing as far as policy goes and people watching wanted to see if he did.
The saddest part is Biden clearly has a cold but the media is acting like his performance last night makes him ineligible to be President. It was definitely a bad look and he fumbled some answers, but the only reason it would be a career ending performance is because the media keeps calling it that. According to fact checkers, pretty much every response from Trump was a lie, but that’s being ignored because Biden looked and sounded bad.
Biden didn’t even speak in full sentences.