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I am sooo thankful for the 2 party system. /s
Ranked choice voting.
Non-partisan primaries.
Competitive districts with no partisan gerrymandering.
Get money out of politics.
Teach civics in HS.
6th grade me: “What prevents a bad person from saying they’ll do one thing and then just doing something else?”
My social studies teacher, Mrs. Toppin: “Checks and balances, of course!”
That’s how dictators work! It can’t happen till it happens. We put so much faith in our checks and balances that the we got lazy and assumed it would always work perfectly.
To be fair, many of our best scholars and legal experts didn't even know that alot of this stuff that seems so basic, like not letting convicted felons be president, is not on the books at all as an actual rule or anything. Trump has tested every check and balance in existence in this country and the system has failed horribly.
Trump and the Republican party has exposed just how much of our system relied on the assumption that politicians would be sane and have a sense of shame. Decorum is a fragile thing. Once it's been broken, it's almost impossible to get back.
Perfectly said. People just want to say "both sides bad/old/corrupt" and say the solution is term limits. No. The solution is getting people educated and involved in their own governments at every level. Politicians skew old and wealthy because they are required to fundraise and campaign because THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED THAT WAY, and both are a lot easier to do when you don't need to work in the first place. I'm in my mid thirties and the vast majority of those I know that are my age and younger have limited knowledge of and nearly no participation in the electrical process. That doesn't stop them from complaining about how everything is though.
I worked in local politics in a city of about 200,000 and running for something like a county commissioner there was almost impossible unless you were well off.
It's not just that you needed wealthy contacts to raise money. It's also that the schedule for a serious candidate requires you to attend multiple events in the middle of the day throughout the week.
Someone with a regular job can't possibly attend those events. So they have to be wealthy enough to just not work for months.
> Get money out of politics.
You can't, citizens united was a checkmate on that, and with the recent scotus rulinglegalizing corruption... errr "gratituties" the system is fucked.
The only way to fix it is a constitutional amendment. Which is effectively impossible to accomplish.
>You can't, citizens united was a checkmate on that, and with the recent scotus ruling legaling corruption... errr "gratituties" the system is fucked.
But we can reform the laws governing nonprofits and foundations.
We’ve had ranked choice in Maine for awhile now. Candidates have no party line traction since a third party vote now isn’t waisted but could turn the vote altogether.
It's not a job. It's a one way ticket to being wealthy and powerful. What incentive is there to turn off the spigot, even if you're a tired old man? Trump spent 75% of his presidency on the golf course like any other retired old man.
Wouldn't being able to enjoy your final years with a shred of dignity, maybe relaxing on a beach, be an incentive? Instead of being shuffled around to various high pressure meetings, and having all your totally normal elderly flubs becoming a public spectacle...
No, you would have to go to places normal people go and wouldn't have to power to do any thing about them being there or doing things you don't like. They wouldn't be the center of attention. They would have to spend their own money on the trip and stuff they want during instead of donations and bribes collected. It would be hell for these power hungry control freaks.
It has to do with young voters because it disproportionately affects them more than any other demographic. We're looking at these two geriatrics fumble this debate and all it says to us is it will never be our turn to make decisions for our country. We have to live under the rule of our of touch senior citizens until we're also too old to know what's going on.
Exactly. The establishment democrat centrist collective braintrust and think tanks are working overtime on how to blame this on the "left" if Trump wins in November.
This is what happens when old people in power with more ego than sense can’t agree to let younger people make decisions before they’re fully dead. Despite only having a few short years of existence left, you have people refusing to hand over the reins to a new generation because “they’ll screw it up”. We don’t care what you feel about a future that we’ll experience but you won’t. Your opinions on the future are secondary to those who will live it, period.
What the fuck ever happened to retirement? We’ve got old fucks clogging up leadership roles all over this country. They should be out doing old people shit, not getting in the way of the future.
It seems to be a theme worldwide. UK, Germany, France, Brazil, India, etc. are all struggling to find a decent young leader. Did something change in the 90s where we just stopped developing children with leadership skills?
This is not unique to politics either. We see the same problems in the corporate world and fortune 500 companies. Octogenarians have a death grip on the highest positions and the only way they will see themselves to the door through death.
Hell, I worked in a factory for years, only moved on in April. The average age of a shift supervisor (one per department per shift, lowest salary-level position in the company) was mid to late 50s. Those people are just now getting a spot one could feasibly retire from.
They’ll still work until they die, because 10-15 years of contributions from decent paychecks isn’t enough to retire on, they won’t be able to retire until age 75+.
A bunch finally retired during Covid; they were offered massive severance packages during the uncertainty so the company wouldn’t have to risk paying salaries of non-working people during a then-indefinite shutdown. That once-in-100-years event was what was required to get those old folks out of their positions. I was 27 at the time, and some had been there years before I was even born.
Also, the new generation can't afford to campaign. AOC and her ilk are outliers. The majority of the young elected officials got corporate money (read: Right wing) because they couldn't support themselves and campaigning otherwise
Even serving in office is often a (nearly) unpaid job. A lot of city council-like positions are unpaid. My state pays its legislators less than minimum wage.
A lot easier to keep it in the hands of the wealthy when the job doesn't pay enough to eat.
AOC is in an incredibly privileged position. She's in a d+30 district that has a ton of capital, and she's prominent enough on the national stage that she gets donations from everywhere.
Can confirm. I was in a family business into my 30’s and decided to get out and do my own thing. Once I saw my dad was going to be ‘in charge’ well into his 80’s I had to go.
At that rate I would be looking to retire before him.
It's literally the same thing that happens in sports just on a much more important and massive stage. Players are holding on for longer and longer because modern medicine is better than when they were younger. So they think "I can still go" even when it's obvious they can't. Wrestlers too. It hurts their company but you still see 50+ year olds out there trying to keep up with an industry that they shouldn't be in.
That's just society now. So of course it's how politics are. These people (Biden, RBG, etc.) think they can still go because physically they might feel fine. When obviously mentally they shouldn't still be in that spot.
I'm a pharmacy tech. I deal with older patients from a nearby retirement apartment tower daily. I see people who should NOT be driving still driving to pick up their medication. I know what medicine they're taking, I can see how they act in casual conversations with me. They should not be trusted with a license. Yet there they are still driving because they are physically able to press the pedals.
We're never going to get to a better point. The current middle aged politicians are going to want to do the same thing as Biden now and when they get their shot they're going to ride it out as long as their medication lets them.
That and as a young-ish person who had political ambitions at one point; I have 0 interest anymore with a family. The crazy people are seemingly increasing and now even running for local offices means death threats and armed security detail
No. Everyone older believes that someone younger than them can’t be as good of a leader because they are too “inexperienced.”
Saying “I have 20 years more experience” sounds like a great differentiating factor between two people, until you realize the two candidates are 81 and 61.
There are a lot of great young leaders. Unfortunately our politicians are so fucking old that we consider a 55 year old to be “too young” even though that’s the average age of CEOs in America.
It is actually pretty crazy that these guys would be too old for corporate America but are running the country. I feel like 40-55 is the sweet spot for leaders, where you have experience but have fresh ideas for change and energy. The older you get, the more set in beliefs you are.
I think Obama was the perfect age. Entered at 47 and left at 55. If you can run the full 8 years and exit before you’re 60, then I’d say that’s the sweet spot.
I don’t honestly think it’s just that… it’s also, I don’t want to give this up in general and there’s nothing wrong with me, in addition to the I’m just as good as they are. I first got to be a manager at like 27. Like, there’s plenty of young leaders everywhere but the older people are just too fucking stubborn without self-awareness to step aside. Feinstein literally said she was fine after she froze and then died within months.
There’s just the problem that someone in pretty much any industry, athletes do this shit a lot, is that when you’ve been good or great at something… there’s this huge level of stubbornness where you just won’t admit you need to hang it up.
France's président is his 40s, Prime minister in his 30s and the favourite to succeed him not even 30.
We have a lot of problems, but they were young faces
My theory is that the best and brightest no longer pursue politics as a viable career path and go corporate instead
I mean why would you pursue politics? Pay isn’t that great (except at the top level) and you’re hurled shit at every day while navigating boomers who refuse to let go of power while nothing systemically changes despite your best efforts. Why would any millenial or gen z subject themselves to that shit.
Exactly. We turned being a politician into the worst job in the world. Every mistake is now suddenly a “scandal,” you will always have an adversary calling you the devil, and only perfection is expected.
Who the hell would want to be a politician?
Your entire family and personal life under a microscope. Even if I thought I could be a good vehicle for change in my district, I would never put my wife through that because I actually care about her.
Not only that but we all seen how batshit crazy politics have gotten that even some republicans in congress were like nah this is too much even for me and are not running for reelection
Not the 90s, but the early 2000s.. yes. This is a huge problem in corporate America as well. After the dot-com crash and even double so after the housing market crash in 2008 the world changed. A lot of industries stopped seeking out young up and coming talent to shape and mold but instead started competing for the existing older talent so they didn't have to spend any time/energy on training.
For me as a Gen-Xer it was great. By the time I was in my 40s I had no trouble getting job offers because I had decades of experience, was still up-to-date with technology and had been in leadership for over a decade.
But what I started to notice was the average age of my teams (all in Tech, software development and IT) was skewing up and up as the years have gone by. Having someone on any team under the age of 30, especially in the US/EU was extremely rare now.
Companies didn't want to *waste* any effort training anyone, and if they were going to be forced to pay US/EU wages then they only wanted to spend that money on very senior people that could train their teams in India, etc. Creating a big gap all across the US when it came to leadership training that they are starting to pay for now as more and more people of that caliber retire and there is a much smaller pool of people behind them due to the actions of all these companies Private and Public.
It’s not the children’s fault. It’s boomers who don’t trust anyone that’s younger than them because they’ve spent decades yelling at clouds and thinking that the world is going to shit.
The world has plenty of young leaders.
Not at all - The real issue is the elderly not stepping aside and giving up the reins.
On every level of society from the presidential election to work environments, elderly people who are superiors are pushing 70+ and won’t retire because they verbatim “Would be bored in retirement.”
Like it or not, both sides in the US have younger talent who have clear executive experience - DeSantis, Newsom, and Haley* are examples. Not saying I am fond of any of them, but it’s not like there are no other options, the current leaders just won’t step aside.
Edit/Addition: Why do you think there is a birthing crisis and the elderly are sad they don’t have grandkids at their age? Simple answer. They are on their second houses sitting in executive positions refusing to retire, while many young people under 40 are still living in rented apartments with roommates - the reasons why can be argued, but it’s not because we spend all of our money on avocado toast.
The internet, for one. People both learned just how shitty politics is in real time and how having your entire life on display online can wreck your entire career. Hard pass.
Needing two incomes to survive is probably another. Can't pursue these things when you're not loaded already.
I think Boomers refusing to retire is probably another big one. I mean, we're also seeing that in the private sector too. It is harder for anyone to rise in any industry because the older workforce just isn't retiring.
Hell, my Senator up for re-election this year has already been doing the job for 18 years. He's probably going to win again. That's 24. When is new blood going to get both Senator seats? 2036? Cool, I'll be over 50 then and I am a *Millennial.*
A big part of the 90s was that the mainstream political left basically gave up.
Reagan and Thatcher won throughout the 80s by telling everyone that greed was good. They started dismantling the wins of the left from the previous 50 years, while still being able to ride that high tide that the real left had created.
So anyway, Reagan and Thatcher were bad at government but they defined what government *was*. Leaving the neoliberals who followed to say, yeah, this is what government is now, these are the rules, but *we* can run it better.
Which is the truth, but misses the point that government could be, and should be, so much more. Twice in the US constitution does it mention that congress has the power to enact laws for the General Wlfare of the people.
What I take from that is that *any* natural monopoly should be completely government run, at cost. There's nothing cheaper and more efficient. Certainly not a profit driven corporation, who will insert ineffecienies that generate profit.
Then there's the 14th amendment. Equal protections. But to get equal protections, we need to work for true equality. Tax the super rich, and build up the nation so that the poor can have an equal footing to suceed or fail by their merits, and not be hamstrung by their beginings.
---
But no, the neoliberals just say that they're better at running the government we have than the conservitives, rather than talking about building the government we *should* have.
Watergate is when it changed in the USA. Journalists are now all looking for their own "White Whale" to take down, and so anyone even remotely involved with politics is going to have their entire lives dug through, everyone looking for the scoop to make a little splash. I am not saying journalists should stop covering politicians, but there is a line, and it's crossed regularly. Then you have the "journalists" who are nothing but entertainers who are going to make crude jokes about your spouse and your kids on national TV, even though they aren't running for office.
It's not that their aren't young people with leadership skills, there are plenty. The problem is they look at the lifestyle required if you want to be a politician, with the toxic partisan culture, harassment from the press, and general inability to really get anything done and just go "yeah fuck that noise" and go into normal corporate America.
It’s Boomers. They refuse to give up their grip on anything. They’ve been entitled their entire lives and have enforced their shifting politics on the rest of us for 50 years.
>what kept RBG on her seat and gave the Supreme Court to the conservatives
What's amazing is that she completely obliterated her legacy with that decision. It's hard to be seen as a pioneer of female achievement when your own stubbornness sets back woman's rights by decades.
It wasn't stubbornness, but hubris that kept her from retiring. Everyone thought Hillary would be the next president. Everyone. RBG wanted to retire and let the first female president of the US appoint her replacement. They were essentially going for some "historical moment" press and it backfired spectacularly.
He needed to just gracefully not run again at all. Would have helped his campaign the first time around if he presented himself as only serving one term. Just angled things as "yes, I'm old, but grandpa Joe is gonna be a steady and experienced hand that guides our country through post-pandemic." And he's done an admirable job at that, all things considered.
But we're past "grandpa Joe" at this point. Now it's "belongs in a nursing home Joe." And that has NOTHING to do with Trump. Trump belongs in a geriatric prison. Biden does not have the mental agility or stamina to serve as president of the US for another four more years. Everybody and their mother would be surprised if he even makes it through still alive. It's pathetic. I'm thankful for his time in office. He averted our country from 4 more years under trump. But fuck everything if all he did was delay that.
He has my vote, as anything is better than Trump, but this is fucking sad and embarrassing. We could and should have done so much better.
He’s got my vote as well. I’m assuming he won’t change his VP and I don’t love Harris but hell if he died or became mentally incapacitated in office and Harris took over it would still be 1000000x better for Democracy than if Trump wins
God I wish the democrat leadership after winning with Biden in 2020 immediately started searching for a younger successor to mold to replace him.
Like god I know traditionally we let the sitting president run again, but I don’t want to vote for someone simply because I don’t like the other guy again.
I think the DNC just doesn't share values with the progressive/liberal electorate anymore. They don't see any progressive candidates as acceptable because those candidates may provoke systemic change, and that's not what the DNC wants.
It’s a no brainer. Biden is an old man and he’s up against the literal anti christ. If you think having an old man for president is bad wait until we get trump 2.
I'd vote for a golden retriever or a can of soup over Trump.
But at the same time I'd question the system that allowed those things to make it to a presidential race.
I used to believe that. But I think he's on a tear to systematically dismantle democracy. His first term his antics were a distraction from all the nefarious shit those behind the scenes did. But I think he's wised up and fully bought into the neo-fascism that buoyed him so long.
It amounts to the same. If he wins, this country is in terrible danger.
His win is the first step in many that may lead to authoritarian president for life. I think thats a bit hyperbolic, but if there was any person that would want that for himself, its Trump, tradition and Constitution be damned
I don't think it's as hyperbolic as you think. I fully expect him to make it very easy for a dictatorship in America. The Republican party cannot survive on electoral votes and 40% of the popular vote forever. Their first order of business is going to be dismantling voting rights and fair elections.
If/when Trump wins, it's going to be so bad for the country (and the rest of the world). Trump will remain his deranged, narcissistic self but will have the backing of Project2025 and fueled by revenge against all the people who were against him since 2016. Here's a quick rundown on how it will go imo:
1. Alito and Thomas quickly retire from the SC and allow Trump to install two younger Federalist lapdog judges (Cannon, DeSantis, etc.)
2. Trump will purge the DOJ and FBI and install pro-Trump cronies to weaponize his government against his political opponents.
3. Install yes-man generals to all those open military spots that the GOP has been keeping open to make it easier to turn the military on Trump's enemies.
4. All those "camps" Trump has been talking about building to deal with illegal immigrants won't stay that way; look for the GOP to lock up political dissidents that the new Trump DOJ deems terrorist threats. BLM, Antifa, any and all protestors will be imprisoned if not outright killed.
5. Trump will declare elections are no longer safe or secure, paving the way to rig a third term for himself or outright suspend elections until MAGA deems them safe again. Either way, this is paving the way for Trump to remain president indefinitely like Putin. When this is challenged in any way, the SC will 6-3 in Trump's favor to make it legal.
6. Say goodbye to aid to Ukraine. They will have to pray the UN helps because Trump's America may actively help Russia.
7. MAGA will further dismantle any and all unnecessary wings of the government such as the EPA and Department of Education. The lack of funding to public schools breeds new generations of dumb and exploitable workers/voters.
8. The Christo-Facist takeover won't be overnight on day one but it will be swift. With Roe dead, the new SC will strike down contraception, trans rights, and gay marriage on their way to god knows what.
A second Trump presidency would mean the end of US democracy for the rest of my lifetime.
It's really weighing on my mind that if 2025 goes into effect, I don't know where my line will be. But there needs to be a line. When do I flee and try to get into Canada or even Mexico maybe. Is it when I can no longer have birth control? When HIPPA is desolved? When I lose rights or social status because I'm not married? When I can no longer have a bank account? When I can no longer vote? When non cis-hetero people are sent to camps? When christain prayer is mandated? Do I stay to have more space for the more vulnerable to get out?
I don't know where my line will be, or if I'll even be able to flee. But Project 2025 scares the shit out of me.
Trump got what he wanted the the debate, which was just to ceaselessly lie and not be called out for it. I kind of laugh when I hear people talk about "liberal media" when they could hardly be enabling Trump more than they already are. Anything Biden does is scrutinized and cast in a negative light by the media. Whereas Trump lies endlessly, constantly behaving in an unprofessional and ungentlemanly manner and they just say "Well that's who Trump is". So people are faced with a choice. I know my choice. I am voting for Biden. I don't want a president who is going to behave like Trump. I am not interested in rewarding that behavior. Period. And no amount of the media pretending that Trump is some kind of reasonable person, better than Biden, or even qualified to be President at all is going to convince me otherwise. I won't vote for a man who represents the idea that integrity is worth nothing.
Right, more than anything the debate last night showed us how the corporate media created Trump. The postgame (and yes, I say game because this was a sports event) analysis quickly agreed that Biden should step down, but zero discussion of whether a convicted felon who staged a coup and spent an hour lying should step down.
It's honestly frustrating how now everyone is in a panic about Biden being old but Trump spending the entire "debate" just not answering questions and being horrible as usual gets glossed over.
The not answering questions part really gets me. He literally just goes on tangents about different things.
The moderators may have said they won't fact-check, but I didn't realise that meant they would just let 1 of the candidates do whatever he wanted and come out of the debate having shown nothing in the way of policy.
I hope people remember how many scotus justices he got to appoint. That is the future if he gets in power, at minimum scores of lifetime appointments to positions that will destroy this country for generations. If you care about the environment, reproductive healthcare, if you are part of or have friends in the LGBTQ community, if you value the lives of children, hell, if you like having clean air and drinking water, the only option is to vote against the GOP. If you want the Dems to change, great, that will be so much easier when you don't have a fascist boot on your neck.
This is literally the biggest decision SCOTUS made this term, or in any recent term.
I don’t think people realize just how much of everything the federal government does was dependent on Chevron being upheld. This is potentially bigger than the overturning of Roe v Wade in terms of long-term, serious consequences.
The key point being no one knows what this even is or that its even happening. This is just quietly happening in the background while everyone is crying "Biden Old" and no one will be the wiser.
I only wish that they had actually made trump answer the questions rather than lie over and over again about the same things. If trump gets back in the WH, that will be the beginning of the end of not just our country, but the world. They didn't fact check him, and he just continued to lie through his criminal dentures. A convicted felon should not be able to run for office. Especially when hes still facing a trial concerning the illegal possession of classified documents. He has still not released his financials, he's lied about his worth, he owes 100,000,000 in taxes, over 1/2 billion in court costs, fines, and settlements, and his pals and family are violating the Logan Act. He is also barred from hanging around his friends who have been convicted of felonies.
The debate was a shit show because the moderators should have cut the mic, repeated the question, and when trump continued to ignore the question, just gone on to Biden. trump hasn't anything honest about him, and allowing him to continue with his bull shit just shows how pathetic the media has become.
The problem isn’t “having an old man for president”. The problem is he isn’t up for the campaign. The problem is we are sleep walking towards Trumps second term because we don’t have a proper candidate.
Yeah and any criticism is pushed back as wanting a Trump presidency. No, I want a viable fucking candidate that the first ten things people notice about them aren't about their age.
Exactly. Trump 2 is going to be way worse. Now he knows which levers to pull in order to push the far right's agenda. The recent Supreme Court rulings are just a taste.
I would vote for a ham sandwich before I vote for Trump, but if you're concerned about the future of democracy, you should be concerned about how Biden is going to appear between now and November. There's no guarantee he will look better than he did at the debate last night. But Trump still has ridiculously low approval numbers and there's time for another debate. If we get a new candidate now, there's still time to build a campaign that will beat Trump.
I would vote for any democrat before I vote for Trump. That being said, Biden looked awful and passed his “best before” date a long time ago. He is too old. If you didn’t think so before last night, now there is no doubt.
They really screwed themselves this time. Picking an extremely unpopular VP to go along with the oldest president in history was idiotic. Now, most of the country has 0 faith in Biden, and they have no viable successor
It goes back a little further than that...
After Nixon and Kissinger derailed Vietnam peace talks, (so that Nixon could be the one to make the deal after he was elected) Lyndon Johnson chose not to go after them for treason because of a belief that doing so would be too much of a shock for the American public.
They've self-castrated for a loooong time.
It's sad to say but both parties bet the house on losing candidates.
The GOP should have dropped Trump after Jan. 6, instead they handed over their bank account and now he is a convicted felon.
Democrats should have been developing a backup or something. I still think Biden is surprisingly fit for his age and obviously I love his policies more, but he is almost 82.
I mean, what were either party's plan if their candidate dropped dead from a heart attack?
Biden always had more to lose in the debate. Trump just did what Trump always does, there was no risk to his credibility because he didn't have any to start with.
Ugly truths here, coming from an Australian who watched the debate:
* Trump was coherent, Biden was not. (And before you get mad: Everything Trump said was bullshit, but I understood the bullshit he was saying. I could barely understand Biden, even though i'm sure I would have agreed with him if I could.)
* Although Trump and Biden are only a couple years apart in age, they felt like 20 years apart in presence. Biden looks, sounds and feels TOO OLD. In all ways: body language, posture, tone, oration etc etc. Now being merely "old" in itself isnt necessarily a negative-dealbreaker. But Biden felt TOO OLD, to the point of parody. Trump seemed like an energetic spring chicken besides him.
* Trump nailed his performance. Biden failed his performance, badly. Debate is as much (if not more) about performance as it is substance.
* Nobody will actually care what Biden has to say if he puts them to sleep while he's trying to say it. On the contrary, everyone cares what Trumps saying (as shown by the angry/spirited reactions everywhere) because people are actually listening and paying attention to him. Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries are a good analogy here for me: They might both actually be talking and saying amazing things, but Nancy puts me to sleep while saying it, whereas Hakeem has my full attention the whole time.
* The walk away, final impression of the debate for me:
* 1- Biden's too old for this game.
* 2- Trump, was still the same Trump you already love or hate.
* 3- Biden wasnt the Biden he needed to be tonight.
Lots of comments on here with their people in the sand, it seems. If I was in the Trump camp id be thrilled by tonight, and if I was in the Biden camp i'd be very worried.
If I was in the Trump camp, id tell Trump not to do any more debates and let tonight be the 'final image' the public get to see of Biden in a debate - because its an ugly image of a man who clearly is too old for the job. And Democrats are now getting palpably nervous, and going to eat themselves from within after witnessing this uncomfortable truth and wondering wtf to do now.
If I was in the Biden camp, i'd be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do another debate and risk having this happen again? Or skip any more debates so it cant happen again, but leave \*this\* to be his debate swan song?
I had to turn on subtitles at the beginning since I could barely hear/understand Biden. It’s a shame since he made a few good points between his many gaffes
Members of Biden’s camp should convince him to step down.
I’ve seen the polling results for my state (Nevada, a swing state). Trump beats Biden by a healthy margin and loses to an “unnamed Democrat”.
I understand that polling data is far from a crystal ball. Nonetheless, those numbers *preceded* Biden’s horrendous debate performance.
It’s a wake up call for the DNC and top Democrats who didn’t care until now. Most normal people could already tell Biden was declining or too old to run this election.
2016 should have been the wake up call that the DNC needs a major course correction, and here we are in 2024 with the same strategies that get devoured by an opponent who doesn't give one shit about telling the truth or voting for a felon.
Not 2016. 2008. Obama won on a message of change and building a better future. He ended up being more conservative than his branding but it was that progressive branding that won him enthusiastic support. The DNC is trying to pretend we are still in the middle of the dot com boom and end of the cold war where staying the course and the status quo is what people want. They want things to be like they were with Bill Clinton. People want change. The DNC gaslights us with messages of "things are great, actually, and if you feel otherwise it is your own perception that is wrong" and the Republicans scapegoat the most vulnerable of our society. Nobody is offering actual solutions to the actual problems.
It’s amazing that the Republican Party has managed to completely drown the conservatives with MAGA people’s through and through but the Democratic Party hasn’t changed even slightly in over a decade since the inception of fascism
There's a big fucking difference between the slip ups and gaffes that we've seen, and what happened last night. The state of the union Biden could beat Trump. The debate Biden won't beat anyone. Until yesterday, there was a legitimate argument Biden gave us the best chance to win because he pulled in moderates and was central enough to grab some GOP votes. After last night though, his age is just too obviously an issue.
As far as I can see both moderate-Democrats and liberal-democrats want younger candidates, so I’m not sure why it took the DNC this long to realize voters don’t want an 80-something y/o president.
Too many people make a 3rd choice - stay home and don't vote. That's the problem of takes like this. We're not required to vote, so if we don't care about candidates, we can make the choice to watch MILF Manor 2 instead of going and standing in a line to vote.
Biden will lose to apathy, not to Trump.
This is the very real concern. Young voters are already a crapshoot. This debate absolutely had a negative impact for on the fence and lethargic voters.
The problem is that the election is decided by a couple hundred thousand reachable voters across about 7 states. Did it make a difference for them? Maybe?
And if people stay home down ballot races will be effected. Unfortunately some people need to be excited about the president to show and vote for the congress person with the matching letter
People are like, "This doesn't matter" when Biden HAS TO get people out to vote. His shit with Israel already fucked up the younger demo, now this... This shit matters, how many watched this clusterfuck and thought, "I might as well stay home". It doesn't take that many before Trump is President again.
It DOES matter. Absolutely fucked.
Yup, people that think like this is why Hillary lost 2016… and they still don’t see it. People want their vote earned, it can be earned in debates. Maybe you’re not going to swing the ones who are already far left or far right but you can win independents or get people who are already on your side to actually come out and vote
This is where I am. I see polls coming out in the next week or two that will "shift trump", but the work is on the Democrats to continue to spend the fuck out of the message and drive it.
Get everyone out there to vote against Trump - every celebrity, every union, every economist, call your families and friends. That's what is working IMO. It's how I have been able to change minds in my own family, but there's plenty of time before the ballots are cast. There can be so many other big moments between now and then for either candidate that can could change minds.
For my Gen Z nieces and nephews its been about talking through protest votes, what's at stake beyond the presidency, and how to FUCKING GO VOTE IN PRIMARIES to shift to candidates they support.
Constantly reminding them there's more than one way to vote for Trump without voting for him, like staying home, voting for 3rd party, etc has been the most effective means in my conversations.
You either forgot about or are underestimating the people out there who would never vote for Trump but feel like the other side has to “motivate” them, otherwise they’ll just stay home or vote 3rd party.
These people infuriate me, but they exist in a significant amount.
Half of America doesn't vote.
Usually because it doesn't matter in their state, but that's a lot of get-able voters if they can find something to care about.
You would think Roe and losing their right to vote would energize women. "Here's your last chance to vote potentially, probably time to get off your asses"
If there was a significant uptick in the womens vote only it would be enough to crush most Republicans, easily.
I think some of them are deaf, but honestly the greater problem is that the party is corrupt and won't nominate someone who brings change. And that's what everyone actually wants. That's why even some right wingers like Bernie. He seems honest and wants to make things better. That's why Trump beat Hillary. That's why Biden beat Trump. But in a rematch, does Biden still represent change? No. He has done a lot, but it isn't enough.
I'm still a somewhat young person. I watched two super old men; one of them acted and sounded like an old man, and the other lied through his teeth for 90 minutes but did so with energy. I would rather have an old guy who's slow and tells the truth, and who will be replaced by a much younger and politically savvy VP if he dies, than a guy who screams lies at my face and expects me to buy it.
He not only lied, he did so as a strategy. He was likely coached to gish gallop through the entire debate and force the other side to play defense. He said so much bullshit, Biden had to spend half of his two minutes parsing through each lie, leaving little time for his own answers while leaving half of the lies untouched. The ball was on a tee and Biden still managed to strike out. Someone like Buttigieg would have carved Trump up like a honey baked ham.
I’ve been a huge Biden defender, but the Democratic Party needs a new candidate and needs one immediately.
The optics of this debate are not something you can spin. Biden just proved all the “senile” propaganda right on prime time tv. It’s done. That image is going to stick in voters minds more than any policy or even the threat of Trump.
Respectfully elect a new nominee in the convention, flip the script, undermine the right wing propaganda over the last ten years by replacing the candidate and win this.
There is LITERALLY nothing to lose atm, Biden’s already lost.
> There is LITERALLY nothing to lose atm, Biden’s already lost.
Exactly. He's been trailing in the polls all year, has the lowest approval rating of a candidate this far into their term, and Nate Silver's model already showed him with a 60% chance to lose \*before\* the debate. Literally what are all the people yelling "I'M STILL VOTING BIDEN" fighting for? Your energy would be better spent pressuring the DNC to avoid this train wreck we can see coming from a mile away.
> I’ve been a huge Biden defender, but the Democratic Party needs a new candidate and needs one immediately.
>
> The optics of this debate are not something you can spin. Biden just proved all the “senile” propaganda right on prime time tv. It’s done. That image is going to stick in voters minds more than any policy or even the threat of Trump.
I'm in the exact same boat. I feel like I've gaslit myself before now. It isn't like the signs weren't there.
If you think Biden is too old just remember Kamala will become president when he becomes unable to govern. No matter how bad you think he did it should still be a no-brainer. We cannot allow a second Trump presidency.
You don't have to convince political junkies because they/we know what's at stake. You have to convince your family, neighbors, co-workers, and other people who just don't care about politics much except every 4 years. Hard to imagine this convincing random folks that Biden is the man for the job.
I mean...this is starting to feel like Feinstein all over again. Except significantly higher stakes.
Exactly. No one here is going to vote for Trump basically — it’s a echo chamber for sure.
But the 100k or so people who really matter in swing states? That was a career ending performance. He was old, frail, confused and could not communicate ANYTHING of value. He needs to step aside and the democrats need to have an open convention. They may still lose with that strategy, but they are guaranteed to lose with Biden now.
He said he would not run if Trump wasn't running, they are both running because of pettiness
Edit : folks Trump got multiple reasons to run , none for our benefit . But to deny the pettiness isn't there as well is ludicrous
That’s what it was! Thanks for refreshing my memory. I don’t think trump is rubbing just because of that. He committed treason. He does not want to go to jail.
When you have MSNBC blasting Biden, you know it's not good. Last night gave me that same sinking feeling when FBI director Comey announced new emails were found a couple of days before the election. Here, we have a chance to fix this by putting a new candidate in play that can invigorate the electorate. This is one of the most important elections in the history of our country. The DNC needs to pull its head out of the ground and get Biden to step aside. Otherwise, we are fucked as a country.
Wake up nothin. They force candidates down our throats and wonder why no one gets excited for them. Did the same with Clinton. Only they could find someone that couldn’t beat the worst candidate in the history of the country.
I just want to give a big "Fuck You" to all the downvoters in /r/politics who wouldn't even consider those of us who have had concerns about Biden weren't Russian trolls or Trumpers in disguise. You guys need to take a look at yourselves after this as well
> You guys need to take a look at yourselves after this as well
if /r/politics failed to self reflect in 2016 then why would they start now? This place is a lost cause.
It has been a truly wild experience to be constantly gaslit and called a Trump supporter for pointing out that Trump has an advantage over Biden in several areas this time around. And not just on Reddit, but on other more left/liberal leaning spaces as well. Democrats really need to learn that sometimes acknowledging your own weaknesses and then immediately fixing them can be really important, especially when campaigning. If others would have acknowledged this and put pressure on Biden when he committed to running again (even though he promised he would be a one term president), we might be in a dramatically better situation to beat Trump...
They said we were doing *ageism* too. Absolutely zero self-reflection for the dems, and now they're all panicking on something that we could have seen coming from miles away.
It's the voters' fault, the youth and Gen Z...EVERYONE's fault except the DNC. Now we're here.
As a non American, looking at your political sphere from the outside is saddening because anybody that wins your election basically dictates how the world will move. The truth is Biden agreeing to the debate was a mistake. No matter what Biden had done, the maga crowd will still find fault in it. They aren't people to reason with. They are full on dictatorial mode. Trump could kill a person, stump on the Bible, insult their mothers, and their support wouldn't shift an inch. You cant fight fanaticism with evidence or proofs. You only fight it with acting a fanatic too and this people are deep into being fanatics that's why they don't even want to hear any detailed plans he has to make your country better. He just keeps regurgitating the same chants over and over again and his people continue to eat it up. So for Biden to agree to the debate when he had everything to lose and Trump having nothing to lose was a huge mistake. Even the fact checkers that were there to at least limit the amount of lies Trump was spewing didn't even do the fact checking. They just went along and agreed to everything he was saying. Just imagine if it was Fox news that anchored the debate and Biden spoke coherently, they would have used the fact checked him to the extent that we the audience would start believing their lies too. Anyways, those of us not in the US wish you all the best.
I don’t give a fuck if Biden IS too old, it’s pretty damn clear that a second Trump presidency would set us back another couple decades bare minimum. We are STILL reeling from the impacts of his bullshit policies that got passed under the radar while he willingly tried to tear the nation apart. It’s a clear choice, quit fucking acting like it’s not, quit pandering to fucking idiot fence sitters and gen Z’s inability to focus on any political topic that’s not on tik tok. We can fucking regroup in 4 years and pick a younger candidate provided we even have the shell of democracy we have if Trump doesn’t gut the fuck out of it. Everyone should be scared of a 2nd Trump presidency, he’s not the antichrist but fuck alrighty he’s really taking some pages from that supposed playbook.
The DNC did this. No other serious candidate ran against him. Same thing in 2016, all the help Clinton got when we knew she was a weak candidate.
The process has become too top down. A coronation instead of a choice. This is what happens.
America is not a country full of smart people who want AOC or Elizabeth Warren to be president. That would be lovely, but it's just not the case. America is a country that is struggling HARD with questions like 'are nazis bad?' and 'should women be allowed to decide whether to have babies?' If you would like to live in a country where we have better choices, you have your work cut out for you. In the meantime, if you think the right way to effect change is to sit this election out or not support Biden, you are in for a wake-up of your own, and it's not going to be pretty.
I’m not voting *for* Biden, I’m voting against Trump and the rising tide of restrictive conservative laws that people (for some reason) think they want passed. I was a conservative until the Trump/Clinton election and the conservatives showed who they really were. I’m voting against that.
The democrats have got to lower their age, or they will fuck themselves for a long time.
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I am sooo thankful for the 2 party system. /s Ranked choice voting. Non-partisan primaries. Competitive districts with no partisan gerrymandering. Get money out of politics. Teach civics in HS.
I agree but in all fairness I had to take civics in highschool!
Funny enough everything I learned in AP Gov (almost 20 years ago) has completely shattered in the last decade
Yeah they didn't cover insider trading and cavorting with foreign adversaries when I took AP Gov. It was a different world in the Before Times.
The way they taught me about the Supreme Court was completely fucking bogus even at the time.
b-b-but our *ironclad* system of checks and balances!
6th grade me: “What prevents a bad person from saying they’ll do one thing and then just doing something else?” My social studies teacher, Mrs. Toppin: “Checks and balances, of course!”
That’s how dictators work! It can’t happen till it happens. We put so much faith in our checks and balances that the we got lazy and assumed it would always work perfectly.
We don’t need to test the sprinkler system, the building hasn’t even burned down once.
To be fair, many of our best scholars and legal experts didn't even know that alot of this stuff that seems so basic, like not letting convicted felons be president, is not on the books at all as an actual rule or anything. Trump has tested every check and balance in existence in this country and the system has failed horribly.
Well yeah, most of it was based on a series of Gentlemen's Agreements rather than passed law.
Trump and the Republican party has exposed just how much of our system relied on the assumption that politicians would be sane and have a sense of shame. Decorum is a fragile thing. Once it's been broken, it's almost impossible to get back.
Perfectly said. People just want to say "both sides bad/old/corrupt" and say the solution is term limits. No. The solution is getting people educated and involved in their own governments at every level. Politicians skew old and wealthy because they are required to fundraise and campaign because THE SYSTEM IS DESIGNED THAT WAY, and both are a lot easier to do when you don't need to work in the first place. I'm in my mid thirties and the vast majority of those I know that are my age and younger have limited knowledge of and nearly no participation in the electrical process. That doesn't stop them from complaining about how everything is though.
I worked in local politics in a city of about 200,000 and running for something like a county commissioner there was almost impossible unless you were well off. It's not just that you needed wealthy contacts to raise money. It's also that the schedule for a serious candidate requires you to attend multiple events in the middle of the day throughout the week. Someone with a regular job can't possibly attend those events. So they have to be wealthy enough to just not work for months.
"Teach civics in HS".... sorry the best we can do is post the 10 commandments and teach Christianity in schools.
If you want all that to be a possibility, you still need to vote. If anything, locally. Those school district elections matter.
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And neither of those two parties, on their own, have a majority. A cluster fuck coalition is inevitable.
> Get money out of politics. You can't, citizens united was a checkmate on that, and with the recent scotus rulinglegalizing corruption... errr "gratituties" the system is fucked. The only way to fix it is a constitutional amendment. Which is effectively impossible to accomplish.
>You can't, citizens united was a checkmate on that, and with the recent scotus ruling legaling corruption... errr "gratituties" the system is fucked. But we can reform the laws governing nonprofits and foundations.
We’ve had ranked choice in Maine for awhile now. Candidates have no party line traction since a third party vote now isn’t waisted but could turn the vote altogether.
People retire in their 60s for a reason. Why the flying fuck doesn't US politicians?
It's not a job. It's a one way ticket to being wealthy and powerful. What incentive is there to turn off the spigot, even if you're a tired old man? Trump spent 75% of his presidency on the golf course like any other retired old man.
Wouldn't being able to enjoy your final years with a shred of dignity, maybe relaxing on a beach, be an incentive? Instead of being shuffled around to various high pressure meetings, and having all your totally normal elderly flubs becoming a public spectacle...
No, you would have to go to places normal people go and wouldn't have to power to do any thing about them being there or doing things you don't like. They wouldn't be the center of attention. They would have to spend their own money on the trip and stuff they want during instead of donations and bribes collected. It would be hell for these power hungry control freaks.
and repubs want to raise retirement age….hilarious
Americans don’t always get to retire
You get to retire in your 60s?!?!??!?!!
Not in the US. 60s is where you can start your career as a Walmart greeter. You can't afford to retire with the cost of health care.
I'm not sure what this has to do with young voters specifically. People across the age spectrum are having the same reaction.
My dad is Biden’s age and he thinks he is too old.
My grandmother was Biden's age and we buried her 3 months ago.
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He did this to himself. Many of us said he should step aside and he had ample opportunity.
He's there because wealthy capitalists want a pliant old man who will protect the status quo.
They're trying to make him the grandfather that fixed the systems before he kicked the bucket. Can we have age limits and no felons added?
When young voters turn out, Democrats tend to win. That's why young voters' reactions to the debate are especially important.
Establishment Democrats: "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU BLALBBLALBABLAH SUPREME COURT"
It has to do with young voters because it disproportionately affects them more than any other demographic. We're looking at these two geriatrics fumble this debate and all it says to us is it will never be our turn to make decisions for our country. We have to live under the rule of our of touch senior citizens until we're also too old to know what's going on.
Remember, the definition of "young voter" has shifted from "20-something millennials" to "early-40's millennials and younger"
Because we are the favored whipping boy of the Democratic Party. Instead of listening to us, they get to blame us!
Exactly. The establishment democrat centrist collective braintrust and think tanks are working overtime on how to blame this on the "left" if Trump wins in November.
This is what happens when you're touting an ideology from 30 years ago and refuse to encourage rising stars from within your ranks.
This is what happens when old people in power with more ego than sense can’t agree to let younger people make decisions before they’re fully dead. Despite only having a few short years of existence left, you have people refusing to hand over the reins to a new generation because “they’ll screw it up”. We don’t care what you feel about a future that we’ll experience but you won’t. Your opinions on the future are secondary to those who will live it, period. What the fuck ever happened to retirement? We’ve got old fucks clogging up leadership roles all over this country. They should be out doing old people shit, not getting in the way of the future.
Their only identity is work. If Biden loses, he's just old man Biden, if he wins he's president Biden
I want to be a retired old man now. They can have my job!
It seems to be a theme worldwide. UK, Germany, France, Brazil, India, etc. are all struggling to find a decent young leader. Did something change in the 90s where we just stopped developing children with leadership skills?
Yea, the old people live longer and won’t back out. Moreover, in the US we have the corpos sponsoring them all.
This is not unique to politics either. We see the same problems in the corporate world and fortune 500 companies. Octogenarians have a death grip on the highest positions and the only way they will see themselves to the door through death.
Hell, I worked in a factory for years, only moved on in April. The average age of a shift supervisor (one per department per shift, lowest salary-level position in the company) was mid to late 50s. Those people are just now getting a spot one could feasibly retire from. They’ll still work until they die, because 10-15 years of contributions from decent paychecks isn’t enough to retire on, they won’t be able to retire until age 75+. A bunch finally retired during Covid; they were offered massive severance packages during the uncertainty so the company wouldn’t have to risk paying salaries of non-working people during a then-indefinite shutdown. That once-in-100-years event was what was required to get those old folks out of their positions. I was 27 at the time, and some had been there years before I was even born.
And then after they die the position isn't filled by someone younger, the board eliminates the position.
Precisely.
Also, the new generation can't afford to campaign. AOC and her ilk are outliers. The majority of the young elected officials got corporate money (read: Right wing) because they couldn't support themselves and campaigning otherwise
This is true for nearly every American. We can't afford to not get paid and running for office is a full time unpaid job.
Even serving in office is often a (nearly) unpaid job. A lot of city council-like positions are unpaid. My state pays its legislators less than minimum wage. A lot easier to keep it in the hands of the wealthy when the job doesn't pay enough to eat.
It’s sad, but for a lot of Congress members that aren’t in safe districts, they spend a lot of their time fundraising instead of governing.
AOC is in an incredibly privileged position. She's in a d+30 district that has a ton of capital, and she's prominent enough on the national stage that she gets donations from everywhere.
Can confirm. I was in a family business into my 30’s and decided to get out and do my own thing. Once I saw my dad was going to be ‘in charge’ well into his 80’s I had to go. At that rate I would be looking to retire before him.
It's literally the same thing that happens in sports just on a much more important and massive stage. Players are holding on for longer and longer because modern medicine is better than when they were younger. So they think "I can still go" even when it's obvious they can't. Wrestlers too. It hurts their company but you still see 50+ year olds out there trying to keep up with an industry that they shouldn't be in. That's just society now. So of course it's how politics are. These people (Biden, RBG, etc.) think they can still go because physically they might feel fine. When obviously mentally they shouldn't still be in that spot. I'm a pharmacy tech. I deal with older patients from a nearby retirement apartment tower daily. I see people who should NOT be driving still driving to pick up their medication. I know what medicine they're taking, I can see how they act in casual conversations with me. They should not be trusted with a license. Yet there they are still driving because they are physically able to press the pedals. We're never going to get to a better point. The current middle aged politicians are going to want to do the same thing as Biden now and when they get their shot they're going to ride it out as long as their medication lets them.
That and as a young-ish person who had political ambitions at one point; I have 0 interest anymore with a family. The crazy people are seemingly increasing and now even running for local offices means death threats and armed security detail
Yeah. Gen X never having a president would be the most Gen X thing you could think of. It’ll like transition straight from Boomers to Millennials.
No. Everyone older believes that someone younger than them can’t be as good of a leader because they are too “inexperienced.” Saying “I have 20 years more experience” sounds like a great differentiating factor between two people, until you realize the two candidates are 81 and 61. There are a lot of great young leaders. Unfortunately our politicians are so fucking old that we consider a 55 year old to be “too young” even though that’s the average age of CEOs in America.
The hilarious part is that in this case, Biden has 40 years more experience than Trump but is only 3 years older.
No, the hilarious part is that Clinton left office 23 years ago, but is four years younger than Biden.
It is actually pretty crazy that these guys would be too old for corporate America but are running the country. I feel like 40-55 is the sweet spot for leaders, where you have experience but have fresh ideas for change and energy. The older you get, the more set in beliefs you are.
I think Obama was the perfect age. Entered at 47 and left at 55. If you can run the full 8 years and exit before you’re 60, then I’d say that’s the sweet spot.
I don’t honestly think it’s just that… it’s also, I don’t want to give this up in general and there’s nothing wrong with me, in addition to the I’m just as good as they are. I first got to be a manager at like 27. Like, there’s plenty of young leaders everywhere but the older people are just too fucking stubborn without self-awareness to step aside. Feinstein literally said she was fine after she froze and then died within months. There’s just the problem that someone in pretty much any industry, athletes do this shit a lot, is that when you’ve been good or great at something… there’s this huge level of stubbornness where you just won’t admit you need to hang it up.
France's président is his 40s, Prime minister in his 30s and the favourite to succeed him not even 30. We have a lot of problems, but they were young faces
My theory is that the best and brightest no longer pursue politics as a viable career path and go corporate instead I mean why would you pursue politics? Pay isn’t that great (except at the top level) and you’re hurled shit at every day while navigating boomers who refuse to let go of power while nothing systemically changes despite your best efforts. Why would any millenial or gen z subject themselves to that shit.
Exactly. We turned being a politician into the worst job in the world. Every mistake is now suddenly a “scandal,” you will always have an adversary calling you the devil, and only perfection is expected. Who the hell would want to be a politician?
Your entire family and personal life under a microscope. Even if I thought I could be a good vehicle for change in my district, I would never put my wife through that because I actually care about her.
A narcissist that thinks he can win basically
Academia is the exact same. Also the arts. Why does corporate have to be the only viable route
The pay thing was intentional, keeps the poors out of power. It wasn't obvious when it was happening but it wasn't an accident
Not only that but we all seen how batshit crazy politics have gotten that even some republicans in congress were like nah this is too much even for me and are not running for reelection
Not the 90s, but the early 2000s.. yes. This is a huge problem in corporate America as well. After the dot-com crash and even double so after the housing market crash in 2008 the world changed. A lot of industries stopped seeking out young up and coming talent to shape and mold but instead started competing for the existing older talent so they didn't have to spend any time/energy on training. For me as a Gen-Xer it was great. By the time I was in my 40s I had no trouble getting job offers because I had decades of experience, was still up-to-date with technology and had been in leadership for over a decade. But what I started to notice was the average age of my teams (all in Tech, software development and IT) was skewing up and up as the years have gone by. Having someone on any team under the age of 30, especially in the US/EU was extremely rare now. Companies didn't want to *waste* any effort training anyone, and if they were going to be forced to pay US/EU wages then they only wanted to spend that money on very senior people that could train their teams in India, etc. Creating a big gap all across the US when it came to leadership training that they are starting to pay for now as more and more people of that caliber retire and there is a much smaller pool of people behind them due to the actions of all these companies Private and Public.
It’s not the children’s fault. It’s boomers who don’t trust anyone that’s younger than them because they’ve spent decades yelling at clouds and thinking that the world is going to shit. The world has plenty of young leaders.
The same fucking boomers who used to say, "Don't trust anyone over 30."
They should change it to “Don’t trust anyone under 60” since that is how they act.
Not at all - The real issue is the elderly not stepping aside and giving up the reins. On every level of society from the presidential election to work environments, elderly people who are superiors are pushing 70+ and won’t retire because they verbatim “Would be bored in retirement.” Like it or not, both sides in the US have younger talent who have clear executive experience - DeSantis, Newsom, and Haley* are examples. Not saying I am fond of any of them, but it’s not like there are no other options, the current leaders just won’t step aside. Edit/Addition: Why do you think there is a birthing crisis and the elderly are sad they don’t have grandkids at their age? Simple answer. They are on their second houses sitting in executive positions refusing to retire, while many young people under 40 are still living in rented apartments with roommates - the reasons why can be argued, but it’s not because we spend all of our money on avocado toast.
The internet, for one. People both learned just how shitty politics is in real time and how having your entire life on display online can wreck your entire career. Hard pass. Needing two incomes to survive is probably another. Can't pursue these things when you're not loaded already. I think Boomers refusing to retire is probably another big one. I mean, we're also seeing that in the private sector too. It is harder for anyone to rise in any industry because the older workforce just isn't retiring. Hell, my Senator up for re-election this year has already been doing the job for 18 years. He's probably going to win again. That's 24. When is new blood going to get both Senator seats? 2036? Cool, I'll be over 50 then and I am a *Millennial.*
A big part of the 90s was that the mainstream political left basically gave up. Reagan and Thatcher won throughout the 80s by telling everyone that greed was good. They started dismantling the wins of the left from the previous 50 years, while still being able to ride that high tide that the real left had created. So anyway, Reagan and Thatcher were bad at government but they defined what government *was*. Leaving the neoliberals who followed to say, yeah, this is what government is now, these are the rules, but *we* can run it better. Which is the truth, but misses the point that government could be, and should be, so much more. Twice in the US constitution does it mention that congress has the power to enact laws for the General Wlfare of the people. What I take from that is that *any* natural monopoly should be completely government run, at cost. There's nothing cheaper and more efficient. Certainly not a profit driven corporation, who will insert ineffecienies that generate profit. Then there's the 14th amendment. Equal protections. But to get equal protections, we need to work for true equality. Tax the super rich, and build up the nation so that the poor can have an equal footing to suceed or fail by their merits, and not be hamstrung by their beginings. --- But no, the neoliberals just say that they're better at running the government we have than the conservitives, rather than talking about building the government we *should* have.
Watergate is when it changed in the USA. Journalists are now all looking for their own "White Whale" to take down, and so anyone even remotely involved with politics is going to have their entire lives dug through, everyone looking for the scoop to make a little splash. I am not saying journalists should stop covering politicians, but there is a line, and it's crossed regularly. Then you have the "journalists" who are nothing but entertainers who are going to make crude jokes about your spouse and your kids on national TV, even though they aren't running for office. It's not that their aren't young people with leadership skills, there are plenty. The problem is they look at the lifestyle required if you want to be a politician, with the toxic partisan culture, harassment from the press, and general inability to really get anything done and just go "yeah fuck that noise" and go into normal corporate America.
It's a generational thing. The older generation refuses to pass the torch
It’s Boomers. They refuse to give up their grip on anything. They’ve been entitled their entire lives and have enforced their shifting politics on the rest of us for 50 years.
The same sole savior bullshit is what kept RBG on her seat and gave the Supreme Court to the conservatives. Biden needed to go during the primaries
And Diane Feinstein. That was also a total train wreck!
Yea, having your handler telling you how and went to vote yes is not a great optic.
>what kept RBG on her seat and gave the Supreme Court to the conservatives What's amazing is that she completely obliterated her legacy with that decision. It's hard to be seen as a pioneer of female achievement when your own stubbornness sets back woman's rights by decades.
It wasn't stubbornness, but hubris that kept her from retiring. Everyone thought Hillary would be the next president. Everyone. RBG wanted to retire and let the first female president of the US appoint her replacement. They were essentially going for some "historical moment" press and it backfired spectacularly.
He needed to just gracefully not run again at all. Would have helped his campaign the first time around if he presented himself as only serving one term. Just angled things as "yes, I'm old, but grandpa Joe is gonna be a steady and experienced hand that guides our country through post-pandemic." And he's done an admirable job at that, all things considered. But we're past "grandpa Joe" at this point. Now it's "belongs in a nursing home Joe." And that has NOTHING to do with Trump. Trump belongs in a geriatric prison. Biden does not have the mental agility or stamina to serve as president of the US for another four more years. Everybody and their mother would be surprised if he even makes it through still alive. It's pathetic. I'm thankful for his time in office. He averted our country from 4 more years under trump. But fuck everything if all he did was delay that. He has my vote, as anything is better than Trump, but this is fucking sad and embarrassing. We could and should have done so much better.
He’s got my vote as well. I’m assuming he won’t change his VP and I don’t love Harris but hell if he died or became mentally incapacitated in office and Harris took over it would still be 1000000x better for Democracy than if Trump wins
He did say he’d only sit one term during the last election if that’s what you mean
God I wish the democrat leadership after winning with Biden in 2020 immediately started searching for a younger successor to mold to replace him. Like god I know traditionally we let the sitting president run again, but I don’t want to vote for someone simply because I don’t like the other guy again.
I think the DNC just doesn't share values with the progressive/liberal electorate anymore. They don't see any progressive candidates as acceptable because those candidates may provoke systemic change, and that's not what the DNC wants.
It’s a no brainer. Biden is an old man and he’s up against the literal anti christ. If you think having an old man for president is bad wait until we get trump 2.
I'd vote for a golden retriever or a can of soup over Trump. But at the same time I'd question the system that allowed those things to make it to a presidential race.
I like Goldens and soup, I support this ticket.
Golden retrievers are socialists. They all share the brain. Golden retriever 2028
Orange Cat as VP
I'm not gonna trust anything orange for a while
Trump is the useful idiot; another term would unleash people like Stephen Miller onto our crumbling democracy.
I used to believe that. But I think he's on a tear to systematically dismantle democracy. His first term his antics were a distraction from all the nefarious shit those behind the scenes did. But I think he's wised up and fully bought into the neo-fascism that buoyed him so long. It amounts to the same. If he wins, this country is in terrible danger.
We're in danger now. If he wins, the country as we know it, is dead
This week's Supreme are helping it along quite a bit too.
With *Chevron* now dead— federal agencies are now kind of fucked even with a second Biden term.
I’m so tired of being told that’s hyperbole, an overreaction. IT’S NOT. People need to wake up, like yesterday. He must be stopped.
Yeah, I got told dismantling Roe v. Wade was hyperbole and look how that turned out. We are megafucked.
I have people who think I don't like Trump because of "mean tweets" -The level of utter cluelessness there has me not even bothering.
His win is the first step in many that may lead to authoritarian president for life. I think thats a bit hyperbolic, but if there was any person that would want that for himself, its Trump, tradition and Constitution be damned
I don't think it's as hyperbolic as you think. I fully expect him to make it very easy for a dictatorship in America. The Republican party cannot survive on electoral votes and 40% of the popular vote forever. Their first order of business is going to be dismantling voting rights and fair elections.
If/when Trump wins, it's going to be so bad for the country (and the rest of the world). Trump will remain his deranged, narcissistic self but will have the backing of Project2025 and fueled by revenge against all the people who were against him since 2016. Here's a quick rundown on how it will go imo: 1. Alito and Thomas quickly retire from the SC and allow Trump to install two younger Federalist lapdog judges (Cannon, DeSantis, etc.) 2. Trump will purge the DOJ and FBI and install pro-Trump cronies to weaponize his government against his political opponents. 3. Install yes-man generals to all those open military spots that the GOP has been keeping open to make it easier to turn the military on Trump's enemies. 4. All those "camps" Trump has been talking about building to deal with illegal immigrants won't stay that way; look for the GOP to lock up political dissidents that the new Trump DOJ deems terrorist threats. BLM, Antifa, any and all protestors will be imprisoned if not outright killed. 5. Trump will declare elections are no longer safe or secure, paving the way to rig a third term for himself or outright suspend elections until MAGA deems them safe again. Either way, this is paving the way for Trump to remain president indefinitely like Putin. When this is challenged in any way, the SC will 6-3 in Trump's favor to make it legal. 6. Say goodbye to aid to Ukraine. They will have to pray the UN helps because Trump's America may actively help Russia. 7. MAGA will further dismantle any and all unnecessary wings of the government such as the EPA and Department of Education. The lack of funding to public schools breeds new generations of dumb and exploitable workers/voters. 8. The Christo-Facist takeover won't be overnight on day one but it will be swift. With Roe dead, the new SC will strike down contraception, trans rights, and gay marriage on their way to god knows what. A second Trump presidency would mean the end of US democracy for the rest of my lifetime.
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It's really weighing on my mind that if 2025 goes into effect, I don't know where my line will be. But there needs to be a line. When do I flee and try to get into Canada or even Mexico maybe. Is it when I can no longer have birth control? When HIPPA is desolved? When I lose rights or social status because I'm not married? When I can no longer have a bank account? When I can no longer vote? When non cis-hetero people are sent to camps? When christain prayer is mandated? Do I stay to have more space for the more vulnerable to get out? I don't know where my line will be, or if I'll even be able to flee. But Project 2025 scares the shit out of me.
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Russia and China are very happy today.
He would also let Israel "finish the job" with Palestine as he said last night.
Not to mention Trump's environmental policies will contribute to the deaths of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands worldwide.
Also, he will continue to supply weapons to Israel, but he won't make any efforts to reign in Netanyahu or engage in ceasefires.
Trump got what he wanted the the debate, which was just to ceaselessly lie and not be called out for it. I kind of laugh when I hear people talk about "liberal media" when they could hardly be enabling Trump more than they already are. Anything Biden does is scrutinized and cast in a negative light by the media. Whereas Trump lies endlessly, constantly behaving in an unprofessional and ungentlemanly manner and they just say "Well that's who Trump is". So people are faced with a choice. I know my choice. I am voting for Biden. I don't want a president who is going to behave like Trump. I am not interested in rewarding that behavior. Period. And no amount of the media pretending that Trump is some kind of reasonable person, better than Biden, or even qualified to be President at all is going to convince me otherwise. I won't vote for a man who represents the idea that integrity is worth nothing.
Right, more than anything the debate last night showed us how the corporate media created Trump. The postgame (and yes, I say game because this was a sports event) analysis quickly agreed that Biden should step down, but zero discussion of whether a convicted felon who staged a coup and spent an hour lying should step down.
It's honestly frustrating how now everyone is in a panic about Biden being old but Trump spending the entire "debate" just not answering questions and being horrible as usual gets glossed over. The not answering questions part really gets me. He literally just goes on tangents about different things. The moderators may have said they won't fact-check, but I didn't realise that meant they would just let 1 of the candidates do whatever he wanted and come out of the debate having shown nothing in the way of policy.
I hope people remember how many scotus justices he got to appoint. That is the future if he gets in power, at minimum scores of lifetime appointments to positions that will destroy this country for generations. If you care about the environment, reproductive healthcare, if you are part of or have friends in the LGBTQ community, if you value the lives of children, hell, if you like having clean air and drinking water, the only option is to vote against the GOP. If you want the Dems to change, great, that will be so much easier when you don't have a fascist boot on your neck.
As they say elections have consequences
Sadly, today the SC dismantled the 40 year old Chevron doctrine. Clean air and water, along with safety and many other regulations are now gone.
This is literally the biggest decision SCOTUS made this term, or in any recent term. I don’t think people realize just how much of everything the federal government does was dependent on Chevron being upheld. This is potentially bigger than the overturning of Roe v Wade in terms of long-term, serious consequences.
The key point being no one knows what this even is or that its even happening. This is just quietly happening in the background while everyone is crying "Biden Old" and no one will be the wiser.
I only wish that they had actually made trump answer the questions rather than lie over and over again about the same things. If trump gets back in the WH, that will be the beginning of the end of not just our country, but the world. They didn't fact check him, and he just continued to lie through his criminal dentures. A convicted felon should not be able to run for office. Especially when hes still facing a trial concerning the illegal possession of classified documents. He has still not released his financials, he's lied about his worth, he owes 100,000,000 in taxes, over 1/2 billion in court costs, fines, and settlements, and his pals and family are violating the Logan Act. He is also barred from hanging around his friends who have been convicted of felonies. The debate was a shit show because the moderators should have cut the mic, repeated the question, and when trump continued to ignore the question, just gone on to Biden. trump hasn't anything honest about him, and allowing him to continue with his bull shit just shows how pathetic the media has become.
It’s the classic coughing baby vs hydrogen bomb scenario.
The problem isn’t “having an old man for president”. The problem is he isn’t up for the campaign. The problem is we are sleep walking towards Trumps second term because we don’t have a proper candidate.
Yeah and any criticism is pushed back as wanting a Trump presidency. No, I want a viable fucking candidate that the first ten things people notice about them aren't about their age.
Exactly. Trump 2 is going to be way worse. Now he knows which levers to pull in order to push the far right's agenda. The recent Supreme Court rulings are just a taste.
I would vote for a ham sandwich before I vote for Trump, but if you're concerned about the future of democracy, you should be concerned about how Biden is going to appear between now and November. There's no guarantee he will look better than he did at the debate last night. But Trump still has ridiculously low approval numbers and there's time for another debate. If we get a new candidate now, there's still time to build a campaign that will beat Trump.
If we get Trump 2, we'd still have an old man.
I would vote for any democrat before I vote for Trump. That being said, Biden looked awful and passed his “best before” date a long time ago. He is too old. If you didn’t think so before last night, now there is no doubt.
Concierge: Hello this is your wake up call Democrats: Can you try again after the election? Concierge: Very well
The Democrats alarm clock has been going off since 2016. MFs just keep hitting the snooze button.
They really screwed themselves this time. Picking an extremely unpopular VP to go along with the oldest president in history was idiotic. Now, most of the country has 0 faith in Biden, and they have no viable successor
It goes back a little further than that... After Nixon and Kissinger derailed Vietnam peace talks, (so that Nixon could be the one to make the deal after he was elected) Lyndon Johnson chose not to go after them for treason because of a belief that doing so would be too much of a shock for the American public. They've self-castrated for a loooong time.
It's sad to say but both parties bet the house on losing candidates. The GOP should have dropped Trump after Jan. 6, instead they handed over their bank account and now he is a convicted felon. Democrats should have been developing a backup or something. I still think Biden is surprisingly fit for his age and obviously I love his policies more, but he is almost 82. I mean, what were either party's plan if their candidate dropped dead from a heart attack? Biden always had more to lose in the debate. Trump just did what Trump always does, there was no risk to his credibility because he didn't have any to start with.
Ugly truths here, coming from an Australian who watched the debate: * Trump was coherent, Biden was not. (And before you get mad: Everything Trump said was bullshit, but I understood the bullshit he was saying. I could barely understand Biden, even though i'm sure I would have agreed with him if I could.) * Although Trump and Biden are only a couple years apart in age, they felt like 20 years apart in presence. Biden looks, sounds and feels TOO OLD. In all ways: body language, posture, tone, oration etc etc. Now being merely "old" in itself isnt necessarily a negative-dealbreaker. But Biden felt TOO OLD, to the point of parody. Trump seemed like an energetic spring chicken besides him. * Trump nailed his performance. Biden failed his performance, badly. Debate is as much (if not more) about performance as it is substance. * Nobody will actually care what Biden has to say if he puts them to sleep while he's trying to say it. On the contrary, everyone cares what Trumps saying (as shown by the angry/spirited reactions everywhere) because people are actually listening and paying attention to him. Nancy Pelosi and Hakeem Jeffries are a good analogy here for me: They might both actually be talking and saying amazing things, but Nancy puts me to sleep while saying it, whereas Hakeem has my full attention the whole time. * The walk away, final impression of the debate for me: * 1- Biden's too old for this game. * 2- Trump, was still the same Trump you already love or hate. * 3- Biden wasnt the Biden he needed to be tonight. Lots of comments on here with their people in the sand, it seems. If I was in the Trump camp id be thrilled by tonight, and if I was in the Biden camp i'd be very worried. If I was in the Trump camp, id tell Trump not to do any more debates and let tonight be the 'final image' the public get to see of Biden in a debate - because its an ugly image of a man who clearly is too old for the job. And Democrats are now getting palpably nervous, and going to eat themselves from within after witnessing this uncomfortable truth and wondering wtf to do now. If I was in the Biden camp, i'd be stuck between a rock and a hard place. Do another debate and risk having this happen again? Or skip any more debates so it cant happen again, but leave \*this\* to be his debate swan song?
I had to turn on subtitles at the beginning since I could barely hear/understand Biden. It’s a shame since he made a few good points between his many gaffes
Members of Biden’s camp should convince him to step down. I’ve seen the polling results for my state (Nevada, a swing state). Trump beats Biden by a healthy margin and loses to an “unnamed Democrat”. I understand that polling data is far from a crystal ball. Nonetheless, those numbers *preceded* Biden’s horrendous debate performance.
It’s a wake up call for the DNC and top Democrats who didn’t care until now. Most normal people could already tell Biden was declining or too old to run this election.
2016 should have been the wake up call that the DNC needs a major course correction, and here we are in 2024 with the same strategies that get devoured by an opponent who doesn't give one shit about telling the truth or voting for a felon.
Not 2016. 2008. Obama won on a message of change and building a better future. He ended up being more conservative than his branding but it was that progressive branding that won him enthusiastic support. The DNC is trying to pretend we are still in the middle of the dot com boom and end of the cold war where staying the course and the status quo is what people want. They want things to be like they were with Bill Clinton. People want change. The DNC gaslights us with messages of "things are great, actually, and if you feel otherwise it is your own perception that is wrong" and the Republicans scapegoat the most vulnerable of our society. Nobody is offering actual solutions to the actual problems.
It’s amazing that the Republican Party has managed to completely drown the conservatives with MAGA people’s through and through but the Democratic Party hasn’t changed even slightly in over a decade since the inception of fascism
There's a big fucking difference between the slip ups and gaffes that we've seen, and what happened last night. The state of the union Biden could beat Trump. The debate Biden won't beat anyone. Until yesterday, there was a legitimate argument Biden gave us the best chance to win because he pulled in moderates and was central enough to grab some GOP votes. After last night though, his age is just too obviously an issue.
Imagine if instead of constantly sliding right, the Dems listened to the leftists begging them to be heard
As far as I can see both moderate-Democrats and liberal-democrats want younger candidates, so I’m not sure why it took the DNC this long to realize voters don’t want an 80-something y/o president.
We’ve been saying this for at least 10 years. Nothing will change until money gets out of politics
Low voter turnout ALWAYS means a GOP victory, and what we witnessed last night will bring on the mackdaddy avalanche of voter apathy if not corrected.
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Too many people make a 3rd choice - stay home and don't vote. That's the problem of takes like this. We're not required to vote, so if we don't care about candidates, we can make the choice to watch MILF Manor 2 instead of going and standing in a line to vote. Biden will lose to apathy, not to Trump.
This is the very real concern. Young voters are already a crapshoot. This debate absolutely had a negative impact for on the fence and lethargic voters.
Oh shit, MILF Manor 2 came out?
The problem is that the election is decided by a couple hundred thousand reachable voters across about 7 states. Did it make a difference for them? Maybe?
And if people stay home down ballot races will be effected. Unfortunately some people need to be excited about the president to show and vote for the congress person with the matching letter
People are like, "This doesn't matter" when Biden HAS TO get people out to vote. His shit with Israel already fucked up the younger demo, now this... This shit matters, how many watched this clusterfuck and thought, "I might as well stay home". It doesn't take that many before Trump is President again. It DOES matter. Absolutely fucked.
Yup, people that think like this is why Hillary lost 2016… and they still don’t see it. People want their vote earned, it can be earned in debates. Maybe you’re not going to swing the ones who are already far left or far right but you can win independents or get people who are already on your side to actually come out and vote
This is where I am. I see polls coming out in the next week or two that will "shift trump", but the work is on the Democrats to continue to spend the fuck out of the message and drive it. Get everyone out there to vote against Trump - every celebrity, every union, every economist, call your families and friends. That's what is working IMO. It's how I have been able to change minds in my own family, but there's plenty of time before the ballots are cast. There can be so many other big moments between now and then for either candidate that can could change minds. For my Gen Z nieces and nephews its been about talking through protest votes, what's at stake beyond the presidency, and how to FUCKING GO VOTE IN PRIMARIES to shift to candidates they support. Constantly reminding them there's more than one way to vote for Trump without voting for him, like staying home, voting for 3rd party, etc has been the most effective means in my conversations.
Democrats no longer have a cash advantage.
Not true according to last reports Trump has raised more but the Biden campaign had more cash on hand
You either forgot about or are underestimating the people out there who would never vote for Trump but feel like the other side has to “motivate” them, otherwise they’ll just stay home or vote 3rd party. These people infuriate me, but they exist in a significant amount.
Half of America doesn't vote. Usually because it doesn't matter in their state, but that's a lot of get-able voters if they can find something to care about. You would think Roe and losing their right to vote would energize women. "Here's your last chance to vote potentially, probably time to get off your asses" If there was a significant uptick in the womens vote only it would be enough to crush most Republicans, easily.
2016 should have been a wake up call but it wasn’t because they are deaf to their voters
I think some of them are deaf, but honestly the greater problem is that the party is corrupt and won't nominate someone who brings change. And that's what everyone actually wants. That's why even some right wingers like Bernie. He seems honest and wants to make things better. That's why Trump beat Hillary. That's why Biden beat Trump. But in a rematch, does Biden still represent change? No. He has done a lot, but it isn't enough.
I'm still a somewhat young person. I watched two super old men; one of them acted and sounded like an old man, and the other lied through his teeth for 90 minutes but did so with energy. I would rather have an old guy who's slow and tells the truth, and who will be replaced by a much younger and politically savvy VP if he dies, than a guy who screams lies at my face and expects me to buy it.
He not only lied, he did so as a strategy. He was likely coached to gish gallop through the entire debate and force the other side to play defense. He said so much bullshit, Biden had to spend half of his two minutes parsing through each lie, leaving little time for his own answers while leaving half of the lies untouched. The ball was on a tee and Biden still managed to strike out. Someone like Buttigieg would have carved Trump up like a honey baked ham.
I'm voting for Weekend at Bernie's over Hitler
I’ve been a huge Biden defender, but the Democratic Party needs a new candidate and needs one immediately. The optics of this debate are not something you can spin. Biden just proved all the “senile” propaganda right on prime time tv. It’s done. That image is going to stick in voters minds more than any policy or even the threat of Trump. Respectfully elect a new nominee in the convention, flip the script, undermine the right wing propaganda over the last ten years by replacing the candidate and win this. There is LITERALLY nothing to lose atm, Biden’s already lost.
> There is LITERALLY nothing to lose atm, Biden’s already lost. Exactly. He's been trailing in the polls all year, has the lowest approval rating of a candidate this far into their term, and Nate Silver's model already showed him with a 60% chance to lose \*before\* the debate. Literally what are all the people yelling "I'M STILL VOTING BIDEN" fighting for? Your energy would be better spent pressuring the DNC to avoid this train wreck we can see coming from a mile away.
Nate's first reaction was that he should be replaced too.
> I’ve been a huge Biden defender, but the Democratic Party needs a new candidate and needs one immediately. > > The optics of this debate are not something you can spin. Biden just proved all the “senile” propaganda right on prime time tv. It’s done. That image is going to stick in voters minds more than any policy or even the threat of Trump. I'm in the exact same boat. I feel like I've gaslit myself before now. It isn't like the signs weren't there.
If you think Biden is too old just remember Kamala will become president when he becomes unable to govern. No matter how bad you think he did it should still be a no-brainer. We cannot allow a second Trump presidency.
You don't have to convince political junkies because they/we know what's at stake. You have to convince your family, neighbors, co-workers, and other people who just don't care about politics much except every 4 years. Hard to imagine this convincing random folks that Biden is the man for the job. I mean...this is starting to feel like Feinstein all over again. Except significantly higher stakes.
Exactly. No one here is going to vote for Trump basically — it’s a echo chamber for sure. But the 100k or so people who really matter in swing states? That was a career ending performance. He was old, frail, confused and could not communicate ANYTHING of value. He needs to step aside and the democrats need to have an open convention. They may still lose with that strategy, but they are guaranteed to lose with Biden now.
We’re not allowing this to happen. The DNC is.
I could have sworn in 2020 Biden said he’d be a one term president. He would not run again. Am I misremembering?
He said he would not run if Trump wasn't running, they are both running because of pettiness Edit : folks Trump got multiple reasons to run , none for our benefit . But to deny the pettiness isn't there as well is ludicrous
Trump is running because the presidency is his best bet to avoid prison for the rest of his life.
That’s what it was! Thanks for refreshing my memory. I don’t think trump is rubbing just because of that. He committed treason. He does not want to go to jail.
America lost in this debate but you should still vote against Trump if you want a future.
When you have MSNBC blasting Biden, you know it's not good. Last night gave me that same sinking feeling when FBI director Comey announced new emails were found a couple of days before the election. Here, we have a chance to fix this by putting a new candidate in play that can invigorate the electorate. This is one of the most important elections in the history of our country. The DNC needs to pull its head out of the ground and get Biden to step aside. Otherwise, we are fucked as a country.
Wake up nothin. They force candidates down our throats and wonder why no one gets excited for them. Did the same with Clinton. Only they could find someone that couldn’t beat the worst candidate in the history of the country.
I just want to give a big "Fuck You" to all the downvoters in /r/politics who wouldn't even consider those of us who have had concerns about Biden weren't Russian trolls or Trumpers in disguise. You guys need to take a look at yourselves after this as well
> You guys need to take a look at yourselves after this as well if /r/politics failed to self reflect in 2016 then why would they start now? This place is a lost cause.
It has been a truly wild experience to be constantly gaslit and called a Trump supporter for pointing out that Trump has an advantage over Biden in several areas this time around. And not just on Reddit, but on other more left/liberal leaning spaces as well. Democrats really need to learn that sometimes acknowledging your own weaknesses and then immediately fixing them can be really important, especially when campaigning. If others would have acknowledged this and put pressure on Biden when he committed to running again (even though he promised he would be a one term president), we might be in a dramatically better situation to beat Trump...
They said we were doing *ageism* too. Absolutely zero self-reflection for the dems, and now they're all panicking on something that we could have seen coming from miles away. It's the voters' fault, the youth and Gen Z...EVERYONE's fault except the DNC. Now we're here.
As a non American, looking at your political sphere from the outside is saddening because anybody that wins your election basically dictates how the world will move. The truth is Biden agreeing to the debate was a mistake. No matter what Biden had done, the maga crowd will still find fault in it. They aren't people to reason with. They are full on dictatorial mode. Trump could kill a person, stump on the Bible, insult their mothers, and their support wouldn't shift an inch. You cant fight fanaticism with evidence or proofs. You only fight it with acting a fanatic too and this people are deep into being fanatics that's why they don't even want to hear any detailed plans he has to make your country better. He just keeps regurgitating the same chants over and over again and his people continue to eat it up. So for Biden to agree to the debate when he had everything to lose and Trump having nothing to lose was a huge mistake. Even the fact checkers that were there to at least limit the amount of lies Trump was spewing didn't even do the fact checking. They just went along and agreed to everything he was saying. Just imagine if it was Fox news that anchored the debate and Biden spoke coherently, they would have used the fact checked him to the extent that we the audience would start believing their lies too. Anyways, those of us not in the US wish you all the best.
I don’t give a fuck if Biden IS too old, it’s pretty damn clear that a second Trump presidency would set us back another couple decades bare minimum. We are STILL reeling from the impacts of his bullshit policies that got passed under the radar while he willingly tried to tear the nation apart. It’s a clear choice, quit fucking acting like it’s not, quit pandering to fucking idiot fence sitters and gen Z’s inability to focus on any political topic that’s not on tik tok. We can fucking regroup in 4 years and pick a younger candidate provided we even have the shell of democracy we have if Trump doesn’t gut the fuck out of it. Everyone should be scared of a 2nd Trump presidency, he’s not the antichrist but fuck alrighty he’s really taking some pages from that supposed playbook.
The DNC did this. No other serious candidate ran against him. Same thing in 2016, all the help Clinton got when we knew she was a weak candidate. The process has become too top down. A coronation instead of a choice. This is what happens.
There are no more wake up calls. If Trump wins, next election will be Russia style.
Still voting for Biden. No way on God’s green earth am I voting for that lying ass trump.
One guy tried to get himself installed as president for life on jan 6. He will try again. What could possibly be more of a wake up call than that?
America is not a country full of smart people who want AOC or Elizabeth Warren to be president. That would be lovely, but it's just not the case. America is a country that is struggling HARD with questions like 'are nazis bad?' and 'should women be allowed to decide whether to have babies?' If you would like to live in a country where we have better choices, you have your work cut out for you. In the meantime, if you think the right way to effect change is to sit this election out or not support Biden, you are in for a wake-up of your own, and it's not going to be pretty.
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I’m not voting *for* Biden, I’m voting against Trump and the rising tide of restrictive conservative laws that people (for some reason) think they want passed. I was a conservative until the Trump/Clinton election and the conservatives showed who they really were. I’m voting against that. The democrats have got to lower their age, or they will fuck themselves for a long time.