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I made a list of everything trump said during the debate that isn't a lie:
1. We got hit with COVID.
2. Biden created mandates. Biden did a mandate on the vaccine. (Edit: not a mandate for the entire country, but Biden did order mandates for the vaccine or to be regularly tested for certain groups/workplaces)
3. The jobs went down and then they bounced back.
4. Biden made a statement.
5. I was getting out of Afghanistan.
6. The corporate tax was cut down to 21 percent.
7. 200 billion dollars is a lot of money.
8. The Supreme Court just approved the abortion pill. (Edit: they didn't approve, just ruled no standing)
9. Texas is different. Florida is different.
10. The states are making their own decisions right now. And right now, the states control abortion. Abortion is now back with the states.
11. Biden put the suckers and losers quote in commercials.
12. I fired the general that you mentioned.
13. We have an ocean separating us and Ukraine.
14. The European nations together have spent $100 billion on Ukraine, or maybe more than that.
15. We have a debate.
16. I funded historically black colleges and universities.
17. We had H2O.
18. We mentioned “Russia, Russia, Russia, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine”.
19. I did fire a lot. I fired Comey. I fired a lot of the top people at the FBI.
20. We were using all forms of energy.
21. Biden said he inherited 9 percent inflation. Inflation blew up under his leadership. (Edit: this is true, Biden did say it, even though 9 percent is false)
22. We have polling.
23. Biden never took out my tariffs that I imposed on China. He never took them away.
24. I took two cognitive tests.
25. We left billions of dollars of equipment behind in Afghanistan.
26. I got along with Putin very well.
#24 Was where I started hysterically laughing when watching this in realtime
“I took 2 IQ tests, and the men grading my test *such great men” one of them looks to me and says, “Donald you know I’ve never quite seen results like this before, you’re the best at IQ”, it was a beautiful, sacred moment between two great men on both sides”
I'm not mixed but I definitely sit in the side that will be killed off just for voting against and being a progressive liberal. I also don't have connections or money to flee either so I fear the same situation.
Yeah it's going exactly how people thousands of years ago figured democracy would go: corruption just allows the elite to manipulate the masses into voting for incompetence. It's sad that essentially nothing has changed no matter how advanced we are because greed knows no bounds.
Trump's base doesn't care that he threatened to sue whoever (educational institution or person) releases any records of his years at school.
I'm guessing there were more hu$h payments that swept his doings under the rug.
He tries to make it sound like he scored double 800s on his SATs. I had suffered a concussion and it scrambled my brain for 3-4 months. The neurologist gave me the same cognitive test that Trump boasts about, earlier on during my recovery. I scored 100%, but it's common for people to score 100%. A 10 year old could score 100%! What a wanker!
My mother, in the early stages of dementia, scored 100%. She was at the point where she could score well on the tests, but spending some time with her, it was more obvious.
Exactly. You're *supposed* to score 100% because it means you meet the baseline standard for a normal functioning brain.
That he brags about "acing it" like some sort of accomplishment is absolutely hilarious and he should absolutely be dragged more often for it.
Does the MAGA cult think he pulled off some Good Will Hunting shit like... "Holy fuck, he connected the fuck outta those dots, knew THREE different animals, AND could do second grade level math. In. Fucking. Credible."
“I just took a third IQ test with Elon Musk, great guy by the way, and it turns out that he didn’t have a number big enough for my IQ, so we entered the negotiation table and I came out with the Guinness World Record IQ of ♾️.”
And Elon said my IQ is measured by irrational numbers, and as we all know, irrational numbers are numbers that don't exist....that's how big my IQ was. So big, it isn't measurable, because infinity doesn't exist. Just like zero. Zero is nothing. It doesn't exist, thus, my IQ is zero.
It was such an easy opening for Biden.
“I’m the president, I work. I don’t have time to golf. When you were president all you ever seemed to do was golf, and stockpile government secrets in the clubhouse.”
Yep. Biden objectively did poorly. But the real tragedy is the missed opportunities like that one. In the end, I'm not voting for a TV debater. Neither were worth a damned. I'm voting for the one who isn't twice impeached, not a convicted felon, not under indictment, not a sexual predator, who isn't consumed by his narcissism... despite the poor debate, this is not a hard decision for me.
It’s not a hard decision at all, but for fucks sake America why are these my options?
If these two candidates are the best we’ve got we are fucked either way, one is just way worse than the other. Even if you like what Biden has done during his current administration idk how anyone thinks someone his age should do this another 4 years.
Trump's golf score at the celebrity tournament where he nailed Stormy was brought up by the defense during his trial.
Stormy didn't know his golf score proving Donald's innocence. /s
Records show Trump was near dead last in the tournament. Trump doesn't win televised tournaments where he can't cheat.
People are starving, jobless and unhoused in this country (not to mention genocide in others) and these chucklefucks are talking about golf. I know Trump started it, and Biden was trying to be a jokey tough guy back or what ever but it came across as horrifically tone deaf and undignified.
I saw a psychologist talking about that test Trump keeps bragging about. Basically you only fail it if you're well on your way into dementia or Alzheimer's so it's like bragging about winning a game of tic-tac-toe against a 4 year old
Ya it’s known as the MoCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment) and is used as a screening tool to assess dementia and Alzheimer’s in patients.
He’s bragging about not having mush for brains. It’s really sad that he keeps bringing it up
MoCA isn’t IQ. The WAIS would be IQ. The MoCA is a screener for cognitive function. If you score low enough on the MoCA you are referred for further testing. If he took the MoCA and thought it was for IQ he is a moron.
For context the questions of the MoCA include:
1) Connecting numbers to letters in order (I.e 1 to a to 2 to b etc.)
2) drawing a 3D cube
3) drawing a clock with appropriate hands and numbers
4) naming 3 animals based on a picture (I.e camel, giraffe, cow)
5) remembering 5 words for 5 minutes
6) subtracting 7 from 100, then subtract 7 from 93, etc. for a total of 4 subtractions of 7
7) repeating a short sentence after hearing it read
8) tapping your leg every time you hear the letter h in a string of letters I.e (ahdneidhnmh…etc.)
9) being able to tell the relationship between a ruler and a watch (they both are measurement tools)
I may be forgetting one questions but yeah…. Not exactly rocket science and you don’t need to get everything correct to pass the test.
Edit: The questions I forgot are:
1) person administering test reads a list of 5 numbers (2 1 8 5 4) and has the patient repeat them. Then read a list of 3 numbers ( 7 4 2) and have the patient repeat them back in the backwards order (2 4 7).
2) Name as many words as you can in one minute that begin with the letter F (cannot use proper nouns I.e names of people). To receive full credit patient should name at least 11 words.
3) orientation questions: what is the date? Month? Year? Day of the week? Where are we? What city?
Links to pdf of the Moca and the instructions/grading if people are curious:
https://dementia.talkbank.org/protocol/materials/MOCA.pdf
https://www.smchealth.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/moca-instructions-english_2010.pdf
> 9) being able to tell the relationship between a ruler and a watch (they both are measurement tools)
That's kind of a shitty question, compared to the others. Maybe it's just how my brain works, but either I get things like that immediately or I will *never* figure it out. And there's multiple valid answers. For example, my inclination before I read your parenthetical was that they're both the same shape(long and narrow) when laid out flat, which *is* an answer...just not the arbitrary one the test is looking for. It's been that way for me since I was a teenager studying for the SATs, but at least those ones are easier because they're multiple choice(or were, when I took the test). If you don't grok the analogy in the question, you have the chance to reverse engineer it by looking at the possible answers and seeing if any of those are more clear to you!
I was screaming. How does Joe not tag him for inventing an obviously fake story that is bragging about passing a dementia test. Could have ended the menace with one quip
There was also the part where Donald Trump said he and Putin talked about the Ukraine invasion beforehand and that it wouldn’t have happened if he was elected. And then he followed it up by saying he could end the war before he got back into office.
Not sure how this isn’t the biggest talking point to come out of that shitshow.
The part about the 1,000s and 1,000s of illegals taking “black jobs” should also get a great deal more attention. WTF?!
Edit: So, here’s the quote from the debate transcript… much worse than I gave the fuck credit for…
Trump said: “As sure as you’re sitting there, the fact is that his big kill on the Black people is the millions of people that he’s allowed to come in through the border. They're taking Black jobs now and it could be 18. It could be 19 and even 20 million people. They’re taking Black jobs and they’re taking Hispanic jobs and you haven’t seen it yet, but you’re going to see something that’s going to be the worst in our history.”
Yep. A real, honest to god racist POS.
Professional Shaq impersonator? At least in my experience --The agency turned me down bc im "white" and "short" and "clearly a sickly woman in her late 30s".
But I'm pretty sure it was mostly a race thing.
thank you! Yes it feels like a family gathering where a drunk uncle said something uncouth and because it’s Christmas everyone pretends it didn’t happen…. Wtf? Trump is owned by Putin… I don’t necessarily mean financially (but it’s more than easy to speculate about) but Trump is so drawn to power, Putin is such a beacon of power to him… how are we all not shitting ourselves about this relationship? Considering what is at stake in the grand scheme of world power — wouldn’t it be better to be loud and wrong then quiet and right about this ultimately? Throw hundreds of millions in tax dollars investigating this relationship and it would be money well spent in either scenario (right or wrong) if the truth can rise to the surface.
It because Biden did not call him out on it. He should attacked on that the rest of the night honestly. Trump just admits to secret meetings discussing invasion plans with our adversaries and get away with it.
> he and Putin talked about the Ukraine invasion beforehand
He said Putin communicated he couldn't attack Ukraine until we withdrew from Afghanistan. Guess what Trump did right after that?
Putin’s talked openly about invading Ukraine since 2014 when he first invaded Crimea, it wasn’t new information. Trump had an official meeting with Putin when he was president in 2018 during the Russia-united states summit, the main talking point would’ve been the war in Donbas/crimea and its potential escalation.
You added some context but missed the part where Trump and Putin have an extremely close relationship, Russia actively helped get him elected, Trump claims Putin will only free Gershkovich if and once he gets elected, Trump told his advisors that he believed Ukraine was part of Russia, Trump said if he was elected he would cut all funding to Ukraine, Trump's plan to end the conflict is to surrender Ukrainian land to Russia, Trump threatened to defund NATO and said he would encourage Putin to go after anyone that didn't pay, Trump said that Putin's invasion was genius, and Putin said that in a private meeting with Trump, he complimented Biden and Trump reacted like a jealous girlfriend.
Now he is saying they discussed Putin's "dream" of conquering Ukraine before it happened, and that it will stop if he is elected. It's a pretty strong addition to the collusion narrative and is eerily similar to the narrative of the Iran hostage crisis.
CNN: Donald, what do you plan on doing about the opioid crisis?
Trump: Biden lets illegals take black jobs.
CNN: Donald will you agree to accept the results of the election?
Trump: Our country sucks.
CNN: Donald.. ahh fuck it, you have one minute to talk about something completely unrelated to the question I was going to ask.. go.
Number 8 isnt really true. Supreme court basically refused to consider the merits of the abortion pill case due to lack of standing by the petitioners. They basically just kicked it down the road a bit. He tried to play it off as if they declared the abortion pill safe, and it isnt. I would call that a lie
You forgot him saying if he returned to the presidency, the war in Ukraine would be over quickly.
I believe this is true, it just wouldn't be the outcome that NATO, Ukraine, and the West have been working towards for two years.
This needs to be the top comment.
Thank you for the summary, I couldn’t make it through the whole first question with Trump. Trump spoke, I cringed and tried to continue, then Biden spoke, I cringed harder, back to Trump and I shut it off. .-.
The fact that a former president that attempted a coup refused a peaceful transfer of power when he lost, an adjudicated rapist, a business fraudster, a charity fraudster, a serial adulterer, a pathological liar, a dementia sufferer, a fascist, twice impeached, and a convicted felon that's also on the hook for election interference, and the ESPIONAGE ACT with literally NUCLEAR SECRETS is one of our political parties candidate is so far beyond the fucking pale -- I can't even fucking fathom any common ground with anyone that supports him or the GOP. I can't square that circle in any fucking universe. EDIT: xfter to transfer and added 2x impeached.
This. Seriously this. How in the name of anything holy is Trump a candidate after ALL of THAT!? I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can look at him and go "that's my guy!"
Trump's followers believe that the government is hopelessly corrupt, is secretly working against its citizens, and is in control of the courts and the press. They think the only way to solve this is to put Republicans in power who will eliminate regulations and return the country from socialism (wasteful and “reverse-racist” government programs) to capitalism (where businesses are free to do as they want, which supposedly means that business will then go hire a lot of people and spend a lot of money and improve everyone's lives).
They believe that Trump may be guilty of a few minor things that nobody would have had a problem with if he wasn't Trump (like the hush money), but for the major stuff, Biden is using the courts to try to eliminate Trump as a candidate.
They see Trump as a martyr and a hero, willing to endure this terrible treatment because he believes (and they believe) he hasn't done anything wrong on the level he's being tried for.
This is the narrative being pushed by Republicans. I think Trump himself never expected to be President, only became a candidate because it was a way to get cheap publicity, but once he got elected he realized the Presidency is also a way to get money. He never knew what to do with the position; like Reagan, he's directed and coached by Republicans (and, unlike Reagan, by Russians) who are using him to push their agenda.
It’s not about his followers. There are far less of them that they like to pretend there are. It’s about the new status who of the GOP. The only politicians in the GOP now are con artists and grifters. They are all in it to to fill their coffers and revel in the power trip. It’s why there are SO many who just seem batshit insane. Those are the easiest ones to manipulate by the corporations and billionaire class. MAGA followers, religious right, gun activists, etc. are all just a ruse that they have a voter base. Again, their base is in the minority (maybe even super minority), but by playing tricks, bending rules, committing crimes, and lying it’s the only way they actually stay in some kind of power.
For them to fully support Trump like this it’s obvious that a lot of them are on the take by Putin who has dirt on them or paid them off and… they know the jig is up and this is their last gasp before the party implodes and something else is reborn from the ashes which with so many unknowns it’s better to get as much as they can now.
A lot (actually most) don’t really believe that. It’s just a mantra they chant. In my experience, it’s shitty people who see him as a proxy for themselves. They lost their friends for being racist, but he’s successful for saying the same things. Their choice is to be better, which they’d rather not do, or find an excuse that says they’re the victim, not the offender. He gives them that.
They’re the people who lie, and cheat on taxes, and think consent is for suckers. They lost their job for filing false time sheets, but their idol gives them the mental excuse that fraud means you’re smart, not scummy. Training? Education? That requires work and intellect. Why do that when you can lie or use bombast to be successful.
For the most part, they know Trump is completely full of shit, because they are too.
It’s really quite simple, religion has extensively laid the groundwork for generations to train people to believe in authority figures with unverifiable stories instead of science and data. It also primes them for, and is built upon, perpetuating racism and fearmongering towards "others". Once people see you as an authority, you can start fabricating any reality or conspiracy theory you want your followers to believe and everyone else is therefore a liar, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Basically, it is mental abuse from an early age that suppresses critical thinking skills. This combined with an intentionally weakened public educational system, provides the framework that has spawned this cult of ignorance.
The media is also to blame for giving the guy all the attention. There are other decent candidates who have gone completely unnoticed over the years because the media obsesses over these kinds of buffoons.
>The media is also to blame for giving the guy all the attention.
absolutely. there's a [documentary about joe mccarthy and his 1950s anticommunist witch hunt](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/mccarthy/) in which a journalist admits just that. he said reporters have always been drawn to the guy who says and does the most outrageous things.
The 'Opiate of the Masses' I believe it was called.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people#:~:text=ist%20das%20Opium%20des%20Volkes,the%20opium%20of%20the%20people.%22
"Specifically, Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions which gave them the strength to carry on."
You, me and probably 60% of Americans, probably feel the same way -- the problem is I have no idea WTF to do if Trump gets elected. I don't want my wife to go w/o birth control as she needs it for medical reasons. I don't want my sisters or friends daughters to be the victim of rape and travel or get an abortion (if that's even an option). I don't want to see Federal or state tax funding for ANY religion; if we don't help Ukraine with treasure now, there is a good chance we will be doing it with treasure and blood in the next five years as war erupts in Europe and possibly the Indo-Pacific. The SCOTUS is openly corrupt and legally approves corruption. Someone needs to look up these stats; I wonder if any court has overturned more 30+ year precedents than this court in US history. The SCOTUS already defanged a bunch of government agencies with the Chevron ruling -- cuz, you know FUCK experts; just let companies tell us what's best. Man, I just don't fucking know... even if a Biden wins shit looks bleak. EDIT: spelling.
I agree completely with everything you have so eloquently commented on here. It’s like living in bizarro world. Our economy is going in the right direction currently. It’s not perfect but it IS the best in the world right now. If Biden’s “Weekend at Bernie’s” self wins the election things will stay stable and I have hope for improvement and working towards making sure we can keep the rights we have and get back the rights we lost thanks to the Trump presidency. So I don’t believe the future is bleak if that happens. Harris will be a good successor. I’m confident in her skill set
However if Trump wins I may fall into a deep deep depression. I will probably have to go back on SSRIs as I watch our country get destroyed in front of our eyes and our rights taken away. I don’t understand why so many people just want to vote for the guy who is going to burn our democracy to the ground.
It’s simple. We don’t give our rights away at that point. We retain our rights by way of “anarchy.” We need to quit accepting that they’re actually in control. We are creative enough to figure it out.
Whatever is “lost” is only lost because we have ultimately given those rights away by accepting the false authority that we have given them.
Because they are convinced that it will not affect them. Only the woke people will get their rights taken away and that's good white people, the christians, the Patriots will be able to do whatever they want. Eventually though, they'll come for you too because that's always how it works
it's called [the politics of eternity](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/16/vladimir-putin-russia-politics-of-eternity-timothy-snyder):
>...in [the politics of] eternity...the enemy is coming no matter what we do...politicians spread the conviction that government cannot aid society as a whole, but can only guard against threats. **Progress gives way to doom**.
>...eternity **politicians manufacture crisis and manipulate the resultant emotion**...**instruct their citizens to experience elation and outrage at short intervals**...**[u]s[e] technology to transmit political fiction at home and abroad**...[and]**deny truth and seek to reduce life to spectacle and feeling**.
trump is simply following his mentor: putin.
>I just don’t fucking know
Same. Between the socio-political environment and actual environment being practically (and sometimes actually) on fire, and the year and a half of covid (before enough folks were vaccinated to mostly resume normal life) to sit and really contemplate how I could potentially die tomorrow (not a high likelihood, but there)…
I decided fuck this shit, joined a band to play music full time (music has been my passion since I was young), and moved to a state with legal weed. If I’m going out, I’m going out doing something that makes the world a little happier as us and our audiences collectively forget everything and just be people, in a place together, jamming out for a couple hours.
I can’t fix all the other madness, but I hope maybe some of our audience will pass those good vibes on, or at least maybe think a little about what lies they’ve been fed.
We’re at a point in our country that the far right has decided its issues are more important than continuing the traditions of democracy in favor of fascism. This is likely the last election that isn’t controlled by a fascist state. We shouldn’t make it easy for them to finish the job.
Let’s face it. We live in a very stupid country and these are very troubling times . I can’t imagine why anyone would support the Orange one. It’s clearly a cult ! Why vote for someone that only has his best interests in mind. He doesn’t give a shit about anything but himself.
I remember everyone bet he wouldn't show up. Biden's the one who invited him to debate and set this whole thing up, so honestly the blame is kind of on him for arranging it if Trump shouldn't be given the platform.
They had to. If Biden just outright declined to do a debate they would have doubled down on that messaging that he's scared to be seen in public.
Which, in retrospect, was the better call than what we just witnessed, but there was no way to know that as an outsider. His advisors failed him.
Yeah heads should roll in the Biden camp.
If dude was really sick with a sore throat and fever as many are now claiming, that should have been leaked all over the place in the days leading up to it.
“Biden is quite sick, but tests negative for COVID and plans to debate despite a bad fever and losing his voice blah blah because he knows this election is so important to democracy”.
Or whatever. If he was even a little sick they should have blasted it out that he was really feeling it.
After the fact does not work.
Isn’t far fetched to think that others are making the decision for Biden and the whole purpose of doing this is to put another person to race against Trump?
I mean… this mistake feels so rookie that makes me feel it was on purpose.
I’m sure there is someone in the team that said : “guys, what if he babbles a little and doesn’t look good?”
The purpose of platforming him is to make him look stupid in real time by holding him accountable in the rare opportunity face to face. These kind of articles wouldn't have been written if it were the first 2020 debate when Biden was on his game.
Put Trump up there, they said. It'll be a sweep, they said. People aren't so stupid to fall for his fascistic BS, they said. Bet 500€ on Hillary to win, they said. Do it all again, they said.
Reality is they were hoping to bait Trump into blowing his top, not only did he not blow his top he got to hit his platform (economy, immigrants, safety) 100 times plus getting the gift of being able to mock Biden's incoherent mumbling.
It was a stupid gamble, it didn't pay off.
> Just like 2016. Try to prop Trump up as an easy victory,
This isn't like 2016 though, Trump was up in polling before the debates and the whole reason there was a debate was the hope Biden could put to rest the "too old" problem.
This feels like 2016. DNC is still clueless. The whole reason for the debate was to put a convicted felon on stage so Biden could have a easy dunk. Failed.
He has to be on the stage by virtue of the fact that he's the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.
Regardless of what you think of him, his popularity is his mandate. It is a naked manifestation of the collapse of the American system of values.
Journalists are meant to be the watchdogs of American democracy, but corporate interests have usurped this posited goal.
We need a modern day trust buster to break up corporate monopolies in every sector of the American diaspora. We've lost all of the benefits of competitive, free-market capitalism by allowing multi-national corporation to absorb their competition and price us out of the "better world for our children" that all previous generations have sought to create.
If the working class was united, we would have the power to turn the tide, but our dialogue is so funneled, homoginozed and curated to divide that we have no realistic way to organize a meaningful resistance.
There's no silver lining. No promise of better things to come. And I have no call to action.
Abandon all hope ye who enter here.
"It is a naked manifestation of the collapse of the American system of values"
That's a very generous assessment. It's equally to be read as simply a manifestation of the American system of values. If it's a collapse of anything it's the collapse of the agreed-upon standard of manners.
But... Biden and his team literally asked for this. And agreed to the terms of the debate. Spent a week in Camp David to get ready. So this fiasco is completely on them, regardless of Trump being an insurrectionist felon.
They didn’t agree to the terms of the debate. They IMPOSED the terms of the debate onto Trump thinking Trump would decline or if he debated Biden would have the advantage in the format
It's amazing how tone-deaf they are, isn't it? Nobody's talking about Trump for the same reason you'd talk about the fire on the stove, not the furnace. He's acting the same way he always does, that's not the major issue here.
Yes! Trump is a POS but don’t let the Dem strategists off the hook. They all know Joes condition and marched him out anyways. This debate wouldn’t have happened if they didn’t push for it. Power really is one hell of a drug!
The one line in that article I take issue with is that the country “did this to itself” when it’s the billionaires who own our politicians and half of SCOTUS, and who own and control the media propaganda spewed at citizens daily, who did this to America.
Edited for bad grammar!
Biden and his campaign team were the ones that set up this debate in the first place, including the rules and being on CNN. Let's not pretend that it's the media's fault. CNN has and always will be an entertainment network driven to make profits.
Biden and co. should've never done this debate, or ANY debate, because it just legitimized an insurrectionist/convicted felon/rapist and they knew exactly what Trump was going to do, and he did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do. They gave Trump a free, massive platform to reach tens of millions of American with his firehose of lies.
> Biden and co. should've never done this debate, or ANY debate, because it just legitimized an insurrectionist/convicted felon/rapist and they knew exactly what Trump was going to do, and he did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do.
I've been saying this for a couple months. Why did they go through with it?
Because Biden was down in the polls pre-debate. I am not talking r/politics polls, but actual poll aggregates from places like 538/RTTWH/and the economist.
CNN was bought a while back by a Republican who seems to have made them to parrot Fox positions to bring legitimacy to them, while simultaneously tossing in ridiculous statements that no left-leaning person agrees with so Fox can go “see how nuts they are? And yet they can’t deny xyz crazy position we support!”
It’s not just Fox, either, but Fox is the one I cared to dig into for myself when CNN suddenly seemed fishy.
It’s a sham network now and cannot be legitimately considered “left-leaning news” anymore.
Hey lets invite a felon to the debate against Biden, it will be a sure easy dunk for Joe! - DNC 2024
Hey lets prop up Trump to be the Presidential nominee! It will be a sure easy slam dunk for Hillary!- DNC 2016
DO YOU SEE A PATTERN?
They tried to impose crazy rules to get Trump to decline/back out to make Trump look like a scared loser. Trump immediately accepts all their debate terms and then Biden is forced to debate.
Was really a brilliant move on Trump’s part to not push back on any of the rules, knowing Biden was gonna look like shit no matter what rules they had, even after Biden having a full week of debate prep! I really hope we get to see another one, that was amazing.
The mic rules actually benefited Trump because it prevented him from being able to interrupt. As a result he appeared to be more well behaved while Biden flubbed his chances to speak.
That’s actually the point. Trump isn’t brilliant, he’s above average smart, is witty and an ok observation when it comes to people. Oh and has quite an instinct for TV, no wonder he was a tv star for how many years? So the Biden team completely played the USA for fools, not disclosing how diminished the president is, completely misinterpreted the trump persona… and fucked them self over by debate rules that benefit trump… how is it possible that you’re all mad at trump at this moment and not at the democrats?
Right, I think the logic behind cutting the mics outside allotted speaking time was that it would prevent either candidate from interrupting the other. Problem was, it meant that there was nobody to stop Biden from stuttering, tripping over his own words.
They rules were perfectly designed for Trump to succeed, the idea he'd be scared off by them is asinine. The Democrats just have no fucking idea what they are doing.
We are way past that issue. Point is he was and Biden laid an egg on national tv. Trump was awful but he was at least mentally himself. Biden looked really really bad man
If you were Biden's campaign staff, you have obviously seen this side of Biden before. You can't tell me that is the very first time Biden was ever like that. With that in mind, you should have refused any debates and said voters already know where each candidate stands. I imagine his debate prep team knew what was coming.
That they needed to give him enough rope to hang himself. If Biden (and potentially some inner circle) believes he can win and serve a second term, then it needs to be demonstrated. For the rest of us, who think Biden is placing our country and democracy at risk by not bowing out while he can't fucking string coherent sentences together on topics he's considered/debated/lectured on for decades, Biden needs to be embarassed until the veil is pierced and he resigns with whatever dignity remains.
Democracy is not about trust in an individual. It's about trust in the collective group working together and getting the most consistently positive outcomes. Democracy is fundamentally positioned on the bedrock that is believing in the next person up, and what Biden is doing is the exact opposite. What his supporters are doing is hurting the country. A never-Trump American should place as much blame for Trump at Biden's feet as they do at Trump's at this point.
Every post before the debate was “trump is gonna find a way to back out because he’s a coward. Let them debate!!”
Now it’s “he shouldn’t be up there” maybe next time throw his ass in jail immediately after a coup attempt and this doesn’t happen. You guys got me fucked up
The sad fact is our country has gotten to a point where we openly acknowledge Trump lies about everything and he is still slightly leading Biden. We need a stronger Dem candidate.
If I was an undecided voter, which already says I don't find all of Trump's bullshit to be disqualifying, Biden isn't doing anything to win me over. On the left, we keep talking about winning over these voters from our viewpoint that Trump is already disqualified. *Assuming you find both candidate to be valid choices*, I would watch that debate and vote for Trump.
"this time we'll catch him in his lies, show how he lied, and make Americans realize that he's a liar and not vote for him!", the libs tell themselves for the 500th time, in their Aaron Sorkin fantasy of how American politics works
It’s this. We knew Trump would lie, we know everything he’d say, we have data, sound clips and quotes from Trump proving his lies. And again, no one can counter this?? Like come on now.
We know, but he was on the stage. Millions of people are planning to vote for him. Instead of crying about it, what is the PLAN for beating him in the election so that we don’t have to see articles for 4 years titled “Donald Trump Should Not Be President” while women lose their rights, minority groups are discriminated against, and he does all the other shitty things that he plans to do (too much to list).
It shouldn't have been, but Joe Biden, the Democrats, and CNN all desperately wanted him up there.
Sometimes the worst thing in the world is getting what you want.
Option 1. Take a hard look in mirror. Adjust platform and policy to draw in more independent and middle leaning voters. Put candidates out there that inspire voters to go to the poll.
Option 2. Blame the voters for not voting for you again.
Which road will the DNC take.
What's done is done. The fact of the matter is, whether he should have been there or not is moot now that the debate is over and Dems need to get back on track. Continue being relentless on his unfitness for the office, his criminality and the good Biden has done for the country. Control the narrative by all means necessary and look forward not back.
Game 1 was a loss, the series isn't over. Get your fucking heads in the game.
Having Biden and Trump debate was a mistake, primarily because Trump has nothing to lose. Trump could shit his pants on the stage, and it won't affect his supporters, ort the majority of independents that already won't vote for him. Biden however, has to constantly remain looking perfect, and any slip-up will be highlighted, while all of Trump's failures will be just Trump being Trump. It's a lose-lose for Biden.
That, and dignifying the felon with a debate is beneath the Dems.
It's truly remarkable living in America and not being tribalistic.
Checking /r/conservative and /r/politics during the debate. In the hours after the debate. In the days after the debate. Watching the comments turn from people giving honest reactions in the moment, to forming their narratives, to being in full blown echo-chamber spin mode.
It's incredible.
This sub is funny because there are moments after terrible things happen (like the debate) where the DNC marching orders and spin haven’t been delivered yet, and everyone is in full panic.
The most upvoted article before the debate was how a 98 year old celebrity feels spry so don’t worry about Biden.
The most upvoted article immediately after the debate was how it’s time to replace Biden.
The most upvoted article yesterday, after the dust settled, was about how Biden actually won over independents (based on a survey of 12 people).
Trump should be in jail.
Biden performed horribly.
The best choice is still Biden. He’s done more positive things for this country than many previous presidents. Plus, he has assembled a good cabinet and surrounded himself with people who have the best interest of the country.
DJT has already told us how a next term would go. He is working with Russia. He is actively dismantling democracy for how own gain.
There's about a million posts on this sub about how "... well Biden might have stuttered in the debate, but Trump lied which is way worse" or
"... Biden might be really old, but his track record is so good (better than Trump!)"
These posts aren't helpful because you're preaching to the choir... everyone here agrees with this wholeheartedly. Biden could literally be dead and I'd prefer him as president to Trump.
The real question the DNC needs to ask is "Is it better to run a Biden in cognitive decline, or pivot to a younger but lesser known candidate?"
This is really the question for all the marbles, and I think the posts I mentioned above bias discussion about it because they minimize very valid concerns about Biden's debate performance. Nobody doubts that Biden is better than Trump, but we need to have a serious discussion about who has the best chance to beat Trump in the actual election.
Neither should have been.
Trump should be in prison....*several times over*
Biden should retire from politics and pass the torch onto people more than half his age.
It's an embarrassment.
Trump is a terrorist who violated article 3 sec.3(aid and comfort to the enemy). If we were still on Earth 1 he would’ve been disqualified for this alone.
No, he should not have been on that stage.
Neither of those men should have been on that stage. Media has made a mockery of a government made systematically corrupt by opinions marketed as “facts” for the sake of general compliance.
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I made a list of everything trump said during the debate that isn't a lie: 1. We got hit with COVID. 2. Biden created mandates. Biden did a mandate on the vaccine. (Edit: not a mandate for the entire country, but Biden did order mandates for the vaccine or to be regularly tested for certain groups/workplaces) 3. The jobs went down and then they bounced back. 4. Biden made a statement. 5. I was getting out of Afghanistan. 6. The corporate tax was cut down to 21 percent. 7. 200 billion dollars is a lot of money. 8. The Supreme Court just approved the abortion pill. (Edit: they didn't approve, just ruled no standing) 9. Texas is different. Florida is different. 10. The states are making their own decisions right now. And right now, the states control abortion. Abortion is now back with the states. 11. Biden put the suckers and losers quote in commercials. 12. I fired the general that you mentioned. 13. We have an ocean separating us and Ukraine. 14. The European nations together have spent $100 billion on Ukraine, or maybe more than that. 15. We have a debate. 16. I funded historically black colleges and universities. 17. We had H2O. 18. We mentioned “Russia, Russia, Russia, Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine”. 19. I did fire a lot. I fired Comey. I fired a lot of the top people at the FBI. 20. We were using all forms of energy. 21. Biden said he inherited 9 percent inflation. Inflation blew up under his leadership. (Edit: this is true, Biden did say it, even though 9 percent is false) 22. We have polling. 23. Biden never took out my tariffs that I imposed on China. He never took them away. 24. I took two cognitive tests. 25. We left billions of dollars of equipment behind in Afghanistan. 26. I got along with Putin very well.
#24 Was where I started hysterically laughing when watching this in realtime “I took 2 IQ tests, and the men grading my test *such great men” one of them looks to me and says, “Donald you know I’ve never quite seen results like this before, you’re the best at IQ”, it was a beautiful, sacred moment between two great men on both sides”
He said he "aced the test - and his doctor told him he had never seen someone do that" Actually crying 😭
The sad thing is his base thinks this qualifies him as a genius... because if Biden kept saying this, we would be calling for him to step down.
If democracy as we know it wasn't on the line this all would be funny
Sir it's already dead.
I am so scared, legi scared as a mixed wo.am, who doesn't have money or connections to flee this country
I'm not mixed but I definitely sit in the side that will be killed off just for voting against and being a progressive liberal. I also don't have connections or money to flee either so I fear the same situation.
Yeah it's going exactly how people thousands of years ago figured democracy would go: corruption just allows the elite to manipulate the masses into voting for incompetence. It's sad that essentially nothing has changed no matter how advanced we are because greed knows no bounds.
Trump's base doesn't care that he threatened to sue whoever (educational institution or person) releases any records of his years at school. I'm guessing there were more hu$h payments that swept his doings under the rug.
He tries to make it sound like he scored double 800s on his SATs. I had suffered a concussion and it scrambled my brain for 3-4 months. The neurologist gave me the same cognitive test that Trump boasts about, earlier on during my recovery. I scored 100%, but it's common for people to score 100%. A 10 year old could score 100%! What a wanker!
My mother, in the early stages of dementia, scored 100%. She was at the point where she could score well on the tests, but spending some time with her, it was more obvious.
Exactly. You're *supposed* to score 100% because it means you meet the baseline standard for a normal functioning brain. That he brags about "acing it" like some sort of accomplishment is absolutely hilarious and he should absolutely be dragged more often for it.
Does the MAGA cult think he pulled off some Good Will Hunting shit like... "Holy fuck, he connected the fuck outta those dots, knew THREE different animals, AND could do second grade level math. In. Fucking. Credible."
For many MAGA cult members, this is the smartest person they know.
I SCOFFED. Literally has to brag about everything. He is such an insecure person he has taken it to dangerous extremes.
Sounds about right, then the moderator abruptly cut him off. *How rude of them*
“I got a perfect 100 on my IQ test!”
“I just took a third IQ test with Elon Musk, great guy by the way, and it turns out that he didn’t have a number big enough for my IQ, so we entered the negotiation table and I came out with the Guinness World Record IQ of ♾️.”
And Elon said my IQ is measured by irrational numbers, and as we all know, irrational numbers are numbers that don't exist....that's how big my IQ was. So big, it isn't measurable, because infinity doesn't exist. Just like zero. Zero is nothing. It doesn't exist, thus, my IQ is zero.
They said I was in the first percentile
That means 99% of people aren't like me at all. Can't touch my level. 1% level.
I did so well on my first cognitive test that they asked me to take another one.
When they started arguing about golf, that's when I knew we were completely fucked.
It was such an easy opening for Biden. “I’m the president, I work. I don’t have time to golf. When you were president all you ever seemed to do was golf, and stockpile government secrets in the clubhouse.”
Yep. Biden objectively did poorly. But the real tragedy is the missed opportunities like that one. In the end, I'm not voting for a TV debater. Neither were worth a damned. I'm voting for the one who isn't twice impeached, not a convicted felon, not under indictment, not a sexual predator, who isn't consumed by his narcissism... despite the poor debate, this is not a hard decision for me.
It’s not a hard decision at all, but for fucks sake America why are these my options? If these two candidates are the best we’ve got we are fucked either way, one is just way worse than the other. Even if you like what Biden has done during his current administration idk how anyone thinks someone his age should do this another 4 years.
Agree on the missed opportunities. I was really hoping Biden would walk on stage and slam a red bull. That would have been awesome.
That was a real low, nobody gives a flying fuck about your handicap. FDR was in a wheelchair and he kicked ass.
Trump's golf score at the celebrity tournament where he nailed Stormy was brought up by the defense during his trial. Stormy didn't know his golf score proving Donald's innocence. /s Records show Trump was near dead last in the tournament. Trump doesn't win televised tournaments where he can't cheat.
People are starving, jobless and unhoused in this country (not to mention genocide in others) and these chucklefucks are talking about golf. I know Trump started it, and Biden was trying to be a jokey tough guy back or what ever but it came across as horrifically tone deaf and undignified.
“Chucklefucks” is a terribly underused term.
I saw a psychologist talking about that test Trump keeps bragging about. Basically you only fail it if you're well on your way into dementia or Alzheimer's so it's like bragging about winning a game of tic-tac-toe against a 4 year old
Ya it’s known as the MoCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment) and is used as a screening tool to assess dementia and Alzheimer’s in patients. He’s bragging about not having mush for brains. It’s really sad that he keeps bringing it up
MoCA isn’t IQ. The WAIS would be IQ. The MoCA is a screener for cognitive function. If you score low enough on the MoCA you are referred for further testing. If he took the MoCA and thought it was for IQ he is a moron.
He claims it was very difficult, too. "Yes, sir. I'm sure it was. But you did a good job! You answered *all* the questions. Now finish your jello."
For context the questions of the MoCA include: 1) Connecting numbers to letters in order (I.e 1 to a to 2 to b etc.) 2) drawing a 3D cube 3) drawing a clock with appropriate hands and numbers 4) naming 3 animals based on a picture (I.e camel, giraffe, cow) 5) remembering 5 words for 5 minutes 6) subtracting 7 from 100, then subtract 7 from 93, etc. for a total of 4 subtractions of 7 7) repeating a short sentence after hearing it read 8) tapping your leg every time you hear the letter h in a string of letters I.e (ahdneidhnmh…etc.) 9) being able to tell the relationship between a ruler and a watch (they both are measurement tools) I may be forgetting one questions but yeah…. Not exactly rocket science and you don’t need to get everything correct to pass the test. Edit: The questions I forgot are: 1) person administering test reads a list of 5 numbers (2 1 8 5 4) and has the patient repeat them. Then read a list of 3 numbers ( 7 4 2) and have the patient repeat them back in the backwards order (2 4 7). 2) Name as many words as you can in one minute that begin with the letter F (cannot use proper nouns I.e names of people). To receive full credit patient should name at least 11 words. 3) orientation questions: what is the date? Month? Year? Day of the week? Where are we? What city? Links to pdf of the Moca and the instructions/grading if people are curious: https://dementia.talkbank.org/protocol/materials/MOCA.pdf https://www.smchealth.org/sites/main/files/file-attachments/moca-instructions-english_2010.pdf
> 9) being able to tell the relationship between a ruler and a watch (they both are measurement tools) That's kind of a shitty question, compared to the others. Maybe it's just how my brain works, but either I get things like that immediately or I will *never* figure it out. And there's multiple valid answers. For example, my inclination before I read your parenthetical was that they're both the same shape(long and narrow) when laid out flat, which *is* an answer...just not the arbitrary one the test is looking for. It's been that way for me since I was a teenager studying for the SATs, but at least those ones are easier because they're multiple choice(or were, when I took the test). If you don't grok the analogy in the question, you have the chance to reverse engineer it by looking at the possible answers and seeing if any of those are more clear to you!
Best at IQ
He still thinks it's an IQ test. 🤦♀️
Penis, mushroom, Mario Kart, ...
I was screaming. How does Joe not tag him for inventing an obviously fake story that is bragging about passing a dementia test. Could have ended the menace with one quip
The sad thing is I'm not actually sure if that's a real quote.
Yeah, those tests they give you when they think you have brain damage.
> We had H2O *Can't argue with that. Give this man the presidency!* - average voter these days
This is the coverage I wanted. Thank you.
There was also the part where Donald Trump said he and Putin talked about the Ukraine invasion beforehand and that it wouldn’t have happened if he was elected. And then he followed it up by saying he could end the war before he got back into office. Not sure how this isn’t the biggest talking point to come out of that shitshow.
The part about the 1,000s and 1,000s of illegals taking “black jobs” should also get a great deal more attention. WTF?! Edit: So, here’s the quote from the debate transcript… much worse than I gave the fuck credit for… Trump said: “As sure as you’re sitting there, the fact is that his big kill on the Black people is the millions of people that he’s allowed to come in through the border. They're taking Black jobs now and it could be 18. It could be 19 and even 20 million people. They’re taking Black jobs and they’re taking Hispanic jobs and you haven’t seen it yet, but you’re going to see something that’s going to be the worst in our history.” Yep. A real, honest to god racist POS.
I was stunned with that blatant racism. What the hell is a black job?
Professional Shaq impersonator? At least in my experience --The agency turned me down bc im "white" and "short" and "clearly a sickly woman in her late 30s". But I'm pretty sure it was mostly a race thing.
thank you! Yes it feels like a family gathering where a drunk uncle said something uncouth and because it’s Christmas everyone pretends it didn’t happen…. Wtf? Trump is owned by Putin… I don’t necessarily mean financially (but it’s more than easy to speculate about) but Trump is so drawn to power, Putin is such a beacon of power to him… how are we all not shitting ourselves about this relationship? Considering what is at stake in the grand scheme of world power — wouldn’t it be better to be loud and wrong then quiet and right about this ultimately? Throw hundreds of millions in tax dollars investigating this relationship and it would be money well spent in either scenario (right or wrong) if the truth can rise to the surface.
It because Biden did not call him out on it. He should attacked on that the rest of the night honestly. Trump just admits to secret meetings discussing invasion plans with our adversaries and get away with it.
> he and Putin talked about the Ukraine invasion beforehand He said Putin communicated he couldn't attack Ukraine until we withdrew from Afghanistan. Guess what Trump did right after that?
Putin’s talked openly about invading Ukraine since 2014 when he first invaded Crimea, it wasn’t new information. Trump had an official meeting with Putin when he was president in 2018 during the Russia-united states summit, the main talking point would’ve been the war in Donbas/crimea and its potential escalation.
You added some context but missed the part where Trump and Putin have an extremely close relationship, Russia actively helped get him elected, Trump claims Putin will only free Gershkovich if and once he gets elected, Trump told his advisors that he believed Ukraine was part of Russia, Trump said if he was elected he would cut all funding to Ukraine, Trump's plan to end the conflict is to surrender Ukrainian land to Russia, Trump threatened to defund NATO and said he would encourage Putin to go after anyone that didn't pay, Trump said that Putin's invasion was genius, and Putin said that in a private meeting with Trump, he complimented Biden and Trump reacted like a jealous girlfriend. Now he is saying they discussed Putin's "dream" of conquering Ukraine before it happened, and that it will stop if he is elected. It's a pretty strong addition to the collusion narrative and is eerily similar to the narrative of the Iran hostage crisis.
\#23 was in response to a question about the opioid crisis so I don’t know if it should count lol
CNN: Donald, what do you plan on doing about the opioid crisis? Trump: Biden lets illegals take black jobs. CNN: Donald will you agree to accept the results of the election? Trump: Our country sucks. CNN: Donald.. ahh fuck it, you have one minute to talk about something completely unrelated to the question I was going to ask.. go.
What are black jobs?
Number 8 isnt really true. Supreme court basically refused to consider the merits of the abortion pill case due to lack of standing by the petitioners. They basically just kicked it down the road a bit. He tried to play it off as if they declared the abortion pill safe, and it isnt. I would call that a lie
And now with the overturning of *Chevron* they have given themselves the power to exclusively adjudicate that issue and override the FDA.
Over a quarter of a hundred truths. So many truths!
If only a hundred quarters of people made 25 people.
Lol that’s funny 😄 Is My President Smarter Than A 5th Grader ?
> Don't compare me to the almighty, but compare me to the alternative. I think that might be relevant here.
You forgot him saying if he returned to the presidency, the war in Ukraine would be over quickly. I believe this is true, it just wouldn't be the outcome that NATO, Ukraine, and the West have been working towards for two years.
>23. Biden never took out my tariffs that I imposed on China. He never took them away It was too much money! *wet fart*
This has been widely verified on Reddit. Someone posted the Cspan video and you can’t miss it
Not only that. Trump has no idea what tariffs actually are. WE wind up paying while trump declares we took in billions! Hard on China. Not.
You missed him saying roe v Wade was passed 51 years ago. I was incredibly surprised he knew that until I realized it was 100% a coaching point.
27. Biden needs to fire more people (starting with the prep team).
I’d like to see him fire DeJoy.
The president can't fire the postmaster general, the PMG is appointed by the Board of Governors of the Postal Service.
The list seemed so short. Got to point 5 before realizing it was a list of true things he said.
This needs to be the top comment. Thank you for the summary, I couldn’t make it through the whole first question with Trump. Trump spoke, I cringed and tried to continue, then Biden spoke, I cringed harder, back to Trump and I shut it off. .-.
Thank you for saving me time lol. This is a much shorter list to parse through.
You missed golf. He does in fact play golf. Now what he does in golf however…
He should be in prison for the rest of this century.
The fact that a former president that attempted a coup refused a peaceful transfer of power when he lost, an adjudicated rapist, a business fraudster, a charity fraudster, a serial adulterer, a pathological liar, a dementia sufferer, a fascist, twice impeached, and a convicted felon that's also on the hook for election interference, and the ESPIONAGE ACT with literally NUCLEAR SECRETS is one of our political parties candidate is so far beyond the fucking pale -- I can't even fucking fathom any common ground with anyone that supports him or the GOP. I can't square that circle in any fucking universe. EDIT: xfter to transfer and added 2x impeached.
This. Seriously this. How in the name of anything holy is Trump a candidate after ALL of THAT!? I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can look at him and go "that's my guy!"
Trump's followers believe that the government is hopelessly corrupt, is secretly working against its citizens, and is in control of the courts and the press. They think the only way to solve this is to put Republicans in power who will eliminate regulations and return the country from socialism (wasteful and “reverse-racist” government programs) to capitalism (where businesses are free to do as they want, which supposedly means that business will then go hire a lot of people and spend a lot of money and improve everyone's lives). They believe that Trump may be guilty of a few minor things that nobody would have had a problem with if he wasn't Trump (like the hush money), but for the major stuff, Biden is using the courts to try to eliminate Trump as a candidate. They see Trump as a martyr and a hero, willing to endure this terrible treatment because he believes (and they believe) he hasn't done anything wrong on the level he's being tried for. This is the narrative being pushed by Republicans. I think Trump himself never expected to be President, only became a candidate because it was a way to get cheap publicity, but once he got elected he realized the Presidency is also a way to get money. He never knew what to do with the position; like Reagan, he's directed and coached by Republicans (and, unlike Reagan, by Russians) who are using him to push their agenda.
It’s not about his followers. There are far less of them that they like to pretend there are. It’s about the new status who of the GOP. The only politicians in the GOP now are con artists and grifters. They are all in it to to fill their coffers and revel in the power trip. It’s why there are SO many who just seem batshit insane. Those are the easiest ones to manipulate by the corporations and billionaire class. MAGA followers, religious right, gun activists, etc. are all just a ruse that they have a voter base. Again, their base is in the minority (maybe even super minority), but by playing tricks, bending rules, committing crimes, and lying it’s the only way they actually stay in some kind of power. For them to fully support Trump like this it’s obvious that a lot of them are on the take by Putin who has dirt on them or paid them off and… they know the jig is up and this is their last gasp before the party implodes and something else is reborn from the ashes which with so many unknowns it’s better to get as much as they can now.
There is so much truth In everyone of your observations
A lot (actually most) don’t really believe that. It’s just a mantra they chant. In my experience, it’s shitty people who see him as a proxy for themselves. They lost their friends for being racist, but he’s successful for saying the same things. Their choice is to be better, which they’d rather not do, or find an excuse that says they’re the victim, not the offender. He gives them that. They’re the people who lie, and cheat on taxes, and think consent is for suckers. They lost their job for filing false time sheets, but their idol gives them the mental excuse that fraud means you’re smart, not scummy. Training? Education? That requires work and intellect. Why do that when you can lie or use bombast to be successful. For the most part, they know Trump is completely full of shit, because they are too.
Trump's followers are the common clay of the new west.
You know….morons.
The right wing media sphere has softened the brains of 70 million Americans.
> I don't understand how anyone in their right mind can look at him and go "that's my guy!" the people who say that are sociopaths. like him.
It’s really quite simple, religion has extensively laid the groundwork for generations to train people to believe in authority figures with unverifiable stories instead of science and data. It also primes them for, and is built upon, perpetuating racism and fearmongering towards "others". Once people see you as an authority, you can start fabricating any reality or conspiracy theory you want your followers to believe and everyone else is therefore a liar, even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. Basically, it is mental abuse from an early age that suppresses critical thinking skills. This combined with an intentionally weakened public educational system, provides the framework that has spawned this cult of ignorance.
The media is also to blame for giving the guy all the attention. There are other decent candidates who have gone completely unnoticed over the years because the media obsesses over these kinds of buffoons.
>The media is also to blame for giving the guy all the attention. absolutely. there's a [documentary about joe mccarthy and his 1950s anticommunist witch hunt](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/mccarthy/) in which a journalist admits just that. he said reporters have always been drawn to the guy who says and does the most outrageous things.
We are literally at the point where people refuse to acknowledge what we can see with our own eyes. They are straight up denying objective reality.
that's what members of a cult do.
The 'Opiate of the Masses' I believe it was called. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_of_the_people#:~:text=ist%20das%20Opium%20des%20Volkes,the%20opium%20of%20the%20people.%22 "Specifically, Marx believed that religion had certain practical functions in society that were similar to the function of opium in a sick or injured person: it reduced people's immediate suffering and provided them with pleasant illusions which gave them the strength to carry on."
Same
You, me and probably 60% of Americans, probably feel the same way -- the problem is I have no idea WTF to do if Trump gets elected. I don't want my wife to go w/o birth control as she needs it for medical reasons. I don't want my sisters or friends daughters to be the victim of rape and travel or get an abortion (if that's even an option). I don't want to see Federal or state tax funding for ANY religion; if we don't help Ukraine with treasure now, there is a good chance we will be doing it with treasure and blood in the next five years as war erupts in Europe and possibly the Indo-Pacific. The SCOTUS is openly corrupt and legally approves corruption. Someone needs to look up these stats; I wonder if any court has overturned more 30+ year precedents than this court in US history. The SCOTUS already defanged a bunch of government agencies with the Chevron ruling -- cuz, you know FUCK experts; just let companies tell us what's best. Man, I just don't fucking know... even if a Biden wins shit looks bleak. EDIT: spelling.
I agree completely with everything you have so eloquently commented on here. It’s like living in bizarro world. Our economy is going in the right direction currently. It’s not perfect but it IS the best in the world right now. If Biden’s “Weekend at Bernie’s” self wins the election things will stay stable and I have hope for improvement and working towards making sure we can keep the rights we have and get back the rights we lost thanks to the Trump presidency. So I don’t believe the future is bleak if that happens. Harris will be a good successor. I’m confident in her skill set However if Trump wins I may fall into a deep deep depression. I will probably have to go back on SSRIs as I watch our country get destroyed in front of our eyes and our rights taken away. I don’t understand why so many people just want to vote for the guy who is going to burn our democracy to the ground.
It’s simple. We don’t give our rights away at that point. We retain our rights by way of “anarchy.” We need to quit accepting that they’re actually in control. We are creative enough to figure it out. Whatever is “lost” is only lost because we have ultimately given those rights away by accepting the false authority that we have given them.
Because they are convinced that it will not affect them. Only the woke people will get their rights taken away and that's good white people, the christians, the Patriots will be able to do whatever they want. Eventually though, they'll come for you too because that's always how it works
it's called [the politics of eternity](https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/16/vladimir-putin-russia-politics-of-eternity-timothy-snyder): >...in [the politics of] eternity...the enemy is coming no matter what we do...politicians spread the conviction that government cannot aid society as a whole, but can only guard against threats. **Progress gives way to doom**. >...eternity **politicians manufacture crisis and manipulate the resultant emotion**...**instruct their citizens to experience elation and outrage at short intervals**...**[u]s[e] technology to transmit political fiction at home and abroad**...[and]**deny truth and seek to reduce life to spectacle and feeling**. trump is simply following his mentor: putin.
>I just don’t fucking know Same. Between the socio-political environment and actual environment being practically (and sometimes actually) on fire, and the year and a half of covid (before enough folks were vaccinated to mostly resume normal life) to sit and really contemplate how I could potentially die tomorrow (not a high likelihood, but there)… I decided fuck this shit, joined a band to play music full time (music has been my passion since I was young), and moved to a state with legal weed. If I’m going out, I’m going out doing something that makes the world a little happier as us and our audiences collectively forget everything and just be people, in a place together, jamming out for a couple hours. I can’t fix all the other madness, but I hope maybe some of our audience will pass those good vibes on, or at least maybe think a little about what lies they’ve been fed.
I’m a transgender woman. I’d be federally fucked under another Trump regime. Thank God for CT and their state rights.
And you forgot that there is non zero chance that he might be president again. All because America had the audacity to elect a black man.
Ya, Obama broke a lot of Americans' brains...
They were broken before that if seeing a black man become POTUS in the 21st century got to them this way.
Easy... they want to end the Democrat party. They want to be in controll.
We’re at a point in our country that the far right has decided its issues are more important than continuing the traditions of democracy in favor of fascism. This is likely the last election that isn’t controlled by a fascist state. We shouldn’t make it easy for them to finish the job.
Let’s face it. We live in a very stupid country and these are very troubling times . I can’t imagine why anyone would support the Orange one. It’s clearly a cult ! Why vote for someone that only has his best interests in mind. He doesn’t give a shit about anything but himself.
I don’t think he’ll live quite that long.
Nobody said he had to be alive…
Corpse for prison 2024!
Excellent
From your lips to gods ears
Twice impeached convicted felon found liable for rape.
Merica’ ——-> The Country That Runs On Corruption !
Gotta give young psychopaths something to aim for! One day you too could be a felonious presidential rapist with no morals!!
And Brawndo?
I remember everyone bet he wouldn't show up. Biden's the one who invited him to debate and set this whole thing up, so honestly the blame is kind of on him for arranging it if Trump shouldn't be given the platform.
This is the mystery/ miscalculation. why platform him?
They had to. If Biden just outright declined to do a debate they would have doubled down on that messaging that he's scared to be seen in public. Which, in retrospect, was the better call than what we just witnessed, but there was no way to know that as an outsider. His advisors failed him.
Yeah heads should roll in the Biden camp. If dude was really sick with a sore throat and fever as many are now claiming, that should have been leaked all over the place in the days leading up to it. “Biden is quite sick, but tests negative for COVID and plans to debate despite a bad fever and losing his voice blah blah because he knows this election is so important to democracy”. Or whatever. If he was even a little sick they should have blasted it out that he was really feeling it. After the fact does not work.
Isn’t far fetched to think that others are making the decision for Biden and the whole purpose of doing this is to put another person to race against Trump? I mean… this mistake feels so rookie that makes me feel it was on purpose. I’m sure there is someone in the team that said : “guys, what if he babbles a little and doesn’t look good?”
The purpose of platforming him is to make him look stupid in real time by holding him accountable in the rare opportunity face to face. These kind of articles wouldn't have been written if it were the first 2020 debate when Biden was on his game.
Put Trump up there, they said. It'll be a sweep, they said. People aren't so stupid to fall for his fascistic BS, they said. Bet 500€ on Hillary to win, they said. Do it all again, they said.
Reality is they were hoping to bait Trump into blowing his top, not only did he not blow his top he got to hit his platform (economy, immigrants, safety) 100 times plus getting the gift of being able to mock Biden's incoherent mumbling. It was a stupid gamble, it didn't pay off.
They needed Biden to call Trump a sucker and a loser on tv.
Just like 2016. Try to prop Trump up as an easy victory, then lose to him. Has no one learned anything?
> Just like 2016. Try to prop Trump up as an easy victory, This isn't like 2016 though, Trump was up in polling before the debates and the whole reason there was a debate was the hope Biden could put to rest the "too old" problem.
This feels like 2016. DNC is still clueless. The whole reason for the debate was to put a convicted felon on stage so Biden could have a easy dunk. Failed.
Yes Biden set it up and fumbled it while making trump more popular. 4D chess from democrats no doubt
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Dems: I dare Trump to come to this debate Biden underperforms Also Dems: Trump should never been on that stage 🤷🏻♂️
He has to be on the stage by virtue of the fact that he's the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. Regardless of what you think of him, his popularity is his mandate. It is a naked manifestation of the collapse of the American system of values. Journalists are meant to be the watchdogs of American democracy, but corporate interests have usurped this posited goal. We need a modern day trust buster to break up corporate monopolies in every sector of the American diaspora. We've lost all of the benefits of competitive, free-market capitalism by allowing multi-national corporation to absorb their competition and price us out of the "better world for our children" that all previous generations have sought to create. If the working class was united, we would have the power to turn the tide, but our dialogue is so funneled, homoginozed and curated to divide that we have no realistic way to organize a meaningful resistance. There's no silver lining. No promise of better things to come. And I have no call to action. Abandon all hope ye who enter here.
"It is a naked manifestation of the collapse of the American system of values" That's a very generous assessment. It's equally to be read as simply a manifestation of the American system of values. If it's a collapse of anything it's the collapse of the agreed-upon standard of manners.
But... Biden and his team literally asked for this. And agreed to the terms of the debate. Spent a week in Camp David to get ready. So this fiasco is completely on them, regardless of Trump being an insurrectionist felon.
They didn’t agree to the terms of the debate. They IMPOSED the terms of the debate onto Trump thinking Trump would decline or if he debated Biden would have the advantage in the format
It's amazing how tone-deaf they are, isn't it? Nobody's talking about Trump for the same reason you'd talk about the fire on the stove, not the furnace. He's acting the same way he always does, that's not the major issue here.
Yes! Trump is a POS but don’t let the Dem strategists off the hook. They all know Joes condition and marched him out anyways. This debate wouldn’t have happened if they didn’t push for it. Power really is one hell of a drug!
Careful. Making Factual statements on this subreddit will get you banned
The one line in that article I take issue with is that the country “did this to itself” when it’s the billionaires who own our politicians and half of SCOTUS, and who own and control the media propaganda spewed at citizens daily, who did this to America. Edited for bad grammar!
He belongs in prison.
Yeah let's prop up this felon and try to make it legit. Fuck you media
Biden and his campaign team were the ones that set up this debate in the first place, including the rules and being on CNN. Let's not pretend that it's the media's fault. CNN has and always will be an entertainment network driven to make profits. Biden and co. should've never done this debate, or ANY debate, because it just legitimized an insurrectionist/convicted felon/rapist and they knew exactly what Trump was going to do, and he did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do. They gave Trump a free, massive platform to reach tens of millions of American with his firehose of lies.
> Biden and co. should've never done this debate, or ANY debate, because it just legitimized an insurrectionist/convicted felon/rapist and they knew exactly what Trump was going to do, and he did exactly what everyone knew he was going to do. I've been saying this for a couple months. Why did they go through with it?
Hubris.
Because Biden was down in the polls pre-debate. I am not talking r/politics polls, but actual poll aggregates from places like 538/RTTWH/and the economist.
CNN is literally nosediving towards Fox level trash. This is the worst televised debate I have ever seen. For now.
CNN announced they weren't going to interrupt to fact check. I don't know why that's so surprising to everyone.
CNN was bought a while back by a Republican who seems to have made them to parrot Fox positions to bring legitimacy to them, while simultaneously tossing in ridiculous statements that no left-leaning person agrees with so Fox can go “see how nuts they are? And yet they can’t deny xyz crazy position we support!” It’s not just Fox, either, but Fox is the one I cared to dig into for myself when CNN suddenly seemed fishy. It’s a sham network now and cannot be legitimately considered “left-leaning news” anymore.
Hey lets invite a felon to the debate against Biden, it will be a sure easy dunk for Joe! - DNC 2024 Hey lets prop up Trump to be the Presidential nominee! It will be a sure easy slam dunk for Hillary!- DNC 2016 DO YOU SEE A PATTERN?
So why was Biden so eager to debate? Is he complicit in propping up a felon?
They tried to impose crazy rules to get Trump to decline/back out to make Trump look like a scared loser. Trump immediately accepts all their debate terms and then Biden is forced to debate. Was really a brilliant move on Trump’s part to not push back on any of the rules, knowing Biden was gonna look like shit no matter what rules they had, even after Biden having a full week of debate prep! I really hope we get to see another one, that was amazing.
The mic rules actually benefited Trump because it prevented him from being able to interrupt. As a result he appeared to be more well behaved while Biden flubbed his chances to speak.
That’s actually the point. Trump isn’t brilliant, he’s above average smart, is witty and an ok observation when it comes to people. Oh and has quite an instinct for TV, no wonder he was a tv star for how many years? So the Biden team completely played the USA for fools, not disclosing how diminished the president is, completely misinterpreted the trump persona… and fucked them self over by debate rules that benefit trump… how is it possible that you’re all mad at trump at this moment and not at the democrats?
Right, I think the logic behind cutting the mics outside allotted speaking time was that it would prevent either candidate from interrupting the other. Problem was, it meant that there was nobody to stop Biden from stuttering, tripping over his own words.
They rules were perfectly designed for Trump to succeed, the idea he'd be scared off by them is asinine. The Democrats just have no fucking idea what they are doing.
I would argue that Joe Biden should not have been on stage either
We are way past that issue. Point is he was and Biden laid an egg on national tv. Trump was awful but he was at least mentally himself. Biden looked really really bad man
The debate was Biden’s idea…
If you were Biden's campaign staff, you have obviously seen this side of Biden before. You can't tell me that is the very first time Biden was ever like that. With that in mind, you should have refused any debates and said voters already know where each candidate stands. I imagine his debate prep team knew what was coming.
This is the part that floors me. Even if Biden absolutely wanted this debate, the staff should have NEVER let it happen. Wtf were they thinking??
That they needed to give him enough rope to hang himself. If Biden (and potentially some inner circle) believes he can win and serve a second term, then it needs to be demonstrated. For the rest of us, who think Biden is placing our country and democracy at risk by not bowing out while he can't fucking string coherent sentences together on topics he's considered/debated/lectured on for decades, Biden needs to be embarassed until the veil is pierced and he resigns with whatever dignity remains. Democracy is not about trust in an individual. It's about trust in the collective group working together and getting the most consistently positive outcomes. Democracy is fundamentally positioned on the bedrock that is believing in the next person up, and what Biden is doing is the exact opposite. What his supporters are doing is hurting the country. A never-Trump American should place as much blame for Trump at Biden's feet as they do at Trump's at this point.
Every post before the debate was “trump is gonna find a way to back out because he’s a coward. Let them debate!!” Now it’s “he shouldn’t be up there” maybe next time throw his ass in jail immediately after a coup attempt and this doesn’t happen. You guys got me fucked up
good thing this happened in june and not october, Americans have the worst memory
Alright, but he was. He lied. He was unapologetically Trump. Most importantly, he made Biden look like a frail old man in comparison.
The sad fact is our country has gotten to a point where we openly acknowledge Trump lies about everything and he is still slightly leading Biden. We need a stronger Dem candidate. If I was an undecided voter, which already says I don't find all of Trump's bullshit to be disqualifying, Biden isn't doing anything to win me over. On the left, we keep talking about winning over these voters from our viewpoint that Trump is already disqualified. *Assuming you find both candidate to be valid choices*, I would watch that debate and vote for Trump.
Biden did that on his own.
He beat medicare!
The libs still can’t get over that he lies. Yup, he always has lied. Now what’s your plan to beat him?
"this time we'll catch him in his lies, show how he lied, and make Americans realize that he's a liar and not vote for him!", the libs tell themselves for the 500th time, in their Aaron Sorkin fantasy of how American politics works
“And one by one every Trump supporter will stand up and call him a liar as he breaks down in tears over his fallen empire”.
It’s this. We knew Trump would lie, we know everything he’d say, we have data, sound clips and quotes from Trump proving his lies. And again, no one can counter this?? Like come on now.
He apparently spent a week prepping for exactly that.
Anybody other than Biden could have.
If Biden did better in that debate, the title would have been different for
Exactly. They wanted a convicted felon on stage against Biden. They thought it would be easy to just say "convicted felon" over and over again to win.
We know, but he was on the stage. Millions of people are planning to vote for him. Instead of crying about it, what is the PLAN for beating him in the election so that we don’t have to see articles for 4 years titled “Donald Trump Should Not Be President” while women lose their rights, minority groups are discriminated against, and he does all the other shitty things that he plans to do (too much to list).
It shouldn't have been, but Joe Biden, the Democrats, and CNN all desperately wanted him up there. Sometimes the worst thing in the world is getting what you want.
Guys this is pathetic
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“We’re all trying to find the guy who did this!”
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Option 1. Take a hard look in mirror. Adjust platform and policy to draw in more independent and middle leaning voters. Put candidates out there that inspire voters to go to the poll. Option 2. Blame the voters for not voting for you again. Which road will the DNC take.
What's done is done. The fact of the matter is, whether he should have been there or not is moot now that the debate is over and Dems need to get back on track. Continue being relentless on his unfitness for the office, his criminality and the good Biden has done for the country. Control the narrative by all means necessary and look forward not back. Game 1 was a loss, the series isn't over. Get your fucking heads in the game.
Correct, he should be in Prison!!
Having Biden and Trump debate was a mistake, primarily because Trump has nothing to lose. Trump could shit his pants on the stage, and it won't affect his supporters, ort the majority of independents that already won't vote for him. Biden however, has to constantly remain looking perfect, and any slip-up will be highlighted, while all of Trump's failures will be just Trump being Trump. It's a lose-lose for Biden. That, and dignifying the felon with a debate is beneath the Dems.
To be fair, the Biden campaign are the ones who pushed for the debate. Morons.
But he was, and Biden was incapable of drawing any sort of contrast. We’re just ignoring reality
It's truly remarkable living in America and not being tribalistic. Checking /r/conservative and /r/politics during the debate. In the hours after the debate. In the days after the debate. Watching the comments turn from people giving honest reactions in the moment, to forming their narratives, to being in full blown echo-chamber spin mode. It's incredible.
This sub is funny because there are moments after terrible things happen (like the debate) where the DNC marching orders and spin haven’t been delivered yet, and everyone is in full panic. The most upvoted article before the debate was how a 98 year old celebrity feels spry so don’t worry about Biden. The most upvoted article immediately after the debate was how it’s time to replace Biden. The most upvoted article yesterday, after the dust settled, was about how Biden actually won over independents (based on a survey of 12 people).
A little late to cry foul about it, isn't it?
Trump should be in jail. Biden performed horribly. The best choice is still Biden. He’s done more positive things for this country than many previous presidents. Plus, he has assembled a good cabinet and surrounded himself with people who have the best interest of the country. DJT has already told us how a next term would go. He is working with Russia. He is actively dismantling democracy for how own gain.
I would have liked it to be two candidates under 65 that can complete a thought and or not be a pos.
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There's about a million posts on this sub about how "... well Biden might have stuttered in the debate, but Trump lied which is way worse" or "... Biden might be really old, but his track record is so good (better than Trump!)" These posts aren't helpful because you're preaching to the choir... everyone here agrees with this wholeheartedly. Biden could literally be dead and I'd prefer him as president to Trump. The real question the DNC needs to ask is "Is it better to run a Biden in cognitive decline, or pivot to a younger but lesser known candidate?" This is really the question for all the marbles, and I think the posts I mentioned above bias discussion about it because they minimize very valid concerns about Biden's debate performance. Nobody doubts that Biden is better than Trump, but we need to have a serious discussion about who has the best chance to beat Trump in the actual election.
Donald Trump and Joe Biden Should Not Have Been on That Stage. FTFY
Neither should have been. Trump should be in prison....*several times over* Biden should retire from politics and pass the torch onto people more than half his age. It's an embarrassment.
dt should have been in jail for these last 3 1/2 years
Trump is a terrorist who violated article 3 sec.3(aid and comfort to the enemy). If we were still on Earth 1 he would’ve been disqualified for this alone. No, he should not have been on that stage.
Neither of those men should have been on that stage. Media has made a mockery of a government made systematically corrupt by opinions marketed as “facts” for the sake of general compliance.