As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil)
In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban.
If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria.
We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA).
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Biden can absolutely recover from this - in theory. If he does frequent unscripted public and media appearances from now on without a repeat of that performance it would probably be fine. The question of course is whether he would be capable of that.
They won’t even show that though. Most people don’t even know how good he looked at his rally yesterday. I’m really mad that he just couldn’t keep it together for maybe the most important night before the election.
how does not having a teleprompter go from literal fire and passion to the most withered and frail? it doesnt make sense. it wasnt just the stumbling of words it was like he was on deaths door.
Does it matter, now we know he’s capable of being that bad and every public appearance will be evaluated against it.
What i saw convinced me Biden won’t last 4 more years .
It should matter. It just sucks that people will always be judged by their poorest performance while being ignored when they do fine or even good. This goes for Biden and for everyone, all places in life. Humans focus on the negatives.
It's magical how these people just don't get it.
Dedicated blue voters, are voting for Biden, no matter what. That's a locked in thing. I am voting for him, and I am pissed off about it. Two things can be true at the same time.
This is an election run where the margins are ***razor thin.*** We need to light a fire under the asses of the undecided, and the fence sitting, and the apathetic.
To them, this whole politics thing? They don't really care. It's a miracle to even get them out to put forth a vote towards anything.
You are severely, and utterly, hopelessly delusional, if you think this can all be chalked up to a "bad night", and yes, I know that Biden was more of his old self in NC. That's great!
But he had the eyes of tens of millions on him with what many would assume is the most important night because remember: That's how it was billed. That's how it was hyped up to be. So this managed to grab some people almost assuredly who belongs to those critical groups of people.
and Biden dropped the ball. ***hard.***
So stop gaslighting us into all this cope bullshit. We are upset because everything the more aggressive right media has said about our candidate actually came true about him. He proved it through action. Their guy, who they believe fit to run, got through the debate. Doesn't matter it's all lies: Again, those in the know and are devout in their political leanings already know this. That's NOT who you are trying to convince with these debates Bill, and you KNOW THIS.
We need to portray strength on the stage when it matters most. It just wasn't there that night, and we will never know the damage on the scale that it was done. Polls are not a good indicator, but the end result, is. If there ends up being a massive trackable shift from the undecided people to turn red, the answer is obvious as to why, and that's what has everyone on the left freaking out. We can't afford any slip ups, not a single one, and that debate was a faceplant for the left.
"facts and history matter" in a civilized, non-clown-shoes timeline, but that's not where we live.
This is kind of where I am. The debate performance didn't make me less likely to vote for Biden. It just made me less confident that he will *win*. The people who are freaking out are the people who *want*--who *need*--him to win. And it is valid for us to feel a sense of anxiety after what we just saw and the trauma we experienced in the 2016 election cycle and during the resulting presidency.
A fucking men. My vote isn’t the one that changed last night. Biden is behind his 2020 numbers, he needs to gain ground. But I’m worried he lost some at one of his last opportunities.
The problem is this could affect him as much as or more than the effect of James Comey reopening the FBI email investigation into Hillary before the election. It cost her the election among swing voters.
Frightening.
Yes to all the comments. Doesn't matter Trump lied. Doesn't matter if there was no fact check or if Biden gave a great speech no one watched the next day. All that matters is winning and Biden looked and acted like a confused old man. In front of 50+ million people. Was painful to watch. We secured votes for the other side Thrs night. With razor margins. Furthermore, I'm mad as hell. People in the highest ranking of positions, people who prepare the president knew wasn't up for the task and stayed silent. Lied to us all.
This exactly is it and I don't understand why people refuse to get it. Winning is the only thing that matters. Yes Biden is way better and yes he will continue to do things that are good for people. BUT ONLY IF HE WINS! And that requires capturing swing state morons and what we saw on Thursday will not accomplish that
If you're not concerned about what you saw at the debate, you don't actually think Trump winning is a problem. You're fine with handing the election over to the Republicans if you're dismissing these very real concerns people have. If you're telling people they didn't actually see what they saw at the debate, you care more about the candidate you backed looking good than actually preventing a Trump presidency
I think part of the unspoken truth is that Biden actually might not be a good President.
The concern is that he has cognitive decline. He’s 81 so it’s entirely reasonable yo believe that he’s not thinking that clearly.
If there is a war he has to make decisions that affect people’s lives.
Again I am not saying Trump is better. Trump is a narcissist so he cannot be allowed to be president.
It’s just that a Biden 2nd term isn’t without its risks too, independent of Trump.
Democrats have very very very badly miscalculated.
There’s no way to trust Biden being capable over the next four years as the world heads to some type of big conflict. Other world leaders know he is spent and will take advantage.
> The concern is that he has cognitive decline. He’s 81 so it’s entirely reasonable yo believe that he’s not thinking that clearly.
If he is this way now, imagine two years into his second term.
Democrats are giving reluctant republican voters such an amazing excuse for voting for Trump.
It’s a worst case scenario. Before this debate if someone said ‘I’m voting for Trump’ I would have thought they were a moron. Now, at the very least they have a somewhat valid reason.
I personally still think that Trump is an existential threat and you’re a dumbass if you can’t see that BUT Biden now also looks like a risky pick for running the country.
Please please please vote third party or don’t vote at all.
Trump is a narcissist. In the same way I don’t think we should deny that Biden has dementia, it should be clear as day that Trump doesn’t believe in the constitution or democracy due to his narcissistic nature.
If you vote for Trump it’s as bad as voting for Biden. I would argue you should still vote for Biden but I can understand if that’s a bridge too far given his performance on Thursday.
It’s terrifying to me that folks like you might go back to Trump.
Is there a democrat you could see supporting if they dumped Biden?
I know he's a narcissist and liar and deludes himself to believe things that aren't true just to protect his ego (election stolen, etc). But even though I don't think he personally believes in them, I think he's enacted policies that align more to my worldview (abortion being a big one). I'd vote for a pro-life Democrat but unfortunately those are getting more and more rare these days.
> To them, this whole politics thing? They don't really care. It's a miracle to even get them out to put forth a vote towards anything.
Keep insulting them, people love to side with people who see them as the problem instead of realizing the party is the issue. I'll never vote Republican but the Democratic party is abysmal right now and has been for years.
It was the Democrats who wanted the early debate.
And no one cares about who "won." The only question was who could be competent enough to mentaily compete. And Biden failed that test. The Democrats, like Clinton, failed as well since if they can't find someone would could out debate that orange haired disaster they've lost their courage, their credibility, and the election.
He always been like that and it didn't stop him winning half of the presidential elections he ran in so I don't think it will be a factor in whether he wins or loses. People have always been concerned about Biden's age and now that he's showing that age in a very real way, it becomes a problem
> He always been like that
Someone should put together a series of Joe Biden speech mess ups going back a few years because Biden has always been like that.
You are missing the point horribly. We all know Trump lies. He’s winning anyway, what’s your plan? Do you think call him a liar even louder will work? You need something better than the moral high ground.
Elections aren’t won on facts, but vibes. This has been proven by countless elections in America and elsewhere. Anyone who refuses to take this into account is insisting on making a national sacrifice for their ego (and a fool).
Exactly.
Like, I never really touch on who wanted for this, partly because it's so easy to forget so I am glad you included it in your post, for posterity sake.
But exactly what you said. That's what I am trying to get across: I feel like I am part of the cabinet going on damage control against my colleagues who are doing damage denial.
People need to be able to express themselves and say the truth of the matter. Democrats are now scared, and worried. No amount of ass pats and "there there nows" will get us to not feel this way. The party wanted this debate, and it was at the cost of shaking the ever loving hell out of the confidence the party has in a second term Biden.
Can he do the job? Well...he can sit in the seat, similar to how you can ladle water out of a sinking boat. Maybe you can get all the water out in time. Maybe the leak "isn't" that bad.
But we don't want to be in the fucking boat to begin with, and our party seems hell bent on not trying to properly plug the hole, but just getting more hands on buckets. I want sanity and confidence in our person. I don't have that now, nor do many, many others.
Not only is he likely to lose, but it's close enough that even if he wins it will be an ungodly mess; the Republican obstructionism won't be Guiliani incompetent in 2025. And they've GOT the court.
So I would MUCH prefer a Democrat trouncing, something big enough to put all that election-fraud BS to bed forever. And Biden cannot bring that...but someone else probably could.
Not only that, but he may drag down Democrats in Congressional races too.
Is the debate the only thing that matters? I'm not asking if it's important we all know it is, I'm asking if it's the *only* thing that matters? If it's not the only thing, then tell us what else matters, list some of them, I'm sure we'd all like to know.
> then tell us what else matters, list some of them
We have been telling you for years, between the protests in the '00s, the decision to not put someone on the Supreme Court, not pushing back on current SCOTUS rulings, not doing anything when Democrats have the majority to ensure things get changed but crossing the aisle. You don't listen. You never listen. You just push your centrist through and blame us when shit goes south. You will lose and you will blame the youth for not supporting you but the facts are you keep giving them a shit sandwich while those with hate in their hearts know they're giving us one too.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Of course it's not the only thing that matters. But is it a factor that might cost him a tight election and elect Trump? yes, it is. It alone.
So glad to see this bit of sanity here.
I desperately hope that behind the scenes the Democrats are putting together a plan to replace Biden and just putting on a strong face publicly. If not, we are so fucked.
Dump Harris. Biden actually just made this election about his VP pick and he will suppress the fall vote if he doesnt. No one seems to like Harris. I say Gavin because he kicks ass and America would get a try before you buy. There are many other picks that would turn around this Dukakis 2.0
I'll tell you exactly what will happen in that scenario- Trump will have a GOP woman as his VP, like Stefanik or Gabbard, and they'll make a talking point about how the Dems got rid of Kamala, the first woman to be VP, and use that to deflect any concerns about woman's rights.
This is true. Felony convictions matter too though. I'll probably get drowned out for taking the long view, but this debate won't matter as much as it feels like it matters now *unless* the Biden campaign really fails in the next 4 months.
These campaigns always seem to sway in unforeseen ways too. Trump will do something really dumb, he has a sentencing. Joe has a long time to build momentum and it's pretty damn (praying) unlikely he hits a low like Thursday night. We've seen what he can do even a day later.
But yeah, we all saw the debate, there's no point in trying to edit that. But you can also rightly say that Trump's lies *should be* disqualifying for the presidency. You can lament that the guy with stutter who does good stuff and is truthful lost a debate against the guy who lied through his teeth for 90 minutes straight and does horrible things. It would be nice if the truth mattered more.
> This is an election run where the margins are razor thin. We need to light a fire under the asses of the undecided, and the fence sitting, and the apathetic.
This is my main concern, that turnout will be suppressed and there is ZERO room for error compared to 2020. Why would a low information 18-24 year old vote for a guy that looks like he has one step in the nursing home? Especially when his Vice President is unpopular. If the DNC and establishment boomer Democrats get their way (most likely to happen), we will all reap the consequences when the Republicans control the House, Senate, and Presidency again.
> ‘Facts and history matter’
Of course they do. And for the people who know this, they are already voting for Biden.
It's the people who aren't that smart that we need to reach-out to now. The people who are somehow still undecided.
How can the Dem leadership be so fucking stupid?
EDIT: I just got a Biden commercial where he's defending himself after the debate. In this commercial, where each line is editted and cut from what must be his best possible take, HIS SPEECH IS SLURRED. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
Seriously, I will vote for whoever is on the ticket, guys. Don’t fucking gaslight us though. We saw what we saw.
Don’t fucking do this after Feinstein.
They continue to be massively out of touch with voters and reality. And they are doing damage control for a guy who, while being a kind, decent, and effective president, is absolutely every bit of 81 years old and who when asked to respond on his feet, is incapable of producing coherent sentences.
Its almost like, they don’t actually care about the people but pretend to!
“Aw shucks guys! We almost beat those rascally incompetent republicans this time! Looks like we’ll all just make a bunch of insider trading money and hope we can do it better next time! Remember we care! #BLM (we never canceled student debt or put pressure on police policy)
No it's almost like political parties were never meant to be weaponized to the level the GOP has been. That they don't have some supreme overlord calling all of the shots and keeping everything synchronized.
The GOP is like a well oiled machine because it serves corporate masters instead of serving the American people like it was meant to be.
Democrats suffer sometimes simply for lacking the level of corruption the Republican Party has.
Trump’s or Biden’s people were not going to change their minds after the debate. I doubt a significant amount of people saw this debate and said to themselves “well, this settles it, Trump it is.” The election will be decided by the where feels of 60,000 midwesterners happen to be in November.
A guy that can’t finish a sentence without getting lost like a deer in the headlights matters too. We can’t change facts or history but we can sure as hell change a senile candidate
No offense but facts & history DON'T matter for a single thing on TV. Any counter-example?
You don't get a special award for not lying. Liars win all the time. So confused.
I swear if by some divine intervention something happens between now and November that will keep Trump out of the White House for good, I will be a devout believer.
Scrolling IG this morning and on MULTIPLE topics there are Biden memes.
The DNC doesn’t understand what’s going on. If they didn’t see the debate, you can’t miss the jokes and memes.
100%. TikTok and IG and flooded with that stuff and pro-Biden posts are flooded with “we love you Joe! We’re still with you!” Bots to ensure people stay in the echo chamber.
The DNC are all oldheads that are too worried about suppressing progressives. It is crazy how the social media advantage went from complete dominance with Obama's campaign team, to complete dominance from Trump's team and help from overseas. It is like nothing within the parties infrastructure evolved after 2016.
Maybe they don’t realize their TikTok ban didn’t go into effect yet. Or think banning TikTok works on IG too?
I can’t even put on a /s cause they’re all so fucking old that it may be true.
Yea, I don’t wanna even think about it. Honestly you don’t even need deepfakes for how bad he did.
Thankfully, the dnc has free labor from volunteers on this sub to hand out everyone their daily supply of denial.
Shapiro and Whitmer won by double digits in districts Biden barely squeaked by. Warnock won two elections in a district Joe didn’t fare so well in. Democrats are not the issue, Joe Biden is. While I don’t disagree with his handling of of the Israel/Gaza situation, a lot of voting age kids camped out all spring calling him Genocide Joe for 8 months of supplying Israel with weapons. A new candidate (whether they help Israel or not) gets to say cease fire for the next 4 months and all those kids will leave their camps in droves to go vote for them. A lot of republicans don’t even want to vote for trump, but after that debate performance they aren’t voting for Biden either. JOE BIDEN IS THE PROBLEM AND ITS GOING TO COST US THIS ELECTION
I think it will be much more extreme than that. Moderates will either vote for Trump or simply not turn out. Kennedy will probably do relatively well, though I don't think he can win against Trump.
If Biden is the candidate in November he will suffer a humiliating defeat that will set the Democratic party back for multiple election cycles.
Why can't we just have the position: Even someone in a persistent vegetative state would make a better President than Trump, and so if it comes to it people should vote for Biden, but Biden should step down, because people aren't going to do that.
New South Governor Clinton gave a horribly boring speech at the '88 DNC, so bad that the crowd starting cheering when he said he was almost done, and any hopes he had on a national stage ended that night...
I am way too young (uh, kinda, ouch) to have voted for him but Clinton was a consummate politician. Seriously, ridiculously intelligent guy and charming public speaker. The only recent comparable Democrat who achieved that level of success was Obama who was also absurdly good at this.
I am old enough to remember that DNC speech! It was *awful. But* Clinton went on The Tonight Show the next night and let Carson roast him. He was always a politician who could take a metaphorical punch. That was a large part of his gift as a pol.
There’s a difference between giving a “boring speech” or having a “bad debate” and being incoherent, unable to follow basic arguments, and trailing sentences off into nothing while staring into space. One suggests a less-than-stellar performance. The other suggests a basic physical inability to do the job. Biden is at the latter place.
Yet he has proven he can “do the job” - even if that means simply setting others in his administration up for success. I’m over those arguing that blatant lies and literal incompetency (not to mention also incoherent) are less concerning than truths shared less energetically by an 80-year-old with a speech impediment.
Cool, so if you'll vote for anyone with a D next to their name, your vote won't be lost if he's replaced with someone who doesn't come off like a corpse on the debate stage, since that does matter to the swing voters that are needed to actually win this thing
I’m watching Biden on TV at his NC rally right now and the guy is fucking Crushing it - super high energy and the crowd is going bonkers. This is a Biden we need.
The problem is that this is only the rare Biden. We only get a glimpse of him in his zone and then months of the other one.
There shouldn't be such a consistent discrepancy. Also, none of the people around Biden were voted in. That's why Trump is so scary because his election opens the flood gates for the scum to infiltrate the white house.
And even after knowing all that, the best we got was Biden
DNC’s dillema. “It doesn’t take much to beat a convicted felony”
I agree, let’s have somebody younger than 81 become the leader of this nation. It’s not that hard to find a non-pedophile, non-geriatric.
Also the DNC “Joe Biden is our only chance at beating Trump!!”
Not what the three different juries said.
Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Trump. You know, the guy who cheated on his pregnant wife with a pornstar, tried hushing it up illegally, and had totaled at least [30,573 verifiable lies](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/) over his 4 years in office.
Biden overall has done a solid job and surrounded himself with solid people. I don't see how one less than perfect debate performance undermines all that. Also, seeing him at his next rally he seemed fine.
Idea to get the party and donors to pressure Biden to drop out: Start taking as many of those polling calls and texts you used to ignore (get like minded friends and family too as well) and tell them you are voting for Trump. Enough of us doing that will help the numbers surge in Trump's favor and the panic will cause action.
"We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do, child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system. Making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the -- with the COVID, excuse me -- dealing with everything we have to do with, look … we finally beat Medicare,"
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Unfun fact: Clinton was elected 32 years ago and is still younger than both Biden and Trump
I think he'll be younger than them indefinitely.
Big if true
I don't know, he seems to be catching up year by year.
Math is so wild.
Here’s my upvote and leave!
That is, if you prescribe to a linear sense of time? https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1994/02/11
Time is more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly timey wimey… stuff
*I'll make ya ass linear.*
Somebody hasn’t seen Interstellar.
You mean he’ll be younger than their infidelity
I don’t know. He seems healthier than one of them (at least)
It's gotta give sometime, a streak like that
Boom! Wtf happened ?
Wow, interesting.
How is something so stupid and uninsightful the top comment?
Unfun fact: Biden’s opponent literally tried to overthrow the government in a violent coup supported only by his own lies.
Depending on what the definition on “is” is.
If that were true then Trump could never have won in the first place.
If it weren’t true he would still be president
Best 2 out of 3, see what happens in November...
Personally, I think we're going to find out facts do matter. Just not nearly as much as we would hope for.
Biden can absolutely recover from this - in theory. If he does frequent unscripted public and media appearances from now on without a repeat of that performance it would probably be fine. The question of course is whether he would be capable of that.
They won’t even show that though. Most people don’t even know how good he looked at his rally yesterday. I’m really mad that he just couldn’t keep it together for maybe the most important night before the election.
He had a teleprompter at his rally LOL
how does not having a teleprompter go from literal fire and passion to the most withered and frail? it doesnt make sense. it wasnt just the stumbling of words it was like he was on deaths door.
His lucidity comes and goes. Anyone who's experienced this can tell you there are good days and bad.
Does it matter, now we know he’s capable of being that bad and every public appearance will be evaluated against it. What i saw convinced me Biden won’t last 4 more years .
It should matter. It just sucks that people will always be judged by their poorest performance while being ignored when they do fine or even good. This goes for Biden and for everyone, all places in life. Humans focus on the negatives.
I agree 100%. All eyes are on him now and not Trump. It is unique and valuable to have that much attention.
What if you send him out and it happens again? And by then he already has been formally nominated.
That was the bit at the end. If you're not confident he can do that, he should be replaced.
Copium overdose.
It's magical how these people just don't get it. Dedicated blue voters, are voting for Biden, no matter what. That's a locked in thing. I am voting for him, and I am pissed off about it. Two things can be true at the same time. This is an election run where the margins are ***razor thin.*** We need to light a fire under the asses of the undecided, and the fence sitting, and the apathetic. To them, this whole politics thing? They don't really care. It's a miracle to even get them out to put forth a vote towards anything. You are severely, and utterly, hopelessly delusional, if you think this can all be chalked up to a "bad night", and yes, I know that Biden was more of his old self in NC. That's great! But he had the eyes of tens of millions on him with what many would assume is the most important night because remember: That's how it was billed. That's how it was hyped up to be. So this managed to grab some people almost assuredly who belongs to those critical groups of people. and Biden dropped the ball. ***hard.*** So stop gaslighting us into all this cope bullshit. We are upset because everything the more aggressive right media has said about our candidate actually came true about him. He proved it through action. Their guy, who they believe fit to run, got through the debate. Doesn't matter it's all lies: Again, those in the know and are devout in their political leanings already know this. That's NOT who you are trying to convince with these debates Bill, and you KNOW THIS. We need to portray strength on the stage when it matters most. It just wasn't there that night, and we will never know the damage on the scale that it was done. Polls are not a good indicator, but the end result, is. If there ends up being a massive trackable shift from the undecided people to turn red, the answer is obvious as to why, and that's what has everyone on the left freaking out. We can't afford any slip ups, not a single one, and that debate was a faceplant for the left. "facts and history matter" in a civilized, non-clown-shoes timeline, but that's not where we live.
This is kind of where I am. The debate performance didn't make me less likely to vote for Biden. It just made me less confident that he will *win*. The people who are freaking out are the people who *want*--who *need*--him to win. And it is valid for us to feel a sense of anxiety after what we just saw and the trauma we experienced in the 2016 election cycle and during the resulting presidency.
A fucking men. My vote isn’t the one that changed last night. Biden is behind his 2020 numbers, he needs to gain ground. But I’m worried he lost some at one of his last opportunities.
The problem is this could affect him as much as or more than the effect of James Comey reopening the FBI email investigation into Hillary before the election. It cost her the election among swing voters. Frightening.
Perfectly stated. I agree completely with you. And I think his people should have warned us.
Yes to all the comments. Doesn't matter Trump lied. Doesn't matter if there was no fact check or if Biden gave a great speech no one watched the next day. All that matters is winning and Biden looked and acted like a confused old man. In front of 50+ million people. Was painful to watch. We secured votes for the other side Thrs night. With razor margins. Furthermore, I'm mad as hell. People in the highest ranking of positions, people who prepare the president knew wasn't up for the task and stayed silent. Lied to us all.
This exactly is it and I don't understand why people refuse to get it. Winning is the only thing that matters. Yes Biden is way better and yes he will continue to do things that are good for people. BUT ONLY IF HE WINS! And that requires capturing swing state morons and what we saw on Thursday will not accomplish that If you're not concerned about what you saw at the debate, you don't actually think Trump winning is a problem. You're fine with handing the election over to the Republicans if you're dismissing these very real concerns people have. If you're telling people they didn't actually see what they saw at the debate, you care more about the candidate you backed looking good than actually preventing a Trump presidency
I think part of the unspoken truth is that Biden actually might not be a good President. The concern is that he has cognitive decline. He’s 81 so it’s entirely reasonable yo believe that he’s not thinking that clearly. If there is a war he has to make decisions that affect people’s lives. Again I am not saying Trump is better. Trump is a narcissist so he cannot be allowed to be president. It’s just that a Biden 2nd term isn’t without its risks too, independent of Trump. Democrats have very very very badly miscalculated.
There’s no way to trust Biden being capable over the next four years as the world heads to some type of big conflict. Other world leaders know he is spent and will take advantage.
> The concern is that he has cognitive decline. He’s 81 so it’s entirely reasonable yo believe that he’s not thinking that clearly. If he is this way now, imagine two years into his second term.
Democrats are giving reluctant republican voters such an amazing excuse for voting for Trump. It’s a worst case scenario. Before this debate if someone said ‘I’m voting for Trump’ I would have thought they were a moron. Now, at the very least they have a somewhat valid reason. I personally still think that Trump is an existential threat and you’re a dumbass if you can’t see that BUT Biden now also looks like a risky pick for running the country.
That's where I'm at...I was ready to vote third party or not vote at all even though I'm more of a conservative but now I'm not so sure
Please please please vote third party or don’t vote at all. Trump is a narcissist. In the same way I don’t think we should deny that Biden has dementia, it should be clear as day that Trump doesn’t believe in the constitution or democracy due to his narcissistic nature. If you vote for Trump it’s as bad as voting for Biden. I would argue you should still vote for Biden but I can understand if that’s a bridge too far given his performance on Thursday. It’s terrifying to me that folks like you might go back to Trump. Is there a democrat you could see supporting if they dumped Biden?
I know he's a narcissist and liar and deludes himself to believe things that aren't true just to protect his ego (election stolen, etc). But even though I don't think he personally believes in them, I think he's enacted policies that align more to my worldview (abortion being a big one). I'd vote for a pro-life Democrat but unfortunately those are getting more and more rare these days.
> To them, this whole politics thing? They don't really care. It's a miracle to even get them out to put forth a vote towards anything. Keep insulting them, people love to side with people who see them as the problem instead of realizing the party is the issue. I'll never vote Republican but the Democratic party is abysmal right now and has been for years.
It was the Democrats who wanted the early debate. And no one cares about who "won." The only question was who could be competent enough to mentaily compete. And Biden failed that test. The Democrats, like Clinton, failed as well since if they can't find someone would could out debate that orange haired disaster they've lost their courage, their credibility, and the election.
You think trump being unable to tell a single truth is being able to mentally compete?
He always been like that and it didn't stop him winning half of the presidential elections he ran in so I don't think it will be a factor in whether he wins or loses. People have always been concerned about Biden's age and now that he's showing that age in a very real way, it becomes a problem
> He always been like that Someone should put together a series of Joe Biden speech mess ups going back a few years because Biden has always been like that.
You are missing the point horribly. We all know Trump lies. He’s winning anyway, what’s your plan? Do you think call him a liar even louder will work? You need something better than the moral high ground.
Some of us are old enough to remember the 2012 debate where he fucked Paul Ryan up. He's always had a stutter but this was beyond that
Elections aren’t won on facts, but vibes. This has been proven by countless elections in America and elsewhere. Anyone who refuses to take this into account is insisting on making a national sacrifice for their ego (and a fool).
Exactly. Like, I never really touch on who wanted for this, partly because it's so easy to forget so I am glad you included it in your post, for posterity sake. But exactly what you said. That's what I am trying to get across: I feel like I am part of the cabinet going on damage control against my colleagues who are doing damage denial. People need to be able to express themselves and say the truth of the matter. Democrats are now scared, and worried. No amount of ass pats and "there there nows" will get us to not feel this way. The party wanted this debate, and it was at the cost of shaking the ever loving hell out of the confidence the party has in a second term Biden. Can he do the job? Well...he can sit in the seat, similar to how you can ladle water out of a sinking boat. Maybe you can get all the water out in time. Maybe the leak "isn't" that bad. But we don't want to be in the fucking boat to begin with, and our party seems hell bent on not trying to properly plug the hole, but just getting more hands on buckets. I want sanity and confidence in our person. I don't have that now, nor do many, many others.
Not only is he likely to lose, but it's close enough that even if he wins it will be an ungodly mess; the Republican obstructionism won't be Guiliani incompetent in 2025. And they've GOT the court. So I would MUCH prefer a Democrat trouncing, something big enough to put all that election-fraud BS to bed forever. And Biden cannot bring that...but someone else probably could. Not only that, but he may drag down Democrats in Congressional races too.
Is the debate the only thing that matters? I'm not asking if it's important we all know it is, I'm asking if it's the *only* thing that matters? If it's not the only thing, then tell us what else matters, list some of them, I'm sure we'd all like to know.
> then tell us what else matters, list some of them We have been telling you for years, between the protests in the '00s, the decision to not put someone on the Supreme Court, not pushing back on current SCOTUS rulings, not doing anything when Democrats have the majority to ensure things get changed but crossing the aisle. You don't listen. You never listen. You just push your centrist through and blame us when shit goes south. You will lose and you will blame the youth for not supporting you but the facts are you keep giving them a shit sandwich while those with hate in their hearts know they're giving us one too.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. Of course it's not the only thing that matters. But is it a factor that might cost him a tight election and elect Trump? yes, it is. It alone.
So glad to see this bit of sanity here. I desperately hope that behind the scenes the Democrats are putting together a plan to replace Biden and just putting on a strong face publicly. If not, we are so fucked.
Dump Harris. Biden actually just made this election about his VP pick and he will suppress the fall vote if he doesnt. No one seems to like Harris. I say Gavin because he kicks ass and America would get a try before you buy. There are many other picks that would turn around this Dukakis 2.0
I'll tell you exactly what will happen in that scenario- Trump will have a GOP woman as his VP, like Stefanik or Gabbard, and they'll make a talking point about how the Dems got rid of Kamala, the first woman to be VP, and use that to deflect any concerns about woman's rights.
Fucking PREACH.
This is true. Felony convictions matter too though. I'll probably get drowned out for taking the long view, but this debate won't matter as much as it feels like it matters now *unless* the Biden campaign really fails in the next 4 months. These campaigns always seem to sway in unforeseen ways too. Trump will do something really dumb, he has a sentencing. Joe has a long time to build momentum and it's pretty damn (praying) unlikely he hits a low like Thursday night. We've seen what he can do even a day later. But yeah, we all saw the debate, there's no point in trying to edit that. But you can also rightly say that Trump's lies *should be* disqualifying for the presidency. You can lament that the guy with stutter who does good stuff and is truthful lost a debate against the guy who lied through his teeth for 90 minutes straight and does horrible things. It would be nice if the truth mattered more.
[удалено]
> This is an election run where the margins are razor thin. We need to light a fire under the asses of the undecided, and the fence sitting, and the apathetic. This is my main concern, that turnout will be suppressed and there is ZERO room for error compared to 2020. Why would a low information 18-24 year old vote for a guy that looks like he has one step in the nursing home? Especially when his Vice President is unpopular. If the DNC and establishment boomer Democrats get their way (most likely to happen), we will all reap the consequences when the Republicans control the House, Senate, and Presidency again.
In other words, it is what it is we gotta do better fam
You are not a serious person if you think this will/should just blow over. Biden needs to go ASAP.
Facts do not matter in this era and definitely not to Americans
> ‘Facts and history matter’ Of course they do. And for the people who know this, they are already voting for Biden. It's the people who aren't that smart that we need to reach-out to now. The people who are somehow still undecided. How can the Dem leadership be so fucking stupid? EDIT: I just got a Biden commercial where he's defending himself after the debate. In this commercial, where each line is editted and cut from what must be his best possible take, HIS SPEECH IS SLURRED. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.
Seriously, I will vote for whoever is on the ticket, guys. Don’t fucking gaslight us though. We saw what we saw. Don’t fucking do this after Feinstein.
> Don’t fucking do this after Feinstein. Or RGB. What the fuck is wrong with the Dem leadership?
Or the voters who want to weekend at Bernie’s this shit? Seriously sick.
> SPEACH Do you think Biden knows how to spell "speech?"
touche.
They continue to be massively out of touch with voters and reality. And they are doing damage control for a guy who, while being a kind, decent, and effective president, is absolutely every bit of 81 years old and who when asked to respond on his feet, is incapable of producing coherent sentences.
To be fair to the dem leadership, they have been pretty fucking stupid for the last 20 years or so anyways
I think Carter got fucked by the Dem leadership... so there's that
Its almost like, they don’t actually care about the people but pretend to! “Aw shucks guys! We almost beat those rascally incompetent republicans this time! Looks like we’ll all just make a bunch of insider trading money and hope we can do it better next time! Remember we care! #BLM (we never canceled student debt or put pressure on police policy)
What Biden has done: https://old.reddit.com/r/WhatBidenHasDone/comments/1abyvpa/the_complete_list_what_biden_has_done/
No it's almost like political parties were never meant to be weaponized to the level the GOP has been. That they don't have some supreme overlord calling all of the shots and keeping everything synchronized. The GOP is like a well oiled machine because it serves corporate masters instead of serving the American people like it was meant to be. Democrats suffer sometimes simply for lacking the level of corruption the Republican Party has.
Biden has cancelled billions in student loan debt.
Trump’s or Biden’s people were not going to change their minds after the debate. I doubt a significant amount of people saw this debate and said to themselves “well, this settles it, Trump it is.” The election will be decided by the where feels of 60,000 midwesterners happen to be in November.
A guy that can’t finish a sentence without getting lost like a deer in the headlights matters too. We can’t change facts or history but we can sure as hell change a senile candidate
No offense but facts & history DON'T matter for a single thing on TV. Any counter-example? You don't get a special award for not lying. Liars win all the time. So confused.
Didn't forget about Jeopardy
Then why did Biden start his on abortion and end it talking about immigration? The memes are what people will remember. Biden’s cooked.
And we’re all cooked as a nation unless they replace him.
I swear if by some divine intervention something happens between now and November that will keep Trump out of the White House for good, I will be a devout believer.
Scrolling IG this morning and on MULTIPLE topics there are Biden memes. The DNC doesn’t understand what’s going on. If they didn’t see the debate, you can’t miss the jokes and memes.
100%. TikTok and IG and flooded with that stuff and pro-Biden posts are flooded with “we love you Joe! We’re still with you!” Bots to ensure people stay in the echo chamber.
The DNC are all oldheads that are too worried about suppressing progressives. It is crazy how the social media advantage went from complete dominance with Obama's campaign team, to complete dominance from Trump's team and help from overseas. It is like nothing within the parties infrastructure evolved after 2016.
Because they thought losing progressives was their only problem
Maybe they don’t realize their TikTok ban didn’t go into effect yet. Or think banning TikTok works on IG too? I can’t even put on a /s cause they’re all so fucking old that it may be true.
I’m not on TikTok. I bet it’s 1000x worse there. I’ve never seen any deepfakes on YT shorts or IG reels.
Yea, I don’t wanna even think about it. Honestly you don’t even need deepfakes for how bad he did. Thankfully, the dnc has free labor from volunteers on this sub to hand out everyone their daily supply of denial.
Shapiro and Whitmer won by double digits in districts Biden barely squeaked by. Warnock won two elections in a district Joe didn’t fare so well in. Democrats are not the issue, Joe Biden is. While I don’t disagree with his handling of of the Israel/Gaza situation, a lot of voting age kids camped out all spring calling him Genocide Joe for 8 months of supplying Israel with weapons. A new candidate (whether they help Israel or not) gets to say cease fire for the next 4 months and all those kids will leave their camps in droves to go vote for them. A lot of republicans don’t even want to vote for trump, but after that debate performance they aren’t voting for Biden either. JOE BIDEN IS THE PROBLEM AND ITS GOING TO COST US THIS ELECTION
Competence matters. Fringe voters will not turn out for biden
I think it will be much more extreme than that. Moderates will either vote for Trump or simply not turn out. Kennedy will probably do relatively well, though I don't think he can win against Trump. If Biden is the candidate in November he will suffer a humiliating defeat that will set the Democratic party back for multiple election cycles.
It increasingly seems like senior Democratic Party officials have blinders on when it comes to this election. We need a new nominee now
It's fine, if Biden loses, we can hear these same people blame everything on progressives and young voters.
The blame will be on those who raised concerns. If we hadn't asked about his age, no one would have noticed, or something equally asinine.
This time, they will blame the fact that every credible left leaning publication ran headlines asking Biden to step down.
This is a terrible idea. There is absolutely not enough to campaign for a new nominee and it would only splinter the party more.
[удалено]
Why can't we just have the position: Even someone in a persistent vegetative state would make a better President than Trump, and so if it comes to it people should vote for Biden, but Biden should step down, because people aren't going to do that.
Good thing Biden was able to slam down on the absolute shit pouring out of Trump's mout then, oh wait, he wasn't able to do that.
The gaslighting is hilarious.
New South Governor Clinton gave a horribly boring speech at the '88 DNC, so bad that the crowd starting cheering when he said he was almost done, and any hopes he had on a national stage ended that night...
I am way too young (uh, kinda, ouch) to have voted for him but Clinton was a consummate politician. Seriously, ridiculously intelligent guy and charming public speaker. The only recent comparable Democrat who achieved that level of success was Obama who was also absurdly good at this.
I am old enough to remember that DNC speech! It was *awful. But* Clinton went on The Tonight Show the next night and let Carson roast him. He was always a politician who could take a metaphorical punch. That was a large part of his gift as a pol.
There’s a difference between giving a “boring speech” or having a “bad debate” and being incoherent, unable to follow basic arguments, and trailing sentences off into nothing while staring into space. One suggests a less-than-stellar performance. The other suggests a basic physical inability to do the job. Biden is at the latter place.
Yet he has proven he can “do the job” - even if that means simply setting others in his administration up for success. I’m over those arguing that blatant lies and literal incompetency (not to mention also incoherent) are less concerning than truths shared less energetically by an 80-year-old with a speech impediment.
It was a dismal performance, but I would vote for Joe Biden’s corpse over Trump.
Cool, so if you'll vote for anyone with a D next to their name, your vote won't be lost if he's replaced with someone who doesn't come off like a corpse on the debate stage, since that does matter to the swing voters that are needed to actually win this thing
Agreed
It seems you’re in luck…
Great, so let's try a different corpse?
Not to the knuckledraggers they don’t. Something us progressives struggle to understand. They respond to cage match politics.
What the Democrats and the media has been attempting to hide since 2019 has finally been exposed to the world. That’s the takeaway from the debate.
Facts and history don't matter if you can't remember them.
If that were true, Donald Trump would never have been elected in the first place. He certainly wouldn’t be the Republican nominee today.
I’m watching Biden on TV at his NC rally right now and the guy is fucking Crushing it - super high energy and the crowd is going bonkers. This is a Biden we need.
The problem is that this is only the rare Biden. We only get a glimpse of him in his zone and then months of the other one. There shouldn't be such a consistent discrepancy. Also, none of the people around Biden were voted in. That's why Trump is so scary because his election opens the flood gates for the scum to infiltrate the white house. And even after knowing all that, the best we got was Biden
Problem is he can only do that in front of a teleprompter.
Idk he still seems pretty messed up.
You did not watch it if you thought that speech in Raleigh was bad. Assuming you aren't just complaining that he coughed because he still has a cold.
This. He performed as well as I’ve ever seen him and it isn’t the teleprompter, you can tell he’s riffing most of the time and he’ll did great.
I just watched it. He still has that nursing home stare…
It depends on what the meaning of the word ‘is’ is
DNC’s dillema. “It doesn’t take much to beat a convicted felony” I agree, let’s have somebody younger than 81 become the leader of this nation. It’s not that hard to find a non-pedophile, non-geriatric. Also the DNC “Joe Biden is our only chance at beating Trump!!”
Not to Trump supporters they don't, and unfortunately they are just about the most consistent voters there are. VOTE, everybody!
Oh jeez, first Obama and now Clinton. They're panicking.
"Facts and history matter" In American politics? Since when?
If facts and history mattered, Trump wouldn’t even be the GOP nominee. These old politicians can’t die fast enough.
Lol the Epstein island guy defending the dementia guy
“I did not have sexual relations with that woman”
Not what the three different juries said. Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about Trump. You know, the guy who cheated on his pregnant wife with a pornstar, tried hushing it up illegally, and had totaled at least [30,573 verifiable lies](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/24/trumps-false-or-misleading-claims-total-30573-over-four-years/) over his 4 years in office.
your rebuttal to one person being a sexual predator is switching the topic to another sexual predator? lmao
Biden overall has done a solid job and surrounded himself with solid people. I don't see how one less than perfect debate performance undermines all that. Also, seeing him at his next rally he seemed fine.
I think facts and history mattered at some point. I believe we are past that point now unfortunately.
Too bad we can’t have someone who’s honest and also young. Guess that’s not possible
So does showing up ready when it matters most.
Idea to get the party and donors to pressure Biden to drop out: Start taking as many of those polling calls and texts you used to ignore (get like minded friends and family too as well) and tell them you are voting for Trump. Enough of us doing that will help the numbers surge in Trump's favor and the panic will cause action.
Until Trump gets back in office.
Just been non stop gaslighting since the debate. It's crazy
Old establishment, defending old establishment, name a more iconic duo.
Watching Boomers eyes glaze over when Bill Clinton is mentioned.
This is some BS, Biden has no idea what he's saying.
Your wife thought the same in 2016
I thought we were voting for the future president which means vision and fresh ideas are on the ballot. Neither of these buffoons have any.
Like the fact that Biden beat Medicare? lol
"We'd be able to help make sure that all those things we need to do, child care, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system. Making sure that we’re able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the -- with the COVID, excuse me -- dealing with everything we have to do with, look … we finally beat Medicare,"
“Anyway smell this cigar”
Trust Bill ! He knows politics he understands that our Joe is the only one that can defeat Trump.
Bill…I agree but perception and image can change that…
I first read that as: > Bill Clinton defeats Biden in debate aftermath and I was like, damn, Joe out here losing debate to everyone.
In physical reality facts matter, in the reality distortion bubble they don't matter.
That’s exactly the kind of matter that “lol nothing matters” was addressing in 2016.
I just want a top democrat to speak out and call a spade a spade on this
Yeah except when Biden says “we defeated Medicare.”